Why do Jubilee Line trains make that noise?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- You know the one.
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That noise is one of the most satisfying things on the underground honestly
best noise on the underground!
That and cam-shaft 1972 stocks
One of the best noises of all time
The Siemens Taurus is a good one on that note 🎶🎵🎶🎶
No.
I've loved that sound since I was a kid
It sounds so futuristic in a way, like something mechanical is spooling up
PMSL, it is.
I associate the noise with school trips to central,
Paddy Kingsland and the Radiophonic workshop beckon!
I like it for the exact same reason, it just sounds so cool. that and i associate it with fun days out.
hi this is so true
This noise is genuinely half of why the Jubilee line is my favourite on the underground. I specifically love the noise as it comes into the station, the slowing down and then braking is just so nice.
Frr
Omg I thought it just me haha😂
Deeeeoooowww deeeeooooooooooow deep!
I would prefer a sound of Boris Johnson singing glory britannia
You'll love travelling Munich's undergrounds on the S Bahn then!
This phenomenon is quite widespread among trains. Fun fact: Siemens ES64U2 "Taurus" trains were specifically programmed so that the thyristors used to convert the single-phased AC into three-phased AC for the motors will hum in the D dorian mode (sound sample here: czcams.com/users/shortsqIaXQ6Dazv8). The reason is that this sound was thought to be more pleasant to hear than possible alternatives.
I think the Keikyu N1000 series trains (whose motors are also manufactured by Siemens) sound better since they are tuned to the more familiar Ionian mode: czcams.com/video/2h9atpN75b4/video.html
Those pesky japanese one upping everyone again!
To delve more deeply into this ... actually the Keikyu N1000 sound is either the Myxolydian mode (if you base it on the first note) or the Aeolian mode (if you base it on the final, top note). There are 9 notes altogether, i.e. an octave +1. Going back to the Taurus trains, again the mode depends on which note you base it on. If the last note, it's Dorian, and if the first note, it's Myxolidian. The issue is that the so-called church modes are all related to each other in that they're each an 8-note section of the same extended scale, but they each start on a different note.
I have spent many years travelling on the trains in Austria and love their musical hum as they depart.
What sounds more satisfying than a starting Taurus? Exactly: A starting Taurus on a slippery rail (the Taurus has four independent inverter-motor-groups all of them can wheelslip independently as well): czcams.com/video/iMYqWHnE9ww/video.html or czcams.com/video/Q_bF1Wb_pSE/video.html
They're *getting louder*? This is the best news I have heard all week, how many years have these things got left in them, 20? I look forward to them reaching their full glory.
Sorry what did you just say ? I couldn't hear you 'cos of those blasted noisy tube trains!! 🤣🤣
@@stephenpegum9776well that's the thing, isn't it. If my grandfather is anything to go by, in 20 years I'll be as deaf as post and watching the news at 120 dB, so they'll actually sound exactly the same to me.
One looks forward to a Triple Concerto for 3 Tuned Thyristors and Chamber Orchestra.
Move over, Leroy Anderson.
Sometimes motors do get louder as they age
WHAT?
Finally, Jago answeres the question that us Tube nerds have always asked ourselves.
Real tube nerds already know the reason
@@OffTheRailsUK Do they? Would they know what material the linings of station personnel caps are made of, or which brand of lamps are used in the running lights? If they could answer that - without google - then their nerdship is consummate.
@@Deebz270yeah but there are many rolling stock which have a similar sort of noise and you start to notice the link
Tube Nerds AKA Terds by TfL staff lol
@@mariemccann5895 I hang around with a lot of drivers and station staff. I have *never* heard them refer to us as "terds".
I love this noise. It sounds like something is really happening under the hood, as if it is optimized to gradually increasing its current to create momentum without losing friction
That's exactly what it's doing. It's regulating the torque to avoid wheel spin and also provide a gradual increase in acceleration instead of a big jolt.
Traction control
Same even though I’m from the USI’m just seeing about London
As someone who's lived on and travelled on the Jubilee line my entire life (30 years), and travelled on the tube a LOT, I can't believe I never realised it's the only line that makes that sound until now!! I read the video title and had NO idea what it was talking about until I heard it and felt immediate familiarity and comfort :')
Same!
Same! These days I’ve taken the tube more, not the jubilee and wondered what happened to the noise. I didn’t know how to search it up
Didn’t realise it was only the jubilee line that made that noise. Makes sense why it was so familiar since as a child it was a line I took more regularly
You asked "Do you like the noise?"
The noise is absolutely wonderful, love getting these trains
Beautiful, I've heard that noise thousands of times but never paid attention and never noticed it was only the Jubilee Line. The question that I have asked myself is why Westminster looks like it's built to be readily converted into an impenetrable fallout shelter/supervillain lair/cabinet war room.
Personally, I think you just answered your own question 😄 The clue's in the location, after all!
Most of London was reconstructed after ww2 and during the cold war
Possibly because it is 😂
Theres an extended version of this sound in Singapore on the Northeast line, on the C751A
@@trickymisterpringlesThe newer C751C & C851E rolling stock sound similar at low speeds too despite using more modern propulsion systems
Hello from Toronto!
The 1995 T-1 trains we have here make that exact noise, I've always loved the sound they make but never been able to learn why they make it. I had always assumed it was the gears changing. It's nice to finally have an answer :)
Glad to see a fellow Torontonian here!
Was going to post the exact same thing!
Yup! I heard it and had a moment of 'OH HEY HANG ON!'
Singapore's C751A rolling stock make a higher-pitched version of the same noise but apparently use IGBT instead & were built only between 2001-2, while the C751C & C851Es built in 2014 & 2021 do too at low speeds but at even higher pitches, but at higher speeds they sound like C830(C)s instead (built 2006-8 & in 2014, & which at low speeds sound like the '95 stock instead), which use 750V 3rd rail instead of 1.5kV overhead wires (which I guess is why they sound different)
Fun fact: Variable-frequency drive was developed in the 70s by a Finnish company Strömberg Oy and it's engineer Martti Harmoinen, and it was first seen on the Helsinki underground, opened in the 1980s. The M100 series was the first underground train to use this type of propulsion.
I was five when the Helsinki metro opened. The VFD whine is the sound of my childhood.
I went looking for a sample of the Helsinki metro sound on CZcams and found this educational film from 1982: czcams.com/video/WBlPuog7fJ0/video.html Now _that's_ some nostalgia…
Also, apparently someone recorded the sound directly off the engines with an induction coil: czcams.com/video/e3QwhuecbC4/video.html 😯
Huh, interesting.
I used to work for a company that installed large industrial electric motors with variable-frequency soft-start drives, and I will never forget the "WHOOOOP!" of those starting up. Sounds like a starship getting ready to go into hyperspace or something. ;)
You should hear the the OBB Taurus locomotives as they pull off from standing- the thyristor switching plays almost an ascending Dorian mode scale beautifully.
I did encounter a video of one while researching this!
@@JagoHazzard There's a relatively well known video called "Taurus Mackt Music" of one such locomotive moving off with a heavy freight train during a snow storm. As the weels slip the motors rotate at different speeds to eachother at it sounds like some kind of alien music piece.
There's also the Montreal Jeumont trains which do a I-IV-I arpeggio
*macht Musik
Beno went quite in depth about the sounds of EMU motors. Can't remember which video though
I honestly hadn't noticed it, because I grew up in South East London and have heard Networkers for years. It's just how a train sounds to me.
On a warm summer's day I can hear the station in the distance. The beeping of the doors closing warning, the slam of the doors, then the sound of the train moving off. Isn't it odd to think that for some people that will one day be as nostalgic for them as the slow puff-puff-puff of a steam train moving off?
Oh yes, its the same with old german sub urban trains. All I have known as a child where running until 20 yrs ago. Now only one train is preserved, whenever I hear it at the station, I can say its the museum train without seeing it. The electric motors of these old trains have their own sound and are louder than the new ones...
I remember the sound of the old destination boards and the slamming of the slam-door trains, and honestly, those sounds are nearly as nostalgic for me as the puff-puff-puff of a steam train... Maybe more so, because I don't know anywhere that uses those old style destination boards, and you can at least visit a heritage railway to satisfy the need to hear/see/smell a steam train.
@@Teverell I'm with you on the destination boards. There was something glorious about being at London Victoria and hearing the shuffling of the boards as a train departed or a new train was put onto the board. Sadly they're just too big for a heritage installation - except maybe at the National Railway Museum? Hopefully they can do something along those lines...
I missed the sound of the old flip-card destination boards so much that I bought something called a Vestaboard for my house. I'm ashamed at the cost despite getting a much cheaper refurbished unit, but the joy it brings me every day is immeasurable, along with the Eastern European two-sided station clock it hangs next to.
Growing up in se London I thought all trains sounded like this too 😂😂
Helsinki metro M100 stock (the oldest) has similar sound. They were built between 1977-1984 and according to Wikipedia were the first train in the world to use VVVF propulsion inverters, developed and manufactured by Strömberg.
I read that Japan Railways' 201 series from 1979 was another early adopter of similar technology too (from Mitsubishi), but they sound significantly quieter
Love how international this turns out to be, judging by the comments ❤ Here in the Netherlands we have a specific build of trains, also from the late nineties, that makes a similar sound. Always used to catch those when I was in uni, brings back memories ❤
A lot of Berlin trains make this type of sound.
In the US of A, the Long Island Rail Road (yes its properly spelled that way, with a space) trains make the same sound, as do some of the Washington Metro fleet.
The ‘noise’ is what makes it iconic and it won’t be the same when they’re replaced which will hopefully be a long while yet!
Sadly, the noise represents an inefficiency, which causes more power to be used driving the train, which adds heat, meaning that (if ever fitted) aircon would have to work harder, generating yet more heat. An upgrade would almost certainly eliminate the qualities of the noise.
Thyristor control is kinda crude, chopping the DC up into square wave AC, instead of nice smooth sinusoidal AC. What you're hearing is the square wave AC causing bits of motor (field windings) to hammer themselves sharply into their housings, resulting in a sound that some might see as pleasing, or at least characterful! Sinusoidal AC speed control doesn't cause such abrupt mechanical loads on the motor components, so the noise is softer.
The square wave AC means that, at parts of the cycle of the waveform, current is flowing through the field windings producing magnetic flux that isn't actually having much effect, so that just wasted power. More modern power control that gets closer to the ideal sinusoidal output is more efficient, delivering only as much current to the field windings as is needed during the cycle.
The "gear change" is I think due to the fact that the thyristors used top out at about 1kHz switching speeds. To go faster I think the square wave AC voltage is stepped up (more power), but the thyristor frequency is stepped back down (to match the power to what was being produced just now and avoid a jolt). At the new increased voltage the frequency can be ramped up again, to smoothly increase the delivered power.
@@abarratt8869 Why on Earth did you write that essay 😂
@@timelordgeek16 Thoroughness. I could barely constrain myself from explaining about the necessity of having isotopically pure silicon used as the base material in the manufacture of the thyristors, and how that is related to the recent replacement of The Grand K as the reference kilogram in Paris!
@@timelordgeek16 because it's interesting. especially to people subscribed to this channel
@@abarratt8869 legend
Just to point out, the Networkers you showed at 3:25 are some of the examples that had their original GTO Thyristors replaced by Hitachi IGBT technology that doesn't make "the noise". The visual clue is the re-tractioned units had the skirting on the under frames of the re-tractioned power cars removed to fit the new kit in. Some of the units retain their GTO thyristors and retain the underbody skirts, and still make "the noise".
I think the class 466 two car units still have the original traction equipment so still have the original sounds
"WhirrhWhirrh... !"
This all is true. Though we can go a bit deeper. The class 465s were built by 2 companies: BREL and Metro-Cammell (or Met-Cam for short). All BREL-built units had their traction equipment changed to the Hitachi ones, but the Met-Cams retained their old equipment. A good way to know which one you have is to look at the numbers. BREL built the so-called/0s and 1s and Met-Cam built /2s and 466s. Some /2s got converted into/9s, so they're Met-Cams and make 'the noise'. And just for clarity, /0s are all 465s numbered 4650xx, /1s 4651xx, /2s 4652xx and /9s 4659xx.
The alstom /metro caammel built units kept their original whilst the BREL/ABB got their traction systems modified ..not everything was replaced, but the igbt inverters were replaced for sure.
The funny thing is the alstom /metro cammel acceleration is still alot more reliable. They are faster to max speed than the hitachi types
@jopu7004 it's also good to note metro cammels cab fronts are slightly more rounded and have an AC Installed on the "forehead" of the cab. The windows are also slightly bigger . And the door windows have smooth black outlines on the windows. Just other stuff. BREL/ABBs also have weird ventilator grills on the side.
The physical sound itself comes from the coils vibrating. It's also why regular universal motors make that characteristic line hum (ever use a cheap-ish plug-in drill?).
The interesting tone the motors make comes from the PWM controller that switches the current. Normally this gets pushed outside the audible range to minimise annoyance (and because higher switching frequencies can be more efficient in certain applications, such as DC-DC voltage conversion), but for whatever reason they've had to use a lower frequency here, so the motors are quite audible.
My best guess for why they start at a lower frequency and increase it as the train accelerates is that there's a minimum switching interval for the switching element, and they need less current at the start than it can deliver at its nominal PWM frequency, so they run it slower.
Maybe someone who actually works with these things can chime in to further clarify.
You are on point, thyristors are quite slow and low power required quite short pulses - so at lower power, they lower frequency to increase length of the pulses. IGBT can switch much faster, which is why modern trains make much higher pitched noise.
coil hum yup.
I'm so pleased that you uploaded this video! I often travel on London Northwestern trains between Crewe and Birmingham or London and have noticed they make a similar noise. The 'gear shift' sound is quite distinctive and when I tried to search online I couldn't find any information... I obviously wasn't searching for the right thing. It's always fun to 'geek out' over these things! 🤣
Very nice video and well explained!
As an electronics bod myself, one minor correction is that IGBT stands for Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor (not transmitter)
That is not minor. A transistor is a gate - on and off - that is why they are used in computing as they use digital maths 1 and 0 (on and off).
@@johnburns4017 Of course, the minor I was referring to is that it was a single word that was wrong, rather than the functional details.
Yes IGBT transistors,used in electric cars also.
And might you argue that a transistor isn’t necessarily bipolar, hence its use in amplification, in contrast to a thyristor?
@@cachebangwallop3482 It's the semiconductor junction that's bipolar, rather than the component itself, but I see what you're saying.
Now do a part two, discussing that horrendous noise between St. John’s Wood and Baker Street!
And Jubliee from London Bridge to Canary wharf, and Northern Line under the river.
And much of the Victoria line.
endured that screeching for years-and wondered why it hadn't (or couldn't i suppose) be fixed.
@arnaudbertrand4808 I suspect the screeching can't be remedied. It sounds like wheelsets grinding on curves. Poor track alignment and design. Back in the day, it would be lifted and re-laid. But now, I think it's been set in concrete. No longer a quick fix.
I'm surprised TFL hasn't been taken to the courts, as the noise regularly exceeds permitted levels.
@@debsmith5520 nope it can be, slower trains, better track maintenance etc. it never used to be that bad in the past. I'm equally shocked nobody decided to do a test case... I suppose all the city *ankers find alternative means or use noise cancelling headphones...
I travel in Kent and have heard the sounds you describe, hadn't connected that it was similar to the Jubilee Line until now, but now it's glaringly obvious - I quite like the sound.
Yup, I remember exactly the same when I got the train to school - and it was specifically the Class 465s that did it.
That noise kept me awake for 6 months living near Willesden Green
The sound is what makes the Jubilee line, its unique
It isn't.
@@mariemccann5895I am unaware of trains that make a similar noise.
This noise is ingrained so deeply into my brain that I hear it in my dreams.
Lol
When working in Edgware NW London, I discovered that taking the Jubilee line was actually a straight (and cheaper less difficult) route to and from work. Where I’d get on from work I’d always have a seat and enough time to do some theory test revision or watch an episode or 3 before getting off the train. The sound is why I love both the Jubilee and South Eastern trains growing up, and now to discover it was by total chance makes it even better. I love when the CZcams algorithm recommends these insightful videos answering those questions you randomly had for years. God bless you, sir.
Back in 1997 I regularly took my daughter to school catching the Jubilee line from Green Park to St John's Wood. I well remember the morning when the new trains were introduced. We were expecting the usual trundling, grating sound which always seemed to threaten the train breaking down, and stared at each other open-mouthed when we heard the new 'sci-fi' noise. However I think we were even more impressed by the cleanliness of the carriages and the plushness of the new upholstery. It's hard to convey just how decrepit the old Jubilee line trains were - many of the seats had tears covered up with duct tape, and there was loads of graffiti on the walls.
A very familiar sound to me: Helsinki metro M100 trains were the first in the world to use this technology, introduced in the late seventies I think. One advantage is that they can feed back current to the network when braking. VFD also mitigates current draw at start up which makes for smoother running and less strain on the power grid. -A Finnish subscriber and fan
Ps. More boats please, I loved the bit about the paddle wheeler!
Yes! I immediately thought of the Helsinki metro when I heard that sound
I also thought of Helsinki Metro! I almost heard the lovely bilingual announcement "Mellunmäki, pääteasema. Matkustajat olkaa hyvät ja poistukaa junasta. Mellungsbacka, ändstation. Bästa passagerare, var god och stig av tåget!"... :D
The Helsinki Metro opened in 1982, long delayed and monstrously over budget, and the trains were no longer new, having done 'test runs' for many years, to the frustration of people stuck in traffic on the main road to the east of the city centre, alongside the surface section of the metro line. The M100 stock is still in service today (refurbished, of course), 40 years later, alongside the much newer M200 and M300 stock.
I thought the same! i love that sound though
i believe the S1, S2, and S3 stock on the amsterdam metro are also pretty similar. definitly one of my favorite sounding trains
Sorry if anyone’s already mentioned this: the Málaga Cercanías trains (2 lines, one to Fuengirola and one to Álora) make an almost identical noise: I’m a musician with a fairly keen sense of pitch, and was mentally singing along with the Jubillee line! Thanks for the video 😊
a lot of the madrid metro lines in general sound like it, i got nostalgia instantly to línea 7 when hearing the noise again first time in this video
The new tmb series 7000 and 8000 here in Barcelona makes this sound loud and proud and it's so satisfying
I’ve travelled on the Malaga to Fuengirola line and I agree they make a very similar sound
Same in Vienna
dope!
I need a 1 hour of tube trains accelerating video! It's utterly satisfying, one of the tiny reasons why I love visiting London
The Class 323 on my local line in Birmingham make a similar motor noise. I'm going to miss it when they go!
Not to worry, they’ll still be around in Manchester
I have never liked a Jago video quicker than this one.
The 96 stock, and the noise they make, hold a special place in my heart, and I hope that these trains will be able to last as long as possible so that this beautiful sound may forever echo down the tunnels
Thank you for this video, Jago Hazzard
They should honestly add speakers to play the sound on new Jubilee Line trains if new trains will not make the noise themselves
Your videos answer questions I've had for years but either never think to look up or ask anyone, or just assume I'll never know.
I really like the noise, I love the noise of any electric train!
This is the video I’ve been waiting for most of my life
I moved to London from the San Francisco Bay Area and my first time on the Jubilee line was actually a bit of strange nostalgia because the BART makes the same noise as it approaches or departs.
The new trains are much quieter, sadly.
The legacy C cars used to be really loud when doing it, since they were never updated, especially when they came blasting into the station.
It's a shame that the LISA doesn't make that noise.
Sorry was that a bad pun?
You bear me to it. A more melodic noise (5 distinct “notes”) could be heard on some of the older trains of the Montreal Metro.
It's a lovely noise. There is a branch line overground out of Wimbledon to somewhere what has a very lovely noise like something out of a space movie. The track were at the end of the garden where I used to live and the local station was very near. Not once did those trains ever ruin a day sitting in the garden in the summer.
sounds like the class 458’s, they also sound epic :)
It reminds me of the very distinct song that class 465s play between 0-15mph. Those trains ran past my house where I grew up and it has a special place in my heart
Yup, exactly!
Saw the title and immediately went "I bet it's that Oughhhh Oughhhh Oughhhh thing they do". Wasn't disappointed! I've always lived near Jubilee line stations, so it sounds like home.
It had not occurred to me that the sound was only heard on Jubilee trains. Your video had me googling 'thyristor' and I now understand (to some extent) what they do. I like the Jubilee line - especially the Docklands sector - and like the sound: it portends a journey, an adventure.
You don't need to know the little details. Just that there's an electronic box that makes a lot of noise.
One could argue that if the frequency shift does indeed optimize torque delivery, then it is at least an analogue of gearing.
Digitalisation of gearing maybe
VVVF technology. Variable voltage variable frequency. The voltage controls the torque, the frequency controls the speed. That's why the Electrostars noise changes when they go into a wheelspin on acceleration. When the wheel spins, the voltage is reduced (torque) to regain traction but the frequency is maintained to keep the wheels rotating then the voltage is reapplied.
Get educated.
It performs the task of gears, without using gears
@@JobForAMaxboy Precisely.
I do like that noise, it somehow says hey we are on the move and quickly too.
Also loved the glimpse of Woodside Park station.
I used to live just around the corner from there for 10 years.
Great video Jago
we have that noise on our older expo line trains here in vancouver, it's really satisfying riding one of the older trains :D
Here in Montreal the Metro system makes a different but also melodious noise when starting up - it's a kind of rising three tone noise. I am sure there are videos of it on CZcams. I believe the explanation given is that its the three different motor phases coming online sequentially as the train accelerates.
A similar noise is artificially generated (I believe) for things like electric School Buses and full size commuter trains (Overground equivalent) for "awareness" they are about to move, even though its not a noise inherent to those vehicles by design.
I believe the Jubilee Line trains, Networkers and Class 323s also have specifically three phase ac motors, and that this was the answer given when people started asking in the 1990s why their new trains had this strange sound.
Yes, the motors (or something) step up in increments of 60 or 120 Hz, and the most audible frequencies are 180, 240, and 360 Hz; those are the 3 notes one hears (kind of a flat F-Bb-F). This is only on the second generation (MR-73) rolling stock, but the note sequence has been reused (with frequencies closer to A440) for the door close chime on both the MR-73 and MPM-10 trains. I’m going to miss the original sound when it eventually gets phased out…
Yeah, it's the MR-73 cars on the Green (and Blue?) Line that play the first three notes of Aaron Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man". It sounds beautiful echoing up and down the tunnels.
I'll add that the reason for the frequency chopping on the MR-73 stock is to limit in-rush current on their DC motors. Thus the designers chose constant tones that made the electronic circuit simple and reliable rather than the sweeping tones heard on AC motor controllers like in this video.
*I LOVE❤ the noise.* Here in the West Mids we have the class 323 and they do sound like a train that has 8 gears... its similar situation to the 96 Stock trains though. The thyristors that step down the voltage can only be _on_ or _off,_ so to prevent overheating, the circuit is broken once the train starts to move then re-engages again to get the train to move faster, and so on. This is called pulse-width modulation.
I was gonna say, as someone who was born and raised in the West Mids it sounds a lot like the old 323 trains that run the regular routes for West Mids Trains
The old trains on Southeastern used to make a similar noise as well. A few of the carriages are still in circulation, so it’s amusing when you get a couple of old carriages coupled to newer ones and hear both the old sound and the newer one heard in this video as the train pulls away
That’s the first time in 8 years I’ve heard that noise, since I finished working in London (for London Underground ironically!), and hearing that noise takes me straight back to standing on the platform at Southwark station. Great video!
That noise is why the 1996 stock is my favorite, it's great. I grew up in Paris and the MP89 trains have a similar sound that I also love
Entertaining as always mate :) When I saw the title of this video I knew right away what you were going to talk about. The closest sounding train to the 1996 stock is the British Rail Class 323 which has a very distinctive "Race Car" sound when moving off and also coming to a stop. They were built by Hunslet, a company formed from a number of ex-Metro-Cammell staff which might also explain their similar technology. The Class 323s were due to undergo a life extension modification which would have seen their traction motors and associated equipment replaced and thus lose their distinctive noise however that part of the refurb seems to have been skipped as a cost-cutting measure. Also the "gear change" is a change in "field divert" which is a result of needing to reduce the amount of amps running through the traction motor (as once it reaches a certain amount it would begin to fight itself) so a field divert would lighten the load in a similar way to changing gear in a car. It is the same principle with a diesel electric locomotive, they usually have three diverts which kick in at certain speeds to relieve the amps, these are very noticeable as the engine noise (or thrash) decreases for a moment before erupting again much to the delight of bashers ;)
I too was thinking that the Jubilee trains' sounds reminded me strongly of the Class 323, and at the time I thought of it as a "modern" noise showing that ac motors had arrived in place of the traditional dc. I hadn't spotted that recent trains had lost it, or don't have it to the same extent.
Absolutely love the sound of a Class 323... reminds me of travelling by train in the Midlands as a kid!
I knew I’d heard it more northerly, Class 323s out of M/CR Piccadilly
AC motors don't require field diverts. It's a frequency shift (variable voltage-variable frequency) that is required for controlling output speed of the motors e;g speeding up or slowing down with regenerative or dynamic braking. GTOs "chop" the frequency in a much more square wave like fashion which is what causes the sound to be more tonal as opposed to the IGBTs "hiss" or "whine" which is more sine-wavy and much more rapid in frequency. The benefit is finer motor control for adhesion purposes.
I couldn't remember what class it was, but I remember the sound from some trips to Birmingham in the late 90s. Always reminds me of an arcade racing car.
Dude this is such a good video, packed with information
I love this noise so much, it sounds so futuristic and musical!
4:33 insulated gate bipolar transistor - not "transmitter" - also called an IGBT, another trap for the unwary!! A type of improved thyristor or power semiconductor that can handle the high voltages and high currents in traction motor equipment, such as in those trains. I didn't realise the Jubilee line trains had a different music to them - thank you!
i love the trap joke
An IGBT is not a thyristor. A thyristor is a latching current controlled device, which stays on after it is triggered until the current though the device drops to zero or (in the case of an MCT) the device is force commutated with the gate turn off mechanism. An IGBT doesn't latch, the gate must be driven for current to flow.
@@ke7eha It is a variant, sure. But it is not a "transmitter" as stated in the video!
@@karhukivi nope. A thyristor is a PNPN junction at its core. An IGBT is a darlington pair of a MOSFET with a BJT (NMOS with PNP, PMOS with NPN). Completely different device physics and drive requirements.
NMCT uses a positive voltage on the gate to trigger, has normal thyristor behavior at zero voltage on the gate, force commutates with negative voltage on the gate. The IGBT is on with voltage on the gate, off with zero voltage on the gate.
@@ke7ehaI know how they work and I use them. The point was that in the video the device was called a "TRANSMITTER!!
For me, this sound shall forever be the Helsinki Metro sound. It's exactly the sound I remember those trains making.
It's a scaled up version of my old dewalt drill that makes a high pitched squeaking noise when pressed lightly - thyristors. They do age and "wear out" and the squeaking gets louder as a result. Great video thank you for sharing!
Heard this on the Met line this summer from Kings Cross to Rickmansworth, nice to listen to during the journey
Nice one again Jago ! I'm impressed by your explanation, and you're closer with your gearbox analogy than you might think. Power electronics is a very special field on it's own, even among electrical and electronic folk, you picked the right cherries out of the muddle to teach us well !
Going the other way i.e. back in the past, how about a nice mercury rectifier video to glow and warm up these dark autumn evenings ?
Austrian Railjet Taurus locomotives have traction converters which sound like a saxophone playing a scale when they start moving - another great train noise!
It was on my commute from stanmore to Wembley were I was inspired (by this sound, primarily) to pursuit a career in railway. I later worked for bombardier, Siemens & TFL. Although I have since moved to Ireland, I now work in the aviation industry.
But I'll never forget were the spark came from!
Train motor sounds like these are the reason why I love trains so much! It is so satisfying, it can't even be put into words. I just love it!
You get a similar noise on the Class 323s on WMR and Northern (my personal favourite train for nostalgia reasons), which were also built by Metro-Cammell and use thyristors. It's almost iconic.
Met Cam didn’t actually build the 323s. It was a company called Hunslet Transport which was formed of ex Met Cam staff. Completely independent from met cam
good example is the met cam 465 as well
Some off the early 350s (350/1) have a similar quieter noise.
Class 323s and VIRM have similar noise aswell
@@OfficialJoxhie Hunslet TPL (Transportation Projects Ltd) for the pedantic. I'll be sad to see the Yorkshire 323 tech retired, too
My 17 month old boy loves trains and cars, he saw the train in the first clip and pointed out it is a 'broom broom' then started to harmonise with it 😂
? He calls a train a broom broom ?
I've only ever referred to a motor car as a broom-broom myself, but now you come to mention it, these trains do make a sort of broom broom noise!
Every day is a school day :-)
I used to harmonise with engine noises at that age too. Well, I still do, 27 years on from that!
@@daveash9572 yeah he int a year and a half old yet so I'm not really holding it against him, basically anything that moves seems to be a broom broom, when he saw a lady in a wheel chair and said it i decided were going to have to learn the difference, he knows car and sometimes train now though
@@robertcourtney9907 Bless his little socks! 🙂
The first device you mention was a thyristor which is basically a latching switch on or off controlled by the gate rather than an adjustable flow like a transistor and can only be used on AC, The second one is a type of FET with a special gate which is effectively isolated from the other two terminals meaning it uses much lower drive signals than a standard FET and a very low on resistance which produces much less Radio Frequency interference and has much better power throughput so less energy wasted, it is the IGFET which actually stands for Insulated Gate Field Effect Transistor (not transmitter which is what I think you said, at least that's what it sounded like)
Gosh that sound is awesome. Brings back roller coaster memories. Specifically the coasters with launch sections with magnetic staters
Finally, this has to be made! The 1996TS are one of the most characterful trains in the underground.
I love that sound, tells you how fast and cool is the tube.
Man, I remember when this channel had less than 5,000 subs. It's been so awesome to see this channel grow. You could tell even then that this channel was going to grow a lot. Great work! Super well deserved!
I never realised other trains didn't sound like that. I kinda like the sound, somehow familiar and reassuring
I’ve heard a very similar sound coming from the old trams that ran on West Midland’s Metro. It was also very satisfying
This noise is strikingly similar to that heard on each of the underground sections of the München U-Bahn, and to parts of Madrid's Metro and Cercanias, and on DC Metro. Many newer rapid transit systems have similar sounds too, such as Vancouver's Skytrain and the downtown sections of Hong Kong's MTR.
defs feel like i was familiar with it from München, too
I was looking for this comment. I remember I lived in Germany at age 10-14, and the sound was so distinct and melodic and I loved it so much, but wondered what actually gave it that sound and melody.
Was just away to comment saying it is very similar to the sound of the trains on the Berlin U-Bahn, guess they work in a similar way. Come to think of it, most of the metros I have been on make this noise, the other lines in London that don't would be the exception rather than the rule I think?
A single version of older trams here in Braunschweig also make this sound but not as melodic.
Delhi metro also has it
Such an iconic sound and one I know since was a kid. Every time I visit London and hear that it kinda makes me feel at home
The video no one asked for but kinda needed. Thank you for the video, definitely earned another subscriber 💯
I use Southeastern trains regularly and the Metro 465s with the blue doors that you showed are my favourite trains on the network by far. I love the sound of the Thyristors - it's like an old friend - and the trains are quiet inside, smooth and the best thing is that they line up almost perfectly with the platforms without a big gap or a big step up (very important for those of us with mobility issues). The seating is also much more comfortable than that in the new City Beams. Sadly, Southeastern plan to get rid of the 465s sometime soon, for no good reason as far as I can see. I will miss them! I rarely use the Jubilee Line but I like the sound of the Thyristors there too.
The Bloor-Danforth Subway (Line 2) in Toronto's trains make a very similar sound (albeit higher pitched), while also having DC third rail but with AC motors, also built in the 90s.
The helsinki metro m100 class from the 1980s make a very similar sound. Fun fact, the variable frequency drive that makes the sound was invented for the metro line and is now used in numerous applications.
What a FABULOUS video. Thank you.
The most underrated sound for London Underground. My other favorites include now gone Siemens GTO/IGBT combos on Keikyu N1000 from 2002 to 2021; R160 for NYCTA with Siemens IGBT motors; Japan Railway East E231 pre-refurbished trains (both Mitsubishi and Hitachi) which are almost all gone; and finally Hong Kong MTR's SP1900 trains with Mitsubishi motors.
I love that noise. It sounds like some kind of sci-fi spaceship sound effect from the 1960s. And you're spot-on about the similar sound from the Networkers. I have very fond memories of riding on Class 365s into King's Cross when I was a kid, so a lot of it is nostalgia.
Though I think the Networker (465?) you captured had new traction motors fitted. The old ones sounded way more like the 1996 stock than the refurbished ones.
I absolutely love that noise along with that 'singing' you get through the rails as the train approaches the station. Thank you for educating us.
Trolley buses in San Francisco make that noise, too. I've always liked it.
I have adored that sound for decades, catching trains from Stechford to Birmingham New Street (now Grand Central Birmingham). I think it’s the London Midland trains that have it. Breaks release, slow power up. It’s such a great sound!
I remember when I first started travelling on the new trains from Wembley Park back then, it felt very futuristic, the sound was really satisfying (as another commentator mentioned) and it chilled this anxious person when travelling during peak hours
Reminds me a bit of the sound the Vancouver Skytrain Mark 1 trains make when they accelerate. Very distinctive, very satisfying, even if the trains themselves are uncomfortably loud once they're actually in motion!
Thank you for the explanation as I have often wondered 👍
3:30 This sound is my childhood joy, those are the trains used at my hometown station
Damn.. that noise takes me. I miss living in London.
Did anyone else notice that the automated announcements on the Jubilee trains used to pronounce Neasden as ‘NEEEEESDEN’.
A superb video as always good sir.
The announcement also says Willesden Green really excitedly - probably the happiest anyone's ever been going there!
Wiiiiiilsden Green 😂 makes it sound whimsical and magical 😊
As someone who’s grown up in Singapore and visited Melbourne I know all too well that that noise is an Alstom OPTONIX motor, which I could be wrong, but it’s also been used on the SBS Transit C751A and the Metro Trains Melbourne (and also formerly Connex Melbourne) X’Trapolis trains.
The Xtrapolis and C751A use the Onix propulsion, while the C830C uses the newer Optonix.
Many thanks! Another part of this marvellous universe explained ( being a regular passenger on the line! ).
0:25 I knew right away what it was when I heard it. The old train of the Montreal metro also had electromechanical noise. The 3 note chime that it made is quite iconic, so much so that its now used as the door closing sound.
Well explained Jago. In the 1980's, the industry changed the method of current supply to the motors from the earlier banks of resistors which burned off unwanted current as heat (A-Stock, C-Stock) to thyristors or transistors, which don't burn anything off at all, but modulate the required current by switching it on and off very rapidly with constantly changing frequencies (on acceleration). It's a very clever way of handling large doses of current and even works well on electric locomotives, which have current flows like the Zambezi River at the Victoria Falls.
Thank you very much for that explanation!
Does excess current/power cause wheel spin/motor damage?
Btw I always felt that when the central line takes off too quickly, it seems like the motors cut off for a moment & then start again
In the old days (a century ago), the commonest type of motor damage due to excess feed current was a flashover, a short-circuit of the commutators which caused a brief fire to break out (and disabled the motor). In the modern systems, that is physically impossible. Wheelspin doesn't bother the motor unduly, it just hampers progress. Modern systems also control wheelspin using a similar technology to the antilock braking system: wheel rotation is monitored digitally. This works well even on the most powerful electric locomotives. @@mynameisyasser
I kinda like how distinct the various rolling stock tends to be. For a time, a different set of trains (S7/S8 stock on the subsurface lines) as well as the 2009 Vic line stock reminded me of old 5000-series WMATA (Washington Metro, my home system) trains because the traction system was made by... Bombardier (now part of Alstom); those systems are also on some of your Overground stock too.
But it's fun to hear how the Jubilee Line has that sound, and more fun to ride on them. Other than the Vic Line, it's sooooo fast and speedy!
That sound is so nostalgic. I used to catch the Jubilee line from Waterloo to London Bridge daily in 2013 for a job in the games industry and so many memorable days began, and ended, with that sound.
It’s a classic British story kinda. Sorta bodge/ cheaper option that becomes novel and thus cherished. I adore this sound
What a happy accident that cheaping out on the 96 Stock lead to one of the most iconic sounds of the Tube
Got it about spot on. Multi-frequency inverters.
Back in the late-90s, my ex-partner was the commissioning engineer for the new Northern Line trains for Alstom and spent months and months running up and down the line fixing issues for the new traction system and rescuing dead trains.
Amusingly, not all of the bugs have been worked out, even now, and occasionally you may find yourself on a stationary train where the lights turn on and off and the doors open and close a time or two - the driver is just rebooting it so it'll move again 😊
I used to work in Canary Worf for a brief period, had to take the Jubilee line to get there ofc, I loved hearing that sound. it was a nice comfort hearing it in this video.
Always reminds me of the Madrid metro. I studied there and the sound instantly takes me back 😊
Hey :) It's Transistors, not Transmitters.
The gear changing noise comes from switching how the coils are combined to logical magnetic poles. So it is indeed a kind of logical gearshift. New technology is able to generate any needed frequency without recombining magnetic poles, so at least that many "gearshifts" are unusual at new trains. By the way: Some trains have 3-phase-DC, but some have 4-phase-DC. Some have asynchronous motors, some have synchronous motors. Everything sounds different. Did you ever hear the Siemens Taurus playing a chromatic scale at lower speeds? There are videos with Taurus-music.
It's an illusion of sorts, not an actual gear change, just the Inverter pulsing at different frequencies in the initial phase of acceleration. You are right the echoing of the magnetic harmonics are what make that sound via the coils and air between the Infrustructure of the motor/inverter modules.
I'm not major expert but I also know these trains can be programmed to "pulse" at different frequencies.
@@bb-3653 Yes, what I call "logical gear shift" is kind of purely electrical switching. It is done similar like how it was done in italian FS Class E 550 and FS Class E 432. Of course we don't use mechanical drum switches today but static semi-conductors. But it's not only that you can change the frequency of the AC, which the italians did not because the AC came from the catenary, you can also re-group your coils, which the italians did, depending how many coils you have in your motors. If your electronics is able to produce the full range of frequencies, you can make it easy and use 3 coils per motor without "shifting gears". If your motors have 6 coils, you start with [1,2,3,1,2,3] by switching opposed coils together, and at higher speeds you shift to [1,1,2,2,3,3] by switching neighboring coils together. You get even more possible "logical gears" if you use 12, 18 or 24 coils. That's what the italians did, so they got 4 speeds out of their fixed frequency in the catenary with a lot of wheelslip when switching.
Well done Jago for tackling a technical subject that you would normally shy away from - more would be welcomed. As for magnetic circuits and noise, it is usually magnetostriction of the motor and/or controller that generates the sound. This is where the magnetic materials undergo small dimensional changes at the frequency (and associated harmonics) of the driving electronics. These small dimensional changes can couple to surrounding bodywork and get amplified.
@BigA1 in other words the harmonics resonate through the metal materials and the air etc.
@@doctorhabilthcjesus4610 makes sense ,makes sense
Thanks for the explanation! This is one of the reasons why the 96 stock is and will always be my favourite tube line; from the traction motor sounds it makes whilst de-accelerating and accelerating, to the platform edge doors (only tube line to have them - excluding the Lizzie line as it's not considered a tube line)
I’ve been on the tube plenty and I genuinely had it in my head that all of them sounded like this 🤣 so ingrained is this sound in my head as part of my trips to London.
Even though it’s only one line that makes that sound. The sound it makes IS the sound of the underground.