Ah, thrustmaster. Always one step behind the competition. They used to be basically the only game in town (like two decades ago) and that's what kept them relevant. Then after we started getting lots of other options, thrustmaster stayed relevant by being cheaper than most of the competition while still being reasonably good quality. Now they've gone for a premium piece of kit, at a premium price point, but they're just catching up to the standard set by boutique manufacturers years ago. Lots of the big names are making FFB sticks now, so I'd expect to see thrustmaster get on board with that in like 10 years.
Umm, what are you smoking? Thrustmaster has been some of the ~most expensive sticks on the market for the past 15 years. haha Saitek, Virpl, and Winwing are all cheaper.
@@ImpendingJoker the thrustmaster t16000m has been the standard entry level stick for like 10-15 years now. You can get the stick, throttle and pedal combo for less than £200. The cheapest you could get a stick from virpil right now is about £340. That's for the warbrd base and warbrd grip. You do not get a throttle or pedals with that. Cheapest option for all three from virpil would be about £800.
We still don't know a lot about the two FFB bases coming out. I'm holding out to get one of them but I want to see a lot of reviews first. My guess is Thrustmaster is waiting on the competition to make all their mistakes. Then come out with one of their own that takes all the lessons learned from their competition to give a well polished product. This product will be for those who can't afford or don't want a FFB stick but want something midrange. I have no doubt TM is going to release a FFB base with in a year or two of their competition. But, man, that Moza FFB base looks real nice.
Always funny when some guys come and post useless toxic comments below content creators vdieo made for fans. Like you need in your life to spread your hanger... without Thrustmaster there won't be virpil, winwing or other exotic brands that just release copies... Now for FFB, let's see how it flies, at which price but ot sure i have the room to fit these huge boxes in mys et up
@@aquamich129 I'm not spreading my hanger. I'm using all my hangers for my shirts. That said, if you think virpil and winwing are releasing copies of thrustmaster kit, you're badly misinformed. The innards of this thrustmaster stick are clearly designed after the internals of virpil, winwing, and similar high end hardware. Thrustmaster have never built a stick with this style of internals before, so clearly if anyone is copying anyone, it would be TM. That said, I'm not bothered that TM are making similar internals, it's a great design. It's just that they should have been making this stick 5-10 years ago.
This is Bonnie not Michael. I know nothing about this topic. What I do know is my dad ( I’m almost 70) flew captain on B24 bombers during ww2. Then he flew for Eastern Airlines for 50yrs. When he retired he got a plane called a Swift. He took out the steering wheel and put in a stick. More fun he said. He passed many years ago but always lived life the way he wanted. My mom made him quit racing motorcycles when he broke his ankle. He raced in off road races. He helped me with my first car. It was a 1969 Camaro and had it repainted dark green and I wanted thin racing stripes. We put American Racing mags on it. It looked great. No ac and my legs stuck to the seat but I didn’t care. I’m rambling, but feel we have lost so much since those days. Just a little snippet of someone’s life. My father’s mother always told him to fly low and slow. He didn’t.
Hi Bonnie, Your words are thoughtful and warming to any father who reads them. I am sure your Dad was very proud of you throughout his life which he lived large. ps I am a grandfather 76 yrs young.
Sweet JESUS - an officer conducting "Maintenance" - get a QAR out to check, and have the AK and MO really check paperwork. Seriously though - good work, looks like a nice new toy
Hello Ward. Can you make a video about maneuvering on an aircraft carrier deck? It always fascinates me how close to the edge of the carrier the pilots roll their jet to a parking position so precisely using only thrust and the nose wheel. Is this actually practiced on land beforehand on a painted carrier deck?
You should probably mount that lower and put an extension on the stick. It really changes the throw and how tight the spring needs to be, But it also adds more control in subtle movements for fine adjustments in formation or refueling. The longer stick prevents you from over-controlling so much.
Thrustmaster FINALLY upgrades the Warthog stick base after 15 years at the exact same time all the big manufacturers are making the next generational leap to FFB bases. Still a nice upgrade, but I won't be giving up my Virpil Mongoose any time soon.
This thing is so uninteresting with the Moza AB9 on the horizon and WinWing Cyber Taurus as well. Soon the days of having to put yourself on a 2 year wait list for VPForce Rhino finally will be over. And Asobo put FFB support to "planned for FS2024+" as well. Finally, was about time that sim getting support.
Absolutely agreed. Unless Thrustmaster has a seriously amazing FFB base coming out pretty much immediately, then this whole AVA adventure is just "a day late, and a dollar short" unfortunately. Thrustmaster has finally caught up to VKB, Virpil, and Winwing, but 5 years too late. I had a warthog for 10 years, and regretted it for about 9 of those. I've had a VP Force Rhino FFB base now for a year though and there is just NO going back.... EVER. The FFB functionality on that thing is just truly sublime and is still constantly improving, almost daily. Ward, please pick up a Rhino, it's just a work of art. You won't be disappointed.
@@LotusSimulations Totally this. I got my Sidewinder FFB2 back in 2003 and was late to the party with that. After coming from the cheaper Precision 2 (the Pro before that which followed the 3D Pro, before that I had a Gravis Analog Pro) and trying my first HOTAS with the Saitek X45, I was completely disappointed of both the rudder rocker and the stick spring and that FFB2 was like salvation. A few months later, the rudder axis broke, bought a second one and it happened again (both are the red LED ones, basically 2nd gen, the first were green), so I decided to pick up rudder pedals, which were the Simped Vario Pro USB in 2005. I then tried the G940 from Logitech in 2011 (off of eBay) and was completely floored by the bad hysteresis filter thingy as well as the extreme slack in FFB around the center and also the way more gear-grindier FFB, I knew I wouldn't use it for long and since I heard about the wiring being too short in the throttle, I quickly went away from the idea of using that at least, sold the whole set at a loss of around 20 bucks and bought a used TMWH. Stick went right into the wardrobe to collect dust after a quick try in the A10. Buttonology was absolute amazing, but I basically flew like a fricken derp and couldn't even hit a barn with the GAU because of that utterly devastating spring. And thusly I'm running the TMWH throttle + FFB2 combo ever since and only replaced the Simpeds with MFG Crosswind and added two Saitek quadrants for more sliders (which aren't that great BTW, the pots spike a lot and need regular servicing, which sucks - my FFB2 is old enough to have beer in the US and doesn't do any of that). Wanted to get the Rhino, but had to get my PC upgraded first and now the waiting time is said to be somewhere in between 6 months and 2 years. With the Moza on the horizon, I guess I'll skip that while also hoping that the Moza will be less expensive. And since it is sold through their shop, I'd have the option to pay in rates via PayPal, which is rather convenient for me in case of bigger investments. So I don't have to save up right now to get it... ^^
@@NiklasAndersson7 FFB makes a lot of difference in anything that's not complete FBW. As someone else just wrote somewhere recently: Flying without FFB is like flying with broken trim. This is especially true for helicopters.
All I can think about with you having something like this is that your muscle memory and training will be even more precise when you go into PvP games using it, Ward. Just logging in and teaching all the young ones what a trained and experienced pilot can do in a cockpit while you dominate the digital sky.
Looks like ya need to rotate that stick a handful of degrees to the left so it's more ergonomic, but looks good! We still need to get ya in the back seat for a full Blues Demo in the sim in the Super Hornet.
If it were truly "all metal", I'd consider getting one. Instead, they chose to use a plastic part between the grip and the base. All that innovation is surrounding a heart of garbage, just like on the Warthog. My Warthog base started failing with about 60 hours of use. TM support was no help. That was an expensive lesson I don't need to learn a second time. The Virpil gear I replaced it with is better quality, and cost less.
As others already mentioned, I strongly agree TM is missing the Force Feedback train at the station. The "Feedback" part is the most intriguing here. Try the Heatblur F-4E or the Huey with something like the VPforce Rhino. You can feel the hydraulic fluid, you feel the pressure of air over the control surfaces with AOA and speed changing. Simply trimming is whole different experience, as you feel the pressure reducing with each click on the trim hat. As for helicopters the simulation of real force trim (and force trim release) is something you need to experience. I was really hoping TM would reveal a new flagship FFB Base and maybe an upper midrange non-FFB for the product line up. Really disappointing. 😕
@@aquamich129every company has a mid range line up. Wingeonng just launched their stick I think it was like 120 usd. VKb has the gladiator which cost a little more and Virpil has a whole line of stuff in the budget coming out soon.
I'm not a pilot, but I wish I had been. VR has been amazing for DCS. One of the things I find very hard to do is a proper Case 1 complete with the break, downwind, groove, etc. To learn this I've been focused on my numbers. 350 kts/800 ft into the break, hit about 1.2 nm from the boat on the downwind, make sure my e-bracket is is always lined up and I'm on speed, and hitting my bank angle right to line up in the groove. I noticed you were not worried about where your e-bracket was, you didn't use TACAN at all, and in the groove you just followed the ball and kept your vector at the crotch of the boat. Am I worrying too much about hitting my numbers? Also, I'm using a rather cheap thrustmaster joystick and throttle. Does it get easier to be more precise with the setup you have? I'm definitely looking to buy a better stick and throttle.
Mooch, did they send the Offset Adapter also? It allows for the offset twist of the grip like the actual stick. Gives a great natural feel to it. If you don't have it, I'd recommend it. Happy flying! Fly Navy!
"Boeing Branded" huh? Mooch, please be careful in that thing...Boeing being kinda 'sus' (suspect)at the moment. I don't wanna see any u-toob entries like "You toober takes a trip to the ER after sim-pit crashes...Boeing named as focus of congressional inquiry"😉
The only downside to capturing VR video, that constant jiggling motion. Not sure how to really cancel that out either for YT videos either! My G2 died a year ago, went with the Oculus Quest Pro - wow, great upgrade! Im surprised PIMAX hasn't offered you a Crystal to review.
I'll have to keep my eye on this. Out of curiosity, do you also run any of the piston planes in DCS? Or do you keep to the jets? I'd love to know how it works with the Mustang and Thunderbolt as I switch between flying the Viper, the Tomcat, and those two with some frequency.
Ah, thrustmaster. Always one step behind the competition. They used to be basically the only game in town (like two decades ago) and that's what kept them relevant.
Then after we started getting lots of other options, thrustmaster stayed relevant by being cheaper than most of the competition while still being reasonably good quality.
Now they've gone for a premium piece of kit, at a premium price point, but they're just catching up to the standard set by boutique manufacturers years ago.
Lots of the big names are making FFB sticks now, so I'd expect to see thrustmaster get on board with that in like 10 years.
Umm, what are you smoking? Thrustmaster has been some of the ~most expensive sticks on the market for the past 15 years. haha Saitek, Virpl, and Winwing are all cheaper.
@@ImpendingJoker the thrustmaster t16000m has been the standard entry level stick for like 10-15 years now. You can get the stick, throttle and pedal combo for less than £200.
The cheapest you could get a stick from virpil right now is about £340. That's for the warbrd base and warbrd grip. You do not get a throttle or pedals with that.
Cheapest option for all three from virpil would be about £800.
We still don't know a lot about the two FFB bases coming out. I'm holding out to get one of them but I want to see a lot of reviews first.
My guess is Thrustmaster is waiting on the competition to make all their mistakes. Then come out with one of their own that takes all the lessons learned from their competition to give a well polished product.
This product will be for those who can't afford or don't want a FFB stick but want something midrange. I have no doubt TM is going to release a FFB base with in a year or two of their competition.
But, man, that Moza FFB base looks real nice.
Always funny when some guys come and post useless toxic comments below content creators vdieo made for fans. Like you need in your life to spread your hanger... without Thrustmaster there won't be virpil, winwing or other exotic brands that just release copies... Now for FFB, let's see how it flies, at which price but ot sure i have the room to fit these huge boxes in mys et up
@@aquamich129 I'm not spreading my hanger. I'm using all my hangers for my shirts.
That said, if you think virpil and winwing are releasing copies of thrustmaster kit, you're badly misinformed.
The innards of this thrustmaster stick are clearly designed after the internals of virpil, winwing, and similar high end hardware. Thrustmaster have never built a stick with this style of internals before, so clearly if anyone is copying anyone, it would be TM.
That said, I'm not bothered that TM are making similar internals, it's a great design. It's just that they should have been making this stick 5-10 years ago.
This is Bonnie not Michael. I know nothing about this topic. What I do know is my dad ( I’m almost 70) flew captain on B24 bombers during ww2. Then he flew for Eastern Airlines for 50yrs. When he retired he got a plane called a Swift. He took out the steering wheel and put in a stick. More fun he said. He passed many years ago but always lived life the way he wanted. My mom made him quit racing motorcycles when he broke his ankle. He raced in off road races. He helped me with my first car. It was a 1969 Camaro and had it repainted dark green and I wanted thin racing stripes. We put American Racing mags on it. It looked great. No ac and my legs stuck to the seat but I didn’t care. I’m rambling, but feel we have lost so much since those days. Just a little snippet of someone’s life. My father’s mother always told him to fly low and slow. He didn’t.
Hi Bonnie, Your words are thoughtful and warming to any father who reads them. I am sure your Dad was very proud of you throughout his life which he lived large. ps I am a grandfather 76 yrs young.
I have most of the current bases out there and the AVA is probably the smoothest one. It’s a no regret upgrade over the Warthog.
Sweet JESUS - an officer conducting "Maintenance" - get a QAR out to check, and have the AK and MO really check paperwork. Seriously though - good work, looks like a nice new toy
Hello Ward. Can you make a video about maneuvering on an aircraft carrier deck? It always fascinates me how close to the edge of the carrier the pilots roll their jet to a parking position so precisely using only thrust and the nose wheel. Is this actually practiced on land beforehand on a painted carrier deck?
oh this would be a great video
Thank you for the review!
You should probably mount that lower and put an extension on the stick. It really changes the throw and how tight the spring needs to be, But it also adds more control in subtle movements for fine adjustments in formation or refueling. The longer stick prevents you from over-controlling so much.
Hi Mooch, Are you sure this isn't made by aliens? The shape of the device looks almost like the Tic Tac that our aviators have been seeing!!😁😁
Thrustmaster FINALLY upgrades the Warthog stick base after 15 years at the exact same time all the big manufacturers are making the next generational leap to FFB bases. Still a nice upgrade, but I won't be giving up my Virpil Mongoose any time soon.
This thing is so uninteresting with the Moza AB9 on the horizon and WinWing Cyber Taurus as well. Soon the days of having to put yourself on a 2 year wait list for VPForce Rhino finally will be over. And Asobo put FFB support to "planned for FS2024+" as well. Finally, was about time that sim getting support.
Absolutely agreed. Unless Thrustmaster has a seriously amazing FFB base coming out pretty much immediately, then this whole AVA adventure is just "a day late, and a dollar short" unfortunately. Thrustmaster has finally caught up to VKB, Virpil, and Winwing, but 5 years too late. I had a warthog for 10 years, and regretted it for about 9 of those. I've had a VP Force Rhino FFB base now for a year though and there is just NO going back.... EVER. The FFB functionality on that thing is just truly sublime and is still constantly improving, almost daily. Ward, please pick up a Rhino, it's just a work of art. You won't be disappointed.
@@LotusSimulations Totally this. I got my Sidewinder FFB2 back in 2003 and was late to the party with that. After coming from the cheaper Precision 2 (the Pro before that which followed the 3D Pro, before that I had a Gravis Analog Pro) and trying my first HOTAS with the Saitek X45, I was completely disappointed of both the rudder rocker and the stick spring and that FFB2 was like salvation. A few months later, the rudder axis broke, bought a second one and it happened again (both are the red LED ones, basically 2nd gen, the first were green), so I decided to pick up rudder pedals, which were the Simped Vario Pro USB in 2005.
I then tried the G940 from Logitech in 2011 (off of eBay) and was completely floored by the bad hysteresis filter thingy as well as the extreme slack in FFB around the center and also the way more gear-grindier FFB, I knew I wouldn't use it for long and since I heard about the wiring being too short in the throttle, I quickly went away from the idea of using that at least, sold the whole set at a loss of around 20 bucks and bought a used TMWH. Stick went right into the wardrobe to collect dust after a quick try in the A10. Buttonology was absolute amazing, but I basically flew like a fricken derp and couldn't even hit a barn with the GAU because of that utterly devastating spring. And thusly I'm running the TMWH throttle + FFB2 combo ever since and only replaced the Simpeds with MFG Crosswind and added two Saitek quadrants for more sliders (which aren't that great BTW, the pots spike a lot and need regular servicing, which sucks - my FFB2 is old enough to have beer in the US and doesn't do any of that).
Wanted to get the Rhino, but had to get my PC upgraded first and now the waiting time is said to be somewhere in between 6 months and 2 years. With the Moza on the horizon, I guess I'll skip that while also hoping that the Moza will be less expensive. And since it is sold through their shop, I'd have the option to pay in rates via PayPal, which is rather convenient for me in case of bigger investments. So I don't have to save up right now to get it... ^^
Great review. Thanks 👍
Just buy a Virpil Warbrd-D Base. More quality & better design for less money.
Ward, see if you can get Moza to send you their brand new flightstick base. It has Force Feedback!
Second that. Would love to see it reviewed by the good channel creators like Ward.
Yeah. Moza's FFB-stick looks really promising. Can it be a game changer? Literally?
@@NiklasAndersson7 FFB makes a lot of difference in anything that's not complete FBW. As someone else just wrote somewhere recently: Flying without FFB is like flying with broken trim. This is especially true for helicopters.
Love it - Missing a trick though - Monstertech stick/throttle extension mounds gets you to 'as real as it gets'!
All I can think about with you having something like this is that your muscle memory and training will be even more precise when you go into PvP games using it, Ward. Just logging in and teaching all the young ones what a trained and experienced pilot can do in a cockpit while you dominate the digital sky.
Thanks, Ward.
Hum from camera? Before 2:54 after you opened base.
Send it back. The MOZA Flight FFB base that is compatible with TM sticks should be available in Q4 2024.
There is a small extension available to give a 15 or 30 degree offset
Hey Ward, lookin' good man. Thanks for the videos!
Looks like ya need to rotate that stick a handful of degrees to the left so it's more ergonomic, but looks good! We still need to get ya in the back seat for a full Blues Demo in the sim in the Super Hornet.
Nice part!
This is the video that Sparky has been waiting for. 🤘🏼🇺🇸🤣
Winwing is a much better choice. Maybe the only thing that can save TM right now is the TEDAC grip for AH64.
Sleeping until they make an actual force feedback stick
Not much into video games. Thanks anyway Ward. Great channel
Thanks a lot…….now I want to spend a bunch of money on a simulator as it seems they have come a long way since I last used one!😃😃👍🏼
If it were truly "all metal", I'd consider getting one. Instead, they chose to use a plastic part between the grip and the base. All that innovation is surrounding a heart of garbage, just like on the Warthog. My Warthog base started failing with about 60 hours of use. TM support was no help. That was an expensive lesson I don't need to learn a second time. The Virpil gear I replaced it with is better quality, and cost less.
As others already mentioned, I strongly agree TM is missing the Force Feedback train at the station.
The "Feedback" part is the most intriguing here.
Try the Heatblur F-4E or the Huey with something like the VPforce Rhino. You can feel the hydraulic fluid, you feel the pressure of air over the control surfaces with AOA and speed changing. Simply trimming is whole different experience, as you feel the pressure reducing with each click on the trim hat. As for helicopters the simulation of real force trim (and force trim release) is something you need to experience.
I was really hoping TM would reveal a new flagship FFB Base and maybe an upper midrange non-FFB for the product line up. Really disappointing. 😕
What is a midrange non-FFB? because this kit looks like it to me :)
I'd say VKB Gladiator is mid range. 220$ give or take depending on which grip you chose
@@aquamich129every company has a mid range line up. Wingeonng just launched their stick I think it was like 120 usd. VKb has the gladiator which cost a little more and Virpil has a whole line of stuff in the budget coming out soon.
I'm not a pilot, but I wish I had been. VR has been amazing for DCS. One of the things I find very hard to do is a proper Case 1 complete with the break, downwind, groove, etc. To learn this I've been focused on my numbers. 350 kts/800 ft into the break, hit about 1.2 nm from the boat on the downwind, make sure my e-bracket is is always lined up and I'm on speed, and hitting my bank angle right to line up in the groove. I noticed you were not worried about where your e-bracket was, you didn't use TACAN at all, and in the groove you just followed the ball and kept your vector at the crotch of the boat. Am I worrying too much about hitting my numbers?
Also, I'm using a rather cheap thrustmaster joystick and throttle. Does it get easier to be more precise with the setup you have? I'm definitely looking to buy a better stick and throttle.
Ward it looks like you'd love to be back in the # 1 seat.
Mooch, did they send the Offset Adapter also? It allows for the offset twist of the grip like the actual stick. Gives a great natural feel to it. If you don't have it, I'd recommend it. Happy flying! Fly Navy!
Pretty Cool 😎
Should add some UAP
to the Program.
Nice video.
Ward you should try an extension for the center stick.
How do you think it compares to the competition?
That's a cool setup! Once a pilot--always a pilot eh! ;
It's all the rage.
Do you consult on setting up flight sim equipment?
"Boeing Branded" huh? Mooch, please be careful in that thing...Boeing being kinda 'sus' (suspect)at the moment. I don't wanna see any u-toob entries like "You toober takes a trip to the ER after sim-pit crashes...Boeing named as focus of congressional inquiry"😉
How is it for WW2 type piston aircraft?
The only downside to capturing VR video, that constant jiggling motion. Not sure how to really cancel that out either for YT videos either! My G2 died a year ago, went with the Oculus Quest Pro - wow, great upgrade! Im surprised PIMAX hasn't offered you a Crystal to review.
Not really an upgrade for the price. Winwing and monza coming out with force feedback anything else is dead to me
No force feedback?
Have you tried anything from Winwing yet?
Is dat an updated thigh master?
Mooch …..you’re a frustrated fighter pilot!
I hear there was an AF guy with the call sign "Thrustmaster."
I'll have to keep my eye on this. Out of curiosity, do you also run any of the piston planes in DCS? Or do you keep to the jets? I'd love to know how it works with the Mustang and Thunderbolt as I switch between flying the Viper, the Tomcat, and those two with some frequency.
I fly Mustang but haven’t tried AVA with it yet. Would put on medium springs for that.
Damn! I’m an old pacifist guy and I want one of these!
⛽⛽✈🚀
👽👽👽👽🌎👽👽👽👽
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Yay. Thrustmaster overpriced crap. Finely joins Virpil (and I think WinWing). Thrustmaster is such junk plastic, good starter but bad starting price.
They’re like 10 years behind, Virpil and winwing are moving on to force feedback now.
No price
No care