Rogue One and Phantom Menacing - Analyzed Review
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2017
- Check out the "I Just Saw This Movie Podcast!" I guest-starred with my friend Matthew Brando, and we discussed Rogue One in-depth! • Video
FACEBOOK: / chrisstuckmann
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Chris Stuckmann
P.O. Box 1028
Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44223
Chris Stuckmann discusses Rogue One, and the fan reaction to it, as well as past Star Wars films. - Zábava
OMG I SAW THAT COMMENT "Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans" A FEW HOURS AGO.
JezzaNolan 26 On TLJ spoiler review?
TLJ didn't exist a year ago.
But yeah the Star Wars fanbase is pretty much eternally unpleasable. Unfortunately some particularly bad apples get noticed and the whole fandom is suddenly deemed racist and sexist. Argh.
Little did he the mans coment would go down in legend...and know one would ever remember the guy who composed the coment.
People have been saying that since the prequels...it's even mentioned in "The People vs. George Lucas"
Charlie Dawson you mean the the force awakens analyze video
I completely disagree that every character needs a flashback or story for them to be interesting or cared about. The fact that people are even interested enough to want the side characters back stories means that you cared about them slightly at the very least. To be completely honest I didn't have any interest in knowing Han and Chewie's backstory after watching the OT but watching rogue one I wanted to know more about all the main characters, apart from the pilot who I didn't really care for as much. Rogue One is one of my favorite Star Wars movies.
And if the movie wasn’t a Star Wars movie, no one would give a single shit. It offers nothing other than action scenes with a Star Wars skin. It’s the Battlefront (2015) of movies lol. Pretty to look at with nothing under the surface.
I like Rogue One because to me, it isn’t supposed to be a character driven movie, making it unique in Star Wars. It’s definitely a story and action driven film.
Oh please. The characters are what make a movie good or bad. The only reason you or anyone else likes this movie is because it’s Star Wars porn lol.
Pretty much like the war film Dunkirk. Chris said it didn't give us enough about the characters to care about. But that was the point of the movie, the main character doesn't even have a name and the premise of the film is just being put in the shoes of the average soldier trying to escape the beach.
It's fine if Han and Chewbacca's friendship isn't explained in 4 movies, but it's awful when Baze and Chirrut's friendship isn't explained in 1 movie...
Kyle Aaron because in this movie it just feels like they are adding even more ppl with no backstory..
Daniel Ambition that's really dumb. Considering how vast the star wars universe is, it would be overkill to explain each character
and their backstory.
Sarcastic Friend yah , but not even 1 character in this film is fleshed out at all.
Chelsea Jones, isn't that how all Star Wars movies are, though? To be fair, Rogue One isn't a focus on the characters- its focus is the events preceding ANH. That's it. The characters are secondary, and Lucasfilm will only flesh them out in other formats if they are popular. That's how it's always been and always will be in Star Wars.
thats what i see also
I don't understand why you would need to go into detail of why Chirrut and Baze are friends. In the originals no one questioned why and how Chewy and Han were friends.
His main problems were the character's arks or the lack of one rather. 11:00
that phantom menace crowd footage is 100% beautifully hilarious.
phantom menace = new wonder of the world
“There is no way this movie will be a disappointment” oof
We all laugh at the footage, but it’s exactly how Star Wars fans sounded in 2015 before the Force Awakens was released
Phantom Menace isn't a wonder of the world. Just Jar Jar Binks is
This film isn’t about the characters. It’s about the overall mission. It adds to the original film. That’s the coolest thing to me.
Pretty much like the war film Dunkirk. Chris said it didn't give us enough about the characters to care about. But that was the point of the movie, the main character doesn't even have a name and the premise of the film is just being put in the shoes of the average soldier trying to escape the beach.
@@listenchump4041 With Rogue One, however, the film desperately tries to establish a bond between Jyn and Galen, but it simply falls flat. This movie doesn’t have nameless characters - it has ones that would be better off without names.
Exactly, it's about the sacrifice, it enhances a new hope. This movie went way over his head.
@@Throwup413 I mean, I wasn't a fan of the movie for a lot of the same reasons. So I guess you have to be really invested in Star Wars to get this movie.
Yeah the movie tried to make it about the characters. So your wrong and just talking about how you personally felt which isn’t accurate
Ok, so I'm from the future, and the Andor Show has made Rogue One even more loveable
you can't blame Chris,,,he didn't grow up with Jyn Erso
dakken74 😂😂😂😂😂
dakken74 😂😂😂😂😂
dakken74 LMFAO thats too funny
hahahah ! To the toppppp.
I never like CZcams-comments, but you've deserved my like, mister! 😂
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than in the comment section of a Star Wars video
I never liked that line honestly. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy, um, what about the empire?
I have it on good authority from the Empire's Michelin Guide to Hives of Wretched Scum and Villainy, that Mos Eisley was the only place in the galaxy where both "every sin known in existence was happening" in the wretched scum category and "most possible crimes being committed" villainy rating.
When people complain about wooden acting in these movies. But also say that the originals were the best lol.
The original trilogy is filled to the brim, with wooden acting from every character. It's just it's not been over analysed and people wear rose tinted goggles with those movies.
Just rewatched it. It's my favorite Disney star wars movie
Concur
Chris, I can respect your opinion/perspective, but you lose me when you say "there is absolutely nothing underneath the surface of Rogue One." "Nothing" is a strong word. This movie, more so than any other film in the series, actually deals with what it's like to live under the oppressive rule of an empire, essentially a Third Reich-esque police state. The rise of the Death Star is like the rise of nuclear weaponry, as I believe the scenes of the Death Star's blasts in this film are almost certainly meant to evoke that feeling of the horrors of the atom bomb. People have gone on extensively as far as how this is like a WWII style war film, and the movie is basically a death opera, meaning it is all about this desperate, last ditch effort by desperate people in desperate circumstances where no one is guaranteed to come out alive. I also think that the movie deals with the concept of the Force in a really interesting way, in that there are clearly people who have some form of religious faith in it without being Jedi, which adds a spiritual layer to the film, and I think this aspect sets the stage for the Rebellion to actually become as united and determined as it is in the original trilogy.
Also, I think the argument that "we don't see enough character backstory" is honestly kind of a weak argument. Think about it: in the Original Trilogy, Luke is literally the only character who we see any backstory to, kind of like Jynn. When we meet Han Solo, what do you know about his backstory, where he came from, etc. other than the fact that he is a smuggler, he's in debt to Jabba, and looks out for himself first? In 4 movies with Han Solo, we still know not a thing about his backstory prior to A New Hope that tells us where he came from, why he's a smuggler, why he's friends with a wookie, why he's selfish, etc. and yet he's still a great character. The fact of the matter is, backstory, strictly speaking, is not always the end-all-be-all of character, it has to be a case by case basis. It's all about the story that's being told, too (aka context), not every story needs the exact same formula for character development.
Continuing: everything we know about Leia in the originals is told to us, we never see her royal parents until the prequel era and beyond. We are told that Alderaan is peaceful, but never see life on that planet. The whole backstory of Obi-Wan, Vader, and Yoda is told to us through conversations, but we are never told why exactly Vader turned evil or what the Jedi Order even was like. And yet most people still love the originals on the basis that "they don't explain too much." Of course, the prequels later expand on this backstory, but they are essentially another series of films that came much later; for the sake of the originals being what they were at the time they came out, much of their story is inferred to us.
Don't even get me started on The Force Awakens either - as entertaining and investing as the characters are, are you ever given a real believable explanation for what makes Finn, out of all the storm troopers, decide to defect? Are we missing something from his "backstory" that causes this to make sense? What on earth caused the rift between Kyle Ren and his family and made him turn? Who the blazes is Rey? I like the movie, but literally everything about it is based on minimalistic, inferential, speculative approaches to characterization.
In Rogue One, I think the dynamic between Jynn and her father could be seen as following the familial tradition in Star Wars - her catharsis and arc as a character is based upon her relationship to her father and how this impacts everything. Donnie Yen shows us that the Force is always alive even in the darkest times. The movie shows us how a disparate and conflicted group of rebels can be united by a common hope and cause. That is definitely something.
Best comment on this thread for me. I don't really see Chris' point about needing everything fleshed out and explained when so much in this movie is heavily implied.
excellent comment, I hope Chris reads this with an open mind, because I think everyone telling him why R1 is a good movie just makes him more fixated to the idea everyone is wrong except for him... I have to say still I really like and respect Mr. Stuckmann. please let me add that Cassian's story is a real arc, he starts killing friends for the mission and at the end he decides to change... just saying
I really like this comment. I wish more like these were written and top voted in this comment section full of overdramatic threats to unsubscribe.
You really hit the nail on the head there as to why I cant call this an "analysis" video. All that stuff you stated is absolutely there for any moviegoer or critic to see. It was less a SW movie and more a WWII film in Space. It made the conflict much more complex then good vs evil, adding in shades of Grey, Cassian and Jyns story alone get that point across. By the end of R1, I knew more about Jyn then I knew about Rey (we knew more by the trailers actually). And the film is incredibly ballsy for killing off a new set of characters, being darker, and really being sonewhat political. Now I think its possibly to love both R1 and TFA, IN FACT i do, so the commenters putting down one over the other to make their point is a bit ridiculous. I just think Chris didnt give this a fair shake cause of what he believes Star Wars should be, which at this point is a very subjective idea. He comes off more prententious and Ignorant more than anything, cause I not only have a counter point for everything he said, he didnt make a compelling argument for his points to begin with.
Thank you, Cody. It always struck me as odd the way Finn showed such a healthy conscience in the beginning of TFA without being given any real reason to.
My problem with this analysis is not how he criticizes Rogue One. It's how he seems to criticize *the people who like Rogue One.* He seems to imply that people are only in denial when they say they enjoyed the film. As if there's no possible way people can like it genuinely.
I don't think I'm in denial when I say I liked the movie. Maybe in the future I'll hate it. But now I genuinely enjoyed it.
He didn't imply it, it was blatantly obvious by his use of the footage of TPM cinemagoers back in the 1990s.
Really? I thought he said several times that if you were able to enjoy it, then good for them.
Lars Evangelista Stop having a tantrum it's just some guys opinion.
The Shadow Master it's funny because he loved Force Awakens, and people call him fanboy or in denial.
Lars Evangelista I totally agree with you
"And maybe it will entertain you for two hours"
More than a year passed, half-dozen viewings, two new SW films already came out, and R1 is still my favorite SW movie.
I must be phantommenacing too hard.
lvkeyne same. Rogue One has been my favorite SW since I watched it on opening night.
This review made me stop watching Chris Stuckman or at-least I slowed down. Him, Doug and others have rarely made legitimate trusted reviews about anything since around this time. He can have wrong opinions but not this off.
We know nothing about Poe’s backstory and Chris doesn’t complain about that, but Chris is expecting the movie to do a backstory for each of the Rouge One characters. Chris is the one phantom menacing
I respectfully strongly disagree with everything
andrea campoy name me one character trait about saw gerrara.
William Wright he is a rebellious zealot that believes the rebels aren’t fighting hard enough against the empire and has become blind to the fact that his actions are just as disgusting as the actions the Empire does.
Thank you for being respectful and I respectfully completely disagree with you
That’s fair
Ok. What exactly and why?
Stuckmann called this an analysis review and then spent the entire video complaining about how there was nothing to analyse... I think Rogue One is not as good as the original trilogy and TFA, but the way Chris spends this entire review talking down to people who liked it because his opinion is clearly the correct one left a bad taste in my mouth.
TFA sucks worse than the Prequels, because it is rehashed by an egotistical idiot called Abrams.
So? It's like poetry, it rhymes.
D Sandoval - What did you expect? That's the path to the dark side. You can't expect anyone to turn to the dark side without them having any emotional trauma in their lives.
You clearly stopped watching halfway through the video.
So, what do we know about Poe Dameron? Oh that's right! He's the pilot.
Lars Evangelista He's got 3 movies to stretch him out. Therefore this is invalid, as Jyn had 1 film. And a book to justify, I guess.
Chris Wong Jyn had Catalyst, her upcoming novel, and the expanded events of the Rogue One novelization, although I feel like her conversation with Saw more or less summed up everything we needed to know about her
Doesn't matter how many films he has, he's not much of a character in TFA. All he is (at least for me) is a charismatic pilot.
Lars Evangelista Or what about fin he was once a stormtrooper but then turns good for no reason
Didn't know he was the main character of the movie ...
I just rewatched Rogue One to get hype for ep 9, and it was even better than I remembered! Not perfect but I gotta say you’re definitely wrong about the whole “Phantom Menacing” thing
I agree. I rewatch it every now and then and enjoy it for what it is every time.
The second act does kinda drag, but I will say 100% Rogue One is my second favorite StarWars film
I’ve disagreed with both of his reviews for the spin off films in the star wars universe
I still think Rogue One isn't a great SW film but decent enough. (In my opinion), the so-called "not a netflix film - Force Awakens" *IS* a netflix film. It hasn't aged well especially in light to the two installments in that trilogy.
@@tomvu1470 Honestly, The Force Awakens is still a highly entertaining movie. I don't fault it for the next two movies not following up on it properly. By itself, its still a fun movie and John Boyega and Daisy Ridley are a lot of fun together. So its probably the only movie of the trilogy that still holds up pretty well.
I loved Rogue One. It was a fantastic movie. I never thought that a star wars movie without Jedi would be so awesome
Just something I thought of for laughs:
(After a brief battle with stormtroopers in Jedha)
Jyn to Chirrut and Baze: We could use warriors like you in our cause. Join us.
Chirrut: We shall.
Jyn: Excellent. Now you must help us-
Chirrut Wait! Don't you want to know more about me?
Jyn: What?
Chirrut: I mean you just met me. Wouldn't you want to hear a little of my story? My friendship with Baze here?
Jyn: That sounds nice and all but we are on a very important mission to-
Chirrut: It all started many years ago...
Jyn: We literally have no time for this!
Chirrut: It will only take a moment.(Continues with backstory)
Jyn:(Sighs)
30 Minutes later...
Chirrut: And that is how I became a guardian and met my best friend Baze.
Jyn: Can we go now?
Baze: What about my backstory?
Jyn: Really? You have both proven to be capable fighters with no love of the Empire. That's more than good enough for me.
Baze: Many years ago when I was just a boy...
Jyn:( Raging internally)
40 minutes later
Baze: And that is how I came to be here today.
Jyn: You done?
Baze: Yes.
Jyn Then let's go. The Empire grows stronger with every second we waste...
Cassian: Wait. I have a story I wish to tell as well.
Jyn: Are you fu**ing kidding me right now?
Cassian: When I was a boy-
Jyn: NO!!!!! We've wasted enough time here already. If we don't get a move on soon the Empire will surely-(The sky gets dark suddenly)
Baze: What's happening?
(Sudden flash of green in the sky)
Cassian: What the hell is that?
Chirrut: What the hell is wha-
Jyn: OH SHIT!!!!
BOOM! Jedha destroyed by Death Star.
THE END
( I do agree that they could've fleshed out the characters more but having complete back stories is unnecessary in my opinion.)
Kevin Scott Your story made my day 😂😂👏🏼
Fortner Films Glad to hear that :)
Wow. I knew Chris didn't like Rogue One, but I didn't know he hated it this much. I personaly enjoyed the movie.
He said it was a good movie but had character flaws, why is no one understanding that he believes the film was good and he constantly said it was better than the prequels but every thinks he is being hypercritical!
I personally hated every second of the first 2 acts. And liked the end. This comment section is full of recency bias. If you liked all of Rogue one, you liked a genuinely bad movie and I dont trust your opinion on movies.
@@pauldjferris 5 years later have you changed your mind?
And his fav movie was the force awakens 😂 definitely not taking his opinions as seriously any more
@@lukehunter9296 His opinions on most movies are great but he critiques at star wars much differently than other movies and franchises for some reason
Rogue One, so far, has aged better than Chris predicted here. The public perception still seems to be positive towards this film. I agree with some of the issues Chris brings up here and I would be interested to see a directors cut that felt less disjointed without all the reshoots. Overall though I still enjoy this film, even if it isn’t what it could’ve been.
I like both of these movies. Phantom Menace was a good first act in a story that introduced a massively enhanced lore, and Rogue One was a grounded, emotional movie that felt like both a Star Wars movie and a standalone movie at the same time.
I'm not sure how it would be possible but I'd love to a have a educated discussion with Chris on this because while I understand his points I do disagree with them and really would love to talk to other people who have the same feeling toward rogue one. I love rogue one and want to have an educated discussion, not a rant.
I know, right? It's so frustrating. But rants are all comments allow for, and Chris won't respond to them
I'm not sure how you could disagree with him. His points were extremely valid. Characters had almost no backstory outside of tiny snippets, the pacing was extremely off, he didn't even touch on the action scenes and how cheesy some of them are yet realistic others are. He didn't touch on the "convenience" of things like stormtroopers running into place so they can get exploded by a grenade. Or the ship crashing exactly where Cassian needed to get to so he could climb up and snipe Galen who just happened to be visited by somebody who never shows up at that exact moment and doing it outside on an extremely environmentally hostile planet. Or the "master switch" scene where the big switch, the whole crux of the final battle, is sitting out in the open on a beach. Or all the characters that did the cheesy, "you go on but i'll stay" with zero point to them doing that as opposed to fighting (and losing that fight) to survive. All done to try and ring some emotion out of you but it coming off hollow.
There is so much wrong with Rogue One despite the fact that it could have been an AWESOME movie. The idea of Rogue One is great. The execution of some of the individual scenes is great. But the dissonance in tone and story between those scenes combined with a severe lack of backstory and a lot of Hollywood convenience completely mars the movie.
It's not a horrible movie at all. But it is extremely flawed in many different ways consistently throughout the movie despite having tons of great ideas. It just never gets to capitalize on those ideas.
You can literally say the same thing about TFA. Where did Rey come from? Who is she? How is she so good with the force? What happened to Finn? Why was he able to defect from being a storm trooper? Those points are not valid. There are probably more questions in TFA and he said that he loved it. So this analysis can literally be the same for TFA
I never cared about the pasts of the characters in a new hope, but now we need every detail from new movies
A lot of the time it's not important to know where someone hails from, the only real important thing is who they are during the events of the movie. We know all we need to know about Han Solo from the original Star Wars, every character trait is fleshed out and his motivations are clear. The Han Solo spin-off can't really add anything to the character as far as I'm concerned.
I will see the Han Solo spin-off in theaters, but I am not the least bit excited.
We need to know backstory that is important to the current story. We can fill in the blanks about Luke's life living a simple life in Tatooine, but we can't skip straight to him being a Jedi. That's exactly what happened to Jyn.
eduardobm We get to see Luke's simple life as a moisture farmer during the original Star Wars. The first act is almost entirely dedicated to it.
It's really not about who these characters are in rogue one its about what they did, getting those plans, that's what's important in my opinion
3:42
Middle-right of picture... green shirt, and the guy next to him with the black shirt...
their hands.........
Star Trek invasion has started. May the force be with you.
This video could have been 10 seconds of you saying "I didn't like the movie. Everyone else who doesn't agree with my opinion is wrong and blinded"
Why are you so insisting on giving a backstory to everyone? Han Solo never had a backstory in New Hope and he was still awesome.
And now he gets one! Can't wait for #StarWarsYoungHan
polterghost he did, and it was given to him through dialogue and his actions
I'm pretty much sure Rogue one character's actions also reveal a lot about them. Chirrut is not saying anything about his past, but that he's a guardian of the Whills, but the fact that he connects with the force and can "see" things tell us about his dedication and also about his force potential. And that's only one character.
He doesn't say that they need a backstory. They characters in Rogue One did have backstories but they literally just say what they are. His point was that characters need personality so that you can invest in them. Backstory can help with personality because it gives you a sense of why the characters are doing what they do but it isn't essential.
In A New Hope you have the Greedo scene which does tell you a little bit about Han's past but more importantly it shows Han's character. In Rogue One you have lines which say something about a character's past but does little to build there personality. Cassian says that he's fought the empire since he was a child and that he has done things that he isn't proud of. The fact that he fought as a child doesn't help build his character and we already knew that he's done things that he wasn't proud of (he killed that guy at the start).
I will disagree with Chris on one thing though. There was one human character in Rogue One who I do believe was characterized who's motivations that I did understand. That character was Krennic. The film was arguably more his story than Jyn's. It starts with him building the Death Star and ends with him being killed by his own creation. He is a proud character who wants to help the Empire but is constantly being second guessed by his superiors. Even though he is the antagonist of the film he himself has his own antagonist, that being Tarkin. It's not a good sign when the films villain has the most complete arc.
Also I don't know what Chris is on about, CGI Tarkin and Leia looked incredible.
Every single Rogue One character is more developed than any character in A New Hope.
What has changed is our standards and demands on storytellers. Movies are all supposed to have surprise twists and intricate backstories today and, if they don't, somehow that's reason to dock it points.
Star Wars was never as deep and layered because it was based on adventure serials. Rogue One largely meets the new standard for complexity. Yet, somehow, Stuckmann is pretending it fails compared to the original and it's plainly ridiculous.
The only way anyone can say "There are no characters in R1!" is if they deliberately ignore all the nuances of those characters.
"Didn't rely on other stories..." Bro, have you not seen the original Star Wars movie? How can someone say that?
Star-Lord in Guardians of the Galaxy had the same arc as Jyn Erso did in Rogue One. His mother dies of cancer, and he gets abducted by aliens. Then, we see him about 2 minutes later, as a full grown adult, beating the bad guys. But... you loved Star-Lord.
Rogue One is the best Star Wars film since ROTJ. The reason Rogue One was well received is because it kept things relatively simple, it didn’t pervert the Star Wars universe like TLJ did, it was clearly made for Star Wars fans not the casual viewers, and most importantly it had Darth Vader in it and no Kylo Ren.
GO BACK UP NOW SAVE YOURSELF YOU DON'T WANNA GO INTO THE COMMENT SECTION
Too late
IT'S TOO LATE FOR ME!!! I'M IN TOO DEEP!!!!
Asa Fisher I second this. It's just people complaining that he thinks the Force Awakens is good, and people misunderstanding standalone movies completely
Asa Fisher yeah, these People can't take someone's opinion. Especially with Star Wars, it's bad
Jesus Christ, I thought you were kidding. I should have listened.
Be careful not to choke on your own opinion, Chris.
Hahahahhahahaah! fucking love this!
All I see are fans choking Chris in the comments
AndrewEarns as silly as this comment is I agree with chris, as usual
He'll shoot his eye out!
He should be careful not to snap Zod's neck!
Chris i feel like you once said that Boba Fett was so cool because your imagination just went wild with how badass he could be, even though he doesnt really do anything badass in those original films. But for Rogue One you not getting precise information about a character makes a movie lackluster
Now that it’s more popular to talk about the Last Jedi, eventually people will admit that rogue one is about a billion times better than that stillbirth of a film.
this is probably the most dislike video from Chris that I have ever seen
And it should be
Ramon Diaz And deservedly so, such a pretentious and egotistical video.
How is it pretentious? Because he didn't like a Star Wars movie? Please just screw off
He didn't like a GOOD Star Wars movie. It makes his adoration of TFA look odd.
That One Guy Yeah, God forbid anyone step outside of your fanboy circle jerk. Fucking pathetic.
Chris, like many others in the comment section, I disagree with you and think that you are criticizing Rogue One for many flaws while ignoring those same flaws in other movies.
Han and Chewies friendship is never explained.
Luke is not well developed in A New Hope, it's until Empire that we get a sense of his fears and him as a person and his conflict with Vader.
We know nothing of Rey other than that she's waiting for her family, and she can do more impressive things than Jyn (Mind controlling, flying the Millennium Falcon like a badass, wielding a freaking light saber) without any prior knowledge or explanation about how she does it.
On the other side, Jyn is someone who is tired of fighting and running, and is willing to live under the Empire's rule (It's fine to have the Empire's flag flying in every planet "As long as you don't look up"). She later decides to sacrifice herself after seeing what her father had made and realized how evil the Empire was and that her father was never OK with it.
I don't care if you liked or didn't like the movie, or if you thought the characters weren't interesting. But I'm concerned that you as a reviewer criticize some things in one movie while giving another one a pass on those same issues.
One last thing: I agree that Tarkin and Leia didn't look perfect. However, we need films to keep pushing the envelope in terms of visual effects. The dinosaurs in Jurassic Park were not perfect, neither was Gollum in the Two Towers, but these films showed the way for new types of special effects. Rogue One is the first major film to be bold enough to try to recreate human characters with CGI. They probably could have been better with more time, but I like that they tried, and at least for me, they didn't take me out of the movie, at least the first time.
Diego Morett I disagree on Luke not being well developed
Diego Morett I also disagree with you on Rogue One being the first major film where dead actors were recreated in CGI. That's not true.
Which one was the first then? Fast and Furios 7 had amalgamations of real Paul Walker and his brothers, and I think it was pretty decent, but I don't know what percentage of it was with CGI Paul Walker.
There was Oliver Reed in Gladiator.
Yep, this has aged as milk …
Wait so you're saying that because I enjoyed rogue one and you didn't, that means I'm in denial about it and must be wrong? that is the most pretentious thing I've ever heard.
and you like phanton menace?...
Joshua The master of squids that wasn't Chris point, he is just talking about the people deceived with the "starwars" brand, and enter in a denial state, saying that they like something that... they just didn't like, Including himself
I remember when Chris said that this movie was the best, the best... but I noticed than he changed his opinion... is like a burglar cheating or something this phenomenon... but if you're immune and this isn't your case... good for u!
RipLock Gaming it is, because at the end of bad movies, sometimes he said "if you liked, good, don't mind me, it's your opinion", youtubers have their own point of view and preferences, ... the fact is that, it depends on you to choose them and see their reviews, if you like it good, id not, choose another youtuber.... is implicit
If you actually watched the video, you would know that's not what he was saying at all. 19:55
Red Rully hell even Mr Plinkett said that if i enjoy Rogue One then i'm a blind fanboy. These wankers of RedLetterMedia can fuck off.
Han Solo: No back story.
Chewbacca: No back story.
Princess Leia: No back story.
C-3P0: No back story.
R2-D2: No back story.
Yet, everyone loved them and still loves them... bigly. Back story doesn't matter when the main story, like blowing up a government super weapon in space with the power of a mystical energy is more interesting. That's why Star Wars played out that way, and didn't start with the birth of Leia, growing up a Princess, then five hours into the movie her getting the plans and then the rest of the movie.
yeah, episode 4 had bland acting with 0 back story. Chris totally missed that :P. This is called the Nostalgia factor. Chris is too nostalgic to be critical of Star Wars
Peter Gonzalez but Luke did have one and the film followed him. This making him the main character
Underrated comment
Peter Gonzalez they were also infinitely more interesting than any of the new characters in this movie.
Back story isn't the issue, the issue is that the characters in Rogue One aren't chartacters. They have no actual character traits. The OG characters actually felt real because they expressed different interests and ideals.
The character analysis section were all characters from trilogies. They had 3 films to develop their characters. Rogue One is a stand alone film, and had to do it in one film. I personally like Jen's character development
Um..No.
A New Hope was perfectly fine all on its own, and had sufficient character development.
George Wroe Really? Tell me Han Solo's brilliant backstory that was so fleshed out based entirely in A New Hope
Alex, OK. Please list how much you learn about Han Solo, Luke or Leia in New Hope? Do you know their past, more than Jin's? Or any other R1 charaters? No... you learn just tidbits, like in R1... your father was this and that... couple of sentences... then the movie same way focus on the present and the action. I think we learn enough about the R1 characters, to understand their situation and position in the story. Also we see enough character development, to get a good story and actually understand why they behave like this? Is it perfect or enough? No... Could it be more, yes! Is it so much worse than the other movies? Definitely not...
Yes. And after only watching the first three films you could ask the following questions:
Why is vader in a suit? (obviously)
If the jedi are the light side users, the dark side users were...?
Why is Han a smuggler? How did he meet Chewbacca? Where was he born and in what kind of environment?
Who was Luke and Leia's mother?
In Rogue One there were 6 main characters, and from the beginning we knew they were disposable. They weren't going to get out alive of their mission. That mindset tells you there is not enough time for character exposition to happen, not in 2 hours at least.
It's not just that other films were/are part of a trilogy, they are all based on characters. Rogue One is purely plot driven, so bitching about its characters is like bitching about character development in Inception.
Rogue one continues to age like fine wine
Several years later and I still love Rogue One. Did not like Solo or the Last Jedi so I not just a fan boy. I liked the War movie aspect of it. I also respectively disagree with Chris on this one.
Ok Chris.... So you are saying they should have fleshed out the characters, specifically Jyn as a child. You ask add how did she learn to fight in her years from child to adult. Then I respond by asking how did Rey learn to fight in the force awakens. You see her taken away as a kid from her parents. After that we are just led to believe she knows how to use a bo staff, fly the millineum falcon, and use a lightsaber. OHH RIGHT SHE HAS THE FORCE> THATS GREAT CHARACTERIZATION.
With all that aside I do agree though the characters were bland in Rogue one especially the "Pilot".
The Cinema Stalkers TFA had a pilot called Poe Dameron
And TFA is shit - what's your point, Twan?
The Feminist Awakens sucks compared to Rogue One.
IMO rogue one and force awakens are decent as opposed to being great. TFA's enjoyment came from nostalgia rather than doing much and while RO tries to do a lot, it only rarely goes far enough.
I liked Chris' analysis but seeing him let a film have, flaws and cop out what we know of the force(the mind reading ability at least) to give us mary sue characters be his favourite film of 2015 but having a less flawed film be seen as (with its flaws being the same) mediocre, is bullshit
This analysis shows perfectly how a large group of Star Wars fans uses totally different standards when rating the Star Wars movie generations.
The first trilogy is like the holy gral to them. They will always find a way to avoid admitting the flaws of the OT. As I like to say, nostalgia is one hell of a drug!
Almost evetything Chris points out as problems of rogue one is applicable to either the original Star Wars (which he loves) or TFA (which he loves).
Lack of backstory?! What's Han Solo's backstory again? What's Chewbacca's? How did they become friends? Why are they smuggling? What are they smuggling?
Everything we know about them, we learn from Solo's space mambo jambo about Kessel run and parsecs... but it happend '77 so we call it good characterization. In 2017, speaking of Rogue one we call this exposition scenes.
Btw Han and Chewie aren't the only ones we get little to no backstory. For example we know nothing about Yoda except that he was Ben's master.
We know very little about Vader. Why did he fall to the dark side? What has he done since joining the empire?
We know not a single thing about the emperor!!! Who is he? Where did he come from? How did he become emperor?
Oh you wonder why Jyn is a ass kicking fighter although she was a little girl a few minutes ago? You know what I wonder? Why is Luke at the beginnig of RotJ a bad ass fighting Jedi with a green sabre when at the end of tEsb he was beaten down to pieces and lost his sabre? Let me guess... there might have happened something in the time period between the two situations...
Why is that a problem in today's Star Wars movies when it wasn't back then?!
Why do we need to know every bit of history of every god damn side character these days?? Do we have unlearned to use our imagination at some point? For me this was always a major accomplishment of Star Wars. It fuels your imagination. It inspires you to think outside the box. It gives your dreams wings. Explaining everything to death would totally demystify the whole universe!
Take phantom menace for example. Up until Episode 1 we didn't really know what the force actually was. It was a blurry vision of a magic power related to a Jedi's feelings. It was an emotional myth. Till EP 1 tried to explain it with bacteria. See what I mean? Lucas tried to explain something that people had used their imagination to explore for themselves. And he failed historically and took almost all the mysterious character of the force away!
I want to adress the old footage of EP 1 reviews and the comparison with Rogue One instant interviews. What is that supposed to show. I'm 100 percent sure you'll find the same reactions of people coming out of TFA! Don't you wonder if these reviews will stand the test of time? On the other hand you'll find similar reactions from tEsb audiences and apparently they didn't change their opinions. So I don't see the point in the comparison of these interviews. You will always hear people praising shitty movies they just saw. At the same time people leaving the theaters cursing the movie. Thats ordinary.
I get what you mean by "phantom menacing" but have you thought about the possibility that some of the people who liked EP1 instantly, could still like it today? Maybe?
I know that late admitting of instant overrating is a thing bit it comes across as a little arrogant that you predict this to happen to a movie, because you didn't like it... I didn't hear you wondering if TFA could be phantom menacing too... I've seen it a couple of times now and lets just say the excitement isn't growing each time...
Leonardo Cucchiara i loved Phantom Menace as a kid and i still like it ^^
when i first saw Force awakens i thought it was pretty good. now its my least favorite.
Leonardo Cucchiara Everything you said is true
Brad Wright thanks. appreciate it!
+Ben Slashes AotC still takes the cake for me, but TFA is not far above ;) But 7 still has 8 and 9 to retroactively make it better! A lot of the things i didn't like in TFA could be fixed if the other two are done in the right way.
MartinGrozny how dare you not liking the movie with the best Love Story of all time , haha😂✌
i dont know. for me TFA has almost nothing interesting or important. i would even say that we could watch a little spoiler trailer of Episode 7 and then watch 8 and 9🤔 they wasted so much time with the Starkiller base, i think that was the worst part for me. i remember my thoughts after the movie " it felt like a big filler movie."
i wish the movie would focus more on the Adventure finding luke skywalker, with phasma chasing them.
and i hate that there again is the Empire with a different name and the rebels with a different name. its like nothing has changed after Episode 6🤔
Chris I actually agree with you, I don't think this movie would have anything going for if it weren't for the final act. But criticise the movie, not the fans. I'm perfectly fine with other people getting enjoyment out of Rogue One so saying they're deluding themselves just comes across condescending.
Thank you! I agree!
What’s Han’s backstory again? That’s right, we won’t know until 2018. You don’t have to know the backstory to understand a character.
Chirrut and Base have a really good dynamic that you get through their interaction.
Chirrut has been conflicting with Base for years trying to bring him back into the faith. Their friendship being the one thing keeping them together on Jedha as opposed to their duty.
Cassien and Jyn’s dynamic is also really good without knowing everything about them.
Both had similar upbringings, growing up into the rebellion, but because they were in different cells they had vastly different experiences.
Jyn grew up with The Partisans, very much the ‘radicals’ of the rebellion (frequent suicide bombings, not caring as much about civilian deaths) so Jyn doesn’t really see the good of the rebellion. She only sees the anger and hatred that fuels Saw Guerrera and his Partisans, and probably watched many of her friends blow themselves up in the service of the rebellion.
Whereas Cassien has been working with Mon Mothma and Bail Organa his whole career, two genuinely good hearted people who are fighting the Empire for the right reasons, unlike Saw. Yes, Cassien has done a lot of bad shit for the rebellion, but he could live with that because he saw why they were doing it. The ends justified the means. They were fueled by their hope and desire for freedom.
But The Partisans? For someone raised by them like Jyn, the end goal probably just seemed like a personal vendetta for Saw Guerrera that the people that she grew up with are blowing themselves up to try to accomplish.
Bodhi is pretty weak though.
And no, I haven’t read either the Rogue one novelization or Catalyst.
Chris I love ya but come on. Jyn goes from only caring about herself to DYING for what her father believes in. Cassian goes from a spy who does what he's told, to thinking for himself. Donnie Yen is a wise archetype character, those are already developed. (How much did Yoda or Gandalf grow as a person across 6 films?) Bodhi is weaker, but again, he goes from a slight coward to actually doing something. Baze goes from a hardened soldier to one who miiiight just believe in the force. If that's not character growth, what the hell is??
Best. Comment. I never thought someone saw the film right.
Tbf Yoda had an Arc, subtly and in the background but still. starts off head of the arrogant jedi council and charging into a war the jedi should never have gotten involved in. Then the war makes him grow spiritually to the point where he sees the error of the jedi, thinking they know everything, in which Yoda is humbled to learn new abilities (force ghosting ) and leaving his Lightsaber in the senate to follow a path where he would rely more on the force rather than his weapon that was "supposed to be his life" as young Obi-Wan would say. Then when we see him in Empire he has clearly grown more at the end 23 years of his life than the first 800. Yoda knew "Wars not make one great" because of his part in the Clone Wars, the first full scale galactic war in Yoda's lifetime. So an arc is there, its just emphasized more in the TV shows.
All this, plus no Mary Sues.
Nobody's Phantom Menacing over Rogue One. We KNOW the characters are one-dimensional. We KNOW it doesn't have much plot. It's a fan service movie. That's why it was made and that's why we watched it.
YOU, on the other hand, are SO Phantom Menacing over The Force Awakens.
Even more so over the follow ups.
But the thing is, Chris a lot of the things you say about characterisation in Rogue One you can apply to A New Hope and The Force Awakens. What do you know about Han Solo or Poe Dameron when you meet them for the first time? How did Han and Chewie become friends? We don't know we just have to fill in the gaps ourselves. You also say that lots of information about characters in R1 is spooned fed to us through dialogue and we don't see it but in ANH we learn about Obi-Wan's friendship with Anakin through dialogue. But we don't see it. We're told about Jyn's past with Saw. But we don't see it. in TFA, the entirety of Kylo Ren's back story is told to us through different characters. And we don't see it. Seeing a pattern here? I'm not saying I don't enjoy these three films, I love all of them, but you saying that the characterisation in R1 is poor when it's not exactly stellar in ANH and TFA doesn't make sense. And then you try to tell people that they don't really like R1 and are just ignoring the flaws like people did with The Phantom Menace? You are just digging a big hole for yourself. My point is, don't make these comments about R1 then act like they don't apply to other Star Wars films when they do. Just because R1 isn't what you wanted it to be doesn't make it a bad movie and it definitely doesn't mean other people's opinions on the film are wrong. This video comes across as very pretentious and condensing and I think you need to take a leaf out of your own book and don't ignore the flaws in the characterisation in ANH and TFA just because you love them.
He is possibly the worst film critic of all time. That's why he's self employed.
A better rebuttal to his character criticism is that the original trilogy never once had any flashbacks. Whenever a character spoke of the past, it was just dialogue and that was it. It was more focused on the here and now. And a character bringing up their backstory is not “anonymous”, especially not if that backstory directly informs them. Cassian saying that he’s been in the rebellion since he was 6 highlights his devotion to wanting the rebels to win the war, as well as his sometimes morally ambiguous behavior that comes from a unique upbringing. There are other examples of this one could point out.
With those movies, you had the characters develop over the course of the series. With Rogue One, the characters lived and died without you ever really getting to know them.
How was the force awakens that much better than RO? Same criticisms Chris had for RO could apply to the force awakens, and at least RO had some originality and wasn't a formulaic repeat of another movie in the series
tomahawk238 a Movie doesn’t have to have a completely original idea to be good. Stranger things doesn’t have any original ideas and is generally seen to be pretty damn good, and something can have original ideas and be bad. The characters in the force awakens have traits, motivations, and arcs but the ones in Rouge one don’t. I like the movie overall but the Force Awakens is way better.
William Wright disagree Jyn’s character goes through much more of an arc than Rey. The only character in TFA that really goes through much of a change is Finn and that’s like 5 minutes into the movie.
@@tomahawk238, you misunderstood the comment. TFA literally copies plot beats from ANH and since it’s a sequel, that makes it even worse. Stranger Things borrows ideas and does references to 80s movies but it doesn’t copy full plot beats
@@joeyjerry1586 huh? That’s pretty much what I’m saying
Isn't that the reason why Rogue One isn't part of the Saga? That it is SUPPOSED to be different from other films? Not saying it's a masterpiece, but when I was going to see it, I heard it was a war movie, but set in the Star Wars universe. Like Saving Private Ryan in space.
Duchu26 I don't think his problem was that it wasn't like the others, but that it had underwhelming writing and development
Alex Beamer But it didn't
Is it really a "war" film as the filmmakers claim it is, though? When i saw a war film, i want the characters to be scared shitless at the sight of stormtroopers. I want the stormtroopers to be seen as an actual threatening force of reckoning, not the same typical dumb aimless cosplayer that can be beaten with a plastic baton. If the film wanted to be different than the episodic saga - then it should've done so, not bothered filling it with fanservice for no good reason, not having another family-drama storyline, not (as it turns out) set it a few days before EpIV so it can connect to said film, and not in the same rating. Go for R, so you can make the battle as gritty and intense as you can.
I mean, i went to see the film expecting it to be different (as they promised), to see a war film, and i want it to challenge me whether i can welcome it as a 'Star Wars' or not. And i got neither of those - i can't even answer the latter because it didn't even challenges me. In fact, it's a pretty damn simple story - steal the Deathstar plans. Why not make it a heist film instead? Make the 'war' elements in the third act, like Inception did. That would be great.
But in Saving Private Ryan you had great character interaction. So that way when the final battle came you were really invested in their fate. While Rogue One had character interaction, it wasn't really that memorable. Except for Baze and Chirrut.
How does that pertain to weak characters...?
Hey, I didn't know I was on a Red Letter Media video.
MrMystery99 RLM is WAYYYYYY better than this garbage video. I like Chris, but he dropped the ball hard on this one
Only in the beginning, he mostly has his own style when doing these videos
Its like every character was properly introduced and explained in The Empire Strikes Back 🙃
I know right. Chris doesn’t provide the “characters need backstory” criticism for other Star Wars movies but applies it to rouge one. It’s not even like the other Star Wars films properly show the backstory of their characters.
To me backstory doesn’t matter. What really matters is how entertaining they are, and I don’t need backstory for that
Chris unfairly criticizes rouge one. He doesn’t criticize the absence of Poe’s backstory in The Force Awakens. I mean, what do we know about him? Oh yeah, he’s a pilot, which is the same for Bohdi Rook, but he criticized the rouge one character.
I think my biggest problem with this video is at 13:50 when Chris seem to say there is a "good" and a "bad" type of Star Wars fans. Star Wars has such a large fanbase, Chris said it himself at the beginning, of course you're gonna meet people who enjoyed these movies for differents reasons than yours. It might be hard to admit for some, but hardcore fans are NOT the majority. They can't expect everyone to think like them and have the same expectations.
Émile Foy-Legault I think Chris is awsome but I agree here it makes it sound like any reason for liking Star Wars other than his reason is wrong and that your not a true Star Wars fan!
It looks to me that many longtime Star Wars fans are appreciating Rogue One more because it attempted to do something different with Star Wars. While I think the likes of The Force awakens is great, it is very formuliac and plays it much too safe. Rogue One attempted to go for a darker, subdued war tone and i feel that it succeeded in many people's eyes and that's why it's being held in such high regard, as of right now at least. That said Rogue One has some major faults IMO, it had somewhat poor pacing in the first hour, CGI characters, sometimes sloppy editing, mediocre score, heavy fanservice and lack of characterisation (though the latter doesn't really bother me.) These are all valid crticisms that pull the movie down.
While Rogue One will still be looked back upon favourably for being a refreshing and different story, the amazing third act, much better use of space battles , the war setting with the rebels, taking a risk by killing off all the main heroes(like, no one in this movie had plot armour), and adding greater context and meaning to A New Hope, i feel that in a few years time we'll all just remember Rogue One as "the one that was different". Will we still remember Jyn Erso the way we remember Luke Skywalker and Rey? General audiences are more likely to gravitate towards the Sequel trilogy with its lighter tone and more memorable characters, and rightfully so, because in spite of its faults The Force Awakens still has better characters, pacing, cinematography, score and manages to appeal to mainstream audiences while still satisfying longtime fans, hence i feel it is still the overall better film. Give Rogue One a rest and eventually it'll settle into its rightful place on the Star wars ranking list: Below the Originals and TFA, but still faaaaar above the prequels.
But still, Rogue One is an enormous success and well above-average as a standalone film. I'm glad it exists for the people who couldn't get into TFA. And vice versa.
BattleUp Saber But a new tone doesn't make it that different. I saw it and I couldn't believe how much fan pandering was in it. It has a new tone but it stuck to the same formula and every minute they threw throwbacks at you which became incredibly agonising to watch. It didn't break new grounds but stayed right where the focus groups wanted it too. I didn't like The Force Awakens for the same reasons in fact TFA was far worse, hell the only reason I didn't loath the film was because I like a fun film. When Disney introduces a different story with a different timr and setting then I'll be impressed but for now its just so dull since i've seen it all before. This is why a good film can in the long run be a bad one since they take no chances and become so forgettable as time goes by.
BattleUp Saber I might not fully agree with you, but this was a well thought out and civil comment. This comment section could use more of that
Being dark and having a subdued tone doesn't somehow equate to originality and not being formulaic. There are just as many dark and edgy formulas as there are other ones.
Best comment on this thread. Civil, well thought out, and very constructive to both movies. I enjoyed both movies a lot, but left TFA feeling better because, for me personally, the characters were just so much better than in RO.
But as you pointed out, I appreciate RO for trying. Killing off the entire cast is not something anyone is writing off, ballsy for sure!
If us Star Wars fans have to live in a world where we decide between which is worse between TFA and RO (two VERY well made films) I'd say we're in a good spot!
uhhhhhh you might want to reconsider this comment now that The Last Jedi exists LOL
I appreciate your thoughts and insight into the film. However, Han Solo and his relationship with Chewbacca is an argument against most of what you just posted. And after "A New Hope" came out, what books were released? Books about Han Solo. Just like how there is a book coming out about Jyn Erso. So I'm not sure why that is a criticism. Its actually following the pattern established with the original trilogy.
Additionally, Han & Chewie's relationship mirrors that of Chirrut and Baze. In fact, what adds more depth to Baze's and Chirrut's relationship is their belief in the force. They're not force users, yet they believe in it and protect its grounds (what little they can at this point since the Empire has taken over). Chirrut and Baze's last stand in this movie actually brought tears to my eyes because you see, in Baze, faith refound. Baze is once again given something to believe in. This is a very powerful spiritual moment as well that has not been seen in these films and is a huge character moment. When is Han's past mentioned in the original trilogy or how he met Chewbacca? Is Kashyyyk ever mentioned in a side conversation? No, and I'm sure like you, I also have most of the original trilogy memorized from watching it growing up. Han was a smuggler. He captains the Falcon with his copilot Chewie. And he has a price on his head. He also went to Ord Mantell.
You've oft mentioned the opening scene with Cassian and how he "callously" shoots his informant. Yet you miss the look that crosses Cassian's face after the deed is done. There's regret, remorse, but a determination to go on for the cause. But he's conflicted, and you can feel it. Plus, he goes through a character arch similar to Han Solo's. At the beginning, he's there to get the job done. Han wants his payout, Cassian is following orders. Yet both go against these instincts to help others. Cassian decides to NOT shoot Jyn's father, even though he knows very little about her and him. Han Solo decides to return to the battle and help Luke destroy the Death Star.
You mentioned the missing dialogue from the preview that is not there to help develop a young Jyn. Its unfortunate these lines did not make the final cut. However, think about the trailer to "Force Awakens." In your review of "Force Awakens," you address the complaints about the absence of Luke Skywalker saying the filmmakers never promised Luke would be in the film. However, the biggest trailer for "Force Awakens" was NARRATED BY LUKE. He says how the force is strong in his family, his sister is added to the mix, then he says "You have that power too." So yes, fans expected Luke! We were disappointed by his 5 second cameo (and the fact he was billed HIGHER than Carrie Fisher ??? whatever). Yet you give this absence in "Force Awaken" a pass. Meanwhile, you criticize this film for not including Saw's line from the preview.
This is a film about the soldiers who didn't live to see the end of the battle. They're the soldiers from WWII who did not make it off the beach of Normandy. I think its a powerful film that gives you hope but also shows the cost of war (giving weight to the soldiers who did not make it off Hoth or the moon of Endor). Its a unique perspective that I appreciated Disney exploring.
100%. Spot on. Possibly the only thing I would have liked to have seen, and felt was coming, but did not, was when Chirrut and Baze were pinned down and couldn't reach the lever...
I felt like that moment was *crying out* for Chirrut to summon the Force and move the lever with his mind just before being gunned down, paying off his own faith in the Force while also restoring faith in Baze before he went down in a blaze of glory.
I say this, because Chirrut was obviously Force sensitive to some extent...Given that he was blind, yet could *see*, and not only see, but pull off feats that people with sight could not.
I felt that that was a missed opportunity, because all of the set-up was there, and it would have been a great pay-off. They could have put in John Williams *The Force* theme, too.
In fact, I think that they could/should have replaced the *Rogue One* theme music with that *Force* theme in general. I didn't much like the new theme and it felt out of place to me and took me out of the movie each time I heard it.
Jim Martin - I was not a fan of the musical score either. You just can't do star wars perfectly without John Williams! The music always felt either over dramatic or not enough drama to carry the emotions of the scenes.
I love your analysis. Thank you for your thoughts.
“It was a great new story, didn’t rely on other stories, really stood on it’s own.”
The only reason anybody liked it is because it leads up to Episode 4…
Yea, exactly. Something like the mandalorian stands on its own. Rouge one literally relied on episode 4
So watching TLJ doesn’t underwhelm you but this does?
troy ortiz
I'd say give it time. I feel as tho most people will find the flaws when they aren't busy defending them. Too close to it right now!
B-dawg8504 7 months later.... and TLJ is still my 2nd favorite.
Yeah, it's called subjective opinions.
Wait a minute...
All of the points you brought up here are also true for Guardians of the Galaxy, but you didn't seem to have a problem with it:
Rocket and groot have literally no backstory except that they are sort of bounty hunters.
Draxx's backstory is told to us directly by him in a few throw away lines.
Gamora is seen with nebula once or twice at the beggining of the film, then we are just told that they are sisters and daughters of Thantos later when she is talking to Peter Quill.
And finally: Peter Quill is shown at his mothers deathbed, then runs away and is taken into space, then IMMEDIATLY cuts to a Title Screen and now Peter Quill is StarLord. It doesnt show any of the journey to getting him there.
Chris, its not that I disagree with you, all your points are arguablly correct. Im just saying that I think you are digging way too deeply on this one. You usually overlook stuff like this in other movies, so I dont see how its fair to nitpick in this and tell us that all the "True Star-Wars Fans" will be disappointed by this movie.
Clap clap clap clap clap!
Luke Puffer this should be the top response. Great rebuttal. It's pretty obvious that Chris is sadly just butthurt about R1.
Luke Puffer - yeah, but you see unlike this film, James Gunn knew how to imbue his characters with actions and dialogue that expresses who they are, without any further explanation. Peter is a scoundrel but also charming. Gamora is a no-nonsense warrior. Rocket is a wise guy. And so on. I have no idea who any of the characters actually are in Rogue One. Now, can a movie still get away with that and be entertaining? Sure. The characters in The Matrix are also pretty bland and have no personality. But for a film where you already know the ending, that doesn't work as well. The Matrix works okay because it sets up mystery and suspense about what's going on, but we already know what's going to happen in Rogue One. There's no mystery around anything, so the only way to make it work is if we care about the characters, and I really don't. That's why I still like Titanic as a movie. Problems aside, it's amazing that a historical event everyone knows about can still be made exciting and tense, because it's about characters we spent time with and are now invested in. Rogue One didn't pull that off.
Stephen Leotti I disagree. Rouge one also gives characterization about as clear as guardians does. Jin was trained as a Rebel but ditched and got lost in life. Cassian was raised as a Rebel and taught that its okay to do bad things for good causes. All the charcters have their thing. Dont get me wrong, i think Guardians is a better movie. I just think rogue one is nitpicked alot
Nice comment. I wish the other top comments weren't as silly and overdramatic.
While I can agree on his analysis, he does come off as pretentious a bit at times which can put off people who did like the movie.
Did I have to read a book to love the original trilogy?
Did I have to analyze a shot in the first trailer to hate rouge one?
Samuel Marshall he dosen't hate rouge one u fucking idiot
You can make the exact argument with Han, Luke, and Leia in A New Hope.
People complain about having things explained to them. Then when things aren't explained, they complain then too. Everyone is a critic it seems. Were you entertained? Yes or no? That's all that matters
So true. Chris is becoming a hypocrite
I feel the same about Rogue 1, but not for the same reason. You don't need a 15 minute flashback scene for every character in order to give them a back story...I don't know what's with Chris and his thinking that a fleshed out character means they get a VISUAL back story...weird...
What a condescending review. “ if you like action you’ll probably like the movie but if you’re deeper then that you won’t like this movie.” Maybe I like both and am more interested in the overarching story of getting the Death Star Plans and watching a fun fan fic movie then the actual characters. I’m not delusional I just watched the movie for what it was and enjoyed it.
The movie isn't about the characters, it's about the sacrifice.
Hit the nail on the head
Exactly 👍🏻
"I grew up hating Rogue One, it was an important part of my childhood, me and my friends would have sleepovers where we all just hated on Rogue One all night"
Kearndawg1 lol 😂 so we doing this for every video now
RacistWhiteShark Yes.
Hal Jordan Nothing can ever replace "Zod's Snapped Neck"
Hal Jordan Chris has gifted us with Many memes over these past few years.
Just wondering Chris, do we ever actually learn how Han Solo and Chewbacca became friends? Why is it such a big deal for Chirrut and Baze?
Because their interactions aren't as iconic and develop.
The problem is the length the characters are in their films for. Chirrut and Baze were awesome characters that probably could have been the next Han and Chewie, but they died in their first film. People don't give a shit about how Baze and Chirrut met, but they didn't want them to die before they could learn more about them either.
In A New Hope Han and Chewie don't die so they don't need a backstory because we will see them in the next two films. But EVERYONE in Rogue One dies so we NEED to see backstory or get more interaction with them to care about them before their untimely deaths or they become underwritten and unforgettable despite how much potential they have to be badass Star Wars icons like Han and Chewie.
chris pearson - that actually might not be a bad idea.
***
Here's at least one reason why I think Baze & Chirrut were weak to me and Han & Chewie weren't: Han & Chewie are more relatable.
Han and Chewie are understandable characters to the general audience. It's an ongoing joke, but George Lucas basically even confirms it. Chewie is like Han's pet dog. We can understand the relationship between a guy and his pet. Further, the individual characters are understandable. Chewie is, like a dog, loyal and friendly to those he knows, aggressive to those he doesn't know or to those that pose a threat. It's a bit demeaning, but he basically is Han's pet. Han is also understandable and relateable. He's the cocksure pilot. He's the guy that's caught up doing questionable things, but cares enough to stand for what's right when pushed to it. He's a familiar character before we ever meet him. We don't need their backstory (I repeat, we don't need their backstory... ah, dammit) because they are understandable from the second we meet them and they are portrayed (especially Han, of course) expertly through the story and acting to tell us who they are as characters without needing to know everything (or really anything in detail,... really... dammit) about their past. We learn some of Han's past through interaction with other characters, not as exposition, but as part of the dialogue between characters with a relationship to that past, and we get just enough to understand it, because it is understandable (screwed over crime boss by dumping illegal cargo, racer, gambler, smooth talker, he's basically Burt Reynolds) and doesn't need further explanation (I said, it doesn't need further explanation... dammit).
With Chirrut and Baze, we're not quite sure what they are or why they're still hanging around each other. They're Guardians of the Whills. um... okay. WTF is that? I know what a pilot is. I know what a smuggler is. What a Guardian of the Whills? Someone assigned to protect... something... i guess. Chirrut says Baze used to be the biggest believer (not a quote). Okay. What? What did they believe in and protect? Why? Why's he get to be the biggest believer? He looks like he's just some mercenary guy with a big gun thing wrapped around his body. He doesn't seem like a monk guy, like Chirrut. So, I'm guessing not all Guardians were monk-guys, then. Did they just take anyone off the street? What are the Whills? How was he more of a believer than the blind guy that fights better than most Jedi? Why isn't Chirrut a Jedi? He's clearly Force sensitive. Heck, he seems more in tune with the Force than most Jedi do. He's old enough that he could have been a Jedi, or at least a padawan. If Baze doesn't believe anymore, why's he still hanging around? Why didn't he go do something else? Just do hang out with Chirrut? Does he have a life debt? Are they best friends? They're always together, but they don't seem to have much in common or show any real connection to each other. They're just attached at the hip for... some reason. The temple's been sacked and they're not joined with any resistance. They're just sitting around on steps seeing jewelry that people have hidden under their clothes and just being generally cryptic and weird. Their personalities are pretty much one-note. So, basically, they aren't relatable characters and anything about them that approaches being relatable usually doesn't make sense with the information we're given.
Like the rest of the movie, they look cool, though.
That is such a great point. I never thought of that.
Chris Pearson, thanks. I must have missed that scene in the movie. I don't know that it helps them as characters or explains much of what i have questions about.
So glad to find I’m not the only one who didn’t connect with this film, I thought the whole world had gone mad when people were saying it was the best Star Wars film since Empire. I definitely agree that I like it less each time I watch it.
I actually loved Rogue One. And specifically because the characters didn’t individually stand out to me. [SPOILER ALERT] When they all died in the end, without me fully knowing them as people I found it beautiful and meaningful. We’ve heard about this event for decades, and never had a face to put along with it, and seeing them snuffed out before even getting to fully interact mirrored that reality of history being lost. Not only that, but there was something so human, so soft and vulnerable and relatable about them simply dying at the end of their own movie. Unlike the stars of other movies, they aren’t immortal, they don’t get to live through multiple storylines and cheat death forever. It is the only movie I have seen to truly make me cry, as the explosion overtook them and I looked outside at the falling snow, alone in my house. It was beautiful :)
7:55
"Most everyone, myself included, liked Harrison Ford's portrayal of 'Han Solo', and Peter Mayhew as his friend, 'Chewbacca'. Their friendship was a bright spot in the film. Yet, as you might expect, we know nothing about either of them, save for what we're told."
*cut to film audio:* "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs. I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers mind you, I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now."
"Why did these two become friends? Why is Han a smuggler? How can they even communicate if they don't speak the same language? Who knows? Maybe a book will go into it one day."
Thank you, that's exactly what I was thinking.
The same goes for Darth Vader:
"A young Jedi named Darth Vader -- who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil -- helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force."
"When I left you, I was but a learner. Now I am the master."
Why does Vader wear a mask? How was he seduced by the Dark Side of the Force? Why did he kill Luke's father?
The Polaris Airship this is perfect, seriously
The point is they are all dead now and we dont have 3-6 huge budget movies to learn more or grow with the characters, THEY ARE DEAD WE DONT KNOW SHIT, WE DONT CARE AND WE NEVER WILL.. DURRRR.
You're missing Chris's point entirely. The problem is not that the characters don't have explicit backstory, it's that they have no characterization. And that Han Solo quote shows why he's memorable and why we care! It's because he has an actual personality that's expressed through his dialogue. In the context of the scene, Han is getting very defensive of the Falcon and he's bragging about how great it is. This adds to his arrogant personality. From Chirrut's dialogue in Rogue One, he's just explaining "THIS IS WHO BAZE IS AND THIS IS WHAT HE DOES." We have to be straight-up TOLD who Baze is, because it's not shown through his actions and dialogue. He has no real personality that's memorable.
To answer your hypothetical questions: The audience doesn't care about how they became friends because they actually feel like real friends through their interactions. That never happens in Rogue One between Chirrut and Baze, we're just told that they're friends. We don't have to be told why Han is a smuggler because he has an interesting personality that shows. Baze on the other hand, has no personality. So when you provide the audience with personal connections and personality, the audience doesn't care about the backstory. That's the difference between A New Hope and Rogue One.
Except Han and Chewey weren't in a stand alone film where all the characters died at the end. ANH developed Han and Chewey through their actions and dialogue, so back story wasn't necessary because of that fact. If Rogue One wanted us to care about any of its characters deaths, character development was absolutely necessary in some form. So, if you don't develop them through their dialogue and actions (which this movie didn't), then you need some back story to get us to care. Rogue One gave neither of these. So, we didn't know who they were, nor did we really care when they all died at the end.
Chris really wanted a five hour movie. But let's be real if they would have fleshed out all the characters like he's explaining the "it was boring" complaints would have been everywhere. The movie was fine now for god sake review Speed Racer (2008) and leave this movie that was perfectly fine alone.
Thanks God Bless (:
I just want the speed racer review and to hear him say the anime is apart of his childhood. And I never said his opinion was wrong or he shouldn't say it just it be a way longer movie and people would say it's boring lol SPEED RACER FOR GODSAKE CHRIS
3 years later and rogue one is probably considered to be the best Disney made sStar Wars film and the best Star Wars movie outside the OT
Zack Tobin that’s still not saying much tho haha
For me it's 5,4 then rogue one, then 6.
Liked it that much. Has some problems, but 6 has more imo
adam g I think everything post ESB has been very flawed, it’s all about what parts you like of each movie. After ANH and ESB, my faves are ROTJ, ROTS, Solo, AOTC, TFA, TLJ, TPM, R1, and finally TROS. I was a kid when the prequels came out and still remember seeing them in theater so they have a bit of an advantage when compared to the Disney era.
Wait 17 more years.
Dude, you compared Jyn's character arc to Luke, Neo and Bourne which are part of fucking trilogies. Plenty of time to develop characters. Rogue One is a standalone movie so it doesn't really have the time to flesh out everybody's backstory. It would probably have ended in loads of exposition which was one of the major issues with the prequels. And finally, could you please tell me how Han and Chewie met?
Not quite sure I enjoy the way you categorise those who like this film. I really like Rogue One, but I'm not someone who just watches Star Wars for flashy action scenes etc. The fact that this is not a saga movie I had different expectations, so the fact that the characters weren't that deep or anything didn't quite bother me. When the film was pitched, they explained it as how some rebels managed to acquire the Death Star plans. Rogue One delivered on that, I can't ask for much more.
Also, the argument that the books shouldn't have to be read to enjoy or appreciate the film is simply bullshit. If the events of Catalyst and the Jyn backstory book were also crammed into this film, you'd complain about the fact way too much is going on. Sacrifice had to be made somewhere to have the film still be coherent
I agree that the film is weak in that the characters are not very fleshed out, and that it relies on action sequences to get you through it, but in this case I really do not care. If this was the next installment of the sequel trilogy I would certainly be a lot more upset that I didn't like the characters in Rogue One, but since they all literally die I don't care as much. Obviously that's no excuse to not flesh out characters, but like I said before, this film was supposed to tell how the Death Star plans were attained, and it does that perfectly. It compliments ANH very well if you want to watch them back to back, and also fixes a plot hole in ANH too. There's not much more I really wanted from this film, and you're not on some higher level of intellect for expecting more Chris
Also, I feel I have to mention that I love TFA too. I'm not blinded by distaste for that film that I want Rogue One to be held to some high standard. They're both pretty great.
Congratulations Chris! I didnt think It was possible to split your perfectly loyal fanbase.
Seriously man, I was with you for a very long time and I ALWAYS respected your opinion. But I never expected you to mock other people's opinions. That is something a 12 year old would do.
That is the biggest problem I have with this video is that he doesn't "analyze" anything. Chris just states that he didn't like the film and anyone who doesn't agree with him is just phantomenacing.
I don't care that he did not like the film but I do care about how he talks to people with differing opinions.
Mate Star Wars has become a shit franchise that Disney is just milking for easy money from stupid fanboys.
grow up
@@BledsoeBluvd Exactly, he stated his opinion. People need to suck it up and stop being offended whenever someone says rogue one isn't the fucking godfather. I liked the whole movie, yet I'm not crying about it.
This is how I felt about Force Awakens. I came out very disappointed and still don't get why everyone thinks it's so amazing. I do agree that the main two characters in the film are very dull and I didn't care much for them at all. Luckily I did like the other characters and the premise and action.
Can't agree at all. I thought Finn was cool and relatable because he was so grounded and always had to think on his feet. Not at all "dull" and Rey was enjoyable to a point.
@@Gadget-Walkmen Finn had the potential to be so interesting but then they just made him the comic relief shouting ''REY'' all the time and pretty much ignored that he had been a Storm trooper. Rey herself I found very bland. Daisys poor acting didn't help.
Imagine Chris getting that hentai sound effect
Still don't get all the hate for Rogue One, I really enjoyed it.
I mean, I usually like Chris's videos, but this is just a rant video, my first legit dislike for you Chris, I really like this movie, and was a war movie in space, did what it was suppose to, with flaws, yes, but all movies have flaws, but if it expanded into so much backstory, it would be a very boring ass movie.
TheEditor For some strange reason to which I'm grateful, Disney went ahead with a Star Wars film that defied the conventions - both in form and content - of what fans expect from their favourite franchise. The miracle is that instead of trolling the fans with lousy filmmaking ala Lucas, Disney trolled them with good - even great - filmmaking.
What is actually good filmmaking in Rogue One - and I could go in depth about it - was perceived as trolling by the fans. Brief example:
Rogue One hates exposition. No opening scrawl, the characters aren't exposing how they feel all the time and when they do they get a "you are full of shit" answer. Instead, Rogue One makers know they have resources to pull the theme visually: as good as it is, in ANH the power of the Death Star is not felt because of the FX, it's felt because Alec Guinness is so great reacting to it. In Rogue One you actually see the Death Star as a celestial object, in the horizon, eclipsing the sun and blasting cities with nuclear iconicity.
Too me, that'a top notch filmmaking. Too SW fans, it's confusing, uninteresting and even depressing.
Yea it's a fun popcorn flick, but even the first time I viewed it I noticed the lack of character depth. It feels like you're introduced to these characters, then they die. The end. It seems like this movie would've benefited from being 2 movies, but that would require actually writing an interesting backstory for each character so when they die we didn't feel like we just met these people so why should we even care.
The book that was supposed to give backstory to this movie "Catalyst" was god awful boring so that sure wasn't it. I doubt the Jyn book would be any good either because it would lack the 3 most likable characters from the movie. (The Robot, The Blind guy and the Heavy weapon guy. See I can't even remember their names because they were so disposable)
Chris enjoyed it as well, he just didn't love it.
ChrosTV doubt it, even after watching it a few times over, he basically said that sucked the little enjoyment I had for this movie right out. Seems like he still wants this to be a strictly "Star Wars" movie, but the reason why it is ROGUE ONE: A Star Wars Story, because it isn't a traditional Star Wars movie.
Rogue one sucked? Tell that to Zod's snapped neck.
I'm sorry Chris
thenintendoplace I guess this makes of some kind of Rogue One Analysis.
And you were Phantom Menacing The Force Awakens Chris lol
I try to watch this movie a few times a year and yea so far I still love it
The toxicity of the Star Wars fanbase genuinely makes me cringe. Chris, and others who criticize movies like R1 for that matter, aren't trying to tell you that you shouldn't like this movie, or that their opinions are objectively correct and that they're smarter than you for not liking it. They're simply trying to offer you a different perspective to view the movie from. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Personally, I don't agree with all of Chris' points, but I'm not about to lash out like some hostile fanboy with a Darth Vader toy stuck in my head.
Also, I love how the first instincts of a lot of you is to try and shift the hate towards The Force Awakens. I don't care what you think of TFA, it's not going to effect my opinion on R1
yes but at the end he said you can like the movie as long as you recognize the problems as if they were objective
He literally talked down to people who enjoyed this movie. Thats bullshit
he makes up until four videos to tell us he dislike rogue one, now tell me, who is the one that toxic?
Yeah but. Chris basically DID tell everyone they shouldn't like this movie....and even went as far as insulted everyone does as easily impressed, brainless Star Wars fans.
Who the hell is he to tell anyone they need to do anything in regards to any movie? Oh, we need acknowledge the flaws for Chris to accept our opinion? What if we legitimately don't SEE the flaws he see's? What then?
You're trying to compare trilogies of character development to one movie. That to me screams amateur Chris.
I think he was more focusing on how the movie just plain didn't have enough character development period. I'd have to agree with him.
No. He said in the video that Luke was different from when he was on tatooine then he was fighting Vader. No shit. This isn't a character development movie. Every movie doesn't work that way. I disagree with him that there isn't one. The main male character has decent character development in the film and was an interesting character.
Ok, but that is one point. He had many others, mostly having to do with the poor character development and how it was hard to root for a lot of the characters. The biggest problem being Jyn, I even had to look up her name just now because she was so forgettable.
Dude, are you... phantom menacing? 😱
again that's fine. His argument had an amateur feel to it. that's what I'm saying.
Revenge Of the Sith is better than Force Awakens, it's a carbon copy of a New Hope but ruins it by making Rey OP & turned Kylo Ren into such a weak villan, even Finn put up a fight, Finn should have focused on being the next Lando & Poe the next Han. Instead they played around with Finn's underdeveloped character & lightsaber fight scenes.
Again with the prequels hate unbelievable how much youtube reviewers kick and spit on George lucas and the prequels. He gave us the best movie franchise ever and all he gets is hate. not to mention the way young Jake Lloyd is treated the young guys is bullied mercilessly online .here we are year's on from phantom and guy's like stuckman are still at it .and you call yourself a star wars fan.
It is bizarre. TPM is 18 years old and they still can't get over it! For me I think it's a great movie. I've watched it "500 times" No. Not really but as much as any of the other SW movies.
Honestly the characters have no backstories is the point of the movie. It's a bunch of nobody rebels who grouped up and accomplished something extraordinary. From nothing to something. And they all sacrificed their meaningless lives for the greater good of delivering the plans to the people that actually does matter: Leia.
The actual "important" characters do get backstories. Jyn, Galen and Krennic.
I dont care about back stories too, just interesting characters (which were Krennic, K-2so, Donnie Yengs character and his buddy Blaze)...everyone else just seemed monotone boring though, which sucks moreso for the main protagonist. (Edit note: backstories aren't essential to create good characters is what i meant)
Tom Chen thank you!! Finally someone who sees it
THANK YOU! This is exactly what I was trying to say but couldn't find the words!!!
I we are supposed to care about our protagonists unfortunate demise then good written character depth and backstory is kind of fucking essential don't you think?
How seen a bunch of nobodys succeed in something that WE KNOW they will succeed and dying make a compelling story/movie?
How is that a point?
Krennic and Galen get backstories in Catalyst, not in Rogue One.
i respect your opinions but i disagree on many levels
Damn Chris.. You are my favorite movie reviewer, and although I have not agreed with your opinion before, I think this is your worst video you have made.
I don't NEED to know the entire life of Jyn or any of the other guys. Knowing that she grew up in the star wars universe as an orphan is more than enough to know how she became badass. So yes, you actually can fill in the rest of her backstory. I think there was plenty of emotional, caring scenes. If we should have gotten a backstory for all these characters it would again need to be a trilogy. I for one really enjoy the fact that this is a (semi)-stand alone movie and don't need to see more sequels to finish the story. I am glad they sticked to the point with the journey of how they received the plans of the death star. You exaggerate the issues the movie has, and that's because you probably watched it too many times in a short period of time.
For me, rogue one was a much better movie than force awakens. I walked out of force awakens with mixed feelings, but I simply thought Rogue one was great!
Exactly the captain guy he said was “the most dull” was my favorite you knew everything you needed to about him and his characterization was actually pretty close to Han Solo in a new hope I like Chris but this video honestly just makes me angry when I watch it
I think Chris wants to hate Rogue One so much because fans love it more than Episode VII and now the entire sequel trilogy.
Why is he hating on Jin because she had little back story but is okay with ray having no back story at all
Han's backstory wasn't explained in A New Hope, and nobody minded.
Because Rey is an interesting character
123rockfan mysterious more than interesting... THough I liked her many people were turned off by her mary-sue-ness
123rockfan so is Jin
she has two more films to do backstory
Is Stuckmann aware that he's created a meme with this "I grew up with" thing?
I get your criticisms but I didn’t have a problem with the jumpy time/location jumps or lack of deep characterization because I think it served this movies theme. The idea was that this wasn’t a big prophecized hero story like the skywalker saga, it’s a scrappy war movie depicting a rag tag mission against the evil bad guys that just so happen to be the empire and darth Vader from those Star Wars movies you know. I think the fact that these are characters that nobody would know or have seen otherwise in Star Wars lore was the point of this movie, its about the myriad of small seemingly inconsequential characters, worlds, and actions that due to the immense Star Wars canon, are ignored for sake of brevity in the main saga.
And only knowing about the characters but what is told by the movie helps to leave the backstory of the main characters open to imagination, letting the massive already expanded and ever expanding canon they have to work with fill in the blanks
This is probably the review of yours I disagree with most, take for instance Cassians intro. Yeah it’s quick and not explained, but that’s the point. You get what you need to know, he’s a scoundrel type runnig from the law, and if you love the world of Star Wars you start making connections. Maybe he’s a Han Solo type tried to make the kessel run when he was younger, maybe he’s had run ins with bounty hunters on the lower levels of corucant. If you love learning about the Star Wars canon and the world it’s crafted over all these years you will like this movie. If you like Star Wars for the characters you know cause you liked those movies, you probably won’t like this movie.
You hit the nail on the head
Well said 👍🏻
when people say that this movie is the best in the series it upsets me because they say "not everything needs to be explained!" and "Its great because it stands on its own!" but the thing is, you could say this cant be the best in the series even before it came out because you cant flesh out and explain each characters backstory and tell the story at the same time in one movie, and fans of this movie will say this as a defense, but this movie is kind of setting it self up for this, and I'll say it again, people will say this a defense "you cant do all this in one movie and they still gave us a great movie!" But it cant be the best when having characters we almost know nothing about is part of the template for the film.
Just waiting on the MCU denial video
LOL same.
Don't mind me, just a non-angry comment passing through
Have fun
After all these years i ran into this video. Chris basically is going: "Why do you like it? Why do you like it?! Why do you disagree with me?!!😢 You're delusional! After 10 years I'll be vindicated!!!" Well, it's been 5 years and i still like the movie.
A reshoot/retcon/reboot TFA is better than a fresh new stuff prequel?! Really Chris?! The point of Rogue One is about a group of characters and not character development! Is about a group that will die! That's the point!
They die at the end but the audience doesn't care. That's why it's important.
Shouldn’t you be emotionally invested in them as people, though? Shouldn’t they feel like people so that their deaths actually mean something? The three characters that drive the plot are boring and poorly defined, whereas that supporting characters are better written, more fun to follow, and better fleshed out than Bodey/Brodey, Cassian, and Jyn combined. Jyn is just “I rebel.” Okay? Cassian is just shoot everyone and everything with a stoic poop face. And Bodey is just him saying “I’m the pilot” for two hours. When he says “save for what we’re told” he means that the movie (save a very few select scenes) is that their characterization is heavily driven by expository dialogue and mot their actions, and when their actions do show some aspect of their character, it’s incredibly barebones and not very interesting at all. TFA gives us characters with clear motives, arcs, and personalities live symbiotically with their actions, dialogues, and interactions. Also, TFA was a tonally distinct homage to New Hope, whereas Rogue One is literally meant to explain a relatively “who cares” detail about the plot in New Hope, so which film stands on its own better?
ummm yea it is actually