I endorse husband-leaders, but there is a danger in it.
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 08. 2022
- It seems to me that a balanced, biblical view will affirm both the role of the husband as having higher authority in the household and his responsibility to utilize that authority for self-sacrificial service. Any teaching that doesn't emphasize both of these aspects seems to be unbiblical.
My video on "How to Be a Husband" • "How To Be A Husband" ...
My website BibleThinker.org
Too many expect the benefits of being in headship, while still putting themselves and their passions first, so they get resentment in return.
What are the benefits of Headship?... 1st to die, 1st to sacrifice, laying down, increased pressure, increased responsibility, making hard life changing decisions when necessary, etc, etc... Curious as to what the benefits of "Headship" are?
I can say the benefits of your wife's submission is that your Headship isn't hindered by her Genesis 3:16 nature as a result of the fall.
This sounds like a dictator, tyrant rather than a leader. Someone who says serve me rather than God.
@@jaradlastie6771 The benefit of the headship is to experience what true love, Christ-like love means (it is sacrificial), and by that God. Women have that experience with children when they become mothers.
@@jaradlastie6771 you experience love as Christ did for his bride. That's the benefit.
@@jaradlastie6771 It's odd that you don't view yourself as having that same nature, when the text all throughout says you does, and depicts males, especially in leadership, expressing it through and through.
As a young man I saw many abuses of leadership in the household. Now that I live on my own with a soon to be wife I’m thankful for the teachings and clarity you bring to such an important subject.
Break those generational curses, God bless you brother❤️🫶🏻
@Rick Danger By that statement alone you assume that there’s no need for speakers such as he. He’s a pastor, the Bible, which I do read, speaks clearly on the importance of those above us who teach. Ofc as 1 Timothy states the word is to be tested and so we must test what others preach before us and it’s clear to me that Pastor Winger does an exceptional job at what he does for the glory of Christ. He has a ministry that’s supported by those who believe in it. If you yourself don’t believe in it don’t bother listening, but be careful of the accusations you make especially when you don’t know the man personally. That’s unbiblical.
Watch out, this video is soft feminist. There are others out there like Toby Sumpter and Joel Webbon and Brian Sauve who teach what the Bible says about a husband's leadership.
This possibility of “being a jerk” not only comes to fruition but is multiplied by 100 if the husband is involved in sin like pornography. Of course this is a very prominent issue within the culture and the church unfortunately.
I agree with you. I could write a book on the first 2 years before and after my abusive marriage. If I knew Mike winger before I got married or after, maybe I wouldn’t have gotten married. The abuse came because my wife and I tried for children…. Then the abuse.
@@ONSTAGEMUSICPODCAST sorry you endured that. I hope you're currently in a healthy and safer situation in life
@@las8883 Thanks @L! It’s a long story. To tell you the truth, she said I was a terrible husband and yelled at me telling me that God has done more for her than me and that she can’t have babies now and picked up an Oscar trophy and said she’d kill me with it. I never EVER thought in my life I’d ever be an abused husband. I prayed and cried even on rainy evenings while driving down the highway and was almost killed by a semi, but eternity with Christ was actually better than to be with her. I tried to to jump from our 16 story condo building on Victoria Day, but my agoraphobia and fear of heights saved me. After she gave me the hardest left hook to my face, I left and she locked me out of my own house and i slept like a homeless guy in a foyer. Then I went into a dark place and became this evil sesspool of a man and hated every couple with a child. I spit at them! Bitterness ….BUT THANK GOD, I found a love for singing and became a Tenor and started meeting like minded singers and Opera singers and after a year, I got to know Christ again. This was 2015. In 2021, I had a miracle happen in my life that made me think of eternity death stared me in the face and found first Chris Rosebrough, then Justin Peters and Mike Winger. I tell you, LS, I NEVER EVER want to this evil and embittered guy EVER AGAIN that even my boss hated it! 7 years later, I want nothing else but Jesus. I’m not that guy anymore 😢 and to answer your question, if God wants to give me a Prov 31 wife or someone who loves Jesus than themselves, then Yeaj! In the meantime, I’m single and divorced and whatever happens happens. Also, by the way my wife left God because of me. I pray she comes back somehow
Brother you don’t know how right you are. One of the most selfish things any of us can be involved in. Almost ruined my marriage and now we walk with Jesus. Praise god!
@@ONSTAGEMUSICPODCAST thank you for telling me your story! I'm so glad to hear how despite your hardship you still hold on to your faith in Christ and that you've escaped that abusive marriage (she sounds awful!). He is truly faithful
I appreciate how Mike explains the paradox of biblical leadership and its application in marriage.
Being single, if a man has an unhealthy approach to leadership it's a red-flag.
It's worrying to see some Christian men's obsession/ paranoia with submission. You can see it all through this comment section.
you wrote:
if a man has an unhealthy approach to leadership it's a red-flag
It doesn't help when the leader of my country is
a heartless dementia-riddled communist.
At least they have a good reason: selfishness. What excuse does the 'doormat Stepford Dummy' wife have to agree with this type of arrangement when imposing it on others. The only reason any woman would agree with submitting as most men would see it and agree with it, which bears no resemblance to what Mike is saying, is because:
1. It is culturally normal - Saudi Arabia etc.
2. Her husband is rich and fears losing him if is coercively controlling.
3. She is trauma bonded and trapped and goes along with it to survive emotionally
4. She's too dim to realise how daft she is being.
5. She lacks personal ambition and doesnt' want anything other than wife/mother duties and would probably be the same whether Christian or not.
A godly arrangement has no bearing on how most see the husband and wife complementarian model. Mike is quite right here. Unless the male is lovingly sacrificing to his wife in submission to God, it is just oppression 'do as I say, not do as I do'. To then try and impose that on other couples' marriages is quite frankly dangerous, irresponsible and highly damaging to daughters. I can speak from experience.
@@PotterSpurn1 you wrote:
and doesnt' want anything other than wife/mother duties
This is fine. The population of certain
countries (Japan and others) is going
down. We may have reached the greatest
number of people alive on Earth at the
same time now.
The average is 2.1
Women on average must have 2.1 children
to maintain a stable population globally.
I heard this year that either in Canada
(or the West, I don't know) that 50% of
women are childless at age 30. This is
what happens when women are told
that becoming a mother is what only
lesser women do. Of course there are
other factors in play in modern times
as well.
@@PotterSpurn1 I get what you're saying, but it does get tricky if I compare your list to my relationship with Jesus.
1. It is culturally normal to submit to Christ (in Christianity).
2. Jesus Christ is (heavenly) rich and I fear losing Him.
3. I do need Jesus to survive emotionally.
4. I might be too dim to realize how daft I'm being.
5. I do lack personal ambition and don't want anything other than disciple/discipler duties.
@@SimpleAmadeus Of course. but B G was specifically talking about what it takes to want an unbiblical relationship centered around the man and not Jesus. Disregarding #3 because I know Jesus didn't abuse you into a relationship with Him. Those can't be the only reasons or even the first that come to mind when asked why you love and submit to Jesus.
It’s hard for any human being to lead like this. It goes against our sin nature. It took my husband the first 17 years of our marriage to “get it”. But when he did he melted my heart. His transformation was a work of God.
For many years my husband did not want to have children. I was fine with it for a while but then I began to really want to have children with the man I loved. He said things to me like, “You’re just trying to force me to do something I don’t want!” And I told him calmly, I’ve let you have it your way for 16 years. I think it’s my turn now.” He’s grumbled a bit but slowly warmed to the idea. He then told me, “Well, fine but we’re not gonna do anything extraordinary to try to have children.“ Reasoning that since we’ve been married all the time and I had not gotten pregnant I probably couldn’t get pregnant. The thing is, he didn’t know that I asked the Lord for children and he gave me Psalm 113. The last verse of that Psalm reads like this:
“He settles the childless woman in her home as a happy mother of children.”
I knew at that moment not only would I have a baby, I would have more than one.
Two weeks after I went off birth control pills I was pregnant. I was 35 years old and when she was born we’d been married 17 years. When he took that baby in his arms it was true love. He was in his 40s and he finally turned the corner to be a fully fledged “head of our household“ because he was filled with love and willing sacrifice. 19 1/2 months later, he had his second child to love. To say he was an excellent father and husband is a gross understatement.
Sadly, my husband passed away at just 54 years old. I still have my two beautiful daughters and they and I miss him every day.
❤️
Thank you so much for sharing that.
RIP… incredible story
Tha k you sharing your story 🙏
You were 18 years old when you got married?
As a wife I too can be a jerk.
Submitting can create jerks too. Terrifying😐
Mike Winger´s content is like a palette cleanser for me. When the world stresses me out? I get on this wholesome, biblical vibe. Always step away feeling calmer.
100% agree.
You can sum this up is a single sentence- Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As a single, it is pretty scary because men in the church seem to demand submission from the get-go upon meeting them. Coming from a background of severe abuse, I am looking for a man I can trust so I can feel safe to trust him enough to allow him to lead. So I am still single. Just hard because it is so hard to even meet Christian men, because they certainly aren’t going to church. I do feel bad for young adults who still go to church because they are pretty isolated as well from meeting other like-minded Christians. Something needs to give because the church is encouraging many singles to go out into to world and find non-Christian mates. Almost everyone I know at church met their spouse when they were backsliding. Rare to meet couples who did it the right way biblically.
Human leadership of any kind is dangerous. I’m glad you made that point. It’s a human problem, not a men problem.
True power is in surrender. If leading produces a 'jerk' it's not sacrificial but dictatorial. Very good word.
Christ surrendered to his Fathers will when he ruled well. Husbands surrendering to Christ rules well.
Excellent points. Putting the other person first is a core principle of life in Christ.
Surrendering one's ego to the headship of Christ releases us to greater freedom than the world's 'authority' and 'power' could ever accomplish.
I love when Mike talks about the role of christian husbands. I wish he was the christian counselor my mom and dad went to when I was young. It soothes my wiked heart to hear that my purpose is to always love my would be wife. Weather she act like a neighbor stranger or enemy. My calling is to love and put her needs above my own.
So you just unplugged your headphones during this entire video?
No, you should love God and serve Him. Don't idolize your wife.
I am a visual person (graphic designer here) and this seems to be a spoken explanation of a visual I saw one time about work leaders.
It showed one leader on a chariot with a whip, yelling at the human slaves pulling the chariot. Versus a picture of a man tied to and pulling from the front of the slaves (like a lead sled dog). Having worked under a somewhat tyrannical boss at the time it was a really powerful statement for me.
I've seen that too, and I agree, I think it is a very powerful image to demonstrate true leadership.
Like how kings once rode into battle alongside their knights, instead of staying cooped up in their castles, safe and sound while ordering thousands to slaughter.
The most inspiring leaders have always been the ones to get into the same dirt with those they led, and show them how it's done.
I think it helps to approach marriage as being a servant to one another, and not being an “authority.”
As a husband, and father, i’m always attempting to lead by my actions, and lead in the important decision making.
I agree 100%. I think it maintains a healthy dynamic between husband and wife when both approach each other with a serving mindset
I respect that completely. Too many focus on “headship” and being the authority and decision-maker. Leading by example, serving and working to build up your loved ones seems so much better to me.
@@Krullerized oh! I must have forgot the verse where Jesus tells His followers how weak they were and forced them to wash His feet.
Thanks for pointing that out, I’ll reflect on that.
I heard it said once that in a marriage if both husband and wife are always finding a way to look after eachothers needs they will never have to worry about their own. And it is a beautiful way to be in a marriage and my husband and I try to always do that. I never have to worry about my own needs because my husband is always working to fill them and my husband never has to worry about his needs because I am always trying to find a way to fill them.
@@Krullerized the letter kills. The spirit gives life. In the broader context of God's will, he expects the greater must serve the lesser. Leadership is servant leadership. If Jesus the lord and teacher washed our feet, should not the husband be willing to wash his wife's feet. You are reading the verses in the light of worldly leadership which is foolishness exposed by the weak sufferer in the cross who defeated all rulers. The meek inherit the earth. The husband should show honor to his wife as the weaker vessel, OTHERWISE YOUR PRAYERS WILL BE HINDERED.
Husband started by hitting, went to trying to kill me. Told church, basically either ignored or told to submit more. Just lived with it. He quoted the verse about submission a lot. Never again.
Sorry
What in the world?
If he killed you, that pastoral staff would have YOUR BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!!
This is ridiculous. The church thinks is better that a woman risk her life than to divorce an abuser. And for what cause?? To save a marriage that is soul crushing this precious woman? Ugh!! C’mon church stop being stupid
Are you away from him now?
@@Star-dj1kw Yes. Thank you for asking.
@@Star-dj1kw That is a very good point.
Coming from a very destructive and abusive childhood and marriage this is a healing balm. THANK YOU FOR THIS! . Even though I'm submissive by nature and am a joyful helper yet the submission verses hurt my heart so deeply.
I continue to cry out to God because I truly WANT to obey him JOYFUL but I can't because submission feels like a prison cell. I don't want to be submissive because I am told I have to, I want to be submissive because I WANT to , that I understand the meaning and value behind it. I don't want to just do it and have a negative feelings about it.
My husband left over 10 years ago and I still am not considering a new relationship- even though I do feel like God is leading me in a new direction. I had always believed no remarriage no unless death, we can from a very strict background. No pants, jewelry, fingernail polish, movies etc.
I AM healing, I am in counsling I am investing more and more into my relationship with God. I was so messed up I couldn't even call God my father, when we said the Lord's prayer I'd skip over the word FATHER. Now that's my FAVORITE name for him. FATHER GOD !
I just can't seem to trust my well being to another human , its horrible the things we as humans can do to each other especially using God's words to do it.
The battle of finding good Men to trust. And determining their true characters beforehand.
@@johnrockwell5834 true. Same with women, people are people. It's sad though. We should be better to one another.
Look up the ministries of Leslie Vernick, Patrick Doyle, and Gretchen Baskerville. Also read the book Mending the Soul by Stephen Tracy.
I heard from Reformed Wiki, that you received a copyright strike from Joel Olsteen. Well, that has caused you to have me as a new sub!
That’s a spiteful comment. Honestly, unecessary. And not Christlike at all.
Servant leadership: a paradox?
Nope. As men we are called to lead through serving. Sometimes serving our wives, kids, marriages, and families means to take a leadership role. But we need to always lead with the idea that we are serving our families, not ourselves.
Servanthood IS leadership
@@Window4503 Ok, it's almost my bedtime,
I'm going to have to think about this. Not getting
it at this point. Maybe just tired.
Slavery is freedom, comes to mind, from Orwell's '1984'.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i George Orwell is not to be compared as equal with the Lord Jesus Christ, Who said, "The greatest among you must be the servant of all" ... and then demonstrated ... the greatest of all Men, because He is the Eternal God, submitted to the most humiliating death on the cross for the sins of all mankind.
@@hymnodyhands Someone
posted:
Servanthood IS leadership
Maybe watching the video again will
help, but this, above, doesn't make sense to
me at this point.
But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles domineer over them, and those in high position exercise authority over them. It is not this way among you, but whoever wants to become prominent among you shall be your servant, and whoever desires to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
-excerpt Matthew 20
Jesus came as a servant the first time.
The next time as ruler of the Earth.
@user-iz8np3vv4i it is good to have some explanation with short sayings like "servanthood is leadership". What I have come to understand is that with God--the highest Authority there possibly can be--He, like any proper ruler, cannot be outserved by those who serve Him in return. The king of the kingdom serves the whole kingdom over which he rules, while each subject beneath him serves but a part; that is the king's purpose, to seek the welfare of his subjects, which make up his kingdom. God makes our food taste, and furthermore taste good, and furthermore diversely good; he creates goals, and gives us desire to strive for such goals, and gives us the joy of accomplishing such goals. These things exist because He makes them exist, and He upholds them every moment, and does so for our pleasure, which is His pleasure. Because He serves, He is to be honored. And to obey Him is to be served by Him, because He made righteousness to be walked in for our joy and our prosperity in which He delights.
I had a counseling pastor tell me about a couple he was counseling where the wife had cancer and had decided she wanted to go in for chemo treatment. The husband told her no and said that as the spiritual leader, it was important for him to lead her in making a decision to trust God to be her healer. I reacted in the proper way: completely disgusted. This pastor then told me in this ugly, syrupy tone: "But it's his body, too." At the time, all I could think was, that's not what the Bible means by that, you Dope. If I was that guy's wife, I'd tell him where he could stick his idea of husband headship. That is abusive. People just add all kinds of unbiblical, man-made, idiotic ideas to this concept. It's ridiculous.
He wanted to get rid of her.
@@leahparker9033 I think that it would be best to not speculate about motive. We don’t know enough for that, and that amounts to sinful judgment. Now if we don’t want men to be abusive, then we shouldn’t be, either. Our words shouldn’t be used to possibly bear false witness against someone just because we don’t like their behavior.
Wow that is just terrible
I need to apologize, because though the counseling pastor that was telling me about it was, indeed, a Dope who ended up abusing me, the husband I really don't know anything about. My point was that he was distorting his leadership, and that ended up with an abusive result. That does not speak to his intention or motivation. His understanding may have been wrong, but he may have sincerely believed that was what he was supposed to do. Was it terrible? Yep. Was it abusive? Yep. Was it biblical? Nope. BUT....we all have learning to do when it comes to the Bible. Most people in today's Church are not biblically literate, so I think we (I) can and need to be a little more gracious towards those who err, even in ways that end up causing a lot of harm.
@@lindsaybrandt6151 Abusive result? She suffered with and possibly died of untreated cancer?
In my experience as a counselor I have actually seen exactly what he’s talking about but I’ve also seen situation where the husband was being a servant and the wife was entitled accustomed to using the situation. Something of a reverse power play that demand deference given the mandate. Wonder what he would say to his model being hijacked?
That the husband's obedience is beautiful to God, he didn't abdicate his duties just because someone else was sinning, and he will have his reward. That the wife needs to repent and if she doesn't she will have to stand before God and answer to Him.
I know of a similar situation. She will get her eternal reward, which likely will be hell, if she doesn't repent from her entitlement. Hopefully she'll die second, and realize without him that he was actually a wonderful husband that she never truly loved or treated right, and end up on her knees before God.
He should bring it to attention though, with kindness. She obviously doesn't see the high value her part in the mothering/household/wife duties actually are, to God himself.
I will say that I am moving away from being a semi-similar person like her. God opened my eyes.
More than anything that did it other than Him was the book Love & Respect. He used it in that way. You can suddenly see the other person, how they were made, and their point of view.
I think it proves his model is inaccurate! A good resource to check out is Doug Wilsons fairly short video on this topic called "Unless God thinks you wronged her."
@@black_horse_lover2655 I would not disagree with that one bit. my point was more we’re moving into a cultural atmosphere where the more predominant problem will be what I described. That’s all. I’m sure on a case by case basis you’ll still have both.
@@dawsonjarrell
Yeah, even though the culture is constantly changing, we should stay true to the unchanging Word of God even when it’s hard. His ways are higher than our ways. I’m sure the whole being cursed with the desire to rule over your husband has always been a major problem. It is true it’s more socially acceptable in this age.
Thoroughly enjoying your women in ministry series and your input on biblical marriage. So good.
The potential for anyone to become a jerk is a real problem.
How to be a good husband is what I searched that day that led me to Mike in the first place. What a blessing that was for me to finally be able to see how I could be better from the proper, biblical perspective. Mike, thank you so much for what you do. You’ve provided me with clarity and I’m a better man for it, I believe.
All power is inherently dangerous. It shows who you are. All Kings, parents and other positions of power always has great potentials for either good or evil.
Counter argument: God is all-powerful (omnipotent). That power is not dangerous, except to the wicked.
My first anniversary is coming up and I'm just grateful for God's word since that's how we go about our marriage. Something I always try to remember is for husbands to not be harsh. To lead in love and respect.
Woop Woop. God's greatest blessing other than salvation. Have a great anniversary.
As a husband and father I like hearing truth about this subject my take on it is if I’m supposed to lead its like a late night bush walk I’m basically out the front getting hit with the branches and spider webs making sure the way is clear if you break it down God has made us strong in different ways and us men need to cop some blows and shield those we love leading is and should be a tough gig scripture promises that but it’s also rewarding as we get to uplift and honour our families.
Marriage should never be about you serve my whims it’s about serving one another not cause we’re told but because we love each other and husbands don’t get a ticket to boss their wives around that’s just childish arrogant and wrong.
I always wanted to start a support group for Christian women in spiritually and mentally abusive marriages. From leadership to the pew there are many men in Church that terrorize their families while presenting as godly loving men in the church community. I know the Lord sees all but I weep for the suffering endured. Its so widespread and normalized . I appreciate this clip. Hopefully hearts are convicted and families healed.
It sounds like you want to start a gossip group which will multiply sin. If you have legitimate complaints against someone, take it to the church elders. If the elders are bad then you need to leave.
@@michaellautermilch9185 I am an elder so we agree on that.. Second , If elders are bad? Then the need to be, addressed which may lead to them stepping down. The weight of elder abuse and disobedience shouldn't be placed on the flock and cause them to scatter or "leave" as you suggested. Lastly, Perhaps seeing it as a gossip group is a projection out of your own heart? Either way the issue is the abuse. All in all pray for healing , wisdom and restoration in these matters.
My God. This promotes so much evil. I keep finding this message throughout these videos. Please please be smart and keep yourself safe, God loves you and would not want you to be hurt or kept in danger.
I like you in my life Mike. Perfect timing. Giving me God’s message right now is pulling me through some difficult times. Thank you for the word
So thankful to hear teaching on husband leadership in the context of biblical servant leadership. So often it seems to be detached from the whole, as if general christian leadership is servant-leadership but between man and wife it's all about domination and superiority.
Truly a man of God who has witnessed both sides of marriage relationships. Tempered and instructed thru the Word.
I enjoy seeing these videos!
This topic tends to pull out and expose where men need to focus.
Be more LIKE Christ. Be a servant first, and do not assume your authority is greater than what it is. You should not think more highly of yourselves than you ought.
This is my ever present and leading goal - to Love my wife like Christ Loves the Church.
Where Love is defined in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a.
He did a THREE HOUR teaching on this on Monday - might want to check that one out!
Three hours, talk about flogging a dead horse, flee……
Mike you did a shoooooorrrrrrt video! Awesome! Btw I love the chapters in your other videos.
I wish corporate leaders would practice this form of responsible leadership.
The best leaders always come from being the best followers. This is true in military service, business, church ministry, and ESPECIALLY in the home. Now, in the home context, God is the only true authority for designating the husband as head of the household. That said, the husband must be ACTIVELY submitting himself to God's authority without ceasing. He must set his ego aside, and actively seek His wisdom and counsel on how to lead his family the right way. The ONLY way.
Good word on leadership in all realms: leadership is for serving others, to raise up and to promote their proper development.
Not gonna lie that’s something I need to work on more
My husband is a narcissist and I struggle with this issue. He doesn't act like a Christian in the home but at church he does, so it's hard to get help at church. However it's teaching me to lean on God.
I get that. My husband was a pillar of the church while slapping around his family at home, and one (1) pastor helped. Christians turn a blind eye to this, I think, because they don't know what to do. High time they figured it out. Maybe it's the "that's not happening in OUR church" syndrome.
I pray you get help. Meaningful help that will serve to correct his behavior and do not bring things to ruin. Surely there must be someone who can confront in a peaceful way his issue.
Please listen to Leslie Vernick she has experience of this kind of thing
Yes, I got it now. Leadership within the family is serving, it's not the earthly leadership we see in the world. I didn't realise that Jesus said that already for what His own leadership is concerned (see John 13:8) - I never realised this is also valid in the home, between husband and wife. Thank you Mark.
Best explanation of this I have ever heard. thank you!
As a first born, it’s all service, service, service. That’s the experience- it just comes naturally- training from birth forward.
I'm glad I have seen almost no leadership abuse from husbands/ fathers in my life.
I think I've seen some on tv, but I can't think of a time I've seen it in my personal life.
Wonderful testament to the guys in your life. Would be encouraging if you let them know this. A lot of people struggle because of abuse of leadership in their life, making submission to God's word extra difficult.
I wish I could say the same 😢
I would also like to point out that right above the whole wide submit to your husband's first it says, submit yourself one to another out of reverence for christ. So the way submission is constantly taught on and shoved down our throats and shoved in our faces is wrong. The original Greek terminology is military and nature referencing troops coming into alignment with each other to go into battle together which makes the verse above it make way more sense and makes that Union make way more sense because all of it is supposed to be about making God known.
Christian men need to also remember that they're part of a feminine collective. They're part of the Bride of christ. They're part of the daughter of God. Because we're referenced as the daughter or the bride collectively depending on how God's relating to us. More men need to understand what that is and get good at relating to God that way and yielding themselves to him fully.
I've seen so much pride and idolatry in the church regarding these things.
Also so much of the church chucking the word of God out the window about how we're supposed to relate to each other as Brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of marital status for the sake of marriage. Where on Earth does it say that we get to throw God's word out the window and disobey Him in these other areas for that?
It seems to be a bigger issue for men in that none of them seem to have let Jesus in to redeem how they look at us as human beings and as women. Typically we're potential threats temptations and/or spouses depending on their marital status. But we're never God's daughters his precious creations and or their sisters in Christ to them before we're anything else. Jesus came to redeem us down on the human being level too because what happened back in the Garden was not just about marriage.
We're not called to just relate to each other through marriage. We're called to be the family of God and we're called to love our neighbors and our enemies and to make disciples of all nations etc.
God calls men to account for everything in his word starting back in the garden and I have seen men doing a whole lot of resisting instead. Also mocking so many women who've suffered at the hands of far too many men through far too much of history including within the church.
That's not how Jesus showed up for women at all.
If any of this is making you angry, you should ask yourself and especially God why that is.
Brilliant video
Thank you 😊
A good leader is like a sherpard that leads the sheep, love your wife like christ loved the church. Of course there are dangers to having a power role, pride, egotistical, controlling, my way or the high way. Dangers of leadership affects both men and women in power. It's not all men that are capable of being a leader or understand leadership.
A godly man would know the dangers and try to avoid them and pray to God to help him.
Great video although I will say, the not leading "nice guy ditch" is very common in the west as I see passive and weak men everywhere.
Yeah ,DEAR CHRISTIANS,"NICE GUY" AND OTHER MISANDRIST WORLD,you destroyed Yosef by being cucked and submissive to women
I hope this is released in full some day
Already has been, search marriage questions conference, there is an 8 video playlist and Mike is the speaker of sessions 3,5, and 7.
The potential of pastors to become jerks is a real danger as well. All well and good that you mention service as the motivation for headship. But if a wife never has to follow her husband's lead when she might disagree, then it isn't submission. What's missing from the pulpit for the last 10-20-30 years are pastors that are willing to speak to the rebellious matriarchy. Big Eva is so feminized that the mere mention of male headship causes pastors to quiver and apologize. If a woman has doubts about submission in marriage, do the men a favor and don't get married/
I think it is Gods grace whenever the wife and the huband is good for us or not in a sense of making us feel nice. I don't think submission is a great of a deal if both wife and husband want to really listen to God. I have bad relationship with my father and If my husband wasn't very patient I wouldn't probably heal from the crooked way of understanding how relationships are. Some people don't even know that they aren't doing a good work in their marriage. We are mostly unaware how many things we are doing wrong. God have mercy on all of us.
Exactly. Not all Christian women or men should get Married if they are not going to fulfill their responsibilities. If the husband is to lead like Jesus, At some point the woman is expected to follow just like we have to follow Christ. Some sections of scripture is hard to swallow but we have to follow anyways. I just wish those that are not willing to fulfill their roles just stop pretending and stay out of the way of those that are willing.
@@davesawe5346 Well I more see life as a tool to make us holy. Everyone has problems going into the marriage. I don't see: don't get married if you are at fault of not doing your role well. I see:
(1Cor 7:2) Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
(1Cor 7:3) Let the husband render to the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife to the husband.
We are all botched and can't do things as we should. It doesn't mean people shouldn't have kids or spouses. It's not what Bible says.
People that are not following Jesus are not staying in your way. They are there for you to love them and they are sure the part of path God made for you to make you more like Jesus. About looking for spouses: You just have to make informed decision and deal with the aftermath.
We sholudn't do things that are expected from us but to do things by faith. My father was a jerk husband and my mother is submissive. She has to do his and her part in the marriage. She does everything with the grace of God. And I can say that her whole life is something that tells me about Jesus.
The sexual abuse and cover up statistics in the modern church don’t support your theory. The facts show the exact opposite, in fact.
Hey Mike one of the titles of your videos gave me an idea. "Why I can't be a Roman Catholic."
I'm wondering could you do videos like that for different issues we face? Like, "Why I can't be pro-abortion." or "Why I can't be Trans gender." for example.
Ooooo I love this idea!
"so that he might present the church to himself in splendor" Looking at this, our leadership is for our wife's benefit, but also for ours because we present her to ourselves?
I wish this would be preached on, because it seems touchy, but an important thing to point out and understand.
I think part of the problem is that we have an unhealthy understanding of what the word Authority means and how it is supposed to be lived out. This is why the Bible specifically teaches us to follow the example of Christ. There are times when leaders do have to put their foot down or to be demonstrative, but the regular everyday activity of a leader is to supply what's needed, lovingly give direction, and to protect those over whom he has authority. It's like a husbandman has authority over the grapevines. He's not going to beat his grapevines into submission, he's going to nurture them and guide their growth. However, I really think that we have a much bigger problem in our society with people not understanding how to appropriately submit to authority. I think that both are issues that need to be more thoroughly taught on, but I think we need to be very careful not to neglect teaching people the importance of proper submission to authority, and that includes within the home especially. When you have a wife who is constantly trying to usurp her husband's Authority and buck against his leadership, his attempts to submit to the Lord and Lead his family the way that the Lord is leading him will not appear to be loving. He will either have to create friction with his wife or disobey the Lord. However, if a man is not submitted to the Lord, then his authority will be abused. Submission is the responsibility of the follower, not the responsibility of the leader. It is the man's responsibility to be submitted to the Lord and it is the wives responsibility to be submitted to her husband and it is the children's responsibility to be submitted to both. Children need to be taught this, but adults should know this by the time they are old enough to get married and should not have to be taught. The wife should not have to be taught that she should obey her husband, she should know that before she ever gets married. A man should not have to be taught that he's responsible to obey the Lord in how he leads his family, he should know that that is his responsibility before he ever gets married. It should not be the husband's job to teach his wife to submit to him, that's why the Bible never tells him to do that. That is not the reason to say that he's wrong to oppose her when she's being rebellious to his leadership. He just needs to be sure to do it in a Christ like way. View the way that Christ handled his disciples when they were not on board with his leadership. He wasn't mean or nasty most of the time, but there were times when he had to directly correct them and he even once called Peter Satan. It's a more complicated issue than people seem to realize but I think that we are miles away in our society from having a proper construct of authority in the home.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
a) assume authority over g831 to domineer, have mastery over, take up arms against, to act without submission, to act as an autocrat, to be self appointed over
--> NO Christian should act like this
-> compare to authority used to describe God g1849 privilege, capacity, competency, freedom, delegated influence, power, liberty to act, power, strength.
--> g831 is used once in the Bible, not even used in revelation when Jesus brings judgment. So it can’t be good authority like Jesus has.
I agree completely that humanity exercises a very twisted and sinful perversion of authority and then try to lay their thinking of authority into scripture where it doesn’t belong. And are then revolted by the idea of God or a husband having authority over their lives because human authority tends to be abusive.
Love how you didn’t mention husband’s responsibility to his children even once, such as not provoking children to anger, training them up and the husband’s responsibility to teach his wife the word, live with an intelligent understanding of her, honour her and love her well; but repeated her responsibility to submit and obey more than three times. (All of these commands are biblical). But you seem to understand that this critical ommision of the FULL counsel of God creates problems. You don’t state HOW the rebellion festers, and don’t seem to mention that both men and women have duties and responsibilities in the covenant of marriage. To God, and eachother! Shows how you interpret “servant leadership” and I don’t have to know you to point this out. You need only read your own comment.
@Ad-Lo I apologize if it seemed like I was ommitting something. I was talking to a very specific point about a wife's responsibility to understand her husband's authority in the home and his responsibility to practice it in a Christ-like way. I do not think anything I said negates or ommits any of the things that you said.
Yep I've been a jerk and I lost my wife because of it... I admit it I was a jerk too many times...
Definitely a failure as a decent Christian I am, my testimony is weak, my faith is lacking, I am prideful inside, sinful, broken, lonely, toxic, I am a pitiful fool to be scorned and looked at as a lesson on how not to live as a follower of the messiah...
I admit my faults openly, my sins are many, pride, lust, envy, sloth, liar, cheat, murderer, adulterer, rebellious, dishonorable towards parents, brothers, sisters, children, associates, bosses, rulers, most authority, slanderer, defiler, sorcerer, gambler, greedy, disrespectful, unholy!
I understand that imperfect sinners we all are, no one is better or worse than another on this path, were all deserving of death and damnation...
Who am I to judge someone elses walk with God? Yet I find myself doing so with almost every thought, every decision on how does this or that line up with the written word?
I feel very pharisee like and not very child like... truthfully childish on most days.
Truly broken I am, I do not feel like a new creation in Christ on most days, it is a real struggle to stay in his sabbath rest (if I even really know how that feels or what that is) the yoke does not feel very light, I am much afraid filled with doubts and on someday's I doubt my salvation because when I look back on my life all I can see is self self and more self and not a lot of Jesus in my life, thats a tough place to be not seeing any spiritual fruit, just filthy rags, weeds kindling...
So the promises made to unrepentant sinners comes to mind and their fate and I fear it is my fate too for being a hearer of the word and not a doer of the word...
It feels hopeless at times looking back at the ruins of my 15 year marriage and find gratitude for the good stuff and be thankful that I even got to experience that blessing thanking God and actually meaning it... Some days I feel like God hates me and my existence.
I feel like Job and on somedays like judas, I still cling to a God that does not talk to me in any recognizable fashion, my talk is to him at him it is not a two way dialogue, is that how its supposed to be?
I make quiet time and space to hear his still small voice but it is not audible to me over my own inner voice of doubt confusion and fear.
I am afraid of being thrown into the fire of hell for my sins my pride.
I believe, help my unbelief!
I feel like a Judas betraying Christ using him as a means to get ahead in life... Im tired of this madness Mike, brothers/sisters... Im tired of feeling alone even though the promises are written for me to see.
My broken marriage/divorce does not help me have more faith, it makes me doubt I was ever saved or worse one of those vessels created for wrath...
Im tired.
God fix me please.
Brothers and sisters pray for my salvation, I feel condemned today.
Thanks Mike for the conviction... This is a window into repentance I'ma guessing.
Good video Mike, it makes me uncomfortable.
Blessings and aloha Timothy
I’m lifting you up right now. Praying over you for encouragement and rest. I sense your weariness and have been there as well. You see your need and speak honestly and humbly… God will honor that in time. Trust him… He is with you. Too many only want enough God to feel ok with themselves… too few truly see their brokenness and need for a loving, all powerful, everlasting Father.
Father, I ask you to meet this man where he is… let him hear your voice. He has seen the truth of his heart, meet him there and renew him in heart and mind.
Bless this man’s journey, Father just as you did the sinner in the temple who beat on his chest and cried out to you.
It’s great that you can clearly see what a no good man you really are.
We are truly nothing without God.
Now drop the resentment and unforgiveness and you will go the rest of the way to God.
Don’t forget the encouragement in the second half of that verse you mentioned…
“Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth. By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.”
1 John 3:18-20 ESV
“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel. For God is my witness, how I yearn for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus. And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.”
Philippians 1:6-11 ESV :)
“Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
You have humbled your self and confessed, we all have our issues and mine are the opposite, I was harmed by people who had done the same things as you described. May I offer you this: admission is your first step to healing. I used to think only the "VICTIMS of such things " needed the healing and that is not true. The ones who are in your position desperately need healing also! This is the power of forgiveness. My sin of holding a grudge, staying angry and struggling with loving people who have hurt me is JUST as much as a sin as what they did.
I would also encourage you to get counseling, sometimes our symptoms of pride and some of the other things you mentioned may be there because of past hurts and wounds.
GOD LOVES YOU MY BROTHER, I pray his healing grace overshadows your life in ways that will astound you. Let him take the guilt and condemnation away and replace it with HEALING AND PEACE. May he show you your value and why he made you!
You are aware of you behavior and God WILL correct who he loves. BUT NOT ONE TIME IN TJE BINLE DID GOD EVER LOOK UNFAVORABLE ON A PERSON WHO CRAWLED BACK TO HIM TRULY ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS. NOT ONCE, DID HE OR WILL HE.
Stand with your head up, he LOVES you just as much as the woman at the well, King David after his failures, the same as Peter denying him 3 times and he loves ypu just as much as anyone who was led astray because of their humanity.
Accept his forgiveness, he is not wanting to chastise you he wants to FREE YOU. And any other voice you hear tgat says otherwise is a very angry enemy who is losing control over you, he knows if you can accept God's amazing forgiveness and healing he loses another prisoner.
Praying for you, have a beautiful day in Christ!
Thank you!
There’s a pattern all throughout Scripture that shows that God’s Kingdom is an upside down kingdom. To go up, you go down. To be exalted, you humble yourself. To be the greatest, you serve. To be wise, you become a fool. To be glorified and lifted up, you suffer. To lead well, you lead in a way that puts others first. And many others. This is God’s Kingdom. An upside down kingdom, yes, but a very good one. God bless, Mike. I recently started that other video you mentioned here on being a good husband and am taking notes on it as I wade through it slowly. Thanks a lot for that. 🙏🏽 Thanks for this video as well. I do indeed see the potential for becoming a jerk in all of us in leadership positions. Praying for God to give us the strength to remain humble and loving, and to avoid falling into the trap of abusing power.
I dont think God's kingdom is an upside down one I think the world likes to likes to lie and flips God's kingdom on its head. Think about the humble bieng exalted; Isnt it annoying when someone brags? Doesnt pride come before a fall? The humble bieng exalted isnt an inversion, it is the way things are naturally as God intended.
I mean, what does it say about us sinners when we proclaim ourselves as great? Only a fool would think so highly of himself that he looks at all of his sins, flaws, mistakes, and says "i deserve to be exalted." And what fool is to be exalted?
@@oahtobar1355 That’s an interesting thought, but I don’t think we actually disagree. I think we’re just saying the same thing in different ways. God’s Kingdom is obviously always in the right since He is the source of goodness and truth, but in calling it an upside down kingdom, I am merely referencing the fact that the world, in most cases, thinks contrary to what the truth (or God’s view on a matter) really is. The world doesn’t often think as far ahead as what you’ve reasoned because we are all fallen and have a nature bent towards wrong thinking. Before we were saved, we didn’t think rightly either. It is the Holy Spirit Who has used the glorious light of the gospel to reveal to us the truth. This is why the Bible says that God used something foolish *to the world* to confound the wise, when speaking of the way in which God chose to save the world (through the humiliation, death, and resurrection of His Son, who will save anyone who believes in Him). It isn’t suggesting that God’s plan to save the world was actually foolish (that should be obvious since His plan worked). Rather, it is pointing to the fact that God’s way of thinking on issues and dealing with issues is so radically different from what we as humans are apt to believe that it appears to us foolishness, that is unless the Holy Spirit illuminates a person and leads them to the truth. So I agree with what you said, and I think what we’re both saying can be summarized like this: God’s Kingdom is an upside down kingdom to the world, but not to those who actually have knowledge of God and His ways, and most certainly not to God Himself.
@@one-il5fuamen! Well said, and humbly offered.
Thank you for explaning why some conservative households manage to be toxic like other conservative households.
That being said, monolithic patriarchy is still a problem.
The beautiful irony with the Lord is that how higher your position is the more humble you need to be.
Mike, please clarify sacrificial love. In my opinion, too many weak men take this to mean that the husband gives in to the wife at every juncture and thus begins the downward spiral. In other words, it gets to the point where the wife has to have everything her way or she throws a tantrum, withholds sex etc. You also hear far too many men deferring to their wives regarding everyday decisions e.g., "I have to ask the boss."
Mike Winger approves of calling your wife the boss. Go listen to someone like Toby Sumpter or Joel Webbon instead!
Anything can be dangerous if you do it incorrectly.
Shalom man of God and many blessings to you and to your beautiful wife and families (personal/ministries).
Your insight is so on point man of God and you are right. Leadership can become dangerous when a person is ill informed and underdeveloped in this position. And this is why Jesus had to show His disciples the true construct of this position. Power is easily abused when a person is not properly taught how to move in this kind of decor. Leadership is beautiful because of the intimate position it upholds when expressing the power and sovereignty of Jesus Christ and The Godhead. Any husband in the place of leadership have to have the cross at work on a daily basis. Dying daily to one's flesh and to the self life is a must. This goes for the wife as well. The cross itself cannot be neglected when a man is moving in leadership. This helps him stay in a posture of humility and it keeps him from abusing his power and his position as one who covers, protects, and leads.
Man of God, leadership is stemmed in leading. A husband is in the place of leading his wife and family. The word "lead" in leadership unveils this truth man of God and this is why The LORD God did not have to bring clarity to the function of this role. The headship of the man carries the accountability and responsibility of the man being able to lead. A husband leading his wife is a very intimate and beautiful thing. The husband's leadership pretty much communicates as a teaching mechanism unto the wife. When a wife sees her husband moving in the position of leadership, she is actually in the position of being exposed to what God looks like in His image and how He flows and moves in His position as one who covers, protects, and leads. A wife is suppose to see God in her husband when he moves in leadership. And she is suppose to be able to glean from his ability to lead. Because his leadership carries the language of a teacher, and it has the ability to counsel, cultivate, and refine who his wife is in her beautiful intimate kingdom build as a woman, and as one who also reflects God. If we go back to the cross beautiful people of the Most High God, we will be able to see this truth.
The vertical beam of the cross is the husband and the horizontal beam of the cross is the wife. The husband in the position of the vertical beam of the cross reveals him in a "leading position." This is the same beam that aligns with the structure of the staff, the scepter, and the rod. Those instruments alone identify with leadership and with the teaching nature of the man/husband in his ability to lead. The staff, scepter, and rod identify with authority and power yes, but also with majesty, sovereignty, guidance, instruction, counsel, and cultivation, and structure. A man moving in alignment with this beam of the cross is a man who is upholding his wife who is in the horizontal position of the cross. This represents the oneness that is built between the husband and his wife, and they are moving, giving expression to an image that is perfect, whole, and complete which is the image of Jesus Christ and The Godhead. And they also give expression to the perfect image of Jesus Christ and His Bride. Shalom
Thank you!!!!
Your leadership in a marriage as a husband is leading the way in serving your wife and children and home as an example to emulate. This carries over in all areas of life: marriage, faith, obedience, submission - the 5 Ws, life's issues - all of this in order to show your wife and prepare your wife to practice submission to Christ through submission to you as her husband.
This way she has no excuse as to not submitting to her household through Christ.
If a man's sacrifices for his marriage and family is called "leadership," what is a woman's sacrifices for her marriage and family called? And what is the difference between the two?
Sometimes they call it 'martyrdom' but that's more of a negative phrase, lol. I don't know that there are clear differences . . . couples can decide together how to run a household, every couple is different . . . the man's authority is more spiritual than practical (imo)
Very good question that I havn't thought of before.
I'm sure some contortionism of scripture can explain it. (snicker)
SOOOOO MANY - MOST - professing Christian husbands miss that the point of all this is to bless your wife’s growth to present her to God as this awesome offering of someone you’ve helped grow for His glory and her good, both temporally and eternally. That’s what the whole paragraph describes.
Also, they miss that they can only accomplish this through total constant surrender to Christ - most will try to love as Christ in the power of their own flesh when it’s only possible through the Holy Spirit
But even the phrase, 'Your leadership is for your wife's benefit' could easily be misunderstood or twisted. Who gets to decide whether something is for her benefit? What kind of thing are we talking about? Leadership in what?
If leadership is servanthood, then this surely is the only thing he has a right to lead in - being a servant, laying down his life for her. A servant does not command, but serves, is not above but below. In the same way the wife serves in arranging herself below him to serve in submission to his servanthood. Both are slaves to each other. Both are laying down their lives for the other. There is no greater love than this.
Seriously, "leadership is servanthood" is this for real?
Is this a new or old concept?
I don't know how/what this even could mean.
Jesus came to serve, this time. Next time He's
not going to be in the servant position.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i
Luke 22.
25 Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26 But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.
An example of how Jesus acted as a servant is in his washing of the disciples feet. This was a function of a slave. He is leading in his example of how we are to treat each other.
Leadership without servanthood is lording over. It is self seeking, and engenders a sense of entitlement and ownership over the one/s it is leading. Leadership has to be self sacrificial. We are told continually to put others first and ourselves last. This is servanthood and includes everyone. 1 Cor 10:24 No one should seek their own good, but the good of others.
We are told to emulate Jesus as he came, as one who served, not as he will come, otherwise we would have been told to bow the knee to each other and to worship and adore each other.
@@julieamos86 Egalitarians Beliefs
(2 of 4 criteria listed at website I'm using)
Spouses are equally responsible for the family.
Marriage is a partnership of two equals submitting to one another.
you wrote:
We are told continually to put others first and ourselves last. This is servanthood and includes everyone.
So you are egalitarian, correct? I am 99% there myself.
The saying "leadership is servanthood" seems to be
what a politician would say, as they sometimes try to
take both sides simultaneously on an issue.
@@user-iz8np3vv4i A politician may use such doublespeak but what the bible means is that anyone who leads should do so with a servant heart and produce actions that serve others. It is not taking both sides, that would be devious and false like the kings in Luke 22 who call themselves benefactors but are in fact self seeking. It is that both sides are inseparably one.
Leadership is not a matter of privilege or status it is about service. To do this we must either know or find out how the other can best be served. If we don't we are just assuming what will be good for them, or worse we are serving what is best for ourselves. Only God has such perfect knowledge. Men do not.
I do not overly concern myself with equality. I prefer to focus on love. Love eradicates any such foolishness as vying for position or rank. But yes, I lean towards egalitarian practice. And would agree with the two criteria you set out.
If you have somewhere we could talk further and would like to do so please let me know by replying here.
God bless you, beloved.
@@julieamos86 There might be a better scripture but there
is this:
I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches.
-excerpt 2 Corinthians 11
If you regularly go to Mike Winger videos I'll keep an eye
out for you. I go to a few Christian channels, mostly to
post. Thanks for replying.
Hi Mike. What video is this clip taken from?
And helps also with the bringing up of children
You want him to work all day and come home to help with the dishes too, right?
@@evr0.904 not sure what you looking for this is 8 months old will have to listen again but yeah true we all should keep the house standing
I think most men don't realise that being a jerk at home is a pain also for kids at home and soon young adults. A lot of young men and women had bad father-daughter or father-son relationships so If we talk about it lightly we are not only making wifes go through immense hardships but also the children: future wifes and husbands who will bring their experiences into the marriage.
Agreed. Is that how Jesus treats us? By no means. Unless the Husband imitates how Jesus treats his people. Then he doesn't know Christian leadership.
Jesus does have true Authority and exercises it like he did in the Book of Revelations. But it was always loving, Just and Wise.
@@johnrockwell5834 Yes, obviously. But for the church Christ is very selfsacrificial and by no means authoritative. In the end the bride of Christ which is church is the people who want to be with him and are changed by the Holy Spirit. So there is that too. As a "wife" in the heavens we will be in Him and very much at the hardly understandable level of equality to Him. We will be elevated to do better things and be the closest to Him.
The relationship for husbands doesn't seem to be exercising any 'negative' authority but being like Christ who came to earth to self sacrificially save us and do everything for us. And any 'negative' authority Christ have is actually going towards people who actually are NOT his bride. The only thing I could think of is being at the front of his 12(as a master and leader) and loving them greatly(even Judas who was there not loving him back).
Yet husbands seem to like the powerplay and are prideful and see this as the way to exercise authority not Christlike behavior that is described in the Bible. I believe that it is what Winger is talking about.
@@LittleBabywriter
He is authoritative. That's why he actually threatens to take away a few churches candlestick for failure to live up to his standards. Which involves that Church being closed by Jesus Christ himself.
And he also said. If we love him we obey his commandments. Jesus is also the Old Testament God who commands Israel.
@@johnrockwell5834 It is after he died sir. I think it is his life on earth as a human is the one that we should aspire to, not the one after or before.
I had experiences with father acting like he is Old Testament God who rules everything and everyone and it is not holy nor pretty. It is I am an adult with my own family and he still thinks I should listen to him as if I am a child. First hand experiences with those stuff really make you aware how bad it is. We are ment to be like Jesus was on earth and humble ourselves. Not try to be in the positoion os God now or when he will rule and punish in the future.
@@LittleBabywriter
And did he stop being the Head and Husband of the Church afterwards?
Its a false dichotomy to think that being sacrificial and authority are inherently opposed. Even before his death He said: If you love me obey my commandments.
And even Adults nowadays obey their bosses and Government. And no I don't mean that women are to be micromanaged by a man.
Let us keep in mind that the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. He came to earth as a servant to be the ultimate sacrifice for sin. Now He is exalted and seated at the Father's right hand. Does He act "like a jerk" toward His Church? No. Anyone who objects to submission as outlined in The Bible needs to read those passages again and ask themselves if they are truly being submissive as a member of The Body.
Found this very helpful, so true. Whoever wishes to be the greatest must be a servant. I hope I remember that when I'm a father
I am so grateful God blessed me with my spouse because he gives grace whenever I give excessive truth. We balance each other out, not saying he doesn't give truth, but that he practices greater grace and patience than me lol.
Careful Mike. The overly patriarchal egoic and prideful society won't like this kind of teaching. Its correct, because husband authority has been taught so wrong down the years, many won't recieve it. Many have taught authority over a wife and wife submission as a "my way goes" and "you serve me and my needs". That is how you make a jerk husband. The reality is, the wife is submissive, but the husband is sacrificial and a servant. A lot of todays men do not like the idea of being a servant. 😉
I am 99% egalitarian for a number of reasons.
If we are to:
The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”
-excerpt Matthew 22
Then who is a husband's neighbor? It is his wife.
Would the husband want to be submissive?
There are other scriptures along these lines, and all this
is academic to me as well. I do save 1% for the complementarian
view, just in case I'm wrong.
Yes and mighty and macho are gonna go ballistic 😂😂
The men flying off on this instead of humbling themselves before the Lord to check in with Him about any of this are very telling about how many are really operating in pride and ego and exalting themselves as idols and gods of the church instead of yielding to the Lord and letting Him be truly God.
We live in a fxckin progressive society coz of women,we live in a matriachy cuz of modern tradcuck Christmas
No, go read your Bible
that's helpful.
Thinking biblically about everything is hard. On one hand I wanna live how the Bible tells me but on the other hand I wanna treat everyone with kindness and respect. Sometimes it seems like I can't do the second thing, not for lack of trying but maybe from trying to hard? The topic of abortion and Trans people are a couple examples.
Hi,
I had the same problem for years when it comes to abortion, until one day God led me to watch pastor Mike's video on abotion.( I can't remember the exact title of it, but I think it had something like 'my response to a woman reacting on my car sticker "former embrio on board'). That video opened my eyes and I saw that I was looking at this issue only from one (woman's ) perspective. God opened my eyes and I was able to see it differently than ever before. I saw that life begins from the moment of conception, and the size of the baby ( zygote,embrio, or fully formed baby) and place where that child is ( utero or outside world) does not change the fact that that baby is human and living from the first moment of conception, and therefore terminating the pregnancy is murder. While I can fully sympathize with the problems that unwanted pregnancy can cause a woman and could put her in an even harder situation, and the whole thing can be unfair; I realized that just because this situation makes a woman vulnerable that doesn't mean that that vulnerable woman doesn't have a responsibility toward an even more vulnerable person i.e. unborn baby.
I hope this helps in some way.
@@mimimimz6719 I am like 90% against abortion. I believe in the slogan my body my choice but in a different sense. If you wanna make a baby make a baby if you don't, don't do what can lead to a baby being made. But when the issue of rape comes up. It wasn't there choice. So in that sense I think abortion could be OK. One more sense where I think abortion would be OK is if delivering the baby will threaten the life of the mother.
@@killuafanboy3812
I agree with you on the point about having an abortion if mother's life is threatened. However it is still a woman's choice.
On the issue of conception due to rape, I am still undecided. Yes, it is a terrible situation but that's where my words that a vulnerable woman should consider even more vulnerable and innocent person i.e. the baby come. We as a society should do more to help women who find themselves in that position.
@@killuafanboy3812
In any case, you seem to be a kind and thoughtful person. May God bless you and help you in your walk with Him.
Be reasonable and kind to people. Be like how Jesus was towards sinners in his time.
lovely truth .
Price also told the church what they should and shouldn't do.
"Husbands, you need to lead" - "But you won't fail in that way".
Well, actually, there is *a danger in not being a husband/leader* .
There are husbands who can be very good at serving self-sacrificially, but who do not take their responsibility of *leading the family* seriously.
They may be great at doing all kinds of practical things *for* the wife and children, but neglectful about showing their family the fear of the Lord, nor give their children the Word of God, but rather compromises in that area, and leave the 'spiritual leadership' of the family to the wife.
This can be a cause of great greaf, and a heavy burden for the wife. And as the children see the inconsistencies - that the Word of God doesn't seem to mean that much to their Dad - they may even walk away from the Faith.
So please, Fathers, *do* take your place as leaders of the family, in showing you love for Christ and His Word, teaching it to your children from an early age.
And pray for your family *daily* .
This is, to me, what a truly great and faithful husband and father does.
"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" Galatians 5:22&23
If you are a follower of Jesus then you have the Holy Spirit living in you. Allow the Spirit to lead you down the right paths and produce these fruits in your life. Quit allowing the flesh to lead you but trust in God. We cannot imagine a better future than what God wants for us, so trust in Him and allow Him to lead. Hopefully this helped and inspired you today. God bless you!
The purpose and intention of leadership should be service toward those you lead.
No, read your Bible
Leadership exists to show God's love to those under that authority. This is mostly by showing honor and by exercising authority to promote godliness and restraining evil and sin, in accordance with God's laws and using the wisdom God gave you.
As Pastor Doug Wilson once put it, you don't lead by serving, you serve by leading.
So true but what about wives making life horrible because she refuses to submit even if the husband is doing all he can in love to guide his family? There seems to be an imbalance when talking about this subject. Is there a fear in calling out unruly wives as much as unruly husband's?
Yes, there is. Mr. Winger is a honest Christian and a skilled teacher, but when it comes to talking about women, he's as scared as every one else. It is one thing for the ancients to say women are inferior to men in everything, but he somewhat seems to prove it when he has to walk around these serious subjects with gentle steps. He never uses the same caution when speaking about men, who need real help in these days. They get the full bore.
Mike actully has been adressing that recently
He already made videos on that. It’s ok to make separate videos on the different topics.
Actually there’s a lot on this topic that I’ve seen, just check out other videos. I’m sure Mike has some too
Which is more important: that Christ loves the Church and lays down His life for her in perfect obedience to and fulfillment of the law of God? or that the Church responds to Christ’s saving work with perfect submission?
It says submit yourself to one another Eph 5:21
We should also look at the behaviour of the Church, it’s not always loving and righteous or caring, but christ loves and nurture is it, in order to present it, spotless and blameless.. we don’t earn or deserve the love that Christ gives us, but he gives it anyway unconditionally, that is the way he wants husbands to love their wives and that’s really hard for husbands, especially if the wife is not submissive.
But it’s also hard to submit to someone who isn’t loving. Does it mean men get a pass? What’s your point?
In accordance with this word and matthew 23:11-12, 2 corinthians 6:14-18 I bind one to be a humble leader in my life, the lives of my family, friends, colleagues, neighbours, acquintances, opponents and the body of Christ, while binding myself not to be unequally yoked with and having any common share with self-serving leaders, in the name and blood of Jesus Christ, amen and hallelujah:
"11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
There's only danger in it if the husband is carnal and not born of the Spirit.
I had some of this wrong
Have you looked at Philip Payne's Man and Woman One in Christ? Curious your thoughts on his findings.
I discuss it in great detail in my series on Women in Ministry. In short, I find fatal flaws in Payne’s work. czcams.com/play/PLZ3iRMLYFlHuBtpJlwi7F5JYw3N5pKyLC.html
I really can't see how anyone especially men watch this video and get mad?? Unless it challenges your own idea of what you think leadership is. Which is most likely wrong, toxic and terribly flawed. He stated all facts and backed it up with scripture. There is a wrong and right way to lead. You don't agree open up your Bible, pray and ask God to give you the understanding and wisdom to receive his word and instructions as he deemed it so and not your own.
I watched the video and got mad. His scripture was twisted and out of context. His argument is a straw man, holding up obviously bad examples to make his position appear better.
What are examples of "decisions for the household" in a modern setting? Are their any besides where you live?
My husband asked if I would homeschool our kids. I don’t want to, I’d like to get them into public school, I’d like to get back into the workforce part time….. but he strongly wished for me to do that for our family. It would not harm me or the children, there are a lot of great benefits to homeschooling, it’s the education he wants for his children…. I had a choice, I could have fought with him and ultimately told him no, sent my kids to school and completely denied him the authority over his kids upbringing. Or I could submit to his request and follow his leadership. I chose to honor my husband. I love him and I trust him and imo an empowered and respected man at home is a powerful and respected man in his community.
@@vickih5405 was this choice one that required you to leave behind a career you spent a long time qualifying for or did leaving the workforce mean leaving a factor or minimum wage customer service job?
@@danieldishon688 it did. I’m technically trained, respected, well paid and damn good at my job. I left when my kids were babies because I wanted to be home with them but I wanted to go back to work when they were school aged. I have several people that would bring me on, on the spot. I enjoy my work and I enjoy earning a paycheck and I enjoy the recognition and praise that I get at work (not that I don’t get any at home, my family is great) but it all just really fulfilled my ego and I miss it 😭.
@@vickih5405 No one cares about your career, least of all your husband. Why on Earth would you want to put your children in public schools? Stop being brainwashed.
Where is whole video? Why there are only short clips?
Check out Lisa Laizure on CZcams, she does "Women's Bible Study" content and you can find the videos on her channel, or website or app. It was at the "Marriage Questions Conference".
Look at the example we see in sports. All too often the umpire or the ref does not see the origin offense. All they seem to notice except in rare instances is the reaction to a dirty play. They see the reaction of the second baseman to the runner who wanted to injure him as he slid in with his metal cleats elevated to take him out of the game. Or the ref sees the reaction of a forward who just took the blow of a hockey stick to his Achilles’ tendon.
These are things that are being taught in sports. Fathers know they are and no one says a word
Now think of how police are taught to deal with civilians.
Now think of the tactics that are being taught in war. Did we really think they would not come home to roost or did the men just not care?
How can we watch the full video
The pastor leadership is also very dangerous. Lets undermine the authority of the pastor like we've undermined the authority of the husband. I'm sure you pastors would like that.
Mike Winger, in undermining husbands in their own homes, is by definition an abusive pastor.
The image of Christ being the head the Church needs to be further studied. The Church does not dictate Christ's leadership, does not manipulate Christ, the Church is not the "neck that turns the head where it wants". Moreover, Christ chastise those He loves (collectively and individually), etc. The imagery is difficult to apply on an individual basis and requires wisdom... It seems to me as a life long born again believer, who lived on 2 continents for the past 50 years that most pastors (from the evangelical persuasion) tend to interpret the imagery from a gynocentric perspective.
Is this maybe a factor for men leaving the local communities (Barna Research) where the rebellious feminist movement is slowly taking hold? So much more could be said but my brother in Christ looks one sided on this issue ( maybe a natural bias from his previous profession as an abused women counselor?). I love my brother Mike and received a good portion of Godly wisdom.
The Church doesn’t dictate Christ’s leadership, but Christ leads well. Perfectly, in fact. If you feel manipulated and coerced, maybe instead of blaming women examine your leadership. That’s factually the only thing you can change. Not an entire gender. Christ on the other hand…
the only danger is if he is abusive but God put man to lead his wife which means loving her willing to die for her as Christ died for the church and loves her
Men are to serve by leading, not lead by serving.
The man has to be submitted to Christ as *His* bride. Every man has a spiritual womb to bring forth the things of God in the earth. 🇨🇦
It is NOT dangerous. Like she said it resembles how Christ loves the church. It is not dangerous to be loved like that. At all. But it is challenging to you to be loved like that.
This subject is a struggle for me. For 49 years all I have heard from the pulpit is that husbands are failures, cheaters and children. My father submitted to my mother and she isolated her decision making. My childhood was a storm and I couldn’t wait to leave home.
The best thing a husband and father can do these days I guess is know their bible, become biblically literate. I guess I see my “leadership” and “chain of command” as more of a chain of responsibility that looks more up(Jesus) and not down(at my wife and kids). This could be wrong I guess as I have to find my way alone with poor biblical leaders and mentors.