VEGAN DIET SCIENCE: Are Eggs Bad? Vegan Bodybuilding? Is Red Meat Bad?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- In this video I'm speaking with nutrition researcher and Director of Examine.com, Kamal Patel. We discuss the ethics of veganism, the potential benefits of a vegan diet and its pitfalls. We also cover topics like eggs, red meat, processed meat, omega-3s, the carnivore diet, advice for vegan lifters and much more!
Check out Examine's Supplement Guide for Vegans and Vegetarians:
‣ examine.com/store/vegetarians...
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TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 Preamble/Disclaimers
2:00 Kamal Intro
4:50 Ethics of Eating Meat
8:54 Personal Struggles with Vegetarianism/Veganism
11:08 Future of Veganism and Synthetic Meats
14:30 Are there health benefits to going vegan? Gut health, heart heart, joint pain, etc
31:57 On balance, is veganism better for digestive health? (Poop discussion)
35:08 Carnivore diet discussion
38:34 Is meat bad? Processed meat? And red meat?
51:18 Why borrow nutrition advice from our ancestors?
57:28 Eggs discussion/ Vegan Gains discussion (cholesterol, heart disease, saturated fat)
1:11:01 Dietary cholesterol vs saturated fat for heart heart
1:14:37 Vegan nutrient deficiencies, supplementation and bodybuilding (omega 3, zinc, iron, B12, protein, etc)
1:34:44 Takeaway advice + elimination diet discussion
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MUSIC
‣ Ryan Little
• Ryan Little - flew da ...
Recorded using Zoom Call and edited by me using Final Cut Pro X
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About me: I'm a Canadian natural pro bodybuilder and internationally-qualified powerlifter with a BSc in biochemistry/chemistry and a passion for science. I've been training for 12 years drug-free. I'm 5'5 and fluctuate between 160 lbs (lean) and 180 lbs (bulked).
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Disclaimers: Jeff Nippard is not a doctor or a medical professional. Always consult a physician before starting any exercise program. Use of this information is strictly at your own risk. Jeff Nippard will not assume any liability for direct or indirect losses or damages that may result from the use of information contained in this video including but not limited to economic loss, injury, illness or death. - Zábava
Her everyone! As usual I've got timestamps in the description box if you want to jump around. For anyone who'd like to skip directly to the discussion about eggs and the Vegan Gains criticism, you can jump to here: 57:20
Also don't forget you can listen to this on The Jeff Nippard Podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts.
And here are the rest of the timestamps. Enjoy!
0:00 Preamble/Disclaimers
2:00 Kamal Intro
4:50 Ethics of Eating Meat
8:54 Personal Struggles with Vegetarianism/Veganism
11:08 Future of Veganism and Synthetic Meats
14:30 Are there health benefits to going vegan? Gut health, heart heart, joint pain, etc
31:57 On balance, is veganism better for digestive health? (Poop discussion)
35:08 Carnivore diet discussion
38:34 Is meat bad? Processed meat? And red meat?
51:18 Why borrow nutrition advice from our ancestors?
57:20 Eggs discussion/ Vegan Gains discussion (cholesterol, heart disease, saturated fat)
1:11:01 Dietary cholesterol vs saturated fat for heart heart
1:14:37 Vegan nutrient deficiencies, supplementation and bodybuilding (omega 3, zinc, iron, B12, protein, etc)
1:34:44 Takeaway advice + elimination diet discussion
Jeff Nippard 👍🌱💪
Can you do a video about the health implications of dairy? I'm lactose intolerant and some of my friends swear that whey gives them acne.
Jeff Nippard you can get b12 from fortified almond milk. And alovera juice. Which you make into a smoothie. You can get all nutrients vegan
In general the vegan argument for health isn't a powerful one precicely because genetics and your lifestlye and where you live can play such a huge part of longevity and disability that there will always be those who are non-vegan but essentially healthy as well.
Yet while that argument isn't powerful, the argument is still compelling. As outside of genetic issues with plant foods, there is little to no negative impact from cutting out meat and eating only plant. Yet there are indications of positive health effects of a well planned whole food plant diet. Add to that the ethical side of things, then why not just stop eating animal products. Is pretty damn easy and only getting easier every day.
Regarding the egg talk, I just read the study that was a controlled randomized one for eggs and it had the same problem as many other similar studies. It is testing cholesterol impact on people who already have cholesterol issues. A high number of participants were taking statins during the study. We already know there is an upper limit to our bodies holding onto cholesterol. We shouldn't be trying to hit that limit as we know that total cholesterol under 160 is needed, and ldl below 60. Sure continue to eat your eggs, but enjoy those statins and their side effects as well.
academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/101/4/705/4564505
As to the issue with biomarkers showing issues but not seeing it in the population, we have to consider the health of the population. for example if we die or end up having such bad health that we have to take drugs to fix things, then it's hard to see in the population the problem with saturated fat because the population is already so sick that it really doesn't matter.
As far as claim that cholesterol isn't just randomly there is correct. it's there because our body's make the cholesterol. We don't need to consume it. We make it, and we make just as much as we need. Some people do have genetic issues that cause their body to not moderate cholesterol generation properly and these are people that have high cholesterol, even when not eating any dietary cholesterol.
Jeff Nippard you're the best. I love your work!
I'm so confused. I watched the whole video, and I got the message that if you don't have digestive issues on a vegan diet, then a vegan diet is a healthy option. The comments section reads like veganism has been blasted in the video. It seemed like a level-headed discussion to me.
He seemed slightly biased against the vegan diet. There's a part where he mentions why he isn't vegan. He said something along the lines of he doesn't have the excuse that he's trying to be a bodybuilder. Hinting slightly at it being hard to obtain protein as a vegan. Which is a massive myth. I kind of clicked at that moment that this guy leans more on the side of meat. Not to any extreme though.
@@davefx7949 you think stating that it's harder to get protein from a vegan diet is a myth? lmfao you know absolutely nothing if you think that's a myth lmao, not only is it much harder, the protein you get from plant-based foods have much less leucine in the protein, meaning you need even more.. idiot
@@JaseWoody Soy, white beans, lentils and even peas contain more leucine per 100g than any kind of meat. It also isn't harder to get protein from a vegan or vegetarian diet if you know what you are doing. It's not surprising that someone who never thought about where to get protein from, if his usual protein sources were gone doesn't know it, but that doesn't make it harder. He just doesn't know it.
"The pattern of amino acids in an animal-based protein is similar to that of human cells, meaning they have a higher biological value than those from plant sources."
Yep. Looks more difficulty, if only slightly so.
Bushmaster 6 the “protein quality” myth has been disproven. If you’re getting protein between 1.6-2-2 g/kg then it really doesn’t matter where it comes from. I get more protein now on a vegan diet than I did with meat, and my body comp is way better too.
Hey Jeff! Derek from Simnett Nutrition would be a great lad to talk with about veganism! He's super upbeat and fun guy.
cOzeify fully agree.
Oh man Simnett and Nippard would be a dream duo to watch
Hell yeah!!
Maybe someone like Jack Norris or Ginny Messina would be better. They are both vegan RDs and try to produce content focused on keeping vegans healthy (veganhealth.org).
Or Jon Venus. I think they are both sponsored by Rise
I'm definitely not a vegan, but people that say you can't build muscle when vegan have no knowledge of veganism/nutrition. Excuses excuses.
Maya Lucia yes
True, which is as dumb as those vegans that say that eating vegan is better for building muscle.
As someone who's been a meat eater and vegan, I can say it's just as easy when vegan. I think it's far more silly when everyone asks me "Do you get enough protein??? There's no way!" It's so damn easy lol
SHIFTKICK well how much do you weigh man becsuse honestly if you are not too heavy it’s probably be easier but the more muscle and weight you carry the harder it is to get that protein . Especially while cutting
SHIFTKICK bahahhaha same, I'm not vegan but my mum is and I've seen first hand how many non-meat options there are that are high in protein
I would love to see a discussion between you and Nimai Delgado.
Nimai’s on a fuckton of steroids tho, nothing wrong with that I use them myself but he’s creating false expectations for people by claiming to be natural to
Kali Muscle AKA Chuck Basher G4P on a dayleee lol a fuckton. Chill bro he’s probably low dose. Definitely not a fuckton.
T T I am a mechanical engineering student (Nimai studied mechanical engineering too) and trust me, some engineers are fucking stupid. He does not have any profound knowledge of the human body just because he is an engineer. He does seem smart though, he bullshits people left and right and they believe him (even if you like him I hope you don't believe everything he says). He is not natty.
lol this fake vegan on steroids
@@Rafaelpotosino1 your on a fuck ton of steroids and look like shit tho
It’s nice to hear someone who is so intelligent use the term “tummy issues” instead of “gastrointestinal disturbances.” I think it shows that he has a humble heart.
A vegan diet is not more expensive. That is a preposterous statement.
If you actually listen to the full segment of the video, he doesn't say that
it can be if you're a super strict weightlifter or competitive bodybuilder due to higher protein requirements
Aubert, soy is cheaper than it's dairy and meat equivalents per gram of protein, and the cheapest protein I've found in the supermarket is lentils. My protein powder also costs a bit less than the whey this website sells, although I don't have enough info here as I'm highly allergic to milk proteins so never used it even before I went vegan 3 years ago. I eat about 3000-3500kcal and 120-150g protein per day and I spend around 10% less on food than I did as an omnivore
Aubert L that's actually false watch vegan hustle
and from personal experience have made pretty good gains on a vegan diet and I have saved way more going vegan then being a meat eater
I listened to this on ITunes. I’m a vegan for 7 years, and also a registered dietitian. This is very much in line with what I usually recommend to patients. Basically follow a Whole Foods plant based diet, and if they eat meat then to make it more of a side item, but emphasize plant foods.
Im not a RD, but CNC, but i would not recommend to leave out animal-protein, or make it a "side item", people should eat what they want, that helps them keep their weight, and getting their protein, and micro-nutrients. And yes, i have been plant-based 2 years myself - but i would always weight science over bias.
@@EmilEngholmSrensen that makes sense because nurses in general give the most cringe advice possible. if you’re giving that advice to Americans then you are dumb as hell because this is the fattest most obese country in the world. Telling the country that produces my 600 pound life to eat whatever they want is like offering crack to a drug addict. Get out of here with that weak dumb ass shit. Whoever you told that to ought to sue your ass for impersonating a nutrition professional.
Bro you don’t know your face from ass!
@@EmilEngholmSrensen True weigh science over bias. And it's quite funny because my opinion in contrast to the op is "eat unprocessed animal products with plants being a side tool" but that's my bias the truth can be something else and it is our job to find it.
Plant based for a year now and have never felt more stronger and healthier in my life.
You eat eggs? Fish?
@@j.dariorodriguez7173 what do you think "plant based" means dipshit?
@@menelikm9779 woah calm down
@5th dimension personally I've been vegan for 3 years and feel great. Did a blood test in january and my iron & b12 levels were extremely good, very low cholesterol, etc.
Give it time. You’ll start feeling s**t soon.
Veganism is a very nutrient and vitamin deficient diet.
There is not one peer reviewed, double blind clinical trial that shows grass fed red meat is harmful for you. Not one. Most propaganda that drives the employees of dietary recommendations and standards are based on poorly designed epidemiological studies (basically surveys) which don’t differentiate between cured meat, charred meat, grass fed meat and other dietary habits.
Hey Jeff, thank you so much for this podcast, I found it really interesting as it is not pro vegan but explains the pros and cons (health-wise) of the diet. I am vegan and I have read a lot of books written by plant based doctors. These books are great, don't get me wrong, and they help me to eat as healthy as possible. However I'm glad you didn't interview a plant-based doctor as I feel like they are stuck on one side of the argument. The ethics and the environment issues brought me to the vegan diet so I could never go back to eating animal products, but an open conversation on the subject of health on a plant based diet is always great to hear.
So anyways, thank you, that was great. (I'm glad you care about ethics too.)
oh okay... now stop talking and tell me your ex-vegan testimony ;)
@@ManlyServant vegan for 6 years. Never felt better. Dont plan on ever reverting
This was extremely insightful, I figured it might be a little boring but it wasn’t at all! I really enjoyed this one guys.
You should have put the baseline cholesterol levels of that study on screen.... Never forget that the "normal" cholesterol levels is actually really high, because most people have high cholesterol. Optimal LDL levels are between 50-70mg/dl and optimal total cholesterol is below 150mg/dl, that's found to be the "bulletproof" levels for heart disease...So, will eating cholesterol raise cholesterol? It depends on the baseline level. If your cholesterol is already high, the receptors are already saturated, if not, it will raise your cholesterol...you all need to read Dr.Caldwell Esselstyn trial studies where he reversed heart disease by cutting cholesterol and saturated fat...that's the only diet, ever, to been proven to reverse heart disease.
The evidence is pretty clear on that, show me a non-industry funded study, with people that start with a LDL of 50-70mg/dl that is not raised by eating cholesterol and I'll consider.
Also, if you talk about eggs you need to talk about choline and TMAO that will be produced in our intestines. TMAO is linked to heart disease as well.
Lastly, runny eggs? Don't mess with that shit, if your're still eating eggs, boil them well. The institute of medicine recommends 0 cholesterol per day! 0!!!
www.onlinejacc.org/content/43/11/2142
Now for some anecdotal evidence, my case: I was 17 years old or something, on a Bodybuilding diet with 400-500grs of meat a day plus 2 eggs. Worked out 9 times a week, at least two cardio sessions, didn't eat processed food, and it was all "lean meats", had a very healthy weight and was pretty shredded, ate veggies with every meal, 3-5fruits a day still had a total cholesterol of 156mg/dl. Which is above the limit
Then I went whole foods plant based,(did eat a little more veggies and fruits) but stopped all cholesterol containing foods and my total cholesterol drop to around 100mg/dl with LDL being 74mg)dl...so yeah, eating cholesterol raises your cholesterol
Every serious health organization doesn't include eggs, wonder why people still discuss this? hehehe honestly, I don't care about the absolute truth just enough but one thing I know for sure is I had high cholesterol before I went vegan and had "the best results seen on the year" by the doctor after, so that's enough for me!!
Rafael Pinto hit them up with the facts my dude.
Gabriel Martins that's true. Every Health organization is against cholesterol. We can still discuss it, but that just means the evidence is overwhelming...
Every Health organization...that suits your agenda? If i look at various pyramids of various organization i see eggs and meat somehwere in larger or smaller amounts..when is an organization neutral and legitimate? Only when it advocates a vegan diet ?
What is the legitimate definition of "normal" baseline cholesterol? Are these the levels babies have when they are born? Who decides that 50-70 is normal and ideal for health? If only vegans reach these levels maybe its because they just stay away from junk and overeating in general?
Nimai Delgado, Jon Venus and Naturally Stephanie are great examples of vegan bodybuilders who thrive on whole foods plant based diets. Protein is really not an issue for vegans. The standard north american diet consumes too much protein, much more than we need. Even for bodybuilding, it's easy to get more than enough protein on a vegan diet
Not sure about Venus, he doesn't look natural. If someone juices and is vegan, they're not a good rep for veganism because their gains are the results of assistance in addition to plants.
VeganHamstress46 all "vegan" body builders are on roids. And they also lie about their diets.
They all juice no matter what they eat.
@@colacp either way you still need that protein to build the muscle in the first place.
The last line was from a documentary on NetFlix. If you take your information from Netflix, that says a lot of you.
Try and read about "vegan food companies", maybe you will understand how things work about consumerism.
What an amazing conversation. Please speak with this man more often as there was so much detail to absorb.
I always quote Paracelsus who said it already over 500 years ago: "Solely the dose determines that a thing is not a poison.". As long as you don't have a special disease, I would say you can rely on that quote.
Amazing content!!! I have been vegan now for two years and have been bodybuilding for about a year and a half, so you can imagine how excited I was when I heard you would be making this video. I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass and don't suffer from digestive issues eating this way, but I agree with the overall statement that everyone's diet is unique to themselves and that self-experimentation is key. Keep up the great work ^_^
It's so refreshing to see a friendly open minded vegan thank you!
I grew up vegetarian and was bullied by meat eaters even though I did not judge them
Now I eat meat (for my own health reasons I did not do well on the vegetarian diet that was forced upon me for ethics over health) and now I get bullied by trendy vegans who ate meat when it wasn't popular to be vegan
I don't know why people feel the need to bully others over their diet
We are all unique and need to take care of ourselves in the way that's best for us
@@sabrinakurosawa5516 totally agree! At the end of the day knowledge is power and I just encourage everybody to do their own research and understand where their food and other resources come from. Of course I'm always happy to discuss veganism with individuals who actively want to learn more about it, but people need to reach their own conclusions about what is optimal! It is not okay that you were bullied
@@sabrinakurosawa5516 Vegan/plant-based are two different things. Veganism is to protect animals from suffering and exploitation while plant-based is merely a diet choice. That's why so many activists are considered vegan and try to lessen the consumption of meat in every shape or form.
@@mertcanozbek1975 good for you if it works for you do you
I didn't find it was terribly relevant to what we were talking about though
Absolutely loved this conversation, I've been rocking the vegan diet for 2 years now and am planning to get bloodwork done very shortly when I have my full physical to see what kind of things i'm low on. But currently, I'm up 25 pounds (5'10, 160lbs, now at 185lbs) from where I started, I switched cold turkey, and immediately started full body barbell training. My lifts right now Front squat- 225lbsx5, OHP- 145lbs, Bench Press- 225lbs, Ring Dips- 110lbs, Pullups- 60lbsx5, Deadlifts- 345lbs. I can definitely attest to the digestive struggles, there's some things like oats that I just can't eat in the amounts that I was. A lot of trial and error, but it's working for me!
Love these interviews. Great job as always. I’ll be literature diving now!
THANK YOU so much for this pod cast, and taking your time to sgare this.
i personally needed to hear this during this time of my life cleaning up gut issues and building body back up.
Information here is priceless confirmation...
One of the most comprehensive & intellectually honest discussions I've ever seen on this topic. Will take me several views to digest -no pun intended- all this information.
*intellectually dishonest
@@menelikm9779 explain or GTFO
39:59 explanation about healthy nitrates from plants. Love it!
Hi Jeff, I'm not interested in critiquing the video as multiple of my other plant-based bros are doing it below, but it could be interesting if you did a short-form video on plant proteins. Remember it's not only vegans who need these, for example I've always used rice and pea proteins (before I went vegan) as I have a pretty severe reaction to whey, and among your non-white fans up to 90% of Asians would have the same troubles. So even if you decide that milk proteins are just better for yourself, they may not be for a lot of individuals, perhaps even the majority of the world (based on rates of milk intolerance in Africa and Asia)
Thanks for bringing these topics to a new audience regardless :)
About time! So excited and glad you took this head on. Very much appreciated!
listened to the whole video thanks for asking Kamal Patel questions I thoroughly enjoyed the video and learned a lot from it! Keep it up Jeff this and videos with people like John Meadows are a great addition to your monday study vids!
Been vegan for a year now after realizing what meat and dairy was doing to my health. Also wanted to see how it would affect my lifting. One year later, I'm happier, more energetic, and have a LOT more muscle mass. Do I think everyone will feel this way after transitioning? I'm not really sure, but you have to know what to eat and what to supplement in order to make it perfect like any diet. The vegan gains are real 💪🏼🌱
Excellent content Jeff! You did it again!
Brilliant podcast! Really informative, especially the points on how different diets will affect people differently. Great job!
I've been waiting for this video! So excited to watch
50 seconds in so excited for this info and discussion 🙆🏽♀️
You better talk to Mic the vegan, dude is really informative and educated, with lots of proofs and studies
medved1990 cherry picked.
He’s the most unhealthy looking dude
Are you serious? He looks hot
Have been a sub since just before the first volume round table. I'm truly happy you've found such tremendous success since then, but I missed this sort of more in-depth conversation with scientists on topics they study actively - really on board with making this a more frequent thing, Jeff!
The environmental effects of certain animal products is what's most important to me
Yeah same goes for me. Tbh i don't care too too much about animals. I care a lot more about us humans and our environment.
Mono crops are just as bad and destroy the land
FOURTEEFIVE definitely bad but not as same as animal agriculture. Remember animals have to eat a fuck load of plants/grains and water so they use up more resources for very little meat and use up a lot of land if organic grass fed but if factory farmed it would be better for the environment overall but still bad. What about all the waste from the animals you know where that goes right? And on top of it all the transportation used. And more. Plus when you pick an apple it grows again. When you take anything from the animal that’s it. The animal is dead
FOURTEEFIVE
up to 50% of the US in land (imported food included) is used for animal agriculture, almost 95% of soy is used for feeding animal agriculture. Think about how much soy and tofu are out there and that is less than 5% of what we feed the animals.
You mean all
Bless you for time stamps
REALLY LOVED this video Jeff and Kamal!! Please keep up the awesome work and sharing this kind of information! Truly very informative
Love these long and thorough interviews!!
Yes!! I was waiting for this video!
Nuanced science is like a breath of fresh air. Thanks for this!
I gotta say Jeff, you are the best fitness channel on youtube brother! Keep up the good work!
Great discussion, and thanks for the time stamps as well!
Quinoa is high in BCAAs, (and close to 100% bioavailable) but eat tofu and beans and you’re cool. You don’t need to multiply it protein by 2 lol. Soy is 95% bioavailable. Beans are about 75% and high in protein.
That shit is gross tho.
The DJ tofu is disgusting
None of it is bioavailable without animal fat in the gut. You cannot absorb nutrients without fats. Grass fed beef, thru the process of digestion within multiple stomachs and regurgitation, has a very high CLA content and has a very good Omega-6 to Omega-3 ratio, unlike chicken.
Aren't beans high In estrogen though?
oMg This guy actually held up his talk addressing eggs with vegan gains monthsss ago! Holy
Thank you very much for this video and the time both you and your speaker set aside for this interview. Really useful. 👍
Thanks Jeff, excellent information here that has answered some nagging questions I've had about my current diet!
The ONLY reason people eat meat is because it tastes good. We do not need meat to be healthy/muscular, especially not the amount that is consumed in the US. Try discovering other foods that taste good, and cut back on the meat consumption. If you eat meat once a week, you are doing the world a huge favor and you will also start appreciating/enjoying the meat you do eat more.
There's more than just taste. I began eating a LOT more meat when I started lifting.. Then even more meat (lean especially) when I tracked my macros. There's very few vegan options that pack the same protein punch in as few calories as chicken, turkey, or fish!
Why are vegans not knowledgeable about why we eat meat? Our brains would still be tiny if didn’t starting cooking and eating meat.
I actually dislike the taste of most meats, I only eat it because my apetite is pretty small so it makes it more comfortable to get protein in
@@SheenaT73 if thats true why dont lions and other carnivores drive cars bruh? wouldnt their brains be massive from alllll that magical brain growth rotting corpse? and its actually proven to be cooled starches that contributed MOST to our brain development, straight from harvard
not to mention Omega-3s especially appropriate EPA/DHA ratio which Vegans never talk about.
Do an interview with Nimai Delgado, Simnett Nutrition, or Jon Venus. That would be great to see.
Not Jon Venus
@@nb9797 definitely not Jon Venus
Hi Jeff. I love your videos and was wondering if you could make a comprehensive video on nutrition, programming , and supplementation in regards to junior lifters in the age range 12-18...?Anyways, thanks for always putting out informed quality content. It has served me well.
Such a fantastic discussion!!! Thank you Jeff for this information , I highly do appreciate it !!!!
Hey Jeff I respect you very much and found this video very enjoyable. I’m a vegan bikini athlete and I would never touch any animal products again even though if would be more beneficial for bodybuilders. With my science background I found this interesting and would love to have few good arguments but comment section on CZcams is not the place haha. But as much as there is scientific research I think it comes down to everyone is individual. My experiences with vegan diet have almost always been only positive. My latest prep I lost 12 kilos and the ratio of fat mass compared to the muscle mass I lost was pretty astonishing. I retained muscle the same way or even better than a meat eating athlete would, which comes to show that great planning and structure on vegan diet is no inferior to meat eating diet. Again, this is just one example. But my point is that if you are a bodybuilder and want to go vegan for whichever reason it is IT IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. Meat is not the end all be all to be competitive level athlete it’s just the amount of effort you want to put into it. I encourage everyone who is even slightly thinking of doing it just do it! Do your research, experiment with yourself and find a diet that works for you! 💪🏼💪🏼 If you are passionate enough of what you do you will make it work :)
all science-y then "pooping" 😅
Absolutely stellar quality of the podcast - I know quite a lot about nutrition, but I still learned a ton here + got a few interesting papers saved for later.
Awesome discussion really enjoyed it!!!
I eat a pretty balanced diet, leaning more towards Keto, but I do enjoy lentils. legumes. I honestly am not sure of this conversation... I think the scientific literature is pretty clear on eating mostly plants and less meat (especially processed meats). Anyway, obviously no links to studies provided. I am pretty disappointed that you picked this person for the conversation. Dr. Gregor would have been much better (nutritionalfacts.org).
While Dr. Greger means well, he makes wild statements that aren't true or accurate, that reduce his credibility with me. "mad cow is the Black Plague of the 21st century" - meanwhile it's extremely rare.. and he claimed that a single meal rich in animal products can "cripple" one's arteries.. completely false.
I agree completely. I could say the same for this very video though. If you listen to them, they are jumping around to specific issues without talking about the whole picture. It sounds like a cherry-picked conversation. Non-conclusive conversation. We need to drive home a point. I love Jeff, but he is very clearly avoiding taking sides with anyone, and instead, trying to please the masses. And that is apparent in who he picked to interview here. Instead of picking someone with a stronger stance on veganism which could have been more interesting.
I wholeheartedly agree. I am not in Ketosis :)
I should have said low carb! Sorry
You need to listen to different point of views, nutritionfacts is vegan propaganda. Not a good source of nutritional information at all.
I have been vegetarian for the last 1.5 years. I am less sore at the gym, more energy, feel lighter and less guilt as i am not contributing to the disgusting animal cruelty industry. Society has made the term "vegan" to have a negative meaning to many people. I try to be vegas as much as possible and am 95% of the time. Going Vegan is honestly one of the best decisions of my life!
I was vegetarian for almost 20 years and feel much better and healthier on a meat based diet now. Honestly, most vegetarians and vegans I know are surprisingly unhealthy, compared to the omnivores, despite caring much more about health and lifestyle. I think most of the pros people list sound like placebo. I haven't felt any difference when starting to eat meat except for some health issues (e.g caries) going away. In the end I think we are omnivores for a reason, we should eat a healthy mixed diet consisting of everything in moderation.
@@quAdxify as I wrote this a few years ago, I’m now vegan for a few years. Very happy with the decision! 😊
@@SD-zx1uh Everyone is different, if it works well for you, keep at it!
I’ve been vegan for past 30 yrs, I now have the ability to read my minds
Super informative and interesting as always! thanks jeff!
Wow, what an amazing video. Outdid yourself again Jeff! So interesting, learnt so much. Thank you!
Wild caught fish is terrible for the environment.
ALF96 but oh it’s so YUMMY TASTY BITCH! And it’s healthy for ME. How the fuck is it terrible? Shut the fuck up, trying to prove your stupid ridiculous agenda
Explain the environment claim?
brentprodz yes I am the one who hasn’t had a real father to teach him real life values. Instead your mama fed you compassion soup. Good luck with life you will need it
wild caught fish is terrible for the environment, yet man has done it for over 42,000 years with nearly zero impact to the environment, and millions of years by other animals. haha
Damn people are getting nasty. I was just referring to bycatch which combined with pollution, overfishing etc could collapse the oceans fish stock.
My question is why this guy thinks it's immoral to kill farm animals, but not fish... Just because they lived a free life beforehand it's ok to kill them??? Im not a vegan, but that logic is completely flawed, if you are okay with killing animals own up to it, but Don't try to justify what situation is ok to kill.
fish actually do not feel (pain) as humans and other animals do. at least not to this extend. IMO it is a better choice.
@@CodepageNet they have a will to live.
yes. i see this whole discussion this way: the reality of almost ALL animals is dying by being eaten. and not dying in a nice way, out of human view. to me, it is not a problem that animals are dying when providing meat. the absolute catastrophe and disaster for the animals is how we keep them alive. for me thats the reason to live consciously, at least try to limit the meat intake, checking sources, not going for the cheapest etc etc.
a fish's fate in all likelyhood is being eaten. humans or no. that doesn't matter so much, IMO
@@CodepageNet I disagree, if you are going to argue for the benefit of the ecosystem I would say farming is better. At least with farming we replace everything we eat with another cow so that we don't kill the cow population. When people hunt animals like fish we hunt them to extinction since we consume so much without doing anything to return the population like you do while farming. The reality is many fish populations are going extinct because of over fishing. So in terms of catastrophe eating fish is far worse than farming.
SamuelMM I agree with that also! Everything has if's and but's. Anyway: i was refering to the suffering aspect of fish versus "higher" animals.
Wow so helpful Jeff! Thanks so much for sharing this!
I like this guy, he is so well read, funny and professional. Great job, the both of you!
Excellent discussion! Kamal really knows his stuff, and is great at explaining in layman's terms. I can also vouch for the effectiveness of an elimination diet. I did one earlier this year for 90 days, removing several staples that i found i was sensitive to on a food sensitivity test, and i found some that gave me much great trouble than others. So now i can limit intake.
I did have a question though regarding iron overload. An old school practice among bodybuilders was popping desiccated liver tablets like candy. I want to say it was Vince Gironda that was famous for recommending large amounts (with some saying he recommended cycling them). Considering how much iron is found in those tabs, is this actually a somewhat risky practice? Perhaps risk can be somewhat mitigated by frequent trips to donate blood?
"In a 100 g of quinoa, you have 120 kcal and 4.4 g of protein" - this is a lie, plain and simple. 100 g of quinoa has 368 kcal and 14.1 g of protein.
He didn’t say he was talking about quinoa with water. It’s like if someone said "Chicken with a vegetable broth has berely any protein, hence meat has little protein".
He can make whatever assumption he wants, but the comparison is useless in this context.
It is true that grains must be consumed with water, but it adds no nutritional value to the food. You will simply pee out the surplus water and it will have little impact to your nutritional goals. You will have to drink less water separately. And yes, Jeff has to drink water and quite a lot of it.
This begs the question: why play with useless numbers instead of actually comparing those foods? I mean, Jeff isn’t stupid or something.
Excellent interview! I visit examine.com often and was quite pleased with the amount of info in this interview, kudos!
Kamal is incredibly knowledgeable. Great guest. Well done, Jeff! Looking forward to more.
Being plant based I definitely recover faster and have way more energy.also since not eating dairy I havent been sick in a very long time
Out of curiosity: what was your diet like before going plant-based?
@Pat Swayze Something like ~60% caucasian decent, 80% of african decent, & 95% of asian decent have some kind of intolerance to dairy.
I'd bet that the majority of people would do better with health just with reducing or removing dairy alone.
I'm smelling some drama, I press like.
the eggs loo/lll
😂😂😂
I'm seeing some dislike, I press like
aspi rine With a comment like that would you expect anything less!!
Lol
Great video really enjoyed it as usual! Keep it up!! Big fan of your content!!
You titles it vegan diet science, but I think anyone on any diet can get some great info out of this. Love the work your doing.
I switched to a mainly carnivore diet about 2 years ago and cut out almost all processed food, and I feel amazing and have cut my body fat in half. I know others that are on vegan diets and say the same. I think the point that everyone's body is different is absolutely true. Try new things and find out what works best for YOUR body.
You make too much sense - find the diet that works for you. Many vegans are radical. They have a particular worldview they want forced on the world. Of course you won't hear from them again when depression, loss of hair and general ill health sets in. I usually can tell a vegan by their pale complexion.
In regards to a vegan source of B12, Spirulina has tons of it. A serving of fresh frozen spirulina has about 200% of the daily recommended dose. Good insights as per usual!
It depends if your plant milk is fortified. Some popular US brands, for example, aren't fortified. Silk, for example, isn't fortified any more. I opt for supplementation just for reliability reasons.
I mean, animal feed is fortified with vitamin B12, so it all comes down to what you'd rather do. Feed an animal a B12 supplement then kill said animal, or just take the B12 directly. Seems a bit moronic to include the middleman out of a fear of pills.
Thank you for doing this interview Jeff.
Very interesting and insightful, and what pretty much seemd to me like an unbiased talk about vegan nutrition with the main focus on health and nutrition, which is very important to me, since I went vegan mainly for losing weight, feeling better and overall reduce the risk of any chronic or/and other deseases in the future
Veganism is the future, next step in human evolution. How animals are raised is not the problem. Taking a life when there is no need is the problem
Peter.plantfueled. Lima so when did you realize you were a little bitch?
Jared 11B not wanting to kill innocent defenseless beings for an unjustifiable reason = being a little bitch ... Ok
Seems you need evolution 101.
Veganism is a karmic free diet
@BF TE
Those animals we raised for food would never have lived in the first place. Seeing them never born is no better than eating them.
Feed that factoid into your karmic woo machine..
Hey all, Kamal here. Thought I'd address a couple points that came up in the comments:
I didn't get into it in the video, but I have a genetic condition called Ehlers-Danlos sydrome. This causes me, among other things, extensive joint pain and subluxation (faulty collagen production in joint connective tissue) and gut dysfunction (mast cell overactivation in gut mucusa, impaired gut motility, etc). That and a variety of failed joint surgeries is the reason my wanna-be powerlifter days ended a decade ago (although my total never went above 1100 or so).
There are literally tens of thousands of studies on different plant and animal components, and there is no easy conclusion that summarizes them. So there's no one-size-fits-all panacea, and that's why a wide variety of pros and cons come up. I fully appreciate the results of patients who've seen success on vegan diets for their conditions, and of those who've seen success on other diets (Mediterranean, keto, what have you). But everyone's different, due to epigenetics / gut microbial differences / etc.
Kamal, forgive me but I do not know anything about your condition but I developed reactive arthritis after steroid injections after a car shun. Reactive arthritis is an auto immune disorder so there may be a link here as you mentioned the gut. Most diseases start in the gut and as the 2nd brain controlling many body mechanisms it's important to tackle your gut. Myself I feel like I produce no lubrication to my joints with synovial fluid should my immune system be low due to lack of sleep ect. I take selenium solution by allergy research group and a zinc supplement. I avoid gluten in the form of bread but not sure if that makes a difference but people who take glucosamine do so because it makes there joints feel better because the type of sugar in glucosamine gets eaten by the pectin / gluten hence some people feel the benefits. Hope this is of some help. (Will watch the vid later)
Indeed, reactive arthritis is one of the most gut-linked arthropathies. Recent evidence has linked common food-poisoning bacteria to it, include the strain of E coli involved in the 2018 romaine lettuce outbreak. Cross-reactivity with unsuspected food antigens is also common, hence why elimination diets can sometimes work wonders.
Good luck to you!
Sorry that you had to give up your powerlifting career.
Kamal Patel Thanks for the info!
What do you think of as vegan protein sources and why do you think you need them to thrive? I'm guessing you're thinking things like beans peas lentils etc. Well, bananas are a vegan protein source, potatoes are a vegan protein source, spinach is a vegan protein source, so is rice and so are oranges . You don't need concentrated protein. The human body needs very little protein.
This is a great video! The analysis on studies really opened my eyes. People take those conclusions as gospel and dont tend to look into the research methods or any other aspects that mightve affected the results
Awesome video, love the thumbnail😂 could you make a video about pre-bed protein and then casein in particular. Theres been some studies about how pre-bed protein can increase building muscle as during the deep sleep cycles your body releases more growth hormone. Though how many protein should people consume before bed and should this be a mix of whey and casein? Whey for the first deep sleep and casein for the remaining cycles (every 1.5h). Would be awesome to get some more scientific info about this
Great topic. I appreciate the fact that the conversation was calm and argument-balanced and not just looking at a vegan going full "flower power" and contradicting everything with "but animals hurt and cholesterol" and more importantly being very aggressive to the other speaker, trying to shove their lifestyle and OPINION on the other party. I get ethics, i also would love it if all our animal meats were raised in an eco-friendly pleasant environment but having so many mouths to feed i also see the necessity and the extortion of animal life in order for big companies to profit. Not everyone enjoys eating so many plants, i personally get extremely bloated eating even a few spoons of legumes, i tried the vegan diet. But i found it impractical for me. So i stuck with pasture raised eggs (about 4-6 a day), minimal cheese, goat milk and yogurt (it's amazing), fish and occasionally some beef. No chicken.
This was a very interesting watch. Anecdotally I feel my training has improved since I went vegan. The world health organisation says a vegan diet is suitable for all stages of development including for athletes so most people should be fine on a vegan diet. I did it mostly for the environment, though health and the animals were also factors. Excluding having a rare health issue there isn’t a good reason not to be vegan. Though I'd also be happy if people just reduced the consumption of animal products due to the state of the environment. There are also examples of vegans showing excellence in most sports.
Kurt McIntyre WHO is full of shit
@TheNecrohazard The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics is the largest organization of dietitians in the USA.
@TheNecrohazard those are even more full of shit
Amazing! Very informative..and def learned a few things.
I've been waiting for him to do this for a long time
I wish I would have seen this video 3 years ago when I first went vegan. I ate meat every single meal for 25 years straight, then went vegan cold turkey and did not even know how to be one, I was eating like a rabbit. 🤦♂️
Are you still a vegan now?
@@jamessiguenza5721 unfortunately, since turning vegan he is no longer in this world.
@@mohammedqasim3657 kaboooom true
Thank you so much for making this video! I am vegan for ethical and environmental reasons bc I have never been able to trust much of the food Science from either side. Most things are bias and new studies come out all the time so it is hard to know what to believe. I also don’t have access to the more credible sources and studies. I think it is important for people to know the facts whether it supports their agenda or not bc all promoting false science does is discredit their views further. That is why this video is so helpful because it is mostly unbiased and is focusing on the actual facts. I came to the conclusion that it is possible to be healthy with multiple ways of eating whether it included animal products or not and this video supports that idea. That is why I am vegan mostly due to ethics. I am glad that this discussion focuses on the health side of things where most people are uneducated in. As always love your content👍
Amazing Video ! Keep getting people like Kamal, who are very scientific and evidence-based in the way they speak.
Excellent Talk!!!!!! I'm so glad yall emphasize good ethical treatment of Animals and some real in Depth info on the pros and cons of Meat eating Vs Vegetarian without all the Dogma
While I appreciate most of this interview, I dare say that getting over 100 grams of protein a day is easy without resorting to supplementation or animal products. And the statement that you need twice as much plant protein to get the same uptake as animal protein is just wrong, based on all my research. From what I gather there is little difference, on the order of 18 to 20 percent.
100g of protein is nothing unless your under 100lbs ,try getting 250g of protein . Also it is not complete protein you also have to combine it with grains
First, you don't know what you are talking about on protein. And second, no one except an extreme athlete with high lean body mass needs more than a hundred grams a day. Only an imbecile would try and get 250 grams a day, unless your lean body mass is well over 200 pounds, which yours is not.
But you need a lot more than 100g a day if you are doing strength training. Depending in your wheight it can be difficult to get to around 2g/kg of body weight, plus the 20% extra.
dust man multiply your weight by 1-1.3 and that’s how much protein you need per day . Assuming most of us here are average size athletes ... 160-190+ range ... that gets pretty hard man without going over calories and also making sure you get you don’t go over calories getting your carbs and fat . It’s really not that easy .
dust man you dont know what your talking about.And im pretty sure your real Photo will prove it.Try to build a nice body with 100g of protein per day.lmao.First do it and then type your stupid comment here with some proof to back up the shit your spiting
LEGS PART 2 JEFF!
416 Barz exactly man. He did put it a bit in his VLOG don't you think?
It was interesting hearing both sides of the argument. But still some points in there that i feel an actual vegan, with experience living plant based currently (e.g Dr Michael Greger) would have been able to elaborate on some points more. And a lot of the points on gut microbes could easily be dealt with after allowing the gut microbe makeup time to adapt to a more plant based diet. I think it would be great to have another video like this again to dive deeper into the studies. Great video tho, Jeff ✌🏼🌱
wow so much information, such a great video!
He looks like David Blaine a bit.
supimsatan he does lmao
It’s the sad sloppy eyes and droll tone of his voice.
@@MindBodyWhole Yeah!
I love a bit of podcast with my adverts
Jeff, love your channel. I'm fairly new to veganism and getting back into the gym after an orthopedic surgery. Like you, I'm a Pro competitor (figure, not BB; and IFPA before they dissolved and split into OCB Pro and IPE). Please consider doing more like this with Dr. Michael Gregor, Dr. Michael Klaper, Chris Willitts, Natalie Matthews, Josh Baldwin, Derek Simnett, Jeff Morgan. So far I'm doing well and feeling great getting back into the gym on a vegan diet. I have no energy issues, cravings, digestive discomforts, etc.
At 1:27:40 you two agree there's no vegan sourced b12. Is the Global Healing Center brand Vegan-Safe b12 I take not vegan then?
Couldn't wait for this video, thanks for sharing. ♥♥
Very comprehensive.....very informative. Thank You!
57:20 The way he looked at the egg study was disingenuous.
For people already "maxing out their cholesterol levels" by eating the SAD, adding more eggs may not increase their blood cholesterol.
Harvard just cant teach some things; to step back and use common sense.
Can’t justify eating meat from a moral standpoint but great video!
Matt glight Hey, just wanted to know why do you think it's morally incorrect to eat meat? :)
KingDavidusLongScrotum IV Probably because it harms animals unnecessarily.
But murdering plants is okay? For shame
Its delicious and it's useful. Justified
I see... but if the problem is in harming beings than we should not eat anything for besides dirt and mineral sources (we won’t last for long). I think the main reason why plants and such aren’t considered is because we tend to give a sort of “sentient” quality to animals such as chickens or cows, as if they had a conscious to understand that we are eating them. I think it is acceptable to eat them but treat them properly for a more efficient process.
I think itd be a good for you to make another one of these videos or an updated one. How to body build on a vegan diet. idk lots of questions that you do a great job answering.
Hey Jeff, I am not sure how else to reach out to you but, I thought it would be a pretty interesting and informative to have a video on Blood Flow Restriction since i have seen it become more and more common. Awesome vegan video also!
Video about vegan diet, talking to a non vegan???
tmg.84 yeaaaahh wtf bruuuh
Talking to someone who isn't a biased vegan??????
Facts are facts.... Doesn't matter who says them.
Just because you're a vegan doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
@@jampl3689 good point, but this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
I very much appreciate the content but the amount of adds interrupting the video creates quite a disruption in flow and enjoyment. Every few minutes is insane Jeff. Perhaps every 10-15 next time.
@JustJitzu 10 bucks is expensive. Just use vanced
Buy YT Premium subscription
Let the man make money
@@NDeemz he didn't say remove the ads, just space them out better.
Just finished watching the video👍🏻 great info !
Kevin cortez dude, video is like 90 minutes long
His vid just went up like half an hour ago
Really good video. Thanks for making this
49:30 the reasoning is completely absurd and anecdotal. My Grandfather was a drinker and smoker all his life and lived very long, so drinking and smoking doesnt come with health risks? Thats just plain stupid... What about the fact, that Inuit in general live the shortest lives? What about the fact, that US people have way higher rates of obesity and heart failures than Indians?
ignore the facts? since your name is "pure facts", I will ignore you then...
US diets consist of tons of sugar and processed meat.
cigars and liquor are both plant based!
americans eat trash, in India they eat trash also but less
US citizens generally eat more processed and sugary foods. Plus, deep frying is popular. It is not so much the meat as it is how we prepare it. Not to mention, the prominence of fast food. It is not as simple as meat versus no meat.