How to solder grid style PCB / 555 PWM DC-motor driver (EEEL1-3)

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  • čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
  • 0:00 mechanical preparation
    4:39 soldering the bottom side (without comments)
    30:40 desolder hints and tips (solder sucker)
    32:40 desolder hints and tips (solder wick)
    33:15 assembling parts on the top side (without comments)
    48:56 simple test with DC motor
    Document is here: github.com/berred16/555-PWM-g...
    Update July 2019:
    Uses wire:
    Tinned or silver plated copper wire diameter 0,3mm (AWG 28)
    www.pollin.de/p/kupferdraht-v...
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 223

  • @andybutler6968
    @andybutler6968 Před 5 lety +84

    I don't comment often. THIS WAS THE BEST TUTORIAL I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR PERF BOARDS.

  • @Alx2672
    @Alx2672 Před rokem +1

    No smoke, burnt holes, everything stuck, no blobs, just the perfect amount. Great video.

  • @firstgear11382
    @firstgear11382 Před 11 měsíci +1

    I've watchted this video years ago and I still enjoy watching it 👍

  • @Nebulorum
    @Nebulorum Před 2 lety +5

    I saw this video years ago when I was beginning and the beauty of the technique stuck with me. Today I build some small breakouts based on what I remembered and was surety happy, But had to see this again, I now appreciate it even more. Best soldering for this kind of work out there. thanks a lot, on to more practice.

  • @JedrekVRoscoe
    @JedrekVRoscoe Před 3 lety +8

    I just spent most of today absolutely struggling to create trace lines with lead-free solder, and it was an absolute nightmare. Thank you for this!

    • @djmj12714
      @djmj12714 Před rokem +1

      I pretty much threw in the towel on lead-free solder. IMHO, 60/40 rosin flux core is the way to go!

  • @BernhardHofmann
    @BernhardHofmann Před 6 lety +18

    This is excellent! I'm new to this and I was looking for tips on how to solder on a perfboard. I saw quite a few videos before I found this gem. This is exactly what I was looking for. Such a tidy board, so neatly done with attention to detail. Wunderbar, toll gemacht!

  • @smooooth_
    @smooooth_ Před rokem +1

    This is such a great method for making traces on perfboard. Way cleaner and easier than any way I had tried doing it before. Got a chance to use it when I first saw this and it worked so well

  • @la77y8
    @la77y8 Před 5 lety +19

    I wish I'd seen this video 20 years ago.

  • @estring69
    @estring69 Před 3 lety +2

    So much craft and finesse to it. I never would have thought that. These prototype videos are so helpful.

    • @djmj12714
      @djmj12714 Před rokem

      I was thinking the same thing when he was wrapping the wire around the holes with a jewelers screwdriver, making it ready for subsequent connections!

  • @Alx2672
    @Alx2672 Před rokem

    All the other videos show you how to solder components, but none show you how to make connections between. Great job. Thank you.

  • @VitorVulcanoRossi
    @VitorVulcanoRossi Před 5 lety +17

    This is the cleanest method I've seen on youtube. Look forward to trying it!

  • @TheThickBloke
    @TheThickBloke Před 5 lety +9

    As many have already commented, thank you so much for taking the time to demonstrate your method of laying out your traces. Very helpful :-)

  • @viktorbozicevic6219
    @viktorbozicevic6219 Před 6 lety +4

    Appreciate the patience and tidiness of the whole soldering process, keep it up man!

  • @Aussie50InspiredDavidZ

    Watching you solder helps me relax and puts me to sleep. And that's a great thing when I worry and can't sleep at night. It's relaxing. By the way. THANK YOU. BEST single sided board soldering pcb hands down!!!

  • @remotecoderz
    @remotecoderz Před 5 lety

    Thank you for this video. I was searching youtube for a way to solder the "under side" of a perfboard to make the connections. You've brilliantly showed me how I need to approach development of my projects so I don't have to toss out all the perfboard I have.

  • @optimist55116
    @optimist55116 Před 7 lety +2

    Thank you. An excellent and very thorough tutorial on basic prototyping with these boards. I used to work in electronics (40 years ago) before these were available. Great effort!

  • @sarahmurphy5464
    @sarahmurphy5464 Před 7 lety +16

    Thank you so much for a detailed and well presented lesson! Learned so much.

  • @davidkennedy2555
    @davidkennedy2555 Před 6 lety +1

    Thanks for this... taught me several things I needed to know... specifically, how to lay out the wires for connections instead of using a board that was already laid out. SInce I am a newb at this, I had not yet thought of this. Thank you!

  • @francisli8807
    @francisli8807 Před 5 lety +1

    I have diy ele project for 40yrs and this is the first time I see making a PCB in this way. Interesting.

  • @junestorm
    @junestorm Před 4 lety

    Awesome tutorial. Best video on single hole perfboard soldering I have ever seen!

  • @IdShift
    @IdShift Před 4 lety +2

    The Bob Ross of circuit building. Look at those happy little ICs...

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 4 lety +1

      Thank you, HIHIHIHI

  • @aiden359
    @aiden359 Před 5 lety +17

    Just finished a small project with one of these boards in school. I wish I had seen this before haha

  • @karguy1720
    @karguy1720 Před 5 lety

    Thank you for posting this lesson. I am just starting to make circuit boards, and this will be most helpful.

  • @knark666
    @knark666 Před 5 lety +1

    I never knew you could slide the solder wick like that. Great video!

  • @clattereffect
    @clattereffect Před 4 lety +1

    nice vid on soldering grid PCB, I have a bunch of grid PCB's that I wanted to get started on and your vid provides good tips and instructions. A++

  • @MantisRay861
    @MantisRay861 Před 7 lety +13

    Bobby Dazzler. I've never seen traces laid out like that. So clean. That's right nice!

    • @faridwakim
      @faridwakim Před 7 lety +5

      MantisRay861 i spot an eevblog fan here. Well i guess bob's your uncle.

  • @Kimchi_Studios
    @Kimchi_Studios Před 3 lety +2

    Soldering ASMR.
    I learned a lot thanks!

  • @margmargou3329
    @margmargou3329 Před 4 lety

    Your video and "Veroroute" are just great! Thank You both!

  • @krjohnson29
    @krjohnson29 Před 4 lety +2

    Just got my board for a rather ambitious project and realized that I didn't know how to properly use it.
    This looks so much easier than what I was planning on doing! Thank you so much!!!

    • @krjohnson29
      @krjohnson29 Před 4 lety

      So I just finished soldering up the traces on my first board. It isn't exactly a walk in the park, but I made it through in about 4-5 hours. The board I am making is just a touch larger than the one in the tutorial (16x24), but is packed with about 4x the components.
      Some issues I had:
      1) Not as easy to straighten the wire for me as shown in the video. But after fiddling with it for a bit I was able to get straight enough sections to use.
      2) I didn't have a small Philips head screwdriver, so I had to use my small flat head to try to make the loops around the holes. Looks kinda messy, and a bit more work, but I managed. Will definitely think about getting a Philips, or maybe using a small nail for the next one!3) I stupidly mis-soldered about 4-5 holes. All but one of them de-soldered with the pump fairly easily. But one of them was a complete bear! I probably spent 20% of my total time trying to desolder this one hole. I think the difference might have been that the one that was hard had a wire going around it, maybe making it hard to make a seal with the pump. I would recommend desoldering any errant holes before getting a wire anywhere near. Unfortunately, I realized my mistake too late and had to try with the wire in place...

  • @ElektrischInkorrekt
    @ElektrischInkorrekt Před 4 lety +1

    YAY! :D
    Du bist die erste Person, der ich auf CZcams beim Löten zugeschaut haben, die die THT-Bauteile VOR dem verlöten kürzt. (Ich schaue verhältnismäßig vielen Elektronik-Kanälen zu, z.B. EEV-Blog, Elektroniklabor, Kondensatorschaden, Zerobrain, BigCliveDotCom, um mal einige davon zu nennen...)
    Das einzige, wo du meiner Meinung nach noch dran arbeiten könntest, wäre die Verdrahtung.
    So eine Verdrahtung mit Silberdraht hält auch noch ziemlich gut, wenn man ca. 4-5 Löcher Abstand zwischen zwei Lötpunkten lässt. Somit reduzierst du zum einen deinen Lötzinnverbrauch und zum anderen sieht (Meiner Meinung nach) die Platine dadurch viel schöner aus. Außerdem würde es dadurch nicht so "hingerotzt" aussehen. Wenn ich ehrlich bin, sieht das Endergebnis aus, als ob man im Nachhinein noch etwas korrigieren wollte, mit Gewalt den Draht hingebogen hat und am Ende mit dem Lötkolben "gebatzt" hat. (Wobei mir keine kalten Lötstellen aufgefallen sind...)
    Besser (/visuell ansprechender) wäre es gewesen, wenn du für jede Strecke (ohne Biegungen) einen eigenen Draht genommen hättest und diesen links oder rechts an den Bauteilen vorbeigeführt hättest(natürlich ungebogen).
    Aber das Kürzen der Bauteile vor dem Verlöten ist wirklich das Highlight des Videos :D :D :D :D :D

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 4 lety +1

      Danke für das Kompliment, ich habe das so früher in der Ausbildung als Elektroniker gelernt. Da hat man auch drauf geschaut, ob auch wirklich je einzelne Lötstelle rund und schön aussieht und dass man zwischen den Lötstellen den Draht sieht, der in diesem Fall übrigens kein Silberdraht, sondern ein verzinnter Kupferdraht ist. Aber in der Tat muss man nicht jedes Pad löten, da reicht jeder dritte oder so. War seinerzeit eher auch als Lötübung gedacht und somit kommt es bei mir auch nicht zu kalten Lötstellen. :-)
      Das Kürzen der Beine wird in einer Fertigung auch so gemacht (außer im Chinesenland), um die Lötstelle nicht zu verletzen und eine sichere Verbindung zu gewährleisten.

    • @ElektrischInkorrekt
      @ElektrischInkorrekt Před 4 lety +1

      @@Berred Dito - leider dauert es bei mir noch, bis ich die T1-Zwischenprüfung machen kann (wurde auf unbekannt verschoben...).
      Welche Elektroniker-AB hast du genau gemacht?
      E. für Betriebstechnik macht das m.W. nicht, der E. für Energie- und Gebäudetechnik m.W. auch nicht, und der E. für Automatisierungstechnik ebensowenig.
      Ich hab das halt durch, weil ich Elektroniker für Geräte und Systeme i.A. bin. Wobei dort die Schwierigkeiten eher in anderen Bereichen liegen. Ich finde es z.B. ziemlich schwer, SMD-Platinen per Hand zu bestücken (Natürlich, wenn man Lötpaste verwendet, das 0402-SMD-Arrays oder kleinere Bauteile sind und diese sich bei der kleinsten Berührung um 1mm verrücken...), wobei die Schwierigkeit exponentiell zur Anzahl der SMD-Bauelemente steigt.

  • @EarlWallaceNYC
    @EarlWallaceNYC Před 3 lety

    I like your disciplined approach. And, I will use some of your techniques. Thanks for the video.

  • @hong18s
    @hong18s Před 3 lety

    This is a one of the best tutorial for soldering on perf board

  • @kaoshavoc
    @kaoshavoc Před 6 lety

    You just taught me a lot when it comes govmaking boards. Thx. :)

  • @davidgood840
    @davidgood840 Před rokem

    OK, now that was cool! I've made many, many perf board prototypes, but never thought to make "traces" like this! I usually would bend part legs and jump wires after the parts were soldered on. Looking forward to my next board using these techniques, especially the screwdriver tip for making perfect round bends!

  • @djmj12714
    @djmj12714 Před rokem +2

    This is a great tutorial, and a refresher! I'm not new to this, but have been out of hobbyist electronics for several years, only just recently getting back into it. Clearly, things have come a long way from the wire-wrap techniques that I used. Cheers!

  • @tonysicily2687
    @tonysicily2687 Před 3 lety +1

    EXCELLENT, you make it seem like even I might have a chance. Thank you

  • @monikah12345
    @monikah12345 Před 7 lety +5

    Great technique, thanks!

  • @GaryMcKinnonUFO
    @GaryMcKinnonUFO Před 4 lety

    Very helpful, thanks for taking the time to share.

  • @upensharma2363
    @upensharma2363 Před 2 lety

    It was really nice and tidy work also I was looking for such type finished work. Great work.

  • @KE0RM
    @KE0RM Před rokem

    This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for this!

  • @alvarocoronado5842
    @alvarocoronado5842 Před 6 lety +1

    such a beautiful technique

  • @MatsAndersson
    @MatsAndersson Před 4 lety

    This is such a great video. Thank you.

  • @aske1602
    @aske1602 Před 4 lety +1

    This has helped me so much.

  • @chokkan7
    @chokkan7 Před rokem

    Very nicely done tutorial; thank you for posting this.

  • @ilierazvan5485
    @ilierazvan5485 Před 4 lety +1

    Simply BEAUTIFUL !

  • @Dosbomber
    @Dosbomber Před 6 lety

    Interesting technique.. I'll have to add it to my repertoire.

  • @BenjaminFrock
    @BenjaminFrock Před 4 lety

    really enjoyed this video. Thank you

  • @javierferrer4634
    @javierferrer4634 Před 2 lety

    Excellent video! Thank you for sharing

  • @tranluan9391
    @tranluan9391 Před 3 lety

    So great tutorial. I learn a lot from it. I'm learning arduino and I want to soder a board on the prototying board like this. Thank for sharing

  • @pandarzzz
    @pandarzzz Před 6 lety

    Thank you for sharing this interesting video! 😺🖐

  • @russellbloomfield-Luck

    So satisfying to watch

  •  Před 2 lety

    Dude... you are the man!! And a soldering machine....

  • @necoisidois7570
    @necoisidois7570 Před 6 lety +2

    Terrific! Thank you..

  • @vizionthing
    @vizionthing Před 6 lety

    Very good ... still helping people in 2018

  • @iramkhan9748
    @iramkhan9748 Před 3 lety

    36 min in to understand the significance behind this video. Solid work

  • @andyhubbard7374
    @andyhubbard7374 Před 4 lety

    Great tutorial! Thanks

  • @blackhawk9935
    @blackhawk9935 Před 5 lety

    Great Tutorial Thanks a Bunch

  • @mrmshifan
    @mrmshifan Před 3 lety

    That was so cool 👍 Thank you.

  • @todortodorov118
    @todortodorov118 Před 2 lety

    Cool technique mate!

  • @edgeeffect
    @edgeeffect Před 6 lety

    This looks like a good way to do things. I've used strip-board mein ganzes leben lang and it's taken me "too long" to realise how to get the best out of grid-board.
    I've seen a lot of American videos where they suggest using the component leads to make the solder-side connections but this makes the board hard to repair and modify.
    But this technique... you seem to almost be making a copy of a PCB with wires and the grid... looks like it would be ganz besser... I will try it again on my next small project.
    Thanks.

  • @umarchaudhary6910
    @umarchaudhary6910 Před 4 lety +7

    do yourself a favor and watch at 2x speed. good luck out there future builders

  • @docsketchy
    @docsketchy Před 3 lety

    Holy crap! In the time it took this guy to solder on all those wires, I could have printed, transferred, etched, drilled, tinned, stuffed, and tested a real PCB. (That's why I'm DOCTOR Sketch-n-Etch.)

  • @massimomelodia3670
    @massimomelodia3670 Před 2 lety

    Great !! Thanks for info regards the wire !!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍.

  • @elliotcruz7821
    @elliotcruz7821 Před 5 lety

    I love the soldering

  • @awjaaa
    @awjaaa Před rokem

    Best hacker ASMR evar.

  • @ColinToal
    @ColinToal Před 3 lety

    Nicely done.

  • @patrickdelafon8618
    @patrickdelafon8618 Před 3 lety

    Excellent. Thank you.

  • @user-mo8mi5ws3j
    @user-mo8mi5ws3j Před 5 lety

    Bravo , nice job .

  • @desiarvela1505
    @desiarvela1505 Před 3 lety

    I like this work

  • @josephciaravino4115
    @josephciaravino4115 Před 3 lety

    This was so cool!

  • @denizsevinc9334
    @denizsevinc9334 Před rokem

    Excellent !

  • @inma5665
    @inma5665 Před 6 lety +1

    My hero

  • @ryanfranz6715
    @ryanfranz6715 Před 3 lety

    Two things I want to see this guy do: 1. How would you cross one wire over another on the back side? 2. How would you re-attach a broken pin? I ask because I have to cross some wires over each other on the back side, and have some broken pins.
    Great video btw.

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 3 lety +1

      1. For a cross wire you can use the other side using the holes (where no components is attached). 2. Its usually not possible to re-attach a broken pad, too difficult.

    • @ryanfranz6715
      @ryanfranz6715 Před 3 lety

      @@Berred Thanks for the reply! And such is my experience with question 2, but this at least gives me peace of mind.

  • @Ma7amed
    @Ma7amed Před 4 lety

    Really helpfull

  • @billybbob18
    @billybbob18 Před 2 lety

    Nice technique! If I need to make more than one, then I'll just order pre-made PCBs.

  • @wrichik_basu
    @wrichik_basu Před 4 lety

    Which soldering station have you used/you prefer for your work?

  • @gbarger4581
    @gbarger4581 Před 5 lety

    Thanks, I love the video. I just found it while trying to figure out how to connect my components on the grid PCB. I have a question though because I'm just starting the learning process. What is the reason you would use a 555 timer and a pot to control your motor instead of just a pot. Wouldn't dropping the voltage directly on the motor have the same effect?

  • @rascalnicough7376
    @rascalnicough7376 Před 3 lety +2

    I really enjoyed this video. Relaxing and informative -- thank you for sharing.
    Several other circuit builders I've watched and read recommend inserting low-height components into the board first and using their leads to form the traces, but your approach is to form the traces from wire before adding components. Using component leads to form traces seems economical but your approach feels more organized and structured. Do you have any feelings on the other approach or thoughts on why you create traces from wire first?

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 3 lety +3

      I ve learnd this in the 80th. The advantage of this method is that you can lay the board flat on the table to solder the connections. Besides, it usually looks better.

  • @svem1972
    @svem1972 Před 7 měsíci +1

    Excellent and honestly I am going to follow your steps.
    Basically I am software architect and I have huge passion of building circuits for amplifiers however to get kick off I have to make it on Vero board to set prototype and if testing is successfully would make the same on pcb.
    However have few doubts to build tracks when it co.es on Vero board how to follow if you could help would be great.
    For ex. In pcb design we give track measurement so that copper lead will be mask and give good results for the circuits. Howevere here qhen us 0.3mm wire for connecting dots may lead pro lems while using high rated power amp compone ts in that case what should do , plz suggest.

  • @jromhek2070
    @jromhek2070 Před 6 lety +1

    Thanks for sharing , two question please is there are an easy way to transfer schematic to components layout ? and which is more power efficient running a 12 volt dc fan with 9 volt battery using PWM or xl6009 ?
    Keep up the good work

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 6 lety +2

      I used a CAD Software for schematic to PCB layout (eagle). XL6009 is a switch mode DC-DC converter and uses PWM. For a Fan a good choice.

  • @Nono-hk3is
    @Nono-hk3is Před 5 lety

    What was the spraying noise when you were laying out the silver wire?

  • @RoamingAdhocrat
    @RoamingAdhocrat Před 3 lety

    10 minutes in and really enjoying this so far. But how do you plan the paths? You're confidently placing wires but I don't know how you decided in advance where they need to go.
    I want to connect a seven-segment display, rotary encoder, and servo socket to a microcontroller. So, I've got about 15 leads to connect from the components to the microcontroller, plus power and ground, timing crystal, etc. Haven't a clue where to begin but I'd like to keep it fairly compact…

  • @icollided
    @icollided Před 6 měsíci

    Awesome video. Very helpful. How did you keep the board from sliding around? It seems to magically stay in the marks the whole time.

  • @DouglasDeodato
    @DouglasDeodato Před 4 lety +1

    what kinda iron he used to make the path? thank you

  • @ubtech2938
    @ubtech2938 Před 3 lety

    Very usefull vedio
    but what wire is that made of
    style or nicrom or nicle

  • @Penfold8
    @Penfold8 Před 4 lety

    An easier technique for bending pins on an IC is to lie the chip on it's side on a table and gently push to a perpendicular position. Larger ICs is where this technique comes in handy.

  • @frankreiserm.s.8039
    @frankreiserm.s.8039 Před 3 lety

    Great video. When I am stuffing a PCB, sometimes I solder in the wrong component. I desolder it, clean the copper foil side with solderwick, and reinsert another component. However, frequently I cause the foil pad to raise, and I destroy the PCB. I have my iron at 450 and only hold the iron on the foil for a short time, about 2 to 3 seconds. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, Frank.

    • @jstro-hobbytech
      @jstro-hobbytech Před rokem

      Lower the temperature to 400 and that can't be helped. The pads come off. I think that's why he puts a half ring around in case he has to desolder. A year late but I'd want someone to answer me. Take care

  • @jannis6841
    @jannis6841 Před 4 lety

    Hey, danke für das Teilen des Videos. Mit welchen Programmen arbeitest du? Womit hast du das Layout gemacht?

  • @antonioferraoneto6681
    @antonioferraoneto6681 Před 7 lety +1

    What is that blue tool you used to fold the resistor's terminals? (33:25) Where did you get it?

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 7 lety +5

      This is a "Resistor Lead Bending Tool", you can buy it for example at sparcfun.

    • @antonioferraoneto6681
      @antonioferraoneto6681 Před 7 lety +2

      Thanks and congratulations for the video.

  • @carlberger9423
    @carlberger9423 Před 4 lety

    Great tutorial. I did notice that both the 1N4148 Diodes were in backward up to 38:11, then at 38:21 they were not backward anymore!

    • @jannis6841
      @jannis6841 Před 4 lety

      Nope. He just turned the PCB 😂

    • @carlberger9423
      @carlberger9423 Před 4 lety

      @@jannis6841 Look at the Cathode stripes. Compare the stripe positions between the 1N4148 and the 1N4007 near the PWR connector. At 38:11 the 1N4148 Diodes are backward!

  • @what_is_myname1289
    @what_is_myname1289 Před 6 lety +1

    tre bien

  • @sblantipodi
    @sblantipodi Před 5 lety

    How tick is the wire you are using to create the lines?

  • @wrmaldonado
    @wrmaldonado Před 3 lety

    Where do you buy the connecting wire. I would like to make a current path.

  • @altheafajardo5059
    @altheafajardo5059 Před 4 lety

    Can I use other wire insted of silver plated copper wire???

  • @fabriziodalembert5916
    @fabriziodalembert5916 Před 3 lety

    What kind of wire are you using to create the traces?

  • @davoodzarei695
    @davoodzarei695 Před rokem

    ❤️👍

  • @gennadyyakubovich4076
    @gennadyyakubovich4076 Před 7 lety +3

    Hello Berred.
    What software did you use to produce these grid style traces ?

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 7 lety +4

      You mean the drawing of it? Its eagle, I set the grid to 2,54mm and place the components and traces inside this grid.

    • @gennadyyakubovich4076
      @gennadyyakubovich4076 Před 7 lety

      Thanks a lot - trying to simplify and speed-up prototyping... do you have any special settings for Eagle?

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 7 lety

      Which kind of settings do you mean? For general Layout setting, gerber-data, drill-settings....?

    • @gennadyyakubovich4076
      @gennadyyakubovich4076 Před 7 lety +1

      Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant traces settings - the way they are laid in a grid style

    • @Berred
      @Berred  Před 7 lety +8

      Ok, if you set the working grid in Eagle (view-grid) then grid to 2.54mm or 0.1 inch and make is visible, its very easy to route the traces in that way. Hope it was helpfull for you.

  • @claudiostano
    @claudiostano Před 4 lety +3

    wow!! great tutorial !!
    I didn't get the type of narrow wire you are using to build the path ( 4:09 ), could you kindly tell me? =)
    thanks a lot !!

    • @matambale
      @matambale Před 4 lety +4

      I was wondering the same thing - look under SHOW MORE, he says:
      Uses wire:
      Tinned or silver plated copper wire diameter 0,3mm (AWG 28)

    • @claudiostano
      @claudiostano Před 4 lety +1

      @@matambale thank you !!! Good catch!!
      I missed that !!! =)

  • @Mimamau
    @Mimamau Před 6 lety +1

    Darf ich den Schaltplan sehen?

  • @pantoffelheld14
    @pantoffelheld14 Před 7 lety +1

    Hey wo hast du das Draht her? Kann nichts so wirklich finden. Danke im Voraus!

    • @xrcontrol
      @xrcontrol Před 7 lety +1

      Ich nehme immer sowas hier:
      www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=silberdraht++mit+kupferkern&_sacat=0
      app.box.com/s/hspofl7mr5l75soy9b8gcw4w5nytjpp3