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Why the Jedha City Ambush Did So Much Damage to the Rebellion
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- čas přidán 19. 09. 2022
- Saw Gerrera's Partisans often times were successful on the battlefield, but the consequences of their actions usually created a lot of headaches for the wider rebellion. We take a look at why their repeated ambushes of Imperial forces on Jedha City caused more problems than they solved.
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One of Saws biggest failures was that he really didn't care about the civilians, he only really cared about fighting the empire, and when he did, he had tunnel vision, seeing only the enemy, not who was around them and himself, I belive if he had a death star he would happily blow up every single planet with an imperial stronghold on it, or at the very least "single reactor" which would still devestate the local area.
Extremists like Saw don't believe in "civilians", they see only us and them. If you aren't actively fighting against the Empire, you are a collaborator. At least, that's how it has usually been on Earth.
In the end, Leia managed to bring the remaining partisans into an agreement with the Alliance. She had the brains to fight the empire but the heart to win over the people. She WAS the perfect mix between both leaders.
Especially with powerful help like Kenobi, Luke, Chewie and Han an plenty others she depended on all of whom worked with her to do both too. Always kinda thought Mothma was the LEAST useful of them all. She basically was useless in the early an mid portions of the war.
But my d00d you can't make little Asian girls cry and not have that be damaging for your cause!
Just like Padme
@@joshuacorless1233 "The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree even if you shake it hard enough." - Mr. Perfect Cell
@@robertagu5533 also since we're talking legends...Galen/Starkiller
Saw Guerrerra to the Rebel Alliance disavowing him: "Why are you booing me? I'm right!"
I hope we get to see a list of Incompetent Rebels since the Rebel Alliance are not always successful in their fight against the Galactic Empire and had a lot of setbacks thanks to those individuals in their ranks.
I would expect Saw to be on that list. Because he clearly stood too long looking into the abyss and became the very thing he was hunting. I remember playing Fallen Order and even that that point when he still "cares" about others, he just leaves the Wookies behind at the factory to be butchered by the Imperials who come back to reclaim the wreckage.
It exists, I think
Perhaps it is because I fought in Iraq, but I felt the same way when watching the movie. A militant political fight affects all in the AO. All actions and reactions will have a severe effect on the future.
By the same note still not terrorism
No molotovs to schools because a neighborhood has an imperial flag. No victim operated ieds, no public execution of civilians who think wrong.
Its just an accurate portrayal of what a guerrilla war looks like without rose tinted glasses. Honestly i feel like this is what the rebellion was really like all over on the ground. Shits messy
Yeah, especially if the militants act like isis and the occupiers are basically russia on steroids. 😂💀
@@miniaturejayhawk8702 saws boys are not nearly anywhere close to isis
@@miniaturejayhawk8702"Russia on steroids" oh the irony (and hypocrisi)
A lot of fans like to say Rebels isn't all that great but damn if 8:50 isn't some really good voice acting
I like rebels but I think ot was rather mediocre. Probably because I am more used to the german version.
Jen and Mon were the only ones who committed to a missions of compassion and mercy during the Rouge One movie at least. I'm curious about new Andor series.
Cassian isn't immoral. He's just an adept infiltrator and operator. I'm not saying he doesn't do some shady things. He blows a man away because he can't escape (totally understandable--if he was captured he would have been interrogated and tortured, and then finally shown the mercy of a blaster to his head), and would have killed Jen's father had he not met her and seen the recording and become conflicted enough to debate his orders. Keep in mind he says during the movie that he has done horrible things in the service of the Rebellion and wants to do something good to atone.
When Kylo Ren saw the film Rouge One, even he was freaked out by Saw Gerrera…
I saw it in Kylo's reaction videos.
If possible I want you guys to do a video on why Leia was kicked out of the new republican government. I want to know why they couldn't get over the fact she was Vader's daughter. When she singlehandedly saved the galaxy with the other rebel leaders.
It’s quite simple. She is literally the daughter of space Hitler. If Hitler had any kids they’d probably be looked down on.
Vader killed a lot of people. Also plot
The rebels knew they couldn't win by playing the empire's rules.
Exactly. It was never a fair fight
@@neofulcrum5013 yeah, sorry for the late response.
You should take into account how much longer it took the empire to build the Death Star because of the partisans
The biggest bottleneck was technical, not sourcing strategic resources. Sourcing those crystals was a blip compared to making the super laser work. Hence why Galen Erso was so vital to the project.
Actually as I recall in the new lore, they strip-mined the entire planet of Ilum for Kyber Crystals. Probably where they got the majority of the crystals.
Fun fact: then the First Order turned it into Starkiller Base.
I've wondered what might've happened if the Partisans were deemed "too dangerous" and the Alliance took military action against them. How would citizens and Imperial officials view the conflict? Would they think the rebels are no better than drunks in a barfight since they can't even cooperate with themselves? Or would the Alliance be seen as an organization willing to step up and deal with their own "bad eggs"?
The empire would probably just wait out the conflict and crush whatever is left of both sides.
im back watching your videos
Fun fact: Fidel Castro made it a habit to give surrendering soldiers of Batista's forces medical aid and provisions before sending them home as well as letting the officers keep their side-arms. Why? Because most soldiers were just poor lads who signed up for two warm meals a day, a dry bed and a steady income. These were the sons, brothers, husbands and fathers of the very people he sought to liberate and nothing would harm his cause more than unnecessarily butchering them. This tactic was so succesful that not only hundreds if not thousands of soldiers switched sides but even the very officer who arrested him after the failed attack on Moncada barracks joined the rebel army.
While I agree the Partisans crossed lines they shouldn't have if you blame them for the fate of Jedda City then you have to blame the Rebel Alliance for the fate of Alderaan rather then blaming those who ordered and carried out the strikes on Jedda City and Alderaan.
Yeah thats a dumb argument you cant blame resistence for retaliation unless youre some cowardly "pacifist" whod rather yellow belly to anyone with a gun
True. More specifically, Tarkin.
He was so up his ass with his "rule through fear" mentality, that he probably would've blown up Jedha anyway, just to "send a message". Or more likely, just to test the Death Star's firepower and nothing more.
@@MrDibara exactly the empire is litteraly bombing whole planets holding villages hostage public executions etc. Litteraly ruling through fear.
And people are out here like "but saw attacked them IN A CITY snd and the empire blew it up! TERRORIST"
@@mondaysinsanity8193 _To be fair, I see where_ PART _of their argument is coming from,_ because Saw's actions and that os his Partisans aren't giving the Rebellion any good rep.
And the Rebellion NEEDS all the support it can get, but if it looks like the Rebels are no different from the Empire _(killing civilians, destroying homes, executing prisoners, being excessively violent, etc),_ then no one's gonna bother.
They'll think both sides are just more of the same and you lose no matter which one you join. Which is BAD, cause encouraging people to join the Rebellion *is* what helped keep it alive.
But I also agree, blaming Saw for the blowing up of Jedha is exaggerating it.
Maybe he could be held responsible if the Empire decided to send a full on army and search the entire city. Y'know, the kind of retaliation that could be excused by Saw's extreme violence.
_But blowing up the entire city like it was nothing?_ *Nah, G. That was all on Tarkin, he would've blown the whole place up extremists or not.* _I mean, the n&gg@ even blew up Scariff!_ SCARIFF! The research facility AND resort facility of the Empire! _Just to kill a batallion of Rebels and,_ *if we're being completely honest,* _to get rid of the competition._ (Director Krennic)
Biggest thing people gloss over when fighting wars is the people, winning wars does not only mean bloods and bodies but also hearts and minds, you get the locals support, they become less agitated when you're around, they may even cooperate with you against an enemy, this is why some insurgencies resort to forced recruitment and kidnappings to replenish their ranks if they don't have the support of the populous.
Ironically, Mon Mothma views Saw the same way the New Republic views Leia later on: a warmonger who will only do damage to their agenda. And both parties overlooked the one singular fact that might have saved a lot of lives: Saw/Leia was right. Saw had a pretty good idea that the Death Star was coming long before the Alliance did; he knew that negotiating with the Empire would never bear fruit, not when they were building a planet-killer weapon. He also called out the Alliance for not uniting and committing themselves to the war effort. Leia saw the First Order coming, and tried everything she could to weaken them and prove their threat to the NR. The warnings Saw and Leia brought were ignored. The price? Jehda, Alderaan, Galen Erso, Jyn Erso, Cassian Andor, Rogue One, Bail and Beha Organa, and later the New Republic itself. The message is clear: politicians do not do well in war, and when not prepared to wage a war to its full conclusion, can destroy far more than any "warmonger" can. "If you want peace, prepare for war." Mon Mothma was a lot of things, but she was NOT prepared for war.
I was not going to bring up Disney canon. The old EU was the same five years after the battle of Endor. The New Republic demilitarized even knowing there were imperial remnants left in the Galaxy, so when Thrawn shows up wrecks them ultimately.
@@ghr501able Indeed. People seem to forget that the NR was equally incompetent under Lucas' ownership, if not more so...Actually, knowing where it went with the Vong after, I'm going to say it was more incompetent. But that's a bit off-topic.
Leia is nothing like Saw. Saw is a crazed war criminal that just shoots everything in sight as long as it has an Imperial logo on it (and he doesn't care at all about collateral damage to civilians, despite claiming to be "fighting for the people"). Leia was a disavowed military leader that was competent but also didn't resort to committing war crimes just to gain slight tactical advantages. They are like night and day.
@@Spectacular_Insanity The New Republic openly labels Leia and the Resistance as extremists and war mongers. At least one senator compared her actions in the Galactic Civil War to Saw's. Leia may not be Saw, but the NR and many of its people saw her as Saw incarnate; an aging war vet who wanted the war to go on.
@@rippera45 Yeah, because the sequels' plot made zero sense and was written by morons. The fact that you're even using them as an example is hilarious.
I absolutely love your channel!
Mon Mothma was a political leader, Saw Guerrera was a military one. Saw Guerrera basically took over the role Garm Bel Iblis had in the original canon. Both Saw and Garm were way too extremist in their methodology and made enemies out of the general populace - the exact opposite thing that you need to successfully incite an open and general rebellion among the civilian population. Mon Mothma was an idealist, and sought to restore the old Republic, for better or worse, and her ideals drew a lot of support. Chandrila being a key Core World helped, though scrutiny from the Empire made that difficult after Mon Mothma had to evade arrest from the ISB and COMPNOR.
The Rebellion would have been a lot more stable in its early years if Saw hadn't let his indiscriminate hatred of the Empire blind him to plight of the civilian populace. He practiced ZERO rules of engagement and his laissez-faire attitude towards war crimes was, quite honestly, just as bad as the Empire (if not worse in some instances). His presence was a damaging one overall despite the small, minor victories he made against various imperial installations.
While Saw was certainly problematic, the high esteem of Mon Mothma in canon really bothers me. In Legends it made sense, she was cunning, pragmatic, a total badass. But in canon, particularly if you read the books, she’s a disaster. She constantly makes “good guy” decisions that fly in the face of logic and can only succeed with plot armor, and even with those undeserved protections the books pretty much acknowledge that the First Order is her fault. Canon Mon Mothma keeps the Legends reputation, when she should be impeached on grounds of gross incompetence
Add another "legends did it better" to the tally.
Disney really did her dirty. In Legends she was the glue keeping everything together in the early days, especially before the Mon Calamari joined and the Rebellion got an actual naval force worth the name. In Disney canon, she feels like none of her organizational skills matter. The fact that she was one of the only Senators to openly decry Imperial doctrine seems to also be glossed over. It took a lot of courage to publicly defy Emperor Palpatine, but she did it and nearly got arrested as a result.
It was so cool seeing old two tubes in episode 8 of andor
As much as it is pointed out, and the moral ambiguity, I would still side with the action of the Partisans.
Saw is an extremist, Mon Mothma isn’t. THE END
I literally just rewatched rogue one
The rebels just lashed out instead of winning hearts and minds, the Empire would clamp down harder and the public would blame the rebels. If the rebels acted like the Partisans, the public would throw themselves at the Empire’s feet for protection.
This is probably a minority opinion but Saw represented anarchy, which he saw as the only viable alternative to the empire. Considering that the new republic was almost instantly taken over by the fascist new order, you could argue he had a point or at least that he was never proven wrong
Wonder if the partisans would have been as successful, if the empire cleared out everyone and everything on the convoy route. Basically create a no civilian zone where every building on the route was empty. Similar to the DMZ area between north & south Korea.
And I wonder if something like that would have been practical.
Love ya tech
These videos are fantastic, great fuel for my SW RPG campaign
Violent resistance against fascism is based and correct
Can you do a show on how you would equip in the Star wars Galaxy your army from the ground up. Starting with the species the armor the basic troop equipment all the way up to your space stations. You can use any equipment from any factions and any time period
You have to show the people that you are fighting for them. When you have as much collateral damage as The Empire, you are no better.
Even worse they’re making the empire look good and giving them free reasons to justify themselves and paint all rebels as a whole as terrorists. The partisans are actually helping the empire far more than they are hurting it.
@@noahlonaker2668 very true. At that point you are actively undermining the whole movement. I honestly don't think Saw cared at that point though. His only true objective was to kill as many Imperials as possible.
Exactly
Fun fact, on the thumbnail the guy on the left is wearing a flash hood that real fire fighters use for protection.
Do a What If Count Dooku's experiments worked and General Grievous because Force sensitive video! That's be awesome.
Anyone else ever notice that greivous' ship in episode 3 breaks in half for seemingly no reason did I miss something after watching it a million times or is there another reason less obvious in the movies
It took a lot of damage when it was going back and forth with the republic cruiser. Just while flying it started to split slowly.
Plus the strain of reentry was probably too much between "coming in too hot" and the gravity well of Coruscant. Capital ships need significant, stable repulsor capacity to survive traveling in atmosphere, plus working inertial dampeners. None of those were still present in the _Invisible Hand_ , except the forward section containing the bridge. Inertia ultimately finished the job when Anakin went full reverse thrust. The front of the ship was still moving forward while the rear section had all but stopped--very suddenly, I might add. With an intact structure and working inertial dampeners, it might've worked, but the sudden deceleration was too much for a ship that size to handle with all the damage it sustained.
The partisans were a far more realistic portrayal than the Alliance of what you do if you are a largely irregular force fighting a conventional enemy many orders of magnitude greater than your own.
What were they going to do? Fight fair? They don't have any magical space wizards with plot armor for that to work.
Our own history has shown that extremist groups as leaders aren't so great
like Don Ramon used to say : "revenge is never good, kills the soul and poisons it" Saw got blinded by revenge over her sister's death.
This video would’ve gotten demonetized if we weren’t talking about star wars
Taliban veteran(s) be like: "U think that's good Saw? Ya methods are garbage 😂."
Now that would be calling the kettle black lol
@@neofulcrum5013 ?
@@neofulcrum5013 pretty sure the point was saw is no terrorist and actual terrorists do far far worse
@@neofulcrum5013 _Pretty sure the joke was supposed to be the Taliban criticizing Saw for "going too easy"._ 😑 _As in, _*_they would kill more civilians and strike more terror then he did._*
@@MrDibara yeah something like that.
Iam so happy to be first viewer ,
No kidding there generation films. The rebel alliance aren’t really made of a bunch of anti imperialist types out there. As well as glorified rebel heroes. But made of terrorists and anti empire radicals. Would’ve preferred to return to the corrupt galactic republic days
Oh, it's beautiful!
Can you please continue the separatist alliance vs earth series please
why is there a slight gap in the word analysis at 1:39
It's multi layered. You have to show you are fighting for the people, but also you have to show that you are fighting. Mon mothma is a poor choice for leadership of a rebellion as she was more interested in ensuring good public relations than taking the necessary risks that might take the rebellion to victory.
8:51 Mon Mothma Speaks against Putin...
Saw an then wasn't totally bad. They had their place. Collateral damage is to be expected in any form of warfare. HIS problem was getting carried away. Mothma was a politician NOT so much at all a military leader. The roles aren't even close to the same. His an other combat leader's jobs ISNT to be concerned with being nice to the enemy. His job where he messed up was him an his failing to guard against too many civilians getting caught in a crossfire AND especially drawing too much attention from the Empire an this making it a moot point. In many ways his job is harder an more or as important then Mothma's at least in the stage where Saw was alive it was. Being a good negotiator an people/being organizer means absolutely nothing early on to those that don't see you yet as a threat to the tyranical ruling regime. An if they lose anyways nothing any of them did woulda mattered.
Your being too easy on the Empire though Allen.. Leia tested that theory with her homeworld. Jedda was always probably doomed to wind up looking like Galactus took a big bite outta it for a snack as he passed by. The "Partisans" as a target excuse was WAY overkill.. a VERY strong assisted army coulda easily went in an cleared them out leaving an intact planet an city. Regardless of Saw's screw ups. They like doing things like that
Inusagi wasn’t even Gerreras op and the “victims” were collaborators and an imperial governor who was a personal friend of Palpatines seems he saved them from a hanging. And you can’t blame resistance fighters for reprisals for obvious reasons. And the patrol was a legitimate military target perfectly justifiable not to mention the fact it’s supporting the construction of a planet killing weapon not vital to the empire, why didn’t the empire leave or never show up in the first place?
Everything in the video is all standard resistance stuff being sensationalised
dude's a massive lib, what did you expect?
like he'd go on for weeks and weeks about ukraine but it's not like he's gonna ever mention palestine
Og is a bot
@@11geosno slava ukraini. heroyam slava
@@f-86zoomer37 i remember when i used to copy and paste things on the internet instead of using critical thinking
@@11geosno you’re a conservatard. Sit down. Go back to watching your neo nazi podcasts
The Partisans probably did more damage to the efforts of the early Alliance than the Empire could hope to achieve.
I have not ideal why everyone is calling the Jedha thing a battle. It was mining accident.
WERE The Dreamers wet?
This is what happens when you have terrorists plan battles. They don't care about collateral damage, and they don't care to clean up their own mess. At least the Rebellion proper tries to avoid civilian casualties while the Empire covers up any collateral damage they do.
These are not terrorists. Conducting an ambush on a military patrol is not terrorism. Its resistance. If this is terrorism taking out the deathstar is far far far worse. Its just using music score and camera angles etc. To imply a tone. Give the same cinematic treatment to anyother rebel op and itd be the same
Using fear isnt terrorism intentionally inducing terror in a civilian poppulation to further a political goal is.
@@mondaysinsanity8193 Their main point is to strike fear at the hearts of the local authorities. That classifies as terrorism. That, and unlike the Rebels who conduct a traditional war face-to-face, these yahoos attack then hide among the populace until their next strike.
@@mondaysinsanity8193 The Partisans induce terror in a civilian population with their tactics. That classifies them as terrorists.
@@HolyknightVader999 war induces terror in a civillian poppulation. Anything does. Thats not the point. Ive seen actual terrorists lol. Saws troops would be considered good guys.
Saw isnt targetting civilians hes targetting military(and doing an unrealistically good job at not making a mistake) they arent holding villagers hostage they arent forcing bombs padlocked on kid firebombing schools public executions.
Thats the empire.
Saw and his men are putting their everything to stopping that.
They had armor the vest place to hit armor is in a city restricted maneuver can hit them from high angle of attack and easy to slip away when it gets hot.
Thats just what a real war looks like its not clean and its annoying how much folk just completely ignore the low level of the rebellion and justvshows th officers giving speeches....as in propaganda.
And acting like that propaganda is reality. I get its fiction but said fiction clearly effects peoples ideas on such things in reality.
To be exact, why Saw and his sister started the war against the Separatists-backed government during the Clones Wars in the first place? I know, I know. Nobody likes military occupation. But that was never needed in the first place because a simple blockade will do just that.
I’ve always wondered what if Steela survived? How differently would the Partisans operate?
@@neofulcrum5013 I wanted to know that too.
@@neofulcrum5013 Steela would have ensured her brother Saw won't lose his way. She was his morality chain to keep him from doing aggressive crap.
Partisans cant just blokcade a planet. You need an actual fleet for that and not just a bunch of dudes with guns.
@@rexlumontad5644 True. Saw completely lost his way after her death and none of his men had the courage or moral compass to guide him back to a path that wasn't littered with collateral damage.
So basically it was space nazis vs space isis
Space Israel vs Space Hamas
This felt like a terrorist attack for the empire.
Bruh
At least the partisans actually stood up for something, where the rest of the rebels in all actuality only stood for themselves. Not for anyone or anything else.
This is why I’m team Chiss
Just a comment for
the algorithm
“Boogalie”
The Empire wasn’t brutal enough on its enemies.
It’s brutality is what created it’s enemies
@@neofulcrum5013 you cant be at war when all your enemies are dead tho.
The empire literally blowed up planets of their enemies
@@neofulcrum5013 Major Ordnungspolizei vibes
The partisans where based
🙂❤️
Thanks for making this video, it's a great subject, but I think you have it completely wrong.
Firstly, don't blame partisans for destruction of Jedha or Imperial reprisals: yes the act of rebellion results in disproportionate and cruel responses from Empire, which they do intentionally (Tarkin doctrine), but partisans cannot be morally responsible for that - after all that cruelty is exactly what partisans are laying down their lives to stop.
Do you blame Bail Organa for the destruction of Alderaan? Of course not - but the Empire wants you to. Empire wants people to be so afraid of reprisals that they snitch or sabotage the rebellion. This is classic fascist playbook. You don't win asymmetric warfare by playing into your enemy's tactics.
Leaving cover under heavy fire to save a civilian is a nice and kind thing to do, but tactically extremely short sighted and naive. Who will save the civilians after your team dies heroically, and when there is no-one left to fight the Empire.
Saw is also fighting civilian complacency and Imperial propaganda which says rebellion is impossible and futile. When there are smoking remains of Imperial tanks in your merchant quarter this propaganda is proven false. It shows the rebellion isn't just some secret cabal of rich Senators, it's happening on your main street and you need to pick a side.
Partisan tactics is a challenging and interesting discussion. But without Saw the death star would have completed long ago, the plans would never have gotten out, and the rebel council would be busy debating whether it's a bad look to invite the Techno Union to the next Senate Election fundraiser.
When I first watched Rogue One in theatres, I did not like Saw Gerrera. I thought he was very delusional and insane. Watching this video makes me hate him even more.
I don't blame Saw for not cooperating with Mon Mothma. If some politic spoke to me the she did from the rebels clip at the end of this vid, I would tell her to shove it.
The dolphin empire would never allow such a thing to happen
Slava Ukrani!
Saw and his faction want to force people into doing what they want and living how they want everyone to live. Disagreeing with them gets you a terrorist attack delivered to your family. They are, quite literally, worse than the Empire. Even at its worst, the Empire did allow a little criticism or at least some disagreement so long as you still toed the line in action. Saw’s faction doesn’t even allow merely disagreeing with them or agreeing with the Empire.
The scene in "Rogue One" when the child is screaming in the middle of the battle, etc., to me is the worst scene of the film, possibly even in all of Star Wars films period. The scene is beyond cliche cringe. I can't even watch the scene because of how horrifically bad it is. The scene is absolutely unnecessary and seemingly done just to throw in the cliche situation that had been done countless times before throughout film history, including Disney's "Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl." I mean really, what are the parents of these kids doing? I understand it was an ambush and all but really, why is there a kid suddenly alone screaming in the street? In "Pirates" the ambush happens late at night. That kid should've been home in bed. As for "Rogue One," the kid's mother isn't too far away from the kid, yet it's Jyn Erso who risks her life to save the kid. What the hell was that kid's mother doing? How'd she lose her child only 10 feet away in the first place? Sadly, considering what happens to Jedha City/planet after the fact likely nullifies Jyn's rescue anyway.