5:31 the exact pitch does matter at least for us string players. My violin was built specifically resonate well at its tonal range centered around A=440 hz. When i use a lower A, i can of course tune the other strings to that, and play in tune relative to that lower A- but the instrument will not project as much, the sound loses some of its luster and it will literally produce less sound. I also find it harder to play in a different tuning because i constantly notice that it's all slightly off and what i hear won't match with muscle memory. Getting double stops in tune becomes harder too. Not to be overly pedantic or anything like that of course, just wanted to add this! Your video was really interesting, i was literally wondering why we use hoboe for tuning just the other day. Edit: my own theory for the reason why (this was before i watched the video), was that it might be because the hoboe produces quite a pure sound compared to other woodwinds. A bassoon or clarinet with a more rich timbre would maybe have too 'fuzzy' of an A, making it harder for everyone else to tune to their tone. Especially with a flute, the sound has a lot of character but i don't think it would make the easiest instrument to tune to. But the hoboe can be quite nasal sounding so maybe there's a bit more A in the timbre and less overtones / other pitches. It still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't just use a french horn or a trumpet though, as like you said they're louder and arguably it's even easier to tune to that.
Thanks for sharing! This is very interesting because for me the reed changes the tonal center and not my instrument. I find that my instrument likes to play flat naturally, but I always have to raise the pitch to be in tune. Great thoughts though!
This. Modern instruments are extremely sensitive to absolute pitch discrepancies. There’s a reason why an instrument says “440Hz” when you buy it. It’s because it’s designed to play with the most ease and projection with that tonal center. By adjusting string tension or woodwind cork/head joint length or brass valves you are sacrificing intonation, tone quality, loudness, dynamics, range of colors, and playability to a tangible extent. It may not matter that much in a lower skill setting, but professional players will *definitely* notice a huge difference in their playing. Plus, what are you gonna do about mallet percussion? They’re stuck at 440 or 442Hz (vibes/glock) no matter what!
Question and comment: First thanks for the podcast, very interesting If a piano is used why wouldn't the oboe tune to that instrument? You can't tune the piano as easily as other instrument. Comment: I played a military gig in a large auditorium. The conductor used the chimes as a tonal center.
Wow that’s really cool that you guys used the chimes for the tonal center. And great, question, I might’ve have not made it clear in the podcast, but you would tune to the piano or instrument that has a fixed pitch for convenience.
@@edwardkuenzi5751Yeah, I honestly do think tuning to a piano for a concerto makes the most sense, and probably for any piece with a piano. This basically goes with what I was saying about how tuning is only relevant to the starting pitch an orchestra is given. For instance if the piano is tuned sharp at 442Hz, everyone will play sharp. Thus a tuner at 440Hz is irrelevant.
To be technically sound, the oboist should tune to the piano or organ, or harpsichord first. These instruments cannot be adjusted quickly right before performing. Then the oboist should be responsible (look at a meter is the best approach) and match that target pitch found by checking the keyboard instrument. Glockenspiel and orchestra bells are also just like this. If it was me in 1st oboe chair I'd go out around a half hour before the concert and check these instruments'' pitch.
There could be many reasons for tuning to the oboe. First, when symphony orchestras were starting out, aside from strings, the next most frequent instruments written for in a composition were oboes and horns. If a piece was only written for strings, you obviously would tune to the concertmaster (1st chair, 1st violin), who could conceivably first tune to a nearby piano, especially if the piano was written for in the piece itself. The problem is that tuning to a string instrument means tuning to an instrument that produces many, many overtones because, by construction, string instruments have open, adjacent strings that unfortunately get activated...they vibrate...when any of the other strings are sounded. Horns and, for that matter, other woodwinds like flute, clarinet, bassoon either don't project as nicely as the oboe (very penetrating sound that everybody hears without difficulty) and is a fairly pure tone with minimal generation of harmonic overtones, especially at A4.
Not the "BARBARIAN" court - it should be BAVARIAN. Munich is in the province of Bavaria and this was the name already by the time of the rise of violin family instruments. The basic story is entirely true. This is truly due to tradition. And yes, there have been various pitch basis, with not all of it being strict A=440 hz. People have even tried targeting A=430 hz.
Lol you think people are actually tuning to you? These days that is just out of tradition and it tells the audience to shut up. The cornets of that period were not like the modern cornets. At that time they were a wood instrument covered with leather, a wood or brass mouthpiece copped like modern brass instruments but it had holes like a wood wind, played with buzzed lips.
In an orchestra, that's how it is. But in ensembles like school or community bands, where the musicians are less experienced, the oboe often has to tune one section at a time so they can adjust to the proper intonation. I know this from experience as 1st oboe in youth orchestra and town band. :)
the oboe tunes the orchestra because an oboe cant tune to anything else
Lol 😂
Oboists can tune to tuners, electronic or otherwise.
5:31 the exact pitch does matter at least for us string players. My violin was built specifically resonate well at its tonal range centered around A=440 hz. When i use a lower A, i can of course tune the other strings to that, and play in tune relative to that lower A- but the instrument will not project as much, the sound loses some of its luster and it will literally produce less sound. I also find it harder to play in a different tuning because i constantly notice that it's all slightly off and what i hear won't match with muscle memory. Getting double stops in tune becomes harder too.
Not to be overly pedantic or anything like that of course, just wanted to add this! Your video was really interesting, i was literally wondering why we use hoboe for tuning just the other day.
Edit: my own theory for the reason why (this was before i watched the video), was that it might be because the hoboe produces quite a pure sound compared to other woodwinds. A bassoon or clarinet with a more rich timbre would maybe have too 'fuzzy' of an A, making it harder for everyone else to tune to their tone. Especially with a flute, the sound has a lot of character but i don't think it would make the easiest instrument to tune to. But the hoboe can be quite nasal sounding so maybe there's a bit more A in the timbre and less overtones / other pitches.
It still wouldn't explain why you wouldn't just use a french horn or a trumpet though, as like you said they're louder and arguably it's even easier to tune to that.
Thanks for sharing! This is very interesting because for me the reed changes the tonal center and not my instrument. I find that my instrument likes to play flat naturally, but I always have to raise the pitch to be in tune. Great thoughts though!
This. Modern instruments are extremely sensitive to absolute pitch discrepancies. There’s a reason why an instrument says “440Hz” when you buy it. It’s because it’s designed to play with the most ease and projection with that tonal center. By adjusting string tension or woodwind cork/head joint length or brass valves you are sacrificing intonation, tone quality, loudness, dynamics, range of colors, and playability to a tangible extent. It may not matter that much in a lower skill setting, but professional players will *definitely* notice a huge difference in their playing. Plus, what are you gonna do about mallet percussion? They’re stuck at 440 or 442Hz (vibes/glock) no matter what!
I miss playing. I played for 20 years until it cracked and I couldn't buy a replacement.
matur suksma😊
Question and comment:
First thanks for the podcast, very interesting
If a piano is used why wouldn't the oboe tune to that instrument? You can't tune the piano as easily as other instrument.
Comment: I played a military gig in a large auditorium. The conductor used the chimes as a tonal center.
Wow that’s really cool that you guys used the chimes for the tonal center. And great, question, I might’ve have not made it clear in the podcast, but you would tune to the piano or instrument that has a fixed pitch for convenience.
Loved listening to this!!
Thanks!
Who else thought that was a plunger in the thumbnail 😭✋
😂
great topic to start the series
Thanks! More to come in the future!
What if they are playing a piano concerto?
Or any piece that uses instruments whose intonation can't be adjusted quickly (piano, harp) or at all (glockenspiel), for that matter.
I’d say tune to the piano 🎹
@@Zekes_Oboe I'm not sure whether you're joking or not
@@edwardkuenzi5751Yeah, I honestly do think tuning to a piano for a concerto makes the most sense, and probably for any piece with a piano. This basically goes with what I was saying about how tuning is only relevant to the starting pitch an orchestra is given. For instance if the piano is tuned sharp at 442Hz, everyone will play sharp. Thus a tuner at 440Hz is irrelevant.
To be technically sound, the oboist should tune to the piano or organ, or harpsichord first. These instruments cannot be adjusted quickly right before performing. Then the oboist should be responsible (look at a meter is the best approach) and match that target pitch found by checking the keyboard instrument. Glockenspiel and orchestra bells are also just like this. If it was me in 1st oboe chair I'd go out around a half hour before the concert and check these instruments'' pitch.
There could be many reasons for tuning to the oboe. First, when symphony orchestras were starting out, aside from strings, the next most frequent instruments written for in a composition were oboes and horns. If a piece was only written for strings, you obviously would tune to the concertmaster (1st chair, 1st violin), who could conceivably first tune to a nearby piano, especially if the piano was written for in the piece itself. The problem is that tuning to a string instrument means tuning to an instrument that produces many, many overtones because, by construction, string instruments have open, adjacent strings that unfortunately get activated...they vibrate...when any of the other strings are sounded. Horns and, for that matter, other woodwinds like flute, clarinet, bassoon either don't project as nicely as the oboe (very penetrating sound that everybody hears without difficulty) and is a fairly pure tone with minimal generation of harmonic overtones, especially at A4.
I am not a musician, but I love learning about music. Thank you for this awesome educational podcast episode, Zeke!
You’re welcome!
Not the "BARBARIAN" court - it should be BAVARIAN. Munich is in the province of Bavaria and this was the name already by the time of the rise of violin family instruments. The basic story is entirely true. This is truly due to tradition. And yes, there have been various pitch basis, with not all of it being strict A=440 hz. People have even tried targeting A=430 hz.
Thanks for the catch! That makes more sense now haha.
yoo this is great (from an oboe and English hornist)
Grací!
Thought for sure I was watching a much more popular video for some reason
We are supposed to tune to the oboe? My band tunes to the clarinet.
that's weird - maybe ur school doesn't have an oboe or jus doesn't rely on the player to be in tune 💀
@@Yello96486 we had an oboe last year but she SUCKED
Wind band sometimes tunes to concertmaster (i.e. clarinet), but usually to oboe. Symphonic orchestra basically always tunes to oboe.
@@michielhorikx9863 ahhh ok
Lol you think people are actually tuning to you? These days that is just out of tradition and it tells the audience to shut up. The cornets of that period were not like the modern cornets. At that time they were a wood instrument covered with leather, a wood or brass mouthpiece copped like modern brass instruments but it had holes like a wood wind, played with buzzed lips.
In an orchestra, that's how it is. But in ensembles like school or community bands, where the musicians are less experienced, the oboe often has to tune one section at a time so they can adjust to the proper intonation. I know this from experience as 1st oboe in youth orchestra and town band. :)