Did the Romans Know the Empire Was Falling?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
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Kings and Generals' historical animated documentary series on medieval history and the history of Rome continues with an episode on how the Fall of the Western Roman Empire was seen by the citizens of the empire. Did the Romans know that the Empire is falling?
Medieval Battles: • Medieval Battles
Roman History: • Roman History
Rise of the Vandals: • Rise of the Vandals: H...
Marcus Aurelius: • Marcus Aurelius - Phil...
Aurelian: • Aurelian: Emperor Who ...
Commodus: • Did Commodus End the G...
Claudius: • Claudius: Reformer, Co...
Sejanus: • Sejanus: Almost the Ro...
Milvian Bridge: • Milvian Bridge 312 - R...
Origins of the Germanic Tribes: • Origin of the Germanic...
Julian and battle of Strasbourg: • Julian: Rise of the La...
Arminius: • Arminius: Hero of Germ...
Cimbrian War: • Cimbrian War 113-101 B...
Teutoburg: • Teutoburg Forest 9 AD ...
How the Fall of Rome Transformed the Mediterranean: • How the Fall of Rome T...
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The video was made by Lucas Salatiel, while the script was researched and written by Johan Melhus. Narration by Officially Devin ( / @offydgg & / @gameworldnarratives )
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#Documentary #FallofRome #RomanHistory
I thought about it, and I think I know why the Western Roman Empire fell. It just didn't have that sigma male grindset.
If the Romans had simply depicted the ostrogoths as soyjaks in their memes, then surely the Empire would never have fallen
@@LeoWarrior14 Simple as
Americans dont realize they we are falling. only a few, rest dont want to know.
Beta Germans: you have to let us into the high command!
Sigma Zeno: eliminates Germans threatening to castrate imperial power to create puppet emperors
16:47 - 16:48 - 16:49 - 16:50
Germans: *spend 500 years trying to destroy Rome*
Germans when Rome is destroyed: _"Ight who's gonna be the next Roman Emperor?"_
That ALWAYS cracked me up!
You break it, you buy it.
They must love broken shit, lol
Shouldn't be that hard to figure out, they never meant/needed to resettle in Rome/Italy until the Huns came and the Great Migration started.
@@malchir4036 Yeah people don't mention that they were migrating primarily rather than outright trying to destroy Rome lol.
Ave, I’m Johan, the writer and researcher of the script of this video. I hope you enjoyed the video, it was a very interesting and quite complicated topic to write about, as describing the conception that men and women living 1500 years ago had is not easy and has to be done carefully. Special thanks to Marco from the podcast Storia d’Italia who gave me tips for some sources.
Sources utilized in the video:
- Arnaldo Momigliano, La caduta senza rumore di un impero nel 476 D. C.,
- Peter J. Heather, Rome Resurgent: War and Empire in the Age of Justinian
- Peter J. Heather, The Fall of the Roman Empire: a New History of Rome and the Barbarians
- Jonathan J. Arnold, Theoderic and the Roman Imperial Restoration
- Nicola Abbagnano, Giovanni Fornero, La ricerca del pensiero
Thank you so much for posting sources. I’ve been wanting to go a bit deeper on some of the subjects covered on the channel and this helps immensely.
@@andrewternet8370 Bro let him utilize the word. Utilizing it makes us feel good, as the utilization of fancier words make you sound professional despite sounding needlessly fancy. Despite knowing that, I still utilize the word utilize. Thanks for reading by the way. I don't utilize the CZcams comments feature that often, but utilizing them now and then is nice.
So when do you think the chroniclers and citizens of Western Rome stopped caring? When was turmoil considered the norm? In plain sight it looks to be sometime after the Empire got disrespectfully divided in three, with the formation of the Gallic and Palmyrine empires.
@@andrewternet8370 Such a pedantic matter to whinge about.
@@andrewternet8370 if he speaks a Romance language than “utilize” would feel more natural
*Stilicho: *saves the empire**
*Aetius: *saves the empire**
*Majorian: *saves the empire**
*Emperors: "Wouldn't that make you... A TRAITOR?!"*
Yeah :/
Yeah, eventually somebody learns a lesson. Which is probably why Odoacer did what he did. Why bother defending the Empire when these backstabbing bitches in the Imperial court are gonna betray me.
justinian was the exception
Honorius, Valentinian III, and Ricimer: *No. This isn’t how you are supposed to play the game!*
*Tragically kills the saviors of Rome*
@@matthewbabao2553 too little too late. Especially after the plague hit.
I think the hardest hit with Rome's decline and departure was the Britons.
A whole nation of people lacking both arms and military training after being under the protection of Rome's legions. They had to start from scratch with a completely isolated economy. With the Picts hopping over the wall and Irish raiders coming across the sea. Calling on the Angles, Saxons and Jutes to keep the raiders away and finding themselves occupied by them instead. No money or skills to maintain the Roman infrastructure, everything left to ruin.
Must have seemed like you were living in a post apocalyptic world being born and raised in a world of primitive wattle and daub huts surrounded by the ruins of a world so much more advanced and knowing only stories about them.
@@ZAR556 they did an Afghanistan. They didn’t start from scratch. All the infrastructure was in place. Just no leader or allegiance.
except the welsh
The irony is that the successors of the Romans (The Franks with Charlemagne) would be the ones in charge of bringing Roman culture to the Barbarian tribes up to the Elbe river (War saxons).
@@ZAR556
Wales was part of the Roman Empire for over 300 years. During that era Roman habits and culture won widespread acceptance in much of the country. Yet, unlike in most of Western Europe, the Latin of the Romans did not replace the native language of the people. It did, however, have an impact upon it, for Brythonic absorbed Latin words for things like forts, windows, rooms and books, words which were passed on to Welsh.
Roman art had an impact too, for it replaced the Celtic art of the Britons. Among members of the upper classes at least, there was a readiness to accept that they themselves were Roman, especially after AD 214 when the emperor, Caracalla, granted Roman citizenship to all free men throughout the Empire.
early welsh kingdoms kept roman tradition alive as much as they could. Welsh kings would later use the authority of Magnus Maximus as the basis of their inherited political legitimacy. While imperial Roman entries in Welsh royal genealogies lack any historical foundation, they serve to illustrate the belief that legitimate royal authority began with Magnus Maximus. As told in The Dream of Emperor Maximus, Maximus married a Briton, and their supposed children are given in genealogies as the ancestors of kings. Tracing ancestries back further, Roman emperors are listed as the sons of earlier Roman emperors, thus incorporating many famous Romans (e.g., Constantine the Great) into the royal genealogies. Arturian myth is also a fine example about Welsh keeping alive roman tradition. Wendy Davies (Emeritus university college London) has argued that the later medieval Welsh approach to property and estates was a Roman legacy, but this issue and others related to legacy are not yet resolved..
The Romano-British of the cities and the tribal capitals sought to maintain the political structures they had inherited from Rome.
They had some success. It is likely that during the years 420 to 450 Vortigern (the Gwrtheyrn of the Welsh tradition) held authority over much of the former Roman province. Tradition suggests that he used the Roman method of using one invader against another. Thus, he may have arranged for some of the Votadini or Gododdin (the Brythonic-speaking people living on the banks of the Firth of Fourth) to settle in north-west Wales to resist the incursions of the Irish. He allowed Saxons to settle in exchange for their help against the invasions of the Picts.
Yeah, BREXIT is a bitch.
Oh, you’re talking about 410! Sorry!
I honestly think the name of the "last" Emperor being Romuleus Augustulus biases people towards the 476=Fall of Rome conclusion since it provides such a nice book-end that the last ruler was named for the city's founder and the empire's founder respectively
yeah and constantine the great/ constantine palaiologos. i guess it makes the fall of rome sound more poetic
That's a hilarious name, it's like some patriot kid being named Georgington Bidenton 😂
@@MyName-lq7rv that's even funnier haha
Julius Nepos was the last de jure Roman emperor since he still held out in Dalmatia until his assassination in 480, The kingdom of Soissons was the last rump state that held out in the west under Syagrius until he was defeated in battle by Clovis I in 486
Just like the first “Byzantine” emperor and the last Byzantine emperor were Constantine.
_"We're planning to talk about Justinian more in the future."_
*happy screeches*
The man, the myth, the legend, the Chad
Great emperor As Heraclius and Basil II
@@zamirroa I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
@@Redsauce101 I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
It is the story of a empire falling over centuries.
First century: So far, so good
Second century: So far, so good
Third century: The most important is not the fall but the landing
Another happy landing
4th century: Things are looking pretty bad, but with this new religion we can survive.
5th century: No need to worry, we are still flying half an empire.
United States : *sweating*
La haine
@@KraNisOG I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
“The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends. It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace. They never are.”
Ser Jorah Mormont
It depends who the common people are. Farmers sure, because often they hardly ever leave their own land. But citizens living in the cities live the politics every day of their lives.
ASoIF is kind of shit. This comes from someone that read the books at least twice. Dude will definitely die before he concludes it. And if somehow he finishes it, it'll end unsatisfactorally. Too many plot lines that GO NOWHERE EVER AND THEN JUST END. Dude babbles. He doesn't write.
@@NovemberTheHacker Are people ever going to stop upvoting themselves on youtube ? Probably not. Until they go outside.
@@NovemberTheHacker Apparently books are now considered "masturbatory entertainment product." Where's the line drawn?
You guys should definitely do videos solely on Stilicho, Aetius and Majorian - the late tragic heroes of the West.
Stilicho in particular makes me incredibly sad. He likely really walked to his death to avoid shaking the empire further.
They already have a video on Flavius Aetius and the Battle of the Catalaunian Plains
@@ABCshake True, was thinking maybe an updated version of that video
They should as I’ve never heard of them until now
@@youvebeengreeked I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
The fall of Rome was a very complicated situation. Because although Western Rome "fell", the empire continued to exist in the East, and even in the West, the German warlords tended to rule through puppet emperors. Rather than a "collapse", the fall of Rome was actually more of a gradual process.
It's like how the Bronze Age Collapse didn't all happen in one year. It's more appropriate to say "the century that western rome fell"
@@pax6833 I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
yes, the Roman people in the west lived on as "normal". The Goths ruled a segregated world, with two cultures, two legal systems etc. They made use of the Roman administrative system (as did the Lombards later) because it was so effective. Nothing as influential and as long lasting as Rome vanishes overnight.
@@tsmlaska7761 1. Eastern Roman Empire or what degenerate called 'Byzantine'. Was self destruct itself from court intrigue and general consciousness of not care. It begins when mongol attacked Europe and settled turk people there. The fallen of Constantinople was expected by many at the times.
2. Ottoman Empire under house of Osman. What else? 600 years standing strong. 💪
3. Look at the map, brother. Where do you think Kazakh located? Is it near Europe or China? Do you think people from neighboring countries didn't fuck each other and mixed their genes? Kazakh didn't have state to back them up until they being eaten by Russian empire. They mixed with traders and travelers who mainly came from China before. Another one, the Soviet Union rise to power also made the mix become apparent.
@@leezanda8430 plus Turks mixed with Anatolians and Armenians and every other group in Turkey at the time to the point they aren't really that similar to their brothers in Turkmenistan anymore either.
The real fall of the Western Roman Empire was the fact that barely anyone noticed its fall.
Can you not relate? I can.
Our govts have become so rotten, it'll almost be refreshing when it falls.
Thats the true tragedy of the fall of western Rome: it went out not witha blast, but a whimper
@@nostalgyea5280 The Rome that fell was completely different from the Rome that started the empire. Different region, different culture, and different people so in a way the old Rome was already dead before it collapsed.
@@savvageorge I disagree Western Rome was still the Same it was the Eastern one who's different
@@sussyballs424 How was it the same after nearly a thousand years of existence?
If you were a farmer in Southern Italy in 476, your life went on just as it had before.
To me, it's not so much that the Western Roman Empire fell, but rather that it became irrelevant.
Machiavelli frequently alludes to this in The Prince, mostly by way of dismissing the peasantry and/or proletariat; as long as a prince can keep them well-fed enough to stop them taking up arms, they're a minor factor at most. Even today's politics reflect this; the average American, for example, would probably trade the Fifth Amendment for a free iPhone.
@@SimuLord insert quote about the government bribing the people with their own money
This is incorrect. The Ostrogoths actually managed to bring back to Italy a measure of the economic prosperity it had once enjoyed...they did this by employing what was left of the old Roman civil service, while at the same time reducing taxes and providing a higher standard of protection. The average Italian and that includes your farmer, were probably relieved Rome fell.
That’s a distinction without a difference. One presumes the other.
@@SimuLord Bread and Circuses a working strategy since the height of the Roman empire.
I’m Curious about the Anglo-Saxon and DaneLaw series, so far there are lots of missing parts from Edward, son of Alfred until Cnut the great then finally to Edward the confessor. I hope you guys would fill the gap for us! Love this channel
If you are interested in the subject I would recommend History Matters early videos where he made a series regarding Briton going from ancient times up until early modern times
King Cnut or Boris the Cnut
@@JasonDoe1000 Thanks for the recommendation, definitely gonna check it out
@@JasonDoe1000 great shout mate, cheers
would absolutely love to see that could have videos looking in to the different kingdoms before the vikings,Northumbria,Mercia etc and videos on the rulers ethelflaed,,Guthrie,aethelatan etc…there is a great channel on yt who has a lot of really good content on the Anglo Saxons called history time
Romans: "What happened?"
Elite Romans: "We weren't religious enough."
Romans: "Had nothing to do with corruption, endless war, poverty, expanding borders we didn't need and couldn't afford?"
Elite Romans: "Not. Religious. Enough!"
@@olliefoxx7165 I was being sarcastic, of course it was corruption.
@@Amadeus8484 would a religious society be corrupt? So in a sense they weren't religious enough
@@Abk367 "Sin now and repent later" is what I have noticed from many devoutly religious people...
@@Amadeus8484 Religious people at least Christians call those people chalced graves. White on the outside gore and bones on the inside.
@@Amadeus8484 ah but the idea is to repent now sin no more.not sin now repent later.people who say that clearly want to take the easiest way out or the path of least resistance. Doing other wise requires effort ,effort that they are not willing to put in .so in a sense they are unwilling to change and follow what they claim to follow.
kings and generals:did the romans know the empire was falling
Eastern Romans:b-but it didn't
Western Empire: *EVERYTHING IS BURNIIIIING*
Eastern Empire: Y'all hear summin'
Yea...It did.
That's like If the USA was taken over and the President and cabinet moved to Brazil and claimed it as the "New American Empire".
Yep. It's new. It may even be an Empire. But it's certainly a different empire.
@@nostalgyea5280 except it’s not similar at all.
@@junior1497 Sure it is. Your empire crumbles and the people dont even recognize it anymore , capitol gets sacked and the rich bail to a completely new country.
@@nostalgyea5280
If you replace Brazil with just the West Coast of the US/California it would be a better analogy.
Justinian is my favorite Emperor. He came so close to reuniting the empire, maybe if the plague hadn’t ravaged the population…
For the Italians at the time, living under the Ostrogoths would have probably been better than the constant war and instability which was to follow for the next several decades.
@@Zeerich-yx9po This is something a false premise. This viewpoint presumes Justinian knew that a catastrophic plague would wipe out 40% of the empire. Prior to this he just retook Africa and Italy, too very wealthy areas, for a pittance. And his immediate plans were consolidation rather than immediate expansion into Gaul. Had it not been for a completely unthinkable happenstance, there is little reason not to think that at the very least the addition of Africa and Italy would have greatly increased prosperity.
Moreover, your assumption also rests on but for invading Italy that the Western Barbarians would have left Justinian in peace. This is highly, highly unlikely. There was always going to be war in the West because the Gothic kingdom was already destabilizing and no Roman Emperor was ever going to be content allowing the Goths to rule in the Balkans.
Just like the Sassanids would never leave the Romans in peace either. There is always war. An attempt to reconquer the West made plenty of sense given the incredible recovery of Roman fortunes during the preceding 30 years. A reconquered West offers a more stable frontier and far more resources.
Finally, you assume that Justinian's actions led to the Roman misfortunes of the 7th Century. It didn't matter who was Emperor; the Plague was always coming and it was always going to wreck the Empire. If anything, the stability of Justinian's reign bought the Romans more time.
tehehe he got bummed
@@felixphilippe7224 It is Tahiti, naa empty.
What I really like about K&G’s channel is that they will cover familiar and unfamiliar topics. This video in particular rings back to me being a kid and learning about the fall of Rome on the History Channel. It was interesting to get a new perspective on Rome’s demise
Oh what I'd do for the days when there was history on the history channel
@@Makofueled best I can do is 20 dollars.
@@Makofueled Yeah, it's devolved from the History Channel to the Hitler Channel, then finally the Pseudohistory Channel
A lot of people have a deep love of the Roman Empire, but I personally think this period in history right after the death of the empire is one of the most interesting: you see the beginning of new nations and states that would go on to compete for the title of the most powerful nation in the West, you see vastly different cultures rise and barbarians become sedentary peoples, it's almost like the most epic "rags to riches" story in all of history.
The beginning of the middle ages is really cool. Was always unfamiliar with this era until this year, thanks to K & G and other history channels. The rise of England and France, the Vikings, unstoppable Islamic conquest, etc.
Scientific discovery and advancement went down the shitter for a few centuries as well.
@@Zeerich-yx9po There's a reason it's called the "Dark Ages" following the collapse of the empire and not the "Golden Age of Barbarian Preservation and Enlightenment." It had a lot to do with the decline in scientific and cultural advancement for about 900 years. Which is what I was referring to.
@@Zeerich-yx9po It slowed. Obviously some sort of discovery is inevitable but the advancement slowed considerably due to squabbles between the newly divided kingdoms, plague, and certain regulations by the Catholic Church. Instead of arguing with me, argue with the thousands of historians who labeled it the "Dark Ages" for those reasons.
@Zeerich Also, the change of numerals and much of the scientific discovery, including algebra and advancements in medicine and armor came from the Muslim world outside of Europe during the medieval period.
Could you guys do a video on Emperor Majorian? I feel like he's always overlooked due to his reign being so close to the fall of the Western Empire but he was truly one of the last Roman Emperor who nearly brought back the glory of Rome until he was betrayed.
Just read a little about him, very interesting
True. It's sad that he was just a puppet emperor, but he deserves to be an actual emperor who fights for the good of the empire.
+1
@@lyonvensa He wasn't just a puppet Emperor, it was supposed to be so. Ricimer, the Magister Millitum, thought that he could be de facto Emperor of Rome, as he could not also be the de jure Emperor, as he was Barbarian. Yet, Majoran would not allow himself to be a puppet, but proved himself to be a veritable Emperor and a courageous millitary leader, almost bringing the Western Empire back together, that is why Ricimer assasinated him, as he wanted a puppet Emperor, and Majoran was not one.
@@ionutdinchitila1663 Yep, exactly.
the significance of a year is usually realized many years later
its more that later generations like to have a simple coherent historical narrative and ascribing important events to certain years is part of that, even if in reality the process was decades long
as gradual and as slow as it fell I believe it was in the back of all Romans minds for a long time until the day finally came. it was inevitable when the Empire Lost Aurelian. Another great video Kings 👍
Depending on the time horizon, the fall could be viewed as pretty quick. The defeat at Adrianople was in 378, and Rome was sacked by an autonomous Gothic force in 410 - just 32 years later. Now maybe a good number in that Gothic community felt they were entitled to become Romans, but all the same, a force was moving about creating disruption, in the Balkans, Italy and later Western Europe, outside the control of Imperial power.
And there was a domino effect, with other peoples entering the Empire. To the point that the Vandals were able to seize North Africa by 439 (when Carthage was taken) - just 61 years after the Adrianople defeat.
I believe the Western Empire's fate was written when Magister Militum Ricimer betrayed and murdered Majorian, the last great Emperor in the West, the last one to hold effective power, to introduce serious and thorough reforms, and the last one to attempt to restore its former glory.
@@michaeldunne338 I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
@@edoardodipaolo370 I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
@@tsmlaska7761 The Arabs hobbled the Byzantine Empire in the 7th and 8th centuries (seized the Levant, Egypt, North Africa, Spain, Cilicia), and the Turks progressively destroyed it after Manzikert, 1071, over a four hundred year period.
Ottoman Empire is well known in the west. Prior to that, there were the Seljuks with their Turk-Persian empire. In Central Asia, Timur had a Turk-Mongol Empire in the middle ages.
Central Asia was a mixing bowl of peoples, for millennia. Believe the histories of peoples there defy the kind of hamfisted definitions of peoples and nationalities that came out of Europe in the 19th century.
Why the questions?
Some videos about the Visigothic, Frankish, and Italian post roman kingdoms, their populations, and the extent that they continued classical culture would be great too!
If I remember correctly, many citizens in these places still thought of themselves as Roman long after 476AD as well
Good one, adding to the list!
@Joe
Gladiatorial games did continue. In a letter by Theodoric the great (or written on his behalf to be more exact) he interestingly says that he finds gladiatorial games to be deplorable but admits that they remained popular among the people. Here’s the letter:
*If singers and dancers are to be rewarded by the generosity of the Consul, à fortiori should the Venator, the fighter with wild beasts in the amphitheatre, be rewarded for his endeavours to please the people, who after all are secretly hoping to see him killed. And what a horrible death he dies-denied even the rites of burial, disappearing before he has yet become a corpse into the maw of the hungry animal which he has failed to kill. These spectacles were first introduced as part of the worship of the Scythian Diana, who was feigned to gloat on human gore. The ancients called her the triple deity, Proserpina-Luna-Diana. They were right in one point; the goddess who invented these games certainly reigned in hell…Alas for the pitiable error of mankind! If they had any true intuition of Justice, they would sacrifice as much wealth for the preservation of human life as they now lavish on its destruction.'*
@Joe why because he was a king
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl
No. It’s because he did some horrible stuff.
*After a three-year siege, Theodoric entered the city on 5 March; Odoacer was dead ten days later, slain by Theodoric while they shared a meal. Theodoric had plotted to have a group of his followers kill Odoacer while the two kings were feasting together in the imperial palace of Honorius. When this plan went astray, Theodoric drew his sword and struck him on the collarbone. In response to Odoacer's dying question, "Where is God?" Theodoric cried, "This is what you did to my friends." Theodoric was said to have stood over the body of his dead rival and exclaimed, "The man has no bones in his body."*
*Not only did Theodoric slay Odoacer, he thereafter had the betrayed king's loyal followers hunted down and killed as well, an event which left him as the master of Italy. Odoacer's wife Sunigilda was stoned to death, and his brother Onoulphus was killed by archers while seeking refuge in a church.*
@@joellaz9836 to be fair to the man he might have rationalized his actions as necessary and justice while gladiator arena as unnecessary cruelty
People don’t give enough credit to Odoacer and Theodoric. They reestablished order and security in Italy and Illyria and fostered arts and literature. Boethius and Cassiodorus were patronized by the court and the senate was upheld.
Plus at this point society was so stratified and feudalistic that the average person would have no idea of anything outside of their latifundia.
After Diocletion, there must have been pockets of "Romans" who hadn't really moved in hundreds of years but were one day being asked to serve some vaguely German sounding locals.
What? There is so much credit given to them in loads of documents.
@@JohnyG29
Theodoric gets an admiring write up in James O'Donnell, The Ruin of The Roman Empire,
while Justinian is definitely the baddie destroying Italy in order to save it.
People living under them actually thought the Empire was making a comeback. The army was pretty much the same as it was before the collapse except under the "barbarians" it was landing victories and securing the borders of Italy. The economy was seeing a new boom, new infrastructure was being built, old aqueducts, sewers, baths and buildings repaired and things were looking up and up. Contemporary writers actually thought that the Western Empire was gonna make a comeback.
I know for sure that the citizens knew the empire was falling in 1453
What empire? What's left from Constantinople and some parts of Greece? The East Roman Empire had "died" many years before the invasion of the Turks.
@@savioblanc Yep
@@MultiEvil85 My friend, another pre-Ottoman Turkish state, the Seljuks, collapsed the Byzantine Empire. After all, the states that destroyed the Byzantine Empire are the Ottomans and the Seljuks, that is, the Turks, the damned ancestors of the damned Turks.
@𝔭𝔥𝔬𝔢𝔫𝔦𝔵 Yes
ProPic checks out;)
Someone crosses alps with army
Romans: Maybe this is our end!!
Kings and Generals caught me on the next one! Another awesome video, the Roman Empire series is my absolute favorite!
Watching this kinda reminds me of how short is the span between the fall of Rome and the reconquest a few decades later that would ensue during Justinian's reign, before being followed up a century later by the disastrous wars in the east against the Rashidun Caliphate.
Yes, if things had turned out differently for the Eastern Roman Empire, 476 might have seemed like just a blip or a minor period of turmoil, much like many the Roman Empire had experienced before. Only after it is clear that Italy was going to be lost from the (Eastern) Roman Empire for good does 476 seem important.
@@Comradez Agreed. Sometimes I thought of the reconquest as kind of similar to, say, the Sassanids trying to restore the Achaemenid glory, before realizing that Justinian's conquest is in reality quite close to the fall of Rome, that had the restoration been successful, the span between 476-550s when Rome only existed in the east could be considered as only another "Crisis of the nth Century" kind of period.
Great question. We tend to get the portrayal that the ‘fall’ of Western Rome was the end of days but evidently it seems this is a narrative later people created rather than the real experience of the people who lived through the transition. I love how this channel answers questions I never knew I had. Great as always,.
There's been a pushback against that ideas from several scholars in recent years. While the transition may not have been instantaneous, there was an absolutely massive degradation in so many things within a relatively short time: literacy and trade collapsed, and overall material culture became substantially simpler. The transition toward a feudal society accelerated, too. Overall, I'd say that the argument that things continued as normal doesn't hold water.
@@FalseNomen do you have any links/ source recommendations or even better visuals which display these declines. I would be very interested to see them for myself. Thanks. 🙂
if anyone knew the empire was falling it was probably those that were trying to save it
If anyone is interested in exploring this topic further, I recommend the podcast "The Fall of Rome" by Patrick Wineman. He is a History PHD which did his dissertation on the societal changes at the end of the Roman Empire.
He goes into the economics and politics of Late Rome and the successor states in great detail.
What a phenomenal topic! This is what I expect from King and Generals!
The voice of the narrator of these amazing videos was made for this! Keep up the good work, you are by far my favourite YT channel!
Informațiile excelente, dar Vocea...👌😍
Interesting. The hedonism of the west is somewhat similar to what we saw in Rome. While there may fair criticism of the east, their criticism that we're a society that worships individual pleasure is bang on.
Also loved the different format!
Edit: Using east and west to talk about contemporary society and not Rome
@Damien Skeuophoros
Romans believed that once people became too hedonistic and accustomed to luxury then they became poor fighters and more effeminate. Oriental countries at that time were the richest in the world, which is why romans thought they lacked martial spirit in comparison to Germans who lived in harsh conditions and were rarely exposed to lots of luxury. They also believed that people in Gaul got conquered by them because they had increasingly been exposed to luxury and wine. It may be true. Certainly people in Rome become less willing to undergo hardship, which is why you had people cutting off their thumbs to avoid military service.
Man, the intro music you guys use for these super epic videos is simply phenomenal, it really sets the tone for the big events that are subsequently discussed.
Your unbiased reporting is amazing. This is my favorite channel above all, because it beholds facts among the controversy during conflict 🍿😎💯
Counter point: could it simply be that the gravity of the situation wasn’t fully understood until much later with 20/20 hindsight? I don’t think the great majority of people in 1945 thought the end of WWII immediately heralded in the beginning of another war (albeit a ‘cold’ one). After all, America and the USSR had been fighting hand in hand. But in hindsight it’s obvious that the Cold War was going to happen. So maybe 476 *was* the end of the western Roman Empire, but simply wasn’t understood fully until after the fact? But I don’t know, what do you all think, CZcams?
I'm fairly sure the people in charge of the Soviet Union and what later became NATO could clearly see the writing on the wall in 1945. For example Operation Unthinkable were plans drawn up by British Chiefs of Staff in 1945, for possible future wars with the Soviet Union. Churchill ordered these in May 1945, before WWII was officially over in September 1945.
@@TheJimmyJazz1994 I have two conflicting feelings about this; my first is that, just because their were plans for such wars with the USSR, doesn't necessarily mean much. The US had (and still has) plans drawn up as how to invade the UK and Dominion Canada, though this obviously doesn't mean that US war planners are looking at the UK as the next threat. But on the other hand, I'm inclined to agree with you. There is a lot of evidence that suggest the "soft underbelly of Europe" strategy employed by the US and UK and the very delayed invasion of Normandy was purposely designed to allow the Soviets to be bled dry, implying they were already beginning to look at the Soviets as a threat. So I don't know what to think, but this is all a bit tangential to determining whether 476 was the end of the Roman Empire haha
@@mathewwinn No analogies needed, it's just boiling a frog. But in this case the frog was the one turning up the heat half the time.
I like to compare it to the decline of European monarchy. History books will not write down the current UK as ruled by a Queen, in effect. They'll probably pick "That time the King signed away his powers" and go on to note the decline and how titles were still used. Yet if you ask almost anyone alive 70 years ago, "The Queen of England? Only the head of one of the largest Empires in history!" and now "The Queen of England? Nominal head of a fractured Empire, where each part has gone its own way."
Just look how ungenerous we are to WW1 generals to see how quickly we can forget how things used to be.
@@mathewwinn From what I've read (Rick Atkinson on Sicily / Italy campaign) the Americans were desperate to get into France as soon as possible but the Brits outmaneuvered them at Casablanca and in Washington conferences first choosing Africa then Sicily. Italy was off the cards until the "ease" of the Sicily campaign was realised. Churchill actually wanted to get into Italy to pull as many German divisions into defending Italy, Southern France and the Balkans as possible - making life easier for the Soviets and also pulling divisions from Northern France. At Trident in Washington, the "win" for the Americans was to get Britain to commit to landings in France in Spring of 1944 which was still a disappointment to them. If they had it their way, they'd have landed cross-Channel before Africa, which, in hindsight, probably would have ended in catastrophe.
I guess my point is that from the reading, the Western Allies really were trying to pull pressure from the Soviets as, by Sicily they had a million man strong Anglo-American army in the Mediterranean and weren't doing anything with it.
As much as I love battles, these types videos feel really refreshing !
It's nice that KINGS AND GENERALS also delves into these kinds of themes or topics, rather than just battles, campaigns, and wars. Good job.
read a book.
@@felixphilippe7224 What made you think that I don't read? In fact my bedroom is like a library.
@@fpvillegas9488 I should have clarified: read a book that delves into any of these topics in depth.
@@felixphilippe7224 I'm actually speaking for others who are not inclined to reading a book, but would rather watch a video about these things.
But I agree with you that if you want depth of knowledge, nothing beats a book or a library.
Historian Peter Brown has a very good book called "The world in Late Antiquity, from Marcus Aurelius to Mahoma". It gives a wide view of the long term ideological, social and religious transformation that took place in the mediterranian world. He makes a great effort to really paint a picture of the people of late antiquity in and around the Mediterranian.
It felt like living through 300 years of history in less than 300 pages.
Check it out!
Sounds great! Thanks for the suggestion.
Who's mohama?
@@alyenendrovtsorokean7406 That's Muhammad in Spanish, Im guessing he's a Spanish speaker
@@neolink8197 thanks! Always assumed it was Muhammad regardless of language.
@@alyenendrovtsorokean7406 Yeah, strangely enough we say Mahoma in Spanish which I find weird too. Im guessing it was due to Spain's close contact to Muslims early on, maybe that was a local interpretation
Just like the Pax Mongolica, the Roman empire provided safe travel and free trade throughout it's dominions and beyond. That was the biggest thing that broke down, afterwards ordinary citizens were tied down to the land and their lords.
As well as loss of currency, decline in availability and quality of products, and general decline in living standards for several hundred years.
@Danny Flood
This is completely false, commerce was restricted to those of the christian and jewish tribes. Trade and agricultural intensity begins to plummet in the second century
The mongolian empire may have actually been about restoring laws regarding hospitality against subversion from the cult ot Nepotism and Envy. I havent looked into it but that is what motivated the germanic tribes, the viking age, etc
The Roman Empire didn't collapse in the West. It faded away so slowly that people wouldn't notice for a few centuries
similar to britain, or the usa now (to some degree)
@@davids3282 imagine being this fucking delusional.
@@messithegoat7178 ironic
@@davids3282 Maybe so, but if you are right then we would not notice just like the Romans did.
@@messithegoat7178 USA's influence really starts to become weaker.
Thank you so much for this video. I always wondered this topic.
Great topic Great video as usual
"When did Rome fall?" The trickiest historical question ever
The Roman Empire in the West actually fell when the Frankish King, Pepin the Short, beat the Lombards and gave the lands he conquered to the Bishop of Rome. The latter did not return these lands to the Emperor, instead, he found himself as the head of a state. The Papal, known today as The Vatican.
@@giannisgiannopoulos791 Óooh time to give history a nudge
476
@@leonardosereno2872 I have 3 questions, I will be glad if you answer
1) My friend, did the ancestors of the Arabs or the ancestors of the Turks destroyed the Byzantine empire?
2) Who are the world's best-known Turkic empires and their descendants?
3) While half of the Kazakhs look like Anatolian Turks, half of them look like Chinese, what is the reason for this? Kazakhs are very mixed Turkic people ?
@@leonardosereno2872 Anatolian Turks some people greek But uzbeks? Azeri? Khazaks? What is this They are not real Turks
I have the feeling to see that once again. In Europe, everything comes together, we are living once more something very similar. Even at the time some peoples was persuaded everything was fine, incredible.
Thank you so much Teodosius. I also need to express my gratitude to you Odoacer. Both of them were important in the introduction of Medieval era. Really, very nice of them
That was a really interesting analysis. Thank you for what you do!
Trying to provide insight into what people would of thought at the time is such a fascinating topic. It would also be interesting to pose the same question to those who were living during the decline of the Eastern Roman Empire.
Love your work. But Julius Valerius Majorian, the last great emperor of the West, really deserves a video. Even more, he deserves to be known! As Gibbons once wrote "Majorian presents the welcome discovery of a great and heroic character, such as sometimes arise, in a degenerate age, to vindicate the honour of the human species". I believe the W. Empire's fate was written when Ricimer betrayed and murdered Majorian, the last great Emperor: the last one to hold effective power, to introduce serious and thorough reforms, and the last one to attempt to restore its former glory.
In the end the "State" needs the will to survive. No one wants to put their neck out when the top job keeps going to scum after the last good guys got murdered.
Thanks for posting!
Love the angle you took on this subject. Great and informative video!
The Roman Empire lives on in the heart of the Romans.
Obviously not in the Italian military
Oof
@@IsaiahHarper11 oof F to Italy
Greeeks are the last Romans like the Noldors of midle earth soon we will left this world
@@paulmayson3129 no one can survive with 1.3 birthrate
I've come here to join my brothers in weeping the end of the empire
Time traveler: *goes back in time to mourn the end of Rome.
Romans: why are you crying oddly dressed man?
Great work as always !
Wow, this is awsome. This is exactly the view on history we need, thank you!
"Empire? What Empire? I've lived the same way my father's x5 have lived and died. What do you mean an Empire losing?" Some roman Semi-Serf probably.
Will you guys ever cover the campaigns of Emperor Majorian? He managed to reconquer much of lost roman territory during the twilight of the Roman empire, which is quite an impressive fear given the amount of resources he had.
Great video. What a fascinating chapter in human history!
Thank you for an interesting and informative very well done video covering a little covered era of history.
A thousand years from now: "Did the average American citizen know the American Empire was falling?"
Not the idiots that voted and support Biden anyway
@@iBreakAnkles4Fun I don't think the elections are secure enough for an honest election anymore.
yeah probably, but 1000 years from now is extremely far away, the U.S. in the grand scheme of things is quite young at 250-ish years old. The Romans went through an absolute ton of turmoil and didn't transform from a republic into an empire for almost 480 years.
Who fucking knows is my answer, I try to predict things but way things are going with climate change we're going to have to do a shit ton of rethinking in the future and that process is not an easy or smooth process on an individual level let alone a societal one. Ultimately it will be done none the less but who knows what its gonna look like.
i generally think to the quote "Americans will do the right thing after exhausting all other options." and such quotes still seem to generally remain true when pertaining to this country.
@@iBreakAnkles4Fun Be it Biden or Trump or anyone else. The American system is designed to carry out the same policies that will eventually cause its collapse.
@@d.c.8828 Yeah Trump said that republicans are useless as well but I do have faith that Trump does love America and was doing what was in the peoples' best interest which is why the media is still working overtime in blaming him for everyone else's faults.
I love these videos that provide greater cultural context. I've always wondered what the European kingdoms were thinking when the Eastern Empire fell to the Ottomans.
Interesting subject! Kudos!
Thank you , K&G .
Hi, I'm wondering how the maps were made in this video. Was it done with a specific program or image set, or commissioned by an artist?
Me: Just looking at all the Rome-America comparisons
Soon US will invaded by Hispanics just like Roman Empire once invaded by Germanic immigrants
Except people definitely notice.
this video is excellent. very informative and very objective in the analysis of sources. Also very entertaining :)
Thank you for your channel very informative
Fascinating! I have long wondered if the Fall was catastrophic for most or something only noticed in retrospect. It makes sense that for the commoners & the poor it sometimes makes little different who is in power. The lot of the lower classes is of little importance to the wealthy and powerful, even today.
You should cover the rise of the franks :)
Awesome topic good job
Always love this channel
Since we are now at the topic of Gothic rule in Italy I really hope that we get a video of Theodoric the Great of the Ostrogoths and the role he played in upholding the roman structures even after the fall of the west
its ironic, Rome started with Romulus and ended with Romulus...
@@savioblanc most of the eastern emperors were named constantine, so its hardly ironic nor surprising. Western rome's last emperor's name was Romulus Augustulus, names of the first king and first emperor, which is ironic.
Justinian’s attempt at conquest probably did far more damage to Roman Cosmopolitanism in Italy than any dynastic shifts between Roman and German princes.
These Videos are the Best, No one does them better
I'm reminded of the lyrics "Every empire, every nation, every tribe thought it would end in a bit more decent way" by black metal band Mgła (track IV on "Exercises In Futility", 2015)
Bryan Ward-Perkins made a great argument in 2005 (in The Fall of Rome: the End of Civilization) against anyone arguing the "transformation rather than fall" theory that was popular in Roman historiography in the 1980s, he lays out the evidence for the huge extent of slaughter, enslavement, rape, etc. that went on and how downplaying that aspect is a mistake. I remember making this argument as an undergrad that the basis of this relativistic argument is a superficial and political one based off intellectual trends that viewed immigration in the 1980s in the Western world in a positive light and that somehow ended up affecting how we view past immigrations. Obviously historians such as Peter Brown and Patrick Geary didn't think the two were necessarily comparable but any argument that downplays mass violence is specious.
Great video!
A great bit of history that ties to relevant current events. Carry on
Roman Citizen #1: Are those barbarians sacking our city?
Roman Citizen #2: I thought that they were the new tax collectors
Roman Citizen #1: Oh how far we've fallen...
Alaric: You don't know half of it yet
A Goth General? These truly are dark times.
It's ironic how Justinian attempts to reconquer Italy, brought more devastation to the region than several barbarian invasions.
Awesome video!
Insightful!
Papal control of the kings of Europe immediately after the "fall" of the "western" romans could be viewed as a continuation of the empire....the Christian Kings could all be viewed as mini emperors of their respective realms but still under the guidance, at least spiritually from Rome.
If you think about it, the church in Rome is the last western imperial institution that's still functioning to this day.
@@MarfSantangelo shoot, the pope is the still the Pontifex Maximus. That’s a position that’s been in continuous existence since the Roman Kingdom
@@clowkey1747 Yep! How crazy is that?
@Marcelo Henrique Soares da Silva Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, they referred to Charlemagne and other HREmperors as "Emperors of the Franks".
@@imperator7828 Oh please, the Church became an imperial institution the moment Theodosius made Christianity the imperial state religion. I even specified that the Church in Rome is that last WESTERN imperial institution still active, the Greek Orthodox Church is equally legitimate. The Eastern Roman Empire's legitimacy as the true continuation of the Empire isn't being questioned either, as it was literally the same state.
It would have been very surprising, if the Romans at the time considered the deposition of a child emperor in 476 to be the end of the empire. Rome was ruled at various times by emperors of different ethnicity, without a sack or a blatant break with Roman traditions there was practically zero reason for the Romans to believe that the days of the empire were over.
I have been searching for a video on this topic for a long time.
You appropriately use AD not CE. Respect to you all. This is one of the many reasons I love your work. You are true scholars.
aaah the Roman Empire (ancient or Eastern doesn't matter). the greatest in the whole mankind
still lives on despite its fall
Such an irony, the Carolingian scholars claimed that the Eastern Roman Empire abandoned Rome when Justianian attempted to reclaim Rome and even go so far to the point of painting the Goths as barbaric evil usurpers to legitimize his regime in Sicily, southern Spain and the western portion of North Africa.
@@Patrick3183 Sorry, I'm pretty sure I was saying Justinian the Great.
excellent video!
Great title grabbed my attention right away
Personally I think the reign of Clovis I in France and Germany was closer to a continuation of the Roman Empire than the Gothic kingdom of Italy. Evolution of law to conform to the new order, but heavily based on the Roman one, good relations with the clergy that led to his baptism(eventually), and the establishment of a dynasty that lasted some centuries, to then lead into the Carolingians and the development of the Holy Roman Empire.
The video was excellent however, this channel is really one of a kind in its approach.
The Goths were much more romanised by This time than the Franks and Italy was a much wealthier PROVINCE with an higher capability of assimilation, also because of the number of roman Inhabitants when compared to the rest of the West. The Gothic Kingdom of Italy was a superpower, they defeated the Franks and burgundians and were aiming at unifying the Visigothic Kingdom with theirs to create a unified Gothic State. The reason why the Franks BECAME preminent was the destruction of the Ostrogoths on the hands of the Byzantines and the fact that the Franks, Catholic Christians, BECAME protectors and allies of the Papacy following the Longobard (mostly arians) conquest of Italy. The Frankish Kingdom became in other words a perfect substitute of the Eastern Empire for the Pope, who was gaining increasing power and authority in the West following the decline of Byzantine influence over Italy and the conflict with the Eastern Emperor. The Franks were Latin Christians capable of providing the strenght the Pope required to hegemonize the spiritual, and subsequently political, conscience of that embrione of an entity Which would have been known as Europe. The Franks, on the other hand, understood the symbolic and political importance of Rome in the West, and were more than willing to cooperate in order to gain further legitimacy.
Yup, the Franks were feoderati and Clovis was raised to become a Roman prefect. Moreover he had the support of Gregory of Tours and the clergy in Gaul to become king as he didn't fall into Arianism contrary to most barbarians.
The Roman Empire didn’t fall. It lives on in our hearts!
Roma Aeterna!
@@Ibn-Abdurrahman Yes.
Salute to the kings and generals. Educative videos
Glad the music is always great!
How did the East Romans feel when the West fail
At least Romulus Augustulus became Uther Pendragon.
Dont give me Arthurian flashbacks. I grew up bound and determined to prove the story, on some level, as being real and failed. Arthurian PTSD lmao
Where did this fanfiction come from and why does it sound like an amazing concept?
Great video
Very interesting concept indeed.