Building An Oxalic Acid Gas Vap (Vaporizer)
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- čas přidán 12. 12. 2020
- Learn how to build an oxalic acid gas vap (vaporizer) to treat varroa mites. This device was a bit of a challenge for me to figure out but now I have a working vaporizer I can take anywhere without the use of electric.
Disclaimer: There is some speculation that over heating oxalic acids can turn the gases into formic acid which can harm the bees. My observation is that the gas has evaporated before it over heats and becomes harmful to the bees.
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Another Great Bee Video, Jason! Thank You for sharing all of your hard work researching this and making it work. Keep them coming!
What a genius idea! I love watching creative people who can analyze a situation and logically solve it. Not that I'll ever need an oxalic acid vaporizer, LOL, but just admire folks who can see what needs to be done and work it out--reminds me of my Dad, who could design and build almost anything. Well done, Jason!
Awesome video Jason as always. lol Ladybug loves her daddy. I know the warmer weather is going to allow me to get more ready and done for march. looking to get a video on my makeshift bee box dipper, and first hives better built than I thought I would have. Will do some videos later this coming week on what supplies I have to start with, and what all is needing done. Great job Jason keep em coming I always learn a lot from each one.
Great job Jason you convinced me I’m using one right now very time consuming I’m going to go to the gas valve keep up the good work
💨🐝 Thanks for sharing friend! It's nice and cold here in Iowa with snow❄❄
Great video jason and very helpful! The gas one will be the best choice for me i think. Since you said its just as cheap to buy one i will probably go that route. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and time
Thanks Jason, great video (as always), appreciate you sharing this info! Greetings from Oregon - Peter
Great info, thank you Jason.
An excellent video Jason thanks for sharing, full of very useful information. Have a great Christmas and New Year.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Happy Holidays to you too!
Woohoo! Been waiting for this one. Good job Jason!
Sorry it took me so long to get the video up!
Nice job Jason I made almost the same thing but I used inch and a half copper cap and a shot piece of pipe as the outside container for the burn chamber
Very nice work!
Great post.. thank you for sharing your knowledge
I have one on order. Can't wait to get it
Thank you Jason is that simple.
The safety glasses are when the glass table shatters as the vap heats up one small area. 😁Great idea on the gas vap. Kudos.
😂 Good point! Glad it didn't shatter. That would have been hard to explain to the wife. lol
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
Glad I could help!
Excellent instruction and advice. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Good move, Jason!
Nice video. I bought one of the gas vaps from Weller Bee Supply in Ohio. I did not have time or resources to make my own. I really like it. When I drill my hole in my bottom box I put a piece of tape over it. Then the bees don't seem to glue it shut. I like your idea of the golf tees too. Maybe I'll try that as well.
Thanks! I seen Weller's vap online but when I looked they were way behind on orders. I used to use tape too but the gold tees work much better.
Great idea Jason ,greetings from the great white north of British Columbia Canada
Great video thanks!!
This is a good idea. I'd prefer that burning chamber and exhausting nozzle to be larger. I'd like some more vapor exhausting pressure coming out. Thanks for sharing.
I love the way you guys keep bees and always learn from your videos! I hope you will make more and more videos every day! thank you!
Great idea Jason ,I would buy one 👍. Yuk I remember the mud well when I had cattle 😂😂lost my wellie boots loads of times .
@@sinisterhipp0 thanks for the info 👍
I'm watching this video on February 14, 2021, and in Central Oklahoma today it's currently 9 degrees with blowing snow and potentially record setting low temperatures. We had the same long range forecast........;-)
Vaporizing Oxalic acid at a high temperature produces mainly CO2 and water vapor and a trace amount of Formic acid. It's easy to see that doing so would not hurt the bees at all but it also won't hurt the mites.
I was watching this last night and you lost me at "braze" LOL ....I'm very handy and tech savvy, but when it comes to soldering, welding or brazing...I'm all thumbs.
It's a nifty setup.....but TBH I have the Johnny O vap and a small sportman 1000w inverter generator and it works well for my outyards. No complaints...plus many other uses for my generator.
That is a handy little device though....perfect for someone with a few hives. Neat project. Thanks for sharing.
@Kevin McMahon - Bear Creek Honey I started this project with the goal building the whole unit without soldering/brazing but that failed. I know several people either don't have the equipment to solder/braze so I wanted to try and be helpful to them but that didn't work. lol Goals are good but we don't always met them I guess.
I bought a power invertor early this season for my homemade pro vap and it works great but I still hate the hassle of needing a cord and my truck. It's like comparing a LAN line and a cell phone, day and night difference with portability.
Man you are a genius. I see dollar signs pouring out of that . (YOU CAN MAKE LOTS OF MONEY WITH THAT) Apply for a patten right away .Thanks for sharing and take care. Awesome video Jason.
Thanks. I still haven't decided if I want to sell them or not. Got a lot on my plate now. lol
Super cool, I'm in the process of building one for myself! Hopefully the scoop is a gram of OA, that'd be too handy.
Good luck!
Thanks for the video, very helpful. Did you ever consider a thermal box treatment? Since OA vapor only kills phoretic mites, thermal treatment might be a "cleaner" option, without any chemicals. Although, it is more labor intensive...
Awesome work, I will be building one of these...
Go for it!
bro your awsome man good job
This is great! Do you have a parts list needed to build this?
This will be so much handier than lugging a battery around.
Very clever, Jason. Awesome job! Question: What do you think about delivering oxalic acid with an insect fogger? Pros? Cons? Thanks!
Thank you Jason for nice educational video,
Idea is good ,but it still needs improvement. I did build one 5 years ago, but double boiler has to beseparated due to the fact that you supplying carbon monoxaid ( CO ) to the bees and that's NO-NO.
I use food pump for bicycle or air matress and kick 2-3 times and fumes are are coming very nice from
inner system separated from outer ( propane exaust). Years ago I have killed 4 of my nicest hive by
supplying in September (evening ).Maybe outside was to warm or I used not separated system like yours.
YOU DOING GOOD JOB. GREATINGS FROM COLD CANADA
Big thumbs up. How about building one for us to follow. This sure beats carrying the battery around. Looks quicker too. I don't have to wait for the wand to cool
Glad you enjoyed the video. Sorry but I am probably not going to be building them to sell. I do think I gave all the information one would need to make their own if they can braze.
@@JCsBees Yep, great job on the build and I just finished one made with 100% copper , all brazed and just per your photos . Tested it today and will make a couple more for our bee club!!
Where did you get the butane torch. Thanks for all the great info you share.
You can get them online or Rural King. I got mine from Rural King in the camping section. I bought 4 of them too just so I have back ups.
Good morning , I'm Edgar beekeeper in Brasil !
Good job .
Good morning, Edgar! Thanks for stopping by.
thanks.. looks good idea.Save time to me!!
top prize.............thanks
Well I'm a little late but this is really handy, thanks :)
Great Video. Do I see a tiny hold in the top cap ? and why? Claus from Denmark
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Thanks Jason, that's very interesting, I'm a hobby bee keeper, currently using an insect fogger to treat my bees. Your gas powered sublimator is more efficient.
Any chance of a drawing?
Happy Christmas from County Durham in the UK.
Stuart
Good Morning Jason....I was sitting here waiting on your latest....I did not realize that the required amount of Oxalic Acid to use was that small amount....good to know....
Morning, Ed! To get the best measurement a small scale can be handy. Thanks for watching!
Great vid. What respirator do you recommend?
the guy on the "re-hive beekeeping" channel has a much more simple design, not sure which one works best though
You could draw up the unit and sell the prints? I would buy a set.
❤ thank you for this video. how long do you leave it in the hive? trial and error as to how long the vapor takes to be released? also do you block the entrance for a bit after you treat? and can you drop the hole in the back of the bottom board rather than the lower brood box? I'm thinking a frame can obstruct the vapor from getting into the hive?
i have 15 hives and an looking for a better, more efficient way to treat them this fall rather than the entrance wand i used last year! it took me most of a day to do 8 hives.
i just treated with formic pro just over 3 weeks ago and there still seems to be too many mites...i used screened bottom boards in 6 of my hives this year.
thank you again.
That good
rained last nite sunny day today.
i have 3 5gal buckets of those copper fittings
Do you think if the output nozzle was lower and closer to the flame it would remain hotter and not clog as easily?
You mentioned brazing the fittings together...which is different from soldering.. Would the heat from the torch be able to melt solder when it gets to temperature?
I did make the 1 with shield. Had same problem not enough air. Separating mite be the trick!
Hey Jason, I'm a little late watching the video, you may want to check out Greg Judy on CZcams regarding wet pastures. He uses a fourwheeler and a hay unroller to apply hay to wet pastures. He has many great techniques on pasture building and fencing, he also makes the hay unroller. I believe he has a video showing how to make one as well, hope this helps with the soggy pastures.
Hey Andy, Glad to hear you follow Greg. I've been a follower for 10 years now. Pretty much since I took on running some leased land with cattle for another person. I knew nothing about cattle or being grass fed so I turned to CZcams and found Greg and Joel Salatin. They both taught me a ton about working with the land.
I have a farm channel you should check it out czcams.com/channels/Q9TVclPCb6mDm4Ve2jLiGQ.html
@@JCsBees Thank you I will check it out. I follow both of them as well, lol. Enjoy your videos, I've watched for several years now, you put out great content. Take care.
What temperature do you figure the OA burns off at? I wonder if it’s close to its sweet spot (170-180 degrees Celsius) because it condensed so easily at the applicator tip.
I wonder what the cost of fuel would be calculated per hive on fuel ?
@a Canadian Beekeeper's Blog First, I should explain I rushed to get the footage of it vaping and should have let it heat up longer, that's why it condensed on the tip. That said, I do think it's right in the sweet spot that the OA burns off. It works very well if you allow to heat up properly.
As for the fuel, I haven't used enough for sure to know exact numbers but I have treated roughly 20 nucs three different times all from one can of butane. But I have also fond cheap cans of butane don't last as long. I like the Zippo brand, it goes a long ways.
If you get an infrared temperature thermometer and shot the tube until temp gets to 420 F do the cap thing it will sublimate completely in 10-15 seconds and you will really have a decent procedure.
instablaster...
i would like to upgrade my gas vap with a temperature control. Which kind of sensor is required to have a reading during the threatment?
👍👍👍👍👍👍Супер!
Great video! I am going to try and make one myself. Out of interest how did you fixed the copper pieces together? Did you solder with soldering iron?
They have to be brazed together, solder will not holdup.
@@JCsBees Thought so. Thanks for confirming. Keep up the good work.
Jason, I have been using a GasVap that I purchased and I Love it. I think that yours actually might work better than the original. I often have my torch lose flame (I even opted for the upgraded torch that they sell). Your design stays lit like a champ! Nice work. I see in the instructions that they mention letting cool between hive applications. Not sure why they say that. It just seems like your wasting heat energy if you wait for it to cool. If you have good gloves, cap swapping while still hot should use a lot less butane. Can you break the brazed joints if you apply heat for too long? What are your thoughts?
@Ben Cote Curious who's version of the Gas Vap you purchased? I know of 3 different suppliers making them and each is a little different.
Yes, I think the cooling step is so brazing joints are not broke. That said, I have done 3-4 in a row with no issues but my brazing is pretty heavy. lol
@@JCsBees I bought from gas-vap.com. that web sit sends you to a mom&pop store (bridge-cottage). I assumed they invented the thing but I may be mistaken. In any case, yours is awesome. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of yours if you went into production.
It doesn’t seem any where close the the electric ones as far as heating up and vaporizing. It is a neat idea and maybe will even have a spot in my apiary. I have a small inverter hooked to my truck, I move my bees to different fields, however if you have them set up in one location I would wire up some outlets near my hives even if I do run from a battery/inverter so one isn’t always tangled in cords
I should have let it heat up longer than I did for the example in video. I was afraid it would start raining and I wouldn't get to finish the video. Over the summer I bought me an inverter too. I was looking for an easier way to use my pro vap then found the gas vap.
Now I have an arts and crafts project for the winter.
If you have half a clue it will take 30 minutes. What are you going to do with the rest of the time?
@@trevor311264 Whiskey, coke, and hookers.
@@SgtMantis and the rest of the time is just wasted.
I would buy one of those from you.
Have you tried any OA vapors with a polystyrene hive? I’m interested to see other ideas on how to avoid melting the hive parts.
@Neil Melluish I have no problem using one I built, you have to make an extension tube for the outlet pipe. If the device is properly heated the vapour will mostly go into the box. As you can't really overdose the vapours unless you go mad you just make an allowance for the extended pipe.
@Kyle Daugherty I agree with Trevor, you need an extension tube or wrap a rag around the tip of vaporizer and treat through the entrance. The rag will prevent the heat from melting hive. Of course there is a huge difference in heat from my gas vap to a provap too.
Why do not use Thermal fogger Burgess Propane(16443652N).I have over 2000 hives on Migratory 4 ways pallets.We use this kind of fogger.Some are electric 110V ,some on propane.We dissolve the OA in alcohol or mineral oil .Very quik ...15 seconds per colony.
Any thought to chemical reactions with OA and the copper? Would suck to be blowing some nasty chemical along with the OA vapor.
@Matthew B I see your point but most all the good oxalic acid vaporizers use cooper tubing. That said, I guess I figured someone has already tested that but I could be wrong.
🐝😎👍
mines very similar,but no 45,mines straight, then a t,the bottom of the t has a brass plug brazed,for the bowl (,i see you used a cap)i figured the thicker brass hollow plug would retain heat better. ,i cut slits instead of flanges,,for the flame to breathe,,my brass tube also now brazed, so at first, it wasnt brazed and leaked,and sputtered,but im feeling better about brazing myself now
Glad you got one built. It's a real time and hassle saver compare to other vaporizers.
@@JCsBees i did buy a easy vap from johno,which is lucky since hes backed up on orders,ive got a little more brazing to finish mine ,be sure to wear mask 60923 3m pink yellow, im sure you know this,i ended up with a full face mask, that acid is nasty,shower afterwards,my initial tests ,produced alot of dribbly moisture,and gas vapor, and solder wouldn't work,brazing to seal up joints is better,merry Christmas, keep the videos comin
im finally brazing copper to make a torch vap,ran outa oxygen to braze. so off to the depot for more,but i think im on track
For those reading this and who don't have an Oxy-Acetylene set-up you can braize using a MAPP+ torch and a lower melting point rod, like Harris Phoson and a flux powder to improve the flow.
@@trevor311264 whos harris phozon? my kit is map gas ,and oxygen with copper brass brazing rods ,has flux on the filler rod, maybe share a link for the rod you mention
@@sonofthunder. Harris is the manufacturer and Phoson is the rod type. It contains silver so is quite hard. If you search for Harris Phoson you will find it.
@@trevor311264 harris is manufacture and has phosphorus, ok got ya,yeah ive been experimenting,with what the torch kit came with,...so far the white ,the bare,work,the blue may need more heat,i do have some hobart powder flux,im totally new to brazing
Can you provide link to your lighter which fits in the 3/4 pipe?
Here ya go amzn.to/3a9Pody . I also added link in video description.
Jason where can I buy this gasvape? I also see one called Easyvape torch. But can’t find either for sale? Help?
Hey Brad, To be honest I am not sure where it can be purchased. For a few years they were everywhere but over the last year or so there is less people making them. Sorry I can't be more help!
Do you have to let the gas vaporizer cool down between treatments or can you just keep going from hive to hive?
No. I have treated one after the other with on issue as long as the fittings are brazed and not soldered.
Awesome, should sell . I’d buy one.
I would buy one also
Grazie per la spiegazione , ma è possibile avere la traduzione in italiano?
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
If you have the kit to braze, why did you not just braze the copper street elbow onto the steel tube?
When I started this build I was trying to do it without brazing, that the reason the elbow is not brazed on.
@@JCsBees yep, it is always easier with hindsight!
DO you sell any of these?
i would like to upgrade my gas vap with a temperature control. Which kind of sensor is required to have a reading during the threatment?
@JB S I would recommend a vaporizer from lorobbees.com/products/lorob-bees-oxalic-acid-vaporizer. I have one and love it. If you would rather build your own you would need something like this www.amazon.com/shop/jcshoneybees?listId=7A8YVLXR118X
@@JCsBees oh my gosh, this is great info. I’ll definitely be buying these parts and building it out. Thank you so much for organizing this list from amazon. Curious if you like the electric one you bought (linked above) compared to the gas one you built?
I am a central ohio beekeeper new to OA vapping. how many times do you do that a year on average? Last application was 11-28-2020
@dave newcomer Where in central Ohio are you? I am on the Knox/ Licking county line. I don't vap my bees as much as some because I use other methods to control mites. For instance, In the spring I make lot of splits that break the brood cycle and drops the mite count. I also practice the dribble method in the spring when I make splits. I don't start vaporizing until August.
@@JCsBees i live in Delaware County north of Columbus. I figured you would give the bees another treatment in February before brood rearing takes off? I split my bees in early May and again in July. Instead of dribble I use OA on shop towels in August for extended control.
Do you have a diagram and parts list to make this unit?
@Jennifer Mills I do not have a diagram and parts list. I truly think all the details were mentioned in this video though so if you follow it closely you should be able to figure it out. After all, I was able to figure it out from a picture. The torch I used is listed in videos description. Good luck and Merry Christmas!
Did you ever make any for sale?
No.
I'm a 12 hive backyard bee keeper that would be interested in one of your vaporizers, if you have any for sale let me know. I'm now using a insect fogger , the pump is plastic and goes bad after the 3 or 4the I use it, NEEDING HELP..
I am not selling them but this guy is bridge-cottage.com/store
My understanding is that temperature control of the vaporizer is important.
You are correct! Some say if you over heat the acid it becomes harmful to bees but I truly believe the acid is vaporized before that happens.
@@JCsBees my understanding is that a vaporizer that is too hot will cause the oxalic acid to decompose rather than sublimate ..resulting in less effective treatment
@@jtelander i would like to upgrade my gas vap with a temperature control. Which kind of sensor is required to have a reading during the threatment?
@@ukrainegermanysingforukrai5888 I use a Johnos Easy Vap which has a temp controller czcams.com/video/dKThMojX8HE/video.html
Is it really necessary to preheat the vaporizer before adding the acid? What if you put the acid in cold and then heated it?
It is definitely necessary to preheat. I preheat mine until when I touch my wet finger, it sizzles at the tip of the nozzle. if you do not preheat, the acid will vaporize in the chamber and then condense and clogged up in the nozzle.
preheating is the right way to do it because if not the smoke looks likes in the video. Less and slow. With preheating a big cloud is done in some 15s. than you know that all bees are treated. I preheat in winter with another torch the Acid chamber and nozzel to speed up the process.
Hi Jason, the only problem with using gas is you have no idea what temperature you're at and could run to the oxalic acid useless if it gets too hot
Yes, I have heard this but the proof that it works is laying on the bottom board after a treatment. No harm here and very effective.
i would like to upgrade my gas vap with a temperature control. Which kind of sensor is required to have a reading during the threatment?
@@ukrainegermanysingforukrai5888 I don't think its possible to configure some kind of temperature control for this type of setup to keep it small and portable. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't use gas due to the lack of heating control. If you overheat OA it becomes inert and not effective in killing mites. Will it work yes but at what % kill who knows I guess someone needs to do some testing lol not me however ?
Anyone have the name of the gas one others are making?
Just Google "OA Gas vap" and you will find them.
How many hives per cartridge?.
You have to measure out the OA for each colony. Each dose does 1 colony.
What was the cost to make that
Less than $30 in parts
@@JCsBees is that the butane torch too👍
my gas vap fell apart after 3-time use
Pokaż jak to robisz od początku.
Would you sell them ? I am interested.
@Anne Niles I really don't have time to make them to sell. If you Google "Oxalic Acid Gas Vap" some the the people selling them will pop up.
OMG....
Do I detect a hint of whining about mud?!! On a farm?!!! In the middle of winter?!!! LOL 😆 just messing with you!
Yeah...pretty damn warm over here in WA state too. I actually put out 10 pounds of sugar and did some open feeding the other day. I'm just waiting for the hammer to drop and you know it is. Let's see what March turns out to be like.
Yes, I was going a little whining! lol The mud just makes everything harder to do. Sadly though I should be getting used it after that last 3-4 of it. Best of luck with your bees!
can you send me a gas-vap? please! I live in Vietnam!
Hey there. I’d love to get one of my units in your hands. You have done a lot for me and I would like to hook you up with one of my vaporizers as I think you are more than deserving please let me know if you are interested. You can preview it at lorobbees.com
@Lorob Bees Hello, I watched your video on your site. Very nice units. Shoot me an email at honeycomb_hill@yahoo.com
@@JCsBees Emailed you this AM, if you haven't received it please let me know.
Painful watching this.
Why?
I normally like your videos but this time you’re taking revenue away from a very good small company, and the Gas Vap is not that expensive in my opinion you wasted a lot of time, but then again you mentioned that.
I understand your concerns but really not too many will actually attempt to build one. You'd be surprised how many people need cleared instructions to put one of these together. Sure there will be a few who give it a try but not all will succeed. I did mention it being a waste of time but I did learn something in the process so I would say I can out ahead of the task.
@@JCsBees Just want to say Jason , keep doing what you are doing. We build EVERYTHING we can here for our 50+ hive apiaries and I know a lot of beeks that appreciate more info that could make our endeavors more economical.