GENUINE DELTA METAL BANDSAW REVIEW
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I have three of these saws 😔 and all three are pre-1960 and feature cast iron wheels. When running, there is enough momentum to prevent chattering. When Delta switched to lighter, die cast wheels, the lack of mass in the wheel-blade-wheel arrangement not only lead to chattering, but also added harmonics into the mix.... Even at woodcutting speeds. Density and mass are always prime ways to damper vibration, harmonics, and chattering.
You got that right. Aluminum wheels may very well be the culprit.
Very nice input. Something about the old machines you just can't replace.
The Alu. wheels on my saw have not been a problem with chatter. Even when cutting 1" steel plate (with the proper blade).
Did a quick Google search and could only find new wood cutting Delta saws and no multi use ones. Price is $1341. Last year I bought an 81 year old DoAll 16" for
$1200. I am amazed at the amount of quality built into this saw, everything is built to work easily and last forever. It goes through 1 1/2" steel like nothing and leaves a wonderful surface. I only hope that in another 81 years someone will be as appreciative of this fine tool as I am now, it will certainly hold up its end of that relationship.
John 🇨🇦
Thank you, I was wondering if they still made the combination saw.
I have a DoAll 1612-0. It's awesome. High, low and variable speed. DoAll still provides support and sells parts.
Nice seeing the history of the saw. I love the old catalogs.
I've had two of the "modern" version of the metal-cutting Delta. My dad bought one in the early 1960s and I bought one in the 1980s. Then I inherited my dad's in 2005. I never noticed any chatter on either one of them. I have always bought variable-pitch blades for metal cutting (4-6 or 10-14 tpi, and always wished for a finer pitch for cutting thin plate) and I generally ran the tension at a bit over what the little indicator on the tensioner recommended. Be sure the mating surfaces are clean and flat and that the bolts are properly tightened where the upper and lower frames connect.
I also had an 18" Delta (wood only) that I got for resawing thin boards and for scroll-sawing larger pieces. The factory switch/starter kept failing until I put a good commercial starter in place of the factory version.
The neatest use of a 14" Delta was on a This Old House/New Yankee Workshop episode in Florida where they were cutting decorative ends on long 6" by 12" timbers. They mounted the timbers on tall sawhorses and put the saw on a wide base with swivel castors. Then they pushed the saw around, cutting decorative scrolls on the ends of the timbers. Very clever, I thought.
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Vari- pitch to the rescue!
I'm a machinist from days before NAFTA. I'm not quite old enough to retire yet. I still have 9 more years before I can retire. But I really love the old school machines. They made them out of steal. You really had to pack your lunch if you was gonna move one is those machines. Now days they went to far with that stamped steal. You need that weight to cut down on vibrations and for security. The reason I say security is because you know that machine isn't gonna tract you down and bite you. And nothing is gonna come apart without a wrench and hammer! Man I miss those days. Oh well, just wanted to voice my text (opinion)! Have a nice day, love the videos.
Totally agree. The heavier and more Massive the machine, the more it eliminates vibration
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0 p
Rockwell/Delta was in town (Tupelo), and i saw the rural community benefit growing up around them was having good saws at the schools to learn on.
Thank you for doing the research. Even though I do like looking at information and purchasing items online, I'm still an old-school guy. I still like looking at paper catalogs and other paperwork. When making purchases, I still like to look, feel ,smell, taste, or whatever I do to make a purchase. As always, thanks for sharing your videos.
Yes, love the old catalogs. The feel the smell. And the whole experience, far better than the sterile Internet.
I have one of these saws that I completely restored about 30 years ago. It has an Art Deco cast iron base, a gearbox with a shift lever, and requires two different belts to utilize all the different speeds. It was missing the belt guard and I searched for 10 years until I found the correct one. It's a wonderful machine.
I have seen that machine in the Delta catalogs. I absolutely love that base
@@mrpete222 It's magnificent, such quality, and the reason I bought the saw ($90.00, worn out). Thanks for the video!
Thanks for taking so much time to research these bandsaws. Very interesting and I watched every second of it. Hope your neighbour invites you back soon to have a cut on it to give you a final answer to blade chatter. Thank again Lyle. Regards from Australia
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Thanks for the extra detail. I was curious and interested to the end.
I totally agree with NBCRGraphicDesign. I have used and owned these saws for years and the wheels are lighter on the new saws. I converted the one I had to a metal cutter and had a few chatter problems, but with the right speed and blade, you can still get the job done. If all you do is cut steel all day, get a Do-All or the like.
Another thing I have used is a Delta 4 Knobber saw with the hollow over arm that had a 6" riser block to increase cutting thickness. This was handy for cutting large Styrofoam blocks.
Always enjoy the videos. I purchased one of these saws from a local high school. It was in the wood shop, and the drive mechanism was cobbled to eliminate access to the gear reduction. I had to get into it in order to restore the metal functionality and clean out hardened lubricant. The gear reduction unit still had cosmoline in it, no oil at all. it does have the hollow cast iron overarm, and the sheet metal base. Just the thing for accurately cutting ballistic polycarbonate without melting issues. Notably, it has a 56 frame motor, so anytime Richard wishes to say goodbye to the 3 phase motor, it is a simple swap. (BTW, 1140 rpm is a 6 pole motor, not eight, which would be 862 rpm.) Not an industrial saw, but a very serviceable workshop saw. How has the little cordless saw worked out. Good luck with your lathe motor project. Just don't connect the start winding across the 220 lines. The start winding connects to one of the 220 lines and the center connection of the two run windings.
Another great tool review video. Much enjoyed, thanks Lyle!
Always enjoy these reviews, helps out with us younger guys purchasing surplus machinery and what to look for.
Good morning. I have the older style which uses two belts demonstrated on my channel. With the 1/2 inch wide metal cutting blade it doesn't chatter while cutting 1018 .25 thick cold rolled. Speaking of big fires in Illinois, I lived in Crescent City in 1970, about three blocks from the derailment.
Thank you, I will watch your video right now. That fire must have been very scary.
I am constantly teaching folks how to machine things and make custom, one off items. It's a craft to those who don't know and it's a passion for those who do.
Very well put indeed
After having several saws i like the roll-in. Good video.
Dear Mr Pete....I love my Delta 14", have had since 1989....but unfortunately, it can only cut aluminum as it is a 3,000 fpm, but the little Wells Saw 300 I bought last week [50,75, &100 fpm]
it has the auxiliary vertical table permanent attached so all you have to do is lift to vertical and you are contour sawing up to 6 inches on the short side....and you can sit on the frame where the vice is if you are inclined like me.....
got the new blades for it yesterday and it cuts like a dream in steel, and very square....3/8 x 3 angle in two minutes with a 10/14 .025 x 1/2" blade....Lenox of course....for that pesky 16, 14 and 11 gauge aluminum, I have a 14/18 blade....
Great show today, and thank you so much for the Christmas card. it was wonderful, came on my 70 th Birthday by the way........best wishes to you and the missus, and I want to see you peddling the bicycle she mentioned.....cheers, Paul
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I bought a Wilton model 8201 bandsaw with a gear box that had speeds from 39 fpm to 3000 fpm. It’s the best purchase I made in 2003 for under a 1000 dollars.
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Thank you Mr Pete, keep up the great work!
I absolutely love looking at these old manuals and catalogues. They immediately transport you back that wonderful, lost golden age of the 1950's... Intensely elegiac and nostalgic!
I myself am very interested in the NRC/DoD atomic tests that were conducted in the Pacific Ocean and the Nevada dessert at this same time. Not to mention that other massive project that was in the works--the space race. It makes me wonder how many of these tools in one way or another were used in those efforts!
I think this (czcams.com/video/1uKJ4GEkZVI/video.html) is a video of the fire that Mr Pete mentions. If you read the comments there are people who saw it happen and their memories are fascinating to read.
Brilliant stuff--looking forward to the next as always!
Thank you for the comment about better times. I just watch that video, I had never seen it.
Thank you sir. The explanation of the drawings in detail made it very easy and pleasant to understand.
Lyle - Another good video, enjoyed the whole thing. One could use the differences in the two saw designs in a machine design course to compare how mass, stiffness, etc differentiates performance. Of course today one could use computer simulation instead of how us old slide rule mechanical engineers learned to do it in the dark past of the 60s. You are correct that those of us in a home shop thing this is fine - I have an old Sprunger band saw that was converted nicely by a retired tool maker and does a decent job for my needs. Not as nice as a Grob or Do-All but then I can't have everything. Keep up the excellent edutainment, we enjoy it.
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Thanks Mr. Pete! Very informative video. Although I have 7 delta machines from the 40s-70s, a bandsaw isn’t one of them. My Powermatic 151 gets that honor. Learned a bunch! Thanks for all the effort on this !!
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Lots of useful information here. Now I’ll know what to look for when I come across any of these saws. Thanks for the detective work.
I’m in that age group of people that have grown up learning on machinery that didn’t have all this safety equipment that actually restricts the use of the equipment. And to add also the bean counters that forced the use of lighter materials that adds to the unsafe equipment. You just can’t beat a well built machine when it comes to performance. That being said I think the upgrade of the motors now makes it older machines even better!
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Good morning Mr Pete. Another great lesson. Keep um coming!! Thanks...have a great weekend!
Yes, I'm still listening and did so until the finish. I use a cell phone for all these viewing activity's but if I should pause the video it has a dark screen overlay pops up. So I have to seize the moment. The gear ratio will be interesting but I will not be reviewing to see what I have missed. The most relevant fact I can retrieve is 40-60 FPM. I will apply that to my abrasive saw so the saw blade I have for that can be used for the longest time. Great video Pete (tubalcain)
Thank You Lyle Peterson!!!!!...Ah... Geee ... Now I know why my cheap-o, knock off, Delta, clone, triple belt band saw is so very temperamental to operate!!!!!!!! Cutting wood.... cutting metal.... cutting ANYTHING (except my finger once, ugh).... I now break out my Porta Band Saw. Clamp the metal in a vice. Make my cut than get back to what ever it was I wanted to do before all my confusion just to get the metal to the size I needed!!!..... TM
Yes
A well designed 14” bandsaw suitable for metal is the Powermatic 143. Hi-lo gearbox combined with 4 belt pulley positions and a stout cast iron structure make it a nice saw to use. If anyone has a chance to get one, don’t hesitate.
To reassure you: yes, some of us were listening AND pausing the diagrams and specifications. While I have used real, industrial bandsaws, my expectations for a 14" saw on a roller base were low. I'm not discounting what you've said about chatter but, I've been pleased that I could get such capacity and capability in a machine that gets parked between a cabinet and the drill press. My saw has the throat riser block and uses 105.5" blades. That undoubtedly made the frame weaker. I have blamed any cutting problems on being too cheap to replace blades when they really should be. You've driven me to expect more and i will look at the whole machine for improvements. Thank you!
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Bought new a Delta 14" metal/wood bandsaw from a local supplier in 1990. Also bought and installed later a Delta extension to provide more cutting height. Overall I have been pleased with the saw's performance. However, over time the dogs get clogged with sawdust and are a pain to clean out. The really slow speeds can only be achieved with fussing with the belt. The extension required shimming to keep blade wheels aligned. In general, universal do-it-all machines should be avoided for job specific ones. I have a couple of metal cutting saws that are better and easier to use than the Delta for metal work.
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I was lucky enough to find one at a flea market. It was lying on the ground with missing covers, petrified cracked tires and no stand. I saw the street elbow on the front of the castings and realized there was a gearbox inside. Mine has the heavier hollow frame rather than the later single webbed frame like yours, and the gearbox has the lever. I mounted a motor behind the frame on a generic bolt together table. The motor hangs on a hinge to provide tension from the weight of the motor. It took a chisel to get the old tires off and I put new silicone tires on. I added an extension kit (generic for 14” saws) and upgraded the guide blocks with ones that include small bearings. It’s early enough that the upper blade guide shaft is hex rather than round. I bought covers and knobs off eBay. It runs well, no chatter that I have noticed. I’m happy to email pictures to you if that’s of interest. I certainly appreciate you making these videos and especially the diagrams of the inner workings of my saw..thank you!
That was a nice flea market find
Great to see the difference, very interesting
Thank you for the in depth explanation. I have a Delta Rockwell in my garage, that I have been wanting to restore.
I always look forward and enjoy your videos especially these comparison videos! I like your auction summary, historical travel log, machining, field trip, interview, what is it, and special videos.
Excellent video, and yes, I did watch the entire video :)
Those dog clutches are ingenious, simple and effective. Good to see how that works. I learn so much here!
Glad you liked it!
Just letting you know, yes still here watch and appreciate your videos in their entirety.👍🏻
Thanks
Is a dog clutch a type of Lovejoy coupling? Would like to hear a tutorial on similarities and differences if there is any. Thank you Lyle.
Thanks Mr. Pete
"Is anybody listening?" Famous shop teachers' words... I think I had a English teacher that used similar words, too!
I picked up a 18" Grob bandsaw a couple years ago. It has ten speeds available and it has a 3-phase motor on it. Installed a VFD and have it setup running at about 120 FPM since all I do is cut metals. It's a pita to change belt speeds, real easy to catch a finger in the process. As always, thanks for sharing. Ken
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I enjoy your information.
Awesome! Thank you sir.
Enjoyed this study and in depth review of Delta band saw engineering. I have one that must be like the 1954 model, (tubular overarm) with a lever in the back to shift the gearbox and open stand as shown in your manual. Bought it from a guy that completely refurbished it, he said it came out of Kodak in Rochester, NY. With 1/4" and 3/8" wide Bi-metal blades I have cut a lot of 3/8 and 1/2" hot rolled steel strip, on the 85 and 115 FPM speeds, smoothly with no chatter. I have cut up to 1" steel and 2" Alu plate smoothly with no chatter. Proper blade (vari-pitch is a MUST) and tension makes the difference. Most times I think blades chosen by some are too high of a tooth count. I tend to use coarser blades. I also should note I tension the blade beyond bottoming out the spring that's on the upper blade wheel adjustment. Ignore the pointer and guide for blade tension, it's not enough. Blade must be much more taunt and have made modifications to allow that. I have the factory guides, but those you showed would be a great improvement. Note, wish the blade wheel doors were hinged. I leave the covers off as they are a pain to take off and on. I will also say I currently own around 18 bandsaws, including a 16" Doall and 18" Grob, Jet, Victor, Kalamazoo, Welles, etc. This Delta is not disappointing, and really is quite capable in my opinion. I am not a dealer, I am a hoarder. Also note: This Delta has Aluminum wheels, the prev. owner must have replaced them.
Thank you for that excellent information. I have used bimetal blades in the past. They are always better, but extremely costly. I wish I had that many bandsaws, L O L.
@@mrpete222 You are most welcome
OOhhh goody, Another Field Trip
Thanks MUCH Lyle....
Mike M.
Great video Mr Pete! I especially like seeing the detailed spec sheets on these machines. I wish I had one of these early model saws, so much more to work with! Thanks for your time and sharing! 👍😎✌️
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Thanks Lyle. Very informative video. I dream of a metal cutting bandsaw in my shop but, I just don't have the floor space. I will remember this in case that changes.
In the late 90's the local hardware store had only a metal one there. All sorts of controls on top and slow speeds. Never for wood. I needed wood at the time so I found one at a wood working store elsewhere.
Thank you for sharing. 👍👀
Another interesting and well made video 👍
I like your chattering, Mr. Pete....
I scored one and love it. I have used it on wood yet only metal
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Stopping here at the halfway point in your video. I have the lever-operated version of the saw, given to me recently & have restored the table, trunions and blade guides and added new tires. Not sure why they want different belts, it seems to run fine as is. I need to braze up a blade for it. Thanks for the information.
Love these saws! Only 4 direct belt change speeds. To reach the other 4 speeds, both 4 step groove pullies must be flipped around. It seems I do recall (25-30 years ago) there was another version that had a worm shaft in the lower casting that could be engaged and disengaged from behind the lower blade wheel for slower speeds. Could have been a different pulley for that slow speed operation as well.
Hey Mr. Pete. I've been watching your videos for several years now, and have enjoyed them all. I wish I could have had access to information like yours and many of the other you tube contributors when I was still working. I'm a retired machinist, and a lot of the things I've learned since then would have made my job a lot easier. Any way I'm rambling. I found this video quite a coincidence. The same day I saw it one of these saws came up at a local auction. I have been wanting a metal cutting band saw for a long time, and managed to acquire this one. It is one of newer type, with the shifting gear box. Again thank you for all the great information.
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I really believe the chatter you experience is the result of the lighter weight arm. I have that bandsaw and use it as a wood cutting machine only and there are times when gutting hard woods such as white oak that I get vibrations as well. I was unaware of the 80pole motor you mentioned.
A old buddy of mine had the early version of this saw. I should of bought it at his estate auction. I lucked out and found a real nice 40:1 right angle drive gearbox at a auction.Stole it for 15 bucks. Had it at my feet during the rest of the auction and everyone and their brother tried to buy it off me. I figure it will be a prefect for a band saw conversion. BTW thanks for your vids.
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Good morning. Yes i am listening.
Thanks for the video
Mr. Peterson, as always, I loved your video and always watch them from beginning to end, since I need the extra credit to make up for all my misgivings as a child! It always pains me to hear you apologize for the length of your videos and ask if anyone is still watching. In my humble opinion, if someone doesn't appreciate the time and effort you devote to creating them, they should surrender their guy card and start collecting Barbie dolls. Thanks again for another very informative and educational video!
Thank you for a good advice. But I know a few things that you do not, because I see all of the analytics for my videos very few people watch the entire video. That is why I constantly say that, but it is not just my videos I have found out that people in general skip around or stop watching videos simply because they are able to and have poor attention in Spans
Thanks for the exhaustive research; it would be very interesting to learn the prices of the various models over the years. 👍🏻
Thank you for noticing the research that I did. not too many people care about such things
I have a 20" Startrite Bandsaw with quite an extreme range of speeds from 50 to 5200 FPM. Its made in the UK and imported by Clausing.
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Great info, never know that the fpm even made that much a difference
Definitely still listening!
Very interesting video. Thanks. BTW, 1140 rpm motors are 6 pole.
Whoops, did I say eight pole?
Very good. Yes, you beat the saw subject to death. So what, I’m a little smarter on the subject of metal cutting band saws and it’s all because of your video. Thank you.
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I’ve been keeping an eye out for one of those Delta metal / wood saws for a long time, I do have the wood model with the 6” riser though.
They are very very rare. I’ve only seen two or three in my life.
I got a kick out of the part in the catalog about it being equipped with the finest saw guides shortly after you talking about putting the better guides on it. LOL
lol
Good morning Mr., Pete!
Yes
Starrett had a bandsaw blade catalog, learned all about blades and speeds. Had a grob with a 24" thoat
👍👍👍 I met Mr. Grob
Many years ago. Actually, I met him twice, once at his factory in Wisconsin, and again at a tradeshow they are wonderful machines.
I was told that my wood bandsaw is the first year of manufacture of the 14” I think that was 1934. I also have a wood built in 1992
I have a Delta Rockwell metal/wood two speed bandsaw. There is a gear shift lever on the side of the ger case. I paid $450 for my saw about 8 years ago.
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I have the Powermatic version of this saw, a lovely and well built piece. In all honesty, I leave it set up as a wood cutter and use my Milwaukee Portable set up in a SWAG Off Road base, works well for me. Never had the pleasure of using a Do-All or other industrial saw.
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@ 12:39 I'm listening with Interest...
Hi Mr Pete I was shooting some footage for a video on my 14 inch conversion and had a 1/2 10-14 tooth blade and where they welded it it had a skip so i installed a 3/8 8-12 tooth count and with the 1/2 in. 10-14 blade it cut smooth and with the 3/8 8-12 blade it is scary cutting thin steel 1/8- 1/4 in. where the 1/2 in. 10-14 count worked just fine . Now on aluminum the 1/2 10-14 was a little slow and the 3/8 in. 8-12 count worked good on thicker 1/4 in. up . My saw is a 90s wood model made in usa and came with 1 hp motor 120v. IL get something together soon so you can check it out . Thanks . JM
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(yelling) Yes, I am here, I am listening, don't stop now! Yes I liked that. Ron W4BIN
Hello Ron
I have never used a vertical bad saw . I have always wanted to re do a wood bandsaw to cut metal but i didnt know if it would be that useful. I got one of those cheap 4x6 band saw and built a stand and table for it so it now a vertical saw but i havent got to use it any yet. I would like to see a video on the uses of a metal band saw.
I hope one day you do an in-depth look into Mr Tautz, the founder of Delta who came up with this design.
That would be a good subject
I have the same saw only it just says Rockwell on it.. also for some reason it keeps popping out of gear when I engage that push pull mechanism it has a detent in there that doesn’t seem to hold and it pops back out.. I had to wrap a rope around the shaft in order to create a makeshift bearing that keeps the push pull mechanism in the pulled position keeping it from migrating back inward and going into neutral between low and high,, I just run it this way until I get the time to actually tear it apart and find out what the Hells going on in there…
Very interesting. I look at what this saw would cost now as getting 2 saws in one. I think it would be worth it.
All ears Mr. Pete!
The backbone looked the same. Maybe the massive gear (huge gearbox) added enough to mass to the drive wheel? The vibration could be not the backbone bending but rather also the wheel speed varying at high frequency. Speculation.
3:24, are the Milkbones in background for the 'Dog Clutches' ???????
Mr Pete, Question have you checked the ridgity of the upper and lower arms compared to each other, how is the ridgity of the saw wheels, how's the table, and yes that wheel bearing guides on your friends saw looks like a nice setup. This is coming from an old machinist who also repairs machines. Thanks for the video.
I did check the rigidity on both machines with dial indicator sometime back. Unfortunately, I forgot the results.
#4 person still watching at 13:38....
I too have the older model, cast iron wheels, no chatter. The swing door bandsaws are very inferior. The original guides are in my opinion superior to ball bearings, @mattias did some testing proving ball bearings are simply unnecessary. Awesome video I watched till the end as always
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I'm still listening @ half way mark
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Mr Pete, you stated that the machine had two shafts, but I noticed that vbelts extended up and down. There must be a third shaft. What’s up.
I'm interested in that upgrade kit your friend Richard put on his bandsaw, do you know where he got it?
Watch the whole video again, I thought I did a close-up of that company
full stop
swap out that three phase motor oh, and we know you have a few just lying around Lyle.
Mr Pete, there is a CZcamsr, Don's Engine, who was inspired by your speed reducer vids and went a little different way to make his own, which works nicely and is pretty cheap. Don did a 2 part vid series on the work. He cut up the starter from a Mazda vehicle and salvaged the 5 to 1 planetary gear reduction parts and installed it onto a Craftsman (!) band saw. Using a proper blade he reports pretty good success. Of interest to me is the inexpensive gear reduction unit. I'm thinking of making one up to install onto a one-year-only 1935 Craftsman-Walker Turner drill press I own to get more use out of it. This is something you might like to look into.
Thank you, I watched that a while back and I will watch it again. I met Don in Florida a few years back.
@@mrpete222 He's a pretty nice young fella. A shop teacher, with a "teacher's heart". I've reached out to him a couple times about a couple of his projects and he was very helpful. You should be able to get a dead gear reduction starter from a rebuilder for about $20.00. The one from a Mazda seems to be best. It makes a very compact, yet strong unit. The steel case would be good to weld mounting brackets on.
Yes,Richard´s saw is much heavier than yours.Thank you.
Great job explaining the difference and showing the catalogs along with schematics. I have restored several of the wood and metal cutting saws, and I'm personally a fan of the older model as it is less prone to clogging up from debris getting into the shifting mechanism. I did a video showing both gear boxes exposed so you can see the difference. Love your channel, I have learned so much from it. Keep the videos coming. Thanks Jim
czcams.com/video/ReBNqBTADPc/video.html
Thank you very much, I will watch your video. I might have seen it before? Glad you like the catalogs.
Vfd
Cutting something at 40fpm must have taken forever
I can't see that being problematic so long as it cuts safely and accurately.
Anybody listening?😂
How can you review something that is unavailable? Delta is done, finished, like porter cable the new sears.
You see them for sale used quite often here in NJ and PA.
It's helpful for those of us looking at used machines. Not everyone gets their tools at Harbor Freight......
My shop’s filled with old Delta machines from the 40s-70s. Videos like these are priceless to those of us with old iron!
Williams Hardware Fire: czcams.com/video/1uKJ4GEkZVI/video.html
Thank you very much, I just watched the video. I had never seen that before quite dramatic. I recognize most of the buildings not destroyed on the fire.