3D coat vs Zbrush sculpting. which is better? 2023. Pt1
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2022
- Every newbie would have to deal with either 3Dcoat or blender after they get to realize the price point for Zbrush. haha, it's funny.
The final decision would depend on how beast you can run on the software and how far you are willing to go with your career choice.
both hobbyists and most pros choose blender
Others who want to get into 3D studios with their skills would have to look at zbrush or 3d coat.
Each of these software are able to work great with every 3D modeling program without any struggle.
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#zbrush #3dcoat #blender #sculpting - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I've been using ZBrush for 22 years and 3DCoat for 13. Here are my observations
ZBrush
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Strengths:
- Sculpt subtools with 200mil+ polys. It's TECHNICALLY possible to pass 1Bil polys with micropoly, but there are some IRL practical "gotchas".
- Vector Displacement Maps (VDM) allow you to paint and reuse complex details via textures. Think of VDM as a next gen version of height maps that work in a three dimensions
- GoZ allows you to quickly move your model back and forth between ZBrush and your regular app (eg. Maya, Blender, etc.). This allows you to seamlessly makeedits to the underlying poly cage and transfer it to ZBrush or sculpt the model in ZB and send it back to Maya or Blender with the push of a button.
- Lots of ways to start any given model. Base Mesh. ZSphere. Shadowbox. Constructive Solid Geometry (CSG). Poly modeling
- ZRemesher. Quick retopo with clean topology at the click of a button.
- Lots of tutorials and other training material online and offline.
- Lots of brushes. Easily beyond the 30 that the OP states.
Weaknesses:
- TOO MANY brushes. Look. Let's face it. IRL, you don't need that many brushes to get the job done. Most artists will probably stick to 9 or 10 brushes and that's it. ZBrush offers more brushes than 3DCoat, but both apps have all of the most used brushes in common. With a few exceptions, most of those extra brushes in ZBrush are either variations on a theme or just filler. ZBrush has so many brushes that their brush menu has become over stuffed with each version.
- The UI/UX is bloated and dated. When ZBrush came out in 1999, it was a 2.5D app targeted primarily at traditional artists looking for that quasi-3D look. As such, the UI was very non-traditional and quirky. However, over time, ZBrush gained more and more true 3D functionality and improved sculpting tools. Despite that, it held onto this super odd UI. With each new version, it just got clunkier and more complex. It's not a hard UI to learn, but it feels old and convoluted. They've attempted to clean things up over the years, but all that's accomplished is that you now have to hunt for some features in these nested sub-menu roll outs. That makes the UX very unintuitive at times. Leave the app for a few weeks (eg. vacation) and you might find yourself struggling to remember where that rarely used feature you need is buried.
- They're now owned by MAXON. Those of you/us who have been getting free updates for years will now have to pay going forward. Also, if they follow MAXON's pattern, expect perpetual licenses to eventually disappear at some point. They say "no", but when was the last time you trusted a big corporation?
- TOO MANY ways to start a new model and not all of them are implemented well. Yes. You can start a model with ZSpheres. However, you won't always want to. It's dated/old system that is sometimes pretty broken. There are better ways. Yes. Yes. You can poly model. However, ZBrush's poly modeling tools lag behind dedicated modelers like Silo or suite apps like Blender and Maya. ZBrush has a lot of way to create base meshes, but - much like everything else in ZBrush - they're often handled in this quirky fashion just for the sake of being quirky. You're usually just better off starting a base mesh somewhere else and then importing it.
- Manual retopology is clunky - even with the more recent addition of poly tools.
3DCoat
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Strengths:
- Voxels. Sculpt without having worry about topology.
- Strong UV tools
- Great painting tools that allow you to give your model that handpainted or PBR look. That makes 3DCoat a solid and reliable alternative to Substance Painter
- Dedicated poly modeling tools that work just as you would expect them to in any other poly app.
- Fantastic manual retopology tools. Easy to use and very powerful.
- A more traditional UI/UX that has been updated and cleaned up starting with the v2021 release.
- The development betas are updated almost every day and often include new features as well as bug fixes. 3DCoat v2021/v2022 is way more stable now than the old v4 series.
- Pilgway's CZcams channel has MANY quality tutorials on just about every feature.
Weaknesses:
- Auto retopology is good, but no doesn't produce results as clean or natural as ZBrush's ZRemesher feature. A workaround? Use Blender (or any other app) that has the paid Quad Remesher addon. Exoside's Quad Remesher is made by one of the programmers behind ZRemesher. It does the same thing and just as well, if not better and faster.
- The UI has been cleaned up, but it's still messy in places.
- Users making the transition from ZBrush to 3DCoat will get frustrated early on thanks to a lack of 3rd party 3DCoat specific tutorials. For example, masking exists in 3DCoat, but new users might not find it since it's called something else.
- 3DCoat's app bridge is buggy and by no means as good as ZBrush's GoZ. You're often just better off manually exporting and importing meshes back and forth between Maya/Blender and 3DCoat.
- 3DCoat has a node-based material creation system that aims to do what Substance Designer does, but it's not easy (for newbies) to find and still very much in an alpha state. Definitely not production ready yet.
NOTES
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- Both apps have dynamic topology that allows you to sculpt in new poly detail only where you need it. This allows you to create meshes with a lot of detail, but with the least polys required.
- Sculpting is sculpting wherever you go. Since the both share all of the key brushes in common, moving from one app to the other really only comes down to UI.
- ZBrush (generally) requires an internet connection for (de)activation. 3DCoat really only goes online to check for updates. You can activate your 3DC totally offline via license file. Convenient if you don't have internet or have a shaky connection.
- While ZBrush can work with poly counts past 100mil, IRL, you'll almost never need that many. At some point, you reach 1:1 poly to pixel ratio and anything more won't be seen. Plus, if your target medium is real-time (ie. games) then you'll always retopo to some poly detail MUCH lower than those multi-million counts. This is why many users still sculpt in Blender despite the fact that sculpting gets too laggy past 25mil polys. Overall, ZBrush may have more poly pushing power, but it's pretty meaningless in the real world.
- ZBrush performance is mostly dictated by CPU speed and RAM. Very few features are GPU accelerated. How they accomplish those high poly counts comes down to the pixol and how it represents the canvas. 3DCoat is much more dependent on GPU. Expect greater gains if, for example, you jump from a GTX 1080 to RTX 3080. In ZBrush, making that same change in cards really won't matter.
uh, i love these details too much. thanks alot
Thank you very much for this addendum to an already excellent video. Honestly, worthy of a video in its own right if you were ever inclined.
This last comment I'd introduce as advantage for Zbrush. Any worklaptop can handle Zbrush just fine since it's 2.5d software. The need for a GPU is a major disadvantage for some users. Especially in these times. It can easily differ the cost of your starting setup by 2-3 times of simple GPU ingegrated laptop
@Dark Mage When ZBrush was conceived 20-something years ago, it was groundbreaking. Nobody was doing digital sculpting in any real, significant way and certain not at a ZBrush level of of performance. The "strange" workflow isn't strange per se, but is more reflective of their status as pioneers. Consequently, Pixologic was making it all up as they went along. Mistakes made in 2002 have carried forward to 2022. Hazard of being a trailblazer.
The REAL problem with ZBrush is that the devs don't know how to deprecate or retire old features; the logic being that longtime users might still rely on them. So, as new features get introduced, they don't stand as as much as they get added to the clutter. That's why ZBrush has a bazillion conceptually redundant brushes and a half dozen ways to accomplish any given task.
And that is where 3DCoat differs. Andrew and his team DO retire or replace old/outdated features from time to time. This means that the 3DCoat interface may be dense, but it's not dense AND obscenely nested like ZBrush's. Pixologic's tactic of UI organization amounts to sweeping the ugly under the rug, under a rug... under a rug. It's a cruel sort of feature hoarding. (I can't tell you the last time I needed to retopo with ZSpheres; Cumbersome, clunky, buggy, outdated, and not nearly as foolproof as Pixologic wanted us to believe.)
FWIW, if you ever intend on doing CG professionally then your opinion on ZBrush is moot. As the industry standard, you'll be asked to use it and know it at a high level whether you love it or not. You won't have a say in the matter, no matter how much you love 3DCoat. Same thing if you're a Blender user in an industry where 90% of the jobs are for Maya users.
I wouldn't say that 3DCoat has a small learning curve. It's still a complex piece of kit. 3DCoat just appeals to a different mindset, one which is much more in line with UI/UX found in the 3D suite apps. ZBrush was more of a boutique product appealing to traditional 2D artists looking to add depth to their paintings. Different way of thinking and looking at the problem.
Overall, it's just UI. Pointless to groan over it. The core features, brushes and essential workflow are largely the same in ZBrush as they are in 3DCoat or Blender's sculpt mode. Know how to sculpt in one app? Great. Just learn the nuances, difference of the new UI and you'll adapt just fine. Finding common ground between the two apps means that you'll find success. Apps are just a means to an end and not the end itself.
thank you for sharing! I'm brand new to sculpting.
I got hooked on 3D Coat since the start and they just implemented Live Boolean operations which is crazy. My weapons are 3D Coat Sculpting, Plasticity 3D to Blender visa versa. And sometimes Quixel. I beta tested Zbrush when it first hit the market, same with Rhino 3D and Lightwave.
Love your videos, hope your channel grows plenty! :)
I love how you crack jokes without breaking a smile😁 your explanations are really great.
Yeah. That whole too many women thing killed me. :)
Used both, Zbrush without a doubt is better for sculpting. 3D coat without a doubt is better for texturing. Brother you need to sort out that audio. I actually watched this on mute with captions instead. Audio is always the highest priority for videos lol
I have no idea what this guy is talking about. I'm a mod in the official 3D-Coat forum and the only people we block are spammers. Maybe once did I see someone get blocked for harassing outer members.
Great, what I read in the beginning of the videos came in from a beginner who claimed to have faced some challenges while a part of 3d coat forum.
The main purpose of this video was to pick out the main strength of 3d coat so people would know what the software is capable of. I personally think people should focus more on what they can achieve with a software, rather than being emotional about what they went through on a particular forum.
I personally had a convo with the commenter and apparently he had stopped using 3d coat because of the forum issue. We spoke for a while and he agreed to go back to 3d coat. His main goal was to use 3dcoat for uv unwrapping since he was a blender user.
Dude is now chilling while unwrapping with 3d coat.
Am not the bad guy here for addressing it.
Cheers🍔
Thank you so much for clarify between Gl, Dx, and simple option for ed coat. I love your explanation
It should probably be noted that GL is now the default rendering API. This is a good thing overall since DirectX is made by Microsoft and, thus, tied to Windows. The OpenGL API is 30 years old exists on nearly every platform including Windows, OSX, Linux, and even consoles. For the developers, this makes tracking down certain problems across platforms much easier since it's one unified spec.
Also, whereas MS might one day replace or deprecate DX with something newer, OpenGL won't EVER go away. Like... EVER. Seriously. Even with Vulkan as its (potential) quasi-replacement. OpenGL is like the graphics API equivalent of Doom; If hardware exists, so too does an implementation OpenGL. It's ubiquitous thanks to a 30 year history and being so easy to program with.
Thank you, I am a 3d coat user, I probably should have clarified that the coat copes very well with retopology and texturing of models, which makes its price even more interesting. Although of course, as a sculptor, the same Zbrush is much more convenient for heavy models.
I see serious dedication here. Videos could be better (audio ), but its infinite better than so many videos - I really like well thought construction.
Lucky for me, I have no issues (bigger one) with stability of zbrush, so maybe deep de-installation if that possible? For ordinary work in my case its really hard to crash, when I work with 80mln single subtool - I expect things might crash, but lucky most of time everything goes fine.
thaks for the feedback, i really appreciate it. sound would be great next time.
Oh Man I learned lots here. I own 3D Coat and was to upgrade it and it is cheaper than ZBrush. Thanks Bud ;- )
Yeah you made the right move
Wow, you got details. Thanks for the 3d coat clarification. I dont think 3d coat is doing much to push the software. Very good software with poor support.
Not poor support. Just poor marketing. They're mostly a word of mouth sort of deal, which makes it hard for them to gain traction in larger studios. However, with MAXON having bought out Pixologic, MANY users are looking to make the switch.
MAXON has acquired a bunch of apps and companies over the past few years and that has really left a sour taste in end users' mouths. Many don't like the hard push toward subscriptions or the lackluster way apps like Redshift have been handled. Many people fear that the same sort of pattern will end up plaguing ZBrush.
I can't blame these users for feeling this way. After all, weeks after touting Pixologic's 20+ year streak of giving free updates, MAXON comes along and says, "Yeah. Nevermind that. The gravy train is over." Current ZB users are pretty skeptical atm. Low trust level.
As far as support goes, Pilgway does an AMAZING job of supporting the app. 3DCoat is one of these apps that is in perpetual beta. It's constantly being developed. They release a new beta just about every other day that includes bug fixes and new features. Pilgway is VERY responsive when it comes to user input and complaints. They'll respond to you, pretty much the same day, whether you're on their official forum or on their Discord.
What 3DCoat really needs is a better marketing team. There's a lot of good work being made with the app, but Pilgway's team does a poor job of promoting 3DCoat with it. (Not really an issue of team size since, reportedly, ZBrush's team is tiny too. Pixo/Maxon just self-promotes better.) Pilgway is more concerned with development than self-promotion, which is s shame since 3DC is such a good app.
I love ZBrush because it has got perfect code and logic There. I dont know 3D coat much well. I like Renderman There in 3D Coat. For me its Just one sculpting sw where i feel great, so ZBrush. But it doesnt depend on sw you use. For sure. There are Just tools for People
You are absolutely right.
Bro please improve your audio recording quality, sometimes
it becomes difficult to understand properly what you're saying...
Thanks for the video Mate, I use Linux, not Winblows, so it's either Blender or 3D Coat for me, 3D Coat 2022 just got released, I am getting better and better at it, but the interface is a bit odd, and it took me a while to figure out the different types of models for each section, but I love it, very stable as you said, cheaper than ZB, and it offers much more, think of it as a mix of ZB and Painter, with some nifty modelling tools, like the Kitbash and the spline modelling tools, plus it has a nice render engine!
Haha, winblows! Thats funny. I tried using Linux sometime ago but I couldn't deal with them not having access to many apps. At least I tried but it wasn't for me, though I loved everything about it.
@@GearSolid Yeah, no ZBrush in Windows, but also no viruses to speak of, so no antivirus, no registry that gets bugged up, much faster and easier to maintain than Windows, it's 100% free, much easier to customize than Windows, and so on, but yeah, more apps on Windows side!
Uh man, I also felt caged since none of my colleagues used it. I felt lonely on the Linux planet. But it's so beautiful. I thought windows 11 would copy something like that but windows 11 is still shitty.
I REFUSE to go back to windows... Houdini, Blender, Substance, Krita and now 3Dcoat. kubuntu - lowlatency kernel for audio stuff in Reaper.
There are lots and lots of tutorials here in YT for 3dcoat you'll just have to look for em. 3dcoat is not a pushover neither, it's just as powerful as any program can get. Textura is very promising too, with proper development, it can challenge even that giant Adobe-Substance Painter. Unfortunately, it has very little following. Zbrush on the other hand has much bigger following, communities and tutorials. You see em just about everywhere just as Blender is.
@wise gramps as a hobbyist, 3dCoat is great. It is the complete package like Blender. Sculpting, modeling, retopo, PBR texturing, UV unwrapping, and rendering. In my humble opinion, 3DC is way cheaper, better in hard surface than ZB. Zbrush on the the other hand, is used as an industry standard, which specializes in sculpting and even low poly stuff. ZB is better in organic sculpting. Good luck bro... ✌️ btw, I'm currently using Textura, a modified 3DC which specializes on PBR texturing (only). I'm planning to buy it on the upcoming Black Frida(supposedly they have a yearly sale). And yes, Blender can definitely sculpt too, it actually is the Free alternative for these two 🤘
Wow their community sounds like Epics. Glad I never ran into them. For me, 3D coat was my choice because I was able to learn it in a couple days and z brush I never could even after weeks and weeks even months of trying.
Yeah zbrush takes a lot of studies before you can master and it's also complicated but the moment you get used to it, your workflow speeds up real quick. 3d can't is very easy to master but it takes a lot of ram if the voxels get heavy
Which software is better for making ornaments?
the one you're most proficient
the software doesnt create anything, you do
I stumbled upon 3D coat video and really loved it ...
but since my end goal is to look for a job...I should go for ZBRUSH right??
_also i know blender but no one wants to hire blender boi_
Skills are always considered first before the type of software you use is looked at .
If you are good at blender, you would get a job. You can learn whatever software they use while you are on the job
People get hired not because of the software they use, people are hired based on their skills.
I almost wrote your channel off because of how bad the audio is on some of your videos (far too distorted/loud), but I gotta say, the topics and the quality of content is great! Subscribed.
audio needs work
it`s different software, 3dcoat have voxel sculpting, it`s not the same
Yeaa that's what makes them different. Voxel vs polygonal sculpting
Great potencial, shitty interface. Low price is not an attractive for the industry. Make it right and price it accordingly.
BRO zBrush is leaps ahead in terms of intuitiveness, whenever I need a feature it's exactly where I presume it to be which alone made it so easy to use and create results right away which has a strong aftermath effect