Did Roman Coins Circulate after the Fall of the Empire?
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- You asked it, and I bring you the answer. Did Roman coins keep circuating after the fall of the mighty Roman Empire? Lets find out!
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Great video 👍
For me a ancient coins collector from China, it is really fascinating to think about that my coins have survived 2000 years and finally come to me. Romans who once minted and used them would have never thought that their money will travel to "Serica", a far east country so far away from Roma.
Well said ! ❤
What's the scene like in China for collecting coins from Chinese Antiquity? Is there much money around from before the Cultural Revolution? If there are and people do collect them is counterfeiting an issue?
As an American I feel the same way
Aren't there Roman Coins found in archeological sites in China?
@@Epsilonsamavery limited amount
Miserably sad to think of how many Roman coins were melted down over the centuries and are now just plain elemental components of gold bars in a Swiss vault being held for some billionaire or other.
Toldinstone made a very interesting video on the topic. "How much roman gold is in your computer" where he goes in depth on the subject :)
@@ClassicalNumismatics Ya I think I saw that some time ago. He has a great channel! Hey btw I asked a question some time ago I didn't hear back so might ask shortly here. I ordered a lot of uncleaned coins from online recently that arrived all mixed together and at least 10% look like they have bronze disease. Being that they were mixed, does that mean they are now almost certain to contract it? Any way to stop that? Sometimes I have difficulty knowing what is BD and what is just very green patina but many were very clearly diseased.
BD gets transmitted by prolongued exposure. Keep them separated and observe for a couple of months if something appears. If it doesnt, its all good.
@@ClassicalNumismatics Hopeful news! Thank you!
I feel that loss too and yet on scales even only slightly longer than our lifetimes, it all turns to dust sooner or later🫤
I read somewhere that Constantinian bronzes were still circulating as small change in the south of France as late as the time of Napoleon III.
Its estimated that around 1% of all copper coinage circulating in France at that time were Roman coins!!
Very fascinating!
One could argue that, spiritually, Rome never really fell. If anything, its influence only expanded. We still write and speak using Latin based languages, buildings are still being built around the world that take styles from Greek and Roman architecture, art is still being made in the style of Greek and Roman art, we still use Roman numerals, the Catholic Church, a Roman era institution, is still around and thriving. Not to mention the coins we have today, particularly in the US, UK, Canada, etc. still use a lot of the same design choices as Roman coins. Hell, we even see Latin itself still being used in a number of fields and in coinage and such. Many Roman symbols, such as the fasces and Lady Liberty, is still used as symbols of countries today. The US (and other countries) even takes a lot of ideas for governance from the Romans themselves. I could go on and on. Regardless, the influence of the Roman Empire can still be very much seen in our day to day lives despite it having been about 1500 years since the fall of the Western Roman Empire and about 600 years since the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire.
The pope retains the title pontifex Maximus. I know there's some historical book called leviathan where the author says the ghost of Rome lives through the Roman Catholic Church or something like that.
13:50 that's got to be a medieval instance of "not my job, boss" 💀
Ooof 💀
The thumbnail is a 10/10 from me 😂
I was doing experiments with AI-Generated images, but figured out me being silly with photoshop is just more effective 😂
@@ClassicalNumismaticsyeah thus far my results With AI prompts aren't usually what I'm looking for either. Appreciate the photoshop.
11:20, good point, I never thought about that... of course those Renaissance collections we hear about today were those of the nobilty and the very rich, but some middle class scholar may have also collected, mostly clerics... in fact, I recall a "hoard" of Roman coins found in Mexico in aracheological context... it is supposed to have been the collection of some 17th century Spanish numismatist-friar who eventually hid it in face of some danger... I utterly understand him, he could not afford to come over here to the Americas without his collection, I would have done the same thing!
Its fascinating, and it seems to go waaay far back. David Hendin in one of his works mentions a 2nd century AD hoard in Judaea which contained roman denarii and aureii up to the reign of Antoninus Pius. In this hoard there were also some bronze coins from the second jewish revolt, each of a different type and with a different date on their legends.
By the time of Antoninus, these coins were demonetized, so we are left with an interesting possibility: Whoever owned that hoard, hid his collection of jewish coins alongside his savings.
Recently watched a video from a U Toronto professor specializing in coins used in the British North American colonies. One of the sources he quoted, which was one of Canadas earliest numismatist focusing on the plethora of coins circulating around the colony. He stated that roman and even at least one Ancient Greek coin circulated in the colonies. They were extremely rare but did circulate. It is crazy to think about the longevity of these coins and how they managed to cross a whole ocean and be used a millennia and a half or more after their mintage
Now that is VERY impressive!
From time to time, the British authorities prohibited minting or printing money in the 13 colonies.
Loved this episode. Extremely informative. Prior to this, I'd assumed the next era just melted most of them.
This happened in some instances, particularly when someone had "damnatio memoriae" enacted upon them, but most of the time they just kept circulating :)
If memory serves me right, some Roman Siliqua were shaved down for use as early Anglo-Saxon coins prior to King Alfred unifying the kingdoms.
That is right! :)
Great episode. I've often wondered when a Roman coin in my collection was last used to make a purchase. Who made the purchase & what did they buy??? I agree with you the connection we get collecting ancient coins with people of the past is a bonus to one's collection.
I often wonder about that too! Coins that reached our days in good condition did not circulate a whole lot, but if they could tell us of their travels, as short as they might have been, that would be incredible.
Seeing 5th century Vandals using a coin of Vespasian makes me wonder if anyone ever looked at it and decided to just keep it as some sort of lucky coin. I wonder how they would feel if they saw us collecting their currency, or if they did the same during their days to some extent
Notice it was pierced to be used as a pendant at some point, with the profile of the emperor facing "outwards".
Probably the same way we'd feel if we saw someone frothing at the mouth over a normal penny, slightly bemused. I always wonder to what extent our coins will survive and what appetite there will be for collecting them and maintaining them.
@@theeccentrictripper3863 I'm sure our own coins will interest the people from the future. Hell I get excited everytime I see an Euro coin from an eastern european country. Don't see them very often in the West.
Complimenti belle Monetine. Video spettacolare 🎉
I like how when talking about Charles IV. the image from Kingdom Come Deliverance is shown xd
"Hey, Henry has come to see us!"
Man I love this Channel. This is good stuff
Thanks for the kind words! Hope I can keep making nice videos for you people to enjoy
Melted down by goldsmiths?? I had no idea this was a horror video!
Now imagine how many hoards of gold and silver coins must have met the same fate in Italy and Greece due to the draconian laws these countries have regarding coins found on one's land.
Always fantastic inviews into the past through numismatics : thank you very much for your work !
Greatings from a Frenchman (passionate ancient coin collector, by the way) living since 1999 in Rome (more complicated actually), now 70 m away from Aurelian walls...
The parts of Aurelian's wall still standing are quite impressive!
Wow this video was fascinating i have been thinking about this question for a while thanks for answering it
And here I am to answer them :) Let me know if you have other unanswered questions about roman coinage, and Ill try to make a video on it.
@@ClassicalNumismatics do you plan on making a indepth video on the roman as like you did with the denarius and a few other denominations
Always something which I never knew😊!
And there´s more to come :)
For many decades and even centuries, these Imperial coins were the only good quality available for use.
Indeed, Roman precious metal coinage was famous internationally for its good quality.
When I was a kid we lived in Ethiopia - in the markets, you would often see old Maria Theresa Thalers being used. Farmers, especially, didn't trust paper notes or modern coins. The value of the Thalers was known & universally accepted. It was the same when we'd go to Kenya. Heck, when I was fighting in Kuwait, nearly every family we met had bags of Thalers as their savings. In mediaeval times, too - "currency exchanges" were just a matter of weighing coins (hundreds of paintings show it). So Roman coins would've circulated until modern times. In NYC British money was used as much as US money up until... shoot, sorry, but I know it was sometime between the 1850s-1870s. The "Shilling Side" of the street was where workers and artisans lived, the "Dollar Side" was where the wealthy did.
Very interesting video. Thank you.
That was a great video. Thank you for bringing so much fascinating history in this short presentation.
Probably the most interesting episode.
An excellent video that satisfies a question I had in another video.
Nice info.
Glad you learned something new today :)
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for posting
This was a fun video to make, with lots of surprises when doing research. Glad to see people are enjoying it :)
Thank you so much for answering my question. Loved this video ❤
Glad to see you learned something new today :)
Amazing video I have always asked myself this question!
Here is a short answer to it, hope it helps :)
Thanks Leo that was brilliant research from you.👍
You are welcome! Doing research for this was fun, lots of interesting discoveries.
I'm so glad I found your channel❤ love your work
Welcome aboard! :)
Great video, we need more on it
Im enjoying to make these "open ended questions" videos and answering them with coins. Theres more to come
Great episode
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it :)
I fyou ever do a top ten of all your videos this would be near or at number 1 as it is SOOO fascinating. The only detail you didn't mention is that the bronze coins sold for scrap in rural areas of parts of Europe in the early 19th century were also used I believe until the 19th century fir ballast for seafaring ships!
The testimony about the village of Yzeure mentions bronze coins and objects being sold for scrap :)
Thank you for creating this video. It actually answered so well to my question i had for the past 3 months. I study archaeology at university and really really want to connect my future work with coins from Roman Empire...
I love to see archaeology or history students coming here and telling me these videos help on their research. Im very glad to be able to help :)
very cool!
Thank you for this delightful and informative distraction from the present.
Much appreciated. ❤
Growing this channel and numismatics in general has been a blessing for my mental health in these crazy times. Im very happy to see these videos provide some minutes of peace for other people as well!
@@ClassicalNumismatics
Yes, your videos (which are themselves minted as beautifully as the finest coins that you show to those of us lucky enough to find your channel)
have without a doubt provided a great deal of restorative nourishment to the mind and souls of many. This is a gift whose value cannot be overstated in dark times. Thank you for the journeys that you bring us on, showing us to appreciate that the turmoil of the past DID pass, happier times returned; that it is wise to appreciate those good times, for they too pass, the cycles repeating…
You help to bring the people of the past into fellowship with us, in a very human way, as what is old is new again.
Great video! Channel has been a bit of an obsession of mine lately :D
If you have the time or desire, would you mind explaining (in video or text form) when, why and how the coins switched the emperor's face from portrait to full front facing? Thanks!
Thank you for the kind words :)
Yes! I will make a video on this Solidus of Leo I, and explain the whole front-facing bust thing. There have been front-facing busts on roman coins since Augustus! They just werent that common.
@@ClassicalNumismatics Thank you! Can't wait :)
Very good information very interesting
Thank you! Quite a few surprises when researching for this episode.
Here -> 8:21, It's amazing how much better, more realistic, and more detailed ancient Roman coins look than English coins from the 900s AD.
The details on the hair and beard especially. Roman coins can rival the 20th-century coins in terms of detail. It's remarkable. Coins from the 900s AD look crude and primitive.
The face of the emperor looks very realistic and detailed. The king in the upper row looks like some ghoulish monster. The decline was real. Europe really went into the dark ages for 100s of years. Even the technology of making coins went in more crude, primitive designs due to a lack of technology.
There are some technical reasons as to why medieval coins are so less detailed. Medieval dies were made differently. They were made out of iron instead of bronze, making the dies much harder to engrave. This gave them much higher durability, however.
Engravers were capable of beautiful designs, as we can see in the augustales. Yes, there was a decline in artistry, but the decline in artistic prowess of medieval engravers isnt this absolute collapse many people believe.
@@ClassicalNumismatics
I understand, thanks. But I'm simply saying what my eyes see. Human portraits on ancient Roman coins look very realistic. I can't say the same about coins from the 10th century AD. The details on coins from that period look extremely simple and primitive.
btw The Augustale coin dates back to 1230 AD, right? The 13th century A.D. is not part of the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages cover roughly from 500 to 1000 AD.
Everything from that period looks very primitive.
Even face portraits on Byzantine solidi from the 900s AD look extremely simple, and gold is a very soft metal, right? Why Byzantine craftsmen were unable to make detailed portraits in a very soft metal? If the decline in technology was not real as some scholars say. It doesn't make any sense in my opinion.
No decline, but we see only simple, primitive designs.
If you could point me to beautiful-looking, detailed European coins from the 700s, 800s, or 900s AD I would be grateful. Thank you.
Excellent video! Judging from the comments and your responses, it seems there's content for a second episode!
I might do an episode on roman coinage used in the modern period. There is a metric ton of literature on the subject.
If the value of money is determined by its material, a Roman coin pays as good as any other coin.
I agree!
Loved those Probus-like medieval coins!
These are amongst some of my favorite medieval designs!
Highly interesting :)
I would have thought Greschem’s Law would have taken the earlier coins out of circulation
Someday I’ll look into the few I have and maybe they’ll jumpstart a whole new side of coin collecting for me.
Bravo!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed :)
If you look at early American coinage, you see liberty presented as a personified deity, initially with the same cap that was the badge of liberty for manumitted slaves in Ancient Rome. And on the reverses, the eagle of Zeus from Ptolemy’s time.
Early american coinage, and European coinage in general were heavily influenced by Greek and Roman art. The Neo-Classical movement was in full swing by that time.
Do you know any good place to read up on late lombardian coins? like past 900 ad. I cant really find much info about it
If the coin is made of solid silver I could see a shopkeeper or merchant accepting it for its precious metal value and giving a farmer a few drinks at the tavern for example.
Plenty of places in the US that still accept old constitutional silver as payment for drinks and food. I wish other countries around the world allowed this kind of monetary freedom to its people
make a video on ROMAN EGYPTIAN COINS, ALEXANDRIA Please
Amazing how the Roman coins were of much higher quality of art than coins produced 1000 years later
True! We totally have the skills and techniques to do amazing coins today, sadly there is no political will. Its almost like things are becoming uglier on purpose.
Better question: will US currency?
Considering Byzantine was still around pretty sure it was
📽️👍👍👍👍👍👏
I wonder what it is that makes us choose the type of coins to collect. I love central/south american coins from late 1600s to the late 17th century, i also love the early US type coins. As a matter of fact i love british coins from the same time periods. Those coins just have the shape and designs that i love the most. Probably has to do with the technology of the time and the minting process and the culture of the time that makes them so cool to me. Ancients are amazing too, but i like the sharp details that coins from later eras have. UNTIL you get to modern coins that they design on computers and have infinite detail. Those coins seem lifeless to me. The new commemorative quarters... im not a fan. My dream ancient is probably an athenian decadrachm. the one with the eagles wings opened to his sides. But sadly i think those are extremely rare, like an octagonal panama pacific $50 or even rarer.
Gold is gold
And silver is silver! You are right :)
Proud to be Barbarian!
Unpopular Opinion: Rome had the best coins in the game
"Greek coin fans: REEEEEE!"
@@ClassicalNumismatics 😆
To think what would be if the western empire never fell.
Trajan VII would have taken us to the moon in 1637
@@ClassicalNumismatics Damn those barbarians!
Amazing Roman coins circulating in the middle ages.
And up to the 19th century! Crazy!
Second
first
🏅
Of course they did. It is not like people would have thrown their money away just because the empire stopped.
There have been hundreds of instances throughout history when a new administration immediately demonetized any coins issued by a previous ruler. "Of course they did" is a very short-sighted statement.
Yes
The value was the metal
Gold is Gold and Silver was Silver after all!
I thought youre talking about the fall of the Roman Empire in 1453.
Rome never fell :(
Emperor of the Romans, not king.
"Basileus Romaion", "Basileus" means king :)
@@ClassicalNumismatics Basileus is king in a classic Greek (V century BC) but in contex of Roman-Byzatine Empire from the meaning has change. Heraclius removed the old latin complex title and Latin. Instead he used folk language. Between Anciet Greek and his Medieval Greek there is also Koine Greek, language from The conquest of Alexander up to the New Testament.
Languages do evolve and some meanings (idea behind the world) as well pronunciation change. I have classes of Ancient Greek, Ionian back at the University but it is not very helpful for the Koine, Medieval Greek and god help me with modern Greek. Also from Ionan to Medieval pronunciation has changed too. B became V or (W), S changed to Z (or X)...
What a delightful video! I’m glad CZcams recommended it to me! 🪙🪙🪙
The CZcams gods have surely been kind with the channel these last few weeks, glad you enjoy the content :)