Storing solar energy in the strangest places: Will Chueh at TEDxStanford
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2024
- Will Chueh is an assistant professor in the Materials Science and Engineering Department and a center fellow at the Precourt Institute for Energy at Stanford. Chueh received his master's degree (2010) in applied physics and doctorate in materials science from the California Institute of Technology. Prior to joining Stanford in 2012, he was a Distinguished Truman Fellow at Sandia National Laboratories. Chueh has received numerous honors, including the Caltech DemetriadesTsafka-Kokkalis Prize in Energy (2012), the Josephine de Karman Fellowship (2009) and the American Ceramics Society Diamond Award (2008). In 2012, he was named as one of the "top 35 innovators under the age of 35" by MIT Technology Review.
In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations) - Věda a technologie
The efficiency of turning electricity into fuels is about 70% (at best). The efficiency of turning fuel into electricity is about 40% (or less). Storing Hydrogen is a terrible pain, it needs to be either compressed, or liquified. Both storage methods need very expensive and dangerous containment. To transport it you either need to liquify it or pipe it as gas, which is very expensive for either the cryogenic shipping or for compressed gas pipelines. That has an efficiency around 60% (nearly half the energy is used to liquify or compress it and then transport it). When you burn it you need a new type of power plant. Because power plants don't like to be started and shut down, they like to run continuously, most of the power will end up being discarded anyway, for an average plant efficiency far less that 40% at the burn point. Probably closer to 25% 70% efficiency for making it, 60% efficiency for liquefaction/transport and 25% efficiency for running a power plant gives a system efficiency in the order of 10%
In comparison you can put in HVDC powerlines. You can take electricity from one side of the planet to the other for about 50% efficiency, or about 5 times greater efficiency than electricity>fuel>storage>transport>storage>burn>electricity. Shorter runs give even higher efficiencies. Power lines are also much cheaper than cryogenic shipping or high pressure gas pipelines, as little as a million USD/km compared with 3-6 million USD/km. You don't need any new infrastructure, it plugs straight into existing grids and makes them more stable. Very little storage is needed.
It's always sunny somewhere.
+gasdive
Around 85% is the predicted theoretical limit to electrolysis and about the same for fuel cells, it is just something that needs development if we go there.
On the other hand there are plenty of other "cooking pot" ideas that can cook up combustible gases out of atmospheric gases, again something that requires development or at least larger production. Obviously this is mainly to supplement oil, people will inevitably still want to heat things with gas / run gas powered engines.
HVDC is certainly a good idea for all situations because the power line losses are up to %30 in certain areas already and only get worse with higher demand. But the other solution is using solar heat plants which can store their heated liquids over longer periods, which literally only requires a ditch and a tarp to put liquid into.
gasdive excellent information thank you. I have watched many dozens of videos seeking these conversion factors and never found them until now. lithium batteries and distributed solar seems to be the best situation at this time after seeing the great losses associated with the use of hydrogen.
false
But if you're running non-despatchable renewables anyway... and there's no demand, you might as well charge up your hydrogen tanks with electrolysed water, to feed to fuel cells later.
MrDippydaddy Which part of his comment is false or why do you disagree with it? A one word comment isn't really all that helpful.
How to say something without actually saying anything!
Concentrated Solar Thermal Energy uses 100% of the solar spectrum. And, the molten salt can be stored in large tanks for 24 hour a day power generation using existing steam turbine technology.
lies
Go on try it!! HA HA HA
Where do you get your books from? Get outta that house. Roam the world.
Molten salt solar thermal requires large amounts of natural gas to keep it molten. CSP is one of the least efficient forms of electricity generation.
*Thorium Molten Salt Reactors* and Nuclear fusion need help from innovator like Will Chueh.
Solar Energy has limitations:
*Dilute : need large area* * *Seasonal variations - Need fossil power backup* * *Intermittent on hourly basis - need battery/pumped hydro backup* * *Location specific*
''You can store energy in the form of methane where the sun does not shine''.
You missed a nice TEDx joke there.
that’s more like a reddit joke.
This TED talk is not so new news. I played with nickel, platinum, and other catalyst to separate O from H2O at Reed College in 1984. Lately have been experimenting with Fresnel Lenses applied to solar cells to not only generate electricity, but deionize water, and, separate H2 and O for later combustion.
It’s down to funding and engineering to take it to an industrial scale.
Just a side note: What if people start thinking of ethane, water, and CO2 as renewable? What Dr Chueh suggests is nothing less than a paradigm shift in they way we look at carbon fuels and CO2. Can’t wait until the all those “Anti-Science” accusers get up to speed with the frickin’ science. The future is bright, literally!!!
I don't understand the "strangest places" in the title. What's strange about that? I came here for interesting new storage approaches but to be fair the video is three years old.
He means using the electrical energy to make combustible fuel, rather than pumped hydro or batteries to store the excess energy.
But he isn't and nor are we so why did he waste my time with an infantile lecture
“If you think about it, everything is solar energy if you go back far enough” really wasn’t the approach I was expecting....
I learned nothing from that presentation.
Walt Hodgson well that’s what you learned then.
What about mechanical storage of energy like pushing water uphill to be released as needed and converted into ac with turbines. Or large springs and gears like a giant watch
Not a bad idea, but the efficiency would be low... it would take tremendous losses of energy
Antony Simkin I’m not an engineer per se but, the laws of physics state that you will always have losses of energy through entropy. However, watches were always very efficient Dr. Manhattan. You will get out what you put in
@@shadowdance4666 the deal is to find something without that much losses, aren't you agree?
Wow Will !! Amazing job, Spread so well. This is truly an innovative idea and will be apart of the future for renewables. Iron Oxide!! You clever buggers :) glad I'm apart of this shift, love and light!
dear ted talks: I have been looking for a educational video talking about how vibrations can produce electricity within certain metals. i was hoping by posting this that the idea could be
look in the pyramides of Jizah
Hmmm...storing the energy from the sun in a chemical fuel rather than a battery. Cool idea.
Suitable for an elementary school presentation up to the 5th grade.
Watch out for the ultra violent light.
Heard that too. I even listened a few times but he's definitely saying Ultraviolent :D
HIgh temperature electrolysis is now being investigated.
85% efficiency for turning electricity into methane is realistic.
That is our future energy storage for heating and plane traffic.
This process is like photosynthesis but the fuel is not glucose.
high pitch sound of his voice is giving me a little x.
combining photovoltaic with thermal peltier electric still requires a heat sink. There needs to be a temperature differential, to use heat to make power.
using more panels than you need during the day to power pumps to pump water up higher then when needed release the water thru turbine generators to produce electricity at night or when needed.
I don't think we should simply burn the fuel. The efficiency might be too low.
why not just hook solar panels up to air compressor and run motors on the compressed air?
Many people are working on this solution and have been for decades. The biggest problem was the pressure differential between full and empty tanks - they addressed this issue in coastal regions by anchoring huge air bags on the bottom of the ocean. this allows usage of ALL of the air in the bag right down to the last cubic foot and all at nearly the exact same pressure.
great content thanks
Future is belong to Renewable energy particular Solar energy
I thought I was missing something until I saw the comments... presentation wasn’t very clear
I guess it's not possible to use the surplus solar energy at the day side on the night side and than vice versa ?? The grid would need to be very well strong , well connected anywhere and very fast for that.
Not without grid scale electrical energy storage. You are right, if the grid could be interconnected, odds are, the sun will be shining somewhere, and the wind will be blowing somewhere. That would greatly reduce, but not totally eliminate the need for energy storage of some kind. The more distributed the intermittent sources, the larger the customer base, the more stable the grid gets. Turbines scattered all over is actually more effective, than a wind farm, where large numbers of machines are running all at once, or not at all at the same time. Wind farms NEED energy storage. Tesla proved that in southern Australia.
as long as wheels are turning, there is no reason a person can't throw a battery bank in the trunk and have them charging when the brakes are applied. throw away disc brakes. the battery is the new brake. come home, slide in your bank and voila. new thinking is all we need. And yes, Thorium!
regenerative braking can help keep your car battery charged
True and False ! - it's true in mechanical terms, but HELLACIOUSLY Expensive to put four electric motor hubs on your car, not to mention the technical challenge to the average person and/or the cost of having someone else do it for you is just astronomical..... of course if the Car companies did it it would be the greatest but you know as well as I do that they make tons of money on brake systems, pads, cleaning, rotors, ...etc. They plan the failure of every system in our lives.
you're describing regenerative braking, which is a feature of virtually all hybrids, and electric vehicles. It's used to put energy back into a battery, then reused to re accelerate the car. That makes the car much more efficient in town.
This talk needed details on the projects his lab is working on or has completed.
We shouldn't be burning carbon or greenhouse gases at all. What we need is power generation that removes carbon from the atmosphere and stores it in the soil.
Plants?
exactly
+Julia Lerner More correctly plants use their energy to grow, then if their chemical energy is not harnessed by another life form (like fungus to who do produce co2) all they have done is effectively used the energy of the sun to remove carbon. Whoo hoo this is great. But back in human land. It requires energy to take carbon out of the atmosphere. Thermodynamicly we cannot gain energy from this. You hide the cake or you eat it, but you still need to expend the energy to make it.
Qilnexio what if you pyrolisise that plant carbon? You then have a stable form of carbon as a residue (char) and flammable gases than can drive a turbine.
If you burn hydrogen... you get water. 2x H2 + O2 = 2x H2O. There is no carbon involved in the process. In addition, any bio-fuel is by definition carbon neutral. In order to grow plants, plants take CO2 out of the atmosphere and give off O2. When you burn the plant, you get CO2.
On the Avasva you can count on professional help with problems and technical support.
Ok that's nice but can I make or buy one of these solar thermal cells?
and PV also storage even wind are improving year by year ... 4 years later 2018
A well deserved thumb down for not understanding basic physics and misleading the public.
whats wrong wt you?
Man that picture of USA no way can be from ISS. Unless ISS wen´t off orbit about thousands miles away.
It is inaccurate to say that solar is the only way to get the energy we need. We have nuclear resources for tens of thousands of years, at least.
Those shadows under little suns in the infographics were funny.
I have solar panels and batteries, I live in Canada, I want to now run hot water coils behind my solar electric panels since it will make the electric panels more efficient and then I will have hot water (through some kind of antifreeze heat exchanger) and since I have hot water, then once my batteries are charged, I can also more easily electrolize it into hydrogen and oxygen gas and store that during summer for winter heating! Storing energy in the strangest places!
so how far along are they?
koch brothers did buy the project this year. they said that it will be done by the year of 3500.
If it weren't for the war machine, we would already have developed
liquid flouride thorium reactors and storage would be the only energy
game left to solve. Five years of development at Oak Ridge Labs in
1960's already proved the technology - just couldn't get any weapons
grade material from it so it was mothballed. Modern tech makes it much
cheaper to build today and its "walk-away safe"
We are late but not too late, I hope.
An accelerated effort is essential.
Reasons pollution security health.
We must explain to the young ones.
Joseph France
I was thinking otherwise - store the light as compressed light and release it when needed but how? well, we can compress air, why not light!
We have superconductors, super capacitor, if we only had super reflector? One problem with such a device, is if the reflector failed while full of photons, you would have invented "Star Trek-photon torpedo", and make a permanent shadow on the wall.
Check out SaltX for storage of energy. This will be the future.
The sun does shine all the time. They don't turn it of at night.
TEDx leads energy world.
But what we really want is to take away the power from the big businesses and not transfer energy in pipelines.
To store solar energy for homes and office buildings and factories, the only efficient way is to pump water uphill, from one lake to another. Then after dusk, you open the valves and let the water run downhill through turbine blades to generate electricity. This technique is used every day in real life.Tanks of compressed air have some practical potential too.Molten salts are much less efficient. Batteries and fuel cells are a complete non-starters at large scales.After there is no more fossil fuel, airplanes will need synthetic liquid fuels created by using electricity, regardless of the inefficiency of conversion.
In a rural home with a lawn why not take the heat from a water heater solar panel transfer it to a modified septic tank/anaerobic digester ad grass clippings and food wast . you get stored energy in methane and manure. If you know why please explain
You can! In Carlsbad , Ca .. At the waste water treatment plant. Water is treated with beneficial microbes through many stages .. Then the sludge is Dried.. Like I'm a giant dryer!! Ha. The dried stuff comes out / in pellets used as fertilizer.. And the gases produced by the microbes pump energy back in the system !! I recommend looking it up :D amazing stuff . Much love and light for you putting the pieces together.. I guess to answer. The machine needs to be made up by a clever mind like yours :) much love and light!
why do you need to add heat to an anaerobic digester? I have read about digesters and never seen that mentioned as a need. Rotting grass clippings get hot on their own (in air)
@@bobo888bobo Your righ about grass heating up in heeps. In a digester their is a percentage of water that prevents this a digester has to be at about body temp for it to work
The big problem with solar is chemtrails a sack cloth over the sky
so they are microwaving the iron oxide solution to kick off the reaction. pretty simple. a little goes a long way...
I hate to have to state the obvious but the Sun actually does shine all the time...
So you're just wasting people's time with a bunch of empry presentations, but not explaining how you would go about doining it.
Wonder how much this will cost to commercialise?
from what it sounds like to me they are removing parts they dont need and increasing efficiency it will probably way less then conventional means. I wish they would put up the numbers though.
bad presetation...
I didnt understand whats the project about. He just looks like a salesman...
The quality of ted talks if going down the drain.
Great talk! Use mirrors:
1) to increase efficiency of solar cells and
2) to get heat, which can then be used to store the solar energy in water.
This is not a TED talk, it is a TEDx
@@sonjak8265 as a fuel im thinking by combining it with co2
@@sonjak8265 They already have this technology and it is being implemented... but it uses salt, not water because the energy (heat) that can be stored in salt is far greater than water. I believe salt can hold something like 1000ºF as opposed to 212ºF
@@HollisTedford That is a different implementation. For molten salt, it's just using concentrated solar heating, nothing to do with photovoltaic cells. This talk describes using photovoltaic plus the heating of the water coolant to disassociate 2H2O into 2H2 and O2. The electricity from the photovoltaic will split the water molecule into its constituent parts. The electricity isn't (immediately) used for electrical grid use, but to break the water molecule. Then, the separated H2 will be stored and can be transported to wherever. Ideally, you'll have canisters galore of compressed H2 and you'll bring them to where they're needed (by truck or rail, I presume), and you're constantly making more containers of H2.
The molten salt idea is to heat the salt until it's melted, then run a secondary loop of water around that. Do a heat exchange from primary molten salt loop with secondary water loop, heat the water into steam and send that through a turbine for your fairly traditionally steam generator. The molten salt can stay hot and useful as the primary heat source for the secondary loop far after the sun has set. So while it might not go 24/7 (maybe one day it could), it can perhaps do 18 hours or more. And the remaining 6 or so hours can be during the extreme low use times (1-7am) and whatever energy needed then could be covered by wind and/or hydro.
Impressive! Though it is only a theory.
Lendon???
Similar to what the chlorophyll molecule does
So you're saying we should convert solar energy into ethanol, combust it to produce mechanical energy and then convert that to electric energy by waving magnets around so that we can charge our phones.
The real question is how to make a smart phone out of plants.
TedX TURN DOWN YOUR INTRO !!!
Am I the only one to think that he makes confusion between eV (energy) and V (surely not energy) ?
Is that Eifel Tower in Tokyo? what the heck.. 😱
its in red.... = =
its the tokyo tower...
Play at 1.25. Thank me later
1.75 if you want to hear Elon Musk.
How about using solar cells to power photonic circuits and all that stuff? Why waste it on electricity? I bet it'd be very efficient then.
Talk to Stanley Meyer... Oh too late, the FBI took him out
Tokyo has an Eiffel tower?
That's Tokyo Tower my friend
We waste time and energy chasing silly dreams when the solutions are already in our hands. Hydro efficiencies are a dismal 15%. Redesign what we do and we can change that by 5 times. Without dams.
Even better, move warm, humid air from the surface up to 30,000 or 40,000 feet, then capture the kinetic energy from the moisture when it condenses and falls, use the water for growing food, and use the cooling effect for improving human comfort and fighting climate change.
Is there any way to use heated water to generate energy?
get it hot enough to spin a turbine and produce electricity... or displace electricity consumed for low-grade thermal process requirements... net-net, you do well if the manner in which the heated water is generated to begin with (solar, byproduct of some other process...)
Lyle Stavast It would be hybrid or dual use. And not to steam phase but perhaps in the neighborhood if boiling. So high thermal delta but what to use it for? Preheated water for quick cooking water. But that use would likely be over supplied quickly.
There's a huge amount of low grade thermal requirements out there - any of them could be useful... One that's been entertained is heating sewage effluent to increase evaporation rates... are you asking because you have a process that's going to generate a lot, or are you asking for some other reason ? Space heating is the simplest use of bulks of heat - drying crops can be done with it (and that's important for things like corn to ethanol in one type of conversion)... You might find a way to use the heat to expand something like a freon loop, which then "boils" and drives a generator too...
Lyle Stavast year round collateral heat capture, not generation. But once removed/separated, seems a shame to waste it.
The lower the temp, the harder to use directly to generate some electricity from it. Space heating, sure. A heat sink for heat pumps to draw from can be extremely efficient these days. I know a reverse application for ICE - freeze water in an insulated storage area under a parking garage in the cool season (Dallas) and feed chillers from it in the summer. I think it's JC Penny's HQ I saw it at in north Plano near the tollway... the reverse could happen for heating as well...
Atlantis & Lemuria
thorium is another energy source that can last forever
+Gary Lewis and isn't reliant on
or from the sun
hey, symbol for hydrogen is H, not H2
Hydrogen naturally occurs as H2, Oxygen naturally occurs as O2, Sulfur naturally occurs as S8, etc. etc.
H is monatomic Hydrogen. Instantly combines to H2 at any Earthly pressures. H only exists between stars and even then most of it is H2.
i learned that the problem is that we are inside of the best eficient battery ever. and we have to be out side of this operation we should focus the tecnology todo all this inside the car and we have the best ever baterry. and he wont tell us his tech. he is telling a people that is in his lvl. witch can do it reality because we really are out of time.
Pyramids :) QC
if you were an insurance company, would YOU insure H2 cars ? me neither
Thomas what if the H2 just had a slow leak til the garage filled up (top to bottom) to the hot water heater over a 3 day weekend ?H202@90% has three times the energy of gasoline, 80% of the energy of cryogenic H2 , AND is non flammable . It can can also put 5lbs/gal of O2 back into our air - H2 cant do that
Hope you watched CZcams/cecil mills/WAR WE WANT and GLOBAL WARming
+Thomas Milburn Thomas H202 is the liquid fuel that powered the Worlds Fastest cars (yes,can also be a bleach) maybe thats why it is the "cleanest" fuel we have - I will tell you if the US Govt wont please push this button for WAR WE WANT
Total govt clampdown on this fuel
H2O2 was used in the Nazi rocket fighter that shot down B-17s in WW2 - so at high concentration it has a lot of fuel potential, albeit it's unstable and corrosive
***** Yes thats it ! Simple engjneering problems you should add to that list : non flammable , totally recyclable , cheap , positive emission (02) and high energy . Safety is a big plus - pollution from fossils killing millions now .Did you push the button ?
***** but youre about 70 years behind
Graphene
In 1973 the US went bankrupt. To solve the problem the US made an agreement with Saudi Arabia to accept only US Dollars for oil (petrodollar system). This created a demand for US dollar around the world that backs the US economy. The US don't control the oil production, they control the sales of oil all over the world. That is the reason that alternative energy is not convenient to the US economy. More fossil fuel is more back to the US dollar. This system allows the US to print money without any ballast ( FIAT Dollars). The problem is not technical is economical.
That sounds about right
U know whats better? Permaculture.
+weRbananas been smoking too much of the wacky tobacco eh
nah. it's just that people keep making these new innovations, that support our lifestyle, and will not truly solve the problem at hand.
It seems so obvious to me to use Peltier TEG between the back of the Solar panels and heat sinks to increment the productivity of solar energy farming and then simply store that energy in weights.
You can pump water uphill during the day and keep a hydroelectric facility to produce electricity 24/7.
You can also lift something heavy and use ratio gears to spin a generator at night.
Seems much more efficient than trying to make fuel.
If this presentation was at an elementary school by an elementary school student I would think this is cute but unimpressive .
You need to make some changes. Check Avasva Solutions if you want to make it right.
Ethanol, more fuel to produce than btu's of energy. Same with hydrogen, ours is derived from natural gas, methane, maybe but all this is childlike wishful thinking
what
oil gas and coal are not fossil fuels, they are abiogenic, it can never run out.
work goes much faster with Avasva plans.
Tidal energy and geothermal are not from the sun
update my join investments black and whites documents, investments,holder buyer corporate gold back up capitals
Very interesting
he is selling Iphones
A colossal waste of time. Nothing new, nothing unique, nothing interesting.
proper bollocks
worst statement : youcan`t kep the energy in LiIon batteries !!!! wrong ! you can keep charged batteries for years !
problem is this, problem is that, noisy Sheep
Um. ALGAE?
This is where trevor milton stole his presentation ideas for the hydrogen fuel.
This guy is a not very smart at all
9 minutes and 50 seconds of pointlessness
This talk has no real content. It's more or less just babbling.
What a load of waffle.
Stopped watching when he said "the second problem of the sun is that it doesn't shine where we need it to shine"... well it shines happily in the tropics, EXACTLY WHERE IT NEEDS TO SHINE! so please go back to school and learn again boy!
I respect his knowledge but Tedx should push harder on having speakers with a neutral accent do the presentations. I could barely understand most of what Prof. Chueh was saying.