SOMETHING ACTUALLY NEW IN 3DP - Peopoly Magneto X
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- čas přidán 6. 10. 2023
- Thank you to Peopoly for sponsoring this years Eastcoast RepRapFest Coverage, Check them and their new Magneto X printer linked below!
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peopoly.net/products/magneto-x
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Was a bit of a rush getting things recorded saturday morning before the rush when doors open, so some additional details not included in the video
-Printer took a knock during shipping and was unable to print
-While the majority of the hardware is off the shelf, the linear motors and their drivers are in house design
-Now, KLIPPER only sees them as normal steppers, so theres no modification to klippers code for them to operate BUT
-AT THE MOMENT they are closed loop but do not have error corrections, so if it detects a crash the motors shut off
-Some things on the printer shown are not final (again, engineering unit) so things like the fans intaking air from the chamber for PSU cooling, wire management, panel alignment, wire connectors are all NOT FINAL REVISION
@Nero3D do we know if z offset adjustment/baby stepping is still manual? I've heard mention of the load cell for ABL in a couple interviews but haven't seen z offset explicitly talked about. Fine adjustment of that is still a thing in some situations and the status screen looks like it has a menu option for that, but having the machine do it and not having to fiddle with it like the mk4 and bambu units would be really nice.
This has to be one of the worst presentations I've ever seen in the 3D printing world. I get that accidents happen and the printer was damaged so unable to print, kinda. But then that begs the question, does it use a proprietary extruder or something? With that and the super janky table setup it is too much. It's confounding that Marc and Peopoly would be ok with presenting their creation like this. That's not very confidence inspiring. If it were my company I would have seriously debated walking out on this show, or at very least just put it on the ground? Whoever put on this show should be fired, bar none. Sorry to be negative Nancy all over this, but, Nero, I'm surprised you would highlight this, as cool as the tech may be, which, is still a mystery at this point.
@@SkateSoup Its got a loadcell for the nozzle probing, also its running stock klipper so you can adjust offsets and also babystep to your hearts content
*e* nm, I was mixing up technologies, a load cell is integrated into the tool head and uses the nozzle as the point of contact rather than a separate sensor so there's no traditional z offset between nozzle and a separate sensor somewhere else on the tool head. So glad, that might have been a make or break for me as a purchase since that process has been irritating me to irrational levels lately.
I can't see any measuring systems for the closed loop control. Linear scales are very expensive .
Super impressed with the innovation here bringing the linear motors to a desktop printer - wish I had caught the preorder window. Wish this team all the best in bringing this to market.
Hats off to them. I’ve been wanting to see linear motors for some time now in order to eliminate the variability of belt tension, including changes over time.
Oh, they use the same filament as I do sometimes - cheapest if you want to go fast!
Seriously: Marc and his FDM printer are very interesting!
"Best table holder" gave me a much needed laugh. Thanks Raymond!
This guy from Peopoly has such a good energy and you can tell he's excited for this printer. Awesome to see
Sold out? Well that may have just saved my relationship
Fun Fact: Research and development of high speed cutting methodology was advanced most significantly in the late 70’s and early 80’s by way of the Advanced Manufacturing Research Program, funded by DARPA. They were able to achieve cutting speeds of 16,000 in/sec or 406,400 mm/sec. The rapid speeds were higher.
That invisible filament is brilliant.
its their own proprietary filament called invisipoly.
@@senurasenaratne5782 That explains a lot.
Bamulabs x1c "we are innovative you have to change a whole gantry if the bearings go kapoot" magneto x "what's a bearing?" no seriously I love what the did with this machine finally something new with a lot of potencial in the market and it looks very easy to work with and moddify
When I saw it and saw the note I had to ask myself “how many people placed their electronic device on those magnets before they decided they had to make a sign.”
was pre-emptive, they figured people would be leaning over the machine with their phones to get pics/video, better safe then sorry
@@CanuckCreatoryou have more faith in people than me!
Constant magnetic fields will not interfere with most electronics. It’s changes in magnetic field that induce current flow in conductors. If there is an issue with interference from this machine it’ll be from the coils that have switched current resulting in changing magnetic fields.
No one. It is marketing.
My phone doesn't use magnetic tape to store information. They make magnetic wireless chargers. I have passed an 80lb neodymium magnetic over my phone before, and it has no issues. Someone please tell me what I'm missing.
For sure will buy this if everything looks good when the first reviews are out. They could sell those linear motors alone like crazy considering they are probably making them pretty low cost. There are no companies that I have found that sell linear motors that small for a reasonable price. They always want $800 or more for the motor, then $500 or more for a single controller.
Excellent to finally see more details - can't wait to see it print!
Cool stuff. Love the simplicity and the build volume. I am a little concerned about the one sided drive across the back allowing flex left to right at the toolhead when printing across the front side of the bed vs the back side, but it looks like they did a good job making the toolhead's rail pretty stiff. Using the echain trough as a stiffener was clever. The amount of deflection is probably insignificant with input shaper. It will certainly be interesting to see some reviews when it is released.
This is great. Not only is this printer pretty impressive and seems like it could give bambu lab a run for their money. It could bring linear motors down to a hobbyist level for 3d printers and cnc mills.
Run? Assuming this gets rid of most fine artifacts, then EVERY fdm printer is going to be playing catchup.
The only reason it might not give Bambu a run for their money, is pricing. It’s still a $2k (plus extras) printer
@@MoonWind32690I guess we'll finally see if extrusion is causing those VFAs, my thinking is that they've not been selling it as "VFA-free" so it mustn't have solved the issue yet
@Broskisnowskiand the printer just works, while being relatively affordable.
@@ballbous I don't think they are either. But this motion system should drastically decrease them no matter what.
Thanks for showing this and your talk with Mark. I ordered mine on Sep 27, so hope to have it printing by Christmas.
Great interview I think this is the most in-depth one I've seen so far
I’m really happy it works, something fresh and innovative. It’s still to see if for my use the 3 nm resolution can be detrimental or not in a real print.
Why would 3nm precision be detrimental? Do you need inaccuracy for your printing?
@@sonichedgehog36 regular stepper motors with 1.8 degrees on a Voron are 3 times more precise
Great introduction to this incredible printer! Can't wait to see what this can do.
This is awesome! Great to finally see some innovation in the 3D printing world. Bummed it’s sold out already
Now I really wanna see it with an IDEX. not having to do an entirely separate belt system for that would be so cool. I'd imagine they'd have to alter the drag chains through to give 'em room, probably have them rotated 90 degrees and above the gantry rather than resting on it if that's possible.
Damn. I don't even want any of these other new printers anymore after seeing this. Wish I could had gotten in on that presale. This is going to solve so many issues that belts cause.
I want this machine soooooo bad!! It looks so impressive engineerd!
absolutely brilliant! it looks super impressive! good luck with this!
Already pre-ordered, very excited to get the Magneto
I had no idea that was even possible! that's incredible
The only weakness I can see with this design is if foreign particulates on the flat magnets would cause interference the motor function or accuracy. Otherwise this seems like a great idea.
I doubt particles small enough not to outright hinder movement will be a problem for accuracy. They may become a PITA to clean up unless you put some sort of cover or film on top for easy removal.
just cover the magnets on the rail in epoxy... would ease cleanup and keep stuff from sticking. Could put a smal crown in the center to moving any drifting particles to the sides, maybe put a small fan on the print-heads to blow dust off the track.
@@GlueTubber Put a layer of cling-wrap, pull off and replace for clean-up.
I'm thinking this as a speedy machine, paired with an XL for multi-colour would be an excellent combo for makers / sellers that can afford it.
I'm still waiting on my XL 5 head that was ordered in 2021
Agree
This looks really interesting, especially dropping in Index.
1:47 Surprise Samprentice reflection!
If you want to run it with a hotter chamber then perhaps the magnets could have a small water channel running under it for watercooling.
Love the innovation! I also can't wait to see this bad boy in action!
Brilliant! The entire printer is visibly wobbly, but you may potentially fix that adopting a truss frame (triangular mounted beams), I am impressed why this is not mainstream in core XY because a cube frame is inherently unstable (like a 4-bar linkage mechanism)
The printer is not wobbly, the table is. This was on a very cheap flimsy table
What a great use for linear actuators
Hopefully they implement the “firmware upgrades”, is an easy to use manner for people brand new to Klipper. Have seen companies use stock Klipper but have a custom Klipper screen UI and display which can “break/brick”, when Linux OS packages get upgraded.
Any printer with a proprietary interface turns into a pumpkin whenever you want to make any tweaks.
The ideal system for me would be a complete image from the manufacturer for the SD card.
Then, even if it bricks itself, you can just reset everything.
very interesting technology, I'm really going to follow this tech progress
Dang, this looks to have tons of potential!
So tempted lol definitely intrigued with this printer.
I like how the coverage is sponsor s by, you guessed it, the printer in the video. The same one that has a filament sensor but is printing in midair with no filament....
Awesome video, Thanks T. :)
Great video. I pre ordered one the other day .. just like my tiko if this version fails to take off I can still say I have one. But I have a good feeling about this one. . I'd love an explanation of why the z still has... needs lead screws and steppers? Would that motor technology actually need to be mag lev to be so precise?
This is so cool! Im already saving up for one :)
Woo take my view! I missed the pre-Order and I am very upset, I want one of these printers!!!
I'm actually pretty pumped for this! Hopefully you will be able to buy just the rails separately.
Yeah, eventually I'd like to upgrade the motion system on my delta printer.
You can already buy linear magnetic motors they're just incredibly expensive and require more sophisticated electronics than stepper motors. (They're driven the same way as a bldc motor and will require positional feedback)
first of all it has to show that it can print under regular conditions. I have not seen any "live" Print with this machine, so I am not too excited. I know that they said it has been damaged during the shipping or whatsoever but I am never back or buy a printer without see some benchmark parts. Hopefully it can because the build volume is really nice and also the facts at least on the paper are good. Looking forward to see what capabilities it has.
Really interesting! Thanks.
Great idea
I like a lot of the things that I have seen and heard here
Sounds cool. The only negative is that if the Magnetic-based linear motor system dies --- you are forced to get this proprietary replacement part.
There is nothing to die there. , I am sure the driver can be bought separately. Also rails of MGN 12. Just do not heat magnets above 80c
I hope peopoly post a video of the print quality on hi speed.
This would be a great printer, if it has a revo hotend or a similar toolless quick swap nozzle system.
Wpuld love to see if coils on the gantry and magnet in the printhead would bring the x carrage weight down and up the speed
Maybe have the same setup of linear motors on the bottom but with dummy weight to counter the forces from the top?
Only downside is that having the magnets on the cross gantry increases the inertia of the tool head since all the magnets need to move with the tool head (if moving diagonally, otherwise half). If the linear motors were built into the frame of the printer and there was a cross gantry setup that is just carbon fiber linear guides then it would probably be able to move faster.
1500mm/s speed and acceleration 22000mm/s²
I find the use of a support guide in the x-axis (hidden behind the front of machine) concerning as there is now way to completely eliminate play in an unpowered guide. As such, the vibrations will increase as the tool head gets closer to the guide. Its possible that it could be kept to an acceptable level but its less than ideal. I would prefer they drove the guided side by using a single belt loop from the x-axis linear motor. Or, of course, added a second linear motor for the x-axis but that is a bit of overkill. We just need the driving force to applied in-line with both x-axis gantries as opposed to one having such a large moment arm.
And here I thought I was being fancy for designing my latest printer with linear magnetic motor...
This things motor system as a cross XY with dual A and B linear motors would be a beast.
You getting one to review? I'd like to pull the trigger and get the preorder price, but I'd like to see a review.
I have seen a lot of people saying it is sold out now.
Not juts linear motors, linear stepper motors.
Would have liked to see a few sample prints to see what the quality is like.
Ha! Sam Prentice appeared in the screen reflection.
Oh shit, the title was very much not clickbait. Silent maglev printing!
Sold out already - wow!
Yep! I cannot tell a lie. I am one of the early bird buyers!
You made the idea I had 3 years ago. 😮
It is the Maglev of 3D printing. It will still cog like a stepper, though.
This is incredibly cool
Awesome man! .... next will be 5 axis electromagnetic robotic arm to do all the donkey work.
When do we get to see a review or at least an actual video of it printing?
I'd be interested to see some data (resolution, repeatabilty, hysteresis)
You could use that printer to shake your martinis if you don't like them stirred.
I wonder what they are doing for position feedback
hi, were you consciously holding the printer STILL?
I have get to see this thing actually push filament
I suppose the moving parts would be significantly heavier (a rail full of magnets vs modern light carbon rails and light belts, electromagnets vs traditional stepper motors), with all the probable consequences (ghosting etc). The main noticeable thing here is how the whole thing shakes despite the massive frame and reduced speed. Also the mentioned 80°C chamber temp when motors precision can be affected is something of a concern.
Uhm...I think it's the table that is shaking on which the printer is standing on, not the printer's frame itself. There is a lot of abrupt acceleration and transfer of energy happening, so when the printer's frame will not flex, the flimsy legs of the table will, especially due to the added weigh of the printer you mentioned.
@@d1oftwins i don't think they will solve shaking problem. The mass of the magnets and the motor is just too big. They need like 200 kg frame to greatly reduce shaking. Another option is to run counterbalance, but this would double the price.
Super pissed the presale doesn't include the UK, would have been a sure buy for me.
Did anyone else read the quickly flashed caption: "cooling fans are off?" Is that why it's so quiet? lots of shaking going on with the frame.
finally someone made one
Given its a 3d printer convention you'd expect the venue to have slightly better tables.
That's a venue thing. For rmrrf the voron team has a special table built for v24 by a local member
700 mm/s is very impressive considering the amount of weight of the Y axis is with all those magnets. However I like to see it before I believe it 😅
Linear motors can do impressive stuff. I'm in the same camp but if anything is going to do it (maybe even faster?) then I think linear motor technology might actually be the thing.
I imagine the future arms race will be about reducing weight and having stiffness for this design basically.
@@MoonWind32690 Yeah given how much precision you can get out a bldc (odrives) these days I can only imagine this system could perform even better. I'm curious about the acceleration curves of these things.
spero di vedere presto un video in italiano ,velocità 800 mm al secondo ? precisione 3 micro ? tavolo da cambiare si muove tanto
i guess, they will not beat the speed of a belt Core XY printer. The density of Neodym permanent magnets is similar to steel, thats why the moving gantry is to havy and thats the reson why the printer is shacking like a vibrator by moving left/right.
I want one so bad but have ratrig vcore 3 but this things sick.
No belt stretching .... Oh yeah 👍
This is a printer that does not require changing belts. Just buy a new table when the old one falls apart from vibrations.
Amazing
Why not use those linear motors on the Z axis as well?
You lose power and then the bed crashes to the bottom?
I think we ALL need to see print quality.
@Nero3D Do you think this should basically remove all fine artifacts other than extrusion artifacts (drive gear irregularities, filament diameter etc?)
if its anything like the industrial linear motors in $100k+ CNC machines then they have the potential to move smother and more accurately than most ballscrew/servo setups.
This is a real innovation for the domestic user, and Prusa still playing with bed slinger printers XD
I saw 3DPN's video and wanted to order but waiting on some decisions to happen and now the pre order is sold out 😢😭
Lol)) i have one))
It's shaking like a lopsided load of towels in the spin cycle of a washing machine.
Does this machine leave people with a pacemaker out ?
YES! I always said that belts were a very big limitation simply due to the G force. 3d printers are getting so fast that rubber belts simply are not cutting it anymore as again the G force is way to powerful and needs a stronger belt to handle the high speeds.
why are they not using can bus?
That really would be the cherry on top. But hey - its using Klipper so you could easily mod it.
Answer yes or no....is right now the 3d printing sector the most competitive in the world (products related with hardware/software)? I can't think of any other industry that has this kind of competition, brands and models are popping out like mad every second 😮 from bambu releasing their printers to now the amount of new printers is insane and no company can release anything without having another company replying with something alike or better in the next weeks or months.
A maglev 3d printer? I must have one.
Its printing tranparent filament.
Aaaand the pre-order is sold out. D:
If only these guys actually responds to people looking to add to their pre-order. The shipping fees are crazy on new orders wish they would respond so I can just add the chamber cooling fan set up to my order, 100% thought it was included when I did my preorder.
To my understanding, the cool fan doesn't work with the enclosure.
It's a MAGLEV 3d printer!
But it doesn't levitate.
No it isn’t
@@xsolarIt's LIKE a maglev 3d printer there lol
Invisible 3D Print :)
Is cool and all but I don’t see the value proposition over belts and standard steppers. I see a lot more magnets and $$$ only.