Amaterasu and the Japanese Creation Myth - Mythillogical Podcast
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2024
- So folks, it’s been a while! On today’s episode Crofty and Charles journey to the land of the rising sun, to examine the head of the Japanese pantheon and mythical ancestress of it's Imperial family, Amaterasu. Together they examine her earliest appearances in Japanese myth, along with wider theories as to her origin and evolving significance in Japan’s culture.
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#Japan #mythology #history
Suonatore di Liuto Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
Sources for this episode included:
The Kojiki - Translated with an Introduction and Notes by Donald L. Philippi 1969
archive.org/details/kojikitra...
The Nihon Shoki/Nihongi - Translated by William George Aston 1896
archive.org/details/nihongich...
‘Old Japanese names’ by Petter Maehlum (University of Oslo Masters Thesis)
www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/hand...
The Kojiki, translated by Basil Hall Chamberlain, available on Sacred-Texts.com
sacred-texts.com/shi/kj/index...
Sources of Japanese Tradition, by William De Barry, available on Internet Archive
archive.org/details/sourcesof...
A History of the Japanese People, From the Earliest Times to the End of the Meiji Era, by Frank Brinkley and Dairoku Kikuchi, available on Gutenberg
www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/...
Origin and Growth of the Worship of Amaterasu, by Matsumae Takeshi
The Origins of the Grand Shrine of Ise and the Cult of the Sun Goddess Amaterasu Omimaki, by Akima Toshio
www.jstor.org/stable/1177580
Alone Among Women: A comparative mythic analysis of the development of Amaterasu theology, by Matsumura Kazuo
www2.kokugakuin.ac.jp/ijcc/wp...
A brief exploration of the development of the Japanese writing system, by Brianna Jilson
scholarsarchive.library.alban...
Hello from your insomniac friends in the US
maybe stop staring at a screen and u will sleep better ?
Hi from your insomniac friend in Canada. 🥶💙
Woke up at 6:00 am to eat three pickled eggs and go back to sleep lmao
this is my lullaby
Literally dozens of us.
Bro needs his 6 hours of sleep 😴
I like how the ad breaks are actually placed correctly rather than have the video be broken randomly by them.
Not me being a CZcams Premium user wondering where the annoying NordVPN Ad was...
Apologies if my audio was a bit rubbish in this episode folks, turns out the pre-amp for my microphone was slowly dying and I didn't realise.
Please do history of martial arts
phenomenal job chaps , carry on
I just thought my hearing was starting to go! 😂
@@ajithsidhu7183yes please do, @TheHistocrat that would be great.
Hey man. Is it okay to ask permission to download your videos? I am very interested in them and I wish to preserve such knowledge if something were to happen.
Speaking of puns, "kami" translates to "us" in Tagalog. The whole time you guys have been talking about your own godhood. Salute. ❤
The reason why it says "pime" instead of "hime" in the romanisation in the translation you're using is because that would have been the contemporary pronunciation when the Kojiki was written. There are other things i noticed like "sima" instead of "shima", "ti" instead of "chi", "susanowo" instead of "susanoo" or "susanō". These are just romanisations of th Old Japanese pronunciations of these sounds
The story of Ōkuninushi always fascinated me, because overall he's probably the most likeable single 'character' in the extended Japanese creation myth.
His origin as the one kind brother, other stories I'm sure you saw like him escaping those same brothers trying to kill him, stories of him fighting with and the earning the approval of Susano'o, then later growing to tame Japan and become a God great enough that even Heavenly Gods join his side.
He reads like the protagonist of his own story.
It makes the transition to the Heavenly Gods taking over via force, almost a Bad End.
Unlike the Greek Gods overthrowing the Titans, or the Mesopotamian latter generations overthrowing the tyrannical earlier ones. Here, there isn't that morality or practical justification given.
It's almost a might makes right scenario. So it was said in Heaven, so it shall Be, type deal.
Fairly unique from my knowledge of world religion.
By the time we get to Okuninushi, the Japanese creation myth has clearly reached the saga-history level of storytelling - that is to say, it is a highly symbolic and heavily "mystified" account of actual competition between the early tribes or civilisations that populated Japan in the period roughly corresponding to the first millenium BC. Okuninushi literally means "the owner of the country" and it is pretty clear that he represents either some individual(s) or a "leader tribe" that unified or at least pacified the western parts of Japan prior to invasion by more ethnically "Korean" tribes in the Yayoi period.
I suspect that the legends of the "native population" were incorporated as a prelude to the clearly Yayoi-inspired stories about Amaterasu, Susanaowo, Yamato Takeru and so on, because a substantial part of the population was still "native" and their legendrium had to be incorporated -- much in the way Roman myth absorbed that of Greece.
With Ō-Kuni-Nushi the issue is complicated because he occupies a much more active role in the Fudoki, in which he is called "The Great kami who creates everything under heaven" He seems to have a role almost more as a creation deity than a deity as far as Izumo lore is concerned
SO EXCITED!!!! I'm packing up to move today AND I have physical therapy and I was scrolling aimlessly debating what to listen to and what a good start for me!! Cheers friends!! ❤
It’s always a sunny day, when Amaterasu comes out of the cave to play.
☀️🌸☺️
You two are definitely some of my favorite nerds. Never stop making these videos.
I only very recently learned that Chibiterasu was made up for Okami's sequel and not actually from Japanese mythology and honestly I'm deeply embarrassed for myself that I couldn't pick up on the fact that Amaterasu's child just being named CHIBIterasu was almost definitely something that wouldn't be a part of actual Japanese mythology 😅
Okinawans still call Japanese as "the folk from Yamato". I lived there for four years.
One day I saw a lady that looked like an Okinawan. So I asked her if she or her parents were Okinawans. She said: Oh, actually I'm mixed race. My mother is Okinawan and my father Japanese "🙂 Here in Brazil it's not offensive to call someone a "mixed race". I live in Brazil now. Okinawa is a very interesting place. Charles & Crofty, I really enjoy your channel. Cheers
Thanks for managing to put these out despite all the moves!
Oh a 2.5 hour long Mythillogical? Hot damn! My mending and I are here for it!
Love your content guys, you unironically help me sleep. I've been listening to every video on the channel for years.
Please keep it going!
Sweet historical dreams to all from the US ❤
As a follower of a years now I'm going to say I love your videos/podcasts and rewatching this I wanted to just thank you for your content that you and Crofty(I'm unsure of spelling to this day, sorry). I hope to hear more soon, I actually really just love hearing stuff from you Charles.
aww love that yall are recording in person!
Great topic! I've always been curious about this
Listened to this like 10 times already on podcast, look forward to watching the video
Love when you guys are able to post.
big fan of the podcast, i dont mind the wait as its always worth it :)
Omg, I'm so excited, I LOVE Shinto mythology 😱 and yayyy, Crofty's back! Tbh don't blame you, if I could move to Japan I absolutely would too 😂
Also now I get why Ammy’s weapons are mirrors, prayer beads & swords
Love the channel and all the work that goes into making interesting and informative videos! I'm not sure if you're open to taking suggestions for future topics, but if so there's a mythical figure dating back to pre-hispanic times in Mexico called "la llorona" or "the weeping woman" who might be worth a deep dive. It could be a pretty dark topic but I'd love to hear what you're able to dig up. Anyway, keep up the great work!
I got pretty worried after 4 months! Great job as always
how did i miss this!?! yayyyyy! love yall from north carolina in the usa :)
Ooo, I love me some Japanese mythology! This is a lovely surprise. Thank you.
Happy and surprised to see that someone could use my master's thesis! I think this must be the only reference to it that I know of 😅 Just a small note: You cite it as "Old Japanese Names", but there should be a "plant" in there: "Old Japanese Plant Names". While there are some commonalities between general naming conventions and the naming of plants, they are a bit different and I cannot say I know much about the naming of people and places. Citation aside, I enjoyed the episode! Working with the material, I didn't really pay much attention to the stories and the mythology of Japan; the work was more linguistic in nature.🌳
Holy this is amazing thank you
History of the African Chinese
Before waves of Han migrations around 1000 B.C., the original inhabitants of China were black skinned people who dominated the region until a few thousand years ago. They were followed by the ethnic groups, who are part of the Austronesian people who have come from the Malay Archipelago 6,000 years ago. Pejoratively called Moor Negritos, or Little Black People, by the Spanish invaders who observed them in Southeast Asia, these black folk were still living in China during the Qing dynasty (1644 to 1911).
At about 35,000 B.C. a group of black Chinese, who became known as the Jomon entered Japan, they became the first humans to inhabit the Japanese Islands. Later, another group; now known as the Ainu, followed. Genetically they’re more similar to dark-skinned groups found in Southeast Asia than the Chinese, Japanese or Koreans.
Today, their genes can still be found in 40% of modern Japanese, as well as Mongolians and Tibetans, (Past and Present) Kings and Queens.
Reference: AtlanticBlackStar
Oh my Amaterasu. Was listening to the podcast ep when this notification popped up, wondering why it wasn't on CZcams 😂
Ohhh the boys iv mist yez 😊 hope you two are well ❤🇮🇪 welcome home croftey hope you had an amazing time in Japan 🇯🇵 2:15
Amaterasu Has Risen!
I loved you cracking yourself up so hard with a math pun 😂
A very Interesting episode.
I was just thinking when was this going to hit CZcams yesterday and here it is.
The Founder of the Izumo Clan is the deity Ame no Hohi, a son of Amaterasu, and nephew of Susano-o; Susano-o was then the founder of the Susa/Inada clan (Inada-hime was Susano-o's wife)
The supposed descendants of these gods are still walking around. That's like if a Roman Emperor or a founder of a Greek city's descendant is still holding interviews.
"My sword has become maidens, I have obviously won this child making session."
Two vids in one week. Let’s goooo
YESSSS ITS FINALLY OUT. LETTSSSS GOOOOOOOOOO
Would you guys ever do the geological history of mankind, I know the younger dryas period and its massive melt water pulses have been correlated with plausibly being the real geology behind the great fires & floods myths we have seen so commonly. I think it'd be interesting to try and break down real geology to try and find geomythology embedded in the stories and traditions.
Thank you.
I have a question that I've asked people in Japan, but I've never gotten an answer; If the gods made Japanese people, who made the non-Japanese people? Who are their gods according to Japanese mythology?
'myriad' was originally a specific number, 10,000
While technically true, the point of the number in most contexts was essentially to say "uncountably large."
Sort like how we'll see a large crowd and say "wow there's like a million people out there!" without actually meaning there are exactly 1,000,000 people, or even necessarily close to that number.
I just played Okami for the first time so your timing with this episode couldn’t be better. So stoked to learn about this mythology.
Waiting for it since the time of amaterasu😂
Don’t mind ad breaks when they’re sensibly placed and the audio levels don’t give me a heart attack
It's mentioned how naming all the maggots was an author "going overboard" a point I absolutely do not dispute.
But it made me think.
There's a bunch of examples of people just doing exactly that in old texts, going overboard that is, that have paid off in the long run.
How many demons are named in the Ars Goetia? And for no other reason then to name a bunch of demons. And how many Angels have names from other similar books, going way beyond anything biblical.
But there's countless examples of comparatively modern writers who went back and mined those names as some evocative short hand.
Did the maggots need names? No. But in 2024 I now know there's a trove of such names I can steal from to give a fictional character some sense unearned weight 😅
I do mean that complimentary too. Sure it's kinda lazy to name a demon Lilith... But that doesn't mean you can't also pay it off in a big way if you do it well.
So thank you old timey writers for dedicating space to meandering lists of names that have no barring on the story you're telling. It is adaptational gold.
Probably never gonna happen but I'd love a Mythillogical on The Book of Genesis
hell yeah
1:07am .... hello from.Canada 🇨🇦
It's all very "Then halkoliiteripallojuma attacked koripallosuutarihiisi and Silvennoinenkeikari gave birth to ulkohuussikohtalo and aidanseiväsmallipala."
It’s a normal day. Nothing major going on… holy fucking shit new Histocrat dropped!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Japanese Creation myth?! Fuck me I never knew I wanted to know so much about something I know nothing about! It’s an in person episode! Jesus Christ. Get a fucking mop. Up all night with this one. Thank god for mythological 😊😊😊
Who’s here to find more insight into Sun God Nika? 🏴☠️
1:17:43 bookmark
@TheHistocrat
Your discussion of "kami" is skewed by the improper association of the word with the English word "God". A much better translation of "kami" would be "spirit" (in the sense of of the Hebrew "Ruach"). When you walk in the mountains or enter a shrine, you can often sense the "kami" (atmosphere). A great work or art or an ancient building has "kami" (excellence?) A great sports player can possess such natural skill that they person themself is referred to as "kami" (for example, Zico is often referred to as "football no kami-sama"), but "kami" in that case is referring to the inner talent that inhabits the individual ... not the individuals themselves.
In the Shinto legendarium, gods are the ultimate metaphysical manifestation of kami, but if you try to take the word "kami" to mean something like "God" or "deity", then youve missed the entire foundation of the Shinto religion. There's a reason why the most important shrines in Japan get torn down and rebuilt every decade or so
The "kami" is not the impermanent object; it is the essence.
This is why most Japanese historians either reject - or at least put an asterisk next to - the claim that Emperors were ever viewed as "living gods". No -- they were believed to PERSONIFY the national kami, but only really superstitious people thought the emperor was actually a "God" in the sense that Christians, Muslims or Jews mean the word. On the contrary we have numerous historical references to people who mocked the idea that the emperor was a deity (one even made a pun on the term for "retired emperor" and "dog"). Even at the height of the Meiji-Taisho-Showa cult era, the emperor was the REPRESENTATION of Nippon no kami ... not as "Kami" in the deity sense.
I also think that viewers would benefit from knowing the literal meanings of the "names of kami", because they contain clues to the underlying metaphysical basis of Shinto.
For example, "Amenominakanushi" means "The lord (or owner) of all under heaven", "Takamimusubi" means "that which binds to all that is above" and "Kamumimusubi" means "that which binds to all that is below". Metaphysically speaking, thats not too different from the Christian trinity.
Also, if you ever edit your video make sure you fix the error at 49:25. The third god in the pre-Izanami/Izanagi trinity is "Ka-MU-mi-mu-su-bi" NOT "Ka-mi-mu-su-bi". Theres a HUGE difference.
I extremely agree regarding the concept of kami, in fact I often struggle to explain what this term means.Regarding Kami-Musubi-no-Kami or Kamu-Musubi-no-Kami I think both are correct, or rather I have heard many Japanese professors pronounce it both ways.
@@kuroyurishinobi6367 It can be hard to nail down ancient word meanings because in the earliest records they are only phonetic, not "meaningful" kanji. Therefore homophones are not distinguishable
However in terms of "kami musubi", that would mean either "binding to the kami" or "binding to the above" which doesnt really fit with the meanings of the other two gods in the trinity. You already have Takami musubi (binding to above) so why do you need Kami musubi (binding to above)???
On the other hand, in ancient Japanese "kamumi" (below) is the opposite of "takami" (above) so it seems almost certain (at least in my mind) that the two gods who are partners with "the lord of everything" should be "Takamimusubi" and "Kamumimusubi"
@@k-matsu There are different interpretations, I personally found both readings, even on the same Kokkugakuin site, but Motoori Norinaga also does not seem to suggest a single reading, there is a similar case with the name of 神直毘神 where the word "kami" is read "kamu" ,as for Kamu-Musubi-no-Kami it is really more complicated, because the Japanese themselves transliterate it and read it in both forms, there is often a huge problem with the names.
@@kuroyurishinobi6367 Read the original again.
It is Ka-Mu-Mi (three phonetic characters) .... not Ka-Mu or Ka-mi (two phonetic characters)
@@k-matsu Do you have any sources on studying pronunciation? I'm interested in learning more.
1 minute ago I looked at the best time
Great, now I gotta watch this video instead of studying
Hoorayyyyy
I get why the guys here don't want to go into it. But ReligionforBreakfast has a good vid on State Shintoisim from WWII.
we need an episode with your faces, i want to see if my head cannon on you two is remotely close
Wow. And I thought that Greco-Roman mythology had some f*cked-up stuff. Just... wow.
Does anyone else feel like the audio is sped up?
Once again, it has been awhile 😂
For the Emperor!
13 minutes in and the story still hasn’t started
Gotta get thru citing those 2 sources!
Welcome to histocrat lmao
Ohh Japanese mythology!
Get sum!!!!!!
1:26:07 SUKUNA?!
Nope not the same one haha. They're talking about Sukunabikona, kami of hot springs. The Ryomen-Sukuna which the JJK character is based on does appear in the Nihon-Shoki, but isn't discussed in this video 😅
What is "mythic ancient logics"?
Imagine if there is no writing, what would be "knowledge" or "logic" then..? Probably speech with like weird modifiers, so the finno-uralic languages. Then you start looking at the haplogroups and look at parallels from tocharian ABC, where one had cases that only still exist in this language family. Like the indo aryan wtf ever, then imagine if there was still a group of people self seggregating, them having distinct "pagan" religions, and the other correlation and cognates to ahura mazda.... Like a cult of a bull skull type of, anyway after that they housed attila, and ghengis... Later adopting the name of "muhammed" or "moxommod" the southern one without the cases, and the above one kinda staying "aryan pure", being them finnic populus...(untill today)
Buddhism with its symbols being first on birch bark "parchment"... The f'd thing is is that, all this is oral tradition, that is next to extinction. The finnish language is neutered proto finnic, which was 'the shite'
But yea Saami noeda, and other "Jotun", like Väinämöinen. "mytologica fennica" in swedish the oldest book, like translate it to english its great, you'll love it.
guys i love mythology and i tried to listen to this but twelve minutes in and you haven't started yet. you just can't do that to people man. I wanted to get into this. but you haven't said a single thing yet.
you just said, "if anybody is familiar with the use of cuneiform" and you haven't even talked about Amaterasu yet... please review your process. it's fine to do in-depth videos on subjects like this, but bloody hell, you got to get started when the video starts!
@@DavidLightbringerNo
It was a creation myth aimed at a sector of domain, on demand¡‽!&@£
The way you two talk about capitalism is sus
Sheesh you guys don't even start talking about the subject until 7 after 7 minutes in - and even then you don't even really talk about the subject. Sorry to be impatient; I guess your format isn't for me
The butchering of the names is simply too much. Why don,t you put a minimum of effort into this.
You should focus more on the historic stuff,myths suck ass