12 Important lessons you will learn when building an electric motorcycle
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- čas přidán 22. 02. 2021
- These are what I believe are the 12 most important lessons a person will learn when building an electric motorcycle. It is best to learn these the easy way (by hearing it on a video) rather than the hard way (learning while building the bike).
There are other lessons you will learn, and others that you might not learn (like the importance of a diagonal stress bar between the lower portion of the steering stem and the swing arm pivot when building a cradle frame). The key is to get a good foundation and then start building your bike. Everyone learns from their builds... even the most experienced builders. - Jak na to + styl
Finally some one who’s honest talks plainly and is in no way trying to get you to buy X or Y via his affiliate link. Some of the advise was obvious but put all together its so much more.
Spot on advice- you so nailed it! It felt like you were reading from the script of my own 16-month build! Your "analysis paralysis" solution was particularly sage- think, analyse, get advice, sketch... then just stop thinking and jump in and do it. There's always a new lesson to be learned. You're electrical and I'm mechanical. It comforting to see the same kind of problems and solutions despite our different backgrounds. I'm in month 13 of an 8 month conversion of a Honda S90. 2 weeks to go, I swear!
My first motorcycle was a 1965 Honda S90. I still have it and it still runs. Did you ever get yours completed?
@@CAGreve1231yep, its all complete and properly registered in NSW, Australia. It's my daily ride to work, shops, everywhere! Totally happy with it!
That's awesome! Don't you just love it when a build comes together?
Love you man, love your blog! Thank you for important information and pretty useful things for electric motorcycle building! Brilliant!
Haha, range anxiety is more real than you've explained, and it's done very well. I'm riding a Fiido Q1 Cafe build, with a 72v 37.8ah molicel pack and I have STUPID BIG anxiety when it comes to range. It's always the best to build one that works so smoothly that when you go out, the only worry left is the range anxiety. It's not something very easily explained, as you've done here, but it hurts a bit especially for a new build. It'll go away after a while, or after you get to know what the range capability of the ev is. Props to you, man! I wish this video came out whilst I was in the midst of being a newbie builder, aha.
Congratulations on your 2nd bike success. Really good tips and advice there. Thank you very much.
Thank you for sharing this, it is great! Love the advice " if you don't know, then guess and try!"
Just started a build and came across this video, pure gold. Thanls for posting
Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Built an easy electric bike last summer and is planning for a bigger motorcycle this summer. Sounds like great insights.
IB crazy :). I used your antenna building guides back in the infancy of FPV before antennas were widely available. I have somehow run into your videos in many of my various hobbies since then,. always fun seeing you offer great knowledge on almost every hobby im currently into. Hope youre doing well!
It be crazy where you find this guy hanging out ;)
It also be crazy how many times I get injured doing things I shouldn't...
Thanks for sharing this! props!
words of wisdom! great stuff bud!!
You're a great presenter! Thanks for putting together this video!
Sir thank you for making the videos, they are great!
I am very thankful for this video. My dad passed away and left my brother and I two motorcycles. One is a Harley and the other is an old 1970's Kawasaki something or another. I don't want to destroy the Harley due to my dad absolutely loving that bike, but he would also approve of my ripping the Kawasaki apart and building a badass electric bike out of it, which is what I am wanting to do. I've been doing research for the past month on what to buy, where to buy, and so forth. I just came across this video and THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I was a mechanic by trade years ago and I quite wrenching, but I also used to do my own fabricating parts and tools when I was in that line of work, so I know how to fabricate as long as I have a plasma torch and a welder, but I'm not a great machinist and have no tools to do so. Fantastic advice
Inspiring video..thanks for the video
So great advise,
You waking up my brain.
LESSON 13 , WATERPROOFING !! WATERPROOF EVERYTHING !!
😂😂
Oh yes definitely
Nice 👍
Thanks a lot and built more bikes, yore a good guy 🙏
I'd say, this video is a genuinely good advice. Good job and good luck with your projects.
Thx. This sounds great. Now just to get the parts here in South Africa. I was thinking of tuning a 3 200W lawn-mover as an engine....
Very well done!
Alex Greve is doing electric motorcycles now. Whoddathunk I'd run into you again.Thanks for the tips!
Just gotta say that every point you make is accurate, especially analysis paralysis. It's quite difficult to convey to friends or family just how involved, how difficult it really is to make a functional electric motorcycle from scratch by yourself. It does take a long time. Budget blown out, forgotten about. Aquiring new tools and the skills to use them. The enormous sea of information with no clear path to follow. It all creates truly enjoyable problems to solve, you're in it so deep you can't quit, and then it all comes together a year later and it's something to be proud of on a humbling, truly satisfying level.
Congrats on the build Alex, hope to see more of the fpv community get in on this. We need them to help drive battery prices down, ha!
I am into electric bikes just like I am antennas. I gave away a lot of my early designs adn still give advice on FPV stuff. This is just a new arena for me ;)
6:30 I definitely agree with #6. This is the most important tip when building EVs IMO. There are so many armchair engineers online that just parrot what others say without understanding what they're doing.
3:07 as someone with a 10-year-old electric car with li-ion batteries (and this applies to a lot of other li-ion based stuff as well) that 4-8 years claim is very conservative. Good-quality cells like Panasonic batteries can definitely last well over 10 years.
I've also seen figures for LiFePo4 batteries in the 25 to 30 year range, so they can definitely last even longer than 20 years.
Real world / person advice, thank you.
I know I am kinda randomly asking but do anyone know a good place to watch new series online?
@Ira Ralph lately I have been using flixzone. Just google for it =)
@Nikolas Samuel Definitely, I've been using flixzone for years myself :D
@Nikolas Samuel thanks, signed up and it seems like a nice service :) I really appreciate it !
@Ira Ralph You are welcome :)
IBCrazy! Long time no see. Glad to see you have been up to awesome stuff.
Thanks for your advices... I'm trying to convert a Mobilete, an motorcycle but with pedals, here in Portugal is not legal to do so to a big motorcycle but with pedal we can...
I will follow your advices and ask what should I do an engine on the pedal or on the wheel? I'm thinking on a 2000w or better... I have already an old pack of an Vectrix Vx1 that was costum made A123 but some lines were death but other are still alive...
LOVE the content!!
Thank you!
Love your channel, wish you were closer to help me build an electric motorcycle
Priceless
thanks, from Belarus )
Spot on! Especially when it comes on to buying and returning parts🤦🏾♂️i though it was only me lol
Great advice, thanks for making the effort of sharing.
Question, what was the problem with the other motor controller? I understand that there was an incompatibility but in which way? I am super keen on building an electric motorcycle from an old bike but don't have a budget to do it now. I'm on a information gathering stage atm and in need to understand the subtleties
The throttle response was absolutely terrible. It would either give me very little power or go full throttle on me. It also only had constant speed mode and I want torque control, not speed.
hey, you're that guy i was talking to this morning tsk tsk...i am so jealous right now ;)
this guys a genius
I started with a very nice excellent condition GZ250 frame and tires, and then gave up when I realized the batteries would make it prohibitively expensive. Ended up selling the frame, and later buying a 3rrd gasoline motorcycle. Back then I only knew about Lipos, and later I'd solder up my own Lion battery packs using 27000's for fpv quadcopters, but I still think the prices for these motors and batteries don't make it yet feasible to build an electric replacement for my grocery haulers. I only need a 60 or so mile range but still.
Thank you for the great tips! I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on using a NiMH battery on a build. I have an 05 hybrid accord battery I was planning on using, after I re organize the setup a bit to 72V
current set up goes with a 72V eq7-4003 brushed DC motor, shaft driven, on a 83 honda gl1100 frame
NiMh is a well-known and solid technology. While slightly heavier than lithium based batteries, they have proven to be able to take quite a lot of abuse. I would say that it is a solid tech to use.
@@highervoltage5430 very finicky to charge though.
Very honest advice, how do I reach out to u for more suggestions for my project
Thanks for saving us some heartache
That's the point. Learn lessons the cheap way by watching CZcams ;)
It's hard to tell if your videos are more inspiration or education because they're a heck of a lot of both.
I watched this when it came out and again today. As we convert our '04 GS500F to a 8KW, 72V hub motor, we're learning a metric ton and your points still apply every few steps, LOL. We've had to add "ears" to connect the hub motor that stick into the ends of the existing swingarm. I've been rather unimpressed w/the limited details that Siaecosys provides so far, so we may change controllers to get better CAN BUS doc, to your point about re-buying.
Using an "agile design" approach has helped us on this and other projects as has having someone who's good at mechanical/welding and someone else who's good at electronics. We're teaching each other and learning at the same time. We're all really looking forward to riding this when it's done. The project goals are 60mph+ for 60mi+,
Hi
Thank you for presenting your video
Can you advise for parts?
And what about the motor?
Motor: GOlden Motor 10kW
Controller: ASI BAC4000
Batteries: 24X LiFePo4 / 85Ah from OSN Power
12V converter: some $70 unit I found on Digikey (forget what it is called)
Charger: Got it from the battery manufacturer's recommendation
BMS: built it myself form a bunch of 4S balancers
Hell Higher Voltage, just out of curiosity what motor controller did you initially get that you didn't like the throttle response? What did you replace it with? I'm looking build an electric motorcycle, very impressed with your bikes. I'm looking into using a Sevcon Gen 4 controller.
ASI BAC4000 is what's in it now (this is my other account). The Golden Motor controller I had in it just irritated me. Sure it worked, but I'd shut the throttle down and it would still be puling for another second or two which is extremely dangerous and annoying.
What background/skills would you say are the driving factor in your builds? Specifically motorcycle mechanics or more along the lines of electrician with welding and fabricating knowledge? Thanks
Great question! I am an electrical engineer by trade, so the electric part is very simple. However, I think anybody with a basic knowledge of electricity could do this. If you can troubleshoot electrical problems on a car or a motorcycle, you can do an electric vehicle with ease.
I am a mediocre welder at best and my mechanical engineering skills aren't my strong suit.... which might be my biggest problem and why I end up re-buying certain parts.
I would say any tinkerer should be able to build their own bike. And if they run into a point where they are having difficulty, I am always around to answer questions. Heck, I tend to give out my personal phone number to help people out.
I agree with Lifepo4 Chemistry, i recently switched from Li-Cobalt to Lifepo4 in my EEB BBSHD build for exact same reasons. Who needs there pride & joy ruined by a fault resulting in thermal runaway not mention potentially losing my garage or when ebike mounted on back of car, potentially losing car if fault occurs in cell. NO THANKS 😊 Good build
points there, cheers 👍 🍻
If tesla still gets thermal runaway issues with their EVs (non accident related) with their millions of money spent on safety & high build quality, then what hope has the average DIY ebiker have if any cell fault occurs with Li-Cobalt chemistry. 🤔🤷
I have heard that even Tesla also switched over there cell chemistry at one point to Lifepo4 cells. So theres a strong & valid indication that even Tesla cant risk their company name with such an event like a cell fault & thermal runaway.
If it was me telling people technical details like yours, morons would ask me where/what is my proof/footnotes/documentation. Thanks for your video :)
Wow so nice this video. I have q question. I have a 72v battery pack (6x 12.8 27ah lifepo). But each battery has seven wires ( red and black thick and five small wires ( red, black, white, yellow, blue). I don't know the fonction of those small wire. Are those important for charging?
Thanks for your time and help!!!
Balance wires. Very important!
quick question there are lipo batteries that have capabilties 20-30c compared to your 6c? I know the dangers of lipo but surely lipo would be able to cope better with the strains of an ev?
30C? No. Nothing can sustain that for any reasonable period of time without damage. 20C is the upper limit. If you want to use small pouch cells (no more than 2000mAh) with adequate cooling you can get 20C for 5 seconds or so.
Alex
Do you think it’s a good idea to have small 12v battery after the 12v dc-dc converter or maybe some fat caps? Or just converter then lights, no 12v power storage device?
I thought about that. The issue is that capacitors will discharge over the course of about an hour or so. So if you can close your master contactor manually to get the 12V going, capacitors will be ok.
I wish you would do videos on both bikes.
I did. The original is in my earlier videos.
so i'm curious if you are using a lithium phosphate battery that allows you to more completely discharge can you get more usable energy per charge vs lithium ion batteries that has higher energy density but cant safely be discharged as much? curious about the balance of that. like per weight how much range each one would provide.
1 kWh is 1 kWh regardless of source, unless we're talking about lead acid. All lithium batteries provide 100% of their rated capacity regardless of discharge rate. All lithium batteries are limited in life span by charge cycles, and subsequently best practice is to only discharge to 80% DOD to preserve battery life. This is every manufacturer's recommendation, and they know their products better than backyard builders. LFP is safer in that it's more stable in overdischarge (ie: overcurrent) conditions and doesn't overheat and explode like Li-ion in most cases, but that doesn't mean it can be overdischarged continuously every time you ride in a vain attempt to get better range than Li-ion without consequence. "More stable" during overdischarge doesn't mean perfectly stable. If you overdischarge any battery too much, you're asking for trouble in more ways than one. Also, if you drain the battery to 100% DOD every time you use it, then the battery will expire sooner than if you were to manage your charging cycles so that you're not always charging a fully dead battery. If you value your savings, you'll use it responsibly. Per weight Li-ion would win in regards to range simply because it's more energy dense. In the long run it will lose because Li-ion is only good for ~500 full charge/discharge cycles whereas LFP can go up to 5000 cycles - on avg LFP will last 10X longer even if you charge like a dummy by draining the batt dead every time. LFP will provide much more mileage in the long run for a cheaper price, and without the risk of burning your ass off in a fiery explosion. Energy density differences be damned, LFP has an edge over Li-ion if used responsibly.
@@JamesBiggar
Great explanation James, thanks.
Sodium Ion. I am building an electric dirt bike with those cells now. They can be discharged all the way down without damage. My concern, though is they do not like cold weather. We'll see how it goes when it is done.
got a parts list?
dud where are you! when are you going to start uploading again??? I need more great info like this I found some of this things by analyzing and research but hearing them 1st hand is awsome
start uploading again pls :D
Lithium fires are very blown out of proportion and if you do ever have issues use LOTS and LOTS of water. I don't care if it's in your basement or your bedroom, use the garden hose on it full blast until you can get it safely outside to "chill". Thermal runway is just that, thermal. Water has some really great thermal properties and no lithium chem currently can displace enough energy to beat a garden hose
Great advice, somebody is gonna get blown up becouse of your “advice”
Dude... no... Seriously. Lithium is an alkaline metal. it combusts spontaneously with water. If your bike burns, push it outside fast. If you have sand or concrete, use it. If all you have is water, wet the area around so it doesn't spread but hit the batteries and it is going to be a massive mistake.
iBCrazy budget pit bike coming soon? :)
Could you put up a parts list for you second bike. Could be useful
I *could* but the issue is that I only have experience with the brands I have used. In my other video where I go over my street bike build, I show you all of the general components without brands. I don't like to append my name to a company or brand without having a lot of experience with them.
What kind of dc-dc would you use for 120-12 to power a motorcycle
Also charger for 32a lifepo4
@@ryanmccutcheon0904 - Sorry I missed this! I got my converter from DigiKey. It was $92. As for charger, I got mine from OSN power. $100 for the charger.
I feel like I am watching the diy osh/HD channel on cable television🤣 how I miss those day "need to fix your toilet plumbing stay tuned after this brief commercial" 🙌
Are you ibcrazy from the drone vids?
Yep ;)
I am still stalled at the start, where to find bikes with blown motors
Lifepo me to. 😀😀😀
Congratulations.
On building e bike
Graphine cells far better they can be put out with water if they do light up and they have x2 more charge capacity means you can have x2 the range for the sane size battery if you built a lithium one.
Can you use washing machine motor
Maybe with the right controller, but I wouldn't recommend it. There isn't much to them these days.
Interesting how I've also ended up doing EV projects after years of being in the FPV world
It's the natural transition ;)
how about lead acid battery?
No, they pollute the water, so they're not good to use as an anchor. Even worse in an ev.
Where is the advice for better range, and efficiency
I'm in deep trouble.
LTO would be good, lesser range, but charges in no time
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like technology is rapidly advancing and a lot of these problems that you ran into may now be solved by simpler systems. For instance now they have a hub that can do 5,000 Watts with a 72v. Battery and it comes with a kit which is plug and Play.
Ever ride a hub motor bike? The unsprung weight really affects the handling. I did an electric bicycle with one and another with a center drive. I hate the hub motor and wished I would have gone with the center drive.
@@CAGreve1231 i agree
@@CAGreve1231 Bicycle? But what about motorcycle? Are you apple and oranging this comment?
Chain drive makes so much noise specially in EV how to reduce that ?
Belt drive
@@jeremywheeler8417 with chain drive it’s there any solution
@@kaviisworld not that I know of but I don't know much about such things. Only what I've seen in other CZcams videos
@@jeremywheeler8417 yes ok I have some sticky lubricant for chain noice is reduce but not completely I need to find some sweet spot
i think i have a wallet paralysis
I think you meant a 520 not 420 sprocket is not compatible with a industrial motor. Both of my electric motorcycles use 420 rear sprockets with a #40 front sprocket on the motor. 420=#40 425=41 & 530=#50
Yep. Misspoke. Also had an error mentioning LiFe when I meant LiPo... Oops...
0_0 this..... is gonna take a while!!!!
Forgot about LTO batteries
What was the tooth sprocket count and price" I'm building a bike also" DO YOU STILL HAVE THAT ONE LAYING AROUND..$$$$
10 on the front, 61 on the rear (now). Yes I still have that massive gear somewhere...
I think you should research a bit about liion technology. There are plenty of liion chemistrys which are very safe and have a high discharge rate and capacity. Dont get me wrong but this Video isnt that old and your information booth looks like it is on 2015.
Li-ion is just one type of lithium battery, and the go-to battery for shat talking about lithium tech. LiFePo4 (or LFP for short) is REALLY safe, the safest I believe. Still a small risk of fire in certain rare circumstances but a person can literally drive a metal rod through a cell and the most that will happen is some swelling. I use batteryhookup's LFP cells these days. Really good specs. Not as energy dense as li-ion but still have great capacity and charge/discharge specs, and they'll last almost 10 times longer. I won't use anything else until LTO comes down in price.
@@JamesBiggar thanks James.
For 500 dollars, i bought a crazy supermoto without engine. A 2000w motor and 14,7ah new lg m50t battery with charger. For only 500 dollar i built it
Lithium Ion? That’s not a Chemistry.
Video should talk about the different chemistries and pro’s/con’s. 😉
First Comment!
So all Tesla and similar mass production Electric car owners are actually keeping bomb in their garages, which is probably something like 2 Kilo of TNT or C-4!!!
RPM = revolutions per minute and NEVER gets an S on the end because it's already plural. Do you really want to say revolutions per minutes? No
You didn't build your own motorcycle. You converted your own motorcycle! Just saying..
any chance you have an idea why my 72v 3kw system came with 2 relay flashers? and then why the system blew the signal flasher relay only 5 minutes after wiring it up? and awesome video. Getting, installing and programming my Fardriver sucked butt. I wish someone would make a literal pop and play set up with customising. Are those batts LiFePo4? and Prismatic just wondering? I also only use LiFePo4 batts due to their safe factor actually. But Alex keeps sending me the crappy pouch version even though I demand the Prismatic version and they refuse to return my money What is amazing is no one has bothered to jump in and start producing specifically, the parts everyone absolutely needs when doing this those people need tog et it in gear for us! Like Wiring harnesses, someone needs to simplify the turn signal break and running lamps, and head lamp set up coming off the wiring loom and make it so it does not keep dying and breaking down that would be helpful,