When Should the State Act? | Episode 26 | Everything is Everything
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- What is the duty of the state? It's limited. When should it intervene? Only at specific times. In this episode, we lays out a framework for looking at this question, with freedom as a default.
Welcome to Episode 26 of Everything is Everything, a weekly podcast hosted by Amit Varma and Ajay Shah.
This episode is sponsored by THE PUNE PUBLIC POLICY FESTIVAL, which takes place on January 19 & 20, 2024. The theme this year is TRADEOFFS. Click here for more details, and to register: www.pppf.in/
If you like watching Everything is Everything, please like, please subscribe, please share, please comment! Now! Do it!
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Packaging
00:14 Introduction: Now Immanuel Kan
05:23 Chapter 1: What Should the State Do?
24:27 Chapter 2: When Should We Intervene?
38:44 Chapter 3: Learning by Doing
43:34 Our Sponsor's Message
45:03 Chapter 4: Ajay's Recco
46:17 Chapter 5: Amit's Recco
USEFUL RESOURCES:
1. Amit on Twitter: / amitvarma
2. Ajay on Twitter: / ajay_shah
3. The Seen and the Unseen -- Amit's audio podcast: seenunseen.in/
(Also on all podcast apps. And CZcams, though less than 1% of listens come from here: www.youtube.com/@TheSeenAndTh...)
4. Ajay's organisation, XKDR Forum, on CZcams: / @xkdr
5. In Service of the Republic -- Vijay Kelkar and Ajay Shah: amzn.eu/d/hwGILb3
6. The Art of Clear Writing -- Amit's writing course: indiauncut.com/clear-writing/
7. Understanding the State -- Episode 25 of Everything is Everything.
8. How 32-bit Float Recording Works on the Wireless PRO: • How 32-bit Float Recor...
9. The RODE Wireless PRO is NUTS! -- Review by DLSR Video Shooter: • The RODE Wireless PRO ...
10. $800,000 to Zero - The FASCINATING History of DaVinci Resolve -- Learn Color Grading: • $800,000 to Zero - The...
11. Indian Colours: www.indiancolours.com/
12. State Building -- Francis Fukuyama: amzn.eu/d/2AihRzw
13. Ajay Shah on the Dangers of Digital Public Infrastructure -- Episode 72 of Brave New World: bravenewpodcast.com/episodes/...
14. The Art and Science of Economic Policy -- Episode 154 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vijay Kelkar and Ajay Shah): • Ep 154: The Art and Sc...
15. Amit Varma on Public Choice Theory in a mashup of The Seen and the Unseen & The Pragati Podcast: • Ep. 121: Public Choice...
16. Public Choice:A Primer -- Eomonn Butler: iea.org.uk/publications/resea...
17. Solutions When the Solution is the Problem: Arraying the Disarray in Development -- Lant Pritchett and Michael Woolcock: www.sciencedirect.com/science...
18. Centrally Sponsored Government Schemes -- Episode 20 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Pranay Kotasthane): • Ep. 17: Centrally Spon...
19. South India Would Like to Have a Word -- Episode 320 of The Seen and the Unseen (w RS Nilakantan): • Ep 320: South India Wo...
20. How I Reversed My Type 2 Diabetes -- Episode 9 of Everything is Everything: • How I Reversed My Type...
21. The Subsidiarity Principle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidi...
22. Yes Minister -- Jonathan Lynn and Antony Jay: amzn.eu/d/5GdvJp0
23. Yes Prime Minister -- Jonathan Lynn and Antony Jay: amzn.eu/d/1GqCN6z
24. Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed -- James C Scott: amzn.eu/d/3iKKmZx
25. Cicada -- Shaun Tan: amzn.eu/d/7OF6Fdj
26. Why Freedom Matters -- Episode 10 of Everything is Everything: • Why Freedom Matters | ...
Produced by Amit Varma
Shot by Vaishnav Vyas and Nomsita MS Haritashya: / vaishnav.vyas
Edited by Nomsita MS Haritashya: / nomsitaharitashya
Thanks to Gaurav Chintamani for helping with sound: / gaurav_chintamani
Chapter images & additional illustrations by Simahina: / i_am_simahina
Well. This is one way to remember it is Friday already. Chalo aaj ka matter sorted h.
Can't believe that such invaluable knowledge is being thrown on lay men and women like us free of cost by these two. Utterly grateful!
Btw, why don't you think of giving us a tour of that gigantic bookshelf that is winking and tempting us all the while when you both are throwing such pearls of public policy!?
And who's doing these arts that pops out when shifting from one section to another? These are phenomenal!
The bookshelves just happen to contain the books they do, and there's nothing special about these. Both of us have thosands of books, and these aren't specially selected.
The art is by Simahina. (It's a pseudonym.) You can find Simhina on Twitter at twitter.com/i_am_simahina
I never got to study social sciences post my 10th standard even though I absolutely love the subject. Seen and Unseen & Everything is everything is just just like an undergrad social science class for me. Thank you isn't enough.
Thank you for this episode. I have read the Kelkar-Shah book. I have also taken its MooC at Coursera. So this was a good refresher.
We know that you have the episode themes figured out already but in case you are open to suggestions from your regular 'gentle readers' as to what we will want both of you to talk about, here are some suggestions:
1. Upskilling especially in the context of public policy: Kelkar-Shah book mentions formal analysis of evidence, cost-benefit analysis, impact evaluation, and systematic measurement. These are not just concepts but also specialized skill sets. I know this qualifies for a separate MooC on its own but maybe, a show too.
2. Social Protection: Its primer but perhaps also some banal details about achieving effective outcomes in terms of targeting eligible beneficiaries, avoiding duplication, leveraging technology, etc.
3. Career counseling- We know the cliche: 'Make passion your profession' but it is easier said than done. At times, whole lives go by without realizing what it is that really fascinates us and then how to turn it into a profession. It is sad. so what will you say to your 18-year-old nephew who will come to you asking what should he do in life.
4. A sequel to the productivity episode with more recommendations and practical demos
Thank you for 'Everything'. It means 'everything'.
thank you.
Worth listening twice
Amit bhai dictator toh hain, lekin kaunsa Amit bhai, yeh maine nahi kaha.(a la Rahat Indori) 😂😂 ..
On a serious nite, wonderful discoursr on public policy. How great will it be to get this dialogues in a document format? Anyway, thank you EiE team for this great service you are providing us.
Love the Amit Shah wordplay
Treasure of knowledge 💡
i read cicada after it was recommended in TSATU, great stuff!
Hi Amit, request you to just go through the books in the background and take inputs or comments from Ajay...probably a personal library walk on one Sunday for gentle readers:)
These books just happen to be there, and are a small portion of the books either of us own. Nothing special about them.
@@amitvarma thanks for the update.
31:31 Amit Bhai 😂, Mr. Shah 😂
This episode is exactly what I was waiting for! What a masterclass in public policy ❤
Hi Amit and Ajay Sir,
First of all, thank you for blessing us with such great content.
If you guys find it interesting, would love to see an episode covering how both of you study, how has that changed over the years and any other thoughts around that.
As someone interested in learning about the world, I thing a lot of us struggle with getting engaged in a lot of things at once, getting pulled in all directions and not making progress towards any single one.
So, anything on how much and how do both of you study, and how to make that effective and efficient would be very helpful.
yes. also see czcams.com/video/-RHpE-B89Qg/video.htmlsi=2RIvlvNylHOCB48w
Ajay is finally resigned to the fact that there is no escaping Amit's dad-jokes.
Even my girlfriend is supremely annoyed by my dad-jokes. I have tried to explain to her that I borrow this tendency from the great podcaster and two-time Basitat prize winner Amit Varma. She seems unimpressed by the fact that, of all things I mentioned about you, I am learning to use dad-jokes at inappropriate moments.
Will certainly keep you updated on her journey towards warming up to dad-jokes and; Everything is Everything :P
Hey Amit ji, can you take a lecture on how to be a storyteller like you
Indian colors was a sponsor to the Seen unseen also. Yep.
Has this 'state' series not been shot at a stretch? Or did you change clothes to throw us off?
Do you guys meet up every week to shoot the eps. Tell us a bit about your production process.
Amit is a serious hard working Indian child. He spends weeks preparing for each episode. He reads 1000 pages for each episode. The multistage production process leading to a release every week is reminiscent of Zara.
Amit sponsored by Indian colours again. The world has come full circle.
Throwback to the old days of TSATU
I think most Indians (including me till very recently) think that coercion is the way the world works. That not only do good things require some coercion - but coercion is the only way something good can be achieved (Good things happen *because of coercion*). Its probably because of the way I (and other Indians) were brought up, in an environment of a lot of coercion and little innovation.
If you could do some episode/segment debunking this, I think it has a high chance of going viral
This episode and the previous one are the big picture.
Our speaking works for certain kinds of audiences. For the rest, the ideas might percolate on their own.
In the past in India the knowledge on the machinery of freedom has been absent. Now we are seeing the early start of a literature and a community. It's nice and new.
@@ajayshah5705 Thank you for everything you do, but sometimes I feel establishing that common ground is desperately needed. For you guys it may seem like stating the obvious. But I literally had to rewatch parts of the freedom episode to remind myself why freedom is better than coercion from even a utilitarian standpoint. Somehow it is really hard for me to understand freedom..
Maybe this is an exercise I can try - for an everyday good thing, think of a coercive explanation (which is easy) and a "double thank you" explanation. Sorry for the long rant, but I had to write it down to make it clearer in my head :)
@@apoorvumang Thank you for giving us this place in your life. I fully get what you are going through :-) There will not be a single new idea that will do the trick. It is many pieces, it is an integrated picture, and all the pieces are internally consistent. Yes, you do right to connect to "the freedom episode" (czcams.com/video/NdNvoN6FXLw/video.htmlsi=Gyas5rZH0jTWXud5) which is actually Indian economic history, for all of us in India, the Indian story is our source material based on which to think.
So here's a quiz question for you : What's the correct zone of state intervention in the world of vaccines and vaccination?
@@ajayshah5705 tbh I'm more interested in the "understanding the world" aspect of your conversations, rather than what public policy the state should do. But I will be a good student and try to answer the quiz:
Assuming state intervention is needed (positive externality market failure), among the 4 factors you highlighted, probably transactions, discretion and stakes are the relevant ones (secrecy doesnt seem relevant to me).
High transaction, low discretion/stakes intervention would be where state workers/hospitals provide free and mandatory vaccines for all babies.
A lower transaction, but higher discretion/stakes intervention could be state subsidizing production and distribution of certain vaccines which pediatricians throughout the state are required to stock and provide at minimal cost.
The 'correct' choice probably depends on state capacity (?) but I would prefer something like option 2 in India. Not sure what you meant by zone
I didn't expect Mr Shah to be talking about Magic Mike.. oh sorry did he say "magical mics"? Never mind then :)
On the subject of using common English words/phrases in a specific way, Physics does tend to do this e.g., velocity, energy, Big Bang etc.
What should do the state do when individual incentives don't align with the group incentives e.g., tragedy of the commons. I suppose this could be categorized as a negative externality allowing the state to intervene?
Similarly, when technology or globalization leads to job losses, should the state step in and help the affected indivdiuals in transitioning to a new career. Not doing so may lead to social upheavels which again might be categorized as a negative externality?
Does the free market lead to the emergence of a fair and balanced media? If it doesn't, even state intervention might be problematic. Is there a way to achieve this?
Re: diabetes as a north vs south thing: I googled this and looking at some pictures (youtube doesn't like me posting links), while the north/south holds, the rural/urban picture looks starker.
When firm 1 launches a superior product that harms the business interests of firm 2, that's not a negative externality 🙂
"Tragedy of the commons" fits well in the standard toolkit.
There was no cold open?
We decided not to have teasers any more after the viewer feedback in the comments of ep 25.
@@amitvarma I just went through that comments.. And i wanted to share my feedback. Teaser makes me excited and curious to watch the whole video in one go or as 'masala' in the podcast.
Teaser was good. Prepared us for the episode better.
I said in the last comments too. In addition to the above points. The teaser is a good hook for new viewers.
was the tshirt and mic bit a sponsorship?
No. If it were, we would tell you.
How the stakes are lower, when government school teacher does not turn up to teach. I feel the stakes are higher here or rather equivalent to the criminal justice system, because in long term, the effects on students not receiving education is a high cost to the nation (not state). I too suffered when the government school I was studying did not have teacher during the my crucial years of 11-12th grades and I feel if only I had proper guidance, I would have benefitted more.
Second, the mention of chai, Mr Shah, dictator, Amit bhai makes me feel wary of this show coming under the radar and might get cancelled or taken off from public view
Focus on the principal-agent problem between the interests of the government organisation and the interests of the employee.
When that employee is a policeman, there are vast possibilities in enforcing / letting off a person faced with criminal charges. Now there is a big gap (owing to "high stakes") between the interests of the employee (the policeman) and the interests of the organisation.
With a school teacher, at best, the school teacher gets to obtain the income of a government school teacher (~ Rs.15,000 a month) while doing no work. Yes, there is a mismatch between the personal incentive of the school teacher (to get the wage without working) vs. the incentives of the organisation (to get teaching done). But the wedge is relatively modest -- it's Rs.15,000 a month which is a small number.
I get what you are saying to some extent, thanks for the cue. So based on all four criteria, interventions should be planned and executed. Here, state should prioritize intervening at Criminal Justice system and then second comes education. Need to dig deeper into this to understand better. Thanks.@@ajayshah5705
Or even more basic. Recognise that certain interventions are hard and others are not hard. Commensurately plan the effort. Monetary policy is easy, financial regulation is hard. www.mayin.org/ajayshah/MEDIA/2010/finance_vs_MP.html
Thanks for the recommendation. I have read it before.. Reading it again. Education is a hard intervention and absence of teacher effects the whole class or school. In my example out of 30+ student only 1 student moved to different school, my parents did not seek new pastures and I had the naivety to believe that I can do without teachers.
Now, time to pick up the book of yours which I had left in between. Thanks to you I am thinking about issues at a deeper level. For example, where I live, came across a case where the local authorities (BBMP, BTP) were acting in silos because of lack of structure in their working and harming general public at large. Thanks @@ajayshah5705
The employee of the government does not care about the consequences of their actions. They are only maximizing for themselves. So for a teacher the Pinnacle of achievement is grabbing the salary without doing any work. And our job as policy thinkers is to rearrange the flow of money so that they are unable to achieve this. Education vouchers are a good solution.
👁️👄👁️ gutter oil is waste & used oil from big restaurant, slaughterhouse fat, sewage waste etc.. Yuck😢
Oh come on. Gutter oil makes the tastiest pakoras
Strangers have the best candy.
😂😂👌🏾
@@ajayshah5705 totalitarian governments promote the best kind of freedom