Some People Don't Get It - Star Wars Changes
Vložit
- čas přidán 15. 10. 2023
- Some people don't seem to understand the broader problem with the Star Wars changes and the lack of preserving the original theatrical cut of the original Star Wars trilogy.
HelloGreedo is an all-things Star Wars CZcams Channel. Parody, News, Reviews, and More!
www.HelloGreedo.com
/ hellogreedo
/ official_hellogreedo
/ hellogreedo
Videos about 4k77 and Harmy's:
1) Despecialized vs Project 4k77 vs Star Wars Official 2011 Blu-Ray
• Despecialized vs Proje...
2) Despecialized vs 4k83 vs Official Blu-Ray - RETURN OF THE JEDI
• Despecialized vs 4K83 ...
BECOME A MEMBER AND SUPPORT THE CHANNEL!
/ @hellogreedo
Join the HelloGreedo Discord server here: / discord
Support the Channel on Patreon:
/ hellogreedo - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Why I’m forever grateful for Harmy’s despecialized edition
The DVD theatrical editions are also non-anamorphic and taken from the laserdiscs.
It’s like being a historian. Preserve history and don’t change it to fit a narrative. Watch all and compare
Exactly. You see all the time people do restorations and remasters of old films or albums in the digital space, and that's fine in most cases, but actually changing the original isn't okay. It would be like Lynyrd Skynyrd re-recording parts of the iconic Free Bird guitar solo to get a cleaner take, or add a little jazz because that's what they're into now. Ridiculous.
Gotta recommend Rick Worley's video on all the changes done to the six films in the Lucas saga. Whether you think the changes are good or bad I think he provides a very in depth analysis on specifically directors going back and changing their art.
Rick Worley: czcams.com/video/xaeTOMvf67c/video.htmlsi=gWvUCdkbCfgWCShm
“The last official release of the original versions of Star Wars came out on DVD in 2006, almost 20 YEARS ago”
Words can’t describe the heartache I had hearing that. It doesn’t feel that long ago.
But even those aren’t the “originals”
@@bradybaker7650they are
@@saintfreezy6914 I'm guessing Brady is referring to the technical differences in the original 1977 like the mono and stereo mix, but I'm pretty sure when everyone talks about wanting the originals they're talking about the versions before the Special Edition.
And those arent even dvd quality, they are a non-anamorphic rip of the 1993 laserdisk
So 30 years really, and the last theatrical 70mm run of all three was 1985, so going on 40 years since seeing them im their prime
I was born the year 2004 and my belief is "Less is more." Which is also how I describe the three threatrical cuts of Star Wars. I may have never discover them if my grandmother didn't introduce to me the original movies on Vhs. That is why I stopped watching the Special Edition.
Do you recall this recited commercial from 1995?
-For those who remember.
-For those who will never get.
-And for a whole new generation who will experience for the very first time.
-The Star Wars trilogy.
-Three time less adventures that changed movie forever.
-Now the entire trilogy digitally mastered at THX for the ultimate sound and picture quality.
-This will be your last chance to own the original of Star Wars.
-The George Lucus Masterpiece that launched the Star Wars trilogy.
-The Force is forever for all generations.
-The original Star Wars Trilogy on video;
-ONE LAST TIME!
I’m proud of you, kid.
It's called marketing...
It's easy to forget that Marcia Lucas, Paul Hirsch, and Richard Chew won an Academy Award for Best Editing, and John Dijkstra won an Oscar for best VFX. The work that won those awards doesn't exist in an intact form anymore, at least not officially.
There’s someone in the comments defending Lucas talking about artistic intent and all that, but the raises the question, what about all the other artists? Film is a collaborative art form, and Lucas shouldn’t be able to wait twenty years and then decide that none of what those people did matters.
@@samuelbarber6177 "Muh, but they were George Lucas's films, muh."
If you put hundreds of hours of your life into something only to have it erased for something of lesser quality twenty years later, you would be pretty pissed. People who blindly defend Lucas because he owned LucasFilms need to realize that if the very same thing happed where they worked they would have a different opinion, I'm sure.
Hey bud. They signed on for the directors vision. That's all cinema
It sycks but they knew that going in. They won the awards and time moved on. Theres better editing than in 1977
Also why do awards matter. Wouldnt it be quality either way. If they lost it would still be good editing just not enough to win a dumb arbitrary award
@@katakesh8566 "Directors vision" when George Lucas only directed the first movie in the trilogy. OK, sure.
@@samuelbarber6177 you pay someone to fix your roof, does that make it their roof for what you assigned them to do? It sure became a part of your roof but it’s no ownership. George Lucas according to Marsha was said to have contributed as much in the editing process and helped shaped the film. The early 10 minutes were not her idea instead she insisted on the now deleted Biggs and Luke scene.
Lucas had developed ILM to get his vision done. The people hired at ILM did their job and when they saw the same effects looking dated they fixed them with new workers. It’s not a good argument to say hired modeling and matte painting crews have much of a say when they are told to just do the effect. They get screen time for BTS videos which isn’t saying much for a lot of the same people in the industry.
Representin Gen Z, yeah. Im with you on preserving the originals. I’m fine with the special editions existing as long as the original cut is widely avalible
I think most people would be. The only reason it’s worth complaining about is because the original versions aren’t widely available. The original Star Wars is my favourite movie of all time and it’s really sad to not be able to see it in HD. In terms of art, I guess I am fine with George Lucas being able to go back and change stuff, while I am a bit iffy with Director’s Cuts nowadays, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of other artist’s work.
Ur gonna hate it we all to use to 4k now lmaoo
@@gorcsauce696what? We want the originals remastered in 4k
@@megasystem8473Lucasfilm themselves said the task impossible and expensive, no reason to go back and lose money that way.
@gr-8166 The task is hard but not impossible, there are Charlie Chaplin films that are decades older then Star Wars available in wonderful HD, they were restored beautifully and look like they were shot a month ago, restoring Star Wars can still be done, especially since "A New Hope" was restored again for the 4k version, even though it still included the special edition alterations, consider this also Project 4k77 that HelloGreedo is showing in the video was a film print restored by fans themselves, if fans can do it, so can Disney
Also since Disney is the biggest film corporation on the planet, it would be easy for them to fund it, especially considering how much theyre wasting money on remakes and rehashes, the price for this task is more justified and they wouldn't lose money at all, every physical media release they've done recently has sold well since so many people asked for it and fans have been asking for Star Wars unaltered for decades, I guarantee if they did that, they would all sell out incredibly fast
It never made sense to replace Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen for obvious reasons. 5 mins earlier we just had an emotional scene with Luke and old Anakin who is clearly his old self again but then 5 mins. later we are supposed to accept that old Anakin never returned and with regrets and words for Luke and Leia?
It makes zero sense to show him as young when he has become a ghost. Like what if he had survived? Of course then he would be old Anakin full of remorse but happy too see his kids finally.
Nearly twenty years later and we can’t even have a bog standard Blu ray release of these films. Shameful.
I honestly LOVE a lot of changes that were made over the years. It's still an atrocity that one of the most influential, no, THE most influential movie of ALL TIME doesn't have a high resolution release of the theatrical release!!
I swear, some Star Wars fans are so stuck in their own echo chamber, so set in their ways that they act like spoiled children who think they know what’s best for the Star Wars franchise. It’s aggravating that the fandom hasn’t changed or learned ANYTHING.
Right? Why can't they just shovel down their throats whatever gets shoved into their faces without question like a real fan should?
Yah, it's pretty sad...
Similar to this pattern with SW, here's another pattern.
1. New movies come out.
2. A group of people dont like.
3. Appreciated down the line by generation that grew up with it.
Im not the biggest fan of TROS, but I thought TFA & TLJ had ROTJ levels of greatness. A good, entertaining movie, but not quite perfect due to some issues purely based on my personal taste...and that's okay.
Like what you like. Don't like what you don't like. And don't be an annoying little prick when people have an opposite opinion. It's pretty simple.
So true sometimes I act that way, all I want is to get rid of that stupid space brontosaur (AKA Ronto)
Essentially, there’s a major toxicity problem with the Star Wars fanbase. On the one hand we have Fandom Menace people who constantly whine about everything Disney does and pretends that George never got hate.
On the other hand, there are the fans who are examples of toxic positivity in that they don’t want to hear ANY criticism of the franchise even if it’s valid criticism such as the original versions never having any official releases after 2006 (and even those DVDs were just LaserDisc transfers…and those LaserDiscs are still better than those DVDs) or Ahsoka requiring you to watch Clone Wars, Rebels, and Mandalorian.
Over the years I've come to understand your POV more than I ever have. Preserving the original versions that brought in the popularity in the first place is important for preserving a piece of film history. The one problem with endorsing these versions is having to discard everything that came afterwards (prequels, sequels, etc.) as there will be plenty to nitpick and see inconsistencies with. I also acknowledge the fact there are people who actually do think that, but I'm not going to bother with them. Everyone can experience it however they want being able to pick and choose is better than forcing it onto people.
I personally don't see why or how endorsing the Unaltered Original Trilogy suddenly means you have to throw out everything that was inconsistent with it afterward because much of the inconsistencies with the Original Trilogy the later Star Wars stuff happened was still present eveb with the latest SE release on Disney+; probably more so now all things considered.
Bizarre take. “Consistency” with later works is not even remotely important. This is about preserving three films that changed an entire art form. Immortalising the original films in their original format so that their original innovations and accomplishments are documented for future filmmakers and audiences. The revised versions no longer showcase the award winning special effects that made Star Wars a major touchstone. That’s a real problem that will damage the legacy of these films in the long run. Far more than any minor narrative or visual inconsistencies with sequels and prequels made decades later.
Don't fall for this cr*p. It's not about preserving the original versions. It's purely about his entitlement towards his childhood nostalgia. Rick Worley has an extensively researched and well cited 3+ hours long video about this issue, breaking down everything in regards to the "special editions", starting with the fact, that what clowns like HelloGreedo dub "the original theatrical release" are not in fact the original theatrical releases, because such a thing never existed, since ANH actually had 4 versions released in 1977. What they think is the "original theatrical" version is actually the first home video release, which was already a mash-up of the different versions from '77.
@@Verebazs Talk about completely missing the point. Yeah, many movies have multiple cuts in circulation during their initial cinematic run. Usually it takes the form of slight alterations to the editing. Cutting earlier or later in a take, for example. Ideally, all these various cuts should be preserved. There’s no reason they can’t be. Fans have managed to restore several 16mm and 35mm cuts of the original films, after all. So why are you trying to use the existence of multiple theatrical cuts as some kind of counterpoint to preservation? Not very well thought out of you. It seems like you’re bending the evidence to justify dismissing the issue of preservation rather than following it to the logical conclusion, which is that all these cuts, including the earlier home releases and various revisions of the special editions, should be preserved.
@@mphylo2296 Don't pretend that you care about preservation, anymore than I do. Rick Worley actually does, and countered your cr*p in his video.
I wish there a option on Disney + to choose between the special edition or the theatrical version in 4K
I'm not even Star Wars fan and even I get the importance of preserving history. Wish I could say the same about video game companies. They're making piracy an obligation when it comes to keeping history alive...
As a 52 year old who remembers seeing them on opening night, I agree with you 100%. I would love to have quality copies of each version. I feel sad that as I get older, I don't remember the original version as well as I used to. There are edits that I absolutely hate, but I still watch Star Wars because I love Star Wars. I'd love to show my family the way I remember it.
I can recommend the Star Wars Despecialized Editions that he mentioned near the end, and the official Facebook page has a guide that gives different options for how to find them. Re-watching the theatrical cut of A New Hope last night in HD was awesome!
I cannot live without star wars and empire strikes back on 4k77 and 4k80 beta 3.i watched 4k80 beta 3 so many times I loved it
Download the Project 4K77, 4K80 and 4K83 and feel like a child again.
Some fans simply don't see movies as art, and by extension they don't care about art preservation. They just see movies as products, hence the callous disregard for the absence of those original verisons on current formats.
But wouldn’t the artists preferred version be the most important?
I view film as art, I believe the artist should be allowed to change their art to better fit their vision and that it should be up to them how their film is preserved. I do not believe corporations should be allowed to change an artist's work in order to make more money or whatever reason.
@@TurboTurds30George Lucas is not the only artist who worked on Star Wars. His vision is not the complete vision.
@@TurboTurds30We're talking about rereleasing the original versions, not making new ones
@@bradybaker7650 Nobody is stoping Lucas from releasing his preferred versions.
The problem is impeding people from seeing the original versions.
I'd go one step further with the preservation idea. I want the option to have the mono or stereo versions. They have different dialogue, different voice actors, different sound effects etc. Hope you do a video on those changes one day. Aunt beru has a different voice between both versions!
I know it’s not an official release,but at least Harmy’s Despecialized Edition has the mono track as an audio option.I watched Star Wars in mono a couple of weeks ago.
I just wish that the original theatrical versions of the OT films can get some official release on Blu-ray along with the special editions.
As a massive Blade Runner fan I have always found enjoyment in comparing and contrasting with each version and I sort of feel the same way with the OT.
My one wish still for this franchise, is what I like to call "The Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Edition". Includes the original theatrical set (w/alternate angles, so you can pick to have 'Episode IV' A New Hope' for the people who grew up on the VHS and Laserdisc), the '97 Special Editions, the 2004 version, the 2011 version, and the 2019 version. On the 2004/2011 version perhaps they could utilize the alternate angles feature on blu-rays to do the changes if they wanted those two to occupy the same disc. I would also want to include all the bonus material that ever came out in the history of the trilogy. The boxset would probably end up being over 20 discs big, but it seems like it would be the only way to satisfy everyone. The one problem caveat is that with that big of a release it would be expensive and I know that some people would not want to dig deep and spend the money to get every version when they just want one version. But there needs to be a preservation effort for all of the versions, they shouldn't cherry pick which ones get preserved if at all. Like the '97 versions are the hardest ones to watch now which is very strange, and not great considering they were the basis for everything else.
I think there actually are some good changes in prior versions of the Special Editions. Like in the 1997 version of Return of the Jedi where it has the updated music at the end while still keeping Sebastian Shaw. They should release all versions of the original trilogy. That would be amazing to pick up a boxset that contains the Original Theatrical cuts, the 1997, 2004 and 2011 Special Editions.
While, I dislike the vast majority of Special Editions changes over the years, the new musical cue at the end of 'Return of the Jedi' is hands down my favourite -- the ONE I would personally include in my 'ideal' version of the trilogy. It really elevates that whole sequence, making it feel both more poignant and triumphant at the same time. Another home run from John Williams.
finally got my hands on the despecalized blu ray, it was like seeing an old friend after many years only seeing them in pictures. It brougt me back to my childhood, it was a famliar taste to something that I hadn't consumed in a long time.
WOW, the side by side comparisons of DVD and 4K is insane! Also, aaaaahhhh the Greedo mask returns!!
I went to the 40th anniversary re-release of Return of The Jedi in theaters earlier this year and I was hoping that I'd get a chance to see the original version on the big screen, but I was disappointed when they just played the Blu-ray version. Such a missed opportunity there, seeing the original films in their original versions just in modern quality in a theater would be a dream
Also, as I a fan of the 1997 versions. It's frustrating that they can only be found on VHS or V/CD. I would really like to see all the versions released in 4k.
The funny thing to me, especially in recent years, I feel like you’ve been very fair to all parties. Like you’ve said many times over its not about the changes with you, you just want all versions to be readily available…to which you’ve also said, they are (if in unofficial, fan capacity). I literally have each of the major cuts cuz I personally like comparing all of the changes. I grew up with the 97 versions, but I agree they should all have an official release. However, it’s still easier to swallow when we have such great fan restorations.
Hell, The irony of ironies there is that the 97 version is probably the most difficult to watch cut of the film for most people as it’s stuck on VHS or Laserdisc. But you barely hear anyone mention that. Funnily enough, to a question you raised in the video, I never considered myself as having a “favorite” version of Star Wars besides the originals and whatever the newest cut is at the time…but I’ll be damned if I didn’t just get the 97 cut again on Laserdisc and got the “warm fuzzies” when I watched it a couple weeks back. It’s so weird…
Actually, as a kid of the first round of SE (old enough to have watched the “original cuts” but didn’t get into it till 97), I think some of it (as with the ST hate from PT fans) is almost reactionary. Many of these fans grew up with the common internet/public view seemed to be “Prequels and Special Editions = garbage” and felt like they had to essentially defend “their” films/version of films. Just now they do the same thing with the new guard that they had done to them. It’s all more tribalism we see thanks to the internet and social media.
Anyway, point is I do think there are many that are super negative about the very idea of the changes, but with you they’re barking up the wrong tree
Keep going Greedo, you're doing the Force's work
My skins still crawls every time I see a comment describe art as something that can be objectively judged. That mindset just takes all the magic out of cinema and art as a whole.
Those old HG vids are still my favorites. The world felt smaller. I was introduced to takes I had never thought of, and they were freaking hilarious. I should be a prequel fanboy. I was a little kid when they came out. But your videos made the OT my favorite, and I’m very happy about that.
I grew up with the Prequels too, but always found myself naturally gravitating towards the Original Trilogy more and more. I wasn't really sure why or put to words what made me think this or feel this way but there was something about them that just felt special.
As I got older and was more online I began to see a ton of disdain toward the Prequels; which confused me because "Why? It's Star Wars!" and as I wanted to learn how to write and possibly find a means to understanding why the Original Star Wars worked, I also learned more about the common criticisms of the Prequels, the real flaws that held them back and most importantly what not to do when telling a story.
I found HelloGreedo quite a few years after those revelations, I had already graduated high school and his earlier videos were fun.
I still stick around, I disagree with his views on the Sequel Trilogy, but eh. I honestly don't care much about that.
I'm 24. With how long I've been into Star Wars, I've live most of my life with the prequels being just as present as the Originals. The first time I saw the Originals was the special editions. For all intents and purposes, I'm a part of that age group that generally defends Star Wars as it was when we first saw them in the 2000s. That said, I'm pretty different compared to my contemporary pears with Star Wars. I don't really care for a good chunk of what the prequels offer and I massively prefer watching variations of the theatrical versions. I remember first watching that bonus DVD as a kid and not really realizing what made these vs the "normal" versions different but as I've come to love movies more and more as I've grown up, these theatrical versions are fare superior to me. The excessive CGI, poor color grading to me, and mostly unnecisary changes or additions feel like far inferior films. If I'm watching movies from the 70s and 80s, I want them to feel like they are from those time frames. I get that people have a connection to the first ways they experience films and many people my age or younger have only known special edition releases as their Star Wars but I want to be able to see Star Wars as it originally was because it feels more true to the series. Preserving film should mean preserving all versions of it.
You’d be surprised how Kubrick would handle his changes; he’d burn the cut out scenes so his vision is intact. Shinning had a cut 20 minute of the happier ending showing Shelly Duvall and the son character escaping from the Overlook Hotel.
While I’m 23, I use to be with this crowd up until I really started listening to George while applying to auteur theory and I can understand how disappointed he was. Seeing his many interviews being discontent with the final result gave me the impression that his film wasn’t as good as he’d want it to be. The trench run is an example in the sense that the 1997 sequence is slightly faster paced as films got progressively quicker with their cutting. Another aspect but with hindsight is George’s view of violence on screen, he didn’t like the officers getting shot in the detention level and quickly cut off a few frames just at the moment of impact. Michael Mann is well known for being much more touchy on his projects with multiple iterations with each release of his own film to the inclusion of his blue hues. Personally I prefer the director’s vision all the way in the sense that if he chooses to remove the other versions because it wasn’t his full vision, so be it. Even in my recent visit to watch rerelease of ROTJ then 4 & 5 at the AFI i realized that the changes don’t take away from their age for the younger audience. If anything they were as excited and as cheery when the same cues and scenes popped up. George was right and remains so, the current iteration of Star Wars will triumph all other versions and will be seen as the true vision of the saga.
Have a good one.
Insane timing with this upload, I've been having this exact moral struggle as I reevaluate my relationship with Star Wars. The existence of the Special Editions in and of themselves isn't wrong; the fact it comes at the expense of three pieces of cinematic history IS wrong.
People need to stop deifying George Lucas. Not every change he made was just 'genius ahead of its time'. Sometimes, they were lesser. But regardless, people want to see the film that helped change Cinema forever and unfortunately those films aren't 100% to Lucas' original vision and therefore he won't allow us to see them. 😮💨
The deifying of George Lucas was a peculiar inevitability. Especially the way official Lucasfilm produced documentaries tended to paubt Lucas in the best light possible.
The artist vision should be what matters.
@@bradybaker7650
Not at the expense of what the other artists have put into abd about cultural history.
At that point Lucas' personal ego can go check itself out the door.
@@randyrhoades8751 claiming we need every version, or the “original” version from an artist is weird and art has never worked that way. We don’t need every version of the hobbit to be in active circulation. We aren’t entitled to every scrapped version of the Mona Lisa.
@@bradybaker7650
If Ridley Scott can do it, I don't see why not.
Not wanting all the variants of a piece of art to compare and contrast due to some strange loyalty to a man who probably doesn't know you exist is even stranger!
What is absolutely perplexing is the lacknof interest or care towards art preservation because the whole "It's his vision!" excuse falls flat when you consider the fact his vision then changed twice with an altered Jabba CGI and an Added Luke scream when he threw himself off the oxygen regulator in Empire then took it out there after.
I bet the fellas who say that Lucas can do whatever he want are the same who complain about the new movies.
Some people think they should do one more revision of return of the Jedi because Hayden is now in his 50s and it would just make more sense for Anakin's physical appearance as a ghost to match how he appears in Ahsoka
Personally I think they should add more ghosts. I can't believe Qui-Gon would miss his boy's redemption party. What about Padme? And a few of those slaughtered younglings would look nice, I'm sure they wouldn't have any hard feelings.
Hayden is 41 not 50.
It's gonna sound weird but whenever there's a comparison shot of people between DVD and 4K, I prefer the DVD. The 4K in some instances dramatically changes the color of what they're wearing. But this is also coming from someone who really like older media in general, so I don't mind things looking a bit aged when I'm watching them.
the strangest thing is the ILM docoseries had clips from the original prints, but they didn't release them so you could see the effects in the film....
the one change i really like is changing the english writing on some death star terminals to arabesh. that one actually makes sense. not making greedo shoot first though.
But according to George greedo always shot first, he was making it more clear in rereleases
@@bradybaker7650 And now, they both shoot at exactly the same time. Either way, it's _really_ not that big a deal seeing as 1. Han had a blaster pointed at him the whole time so it was always self-defense, and 2. we find out with the reinserted hangar scene that Han was still in Jabba's good books at this point of the story, and Greedo was only supposed to scare Han into paying Jabba back, not kill him. Hence the "why did you fry poor Greedo?" line.
I'm pretty sure that Greedo was just bluffing, and that Jabba would have fed him to the rancor if he had killed Han.
I honestly think it's possible that Disney can't legally release the unaltered cuts as part of the signing agreement when they acquired Lucasfilm.
They can’t because it’s still Lucas’s. Kubrick did this, he literally burned the deleted scenes so any distributor has no ability to change and release new cuts. Even James Cameron’s titanic was updated with the constellation in the sky.
My point. Auteur theory is above consumer need look what Lucas said about the films, he was never happy with (1977), Vs changes was meant for Kushner as he was also disappointed with absence of a dynamic Cloud City setting in white halls, and the wompa. Even the trench run was sped up because it was seen as slow in 1997 when film started to have faster pacing.
Besides the Taschen book that covers the prequels also mentioned the remastering of the OT and they said it was too expensive to even get it done that it won’t be worth it.
The blade runner example is not a Ridley Scott decision what was his decision was the Final Cut. That specific Blu-ray set was a commercial decision that was also labeled as “Limited Edition”.
Rick Worley’s “How to Watch Star Wars: the Special Editions” extensively detailed how many changes there were in all six Lucas films… Example: there were three audio tracks in 1977 including dubbing with completely different actors. Which one is the legit edition? Surely then it has to be the assembly cut. Why don’t we petition for that since that’s the original Star Wars… it’s a pointless venture.
That video is 4 hours long… that’s how frequent these Star Wars changes have been happening, literally since the release of the saga.
That’s the prevailing theory so far. One last middle finger from Georgie Boy on his way out
I’ve been thinking that too. If Disney *could* do it, they would’ve done it years ago. Hell, they would’ve done it back in 2017, when it would’ve been perfect timing. They also could’ve done it when the saga was over and released all nine movies were available.
Idk, I want to be wrong and maybe Disney/Lucasfilm have this secret plan to release em in HD quality someday, but I don’t see it.
I think it was a way to screw over his ex wife
@@gr-8166 Yep, that is one of the most thorough documentaries on Star Wars in existence. Every Star Wars fan should watch it. He documents every known version of the the films and what the differences were. If I’m not mistaken, the digital enhancements are now a part of the original negatives and that’s why Lucas hasn’t released a blu-ray version of the theatrical cuts. I’d have to look into it again to be sure.
I totally agree. George should definitely be able to release new versions if he wants, even if they’re absolutely awful. He should have that freedom. What seems utterly bizarre is to not allow his audience the freedom to own the originals in a current HD format. If it were feasible, I would vote to take it out of Disney or GL’s hands directly and have Criterion release the originals on HD Blu Ray with their own artwork. Obviously that’s as insane an idea as replacing Sebastian Shaw’s head with Hayden’s but I can dream.
@@Joesph238yup, Sebastian Shaw, who played Anakin for about 5 seconds lol, who cares
That’s not how the criterion collection works, they’d work with George Lucas to show his preferred version most prominently
@@bradybaker7650 I did say it’s an insane idea.
@@bigdoubleu117 Yes, you’re absolutely right. George should replace Shaw’s head with Hayden’s in the Death Star scene as well as he’s had *so* much more screen time. And George should do the same with Jake Lloyd for the next Special Edition release of TPM - only the head though, of course.
@@MartinFGayford I’m in a bad mood today, sorry.
Film preservation and restoration is an important part of film history. That's not the same thing as criticizing modified versions of the film compared to the original.
My thoughts, exactly.
What makes me sad aren't those comment takes, it's the fact that some of them could have been 12 when they wrote them and now they are adults.
I'd like to experience the original theatrical releases of the OT, perhaps those versions but with modern video/audio quality, resolutions, and so on
Also at 1:54 whether intentional or not, the white reflection coming off from the middle to bottom of Greedo's eyes really makes him look angry while reading from his phone 👍
Some of my favorite movie moments were watching the originals on a giant curved screen full of people who cheered at the end of each one.
@@barkydogable Maybe related, but this year for May The 4th I went to watch ESB at my local theater and that was the first time I watched an OT movie on the big screen
I have strong nostalgia for both/all versions. Let us have both versions in the highest quality as possible!
They should be readily available and preserved as they are a big part of cinema history but I'm fine with the de-specialized versions. At least for now that's just how it is. Videogames and movies, series, all these have a real big problem when it comes to preservation.
I hear you so much on this topic. I feel this way about both Star Wars and the original 90's dub of Sailor Moon; yeah, the newer versions are improvements, but it's foolish to try and erase what once was and pretend it never happened. Preservation is key for classic works and should be released along side the new versions!
Oh, so that's what he looks like under the helmet. Neat.
Well said. One important note about those 2006 unaltered DVD’s that you didn’t mention is not only were they released nearly twenty years ago, but those DVD’s aren’t even anamorphic widescreen. By 2006, DVD has been around long enough that there shouldn’t be any excuse to have DVD’s that don’t fill the TV. If you want those DVDs to fill your widescreen TV’s, you have to change the setting to zoom in, and then the quality ends up being worse than 480p. My hope to get an official 4K (or even HD) remaster of the unaltered versions died when Maclunkey was unleashed upon the world, but you never know. 🤷🏻♂️
It’s simple, as a Gen-Xer we just want the option to choose which version to watch. For me, the importance is having a quality version to share with my kid. So he can compare and form his own opinion. That’s why preservation is so important.
I re-watched the Star Wars Despecialized Edition last night because I'm a nerd who had the means to get it, but for more casual, less tech-savvy viewers who are just curious, the best they have is low quality DVDs. Like you said, that's the only problem. If we had a Star Wars Collector's Set that had 5 versions like the Blade Runner set, that would be awesome.
You know what, I finally get it. Preservation especially for the original Star wars films isn't just important. It's essential. Now speaking for myself I am a fan of the 2004 special edition (mostly for Hayden not for anything else)
But as an increasing fan of films in general I now would like to see The originals. No edits, no tampering nothing. I do technically have them with the despecialized edition on Blu-ray. But those versions at the end of the day we're unofficial. I appreciate the fan effort but it's kind of the point. Fans shouldn't have to alter something just to be able to enjoy it how it originally was. That version should be accessible to everybody.
I finally get it greedo.
I agree with your points, and the OT really should be given the Alien Anthology treatment (all films in a box set, with the ability to choose either the theatrical cuts and special editions, with two discs with bonus features.) But at the end of the day, the lower quality of the DVDs are hardly unwatchable and I'll probably stand by the limited edition releases until the discs wear out, specifically because it offered both versions
Well maybe if they were in actual anamorphic widescreen then maybe. They couldn't even get that right so you either watch a tiny screen in the middle of your TV or zoom in on a blurry mess. It's not the quality but the aspect ratio that is the biggest problem for the 2006 DVD releases.
This is the other side of fans, not the toxic purists but the toxic newage that like every change because it's lucas. I was a filmmaker and also watch this through that lens, and it sucks you can't have a descent discussion with them. I'm glad you brought the film preservation topic into it
God i can only imagine a 4K Blade Runner esque boxset with all the different cuts in it. GOUT, 97SE, 04SE, 2012 Blu Ray, Maklunkey, hell even throw in the Lost Cut. I find special editions of movies facinating especially when made by the original creative teams, but we shouldn't have to pick just one and have everything else thrown out. Some fans just prefer different cuts of their favourite films and wish they were readily accessible, I genuinely don't understand why some people would be against that.
As an artist I Totally get George's view on it, "I wanted this scene to be this- but I was over budget with a fast approaching deadline, so I had to settle for that instead- now I have time and money to make it this like I wanted it to be." "Art isn't finished, it's just abandoned." And all that. I have sent in drawing assignments to teachers that I was not proud, things which I knew I needed more time on but my energy and clock just ran out and I had to settle. I may have gotten decent grades on those assignments, sure, my technical craft and skills were in the piece. But, at the end of the day, when I looked at it I could only see the things I didn't get to do with it- The stuff I wanted to fix and resubmit the piece for.
At the same time, If somebody preferred the version of it that I didn't fix up in my spare time, I'd happily offer them a print of the scan I took so that they could enjoy it for themselves.
To my knowledge, the big reason they don't release the Theatrical Cuts any more has to do with the film scanning process relating to the negatives and the special effects... When they cleaned up for the special editions, they still preserved a lot of original shots but ended up having to re-composite them because there was grain in the scans of the original composite which had come from the film negatives... Any shots that received digital enhancements had those composites removed before the scan and done in a computer. Essentially, to make a new 4k release in the crispest, highest quality possible for the foreseeable future- they would have to individually composite the film all over again. This is especially evident by the 04 DVD's using a laserdisk scan instead of the film stock.
LucasFilm/ILM has been digitizing all of the old film stock Lucas had hoarded over the years from everything he oversaw, but even then remaking the entire composite would be an absolute nightmare (And very expensive, but Disney Money).
The fact that no one had put out a blade runner style release with every version of the original trilogy is baffling to me
I personally prefer the Blu-ray version because it's the one who is the closest of the Lucas's vision but I agree that all versions should be available in modern quality for all the fans. Perhaps for the 50 years of a new hope Disney will do something...
I am a younger fan, I saw Revenge of the Sith in theaters as my first Star Wars movie theater experience when I was 6. I love those original 6 films. I grew up in the heat of all the changes happening with every rerelease, so I was able to get a great understanding of what worked, what didn’t, and found my own opinions on said changes to be mixed a lot of the time.
For instance, I like the addition of Hayden Christensen as Anakin’s force ghost, I think it ties the saga together and contextually fits better for me. Meanwhile, I don’t like other changes to Return of the Jedi, such as the beak on the Sarlaac, or Jedi Rocks. That’s just one example, though, and I find myself at that crossroad with every film in the OT.
While my preferred version will always be the Return of the Jedi with Hayden Christensen, I like the option to go back and watch those original cuts. I still love those versions, and I’m stuck with the last tapes they released of those in 96-97 that are not widescreen and have no VHS player to watch them on.
Give us the Theatricals in 4K! Hell, give us all the past versions in 4K!
I remember when I saw Attack of the Clones in theaters when I was 5 and Revenge of the Sith in theaters twice when I was 8. During the second experience, I wore a black sith cloak and had a plastic toy lightsaber on my belt. Good times.
You gotta watch “How to Watch Star Wars: The Special Editions are the Movies. Get Over it”
It really makes a fantastic explanation and arguable on why the special editions are the real movies. And the “originals” will never happen. And honestly really has no reason to.
I think most of us are not against the special editions themselves, but the fact that we dont have the option to watch the originals as well
The prequels also have changes from its original theatical cut to the dvds & and I don't see anyone complaining about it or demanding an original cut to be release. also many people arguing about that its about "film preservation" and still don't seem to care about any other film that isn't star wars.
Exactly!
As much as we talk about the importance of preserving the original cuts of Star Wars, how many people know that certain animated classics from Disney like The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast have been in pretty much the same boat because of changes that were made for their Special Editions?
I never understood the need to preserve the original versions till they made slight changes to the digital and physical releases of Across the Spider-verse (a movie that I absolutely loved in theaters) so now I know how it feels to want to watch the original version of something that you loved so much in theaters, I'm sorry for not understanding till now
Yes I would definitely like to see it the way it came out in 1977 in 4K. Let me see it without the enhancements.
I think this all boils down to the fact we should have the option to choose the edition we want to watch on the higher quality instead of us being told this how the movies are not deal with it BS and if you want the older edition watch the old releases
God bless harmy's despecialized editions
Yeah, the problem is that a lot of the time, wanting the original versions automatically triggers the assumption that you don't like the changes made for the Special Editions.
The complaints about the changes range from totally valid to "this is so minor it barely changes anything" but the point about preservation is often missed. Which is a shame because keeping that history of the originals alive is important. I'm glad 4K77 and Despecialized exist, but an official release would help us feel like Lucasfilm cares about the history, while also wanting to update the films as they see fit.
To me, George Lucas was a writer first, filmmaker second. And like a writer, he wants to make changes to his work when he feels like it's incomplete not what he wanted. It's like he wants to introduce the world to his unabridged copy of his book and fill it in with stuff he always wanted but his editors said no. So yeah, as a writer, I can understand the changes he wants to make.
And with the way the people reacted to the Disney Star Wars sequels and shows, I bet they wished somebody would make changes to those like George Lucas did with his SW Special Edition films. 😂
I think the thing that bothers me is that it’s the easiest fix in the world, they could do it today, but it seems like the reason they won’t is entirely out of spite.
I love my Harmy blu rays but tbh I want something with official special effects and packaging. I want to own it for real in addition. Not for everybody, but it would be my ideal situation
Totally fair but look at it this way. I see two benefits to the current situation.
1) you don’t have to pay extra and can get the unaltered versions for free (assuming you paid for the official version already)
2) you don’t have to give Disney more money
Me personally I agree with hellogreedo for a couple reasons. I think preserving the history of Star Wars is something most diehard fans should be praising as I personally think the history is more important that the vision of one man. As much as I love George Lucas you can tell his vision has changed over the years and with Disney’s grubby hands on Star Wars a lot of what older fans love has been lost to time. With the legends timeline being retconned and most of great pieces of storytelling lost to the abyss of “legends” I feel like what we as Star Wars fans should do is preserve the past for future fans. It’s what will keep Star Wars alive
Thanks for finally clarifying the point of the concerns of classic fans as perfectly as I've seen or been able to do myself. I by no means hate ALL the changes through the years, but those that don't understand the preservation of the history as being something of value really don't even belong being in the discussions.
We shouldn’t have to rely on fan preservation efforts to save each version of Star Wars. I just want to be able to choose things like puppet Yoda in TPM or a more open Cloud City in the Special Edition of ESB and then change it up the next time I watch Star Wars. Each version is interesting to me in its own way. And there are some versions locked away that only Disney can release like the IMAX version of AOTC. I want it all available in the best format possible.
"If you can't understand why is better to put an extra rock in front of R2D2 for it to make a little more sense about him being hidden [...]"
Dude, R2's cave has even more rocks in a way that he can't possibly squeeze in there. What are you talking about?
I haven't got a 4K player or 4K TV. However, every now and then Blu-ray or "1080" downgrades of 4K77, 4K80 and Despecialized Jedi appear on Ebay, anyone have any experiences of these? Do I throw my money at them? (...I'm not about to wall-mount a new TV as I'm still traumatised by the last time I did this.)
To be fair, Star Wars and Empire are now being preserved by the Library of Congress, so literally the US government is deciding to preserve those two movies. But yeah, I wish the original versions were more publically available, in newer formats.
as a person who doesn't mind the updated versions... I agree 100% with you. As a film fan, i really wish all the versions, especially the Original versions of the OT, were available in 4K. I'm pretty convinced that they DO exist, but that they are just being held in a vault for some reason. If Disney Star Wars wanted to earn back some good will, they should drop those bad boys tomorrow.
The crazier part of the 2006 DVDs is that they aren't even DVD remasters. They're laserdisc transfers from I believe 1993. 30 years old.
"They're laserdisc transfers from I believe 1993" And a poor transfer at that, you can see the weird digital blur and the aspect ratio is letterboxed in a 4:3 ratio.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 yeah, that too. Although I assume cropping it into 4:3 is to hide some of the pixelation. I've tried blowing the image up and it's not pretty.
As someone who grew up with the special editions, I’d rather watch the originals and would love them to release them again.
*2:08* "Yeah, I mean this guy is right" had me dying 🤣
Thank you. This is all I’ve been saying for years. Change whatever you want George. Just don’t dictate to me which one I can watch. The Blade Runner example is perfect. Allow the audience the choice, and preserve film history.
Going back to his roots! Man, it's been 10 years since I subscribed to him.
I didn’t realize they never released the original versions on blue ray. Wow 😮
As a kid I had the 2006 DVDs. Always watched the originals once I found out about them. Now I’ve got fan made restorations (think it’s Harmey Despecialized)
i did thankfully find the original trilogy on vhs in a small comic book store for $20. now i just gotta find my vcr haha
Calling them "changes" at this point seems a misnomer. The SE versions have almost been available longer than the original versions officially were.
Is the newest beta of 4k80 good enough to be done? When will the no dnr equivalent be out?
I like some changes, and dislike others. I also definitely agree that we should have the multiple options as we do for other films and TV shows.
I wish they would do what Doctor Who has been doing with the classic series where you get to choose if to watch it with original audio or updated audio and with original effects or updated effects
I remember after the special editions came out when I was a kid, I'd have the choice of which version to watch.
I really liked the special editions, but also I really liked the originals -
So sometimes I'd watch the original VHS's, sometimes, I'd watch the special editions.
The debate for me is all about having the ability to choose.
If they released a blu ray with all the versions on, or at the very least the current and original, then everyone wins.
They've done it with blade runner as hellogreedo mentioned, they've also done it with the alien films...
If people don't get it after this video, they just don't want to.
In short, I agree. I own pretty much all versions and I jump between them. There are changes I love and some I hate. Sometimes I want the higher resolution version and sometimes I want to 'kick it old-skool!' The fact the theatrical versions aren't readily available on every new format that comes along is just absurd. You'd think they'd want to make more money but I guess not. Think since the Disney/ Fox take over it's more plausible now given Fox held on to those distribution rights for ANH
That´s exactly my point, film history!! I can see how they modern fans see Star Wars like a very cool universe (which I also happen to love... most of the times haha) like UMC or Harry Potter, but they dont appreciate it as a piece of film history, that's why they don't get why we want an official release!
It’s insane that I’ve owned a theatrical cut of Return of the Jedi for all these years on DVD and just found out because of this video. It was the first Star Wars movie I believe I ever saw when I bought it in a grocery store when I was a kid. Growing up I only watched disc one, so I never knew the original version was on disc two. Now I’m more of film purist in as far as I want to see films the way they were presented originally; with a few exceptions though. The recent Star Trek: The Motion Picture Directives Edition is my favorite Star Trek film, and the Final Cut of Blade Runner is my favorite cut of that movie. As for Star Wars, I’m not a fan of the special editions (even though I really love the celebration music at the end of ROTJ special edition), I want to see the version of Star Wars that set the world on fire in 1977. Not the one that came out 20 years later.
I'm a fan of the Victory Celebration music change in ROTJ. Yub Nub may be nostalgic for some, but Victory Celebration gave that scene much more depth imo. I would prefere Sebastian Shaw in that scene than Hyden though. (no hate for Hyden he's awesome!)
If they don’t re-release the theatrical cuts on the FIFTIETH anniversary in 2027, they may as well never do it
A couple months ago I got the 2006 versions which came bundled with LaserDisc versions. It's the first time I've ever seen the theatrical editions. I loved it! Even though I grew up the 1997 versions, I almost prefer this version now!
I think regardless of whether you like the changes or not, the original should still be preserved NO MATTER WHAT. Please just let me buy a 4k set that has both the theatrical and special editions. As a cherry on top let me choose between the 97, 04, 11, and 19 versions.
I'd totally watch the original versions in 4K, but if I can't, I'll treasure my 2006 DVDs. They really should release the originals, and Disney can do it very easily.
Hey Greedo, I'm curious to know what's your favourite version of 4K77 and 4K83? (I know 4K80 is on it's way soon). You like a lot of DNR, or little?
I wish there was a version that just cleaned up the special effects (mattes around the tie fighters, transparent snow speeder cockpit frames, etc.) and left out the goofy shit (Greedo shooting first, Jabba in the hangar, etc.) I'd probably leave in the sandcrawler shots though they were dope.
Appreciating the more frequent uploads recently, solid content.
I grew up with that exact box set with the 2004 and theatrical cuts of the OT! Still have them on my shelf with the 2011 blu-ray releases.
I grew up mostly watching the 2004 special editions. I didn't start watching Star Wars until I was about 6 or 7 (late 2000s), but I have seen all the released cuts. I am all for the preservation of the theatrical cuts, all cuts of the films really. Blade Runner is the perfect example there.