Do We Need Dual-Crown Forks?! Looking At The New Formula Belva Suspension | GMBN Tech Show 326
Vložit
- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- In this week's GMBN Tech Show, Owen Coutts and Anna Cipullo discuss whether we really need Dual Crown forks in Enduro. In the rest of the show, we look at some new chainrings from O-Chain, some affordable carbon wheels and your usual favourites including this week’s Quiz question and much more!
💻 Submit Top Mods, Bike Caves, Rewinds and more to us 👉 upload.gmbn.com/tech
⏱️ Timestamps ⏱️
00:00 - Welcome Back To Another GMBN Tech Show!
00:18 - Topic | Formula’s New Belva Dual Crown Enduro Fork
06:29 - News | New O-Chain Chainrings | New RaceFace Carbon Wheel Set | Limited Edition Canyon Lux | New Park Tool Kit | New Sweet Protection Helmets
13:56 - Quiz
15:20 - Retro Rewind
17:51 - Comments
Useful Links:
🛍 NEW MTB Bike Maintenance Book 👉 gmbn.eu/MTBMaintenanceBook
Sign-up to our newsletter 👉 gmbn.eu/newsletter
Should dual crown forks be used in Enduro? Share your thoughts in the comments below! 👇
Watch more on GMBN Tech...
📹 How The SPD Changed Mountain Biking 👉 • How The SPD Changed Mo...
📹 Watch our Editor’s Choice Playlist 👉 gmbn.tech/editorschoice
📹 Watch our weekly show 👉 gmbn.tech/GMBNTechShow
#gmbntech #gmbn #mtb #mountainbiking
The Global Mountain Bike Network (GMBN) is the world’s largest and fastest-growing online mountain bike channel and community - and your destination for the best mountain bike content in the world.
GMBN is dedicated to inspiring and unlocking your riding potential. Our videos cater to fans of every mountain bike discipline: from mile-munching cross-country (XC) riders, through adrenaline-fuelled dirt jumpers, gravity-hungry downhillers or aspiring enduro racers, and beyond.
Every day of every month, our ex-pro presenting team are on hand to entertain and inspire you while also providing a uniquely qualified insight into the world of mountain biking. Every week we deliver original daily videos that include:
Adventurous and entertaining features
Mountain bike skills coaching
Technical advice and guidance
Mechanical know-how to keep you rolling
A place for the riding community with our weekly Dirt Shed Show
Thanks to our sponsors:
Canyon Bikes: gmbn.eu/Canyon
Propain Bikes: gmbn.eu/Propain
Orbea Bikes: gmbn.eu/Orbea
Park Tool: gmbn.eu/ParkTool
Smith Helmets & Eyewear: gmbn.eu/Smith
Crankbrothers Pedals: gmbn.eu/crankbros
Shimano Footwear: gmbn.eu/ShimanoShoes
Ergon: gmbn.eu/ergon
Vittoria Tires: gmbn.eu/Vittoria
Reynolds wheels: gmbn.eu/Reynolds
FSA: gmbn.eu/fsa
Topeak: gmbn.eu/topeak
Garmin: gmbn.eu/Garmin
Peaty's Products: gmbn.eu/Peatys
Worx Power Tools: gmbn.eu/Worx
CamelBak: gmbn.eu/CamelBak
Watch our sister channels:
Global Mountain Bike Network - / gmbn
Electric Mountain Bike Network - / embn
Global Cycling Network - / gcn
GCN Tech - / gcntech
GCN Racing - / gcnracing
Global Triathlon Network - / gtn
GMBN Racing - gmbn.eu/GMBNracing
GCN Italia - / gcnitalia
GCN en Espanol - / gcnenespanol
GCN auf Deutsch - / gcnaufdeutsch
GCN en Francais - / gcnenfrancais
GCN Training - / gcntraining - Sport
Can you see dual crown Enduro forks taking off? 🧐 Let us know your thoughts 👇
As a trend I surely see it taking off, seriously props for Formula to be first to market it was inevitable...
Been running dual crowns for years on my enduro bike 😂
Not only the junior t but did specialized not also run their own triple on the original specialized enduro ?
@@LaurentiusTriariusNOT first to market by a long shot.
The problem is when turning tight turns are impossible, especially when climbing. I think 180mm is good but they should have forks that the travel adjustments go from 160mm to 190mm single crown like a 40 Fox or 40 Rock Shock. Some bikes already have adjustable travel on the go. Hannah said she thinks future bikes the geometry will be adjustable, I think the same plus that would make it possible to buy 1 bike and use it for everything. Even letting customers choose longer or shorter chainstays or buy a second 1 to change how our bikes can perform 😅
I always though "triple clamp" refers to the crown, clamping on three tubes: steerer and two stanchions
Correct
It does. When you buy a set of 'triple clamps' for a motorcycle, it is referring to the steer tube clamping assembly, not the actual forks themselves.
@@jmo2752 thank you! So I believe Anna got it confused with double/tripple _bridge_ notation
It does lol.
A normal fork then would also be a triple clamp. Right?
Tripple Clamp refers to the fact that the crown has three points of “clamping” contact; the steerer tube and each fork leg and not the wheel interface. so this new fork has two triple clamps. Term comes from the MC world where they are also referred to as triple trees.
The future has been out for me, I've been running a Fox 40 on my mondraker Dune. I shortened the airshaft so I have 170mm travel. I also made bushings so I can run the 15mm Fox bolt. I also bought stanchions from a 26" tube and retrofitted it to my 2018 Fox 40. That way I can lower the stack and not have the tubes poking out almost 2"m oput of the clamp on top.
That’s awesome! I would love to see it and all the engineering behind it!
Guys let's not beat it around the bush, I think we can all agree that dual crown forks look by far the best so why not an Enduro version to make your bike look more bad ass
I’ve been running Mojo Rising Morc36 on my enduro for three years. They are dual crown upgrade to a 160 travel fox 36.
Its an excellent setup in my Kingdom Bike Void Mountain.
As a gearbox rider, one of the negative tradeoffs has long been too much slack in the drivetrain engagement. I guess it’s now a positive thing… a built in O Chain. 😂
On all other forks, I normally don't really feel any difference between the compression (HSC/LSC) settings. But changing a CTS on my Thirty5 (the first Formula fork) I did notice a huge difference.
On affordable bikes I recently built a carbon frame enduro rig,fox grip 2, and hope brakes, cheaper microshift drivetrain, but the point is it all cost around 1.5k and that was with a bit of patience waiting for second hand parts to pop up, but basically a bike can be built for cheap with high end parts as long as they're a couple of years old.
1:08 I have that exact same marzocchi 888 fork in my collection, it feels amazing
Brand new Slayer with a dual crown here. Absolutely love it.
Yeah that formula fork looks awesome! I'm not going to buy one as I tend to buy a bike with a decent oe fork and stick with it for budget reasons but I've always thought that a light weight dual crown makes a whole lot of sense for stability. Also how good is that easy tuning!
The new formula fork is pretty similar to the older lower end offerings from marzocchi. Similar to the Junior T and 888 in terms of 35mm stanchion. Besides the 10mm difference. The rockshox boxxer can be run in a 180mm config. Looking at what Push Industries have been predicting as the quest for stiffness in the existing standards we have today. Integrating a tapered steerer and dual crown rather than figuring out how to make a single crown enduro fork even stiffer in the same chassis.
I have one of those Marz 888 170mm on my 160mm e-bike and it works great. Super stiff and super plush. These are 35mm Dual crown forks, same as their 200mm one but with lower travel.
I love the pro bike check please do more!
A nice advantage with dual crown forks is that you don't have to align the stem. I have a tool for it so can align it on regular set up. But not having to is nice.
#quiz - Formula is based in Italy. I'm italian, i can't miss that😄
Anna and Owen hi, remember the 90s, rock shox had SID and Judy triple clamp, y still have a Judy XL on my 90s bike, cheers
I had a Sid XL it was only 3 pounds like 0.5 pounds heavier than the carbon Sid that came out the year after 😂 pretty impressive, it wasn't that good I had it converted to spring along with a single crown Sid in 2002 (maybe 2004 not sure) ...
Had a Judy Xl on my FSR ground control extreme. What a bike that was
Another benefit of a dual-crown fork over a long-travel single crown fork is that typically the lower crown does not need to be as thick - so you can get more travel for the same stack height... so a potential benefit on a bike being used for [mixed] enduro riding, rather than purely downhill.
Reading the loan wolf first look at this fork, for the same axle crown you get 10 more millimeters of travel
I used to run junior t's as a trail fork a long time ago , was a great fork , tjos seems like same deal just much newer
Will the triple clamp forks be allowed on most bikes or will bike manufacturers not warranty the frame ..??
The price of the Race Face Era wheel set is not 774$, thats only the front wheel, the set cost 1599$.
Unfortunately. I thought a set of carbon wheels was closer to reality than they are.
So did I bro, so did I @@kevdad3587
Not sure if they're the future but I personally dig it. I've considered a Fox 40 or Manitou Dorado for my enduro bike. This would be so much easier to use. No headset adapters or new hubs.
Yeah. I think it's a good idea because on basically all my forks, the CSU is the only problem that I have
Still have my 2007 Enduro w an E150 dual crown. That fork is really stiff laterally and light w 35 mm stanchions up the the bars.
Holding out for a Z1 Bomber Coil Dual crown that fits 29ers 😄
I'm keen on the Belva forks for my Spire, dual crown rated headtube and purple lowers to match my frame, perfect match!
That would look clean 🧼 Make sure to send in some pictures if you do decide to go for it!
Dual triple clamp inverted with carbon uppers! Oh, and Vynil sticker that says you can put it on an electric bicycle, without getting sued (by the Vynil sticker company).
Formula is based in Italy. I used to have Formula Oro K18 brakes on my bike. They were such a nightmare to use and maintain, that even my fellow mechanic refused to bleed them and sold me Shimano brakes instead, which turned out to be the best move ever.
Formula Cura 4 are easy to bleed, at least for me, if you can bleed Shimano you can bleed these. But the bushing on the lever wears in less than 400km, so got play and dead throw. But I already suspected it might be an issue. It turned out to be. But I bought RgTec levers, they got bearings, but had to wet sand the original pin to get it to fit, a bit of sanding and test fit and repeat until it fit all the way trough.
For some reason front caliper had to be rebuilt quite quickly as it leaked and eventually pistons got stuck, they would not retract, were trouble to remove them, had to try several times eventually I got them out. The seals were deformed.
Rear was fine, but had worn bleed port o-ring, let a tiny bit of air, in so swapped it. but was bled maybe 5 or 6 times.
Front was only bled once before it the o ring was shredded.
#gmbntech I have some shimano 4 pot brakes that started to fade at the end of last season. Spring is here so I went to bleed them and found 4 of the pistons wouldn’t retract. I removed them with air and found the they were all broken to pieces inside. What do I do.
New slx calipers are around $50 by themselves. Ppl everywhere say broken shimano calipers aren’t serviceable
Edit: i see there are now aftermarket pistons available online for like $20 a set. You could try your luck with that, but you risk them leaking if u do it wrong
@gmbntech Think you may have the Raceface wheel price incorrect for the UK! The £799 is for a front wheel only. £850 for rear.
Triple clamps are the motorcycle standard name for that type of front end where as Dual Crown are specific to mountain bikes bacuase that is the biggest difference, but since there is so much overlap I believe that's why we use both🤷♂️
This is long overdue, Rulezman suspension has an amazing in depth video converting a dorado for enduro in 2020. Increasing stanchion diameter, to increase stiffness makes very little sense. The flex (and creaking) is the stanchion crown interface. Unless you’re doing bar spins, I see no downside.
#askgmbntech Guys, of topic, but what ever happened to Issac? I watch all GMBN vids and don't recall hearing anything about him leaving!
#askgmbntech any idea why my high speed compression dial keeps turning without stopping? Unable to set any clicks on my Zeb ultimate.😩 also, no need for Ochain on an ebike the chainring will rotate backwards without affecting the cranks!
Anyone remember the RS Judy XL from 1997ish? Dual crown and 100mm of travel. For me it was the ultimate freeride fork, if you couldnt afford a Marzocchi (also me).
Dual crown fork for enduro bikes are not needed.. whats wrong with lyrik, zebs , fox 36/38s. Gonna be a pain in the arse pedaling wise too.
The bigger and heavier 38mm forks didn't actually address the flex issue because the flex is in the CSU. This addresses that. It also has a lockout switch idk if you've actually looked at it.
Seems like a decent trade off for more strength and no fussy bits to make the system less reliable.
are you guys coming back to california for sea otter
i would love an EFC paint scheme
#askgmbntech are there seats with a spring to help with physical recovery? I watched the Xing Ping seat in the GMBN channel some time ago, and I wonder if there are good seats similar to that one. I fell on my butt a couple of weeks ago and I really hurt my coccyx, I had to stop cycling altogether :/ and I'm not sure when I will be able to comeback and sit comfortably to start riding again.
A Crown is technically a Triple Clamp. A crown could be argued to be a double clamp, I guess too.
It refers to how many surfaces are being clamped.
Personally would get a dual crown just because I am tired of creaking csu... I went thru 3 zeb csus and all develop csu creaking after 3 months of riding...
Tell me how an Ochain can do stuff on an ebike that already has freewheels front and back.
#quiz formula is from Italy 🇮🇹
I don't think the question is "Do we need a dual crown enduro fork", but do we want the stiffness of a 38mm station without the extra weight.
Actually rather still, I think it's "do we want increased fore-aft stiffness rather than radial stiffness in all our forks" and the answer to that is yes in all cases. A dual crown is one solution that can make sense for enduro. Upside down lowers also works. A combination is even better
35mm dual crown is stiffer than 38mm single crown. Heck look up old marzocchi dual crown 35mm were as strong as 40mm fox dual crown back in the day. It’s all about the design and a dual crown 35mm will be stronger than any single crown design.
MRP has been manufacturing dual crown forks for enduro bikes since 2019 already....But I think the market doesnt have the space for it yet.
The retro-style Manitou forks would look great on the Yo Eddy (yes, need to upload pics, BUT UPLOADER BROKEN!), but tapered steerer doesn't work for retro-rides. Manitou or Pace for the retro vibes.
You can ride a tapered 1,5 inch fork in a straight 1 1/8 steerer if you use an external cup on the bottom side and a internal one on top. Brands like Starling do this from factory on.
If the steering tube is just 1 inch it don't work of course.
I have a boxxer on my kenevo and I absolutely love it
Oh,something for heavyer riders? Maybe❤
#quiz formula Is an italian company, i have a formula selva s and It Is freaking awesome, but i can see and sometimes feel that It has a lot of wobble expecially on Little impacts at low Speed, in part Is due tu formula's design choice (on formula site they Say it Is ment to Flex like that) and in part Is due to my fork being the 180 mm travel version, wich Is quite a lot for a single crown 35 mm stanchion fork
I like the idea of a dual crown on an enduro bike. Weight remains the same, but stiffness, suspension and dial capabilities are better, along with increased longevity. Only disadvantage would be reduced turning radius.
It would be interesting to see if they are used in any races this year 🤔 But the reduced turning radius may be tricky for the racers in the tighter sections!
@@gmbntech True, mobility is a major drawback. In any case I'm looking forward to this tech trickling down to the more affordable sector.
A lot of the urban downhill racers will use a enduro frame with a downhill (double crown not triple crown). The reason it give you the advantage of pedaling. Downhill bikes are terrible on ANY type uphill they are made to pedal downhill and go fast. With the enduro frame you give yourself an advantage uphill and yet still have the cush of a downhill fork. There was a post within the last week of a downhill fork on a hardtail. I ride a Marin San Quentin
We need dual crown upside down forks like a modern shiver
Take a look at the Manitou Dorado forks, we have tried them on a eBike over on EMBN 👉 czcams.com/video/AVPGRX89BzY/video.html
Whatever happened to Isaac?
#quiz I swear Formula are Italian? Yea sounds right.
BRING BACK THE DUAL CROWN XC FORK
OG LEFTY 4 LYFE
Italy
Bravo formula can't wait for this trend to catch up with Fauxduro bros and pick up Zeb's and 38's for peanuts 😂
Formula based in Italy
Isaac! Isaaaaaaac! where are youuuuu...!? ye havn't got young Isaac hidden away on the tech channel have you..?
#quiz formula is from italy
Affordable is being able to buy a bike comfortably, with it not impacting on your savings and out goings....If when you get it home you end up sitting in the corner every morning looking at it, sobbing and going "How much did I just spend!!!", you've spent above your means.. 🙂
They need to bring back stainless steel stanchions😅
Italia.
Smaller diameter, lighter but stiffer, owner tunable damping plus dual crowns looks the best. Whats not to like.
Formule comes from Italië
The ZEB that came on my S-Works Enduro LTD is more than enough fork.
The fact is this is nothing new. My 2000 Specialized FSR BIGHIT had Marzocchi Jr T triples. It was sold as a freerider. Basically, it was replaced by the S Brand enduro. Would I use it? Yes, because it's so much more stable. If the price is right, I'm in.
Do we need for Trail riding? No, definitely no. For Enduro, well probably for racing and not in all scenarios.
Maybe bike manufacturers should make single crown fork with better i.e. more robust crown/steerer connection.
Having a none dh fork is just for tricks, in this way we can have as stiff fork lighter...
#quiz Italyyyyyy ❤
you should also think about that many kids are the ones that are buying the more affordable bikes, but can a kid affort a 4800£ bike?
formula is based in italy
Can we have a GMBN Tech presenters game of BIKE please? And maybe a game of TECH in the workshop? 🤘❤️🌈🕊️🌍
#quiz formula is italian🤌
Are nukeproof coming back!? 😫😪
#quiz - Formula are Italian and came from the motorcycle brand AIM (and I am sure I answer these questions first and everyone just copies my answers...)
I mean, if a “down country” bike can exist, I don’t see why this fork can’t. Either it sells or it doesn’t.
I don't need them 'cause i already have them :D
Formula is Based in Italy.
You don't have uploads because your upload page is out of order
Formula is from italy
“You can’t triple clamp a double crown….”
No we do not. This is cope for the inability to change geometry each fall and for fear of not selling the warehouses of overstock.
E-Bikes need dual crown
We have tried this over on EMBN 👉 czcams.com/video/AVPGRX89BzY/video.html
When you realise the whole show is an advert.
You can’t define “affordable” Ferrari’s are affordable to billionaires. A $3000 mtb is affordable to me but not to others. You could say ‘affordable’ is like ‘beauty’ being in the eye of the beholder 😊
Some people can't spend $200 on a bike. This channel works in the context of typical mountain bikers.
Downduro
Kind of tired of being told by the bike industry that the prices aren't high.. they're high because there are enough doctors and lawyers out there willing to spend too much, but it surely makes the barrier to entry more difficult. 2 grand for an 'entry level's new bike is a ton to someone like myself, and even if I can afford it I'm almost be too afraid to ride it so I don't break it. The bikes I can afford I'm too afraid to ride because I'm too afraid it'll break me, and the bikes Im supposed to ride I'm afraid I'll break them.. but MTB is supposed to be fun and relaxing? Hmm.
Everything isn't for everyone. There are definitely still $600 mountain bikes from the big brands. Nobody is making you spend $2000
@@veganpotterthevegan sure but it probably won't have a dropper post, and there are far less $600 bikes than 5k bikes. Very strange to defend high prices NGL
@@veganpotterthevegan Honestly why would you defend high prices, what do you have to gain from it?
@@veganpotterthevegan and actually just screw you. Everything isn't for everyone? What a weird way of saying you don't want poor people on your trails.
@brandonfields5720 then add a dropper post when you have the money. I have a $5000 and $8000 mountain bike and neither have a dropper post. Everyone doesn't get everything they want at the price they want and you need to change your expectations. These are all unnecessary toys, we don't need them at all. We're not talking about access to clean water and Healthcare here
that fork cost same as a bike
The most annoying guy on CZcams
formula is based in italy