Video není dostupné.
Omlouváme se.
Tikka to Ride review: The Downfall of Red Dwarf
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 08. 2024
- Midnight Chimes review of Red Dwarf series 7, episode 1 Tikka to Ride, the first episode in which Doug Naylor takes over as the sole writer of the sci-fi comedy show and introduces a new cinematic aesthetic. The Dwarfers inadvertently interfere with the assassination of President John F Kennedy
#RedDwarf #series7 #review
5/10
Check out the Everybody is Dead Dave Red Dwarf review podcast on Tikka to Ride:
• 'Tikka to Ride' │Every...
Twitter: / katcantcope
Subscribe: / @midnightchimey
0:00 Intro
0:48 Absence of Rimmer
1:36 Resolution of series 6 ending
2:53 Doug Naylor's cinematic Red Dwarf
4:50 Kennedy assassination and consistency
6:39 Conclusion
Fun Fact: If you listen to the audio commentary throughout Craig Charles and Danny John Jules do very little to hide the fact they hated Series VII citing poor writing.
I'll have to check that out sometime
Kristine Kochanski is not a bad character per se. It's just they really had no idea what to do with her.
They sort of had an idea in series 7 but after that Doug Naylor just gave up and couldn't write a plot/joke involving her that wasn't "lol she's a woman who has periods and does womany things"
@@MidnightChimey Probably because Doug Naylor was too focused on getting to 52 episodes at the time because it means it would qualify for syndication in the USA. Also I do agree with you Series VIII was the worst,
@@MidnightChimey The fact that Doug Naylor refuses to bring her back is quite telling.
Also the need to recast Claire Grogan... doesn't help the audience invest in the character. But, the change in writing feels like something is missing. It does feel like there's fewer ideas being batted about...
It started going wrong in the first scene of the first episode of series 7 when Lister says he matured.
Matured!? Who asked for or wanted to see that, the entire show had been based around him being an uncouth oaf and Rimmer his absolute antithesis.
To be fair Lister is implied to be a heavily unreliable narrator during that speech, and well, the rest of the episode demonstrates that
For me, Tikka to Ride ruined Red Dwarf. The 'moving the goalposts' issue is huge in my opinion. The whole premise of Red Dwarf is that they are stuck in space trying to get back to earth. Lister wants his farm on Fiji and all of that. But now suddenly they can go to earth instantly and they just want to bring curry back? Why the hell do they go back to Starbug when they can just teleport straight to Earth? Red Dwarf isn't just jokes - there is a plot and drama to it as well as humour - that's why we love it! Other issues (loss of Rimmer, non-Scottish Kachanski, etc) are irritating but the 'stranded in space' issue is absolutely fundamental and that is why Tikka to Ride ruined Red Dwarf.
To be fair I feel like the initial objective of the getting to earth and having the farm on Fiji etc. had kind of been forgotten by this stage anyway, and the premise was more just guys trapped together on a spaceship. I don't know if Tikka to Ride can be entirely blamed for that. It does seem jarring that Lister wouldn't want to just stay on earth though
@@MidnightChimey my wife and I are in the middle of rewatching the entire series and just started S3 last night.
In "Backwards" it is explained that the universe had expanded to its limit and was now contracting which is why everything was backwards on this planet.
They actually DID get back to their Earth in this episode, just 3million years in the future where time was now running backwards.
Thankski verski muchski budski!
@@LittleMAC78 That's true, although it makes more sense that Lister would not want to stay on that occasion as it is not exactly OUR earth.
There's a deleted scene where Lister addresses the fact that the time drive can't take them back till earth in their time, but they never say why
And, after the events of the episode, they know that travelling to earth in the past is too much of a risk
Red Dwarf is dead, Dave. Red Dwarf is _dead,_ Dave. Red Dwarf is _dead, Dave!_
Are you trying to tell me Red Dwarf is dead?
Honestly Series X is the point where it felt like Red Dwarf again. Because they went back to basics and ended the obsessions of constantly revamping the show.
YESSSSS!!!! Series X felt like an attempt to take it back to the good old days. Not quite up there with series 3,4,5,6 ... but some great episodes.
Tikka to ride for me was very underrated and the last truly good episode
While it is flawed I do also enjoy it
Someone once put this up with a laughing track added to it.
I swear it turns up a notch.
@@chip.chippa6416 There was never a laugh track added to Tikka to Ride. The original broadcast had a laugh track, as did all of series VII. There were 3 episodes which were released extended on VHS after the main series came out on home media, which had the laugh track removed.
Good point about fact that JFK shouldn’t be able to kill himself. Hasn’t thought of that.
It wouldn't bother me so much except that the episode makes quite a big deal out of how the cliffhanger is resolved
@@MidnightChimey - yeah, i liked the resolution taken by itself but the fact that it contravenes something established earlier the same episode is… annoying
You do realise it’s not a coincidence that they are both in the same episode? You guys must really struggle with Douglas Adams’ work.
@@myke1914 - I LOVE Adam’s work actually.
@@CulturePhilter then can’t you appreciate how self-depreciatingly Adams-like having the solution to the episode completely counter the “forget about it” series solution. It’s brilliant and only fans will have even noticed.
I don’t think you give Doug Naylor the credit he deserves, this guy is an incredible writer and has been doing a high standard for longer than I’ve been alive.
In comedy you have to write some misses to enable the hits to shine.
Personally I feel like Grant removing himself from the equation enabled Red Dwarf to take on more Adams-like qualities, it almost lost the sit of sitcom at that point. Growing up 7 and 8 were my favourite series but I was 8 at the time. Now I find myself drawn to 10 11 12. They seem like they’re having more fun playing the characters from 7 onwards. You can see the enjoyment on their faces.
7 and 8 weren’t all that good, but at least things got better in 10 11 and 12. And Promised Land was good too. We are also getting 3 more 30 min specials coming next year too.
Does make me wonder just how long the cast will be able to keep on doing it for, every time I think the show is wrapped up something else gets announced
@@MidnightChimey hey, I’m just glad to see more red dwarf. It’s been running since the late 80’s and I would love to see more
@@Twillek1019_ Oh yeah not complaining, will make an effort to watch it when it comes out
I actually liked Tikka To Ride quite a bit, more for the story and ambition than the jokes. And I've been quite enjoying season 10 so far. I don't think the later seasons are a complete write-off, but there is no question in my mind that the glory years were definitely the first six seasons when Grant and Naylor were writing together and that their combined talent was greater than the sum of it's parts.
I also find I enjoy Tikka to Ride when I do go back and watch it, for all the flaws I pointed out. Series 10 is pretty good too, but yeah I still say those were the best years
While I agree with the argument presented here, I still think the loss of Chris Barrie was the main factor behind series VII feeling so bad compared to the mid seasons. Without Rimmer, the gags just didn't land and became more and more cringe than funny. Kochanski in particular was more cringe than funny allot of the time. While season VIII was clearly past the shows prime, it was still way better than series VII and that was due to Chris Barrie being back.
I have only watched a few episodes post season 8 and I don't see it returning to anywhere close to it's glory days. The show has suffered from that age old problem of flanderization. Rimmer, Lister and Cat have suffered from it to a huge degree and Kryten isn't the same Kryten. He acts/thinks/behaves more like a human now and so comes across more silly than funny. I'll stick with seasons 3,4,5 and 6
Chris Barrie's absence from most of series 7 is definitely very much felt. I do think series 10 is genuinely very good, but other than that it's been hit and miss since series 6
Only thing cringe is people like you who don't know how to use the word cringe worthy, cringe is the verb, cringeworthy is the adjective, stop trying to be cool, you're not, and use the adjective properly.
Thank you for finally putting into words why I HATED season 7. There was the occasional decent joke but the addition of Kochanski just killed my enjoyment of the show.
And yes, my whole family loves Rimmer.
Most remembered line is still Rimmer “you’ve only got to LOOK at them! They’ve got less meat on them than a chicken McNugget!”
Classic moment!
They actually remove the "Mc" part of the audio in that line.
@@KasumiKenshirou If you listen closely he actually says Mg nugget. We had old VHS tapes of the OG airings and he does say it, just in a roundabout way. :P
Doug Naylor actually says that Rob Grant would reject idea, after idea, after idea, in pursuit of perfection. And boy does that show in those first six series. After the end of the partnership the dip in quality and humour was more than noticeable.
It's interesting to draw a parallel between Grant Naylor and Legion. Both much greater than the sum of their parts.
I totally get what you're saying, but ANYTHING Red Dwarf, I'll quite happily watch. There are good moments in ALL the episodes. I also quite liked series 10-13, and the Promised Land had me belly laughing all the way. I hope they NEVER stop making Red Dwarf!
I'm glad you still find a lot of enjoyment in it. For all the faults I still consider myself a fan and will definitely watch if and when we get more of it
I feel like Series 7 is when it became self-aware, and the characters started to "Flanderise". Yeah so one of the funny things is Lister love of curry, but it shouldn't be the driving force of an episode. Or Kryten's head exploding at the thought of ketchup on lobster. I'd be more inclined to put it down to the loss of Rob Grant than Chris Barrie.
Same, especially since the episodes which Chris Barrie is in suffer the same problems
You could have mentioned the longer running time; a 25 minute sitcom stretched to 40 minutes didn't have the material.
I always skip this season in rewatches, but very few episodes post 1-6 are worth it, Trojan perhaps...
I used to love Red Dwarf but when I watched the first episode of series 7 it put me off Red Dwarf for life. It was so bad that I just didn't feel the same about the series anymore. It was so badly written and unfunny, and the movie format completely sucked the essence out of the show. I haven't watched an episode since.
That says a lot of about how bad you found it if you didn't want to watch it at all any more. I do find some of the later episodes are an improvement honestly, particularly in series 10
Tbh, I quite liked series 7 and 8, not as good as previous, but it's undoubtedly red dwarf to me. I wouldn't say it's bad at all tbh.
There's no noticeable downfall in my opinion
Absolutely spot on, the show has not existed in my mind since then.
@@Stratoszero but why?
Waving a cliff-hanger away with technobabble is tight!
The problem I find with it is they made so many of the episodes heavy and depressing. It became a drama vs. a comedy. The other part is it seems like the show is eventually going to just stop as opposed to have an ending. The plot was supposed to be for Lister to get Kochanski who was portrayed as kind, having a playful personality, and so forth, get back to earth and live out his unusual fantasy life.
Season 7 changed her to someone who is moody, bitter, and not funny. At this point I really just wish they would wrap it up. I wish they would go to the plot point they had where he ends up married to the original version of her in the hotel like we saw in season 2. That should be the ending in my eyes. If we can bring back tarkin in Star Wars with CG, have the last episode bring us back to this point.
Eh the scene in the hotel was just a concept for one episode that served its comedic purpose. Red Dwarf has never been a show that has taken its own lore too seriously and I don't necessarily think it should. What you're describing is basically leaning into the drama as opposed to comedy like you were critiquing in the first paragraph.
@@MidnightChimey not if you do it right.
Series 6 is my favourite. I enjoyed 7 but being filmed on location, and not in front of a studio audience, felt weird. Series 8 had that classic Red Dwarf feel being but I like to just watch 'the boys from the dwarf' on their own and didn't get into the repopulated Red Dwarf thing.
It loses the claustrophobia of the earlier series and kind of doesn't really feel like the same show in series 8, though that's just the beginning of the issues with that series
There were other eps filmed largely on location well before then, Backwards being one example. And I remember people bitching about S3 feeling so different to S1 & S2.
I never understood the "picking on the chickens" joke either. When I watched the episode as a kid I thought it was some idiom I didn't know. I guess it was just a bad joke!
And yeah, series 7 was a real letdown for me. It felt so plodding, lacking all the tightness and solidity of previous seasons, and I found everything involving Kochanski to be utterly unfunny.
It's not even the fact it's a bad joke, it's the fact it seems so proud of itself, with Rimmer's remark, as if it was meant to be clever
Tikka to Ride is one of the best episodes of Red Dwarf and I rate the series as follows...
Series I
Series II
Series V
Series VI
Series VII
Series III
Series IV
Back to Earth
Series XII
Series XI
The Promised Land
Series X
Series VIII
For all its flaws I do enjoy Tikka to Ride
Loved Red Dwarf - but Season 7 was definitely the point I went off it. It just felt hollow and weak compared to what came before. Some of the later series have tried to recapture the old magic - not quite - but nice to see.
Series 10 came pretty close to me, even if it didn't quite capture the same tone, it's very good comedy
Me (a nobody) actually had a meeting in London with Ed Bye and one of the Grant/Naylors about a Red Dwarf script I'd sent them, prior to series 7. They never used it. Or even got back to me.
Wow!!! That's amazing! I also had a concept for an episode, but never thought to actually write it up and send it. Can you tell me a little about your episode idea?
@@boydegg It was almost 30 years ago so I can't remember much, but it involved a machine that could make things 1000x bigger, and Kryten got caught in it and they mistook him for a planet. I'll have to dig it out of my attic sometime, if I can even find it.
I did quite a long post about it bitd on alt.tv.reddwarf (or whatever it was called) on Usenet. I sometimes try and google it to see if I can find it again, but no success so far.
Kryten's point about humans being oddly averse to cannibalism is precisely on point. There is no logical reason not to eat people, but most societies have an ethical bias against it, with most of the exceptions throughout history being based on spiritual beliefs or grim necessity. Without his ethical (human written) programming to guide him Kryten concludes humanity is indeed simply picking on the chickens and other animals. Surely this is also the basis for most vegetarian ethics? It isn't fair (moral) to predate other animal species once you realise we have so much in common, especially if they are sentient.
My point is eating animals is not logically equivalent to eating your own species, sure you can argue why it shouldn't make a difference but the two things are not the same. The joke would have been far more on point if it were drawing attention to the fact there are certain species we are often far more adverse to eating, like our cuddly pet animals for instance. It's just not the triumphant satirical remark that Rimmer?? of all people seems to think it is
Honestly it strikes me as the kind of caricature argument people THINK vegetarians use when making fun of us
@@MidnightChimey Where is the logical fallacy, given they are both meat?
We don't tend to eat mammal carnivores not because they are cuddly (rabbits are cuddly, as are lambs) but because they tend to taste worse, compared to herbivores and omnivores. It was said that human flesh is very similar to pork.
@@MidnightChimey The justifications for vegetarianism seems to me to fall into three main camps. The traditional two are that vegetarianism is more healthy and morally correct and the latest is that it is ecologically/economically necessary.
If I'm wrong about the moral argument aspect (Usually stated as farming animals for food is cruel) then it could be I haven't really been paying attention for the last 40 years (I'm 66 and met the issue in my mid 20s through a girlfriend), but I'm not trying to belittle or caricature the argument.
I speak as an omnivore who likes eating chicken.
@@alanbeaumont4848 "where is the logical fallacy if they are both meat?" Well for one, you can't have a philosophical conversation with a chicken, teach a chicken to drive a car, or legally employ one in the workplace. They are not sentient in the same way that we are, we don't think of them as equivalent to humans in any other context. One is cannibalism and one is not. Again, yes you can argue (and I would agree) that shouldn't make a difference, but it's not the same.
I did enjoy Beyond A Joke for the Pride and Prejudice World sequence and how it was Bobby Llewellyn self-sabotaging an attempt to write himself out of an episode for the makeup only to end up pulling double duty .
Yeah that fact did end up being quite ironic
Something else that started in series 7 was the pandering to a US audience. I'm pleased when Britcoms do well in the States, and I love that RD has a good audience over there, but that doesn't mean you have to suck up to them like they did in Tikka to Ride. Having anti establishment anti authority Lister calling JFK 'sir' in such an obsequious way was bad enough, but Rimmer calling him 'a fine man'. Rimmer! This is the guy who referred to Jesus as a hippy. The only people Rimmer ever admired were war-mongers. In earlier series Rob and Doug would have revelled in having Rimmer say something totally tasteless and inappropriate about such a well-respected figure. The suckholing was just nauseating.
i hadn't really thought about it before, but yeah, unusual to hear Lister call anyone "sir" and it not be in a sarcastic tone
@@simonsimon325 Given what they ask JFK to do (assassinate himself) I think it was appropriate to treat him with respect. It gives the ending some dramatic weight.
As for pandering, Craig Charles mentioned in one of the commentary tracks that he felt the show tilted towards the American market from series 3 onwards. The pop culture and historical references were less British centric from that point onwards.
@@Isi-1975 Well, British audiences are more exposed to US pop culture than the other way around. So having US references is more universal. That's not my issue. It's the arse kissing. Look at Rimmer's attitude to Jesus and Ghandi. If they revel in having him treat such figures with disdain, why be so suckholy about JFK? Because they were scared of alienating their US audience, so they opted to abandon well-established characterisation in favour of pandering. A big part of Rimmer's character is how he admires awful people and says ignorant and offensive things about the admirable.
@@simonsimon325 I see your point, but in the context of the events of the episode they would be impressed by JFK. Had Rimmer been despising him it wouldn't have made much sense. Whether it's really right for Red Dwarf or Rimmer, there's obviously an intention to take a comedy drama angle instead of a sitcom angle. I think it works well even if it's pretty much a scatological episode of Quantum Leap.
That was a really good summary of exactly how I felt the first time I started watching season 7. Never quite knew how to structurally put it into words so eloquently like you have.
I'm confident that the weight was a bit too much to handle for Doug Naylor and it really shows even up to the most recent episode of 'The Promised Lands'. It just lacks that 'Red Dwarf' feel to it.
I still love seeing them on screen again but there is a very notable change which originated from the very first ep in Season 7.
Thanks, there have been good series after that, but it never felt quite the same
As a major Red Dwarf fan, I was so excited for a new series and finally an answer to that series 6 cliffhanger!
Tikka to Ride crushed my soul.
If you're expecting satisfactory resolutions to Red Dwarf cliffhangers you're going to be disappointed
@@MidnightChimey but this was an end of season cliffhanger that possibly saw the crew destroyed and then a 3 or 4 year wait to find out what happened.
@@boydegg With series 8 it ended up being a 10 year wait ...with no resolution whatsoever
@@MidnightChimey I have erased series 8 from my memory banks. Although I seem to remember one quite good episode ... Cassandra?
@@boydegg Cassandra is decent, the rest is... well I'd quite like to erase some of it from my memory banks let's say
Rob Grant leaving.
That was the end of the great Red Dwarf.
I was a huge fan in my teenage years, but I saw the special after series 6, and didn’t bother checking in after that. I guess it had a very specific style of comedy tied to the cast, and they didn’t manage to keep everything in balance when things changed.
Some of the later series are good, but something from those earlier series when Rob Grant was still around is never quite recaptured
For me Red Dwarf ended with Out of Time. It is the perfect ending to the show. Everything afterwards is an "alternate timeline" or a "reboot" essentially
I've heard a similar sentiment from a few people
Some good observations. For me, the big problem isn't the poor scripts, questionable plots, or tonal inconsistency. I don't even mind the absence of Rimmer and addition of Kochanski - I love having a female presence on the show and a bit of sex appeal. For me, the huge problem with season 7 is the completely different energy created by the lack of a live audience. That's the big one.
As gratifying as it is to see Red Dwarf with cinematic lighting, it simply doesn't work as a single-camera "drama". The energy isn't there. Even the greatest episodes such as "Back To Reality" immediately lose that sense of connection once they switch to pre-recorded scenes like the car park location. Red Dwarf is supposed to be a bunch of lads having a real hoot in front of an audience. Even the "movie" Promised Land was shot in front of an audience - and you can REALLY TELL.
You can definitely tell when the actors are feeding off the energy of the audience
The ending of this episode was the first Red Dwarf that I ever watched. It was weird enough to catch my interest and find out what the show was all about.
That's fair, for all its faults I enjoy this episode and if it got you interested in the series that's good
Its a great episode. Kryten with no morals or ethics feeding the crew human was the best scene 😂
If you enjoyed it great, but that joke doesn't make sense for me
Series 7 was bad & 8 was atrocious. It felt like Rob Grant was not there to keep a tight leash on Naylor & his obvious love of slapstick. I enjoyed Tikka & Cassandra from 7 & 8 but that's hard to commit too as they were still really cringe inducing at times.
I feel like especially during series 8 there were times when Naylor could have benefitted from a "leash" on him as you say
@@MidnightChimey Agreed. It was six series worth of playing it very straight & then it was suddenly slapstick. "Hand pick up the ball", "you're lying" & Rimmers absurd salute. It really did lose its way and has never fully recovered.
There are episodes in series 2 - 4 I can quote over 50% of, but from series 7 onwards I just... can't remember very much. There are some great individual episodes but the whole just doesn't flow. Nice video - hope for more
There are some great episodes in the post series 7 era but it never quite clicks in the same way as the early series. That said series 10 has some pretty memorable moments for me
I remember waiting what felt like forever for Tikka To Ride to air since the end of series 6. I was happy to see it come back, but just felt it lost something it never quite got back. I think you nailed why.
I never really felt it got back to, what was for me, the golden age of series 3-6 but I’ll support the boys from the Dwarf getting a pay cheque for as many series as they want.
However Back to Earth was pretty awful.
Obviously didn't watch it when it came out as I was only 1 year old but my first experience of watching series 7 was similar
Series 1-6 were brilliant, Series 7 without Chris Barrie ,the episodes with Kochanski was unfunny. It was great that Barrie came back for Series 8. Have not seen Series 9 to Promised Land but I will watch it. However Chris Barrie's absence definitely affected Series 7 and Kochanski near killed the franchise. There I said it.
It was never quite the same after series 6
The 1st 6 series are the absolutely best series of the show. Series 7 and 8 are definitely the weakest and every series after that has been hit or miss.
I would generally agree with that sentiment
I’ve been surprised recently at how many people have a position so against a few of these middle series’. I genuinely always loved the whole show. Suppose that’s a win for me. Just can’t quite work out if it’s people taking it too seriously, or me not taking it seriously enough 😂
Well, if you're enjoying it, that's what matters, don't worry too much what other people think
@@MidnightChimeyit’s not so much I worry about it. Probably more interested in why suddenly it was seen to be so appalling. If people were to say they were annoyed at Chris Barrie leaving to do something so silly as Brittas Empire then I’d agree lol. But, I don’t worry too much, just throwing it out there. Love all of dwarf and can calmly and happily watch any
Still better than the crap served up today..
Eh, The Promised Land was a pretty good laugh
Ah I dunno. I remember seeing our Rob or Ross as a wee nipper, recording it on VHS, as was the style at the time. It brings me back.
That's cool
Season 7 was different but there are some great episodes in it. Stoker me a Clipper and Epideme are just as funny as anything seen in previous seasons in my opinion. And for me, this in one of the most moving moments in the whole history of red dwarf: czcams.com/video/5qUmB0sUUSk/video.html
Nice. Though, models aside, Series VI wasn't filmed - it was recorded; as was series VII.
I think in one of the early season documentaries, Doug Naylor said that he doesn't care too much about continuity, the goal is to make the best and most funny show possible and worry about that later. It could be that Rob Grant helped keep him in check in some of his ideas.
I'm sure Rob Grant being there helped, though I generally don't take exception to that stance on continuity, especially in a comedy
@@MidnightChimey Like most things, it's only a problem when it takes you out of immersion of the story and you notice it so much, it detracts from the positives of what you are trying to do. I first watched this series when I was probably 16 years old (I'm a yank so I had to sometimes wait years for it to come out on DVD and they were SO expensive) so I will be honest, I didn't mind/notice any of these things as I was a much less discriminating viewer back then. Although I will say that the removal of Rimmer made the scenes with him in them that much more enjoyable (especially that kiss).
@@BillyMaurice I remember waiting for the series to come out on DVD after watching it on PBS for years. I remember getting really annoyed because I would search for "Red Dwarf DVD" and would find some unrelated fantasy movie called "The Red Dwarf".
@@KasumiKenshirou yeah we were in the same situation. Waiting for it to come on at 10pm on saturdays . me and my brother are big fans
Great points, all! I forgot about the lack of studio audience as well...
The story did have some ideas, even if the logic was flawed.
For me, series 2-5 are the sweet spot for story quality. 3-5 for that additional polish. 6 felt like the initial downward but still almost top-tier... without Grant for balance, 7 was a weird take - right with overdone drama and fumbled badly, 8 is a rebound back to comedy but overdoes it in the process... 9 existed as a celebration, but was watched by so many that a full new series was commissioned. 10 is the best since 6. 11 is solid. 12 is hit or miss. Promised Land is surprisingly good... 11 and 12 had weird lighting and color timing, rendering it a step down (relatively unlit and bluish).
It's really due to these actors and how they acted the material that made it work.
But wasn't continuity in Doctor Who always fast and loose?
@@ShamrockParticle Well Doctor is at least (mostly) consistent within individual series and stories continuity wise. But yeah series 3-5 is probably the sweet spot. I'd include series 6 but it is admittedly more formulaic with a greater reliance on recurring gags etc., reminds me a bit of Blackadder series 4 in that respect.
Typically whenever writers try and switch the genre of a show or franchise it seems to work out poorly. Seems like either too much or not enough effort is put into the scripts.
And in this case it was probably the wrong time to be switching things up
series 7 they were trying to make more cinematic while they were trying to get their Red Dwarf film green lit.
Indeed, I believe that is the motivation behind the changes
Its simple, Doug Naylor like George Lucas with Star Wars was annoyed his show didnt have the gloss hed wanted when he first made it, for George cos the technology wasnt available in 1977 but in Doug's case cos they didnt have the budget for it in 1988, so he put series 7 on film instead of studio cameras without realising that people liked red dwarf in the first place cos it wasnt some glossy American style film. So he went back to studio cameras in series 8 but series 8 became full of frat boy humour so the damage was done, then they got axed and then it was back to using film for Back to Reality which doesnt work cos again you cant just use film to upgrade what is still at its core a low budget studio sitcom. Then they started repeating themselves and now we are at the point where the guys are too old so tikka to ride itself has little to do with it, the series itself was kinda done after series 6.
Series 7 and Back to Earth being in the style of a film production without a studio audience just feels off and not like Red Dwarf
@@MidnightChimey I'm glad you agree NOT having the studio audience was a bad thing, usually these days there is an elitism from guys that so called "canned laughter" (which it isn't but people call it that) is annoying and somehow unnatural for the only genre where humans make auditory responses.
Ok, this is weird. This morning for some reason the scene where Kryton feeds the rest of crew human meat popped into my head. I hadn't thought about that in a long while. Here I am at the other end of the day and this video pops up. Does anyone else have things like that happen?
I've had the odd weird coincidence like that happen before
The show is a prime example of flogging a dead horse.
To be fair the show is still pretty funny
Speaking as an absolute Red Dwarf superfan of the first 6 seasons when they first aired: this episode's storyline, along with the removal of the classy AF model sequences for flashy new piss-poor CGI, signaled to me a shift in focus that seemed, to my 15yo mind, to be rather obviously and quite distastefully aiming to gain traction in an American market. It was the death knell of the British charm that made the whole show so amazing in the first place.
Those CGI shots don't even look good, the model sequences are far superior
@@MidnightChimey It was soul-crushing and jarring to see that change occur. Such a shame.
Hey I quite enjoyed series 7, not as good as previous series but undoubtedly red dwarf. I think the writters were just experimenting with new things, and that's pretty unique. Series 7 really isn't bad at all.
Glad that you enjoyed it. The trouble is for me it comes across less as experimentation and more as Doug Naylor still finding his feet
Nah, I like ALL Red Dwarf.
I mean I do too, really, although maybe with the exception of series 8 at times. Can still acknowledge its flaws though
No Rob Grant = bad Red Dwarf. Doug Nalyor doesn't know what he's doing AT ALL.
When and why do you think the decline of Red Dwarf started, if indeed you think there is a decline?
@Zarius Series 10 is my favourite of the post series 7 era too. Series 8 is a weird beast with all of the toilet humour and some "jokes" that are downright gross and offensive. I may cover that one at a later date actually
@@MidnightChimey I don't think there has been a decline - it has changed, and we haven't. The show has been going for almost 30 years, and we've gotten 30 years older - can't expect the same old material to continue being funny. I really enjoyed series 10 - 13, particularly The Promised Land which made me belly-laugh throughout. I'm more than thankful I still get to see more Red Dwarf, rather than dwell on what it once was (honestly, I think a lot of this is more about nostalgia, than it is not "being funny")
Let me give you an example: I first started watching Red Dwarf from series 3, and it took ME a long time before watching the first 2 series because THEY weren't the same without Kryten. Do you see what I'm getting at?
There is probably a lot of nostalgia in it for sure and even the "golden era" episodes had their flaws, no series is perfect, though I do see that as the best period of Red Dwarf nonetheless. That being said, series 10 was probably just as good, I really enjoyed that series
@Stefano Pavone I feel like series 8 especially only really appeals to a more juvenile sensibility
@@MidnightChimey can we all agree that 'series IX' is a monstrosity and should be nuked from orbit?
why are we looking at a railway
just put stars in the background
That would be too obvious
I like it
I'm going to be honest here, I used to watch Season 7 back in 2006 when I recorded the series on KTEH channel 54 cable 10 after recording the last 3 episodes of Season 6. I used to like it because it's Red Dwarf, but after watching clips of the earlier seasons on CZcams (back when CZcams was relatively new) and I started watching the series again in 2009 on KRCB channel 22, I started to dislike Season 7 more. Compared to the first 6 seasons (which I love the most), Season 7 does not hold up very well. Tikka to Ride and Stoke Me a Clipper were the only good episodes of Season 7.
There is some good stuff there, but it doesn't hold up to the earlier series
Maybe it wouldn't have actually worked, but since you bring up the movie, this episode more so than any of the others in series 7 does feel like a movie concept.
When I think of RD's decline I usually think of this episode as the last great one, but I haven't seen it in years, and thinking about it now, given Rimmer's upcoming departure, it's revealing that Lister behaves like Rimmer in this episode. Much like Rimmer's madness in the Bodyswap episode. It suggests that Naylor had to fix the problem of losing a character who is antagonistic and underhanded. Prior to this Lister is essentially 'good' and moralistic. This role reversal is ill fitting and maybe a bit cheap.
I'd never really thought of it as a role reversal before, but Lister's behaviour in the episode is admittedly pretty extreme, especially given that he is generally written as the straight character
I think series 7 was the beginning of the decline. There are a couple of good episodes but the style and format of the show dramatically changing didn't help.
But the real decline happened in series 8.
Series 8 somehow manages to be probably the worst series, despite the return to a live studio audience and more traditional style of filming
So dead, they are making a new series
I think everyone reads too much into every detail. Just enjoy each episode. Just think how all the fans of Gilligan's Island ruined that show for themselves by over analyzing every detail of every episode. Red dwarf is just a comedy sci fi tv show that needs to be watched and enjoyed!!
I mean, analysing media is part of how I enjoy it
I personally enjoyed tikka to ride. Epideme was pretty good too. Rest was poor, as was Kochanski
That's fair, I do find Tikka to Ride quite watchable, for it's faults
Mmmm.. I like all of the series' to be honest. Series 7 no less than the rest. Though I do actually have a favourite series. Which as it happens is series 8.
Regarding Kryten's 'picking on the chickens' line. I also found that line to be cumbersome in it's wording. The concept of what he was getting at, less so.
The point he's making I like to think, is that as humans we actually kill chickens to eat them. However stupid they may be. (and as a family we kept rescue battery chickens as pets for a few years. And trust me, they ARE phenomenally stupid.)
BUT Kryten didn't have to kill the man to enable the crew to eat him. He was already dead. Kryten was simply repurposing dead meat.
Well the way that was worded it came off much more as just "if you eat other animals than logically you must be cannibals..."
Downfall what are you talking about, all series have there best series and the longer they go, sometimes they are not as funny however you judge it too harsh.!!!
The title was deliberately somewhat melodramatic. I do still enjoy series 7, but that said, it is one of the weakest series
yes it got crap from here
Nope. You're smoking space veevil!
I bet you're fun at parties. Just take it for what it is. A funny, silly show.
Don't really get what your point is. I am reviewing it as a funny, silly show.
Tikka to Ride was the episode where the show became way more profound and meaningful imo
Red Dwarf is not as good as it use to be and has gone on for too long.
It's been going a very long time now
@@MidnightChimey Very? Almost 40 years.
Replacing Rimmer with the incredibly unfunny Kochanski constantly showing utter contempt of the lads at every opportunity just robbed the show of any entertainment for me.
Chris Barrie was definitely a loss to the show, for the brief period he was absent. I don't mind Kochanski but she is no Rimmer
Series 7 was where they began to pander to an American audience. 'Tikka to Ride' was far too reverential to JFK. Lister would not have been so respectful but, understanding that he was revered in America, they got Lister acting out of character. To Lister he would just be another corrupt politician but, understanding that to Americans JFK was borderline Royalty, they had Lister paying far too much respect. It screams out to me every time I watch it. Moving further into the series we see 'political correctness' evolving into 'woke'. The male characters all had deep flaws: Rimmer is bitter and a coward, Lister is a lazy slob, Cat is stupid and vain and Kryton is neurotic and submissive. Kochanski has no such flaws. The only 'flaws' they could write for her is that she had never been exposed to such incompetence. She was written as beautiful, sophisticated and competent. The only allowance was that there was the tiniest bit of insecurity. For example if the character 'Kochanski' were to appear in the episode 'Parallel Universe' how would she have been portrayed? She would have been a handsome, well adjusted, competent male. It just wouldn't work. The show always depicted people we knew/were. Once that stopped the show failed
You know series 7 came out in 1997 right? As I understood the whole discourse of things supposedly going "woke," whatever that even means, is a relatively recent thing. Kochanski is a bit of a blank character but I wouldn't say she is without personality flaws, she can behave just as neurotic as the others at times
Series 7 is probably the most well rounded RD series of them all; it has comedy, pathos, tragedy and digs deep into it's own lore with satisfying results.
Most people that don't like it are pissed that it's not the sitcom in space that they knew, but let's be honest, that would never have lasted anywhere near as long had it stuck to that format.
That, and the sight of a woman in RD just brings out the troglodyte in them.
You might have a point about Kochanski, though I do think fans would have swallowed it better if she wasn't replacing probably the best character in the show
@@MidnightChimey that's the fans own fault for not being able to seperate the two actions. SOMEONE had to fill a fourth spot, and Claire Grogan had none of the variety or depth of Annett.
@@MidnightChimey add to that, it's a slight on the other three if people are just tuning in for 'The Rimmer Show'. The others had really filled their roles out well since their respective introductions.
@@TroyConvers5000 It's not that any of the others are bad it's just that Chris Barrie is really the one carrying the show a lot of the time. As I said though, the problems of series 7 do go deeper than just the absence of Rimmer
Each to there own
Don't agree?
The retconning of using the time drive to travel in distance was an unforgivable piece of bad writing.
Eh, as I say. it didn't bother me too much, it's a different story with 4 years gap in between. It's interesting the different ways people consume the show though as I've received other comments that amount to "it's a comedy, stop thinking about it"
first 5. 6 seasons are superb then the woman joined them and it lost all its superbness... you may think its the writing but its mostly the fact that its npo longer boys lost in space, now its boyys and one girl lost in space... and she is never ever funny and ruins every scene she is in....
There was potential to create an amusing dynamic with Kochanski as a disruptive influence in series 7 but after that Doug Naylor just dumbed her down and made every joke into "lol she has boobs" which was not particularly funny or interesting
'then the woman joined'
YIKES. 😂