How I CURRENTLY Understand The Bible Saying "Women Be Silent In The Church"
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2021
- I am totally open to changing my mind on this passage but I do currently think this is the right way to understand it and I didn't come to this opinion rashly.
My research project on the topic of women in ministry and related issues is going to start once I'm done teaching through the Gospel of Mark (probably less than two months from now) and I hope I can offer real clarity on all this stuff. I know how important the issue is and how important it is that we strip away confusion and truly follow what God is telling us.
My website BibleThinker.org
I know this topic brings up a TON of good questions but I will tackle those when I do my big teaching on everything the Bible says about women in ministry a few months from now.
• May I know if biblically, it is appropriate for women to lead parachurch organization.
• (I have heard lately that Matthew 18:20 is for church context.) What are your thoughts about it?... When it says two or three are gathered in my name. When we take 1 Corinthians 14:34-37 and 1 Timothy 2:11-14, does it apply to christian fellowships which is not a local church ???
• Is translating the preaching... towards a different language amidst church allowed according to the topic by women?
• Should women teach doctrine to women and children + boys?
• Can women train men professional or corporately?
• Apart from prayer, what should a woman who sees her husband in erroneous doctrine do ? (Even e.g. a close friend or a family member)
Good because I’m really struggling about my female pastor!
As I've understood this, it's that a woman is not to interrupt .Obviously women had prophecies and spoke them in church. So it's a certain type of speech. It is a woman to her husband perhaps combined with interruption in church. She is told to go home and ask. If I am remembering correctly, women weren't inclined to speak and question a man that wasn't their husband. I understand they are now Christian, but tradition is strong and runs deep. I Can see a Jewish woman holler at her husband. I'm not distressed if it means to be quiet. Because I know something is off, God doesn't play games of superiority between men and women, husbands and wives. †
Hi Mike 👋
Good work with your opinion and vid 👍
I am a love in Christ-ian I am guided by the Holy Spirit...
And I'm lead to share edification,
For such men who are chauvinistic
as for those who take verses out of context where such men usually falsely refer for as if all women ... " to keep silent "
The reason for such verses was for specific women to be silent in reference to 1 Timothy 4: 7 have nothing to do with /reject profanity and old wives fables ( man or woman ) who sits by, let the first keep silent.
31 For you can all > (men & women) prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all (the church's > people) of the saints.
39 Therefore brethren> (Brothers & Sisters),
desire earnestly to prophesy, ^^^
and do not forbid (any) to speak...
in tongues, of fire sent from God
...
Chivalry is wonderful
for men to protect women is righteous.
Yet , none should be following such misleading stance for any to unjustly spew stating of lowering the authority of women !!!
Almighty God guides and shares with his ordained chosen church > people those being
brethren > (brothers & sisters ) .
Men and women
If you would like to reply I will be patiently waiting to hear from you
Thank you for reading,
in the mean time
Sending ...
Lots and Love
From
Wisdom
xox 🤗 xox
...
Thanks Pastor Mike! I have been waiting for years for to do a long-form teaching on this!
As a woman the further I get in my faith journey the more beautiful I find these passages. I was taught to be a strong woman, and I believe it takes a strong woman to be a gentle, quiet spirit with self control. Women can often be argumentative and stubborn. I find myself the most at peace and close to God when I’m fulfilling the roles he sets in the Bible.
Your mind was enlightened by the Holy Spirit to grasp such things and to marvel at the beauty of God’s word
He is awesome.✝️❤️
Good for you, but you must understand not all women feel the same as you do. Not all women will be happy in a relationship where they submit to their husband.
Mega, I think you said it best. Our strength as women is to hold fast teachings of Christ. We have a larger role to fill then leading a church. We are to lead the family by nurturing them in the ways of the Lord.
As a Sunday School teacher for many years I felt my desire to be part of my Church was fulfilled by continuing to nurture young people in ways of the Lord.
Women should be submissive to their husbands. And a husband should be tender and devoted to his wife.
When it comes to submitting to a husband, I'm being very careful when choosing who I marry. I want to fill our biblical roles, so I need to choose someone fully committed to God.
Yes I must wait to find a man in 2021 to fill the role set forth in a 2000 year old book when men took virgins as sex slaves.
@@theangryape8395 lol
May god bless you
Guess what? People change throughout their life. A guy who you may be ok "submitting" to one day may not be the same guy later on. And the Bible does not permit divorce for any reason except sexual immorality. Not physical or emotional abuse or if he becomes a serial killer or anything else.
@@B.S._Lewis then it isn’t for you. You will perish with the rest
@@GhostofFranky What isn't for me? I don't even know what your talking about.
I'm a female.
I don't have a submissive personality. The way I see it, is that God's Word is His Word. I don't always agree, however, if I love Him, then I have to obey Him. I don't have to understand or agree, but I do need to obey Him...if I truly love God Almighty. My ways are not His ways.
Over 20 years ago, I heard God's voice, He said submit to your husband. I said " God, I can't do that... I'm an American. We don't submit to our husbands". I didn't do it. I heard His voice one more time. Then, He showed me how my dominant behavior would put my husband to shame in front of other men. I had never noticed it before. I love my husband, so I felt very ashamed and I didn't want that to ever happen again. Our marriage did 100 degree turnaround for the better. I now understand the importance of giving my husband his place as the head of our family. His is my covering. I'm very happy. We have to trust God. We may not understand His rules, but they are for the best.
I feel you. I'm the same way I don't have a submissive personality either. But reading the word and building my relationship better with God. I'm learning that I'm letting my pride take over instead of God's word.
When a woman preaches for me, I don't feel nothing. I can agree to somethings they say, but I feel nothing spiritual.
That's why I say everybody that's in the pulpit wasn't called by God. Because soon as you let your feelings into it, then you're not following God. The truth hurts. And this cotton candy or political correct preaching is helping to destroy the church.
I was a submissive type and then my partner was not following God and lying a lot. I called him out. He talked down to me in front of others. It turned me 180 and I spoke out because he was waiting on his living parents inheritance and not supporting me and our son. He is drama. I can't do it. I can't even be around him. He doesn't love me and I do not love him anymore. It's all fluff.
Thank you, kind sister, for sharing this beautiful experience. It is sometimes so easy to think about things from the perspective of how something/someone effects us rather than how are we effecting others. When we love someone, it means that we care about them and what we give to them much more than what we are given from them. It seems that most have chosen to forget that. WITH MUCH LOVE
No one has a submissive personality, or in the way you are describing it, would you describe your husband as having a submissive personality because Christ is his head? Or because he had to submit to church elders or the government?
Submission is not a personality, it's what you do for to help leadership in their work to safeguard the group. Both authority and those under it in a group have to play their part in safeguard and keeping watch over the group. Hebrews 13:17
@@tpham7632Hebrews 13:17 tells you what submission is to help designated leaders with their work. Their work is to keep watch over the people as they will be held accountable by God.
So ungodly and things done in personal interest by human authority is not biblically mandated. Submit to God's design when human authority isn't doing their job.
Think of your home as a little Government, and yourself a citizen. Would your husband stand for it if the government treated him as a citizen, the same way he treats you?
They know the boundaries of authority when it endangers them, but suddenly when it comes to wives and children, men and parents don't know where to draw the line anymore.
"Her submission is intentional." Man, I really love that. It adds value and makes me want to thank my wife in every instance she defers to me for leadership. I acknowledge that her 'submission' is a gift and absolutely conditional, not to be taken for granted.
No don't be just tell her shut up women😂😂
@@glitcherers8004seek Jesus and repent.
@@DivineLightPaladin u really live in ur fantasy land
@@glitcherers8004So why does it matter so much to you?
@@mogx2586 people's rights matter to me
When i was a nonbeliever I was a loud, prideful, obnoxious woman. I wish i was born with the knowledge that silence is powerful. Silent can stop a fight in its tracks. Silence can save a marriage or a friendship or even your job or your life. Silence is a true gift. controlling our tongues is wise and takes a lot of self discipline
So can speaking up.
Well said, sister DT. "If anyone can control the tongue, that one is perfect..."
@@nedson6503 Yes. But when it’s appropriate. That’s also hard to do!!
Silence has also led to multiple abuses in the Church, because "women cannot question the men."
@@TheExpressionaire Sister Sarah, excellent point!!! If we had an Apostle here to make final pronouncements, then I say let the women learn from their husbands. But in the contemporary American Neo-Calvinist Congregationalist Evangelical Pastor-dominant Church model, I say let ANYONE who knows better than the Pastor stand UP.
Hey just wanted to say that I owe you an apology.....I was a Jehovah Witness for 30 years, I'm out now. I struggle with being "judgemental" from being in a cult, a few videos ago, I cast you off as an "idiot" for something you said. I was WRONG!!!!!! I AM SORRY FOR THINKING THAT IN MY HEART. I actually like you and Leighton Flowers the most, I appreciate your hard work you put into your videos, I am learning a lot and hopefully will grow in understanding the gospel. Your videos help me. God bless you and your ministry.
God bless you💕
@Leah Praise God, sister! Thank you for openly sharing. I'm Pastor Mike's assistant and I'll send him your message directly so that he sees it. ❤️
Aww Leah that's so beautiful praise God for His steadfast love for you xox I love hearing these testimonies. And God will use your JW past for His glory you wait and see 😁You'll have a bit of a challenge with the mind. But do not worry! Just keep turning toward Christ and the Holy Spirit and He'll teach you all things. Don't worry if you don't understand it all now just keep washing your mind with His word and know you're in the palm of His Wonderful Hands.God bless you x 👏🌈❤️🙌
Sister Leah, good word of repentance, God love you, and remember to go EASY on yourself. There's grief, there's anger. 30 years is a life sentence. Support those who struggle. Find any common ground. They name the name of Jesus, at least many do. Your experience will be of great use to the Kingdom and the Lord will use you to destroy the wall of partisanship. You are a HOLY of HOLIES woman of God.
@meaningless me He's not able to respond to all of the comments, as we receive thousands, but he did see Leah's. I'm his assistant and I sent it to him directly. He was very grateful and said, "That's wonderful! So happy for Leah!"
Before I met my wife, 40+ years ago, she was a horribly battered "wife" as were her 2 kids that I later adopted. To submit to him would be insanity and it nearly destroyed our kids. Both now, as adults, have PTSD from the trauma of seeing their mother beaten repeatedly...they fear most "authority" but learned a different love and leadership from me...refuse to see or communicate with their bio-dad. The ex has now even done prison time for beating his 2nd wife and recently tried to kill her. We have to discern and not blindly obey when something seem a bit out of balance. One size doesn't always fit all.
The command is to submit to husbands “as to the Lord.” She would have no obligation to submit to anything abusive, unlawful, ungodly or that would endanger her children.
I once attended a church that took this verse quite literally. Women were not allowed to give a testimony or even pray aloud. They could only sing, and speaking was only allowed after the service was officially over. Churches really need a biblical interpretation of these verses if they are to successfully represent Christ in their treatment of women.
Well, according to the Bible, men are to be dominant.
I remember sharing my thoughts concerns and opinions when I would go to Bible study at a new church I attended and I would get stared down and the teacher would ignore me.
When any the men talked there was interaction but never me.
Needless to say they devalued women and their input.
Left
Why do you try to secularise Churches?
That sounds like such an awesome church.
@@sovl2178troll
The enemy preys on our weaknesses. Pride being the first.
My grandfather was a humble man that loved and trusted Christ above all. Because of this, he was the wisest man I have ever encountered in this physical life.
He valued my grandmother’s opinions and strengths. He trusted her with those things he saw she was good at. He had no problems giving her his entire paycheck for her to manage. She made excellent and wise decisions with that money. I won’t go into the details but she brought the entire family very far.
On the other hand, my grandfather would intercede and correct her when she did something he knew wasn’t the best way to deal with something.
I never heard them argue in my life. He was never threatened by allowing her to have a voice or to contribute.
I run into Christian men these days that are so pride filled that they believe that their wife needs to be silent and listen to them on everything. That devalues the wife and shows that he does not submit himself to the wisdom of our Father.
Yup! This is why dialogue is great. (Like maybe we should take women’s interpretations of prophecy and … their opinions in church matters and stuff into account)
Definitely like do dialogue tho and don’t just let 1 person make all the choices. A healthy relationship happens when people make choices together, occasionally with compromise as needed. 😊
I think in the home, it's a different story but in my humble opinion.. if we are to observe a proper church decorum, it's best to follow what the bible says..
@@Habanera1986 good point Sir, but rule is a rule, everyone must submit to it.. yes King's wife might be very high minded, but for sure she is not smarter than the omniscient God who made such mandate.. and also, nobody said, women cannot speak or they must not have a voice or say in anything, yes they can, in fact it's only in the CHURCH women are to keep silent.. other places they can do whatever they want provided it they don't violate good morals.
I mostly see women that want to domineer their husbands.
@@Habanera1986 Sorry Mam...well, if you find any good info about the subject please do mention me, it will really be interesting..God bless you..
Great answer, Mike. Looking forward to your upcoming teaching on this...
Me too!!
Alisa you have some really great videos too! I appreciate what you out forth
Me too!
Alisa Childers, for the Biblical truth, see my reply to Mike.
Alisa, and my other brothers and sisters who are also looking forward to this teaching - let’s uphold Mike in prayer as he prepares for this important teaching. I’m greatly moved by God to pray for him on this matter. God bless 😊💕
I happened to stumble onto this video in 2024, and I'm so happy I did! I'll never forget the time I heard a preacher say women should not speak in the church. I was a teen at the time. I looked at my dad, and he said I know, we will talk after. And this being in the Bible has been something in the back of my mind. (I've also seen stuff online saying that there are no women in Heaven bc it says we will be like Christ was when he was resurrected.) And honestly, I decided that I don't have the need to speak in the church, but I also have not been at a church sermon in a very long time and planning to find one in the town I live in. But, also, I've been watching the Chosen and see that women were very important. And that maybe the speaking in church was bc women just had a different role in the church, like teaching Bible school, or perhaps it's helping care for the babies and children bc it comes natural to us usually. Hearing this explanation does not make me feel remotely oppressed. The concern of making women feel less than bc of the text of the Bible feels like it's done a greater disservice to women overall. Being mothers and all the great things about how we are naturally is being watered down, and it does not appear that is making things better. But it does make total sense to not start interrogating or questioning during church. I an attempt to keep this under novel length, thank you for this explanation!
You're assuming everyone is married
The Chosen seems to be putting words into Jesus' mouth and adding certain personailties to the apostles which is disturbing to me and yet I've heard that the show has strengthened other's faith.
@@DreamingDarlin adding personality and storylines to the apostles does NOT CHANGE the gospel one bit
@destinycoach5 I agree. Actually, showing the everyday human side, with different personalities and issues makes it easier to relate to. The gospel doesn't change if a character that is based on a real person has little quirks here and there. That's what brings people in, looking at imperfect people just like us.
@@danarn209 I agree with the added back stories of disciples otherwise there would be no story here. We've seen disciples in other Jesus movies and they are nearly scenery. There has to be creative license taken and at least Dallas has used Jewish historians for accuracy on 1st cent Israel and how their jobs would be done.
I also love that we get to SEE the Jewish culture and feasts and the way synagogues were run for this also makes that world more real to us and Jesus was an OT Jew and was immersed in the culture. So it's good to see.
Having said that ... I have warned since day 1 that we will see more and more things off scripture because of the Mormon influence. Like Jesus said I AM THE LAW OF MOSES. He DIDNT say that and this is a Mormon belief.
But the Things Jesus says will be more blasphemous as show goes on.
But the thing he does now that drives me absolutely nuts is his hand signals. They are most obviously of the secret society knights templer. When he is talking about 'his Father' he points to the sky using 1 or 2 fingers. This is baphomet!!!! Baphomet has one hand with 2 fingers pointing up and other down. The show did it on the Sermon and many times in his private conversation with disciples
I HATE it so much!!!!
You’re encouraging me to “study “ more…as if I need more reasons…but thank you…for that and your ministry. We need you here…
I am a woman and in no way did I find this offensive. Right on Mike Winger!
Do you find sex traffickiing offensive? I hope so because I am finding that is in the church as well. God is exposing this awful stuff.
I don't want the job of preaching, but my mother-in-law was called to preach. This was years and years ago. In East Texas. She refused to preach because people did not want her to. She became bedridden with illness and God told her He would heal her but He said He wanted her to preach. She finally obeyed and her husband put her in a wagon and took her to a school house where she was to preach. God restored her health. But only after she obeyed Him -- not people, not men who told her not to preach. That is why I stand for anyone obeying God. I have the scriptures for it: Joel 2:28 and Acts 2:15. We ought to obey God rather than man.
@@patmelton43 everyone here agrees that sex trafficking is awful and we would wholeheartedly condemn it.
@@jennprescott2757 Glad to hear that. I am zealous to bring these terrible crimes to light.
@@patmelton43 definitely!! In what ways are you involved in doing that? Would love to be more involved as well!
We as followers of CHRIST need to know that GOD overall is the head of the household and when their is a decision that needs to be made, we as men need to go to CHRIST with it at all times. If the head of the household is not grounded in CHRIST, it can cripple the family.
Very true, I find Mikes view there a bit bad actually, and I hardly ever disagree with him. What if a man decides to force his kids to eat vegan but the mother wants them to eat animal products if they want? That’s not something that the dad alone should be able to decide.
Mike didn’t say the the woman had no input in decisions . In a Godly marriage you talk thing over together the woman has her say, a loving man will weigh up what she say before he makes the final decision .
@@dianeovenden That’s just it, when it comes to diet the man doesn’t get the final decision, that’s something that requires mutual compromise, if my dad tries to make me vegan it just wouldn’t happen lol. Veganism is not healthy for anyone but especially not children and teens, so in all honestly if a mother was against it, she’d be she’d be right. Veganism is not legal for children in Italy for a reason. Now I’m not saying men shouldn’t lead just that some things are a matter at a compromise.
@@justchilling704 just to let you know I have been vegan for 11 years and I’m very healthy. I believe you have to do your homework when changing your diet to a vegan one so it is healthy. It’s unhealthy if you eat junk food.
You can talk to your parents if your worried.
I think if your mum is the main cook she cook add vegan meals into the week for your dad but for you just add some meat on the side.
I don’t cook meat but my husband does, so my husband eats and loves what I cook. but if he cooks he will cook meat and a veggie meal
Cite your scripture
Thank you for this lovely and gentle exegesis. It’s been a journey for me to obey God and understand submission. His ways are always the best ways.
Mr. Winger, thank you for the analysis and proper tone. You are one of few that cares enough to do that. Thank you again.
Has anyone looked at this passage from the point of view of the husband? Specifically, why is it that Paul says the woman is supposed to ask her HUSBAND at home? If the husband is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household, and yet is failing in that duty, and the wife is left needing to ask questions in the Church, then how does that reflect on his performing his assigned role? I think this passage is in part at least intending to reaffirm the role of the husband and to hold him accountable for being the spiritual head of the household. If the husband is truly submitted to Christ, and is truly feeding himself, when the wife has questions she ought to be able to go to her husband and ask, outside of the service. And if the husband can’t answer, he can go to the elders and teachers for clarification. Doing all of this in front of the whole church short circuits that whole process, and does not let the husband grow in his role or learning or knowledge or leadership.
Great point! Hadn’t considered that but clearly this is the implied reason for the public silence
Love this point of view. I agree!
That is very well said. That's actually the best answer I've heard. Makes the most sense across all generations too. The Bible has answers for any period of time. So when I come across some of these explanations it usually only works for one period of time and I'm left wondering. But your explanation is spot on for both then and now.
That makes sense to me
If married women are to keep silent with their questions in church so as not to embarrass their husbands among the congregation, when will the husband ever be held accountable for this failure? If married women must defer to their husband, and their husband never grows in the faith enough to teach sound doctrine, is the wife supposed to be left without knowing sound doctrine and no recourse? Married women should encourage and respect their husbands, yes and should not embarrass them publicly. But what would happen in the church if MEN took their role as spiritual leader in their homes seriously enough to truly lead, instead of what looks to be blaming their wives for public embarrassment for their genuine lack of leadership. So this seems backwards a bit. Also, are single women allowed to ask questions? I only see this verse referring to married women.
Having gone the way of a "strong woman" as defined by society and walked the Biblical role of a woman it's clear to me that we have undervalued the Biblical role of women and womanhood.
Our strength and value as women is degraded when we define it against manhood or frame it as needing to be the same as men.
Womanhood is amazing yet we loose it's meaning away from God's wisdom in it's design to the point when now all one needs to be a woman is a dress and makeup.
Jesus submitted, was he less valuable or weaker for doing so?
Thank you jesus! Wow!
Wow
Thankyou for sharing your personal testimony of what Yeshua [Jesus] has and is accomplishing in your life.
I want to encourage you to continue to be a voice in the wilderness.
So many still need to hear the true Gospel - the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven [Rev 21:4] that they might come to the full understanding and knowledge of the YHWH [God's] eternal plan of redemption....this is the mystery and why it has been held back - including Israel's [YHWH's "chosen" people - Deut 7] "failure" - Eph 3.
The New Covenant will usher in the New Kingdom, however for today and right now, that is a lot for most believers let alone unbelievers to comprehend....
And so the lost need testimonies [like yours] of the saving work of the atonement - to come to see that true righteousness, true holiness, true faithfulness can only be found in Yeshua...
Continue to LOVE [yes its an action - verb] with meekness and gentleness and know that the power and authority lies in the one who is in you...
Shalom
Jesus submitted to God! Women can’t simply just submit to men who are unworthy. Makes no sense.
I have a hard time understanding this, aren’t men and women creations of God? Why can’t we both submit to God. The moment we say things like submit to a fellow creation (men), that creation (men) is superior?
Humbling and submission to god is beautiful. To men? I’d like to be seen as equal to men, compatible to be say the least! We are different but not lesser.
Sorry I’m having a hard time coming to terms with this. Help
Biblical woman are strong not weak like society paints it to be, kindness is strong
This is a difficult topic. I lived this out married to a pastor for 29 years. He was mentally unstable and had drug and alcohol addiction. It was drilled into me that you don’t talk badly about your husband to others, so I didn’t tell. Letting him “have the final say” led to financial disaster and much instability. We are now divorced and he is in jail. Our daughters are now staunchly feminist because of what they experienced. Thankfully, they haven’t turned from God. I’m trying to find the truth on this issue to teach my children what is right, apart from the wrong I know we were living under.
I’m so sorry you and your daughters went through that. Growing up, I attended a church that allowed that sort of thing to go unchecked. I believe a lot of the advice in conservative churches right now is more of a reaction against feminism rather than a true seeking of wisdom.
If you are interested I’d highly recommend Elyse Fitzpatrick’s book “Worthy” and you tubes by Sheila Gregoire. These ladies are very interested ladies in being faithful to the Bible. I believe they give a more Biblical view of womanhood. Totally get your daughters’ reactions.
@Morgan Hill being a feminist mean wanting equality between men and women as far as i know there is nothing wrong with that
In no way am I going to submit to my husband if what he is doing is unbiblical. We discuss things equally and in the end, if neither of our opinions aren’t unbiblical, then we go with my hubby’s choices. If a church is teaching a woman to submit to an unhealthy, abusive, man, then they are wrong.
You should only submit to your husband if Christ is his head, if he is submissive to Christ. If your husband is not in full submission to Christ cause God is love then your submission to him will be in vain and you would be setting yourself up for abuse. We wife's also should use wisdom when choosing a Godly husband also if you ended up marrying an unbeliever be gentle with love and temperance (a type of submission) to win him over to Christ then by his fruits you may fully submit likewise he should also be submissive to you.
@@chantalwilliams41 your husband is Christian or not
Thank you for speaking the truth pastor Mike. I'm moved by all the godly women in the comments who have shared their experiences. Praise God.
Having a godly man that honors and loves you as Christ loves the church to lead you...what a beautiful, wonderful thing. Takes a lot of undue pressure out of us women. Less stress...a wonderful thing indeed.
I can only fall and be in love of a woman unless u a deep emotional and friendship bond with her after I known her for a while
That's the key
And the woman can use her kindness and skills to strengthen her family 🤗
Actually i find it interesting and of you notice both Peter and Paul always start out addressing the wives first! In the passages about marriage. I find this unusual. There must be a reasoning behind it.
Nope... guys need to be in a responsible position in order to grow up otherwise it simply does not happen... that is the point. To the same degree, women need to learn how to be a team player with her husband and everyone else because by nature women are not good at comradery. These are the only reasons why these roles make sense isn't because one is more important than the other but that both sides need to grow up and work together.
As a woman prior to becoming a Christian I would of found this offensive but I don't now as the Word of God is the Word of God even if I don't agree or fully understand it. I've no problems with women not being preachers as I believe God set the order Adam then Eve. I'm sure this is a difficult topic to teach on but let us remember there are many other way to serve God and others. God bless from Dublin, Ireland 🇮🇪
@Paddy Singh Will do thank you. Are you Irish too, well your first name sounds Irish 🤔😉.
I know women who were literally forced by God to preach. My husband's mother for one. She was sick in bed and God commanded her to preach and once she was persuaded to do so, God healed her. There is scripture to support this: Acts 2:15 and Joel 2:28.
@@patmelton43 you’re mentioning verses about prophesy. Prophesy and the pastoral role are entirely different gifts. Gods Word is clear that women should not be lead pastors and He will not contradict his Word if we truly believe it is inerrant
@Paddy Singh yes, and ?
Its actually not anti women. Read it in context.
This verse is not talking about women not to preach in church. It is talking about how married women are to behave in church. For those who jump on this verse to preach that women are not supposed to speak who will the unmarried women speak to at home. Married women subject themselves to their husbands.
This was explained to me that women did not sit with their husbands in church. When a woman had a question she would yell the question across the church causing disruption. Therefore women were told to be quiet in church and take the question home and discuss it with her husband not disrupting the service.
I’m so glad you said this because I was wondering what the context was. Context matters.
I’ve heard that too but haven’t seen any evidence for it. You got any evidence?
It seems to me that Paul woudn’t of written it the way he did if he meant “don’t call out in church and disrupt it.”
I agree. You have to take in culture /society back then and then draw out the spiritual truth that Paul or other is trying to get across.
The letter of the law kills but the Spirit gives life
@ZandJ12345 I don't currently have evidence but you can bet I am researching it. 🙂
@@ZandJ12345 Search online for the article, "The Early Church Tradition of Separate Seating: Ancient Practice, Not a Cultural Anomaly" Separate seating for men and women, as a sign of chastity, was a common Jewish practice long before Christianity and this practice was carried over into Christianity.
If I look at what that verse says, just my perception as a woman, when it says this, means that men should sharpen up their knowledge of the Word, so that woman and children can feel protected by the husband and father by answering their questions in the context of the Word. Men submit themselves to God and women to their husbands, which is also a submission to God. I believe that if we got this right from the start, more children would have had the ⚓ of a father figure in this day and age. Every word in the Bible is for edification of the church, otherwise the Word could have been chopped and changed any which way and we know how that can end. Just my own thoughts on this. ❤️
Was Deuteronomy 6 given to the mother or to the father?
Well argued, sister Lulu. Amazing how good of a teacher you are! I'm glad you didn't keep that to yourself. Keep sharing. The Church is now out in the open, no longer confined to the Synagogue!
@@MyLearner1 To all ancient Isreal, males and females. The one who is asked to submit MUST have faith in the other, including in their decision making capabilites.
If you look at genesis, you can clearly see that GOD COMMANDED ABRAHAM TO LISTEN TO HIS WIFE AND DO WHAT SHE SAYS BECAUSE SHE WAS A GREATER PROPHET THAN ABRAHAM.
@@mathewjose4753 IN what scripture?
I love that you take on such difficult passages and don’t try to candy coat it. Thank you for all your effort!
Context is so important, as is taking the Bible as a whole. This explanation is so refreshing and so needed. Thank you.
I was in the Navy. Could you imagine if one of us sailors questioned and probed the Captain as he was addressing the crew and giving orders? Submitting is a process of order and discipline that is necessary for cohesion. The military needs it, businesses need it, families need it, and churches need it.
The best part about this comment is that the word for submit IS referring to the military sense, both in this passage and in the infamous "Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord" passage. Often missed. A captain is only greater than a sergeant in role. Both are humans equal in essence. And if a CO treats his men like garbage, well, we would say that's a bad CO.
@Loving one another finally someone who isn't brainwashed. These people are literally telling me it's harder for women to make decisions so they should let the man do it like what????
The difference with the analogy Taripar is this, women can be captains and men can be sergeants. According to the Bible women are never allowed to teach men, there is a lack of opportunity. How you define equality is important.
@@doubtingthomas4335
Except…. You’re wrong. There was a woman apostle and Paul clearly recognized women prophesying in the church. You obviously didn’t watch Mike Winger explain women being church leaders in the video.
@@defiance1790 1Tim 2:11-12. Then there is contradiction in the Bible
That was so well done and thoughtful! You are truly a gift to us Mike!
Thanks guys. This was an eye opener because I've pondered over that scripture for years...
'Read it in context!'. So good. And what a lovely, gracious spirit you have sir.
Almost at 300k! Incredible what God’s doing through this ministry
This is exactly what is needed.
Woo! Whooo!
Are many followers an indication that real service is taking place?
@@MyLearner1 I would say so! It’s a possible indication but not a necessary one.
🤢🤮
I preached a sermon on this passage a few years ago called “The Silence of the Ma’ams”; lol.
Not added, as far as I can see. I suggest that 34-35 MAY be language borrowed from Paul’s opponents (as he does throughout I Corinthians). This does not help us with I Timothy 2:12, which is a whole different thing, but - as Mike points out - Paul is clearly OK with women prophesying, etc.
Hahahaha that sounds good! How'd it go?
The Silence of the Ma'ams - Rabbinical Lecture (Hannibal Lecter) 😂
My congregation was patient with me; lol. I have folks on both sides of this issue, so I wasn’t going to hit a home run in any event. I was pleasantly surprised by how little blowback I got.
@@robprice8509 that's awesome! I pray that you continue to serve the Lord diligently and that He, by the power of His Holy Spirit, enlightens the eyes of your heart to the truth of Him (Ephesians 1:13-14). Take care, brother ❤
This is the most I've ever understood about this passage. Thank you!
Thank you for that explanation of this verse. I've had many people ask about this topic and you have given a great and detailed explanation.
Thank you, Mike, for always standing for biblical truth even when it is counter to present day culture/societal beliefs.
Amen Amen
People who want to disagree with the word of God will always find a way to do so. I did so for years!
I still do it sometimes, mostly using rationalizations. And I find it abhorrent afterwards.
It's refreshing that yall can see that, like many people don't admit that they have done this after they came to Christ.
Bible worshiping I'd idol worship.
Simple solution...don't go to church. Most of them are just manmade businesses anyways.
what a beautiful testimony. we are all guilty of that, it takes a strong and sincere spirit to recognize that.
Great to see this verse looked at with some context to it as it’s been one of the most controversial for decades. I was taught this some 25 years ago
GREAT ENDING!!! 👏🏻👏🏻🎉💕 I am new to your channel and I just want to say I am rejoice to see such love, truth, humbleness, yet boldness in your videos! May the Lord keep blessing you with even more wisdom.
Although as a wife and believer of nearly 50 years I’ve never had a problem with those verses, you’ve helped me to actually understand them and now to be equipped to explain the principles to someone who may truly be struggling with them. Thanks so much for your thoughtful and enlightened (by the Holy Spirit) explanation of this passage.
Hey dear how are you doing!! I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?
I can't wait to hear your in depth discussion on this! Thank you for what you do 🤍
Hey I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?
Tough crowd to preach to. Winger teaches and replies with truth, humility, and grace! Kudos.
Well put and well said. Thanks for sharing the truth and always doing your homework to present it.
The first time I read these verses (and other verses about the roles of men and women) I was offended. I only came to Christ and started reading the bible a year ago, and I really didn't know what to make of it. I knew Christianity was true, but I had serious doubts about these verses and didn't know what to do. I prayed about it for a few days, asking God to help me. And He did! One morning I woke up, feeling totally at peace and accepting these verses. I'm not offended anymore by the different roles of men and women and God did another amazing job changing my heart.
Excellent teaching, sister C82, (year of the dog, btw, loyalty!). Here in the CZcams arena, where two or three thousand are gathered together, amen?
I bless you and your household of faith with revelation and peace and joy and healing and every good thing in Christ Jesus according to this promise of His holy word:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you AND your house." (Acts 16:31)
(Remember the Passover. The Lord will give you wisdom, which is your gift, btw.)
Wow awesome. If the Holy spirit changes us we will accept his word.
I'm really eagerly looking forward to your big teaching on this, Mike! My mom and I have been discussing this quite a bit recently, so I'm looking forward to learning more!
Post the scripture that says heathen are to teach or preach the word of God - ill wait
Andrew Schroeder, for the Biblical truth, see my reply to Mike.
@@jimclaven8389 Depends on what you mean by "heathen." Some use the term as a translation of "goy," the nations (other than the genetic descendants of Israel). If that's what you mean, I can show you quite a few scriptures specifically saying that the message would be preached to all the nations/heathen.
If, by "heathen" you mean people who believe in other gods... that I'd generally agree with you. However, others WERE given legitimate prophecy. God gave the Egyptian Pharoh the dream. Joseph just interpreted it. God gave the Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar the dream. Daniel just interpreted it. The Persian Zoroastrian king Cyrus defeated Babylon, brought Israel back to their land, and funded the building of the temple Nebuchadnezzar had destroyed and restoration of all of the items he had taken... which is one reason the bible explicitly states that God stirred up Cyrus's heart and used him, and refers to Cyrus as a "messiah." (Not THE messiah, but an ordained king used by God to save his people). So, sure, even heathen can be used by God to some extent (whether they're willing or not).
What's the context of that statement, Jim?
Howdy - the Bible teaches that men are more VALUABLE.
@MikeWinger. Something I noticed from this: I don't think Paul is unaware of the controversy, as he supports his instruction with a deeper theological point in scripture - which I note you missed.
In 1 Timothy 2:13-14 it says, "For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." Which is of course a reference to the fall in Genesis 3. With this reference Paul is alluding to those events, and by emphasizing the fact that Eve was deceived - whilst Adam was not - there seems to be a generally applicable point here.
The bigger theological point I think Paul is alluding to, is the strategy of Satan (or the serpent's tempting) in approaching the woman. He is I think also referring to the respective differences between Adam's and Eve's modes of sin and seeking to make general application to the ways in which Men and Women, generally, sin.
The key takeaway points are as follows:
1. The man (Adam) knew what he was good; but failed to do it.
2. The woman (Eve) was deceived - and her attempts to good resulted in evil; because she didn't know that good was.
3. The serpent, being crafty - deliberately targeted a point of weakness. Which in this case, was the woman's fragility to deception.
On these points, I think Paul is being soberly critical of both men and women - and when we test this with our experience of human nature, it does hold true. Women, generally speaking, fall for causes, and are thus driven to sin by FOLLY. Men, (though not being immune to deception), would not seem to require deception to sin. In essence, men sin because they decline to act as men. The sin of Adam was that of inaction. Men are LAZY.
Thus, God's instruction - given through Paul - is for men to stop being lazy, grow a spine, and exercise their God-given responsibility to lead. His instruction to women is support their men, and live in harmony... Women do indeed have great capacity for good and can be beacons of light in this world. And thus have a critical role to play in ministry - but this can only be realized when lived in submission to God's wisdom.
Mike.. I struggled with this for years. I recently heard a sermon that helped me with this passage so much! It’s obvious that Paul was not against women speaking in church from other passages ..so why the abrupt flip (so it would seem)? We need to remember that these letters are a response from Paul to the Corinthians from letters they sent to Paul (that we don’t have) challenging his authority, how the church was supposed to be run, their debating on what does and doesn’t make someone spiritual etc.. the entirety of these letters are Paul’s response to their debates. If we look at this passage from the lens that Paul was quoting back to them the question/comment posed to him and responding to that notion (of women being quiet etc) with sarcasm and rebuke.. “the women should keep quiet in the churches for they are not authorized …as the law says”??!! if we keep reading into vs 36 Paul says WHAT! Did the word of the lord originate with you?!
He’s being sarcastic in response to the argument the Corinthians we’re having over this topic.
This is the best answer I’ve heard in relation to this text. Thank you Mike!
Mike, you’re the man! Always preaching/teaching in such a balanced way. Rightly diving the word of truth! Praise God brother!
Post the scripture that days heathen like mike are to teach or preach the word of God - ill wait
Appreciate your straightforward approach to the Word. It is simply roles that are assigned, and it is not about his or her worth or status.
From some of the things I've read about this, the "keeping silent in church" had more to do with social chatting, gossiping, or catching up with friends during a church service. It definitely has to read within context of the time frame, there were probably things happening at the time that we may not be familiar with. One book I read framed the scripture about adornment in the cultural and social context of the time that some early Christians were using home-church time as social time versus church time and the women were dressing up a lot to show social status during their home-church meetings. Lots to think about!
false doctrine, it doesn't say let them not chat, it clearly says let them not S P E A K which is a correct translation of the greek word LALEO
Leave it to a woman to not understand plain text. It means SHUT UP when in church.
@@stonewallis4373 unlike that don’t you?pervert
Steven Williams… no need to be so abrasive. There are people who have different perspectives than you. It’s okay. Women have their role so do we. Behaving like a Neanderthal is not it though. You’re response is why everyone believe Christians to be misogynist jerks. Clearly in other places in scripture there are women who are elders/prophesying. In fact one the first people to go and share the gospel is the woman at the well. So they have no place to speak? I disagree.
@@stonewallis4373 "Leave it to a women".... VERY condescending/toxic statement.
Thank you for speaking truth to our culture. As a woman I agree with you 100%! God loves women and He is so kind to us! My husband loves me and is kind to me too. He makes the final decision and I’m thankful that he does!
You both are blessed-- I am treaded harshly with the utmost distain but he’s quite successful in everything he does -- work, friends, church, everyone thinks he’s wonderful 😢
I’m sorry for you. God is not fooled. He knows the truth even when others are taken in.
@@cindynzjscott9913
Yes you are correct!
He sees ❤️ hearts like we see faces .
The impact of living with a “King Saul” has been difficult to endure- I am not even close to being as strong as David was.
But I can pray his 35th Psalm 💞
People look at the scripture from a physical standpoint rather then diving in using the Holy Spirit allowing the spirit to open our eyes in a way we never knew it could. When God said to be head of her it doesnt mean be her boss and push her around or have authority, true authority rightly belong to our God because his laws are of love and for us not against us. It actually means to submit himself to her as she submits back. The scripture says to submit yourself to one another in love. The same goes in marriage. God is saying because she is smaller watch over her go head before her protecting her and loving her. We are to put on the fruits of the spirit men and women regardless we are to learn to be as Jesus Christ was which is the fruit of the spirit and in him there was neither male or female. God favors no one. Loves all of us the same he balanced us out in his church but no one is less because of such. God wants mankind to learn to be love and fallow him satan is selfish and wants power and all authority to be his so be very careful men how you take this in! It’s only a place of service not selfishness it isn’t anything to do with us but the God who loves us it’s to learn to walk out of selfishness and pride as well as an ego heart into service men and women should always make the decision final as one unit ❤️ and always put God in the middle of that relationship
Why does he make the final decision? Are you not capable of making that decision for yourself?
Beautifully and masterfully and humbly expounded on by Brother Mike. God bless you and your house.
😊as a strong prophetic woman, this was one of the best explanations I've heard. There is excellent protection having men cover us in the places where women are vulnerable. Thanks Mike
Egalitarianism does not mean “sameness in every regard.” Maybe someone would say that. But, I find myself more egalitarian and I would never say “sameness.” I would say equal, but different. I would also say the Bible was written addressing specific issues and in a society that devalued women. We have to read the scriptures humble and sensitive to that. There is a created order. Man came first. And, then woman. But, also in God’s created order: All humanity (men included) comes from woman. It is inauthentic to not acknowledge this reciprocal. Equal, but different. Man and woman exist in a symbiotic way in God’s created order. Equal, but different. Hence, why I have become more egalitarian. I think when we do come across these scriptures, we have to dig deep into the immediate context, into the context of God’s entire inerrant Word, and into the culture in which it was written. We also have to be humble enough to be wrong. Thankfully, our salvation is not dependent on anything except for the perfect sacrifice of Jesus.
Well said
But your definition of "egalitarianism" meets the description of complementarian....
I've always identified myself as an egalitarian but hearing Mike's description convinced me that my values are actually complementarian, I have just been using the wrong adjective for it.
egalitarianism seems to be that women and men are different sexes but can hold the same roles - be it housemaker, have careers, etc.
Complementarian - women and men have different roles and equally valued.
Complementarianism is, by definition, different but equal. When speaking in terms of the church and Christian theology, egalitarianism is referring to the theological position that men and women have no differences, specifically in regard to their holding of roles. It’s not the same as the word egalitarian which means equal. Complementarian is referring to the theological position that men and women are equal in value and essence, but that there IS a difference in roles especially within church leadership.
@Loving one another I’m sorry if my comment offended or upset you in any way, that was not my intention at all. I was simply trying to explain the difference between 2 Christian theological terms to a fellow believer. I’m having difficulty in trying to write a reply to your message, as I didn’t say or even imply any of the things that you wrote. I did not say women are feeling entitled, and I don’t see how what I said would hurt women at all, unless misused by someone with a desire to put women down. I don’t believe I spoke for women or claimed to, nor did I say that the difference in roles was for women to be subservient and men dominant, I simply stayed there was a difference in roles. In Christianity we are all called to serve each other and see the needs of others as more important than our needs, regardless of gender. Again, I’m sorry if my comment made you upset in any way, but I did not say or imply any of the things you have accused me of. I would love to continue a discussion with you about this topic, but if you’re going to insult me and put words into my comments, then I don’t think that benefits anyone.
@Nicole Lakra So you're a complimentarian.
I don't think you could possibly reconcile 21st century feminist beliefs with Christian beliefs
No chance!!!
You can't even reconcile 21st century feminism with 20th century feminism
@@bufficliff8978 yup definitely true. At first I was just going to say "feminism" but thats too broad of a term. 20th century feminism I'd get behind, but not 21st century feminism
@@apracity7672 after reading The Boy Crisis it made me question how much of 20th century feminism I'm for. I'm not against all of it, but mug of it has really done a lot of damage on our society. I say this as a woman.
@Loving one another there is no sky daddy. You make a charicature of God that doesnt even make any sense. God isnt in the sky lol.
God is a spirit. Not a bodily being.
Thank you brothers for humbly addrresing a tough passage.
Mike, I enjoyed the video and perspective. I learned something new about the use of the Greek word for "silence"!
For others reading, when approaching a controversial or unclear topic, I have found it helpful to take a wider survey of Scripture. The only two passages that mention "silence" for women in church are 1 Corinthians 14 (discussed here) and 1 Timothy 2. In both passages the term "learning" is mentioned. That is a clue! With both contexts applied, it seems that the early church had a system of order that was different than contemporary churches, in which there was an open forum of dialogue in the meetings so that the Spirit could unveil the truth from different perspectives of teachers and prophets. Throughout this the men were called to judge the things that were said, but the women were to judge in their hearts and discuss their thoughts in private... This does fit with a complementarian view that the woman could help her husband's leadership by asking good questions and suggesting different perspectives on issues but in the appropriate privacy of home...
I’m a strong female and I’m cool with it.
Like paul said you’re missing it if offense is
a females take on it. Get over it. We all have roles. Do your duty. We are bondservants
of Christ. Period. Get over your feelings.
Jesus held women as equals in EVERY WAY.
Thank you Mike for having a spine and sticking
to scripture instead of always worrying if women or men will be offended. If someone
is offended by the word of God that’s between
their heart and God. Doesn’t change his word.
Correct me if I’m wrong but as a strong and independent female, doesn’t that just encourage you to find an even more strong and independent man? I’ve noticed, Women who have this kind of strength typically find a man who complements their own strength and that they can respect and submit to even more. They end up becoming an amazing power couple that even other men feel blessed when under a business-like authority of the wife.
There are many female prophets in the Bible and one of them was even greater than Abraham himself.
That is enough to prove that God also wants Women to participate major roles in the Church
@@mathewjose4753 except the role of a Pastor/Bishop
Oh he did?
Says the religion that has had to be fought every step of the way to gain any advancement for women and whose hierarchy consists of only those among us with testicles.
I think it is so important for women to let go of the cultural view of what is good and appropriate for us. When we look at verses like this from the perspective of the world, our first instinct is to be offended.
Well I suppose as myself .. my perspective is I see being a slave. To these beings I have nothing in common with. What so ever.
Added; cause I watched the rest, if you truly use discernment, then what you said at the end makes sense, I don’t know how to fix it, and that’s where discernment kicks out (and the human aspect) and God kicks in, and shows you once again, where you need to go, what you need to learn, read, and have faith in. It’s just one big stone step after another. Bless you guys for doing this! ❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏✌️✌️✌️🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
Another great vid. Thnk u Mike 4 all u do. ❤
Great discussion. Thanks to all 3 of you.
Wow, that was awesome.💯👍 I agree with Pastor Mike. Very well said, very well handled👌 TY so much! God bless you!🙏💛☺️
This is the best explanation I've heard! And after looking at the page myself, it fits! I am not done in my search for answers on such topics, but this is the most valid understanding of this passage I've ever heard!
Help me out please, because I’m still confused
@@Jhart44 Right. It's clear but I don't see much logic in it.
I do this all the time, i keep silent when i hear something that is off or different theologies, i just pray it to Jesus and not fuss it out by arguing with people, YES it is freeing to keep silent about personal things in church as a girl 🤗💖
It sounded like Mike Winger was talking about testing prophesy. I think that you might be taking it beyond that meaning. Keep in mind that the Bible also lays out how to resolve an offense in the church, and I don't think that one was gendered. If something seems off about someone's theology, that might fit better under that. Sorry I can't recall the verse off the top of my head.
So, I always wanted clarification on this scripture ( 1 Corinthians 14:34-35) as well and Mike Winger did a terrific job explaining it. I have quite a few different bible translations and wanted to see if anyone of them was written with a bit more clarity.
We know there were women who prophesied in church, so trying to understand what these verses meant without being contradictory…
Some Bibles will have titles beginning the passages, of course some do not. However, in my NIV Bible, there was the title ‘Good Order in Worship’ above the passage from verse 26-40. I reread the whole passage, not just those two said (discussed) verses.
💡Then that made sense along with Mike’s research/discernment explanation! Woot woot! Thanks, Mike!
Looking forward to that study video Ps Mike!
thank you mike for bringing clarity to this issue. the most important thing is to be certain what god is saying. if that is established, then we do what he says. he is the creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them. he knows the best way his creation would work. his system of order is far better than what finite minds of man think is better.
Silence has also led to multiple abuses in the Church, because "women cannot question the men."
Thank you for having sense
ty 4 taking a stand! stand on the word of god!
We used to live in quite a remote part of India. There were parallels with the culture described here. I remember an old Nepali lady loudly getting up and arguing with a neighbour in the middle of the preaching 😂 If I was a gambling type (which I'm not!) I'd be willing to lay money on the bet that this was exactly the kind of thing Paul was talking about!
Of course!
Galatians 3:28
New International Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
@@yeshuaislordandgodraisedhi4369 not the applicable verse.
as long as you don't bet your eternal salvation on it all be fine
What about all the sensible and intelligent women... just for a small loud women all should be given same treatment. Are there no loud men???
I am struggling with a lot of the comments, because many of them sound so foreign to the Bible I know and love. As a woman alone with no husband, father, brother, church brethren or anyone to cover and protect and guide me, I have to trust the good men here to remember me in their prayers, if you would all be so kind. I appreciate you... Much love... be safe and blessed...
Will be praying for you Myra!
@@blakeriedel9983 Thank you, beloved brother. I am sincerely grateful...
Myra~ we are never alone becausre Jesus has promised to never leave nor forsake us. Why, may i ask, are you currently out of fellowship?
@@bouquetoffood8918 I am gaining clarity and purpose, sanity, back from an abusively torturing narcissistic relationship. It has taken me 4 years just to be able to go out and talk to people face to face again. I trust very little still... Jesus saved me out of that place, and He is everything good in my life... He’s just kinda difficult to hug...thank you for asking...
@@myrajackson-rain5483
Hi Myra~Thanks for your reply. I will pray for your
continued recovery and for strength in the Lord.
Although I may disagree here and there, I appreciate your humility and openness, Mike!
Female PK here, 95% of the issues and problems I saw firsthand in the church were started or instigated by the women. As an adult female, I embrace this scripture and teach it diligently to my children. I can say from firsthand experience that woman can bring great peace to the church, or they can wreak havoc. I have decided to keep the peace and follow God's word. Thanks for posting this, this conversation NEEDS to be had.
Thank you, Mike, I am so eager to hear about your future teaching from the Bible on the role of women/wives (me)!
👏 👏 Beneficial
Thank you Mike many people use this out of context and it hurts. The context is very helpful. I never want to have authority or speak over anyone but it’s comforting to remember women have a place in His church that God has designed, and it’s not just being silent. We can use our God given gifts appropriately ❤️
I just had this debate with a young man who said he was in "Bible college"... I finally just gave him a link to your page... Thank you Pastor Mike for your diligence.
As a woman of age, I find nothing about the Word of God "oppressive". I found I had way more influence with my husband when I "kept quiet" in public situations and spoke to him in private.
I fully believe if men got more teaching on the great privilege it is to have a wife that feels so safe she is willing to offer submission to her husband. And the weight of the responsibility of this privilege, MAYBE... this would not be the issue it has become...
What about single women who have no husband at home?
@@sjg5994 What about her? What does a single woman have to do with submission to your husband except to learn to be in submission to the Word of God before you become a wife...?
@@christiroseify That's what I'm asking. In the literal sense of what some translate it, a single woman in church has no husband to go home to ask. So does it apply to her if it's literal, or only married women?
@@sjg5994 Yes, because your father/brother/uncle, whomever is the male authority in your life, is the male authority until you marry...
And, you have the elders, deacons, and pastor to go to if you have questions and have no male authority in her family.
Biblically, being "of age" doesn't change our place in the church as a woman.
While used to be part of a SOAP women's scripture application group, I am not a fan of "women's bible study" classes. They are very secular in nature and teaching and their very existence takes away authority from the man...
I tell you, I am fit to be tied with the condition of the church right now, but it doesn't change where I believe God has placed authority as well as responsibility.
And I do not see them taking responsibility for what they have done and are doing with the authority God has given them...
If I hear one more person say, "he's just a man" as justification for the actions/words of a pastor I'll scream.
Wait: I'm about to rant so I'll stop here...
Being single doesn't change you being a woman...
Wow this video was super helpful. Thank you
The subservient sort of role of women in relationship to men is meant to be parallel with the relationship of the church to Christ... the only reason this messes us up I'd because we try to understand spiritual things with an earthly perspective. I'm glad you're addressing this. Glory to GOD.💜
I am a women… and I think a lot of women need to get off their high horse and need to embrace being a “women” and not try so hard to be “men” .. I love how you said roles … cause it’s so true women are different then men… we all may be human but we have different roles.. and women need to see their strength in being humble and submissive.. and bringing children into the world.. we were created to be able to do things that men weren’t even created to do.. (child bearing) so women just need to embrace their “role”.
Talking in church isn’t trying to be a man.. so as a women we are not allowed to speak to a pastor, a man with YEARS of experience of the Bible.. cannot ask a question? I cannot say hi? Cannot ask for prayers? Most be SILENT and only ask my husband, who is also still LOOKING for answers…I cannot speak in church because that would make me on a high horse trying to be a man?
I’m legit asking a question and what you women genuinely mean…
Thanks - this is helpful.
I do want to comment on what you said toward the end in your dismissal of people who say that their marriage works more or less as a team. You seem to be insinuating that they are lying to you. I've been married for 34 years - my wife is really good at logistics (far better than I am) so she will generally plan trips, make decisions in that regard, etc. I'm good at other things. We love each other. We're for each other. I can't remember the last time we had a disagreement so sharp that I had to pull the complementarian card.
A lot of complementarians are in (without naming it this way) egalitarian marriages and that works very well for them. We're not lying to you.
On the other hand, I've spoken with guys who think that the Bible teaches that their wife has to clear everything with them, who instruct their wives how to vote (politics always seems to be an extremely high priority for these types), who maybe put their wives on an allowance, etc. They infantilize their wives. In other words, criticism of complementarianism isn't automatically unfair. Their are *lots* of abuses of it. The church needs to be open to criticism and reform, rather than just assuming we're being misunderstood.
Priscilla is a woman, in the New Testament, mentioned across several books, in the bible and noted for helping Paul and being a "sister" in Christ. She's first mentioned in Acts 18:2. Her first act as ACTUALLY "teaching" something (and even "usurping authority over a man") is in Acts 18:26. She helped fine tuned Apollos understanding of the Word of God, along with her husband via Aquila. It's mentioned twice, that she holds a church, in her home, with her husband via Romans 16:5 & 1 Corinthians 16:19.
Even after 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says that "women should be silent and not teach nor 'usurp authority over a man'", Priscilla is STILL be credited for a job well done, in 2 Timothy 4:19...if women weren't meant to "teach" nor "usurp authority over a man", the bible would NOT have mentioned her and would've condemned her for dare doing so, but it never did. And, this is the KJV, in which it makes it pretty clear that she helped Apollos' understanding ("teaching a man") of the Word of God and held a church, in her home. Folks just like to misinterpret the Word of God to fulfill their own ideology, in what they want God's Word to be.
Pastor Mike I appreciate the wisdom you use in answering questions! Praise Jesus
Hey I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?
The US!
@@redheadedstepchild5432 wow that's awesome,I'm glad you reply me thanks for it.
@@redheadedstepchild5432 how is your day going?
How ought we factor in the reality that women were not allowed to attend rabbinical school at the time, and wouldn’t have had the same knowledge as men?
Super cool question! Maybe email it, and Sarah might be able to set it aside for Mike to look into while he's doing his study on women in the church. I'd LOVE to hear his thoughts on this.
That's a good factor in! Context matters!
@@nyambsdeborah8954 Context is king
@@singmetosleep29 perioddd
@@bufficliff8978 where do you email questions?
I'm also reminded of Ephesians 5 where describes husband and wife as Christ and the church and I think, as you have explained, that this particular scenario for a woman to remain silent being reflective of that headship.
What about single women? I'm struggling to understand our place when we have no husband at home.
i have trouble with verses like these because for me to feel comfortable with relinquishing my power (as little as it may be) to submit to a man feels very dangerous to me given the example i was given at home. my father is a narcissist and his choices mostly put our family on shaky ground. seeing my mother be the wiser party in their relationship makes me second guess this aspect of christianity. I love the Lord and want to be a woman as He meant me to be so I’m currently praying for wisdom on this point and vision to find peace for it in my heart.
Using 2021 as a benchmark for how we should be is not wise...
This is the most evil time I have ever seen.
I agree! The most evil time I've ever seen. We need REAL men like Mike leading our churches!
@G D Are you serious? Unbelievable crime, Antifa mobs and BLM mobs, a manufactured virus and a poisonous shot. Open borders, child trafficking. just to name a few evils.
@G D Stolen election; a president that China owns. Shall I go on?
@G Dvoice of sanity in the midst of some pretty extreme paranoia. I never know how much point there is interacting with these folk as they seem to have gone too far down a rabbit hole of "doing their own research" via CZcams and Facebook....but maybe the combination of being challenged and conviction of the Holy Spirit might get them thinking.
I'm looking forward to your teaching on women in ministry. Thank you for 'biting the bullet' and teaching Truth. I appreciate hearing you delve into God's Word and processing it for us in context.
Hey I'm Emmanuel from Nigeria where are you from?
The guy speaking in the middle was so lovingly and confidently tactful in his approach to this sensitive topic.c I could sense the tension coming from the other speakers or panel members, but when he asked them are you married and made those final comments, it was checkmate. How dare any of us bring charges against God. As if God is flawed, just because the rebellion of our times has gone out of control. Paul was used mightily by God, and God's Holy Word is true without a doubt. Great conversation and dialogue.
I love God's word and
We've been married 41 years and 99.9% of decisions we have made together. We do research, discuss our feelings and pray about them. I would hope you could realize that there are marriages that the couples truly do make decisions together.
Yes, I agree. But the rules for making decisions in regards to a husband and wife are not for when you agree, but when you disagree. Therefore the Bible gives the responsibility of the final choice to the husband. In my marriage, it is when neither of us want to make the decision that my wife reminds me that it is my responsibility.
@@mystdragon8530
You are spot on my friend. I "submit" to my husband when we DIFFER. God bless!
I agree, we are to submit to each other in marriage.
@@mystdragon8530 I see your point, but are there not situations where the big decision on which spouses differ should be made by the woman, and the man should submit (as per Ephesians 5 - "submit to one another")? If we have different roles then, for instance, the woman should make the choice about what kind of labor and delivery she wants. That is her domain.
@@rvank8037 I disagree with your last point. In marriage the husbands body belongs to the wife and the wife’s to her husband. He should be included in decisions about his wife’s body. I know that my husband cares deeply for my well-being so i can trust that his concerns and opinions are coming from a place of love and responsibility to me as his wife. I show him respect and trust when I ask his opinion and take his advice on matters that effect my body. We pray and discuss different options until we reach an agreement that we both are at peace with.
God’s design is perfect, and it’s wonderful when it’s followed properly. What Pastor Mike says there about different roles was key 🔑😊
Amen!🙏🏼
Read 1 Tim 2:12 and explain why women can't teach over men
@@tylerbrown5478 I'm no expert, but like in this case, look at rhe context and see if there might be additional meaning to the word "teach" in that verse.
Tricuspid atresia is his design. You call that perfect?
@@tylerbrown5478 1 Tim 2 has many parts and pieces that have to all be integrated into the interpretation of this passage. If you cannot explain the reference to the created order (man then woman) and how this has to do with the man not being deceived but the woman only being deceived, or how "she" will be saved through the childbearing if "they" continue in faith, love and sanctity with self restraint -- if these are not all part of the explanation, including the purpose for which Paul writes this letter to Timothy, etc., then you have to take your view lightly.
The problem is not with the passage but our lack of understanding. Thank you for treating this carefully. Misunderstanding can easily bruise and stunt female spiritual growth or lead a male to stumble into pride and arrogance. Mutual appreciation for our complementary roles must be given more than lip service, by men and women.
Excellent commentary, Mike!!! I am a woman too!!!
Hi Mike, this world has a problem of submission of all sorts. Even they see submitting to God and His will as a problem. Hence this viewed as oppressive.
Yes, the Enlightenment really did doom religious power. For if freedom is a human right, then why must we still be slaves to a god?
Women funded Jesus's ministry. Women play a significant role in the body of Christ. I am so thankful for the order that God has ordained. Understanding that the husband is the representation of Christ in the household, the head, gives women freedom to express and explore thoughts and questions. It allows us to be open and vulnerable which is exactly what we should be. We should call into question things that seem off or wrong and we should be able to point out what is good and right and the order God has set in place allows us to reach our full potential in the best possible way.
Excellent point, sister Margaret. Women funded the ministry. This is amazing in and of itself, suggesting not only their critical function here, but that they had the authority to dispense with their own funds as they saw fit. Amazing.
Proverbs 31:26-27
She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Amen brother. I hear the truth being spoken in love. Sadly, sometimes that will offend no matter what you do.