Vet Reacts*Finland's Fight* WW2 From Finland's Perspective Animated History--The Armchair Historian
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- čas přidán 11. 08. 2023
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Fun fact, the Finnish air force used the swastika "hakaristi" way before the nazi party was even formed. We started using it in 1918 after gaining independence from Russia. And for obvious reasons we stopped painting it on our planes after 1945, switching it to a blue circle with a white inner circle. It pains me knowing that some people believe that finns were "teaming up" with nazis but we really had no other choice. Mannerheim even went on record saying that he despises facism and Hitler's ideologies.
P.S yes, it gets really cold in Finland. During the Winter war the temperatures dropped beneath -40 degrees celcius (-40 degrees farenheit) which resulted in freezing to death among the unprepared Soviet forces
Facts
Yes also it's an ancient symbol of peace and prosperity in the religion of Buddhism and Hinduism, predating the Nazis by just a few thousand years.
You can see swastikas all over the place in India especially, people tape their cars with it, and it has zero relation in Asia to fascism or Nazism for that matter.
Key difference of these symbols to point out is that the Nazi's turned the swastika 45 degrees, the original swastika is diagonal and horizontal in it's shape.
In the 1970s, an English admiral asked the Finnish general Adolf Ehrnrooth "how many Soviet soldiers are stationed in Finland." He replied: "a few hundred thousand" He asked "where are they placed?" Ehrnrooth replied: "about two meters deep along our eastern border"
One of the most badass replies of all time and so quintessentially Finnish. Pretty sure he said it with an entirely deadpan expression.
❤
"our happiness is at the tip of our sword" Jääkara marssi
@@zymelin21 That answer was laconic - not happy. Of course there is grim humor but it is not exactly happy.
Älä usko kaikkea mitä kuulet. Ei siinä olisi mitään järkeä että vuonna 1970 englantilainen amiraali ei muka tietäisi mitään Suomen tilanteesta.
Two comments: Help from germany was better than no help at all. They were pretty much the only option, Soviet Union was after all allied with the ALLIES by Barbarossa, so no help from them. In the end it was very tricky tightrope, but we survived better than the eastern Europe who did end up occupied/ behind the iron curtain.
And something this guy ignores entirely, is that the Jewish population was "safe" (as safe as the rest of finns) in Finland. Considering the Germans & the times, I would think it's something to point out. They fought with the rest of finns and even had field synagogues in sight of Germans & were left alone!
Even tough Sweden never officially helped, unofficially there was about 10 000 men from Sweden. Also Estonian voulentares were fighting in Finland.
The fact about jews is true. Even Germany didn't harass them on finnish soil. It was a strange little detail in ww2.
@@svanteforsblom4264 Not sure the threat or signifigance of volunteers is quite the same as an entire nation/ nations declaring material & political support (like Germany. OR USA would have been great too, but alas...).
But yes, I am aware (a native finn here, who really wasn't interested in doing a long comment, but... 🤷♀) that there were volunteers from many countries (& not "just" Sweden & Estonia, though I do believe that from some of the other countries they were more in amounts of what I'd call a "handfull" of volunteers...) .
How many there were and who fought (or what they actually did & where) is a matter of which I can't remember well enough right now to give specifics nor do I actually care enough at this time of night (midnight) to do any deep (or even light to be honest) research into 🤔.
Oh that definitely is something he should have pointed out
@@miiah7475 Well if 10 thousand Swedish volunteers is not enough for you then it seems you are unaware Sweden sent around half of ALL it's military equpment to Finland during the winter war. smh
@@melkor3496 For heavens sake, my point in the first comment was to protest the guy laughing! about Finland allying with the Germans, as if Finland had too many actual options or it was in anyway funny.
And then I was simply just about to go to bed and rather tired. I did not (as I said) care at the time. Apparently it was something of a mistake to attempt a comment in that condition, if it needs such reaction from people.
To add, I in general, dislike writing long comments as I tend to over analyze & over stress over every wording.
Also, be assured now that I am awake I actually remember things!
For my personal mental health I WOULD prefer NOT to have debates/ talks about things that are important ONLINE where I can't SEE my debate companion!
Thank You! for understanding.
Shout out to Finland from Canada. You guys are highly regarded by us Canucks. Simo is a hero amongst our shooting community. As well known as Francis Pegahmagabow. Cheers😊
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Oh come on. Norway was attack from sowjets and english so naturally their Germanic neighbours Germany had to help them. But come on, when Norway needed help, Germany was alright, and then when Germany is loosing they changed the site, a very Italian thing to to, don't you think?
@@maulfickmanfred1796 quit yapping
The normal "cold weather" during winter is something like -20°C nowadays, during winter war they went down to below -40°
During my military service we did have -30°C weather during one military exercise.
It's not only the cold peaks but also the fact that we have temperature colder than -10C for over 4 months straight.
@@Pajo25ify Oh yeah of course, although should note that for a military, +5° to -5°C is worse than -10°C. Things being properly frozen instead of wet and muddy. A wet soldier will freeze a lot faster than a dry soldier in 5° colder weather.
@@pluggedfinn-bj3hn That's true. I was NCO and have to take care of each of the soldiers has dry feet. I served Lapland Sodankylä. Got used to "jalkarätti"
-30 degrees was ok to not to out between lessons when I was at school. But that’s not bad if not in the coast 😊
This reminded me of a story my dad told me about his day in the military. It was one of those bitter cold winters (this was in the 70s,) and his troop were on an exercise in the snowy woods. At night, they pitched up a 20 person tent with a heater, and went to sleep. In the middle of the night the whole troop woke up to an unpleasant wetness and an even more unpleasant smell. Turns out, they had pitched their tent right on top of where a previous troop had had its makeshift toilet, and the heater had melted the frozen mound. Sooooo yeah, they were in the middle of the woods, in the arctic winter, covered in poop water. Thankfully they got out ok and no-one got seriously ill or anything, but it's still a lifelong memory.
My late wife was Finnish, and used to ski to school when she was young. Her father fought in both the Winter War, and the Continuation War, but told her very little about it, apart from having to eat tree bark, and watching a man go mad, after accidently shooting his own brother. Her grandparents were from Karelia, and had to leave at a moments notice. The Finns were badly let down by countries they thought they could depend on, but made tough and unpleasant decisions and survived. I couldn't be more proud of them.
None of us know what my grandfather from father side did in the frontlines. He never talked about it but he did become an alcoholic and very difficult person to have any relations with. My other grandfather was actually conscientious objector and spend the war in prison.
'Used to ski to school'... All winter and all summer, maybe? Even when there was no school? Just for tease? My parents told the same story. It was (badly) hidden criticism of ones laziness. 😁
@@miljal4223 Yes, she used to ski to school, even in the holidays....just to make sure it was still there, hahaha!
@@squidcaps4308 Yes, wifes father was an alcoholic.
@@julianbarber4708 Both my grandfathers became an alcoholics too. That was the only medicin they had for decades. Other one of them lost his toes in winter war and couldn't bear cold or draft thereafter. He could sense an open window three rooms away (we grandchildren tested that multiple times)...
That "ethnic cleansing" thing in East Karelia is maybe a bit too much. Food was scarce for general population too These claims about more "systematic crimes" are mainly from Soviet and Russian "sources". And Soviet sources had reasons to exaggerate and lie. And we have seen what kind of image Russia is trying to build for her neighbors.
Yeah, I'd definitely take that claim with a grain of salt. The soviets were demanding that Finns forcibly drive the Germans out or face invasion, which Finns were doing albeit begrudgingly, but somehow Finland also managed to have the manpower and resources to invade a region Soviets had already pushed Finns largely out of, set up a refugee camp, and commit war crimes toward russian civilians.
Now, I'm not saying it absolutely couldn't have happened. But also, it's not like the soviets never lied with their propaganda. And _saying_ "Finns did that" is a whole lot easier than for the Finns to actually manage that.
Yeah, in 1942 Finland had famine, so the Soviet POW's etc. weren't on the top of the list when rationing food.
Simo Häyhä "White Death", is the best sniper ever lived, with his open sight Mosin Nagant "pystykorva" M28/30 rifle and Suomi KP/-31 submachinegun.
Thing with Häyhä is, his combat record was collected during just 100 days of active combat. His confirmed kills thus average 5/day. That is a seriously high amount of inflicted casualties for a man with an SMG and a bolt-action rifle.
Russians tasked marksmen, artillery units and hunter-units to hunt Simo down. He didn't use scopes because they made you lift your head up higher than when using iron sights, and kept snow in his mouth to cool his breaths out as to not give a sign of himself to any Soviet hunter.
In Continuation War, he was kept to the rear exactly because he had become somewhat of an icon, and also because it was considered that he had done his share of killing, and needed to leave some for the rest of the army.
The animal in the very start of the video is actually a reindeer.
Reindeer are semi wild, they are allowed to roam freely in the forests and are owned by reindeer herders.
Reindeer herding is a big part culture of Sámi culture, but not all reindeer herders are Sámi people.
You can see reindeer in the wild on northern parts of the Finland.
are you sure. the antlers lead me to root for a deer. I do know about the reindeer. smaler body and definetely smaller antlers.
it is a reindeer 100% @@zymelin21
considering how much more there are reindeer in Finland
also the coloring (while it is muted on the video, but it seems way more on gray coloring) matches with reindeer, also the twin coloring of the body matches with reindeer more than a deer.
both deer and reindeer have similar antlers, they are related species after all
My grandfather lost his leg stepping on a mine during the war. He was fitted with a prosthetic leg. Later in life, he was driving a moped and got into a small accident with a car. His prosthetic leg went flying. The driver of the car was shitting bricks. He though my granddads leg was cut off in the crash.
😂
"Unknown soldier" from 2017 is a great Finnish drama about the continuation war (i.e. Finland's part in Operation Barbarossa). It can be seen both as a TV series and cut down to a movie. Personally, I think the TV-series has the best flow. Highly recommendable!
I just always remember what my grandad said about the wartime: I hope we'll never be alone again. Earlier this year his wish did come true.
Yeps, the true Finnish defence was always guerrilla warfare. Now with NATO, we have to prepare for the big battles.
Simo Häyhä is deadliest sniper in human history. to this day no one has managed to beat his record
One thing worth noting is that the Soviets seemingly never intended the interim peace to be anything more than a temporary break, as during the peace they kept placing increasing political pressure on the Finnish government. They also massed large numbers of troops at the border (topping out at 27 divisions and over a thousand artillery pieces), and there were several instances where Soviet soldiers fired at Finnish border guards or even made incursions to the Finnish side and took border guards prisoner.
So, as far as anyone could tell at the time, it seemed pretty much inevitable that hostilities would reignite eventually. And since the western allies had refused to lend a hand (for fear of pissing off Stalin), the only two options were an alliance with nazi Germany or facing another war with the soviets without any significant foreign support. It was very much a deal with the devil, but I would say the other alternative would likely have been very much worse in the long run.
First off, i dont think that the Allies were "afraid" of pissing off Stalin. Stalin and Roosevelt were very good friends and had close ties.
Secondly: "It was very much a deal with the devil"
Well yes, to you and me, but not to the finnish government. You see the finnish government and the finnish army commander Mannerheim, were all rabid anti-communists and had extremely close ties to Germany, especially considering that Germany saved Finland from becoming a People's Republic.
Mannerheim for that matter was just a straight up fascist. He and his endorsement of the Lappo-movement with their dreams of an ethnically cleansed Greater Finland, stretching all the way to the Urals. The finnish government wasn't as bad as Mannerheim sure, but they were still pretty bad. They're largely responsible for the fact that the Soviets had to attack them.
"but I would say the other alternative would likely have been very much worse in the long run."
This is just so ahistorical. They could have literally just solved it diplomatically. Do you even know the terms of the peace treaties between the Soviets and the Finnish government? Do you know what the Soviets wanted during negotiations in 1939 before the Winter War? Both wars could have been avoided very easily if the Finnish government had been cooperative. But no, the Finnish government were so blinded by hatred for "judeo-bolshevism" that they refused all the honest and fair deals that the Soviets offered them.
@@DonHaka becouse as we know from history, whatever country Soviet soldiers enters, they will leave peacefully. No. They need to be expaled by force.
@@DonHaka Mannerheim used to be an officer in the Russian armed forces. And as to Germany saving us from becoming 'a People's Republic'? Back to the drawing board, lest you overly romanticize a certain destructive uber-rightwing power and its reign of holocaust terror?
Finland saved Finland, and that's it.
@@DonHaka Well who wouldn't be anti whoever came to fuck you in the ass? Mennerheim served Russian Imperial Army for about 3 decades, up until they lost their marbles. Mannerheim also disliked the Nazies, especially Hitler that he had to meet up. So this your narrative doesn't really hold up at all. If you already forgot, Mannerheim wanted to just bend over and give into their demands to avoid a war first time around.
And USA wasn't THE Allies, you see, it has the letter S at the end implying there's more than 1 country. USA might not have been afraid, but for fucking certain everyone else was since they aren't far away from any possible conflict like the USA, or have a powerful military able to fight off Soviets. They couldn't even handle Nazi Germany.
@@DonHaka Soviets wanted Finland to abandon our heaviest fortifications in the roughest terrain along the border. I'm sure nothing could have gone wrong with that because Russians are so well known for following international agreements and treaties. You can ask any country bordering Russia about how well it goes if you comply with their demands. Russians don't do honest and fair deals. Both Winter and Continuation Wars were started by Soviet Union without provocation from Finland. The only scenario in which they wouldn't have invaded Finland would have been if Finland capitulated without a war and became a part of Soviet Union. My home town got to know about the start of Continuation War when they heard Soviet bombers approaching and dropping bombs in a town with zero military value.
The whole point of Greater Finland was to add the rest of the areas with majority Finnish population to Finland IF Soviet Union started an other war (which they did) and we managed to grab those areas with Germany's support. There were no Finns in Urals so that's just wrong.
When your country has been under Russian rule for over 100 years and they haven't done anything for you, you don't tend to be very sympathetic towards them. The last decades of those years are known as years of oppression in Finnish. This hate for Russians comes from our nation's past experiences with them. We might change our minds when they change the way they act but don't try to blame us for not forgetting our history.
Fun fact: Finnish jews fought side by side with germans and 4 jews were offered iron crosses
Yes those were traitors in every meaning of the word. Fighting in the name of bourgeoisie Finland alongside the perpetrators of the systematical erasure of their own people.
@@DonHaka Not even one. I'd recommend you read _Strangers in a Stranger Land_ by John Simon, but I guess you wouldn't.
@@TheRawrnstuff What do you mean "not even one"? If you fight alongside fascists and antisemites against the communists (the guys who liberated the jews and saved all of us from nazism) then you're a traitor to judaism, simple as. Really doesn't help either if said traitor is a zionist aswell.
Finland did not deport Jews to N-Germany. N-Germany asked it, but Mannerheim told them Finland's citizens and they are going to stay in Finland.
@@butterflies655what jews? there are only Finns in Finland!
Sabaton has a Song and History on it
My grandfather fought in the continuation war while my grandmother was working in Helsinki during the bombings. My gradmother's family also went through the evacuation of Hanko which the Russians "rented" after the Winter War.
Most of the veterans are gone now, but the majority of Finland still remember parents and grand-parents who fought for our independence. I think that's why Finns have such a strong sense of duty to defend our land. We can't do less, knowing how much they sacrificed for us.
Yeps, and along the Russian border, we have the most to lose, if we do not take care of our defence.
"Sabaton History: The White Death" is one of the best in English.
Gotcha
toughest man i have ever known is my grandfather from my mother side. he fought in winter war, continuation war and lapland war, he lost his finger and some mobility of other fingers in continuation war because of infection. harsh man very independent. my grandfather from my father side got wounded severely in winter war and died when i was very young. @@AmericansLearn
Coldest I've seen here (I think it was 1999 or 2000) was -45c⁰, so -49f⁰. The coldest that day was somewhere in central Finland, where it dropped below -52c⁰
Same here. The electricity was out for only an hour!, but coldest place was in Lapland, Sodankylä-Pokka. Many home meters only measured up to -fifty there. (-58.F)
in 1999 I was in secondary school (kitchen master school). The whole three weeks of frost were -47 to -49 celsius. -52 celsius on two days. we also went to school normally during the freezing period, but it was special. When the frost eased to -20 and above, we joked that it's almost summer here. Normally the frost is between -5 and -20 Celsius.
@@pvahanenYeah it was at Pokka, Lapland. I lived in Rovaniemi that time and we had -49 celsius. I was about 20 yrs at the time so I remember it well.
A couple of years ago I was working at Rovaniemi. I think it got up to -40C, and I had to zip up my jacket at that point. It was mildly uncomfortable.
51,5! was in lappland -98 or -99.
Sabaton has a song about simo häyhä. It's called white death
Well... about simo (the sniper) sabaton has a song and obviously an history video
You have a song and a sabaton history chapter about White Death,
As a Finn. There was no Finnish nation before we declared independence. There was finnish people, but they were separated to different tribes. We were subject to Swedes 600 years more or less. And 1809 Russian Empire took over. We were always a people, but 1917 we became a nation. And in Winter War, all of us united against the enemy and that really drove everyone together.
Call me conspiracy theorist but that 600 years under Sweden might be wrong info and a Finnish highly guarded state secret that we were not much of a swedish subject. Remember that history is written by winners.
This is inaccurate: Finland was "promoted to rank of nations" in 1812 as the Russian tsar Alexander decided that Finland should remain a separate state entity: Grand Duchy of Finland. And during 19th century also Finnish language and national idea developed around the idea of this new state structure. Which then already was a ready nation state in 1917 that only needed a very conservative independence declaration - which was more a result of a revolution in Russia and abdication of the grand dukes ie. csar than any revolutionary action in Finland. Later on this Russian revolution was deliberately agitated and imported from Russia in 1918. But the actual independence declaration was a non event - almost. Fait accompli.
ei o naurunappulaa
That truly isn't at all accurate at all. Telling people in the internet that all people living in that times were just tribes is so inaccurate that I wonder what did you actually learn about Finland? Even under Sweden we always were different people from them.
What "we"? There was no we there before the Grand Duchy needed a uniform identity, separate from old Sweden and also separate from the new Sweden after 1809. Also in Sweden a new identity, based on separateness of Finns, was only invented after 1809. Finnish national identity is the same sort of umbrella identity as multicultural Canadian identity. Yes you read corectly: multiculturalism aims to create a homogenous national identity of uniform nation state of Canada. It has absolutelyu nothing to do with different cultures, it is about creating one culture, and only in Canada. Elsewhere it is a useless and malfunctioning concept.
@@thamor4746
I'm an American and my great grandfather fought in the Winter War, my grandmother fled with her mom to the USA as a child while her dad fought the Soviets. She is still alive today and is teaching me to speak Finnish so I can keep our family history alive! Thanks for the Video!
the 1939-40 winter was very cold. Varying -5 by day to -50 night Fahrenheit. Usual winters in Finland it gets 15f to -25f.
Oh my god. Absolutely horrid
Record cold in Finland is -51,5°c which is -60,7F from year 1999.
Finland is a long country and while I lived in Lapland, northern Finland and couldn't get my car started at -40 (same in C and F) it was nearly 30°C or 45F less in southern Finland... 😅
26:33 Bad idea? There was no other choice.
Both of my grandparents fought in the war, and they never wanted to talk about it, it was that bad
Same here, fathers father never talked about it to anyone, we don't even know where he was stationed. My other grandfather was in prison as conscientious objector. The latter is my hero, he was whisked to the frontline and put on a mock trial and execution, to test if he was really not going to fight. "I will die before i will kill a stranger". That takes humongous balls and conviction on a level that i do not have.
@@squidcaps4308 So even if he was your hero, you wanted all the 99.9999999999999999999999999% that actually fought and sacrificed their lives so we could have this free land and nation still. To do the same? I am not saying your grandfather wasn't a hero, but personally for me all others were actually the heroes. You really think our grandfathers wanted to kill strangers that started invading our lands. Of course always there were people who wanted to do that, but mostly as a our people we are peaceful people who just want others to leave us alone.
@@squidcaps4308 As much as I admire your grandfathers kindness, that naievety would have been the end of Finland. No one wanted to kill anyone but they were forced by the USSR to make a choice.
@@Eviloos I know the facts, pacifism is interpreted differently by different people. For me it is the end goal but we are nowhere near the place where you should refuse to defend.. but he was progressive with quite a lot of things, orphan at 13, self learned 6 languages. He was a scholar and a thinker, practical side was not his strong suit. "Fixing it now with some armature wire" instead of "fixing it for good".
What i admire the most is the amount of conviction it takes to be ready to die so you don't have to kill some stranger that doesn't even like you...
Same here.
Coldest temps I have personally been was -45F . I had to put long sleeved shirt on then... :D
12:21 -last winter, around where i am, we got -35'c at lowest. but during winter war, it was exceptionally cold, reaching under -40'c.
Cold in itself isn't too bad, but a windy cold will absolutely sap any heat out of your body within seconds.
I would take -50c with absolutely no wind over -25c with strong 20m/s winds.
If you have ever ridden a motorbike in late autumn in the cold without gloves, you know that the wind makes all the difference here.
When it isn't windy, your own body heat creates this pocket of warm air insulating your skin from the cold, but with strong winds that effect gets ripped away. This is the same reason why fans will cool you down.
Anyway, i'd say surviving in the cold is mostly about knowing what you are fighting against and being properly dressed. Remember your layers! Having multiple layers of clothing generates these same "warm air pockets". Even something as basic as having a skin tight long, full sized underpants and a skin tight shirt with sleeves under your actual shirt and pants, and then the winter jacket and pants on top of that will give you 2 "air pockets", and when in gear like that i'd say you are more likely to overheat than to get hypothermic in most normal circumstances.
Oh and, remember to stay dry. Sweating like a pig under your 3 layers of clothing and making them all wet will be very counter productive in the end, as water conducts heat(and cold) really well. If you feel too hot, don't be afraid to remove some of the layers and put them in your back bag or whatever, ready to be put on when the need arises again. Assuming you aren't about to die of hypothermia, as feeling "too hot" is one of the late stage effects of it. But as some random hiker in the cold, that doesn't concern you.
None of this require some mystical knowledge only possessed by the esoteric people of the north.
For those that use freedom units, that's -31° and -40°F respectively.
@@Duskraven67 Uhm sir , no , at -40 degrees it doesnt matter what system you use .... they all agree that its fucking cold
@matso3856 I didn't say it wasn't... just did the conversion.
@@DruidEnjoyer Its like northern swede coming down to work here in stockholm sweden claimed it was warmer going out in underwear in -25 than being "fully" dressed in the icy sea winds in -5 here in the capitol
My grandmother on mother side had to leave Karelia because of Soviets. Great Finnish war movies to watch are The Unknown Solider and Sisu. Simo Häyhä, Lauri Törni/Larry Thorne and Aimo Koivunen have great videos made in YT. Simo af course was the great hunter, Layri/Larry fought in three armies and Aimo, well he was a m*thhead 🤣😂
Not just _a_ m*thhead, a legendary m*thhead 😂👍 And ironically, the one in charge of his whole company's m*th because he was deemed the least likely to abuse it?
Some history from the other side of the pond.
A considerable group of Swedish volunteers served in the finnish winter war, even though politically neutral.
My grandfather was stationed near the finnish border when both Finland and Norway was occupied by nazi Germany. He was a very cold and reserved man, not really opening up to anybody. Though the year before his death he told me storys from the war. About being afraid of possible attack/ocupstion by the nazis.
About 8k of them did, propably helped a bit, but that is not "considerable" when your small farmer country is up against a country that is a global superpower and had population about 50 times larger at the time, and finland didn't even have a navy, few crappy old tanks and a couple of old planes up against thousands and thousands.
The war reparations that Soviets demanded was 1/3rd of Finland's GDP. The timetable was made so that it would be almost impossible to do it. But... Finland was the only nation to pay the reparations in full and ahead of schedule. This kickstarted industrialization and is the basis for Finnish prosperity today. It also opened trade between USSR and Russia that continued all the way to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. It had slowed down before that already, the occupation of Crimea was a key moment.
But, all this time, since the end of the war to this day Finland has been preparing. That is one rabbit hole, search for Total Defense doctrine, Finland's underground facilities, mainly in Helsinki that is the only city in the world to have underground zoning; there is room for 600 000 people under Helsinki in nuclear bomb proof shelters.
I dont give 2 hoots who we teamed up with, even a devil himself! What ever it takes to keep our independence.
Finland would never have lost its independence. The Soviets defeated Finland in both the Winter War and the continuation war, yet they barely took anything. The soviets mostly demanded war reparations. Finland stood on the wrong side of history is all.
Not sure what drugs you been taking, but soviets never managed to even reach capital :D@@DonHaka
@@TheNismo777 The Soviets literally won the war and could have easily annexed Finland if they wanted to. Not sure what drugs you've been taking but you sure as hell do not read history.
@@DonHaka Disinformation.
@@Cherryflavoredpie nothing about what i wrote is "disinformation". The USSR defeated Finland in the Winter War and the continuation war, could have easily taken the entirety of Finland in the continuation war. If the soviets wanted to annex Finland, they would have done so. But they didnt, even though they could have done so.
That winter was specifically cold with colder than -40'C in Lappland and -30'C to -40'C (-22'F to -40'F) elsewhere in the country.
Lauri Törni or Larry Thorne, check it out. Unknown Soldier, from the 50's and also the more recent from a couple of years ago which is a really good flick, i think the most expensive film in Finland ever. Then there's a swedishspeaking finn-film "Framom första linjen" which translates to "Behind enemy lines", its good. Then there is the most recent, SISU, its fictional but i think its great by the trailer, dont spoil it! Have a good one! 😋
Social democrats arent far left in finland. They are a left leaning party but I wouldnt call them far left. They were part of the coalition cabinets in Finland during the ww2. Finland was relatively united against the Soviet Union during the ww2 for the most part.
The coldest is -53°C in 1998
16:23 My great-grandfather's name was John, or as he was called Jonni. He also fought in the Winter War, and the Continuation War.
There's a Sabaton song about Simo Häyhä (copy+paste+search) czcams.com/video/JRIfWazqIQ8/video.html
The name "the White Death" were given to him by his enemies.
There was significant unofficial aid from Sweden.
Lastly the Finns were hardly pro-Nazi - for the record. Their Jews were untouched and served as any other Finn (there are stories of them trolling the SS by speaking Hebrew while walking past them).
You might be interested in the clips by a former US marine guy's channel, Combat arms channel. By searching it by addind Finland the the search line you'll find very, realy very many clips concerning Finland at war as well as how it now makes it's way as a new Nato member.
It was a reindeer
Two things: first a note that the (numerically and technologically superior) USSR was losing the Winter War until Zhukov took command - I'm sure you've heard of him! Second, to paraphrase Churchill, teaming up with Nazi Germany was the worst idea...except for all the others. Finland came out of the war badly, but it (mostly) wasn't absorbed by the USSR, and that's pretty amazing. It's hard to see how else they could have achieved that, given the lack of support from any other country's government.
"but it (mostly) wasn't absorbed by the USSR" It really wasn't absorbed by the USSR at all. They let Finland retain its complete independence, even though they could have easily just annexed it all. Why is that? Maybe because the USSR wasn't evil as we were told in school and media? Who knows.
@@DonHaka easily?.. consider it from Stalins perspective, including the risks of involvement by others than the Finns..
@@DonHaka We permanently lost landmass so partiallly absorbed into USSR is correct
@@leifiseland1218 What Stalin's perspective on it was really isn't that important. Unlike what anti-communist scholars will tell you, the USSR practiced collective leadership. So whilst Stalin definetly had influence, he wasn't alone in decision-making and certainly could not decide upon things by himself.
Then you could consider the fact that Stalin and Roosevelt were pretty chummy with each other. Add to that the USSR's military power in 1944 makes me doubt that anyone would have done anything. Sweden might have protested, the UK might have, but in the end they wouldn't have done anything.
Or think of it like this: The USSR could maybe not have annexed the entirety of Finland, but it could certainly have taken much more land than it did. In the end the land taken was the exact same borders that had been decided upon in 1940.
It just doesn't add up when Finnish Nationalists say that the USSR wanted to curb Finland's independence.
@@TheMeII Eh i dont agree. The word absorbed doesn't sound right. Incorporated is more like it.
I actually have copies of my grandfathers medals from WW2 and we know almost nothing about his experience.
All we know is that he was on the HMS Kelly in the liberation of malta and that he is one of very few naval crew to get a medal fighting on land, and that's it.
When we have asked for his military records the royal navy refused and said its classified.
So we dont know what he did.
Our family theory is early black ops missions, but we dont know.
If your interested then say because I keep looking for info and I've just done an ancestry test so I'm hoping some info comes along soon.
A few videos i find interesting and would recomend: "White Death: The World’s Deadliest Sniper" that is about Simo Häyhä and "Meth Fueled Finn" that is about Aimo Koivonen who did what the title suggests.
Also fun fact: You can still find old artillery in forests in Finland from the wars that were fought there.
after winter war, we finns had no other choice then ally with Adolf, 1940 after peace of winter war, soviet union put pressure to us on everything, threathing a new war, complicating everything, pressure..pressure...more pressure, so when there is no one else to talk and ask help then Adolf....then you ally with Adolf, there was no other choice, we knew that soviets will not settle fror that land what they get after winter war.... war was coming and we would not face enemy alone again...
Finns and Swedes did actually occupy Moscow earlier on. And Poles after that. So it's not only Mongols.
Finns and Swedes did actually occupy Moscow in 1610.
Southern Finland on average is like USDA zone 6b,but if its cold winter even today minus 25-27 celsius is possible
19:42 Poland captured Moscow in 1610 21:43 Most people thought the same, british did not expect Soviets to last more than 6 weeks, and in time, you would think that too.
Napoleon conquered Moscow too but at the time he did St Petersburg was the capital city
Hors shit..histony ,respet the man,he smile ,oh dear.he has read history
My grandfather fought in winter war and continuation war with germans. His brother went MIA in karelia couple days before mass assault of 1944, just last moments before war would ended with USSR.
Sabaton’s song, the white death is about simo and there is a Sabaton history video on him. 500+ kills with his sniper rifle and more with his sub machine guns…in 100 days of war…yeah legendary doesn’t quite describe him.
"Sniper rifle" in quotes. He used a Finnish-produced M/28-30 (a variant of the Mosin-Nagant rifle) with iron sight aiming. He didn't want a scope since he was concerned it would give away his position.
@@TheRawrnstuff true. I knew that. But to most people snipers generally use sniper type rifles. So this is me being general in my description, for those who don’t differentiate between a rifle and sniper rifle.
Personally I’m looking forward to kit reacting to sabaton history white death video. He will get clarification then.
Simo Häyhä 'The White Death' (World’s Deadliest Sniper) czcams.com/video/JOBxKnM9J2s/video.html
in my place last winter the coldest day was -23 celsius or - 9.4 Fahrenheit
There are bunch of videos on Simo Häyhä in youtube. Other people you should look up are:
Lauri Törni (Later known as Larry Thorne) the man of three armies (he has Sabaton song by that name). Finnish army, waffen SS and US green barret with the slightly questinable honour of being the only SS officer burried in Arlington. All I can say the man was born soldier and seems to have really hatee communists.
Aimo Koivunen, the accidental methead soldier. It is a good story even if not as heroic and impactful as the other three.
And most importantly Marshal of Finland later president of the republic voted the most important Fin in history Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim. There is a good youtube video I think the title is "Mannerheim and his line" or something like that.
Ah yes, the fascist massmurderer Mannerheim, what a great guy!
@@DonHaka Don't forget that he was also a royalist, a Russian Imperialist, officer in the Imperial Russian Army under the Tsar, and led Imperial Russian missions to map and colonize the Far East. He was also from a Swedish aristocratic family, and upheld traditions of the Swedish nobility.
A complicated person, indeed.
The relocation of Russians in Karelia to camps and subsequent starving due to lack of food sounds bad, and it is bad, but we have to put it into perspective with what the USSR did to all the native Karelians during the intermittent peace and what the USSR did to almost all finno ugric tribes. In fact, lets not make it a us vs them, lets acknowledge that Russia is not homgenous at all, but most of the original tribes that used to live in the area that is now Russia were just plain killed and/or sent to gulags. The amount of civilians that were killed by the USSR is tenfold of that of germany in the 40s, but winners write history.
My grandparents from my mothers side were evacuated from Vyborg (Viipuri) after Winter War. My grandfather on that side did fight in the Continuation War, but they did not return to Vyborg during the occupation as far as I know. My eldest aunt had some memories of that time, but she passed away too long ago to tell me much.
I think it's fair to say there were atrocities committed whenever the border moved, and we're not entirely yet come to terms with that, just as we're only now starting to work through acknowleging the political purges after the Civil War.
My grandmother lived in Helsinki when Sovjet bombed it during the war. My grandfather got sent to Sweden for safety, his father fought in the war and later drank himself to death. That is about how much I know about it they never talked much about the winter war.
When I served in 1999 in february it got down to -40 (that is the only number that is same in celcius and fahrenheit).
here in the warmer parts its normaaly like -30c
in the winter
At winter solstice, the length of day is only about five and a half hours in the south where I live. That means the difference between the daily maximum and the daily minimum is typically very small, only a few degrees Celsius. The winter (persistent snow cover) usually begins in early December and lasts until late March here. It's about two months longer in the far north. The typical range of temperature during the winter months is between +10 C and -30 C in the south of the country. The winters in the 1940s were colder than winters have been in recent decades. I'm 50 and the coldest temperature I've ever experienced in Finland was -33 C. It usually gets colder than that in the north or even in the middle a few times for short periods of time during the typical winter but not here. In the coastal areas in the southwest, the daily average in January is a few degrees C below freezing in January. It gets colder off the coast but not much.
It's important to understand that Fennoscandia is warmed considerably but the North Atlantic current during the winter months. The eastern parts of North America tend to have much colder winters relative to latitude than Northern Europe. The weather in January is actually is likely to be quite similar in Chicago and Helsinki, although I imagine the range of variation to be greater in Chicago because there are no mountain ranges running from east to west blocking unseasonably warm or cold air masses from reaching the area. The winters in central and easter parts of southern Canada and the US Midwest and even New England can be brutal compared to the fairly predictable and stable winters we have here. A friend of mine who lives in Toronto told me he has experienced both -10 C and +27 C where he lives within less than one week. We have virtually no ice storms that bring down main electrical lines, a single storm practically never dumps a meter of snow or any such extreme events.
Another one: Russian Invasion of Finland - The Winter War 1939-40 czcams.com/video/pkxbDwsJo38/video.html
The winter was exceptionally cold during Winter War, in Karelia temperatures of -43C (-45F) was recorded. Add in the wind chill factor and that would feel like -60C.
The coldest I've experienced is about -30C (-22F), which is already brutal. Wouldn't take too long to lose a couple of fingers, earlobes or tip of your nose.
Watching from Finland and its -31 C (-23.8 F) in central Finland now. It went down to -44.3 C (-47.74 F) in the north today.
Simo's final tally is more like 700+ in 95 days (i.e. he got shot in the face by Mosin-Nagant that day and regained consciousness after 105th day truce was declared), because he also "hunted" Russian patrols armed with Suomi KP/31 submachinegun on his "free time". He was just a farm boy whose lands were invaded by the Soviets, so that's what you do. Take them out or "Hakkaa paalle!" like we use as the battle cry even today in FDF.
Finland isnt skandinavia the guy was wrong abt saying that
Geographically yes, ethnically no.
Coldest winter I have experienced was -35c. But that is rare. However it is not the record either.
Occasionally and in places -40°C i.e. -40°F usually around -20°C i.e. -4°F during the Winter War.
Both of my grandfathers were wounded in the continuation war. One lost his leg and other got shrapnel in his chest. The one who lost his leg, I never got to meet but the other never wanted to talk about combat experiences.
-30 when its fun good winter, -15 when its subtle
pretty cold, where i live it can be more than -30 Celsius.
It was the coldest winter in a long time, between -22F and -40F.
i have book that has 1939-1945 veterans and fallen in one book from just my town.
You have to remember that there was no one who helped Finland from west. In 1939 Norway and Sweden blocked aid from UK and France. And after Germany invaded Norway Sweden was neutral and supplying Germany with iron. Only country that had resources to aid Finland was Germany. And as they say...Enemy of my enemy is my ally. Finland was never true "ally" of nazi ideology. We just needed help against USSR. And we never helped Germany for their "operation barbarossa". We just advanced to our previously lost borders.
Imagine if we got help from USA and UK....How that single action would had made huge difference in east.
Sweden wasn't "neutral" though. Our government said that it was, but it wasnt.
Can you be little more specific? Like how were you not neutral? I know that there were little over 8000 Swedish volunteers fighting in Finland during winter war but that doesn't break the "neutrality". Individual people can volunteer to anything. Also i know Sweden was shipping iron to Germany which might make someone say that they were with Germany. But i think it was more like ultimatum from Germany so they would not invade if Sweden gave them important things like iron. And Sweden did prevent UK, France and USA to move help to Finland through Sweden during our wars against Soviets. So i'm not sure what angle you are going to take? Those individuals who came to help us or the one where you were helping Germany (maybe because you were forced) and preventing help to Finland through your country which would make you allied to Germany or Soviets?
EDIT: Ok i looked around a bit and found out that Sweden did start to round up volunteers to help FInland during winter war. But was that the government or just some smaller private groups who started to do that or? But anyway Sweden did seem to be all over the place during WW2. @@DonHaka
@@TheGuilty11 Okay so i do want to make it clear that i dont specifically care about Sweden's involvement in the Finno-Soviet war. Sweden and Finland has close ties so its not very strange that we would support them. What im talking about is Sweden's policy towards Germany and the Axis in general. From my pov, there just isn't any "neutrality" when it comes to fascists. You're either with them or against them. Jews in Sweden were marked and the Swedish government wasn't really against the Nazis in any principled manner. Another thing to mention was that Sweden had a world renowned State Institute of Racial Biology, which the Nazis drew much inspiration from.
The soviets were on the good side, the side that didn't want to exterminate entire ethnic and religious groups. There just isn't any excuse to siding with fascists.
I know you like Sabaton, so here is their work on the White Death:
White Death - Finnish Sniper Simo Häyhä - Sabaton History 028
czcams.com/video/xsRjmq5x938/video.html
SABATON - White Death (Official Lyric Video)
czcams.com/video/JRIfWazqIQ8/video.html
12:30 -35C or -31 Fahrenheit is the coldest it's been this winter. Cozy.
In Lapland it's about -35° in here Helsinki it's about 15c° but in here is the wind.
It was -40C. My car didnt start. When it was -30C it felt so warm and my car start. Finnish people are used to cold weather.
czcams.com/video/Uz2Am9Ahy14/video.html
Lauri Törni is also an interesing war time character.
well, how cold it gets here? it depends, every winter is different. now... 2 days ago it was -20 celsius here in central finland... which is colder than normally at this time of year. but i have seen nearly -40 celsius too and i had to wait for my bus to get to the school. the bus was broken so we had to wait extra hour... like 1,5 hours more than normally... and it was also cold inside... lol :D we were just thankful to get to the school which was nice to be inside for whole day. as there is rules usually in finnish school that you cannot stay inside the school between the classes/lectures or whatever they are called... unless its -25 celsius or so.
It is a blatant lie that Finns were sure of a German victory as the documentary claimed - there was a lot of speculation on how things could turn out and in particular, the Finnish general staff deemed German wild dreams of totally annihilating Russia as unrealistic.The Finns thought Germany might weaken the Soviet Union though - but even that was uncertain in the minds of the leadership - it was thought that Germany can only win if they get Moscow by December 1941 - if the war lingers, it would start to favor the Soviets. So by December 1941, Finnish general staff drew the conclusion that Germany will lose the war. But in the meantime, Finns had to choose the "lesser evil" (the Germans did not occupy Finland - like the Soviets planned again in 1940) and Finns did not deport their Jews, nor attack Leningrad (beyond the Finnish 1939 border - Finns were adamant that "Leningrad is not a military goal for Finland, something this documentary "forgets" to mention- Marshall Mannerheim even said "if the Germans destroy Leningrad, the Russians will build a new Leningrad") nor cut the Murmansk railroad, despite repeated German requests and even blackmail.
Detroit won the war for the Moscovites. Just as an example of the numbers, 440,000 trucks were delivered to the Soviet Union. The numbers were mind-blowing. Even Stalin said that without American help the SU would have been ran over.
rock in the hard place indeed - did you know that Finland is the only country in the world that has paid all the "war money"
I'm born 84 and lived most of my youth in middle finland about 400km from southern border. Coldest day that I remember was -37C, I only remember it because I couldn't take my bike to school because the grease in the gears was frozen solid and I couldn't pedal it. So it was nice refreshing walk via ice road over frozen lake. Yeah, it was cold.
Finnish real and "modest" documentary Simo Häyhä is in youtube! No bullshit!
The White Death (Simo Häyhä) - Winter War Documentary - English Subtitles.
With his own interview! He died 2002!
czcams.com/video/b83bJ8ojLSc/video.html
Finland was taken bye Russia from Sweden in 1809 i think. If one finish here please correct me if I wrong. I am just swedish and do not have 100% of this in my head! Finland was for the first time a free country after the Russians fall efter the russian revolution.
That is correct, though Finland received strong autonomy under the Tsar as the 'Grand Duchy of Finland', which had existed as a title under Swedish Kings without really being much of an actual administrative area, but was now turned into an actual administration.
Finland's fealty to then Tsar Alexander I was given by a 22-person entourage led by Carl Emil Mannerheim (funny how that name seems familiar, right? He's the great-grandpa of Marshall C.G. Mannerheim, and a Swedish nobleman), and their negotiations led to Tsar Alexander I to agree to the self-rule after the model already in use in Lithuania at the time.
Since more info was asked ...
If Finland had not advanced to the gates of Leningrad and deep to the East Karelia, Soviets could have advanced much deeper into Finland in summer 1944.
Soviet Union allied with German Nazis in 1939 i.e. much before the Finns became co-belligerents with Germany. Nazis supported Soviet Army in its attack to Finland in Winter War by stopping arms deliveries from Europe to Finland. So if we speak of "allying with Nazis" then Soviets were there before Finland 😎
What comes to the siege of Leningrad ... Leningrad Military District invaded Finland in Winter War, killing thousands of Finns. So Leningrad should have earned the siege by Finns. Unfortunately Finland did not participate in the Leningrad siege even when Germans asked for it. Finland let Russians use the Lake Ladoga route to supply Leningrad. Germans were not happy but Finland had its own goals, and they were only partly same as the German goals.
My fathèr age 2 years old and his sister 1 year old were sent to Denmark and Sweden as warchildren, their mother died during bombings to Helsinki and their father was fighting for our country in the front. My father came back to Finland when he was 6 years old and didn't remember anything, language etc.and his father had new wife and 4 children with her, so my dad was not treated well!! His father was drinking and hitting my dad and mother dead. The war has influenced a lot to our family!!
Simo Häyhä was the sniper!!!
How cold does it get in Finland? My Sami great-grandparents, who grew up in Sapmi/Lapland, moved to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, jokingly referred to it (the U.P.) as tropical.
12:18 It got -35,5 fahrenheit last year but Finland is a coutry with varied climates. While the north is basically iced, south has mild and moist weather during winter. Might be the Gulf Stream.
13:45 He had 500+ confirmed kills. He might have had over 700+ kills.
Proper documentation of him, google Sabaton - Simo Häyhä.
-20 degree celsisus in winter months is the average standard here in Finland, but in that time it was -40C, so in US F-degrees that would mean -20C is -4F in standard, but that particular year it was -40C/-40F. Autstime! Freezer Warning!🥶 For foreigners that is. No pun intended...
"Niin kylmä. että kusi kaarelle jäätyy" (So cold that piss frozen to arc)
Can you imagine life in Lapland, coldest region in Europe, when all buildings are destroyed - every single one?
Yesterday it was -21 degrees in finland
my grandma died in 2016. she never remebered me but she told us stories when her neighbor house was bombed by the russians and she told us stories when they had to leave Karjala. Its so crazy even when you have alzheimers you still remember those scary times.
Häyhä was an exceptional shooter. He won several awards in the reserves and in private competitions through his life of 92 years. But the most important thing of the Winterwar is that it was a target rich environment. Winter War went on for 105 days, Häyhä managed over 500 confirmed kills with his rifle, and 250 with a submachinegun. He sounds too good to be true, but then again, other leading WW2 snipers are not far behind. Häyhäs service came to an end at the end of Winter War, when the Russians managed to take him out during a Finnish counterattack. Häyhä was shot on the chin with an exploding bullet, shattering his jaw. He received corrective surgery throughout his life.
Also, Häyhä used only iron sights to prevent the enemy from spotting him
Here's an interesting fact: shortly after Finland's indepence, the U.S. government gave Finland a loan (roughly a million dollars). The Finns paid it all off in the 1970's. This was IN ADDITION to the indemnities they had to pay the Soviet Union for the Winter and Continuation Wars. So kudos to the Finnish people & government!
that new ally scene is the anakin meme.
I had the honour of talking to a war veteran in the early 90s and he told me how bad places he had fought in. He was a lieutenant in the Winter War. It was so cold that his feet were frozen and he and his battle buddy were in a potero (a hole in the ground) near the potero there was a road where a destroyed Russian tank and frozen dead Russians on top of the tank and on the road. Lieutenant (Antti) and his buddy chopped the frozen feet with an axe to make a blanket ladder for themselves and continued on their way. He said that there was so much iron in the air that his friend lost his head later that day after lifting his head out of the pit to see where the enemy was. It was brutal stuff and he saw a lot of death up close which he suffered in dreams after the war but was still able to live a normal life. Personally, I have great respect for these men who were tough against an overwhelming enemy.
Talking of one such camp is one-sided if they leave all the Soviet camps and pre-war actions in Karelia unmentioned. Check out also the events of Rukajärvi Road (Rukajärven tie) how one tactic was very successful.
Hello there! Thank you for a great video and ditto commentary! The account of what happened in Finland was spot on.
There are several videos about Simo (the Finnish version of Simon) Häyhä on youtube and Google, if you are interested.
Btw, the three vowals in Simo's last name are pronounced like this:
The letter Ä (an a with two dots: like a, as in 'and' and 'hand'. The letter Y in the combination ÄY: as ü (u with an Umlaut in German). This sharp vowel does not exist in English but does in German, French, Swedish and Finnish, for instance. To produce it, say Uber but pucker up your lips as for whistling and blow.
Finland considered - despite the military aid it got from Nazi-Germany, that it was fighting a separate war against the USSR during WWII. There is a certain justification for this was given because the Allies were not able to come to our aid and the only recourse available was Nazi-Germany. Talk about a rock and a hard place...
Oh, and about the Finnish language, the accent is always on the first syllable no matter how long a word is.
How is Chicago doing these days? I lived and worked there approximately from the spring of 1967 to the fall of 1969.
One thing I've learned in history is that war makes us all into monsters. No combatant in any war, no matter how just the cause, ever comes out of it with clean hands. So it was for Finland, so it is today in Ukraine.
Yea...I have a feeling i would become a monster in a wartime 😒 im all good now but
@guanoapes771 you should read the book "Ordinary men"- by Christopher R. Browning. It depicts a German police unit in ww2 and how easy it was for these men to go from ordinary men, appalled and even violently opposed to the actions of the SS. To actively joining them in their brutality, all the while believing they were doing the right thing.
That's a reindeer. Or a caribou for some. A common sight in Finland.