Cooling F1 Cars - Why Mercedes suffer when following cars
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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Keeping F1 cars cool is a complicated and clever business. Why is it so important and how do they do it?
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They have a Vettel-RBR tactic. Qualify 1st, pull away instantly, control the whole race.
can you really blame them when it is working as well as it is for now.
@@miniMEGA29 no of course im not blaming them. they've done well
All the more reason for reverse grids
Reverse grids will only make drivers do their best to be as slow as believably possible.
@@patriotbarrow yall don't know anything about how a reverse grid works
That's why Toto vetoed reverse grids😂😂
And because it would only harm them?? It would be bad for front runners and good for the back of the pack.
You joke lmao, but it would hurt merc the most
Wouldn’t you?
@@saltbjorn well, yeah😂, but overtaking is meant to be part of the sport. So in essence, it's not good for Formula 1 as a whole
izuchukwu oruche what about places like Monaco where it would be virtually impossible to win a race from the back ( or get pole) f1 isn’t always about overtaking, it’s the pinnacle of motorsport which means constant innovation why should the teams that innovate the best be punished for that and vice versa
Its kind of ironic that the hottest part of the car is called ICE.(Internal Combustion Engine)
Some people might just abbreviate it as "ENG".
@@gibu002 yes but then it's not funny
Except it isn't. Brakes and tyres are both hotter.
@@970357ers Exhaust gas has entered the chat
So you think the engine gets hotter than the 1100 degrees Celcius at the brakes? Lol
At least we have one weak spot of those mercs. The second driver can block mercs while almost getting blue flagged. Problem solved !
Afaik when fighting for position you don't get blue flagged.
D I think he was talking about a back marker
And there are rules against doing that?
It would make more sense if whoever is close to them at the start of the race tries jumping them to hinder their cooling systems
No matter how you cut that, it's ignoring blue flags and illegal blocking
Says nothing about someone in say P3 holding off someone in P4.... czcams.com/video/fdZ6w3PrVJI/video.html
I didn't fully pay attention, but why you'd ever need to cool a big box of "ICE" beats me.
It will melt if you don't, duh.
@@falcovg2 lmao
@@stratis722 hes not wrong
@@Lunarfox *_he do be spittin fax doe_*
@@stratis722 📠📠📠
Fun fact: heat is, generally, the ultimate factor which limits performance. It limits your engine power (air density), your braking (pads/rotors/fluid), your tire/tyre grip (rubber/air temp), suspension grip (damper oil), and the driver themselves. Compensating for heat induces drag, takes away from downforce, can compromise on engine power, increases the weight of brakes, tires, radiators, intercoolers, shock cooling, and driver cooling. Heat is also responsible for a significant amount of wear on parts.
In the end, you're usually fighting heat to go faster.
a similar argument can be made for the opposite of heat, cold, since if it's too cold the engine wouldn't work properly, brakes would slip, tires wouldn't provide enough grip, and so on.
so, why not just call it "temperature"? :)
Moribax because heat is referring to Heat energy, either a lack or abundance of it. More of an engineering way of saying temperature
@@Moribax85 That's a great point!
Fuck Earth lets go racing on the Moon
So what is the 'perfect temperature' for an f1 car. I bet it differs per component, but overall?
Short answer: they don't know what is be 4th or worse
@bumdog Yeah i forgot that
>2020 Monza has entered the chat
Also, "The Best or Nothing"
2010 springs to mind
Well I mean hamilton is on track for his 8th world championship, and has over 90 podium finishes so... yeah pretty accurate
I remember Bottas blew his engine following Leclerc in the dirty air at Brazil 2019
Guys I think we found Ferrari's genius design.
3 separate cranks
1:45
😹😹😹
Which disrupts center of gravity.... therefore....
s🅱️inalla
@@abbasahmedlp its 2 n and 1 l
lol I saw that and did a double take.
Ah!the great ferrari master🅱️lan
Clearly Merc has traded cooling ability for drag reduction. I’m starting to think the reverse grid may really affect Mercedes.
They setup the car to lead at the front. Would be different story if they know they will qualify below 1-2 position.
Well said. How have the smartest engineers in the world not figured this out as well? Or maybe some have? Racing Point, McClaren and Renault seem to have improved dramatically, no? Ferrari seem to have been relying heavily on engine cheating.
what is a reverse grid?
@@sourabhk2373 reverse grid, as far as I know, is a system where championship leaders start at the back of the grid, instead of their starting position being determined by a Qualifying session. That way you have to actually make moves and pass cars in order to win a championship, and most likely evens the playing field a little for worse teams. You can argue it's unfair to the best teams, but at least you don't have every race expecting a Mercedes 1 2.
Scott O I think most know they will be in the middle so they try to strike a balance. The weaker PU runners (Ferrari and Renault) probably put out the same amount of heat as the Merc, but since they lack the power they are forced to have a more robust radiator/cooling system. Until they can get the power up to Merc level, they will be stuck with the cooling issues.
1:18 I can’t make progress because of the Mercedes overheating
Thank you so much kind sir. Appreciate it.
Nice. Thanks!
Appreciated, was looking for it 😊
It's not how a Finnish person would phrase it, though! More like "en pysty ohittamaan koska Mercedekseni ylikuumenee"
@@anttihelin6820 Vittu niin saatanan kuuma ettei tää perkeleen vekotin tahdo pysyä perässä!
Interestingly, Mercedes opened up their sidepods during the red flag for more cooling during the second half of the race.
Really? Is that allowed? Wouldn't that interfer with Parc Fermé?
@@fabiang.9588 parc ferme ends when the race begins
Apparently some small changes are allowed, with a lot of restrictions of course. No weight can be added and the car has to way enough at the end for example.
@@fabiang.9588 Tinkering with non-fuel presurized systems, cooling and radiator ducts is allowed when race is suspended. Its also allowed in normal pitstop which Mercedes absolutelly love to do. Also in parc ferme its also allowed.
@@fabiang.9588 Go watch Mercedes Race Debrief video as they explain it there
7:29 Showing Gasly's Win
1:23 "En pysty edistymään Mercedes-ylikuumenemisen takia"
translates to: "I can't make progress because of Mercedes-overheating"
It's also clearly a horrible Google Translate generated sentence, since it's not grammatically correct at all.
@@T4gProd it is grammatically correct but just sounds dumb. The thing most wrong with it is "edistymään", which should be "etenemään".
@@T4gProd in my book it's funnier because of this. Finnish people were not the target group of the joke
@@kasperkata Mercedes-ylikuumenemisen ei ole kyllä kirjallisesti oikein
Kasper Kataja torille
2:47
_Apple stock plunges 7% after market open_
Fell like 20% over the last few days, let's keep it a green one today
Chainbear throwing shade.
We got epic and Facebook on one end going after the software and Chainbear, Linus Tech and Lewis Rossmann on the other going after the hardware
@@MrMattie725 did it? Tesla did have shitty last days but I heard Apple was thriving
Top to bottom 138 to 111, so 19.5% :D Apple and Tesla doing the same, Tesla just always a little more extreme in both ways
@@MrMattie725 damn stuart does have some influence
Just slap 🆒 emoji on the car,boom problem solved.
Thank you kanye very 🆒!
As hamilton would say, #blessed
@@joaopedrosambatti2474 🤣🤣🤣
Or just call your team 'Cool Racing'
Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?
I like how Hamilton changed his racing lines in oder to put himself out of the dirt air and cool his car so he could overtake Perez, Kvyat and Ocon, three drivers with powerful engines , I was disappointing to see Botas behind Lando al the race when the Mercedes was clearly faster it just needed to be driven differently just like Lewis did
Thats the difference between an F1 driver and a F1 WDC.
Agreed, but bottas had cooling and another engine issue he had to manage all race sadly
I'm not sure about that. The McLaren was faster.
@@mypenishuge3499 I mean he was the one who damaged his floor on the outlap to the grid.
Bottas was doing similar, it just wasn't on camera as often.
Can you do a video on why Williams is so "draggy" compared to others. Also, what's your thoughts on F1 cars all having the same engine supplier but still being able to design their own car. Would maybe open up the field a little bit and would really show the excellence of car design
1:17 the Finnish text is almost correct
It should say Mercedeksen, not just Mercedes
And yes, I'm Finnish
And although correct, "edistymään" doesn't sound natural. If CB used Google Translator for a sentence like "I can’t make progress because of the Mercedes overheating", the more natural word in this context would be "ohittamaan" aka "overtake".
Hÿva!
Didn't even notice as I was so much distracted by the n being alone on the next row instead of
ylikuumenemi-
sen
@@Fortzon Yeah, or maybe "etenemään" could be used in the same context as "make progress". Like "Valtteri on päässyt etenemään pakan ohi viidenneksi.".
I think he should say Merksehdesch.
And no, I'm not finnish.
Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to properly captions your videos, it's very appreciated from deaf viewers like me. Thank you!
"Why Mercedes suffer behind cars"
Also Mercedes:
P17 to P7 in 20 laps in front of a renault who was fighting for 1 position for 20 laps
*Also Hamilton:
@@HxWilliams nope, they won't say Hamilton cus apparently for them, Hamilton is just sitting there while the team and the car wins those races....
7:30 Man that AlphaTauri Honda car looks good at the front in this video!
1:17 Kimi having forgot Finnish trying to translate what Valtteri said.
His engineer: We've got better things to do kimi, now let's prepare for the next race!
Kimi: Leave me alone, i know what I'm doing!
Also, keep up the great videos Chain Bear! I learn a lot of things about how F1 cars function, and a lot of other things about F1 and other motorsports, so thank you for making them!
The turnaround you have on this videos is incredible!
I think another possible cause is simply the black livery. You saw the same issue with Haas, among many other issues, last year. The livery looks incredible, but black absorbs all light, and thus heats up much quicker than other colors. Its probably a small effect in the grand scheme of things, but it contributes nonetheless
Like the video - but I'm going to correct you on that - The ICE doesn't explode gas. That's pinging. That destroys your engine very quickly. (Ignore SkyActive X for the moment) An ICE needs a controlled burn of the injected fuel. The fuel gets injected and vaporized into a fine mist (as only aerosolized gas can burn, liquid fuel cannot), the fired spark creates a kernel which turns into a flame-front that propagates outward and consumes all the injected fuel before exhaust can begin. (In a perfect world, at least)
but yes, immense heat. A normal engine idling without any coolant will meltdown within 10 minutes. Let alone one that idles close to most road car's redlines.
Wait so liquid petrol doesn't ignite?
So I went through the drive-through to get a coffee. It was too hot, but then I remembered this video. I rolled down the window, drove with my coffee taking in the cool 15 Celsius air, and viola, I could enjoy my coffee in mere minutes. I felt like I was in a Mercedes, instead of my shitbox. I was a winner, if only briefly! Thank you for your service ChainBear!
1:01 start time
You are a scholar and a saint my good sir
King
Thanks mate
Thank you
Starting off the video with a one minute advert is a tad much. Any other channel and I'd have moved on to the next video by now.
why does this f1 car have 3 inline engines with only 1 piston bolted together and mounter transversly
that middle pot is doing alot of work.
It’s a U-6.
Or maybe a W-6
What you mean the engine diagram in the video. The V6 is being viewed from side on and only the right hand bank of 3 cylinders are shown which is what would be visible in real life. The 3 pistons have been drawn transverse which is wrong but for visualisation purposes it's acceptable i'm sure Stuart knows the pistons are longitudinally mounted.
@@andyelliott5084 He means why are there three seperate crankshafts ya donut
Why is this f1 car powered by a refridgerator
There should be more standardization here because this is another positive feedback loop, if you're like mercedes and rarely if ever need to battle for position you can skimp on cooling and get that further advantage over other cars.
This is part of the reason I support reverse grid qualifying. Mercedes would need to design cars to go through the pack. They'd likely still be the fastest car on the track, but it'd slow them down a bit, and it would be exciting to watch them fight to the front, even if it's just qualifying.
How do we guarantee that this cannot be gamed though?
Absolutely love the alpha tauri everywhere in this video
Great vid as always! I just feel there is one point which wasn't mentioned, which is the so called ban on party modes. By not allowing the merc's to alter their PU performace settings/maps, they couldn't clock it down to cool it down some, and then back up to quali mode and race past whomever is in front of them. This meant that even if Bottas dropped back far enough to cool the car, he would still not be fast enough when getting back behind them to overtake them, and the cycle just repeated. He said on the radio "we can't race with these settings" and I believe he was referring to the fact that he was not allowed to change the car to better suit the situation.
i don't know if you read youtube comments or not but i wanna say ive noticed your animations become increasingly complex and interesting video by video and well done and thank you for continually bettering the channel !!
The fact that it is called the 'ICE' when he is taking about extreme heat is funny
By far my favorite F1 videos on CZcams. I watched the entire series made on this sort of stuff. Sooo interesting, unfortunately now that I’m caught up, I have to wait for my next 9:36 of bliss every few days. Keep up the great videos
last time I was this early Ferrari was a competitive formula one team
last time you were this original, you were 2
Nice to see you grandpa!
@formulagodcomments
Dear sir, i will have you know that Ferrari is still very very competitive - just competes at the bottom end of the pack.
EDIT: They are just doing a rather long test on their cooling systems.
Heh
I think the best example of the importance of cooling is the time McLaren left a fan blocking Button's sidepod duct at Monaco a few years ago. It lasted all of 2 laps before everything went bang.
One of your best yet, these videos make F1 so much more fun to watch. Keep 'em coming!!!
My father is a refrigerator technician so this was like second nature to me
I remembered most of this when my dad taught this to me
finally the best explaination about radiators! thank you!!!
2:46 Louis Rossmann is that you?
"Like a knife through soup"
I mean, you're not wrong!
Lol
Q: "why Mercedes suffer when following cars"
A: well it's because they forgot how to follow cars because they rarely do it
The problem we saw that the Mercedes cars had last race does make sense on what we saw earlier this season or last season. I talking about that they (Or any of the other teams) may not be able to get their engine to perform well when in a race weekend with unusual high air termperature. I think it was last year where Ferrai had problems in the quali on Bahrain because of unusual high air temperature. I also remember that I talked with a mechainicer that also talk me that in theory a car engine works best if it gets large amount of cold air, because it can give off the heat faster. But of course in reality it doesnt work like that as the air will get hotter depending on where or how it goes around
NACA duct/scoops are sort of the gold standard in aviation for getting good fluid dynamics.
This guy should have million of followers.
He puts so much skill and hardwork on these videos.
“Slowing air down so there is time for transfer to occur” is a myth.
Sounds reasonable, Do you have any sources?
If this is not a myth you would feel warmer the more wind there is.
Chain bear knows why he’s talking about
@@evann5451 even the best make mistakes :)
Did anyone else notice that @5:18 the first radiator the hot and cold side of the radiator on the right sides but the next two are backwards? Probably just me. Anyway it doesn't affect what is another fantastic Chain Bear video. Much love to Stuart a one man education machine.
To be honest, the diagrams are just representative rather than exact, but I made the radiator colder as the air passes through :)
Hey Stuart, can you do a video on what they can and what they can't in building and mantaining an F1?
Like how many spare cars they can bring along, how many spare parts, which ones are standardized, how many spare wings they can have in case one breaks, If a broken wing can be replaced during the race, the penalties involved in replacing parts. And if possible, (most likely is a trade secret) how they build or repair the fairings.
That would be really interesting
Brazil 2018 was a good example of this, when Bottas’ engine gave out behind Charles because of heat
I think your explanation of the purpose of the ducting ahead of the radiator isn’t correct. The complexity of the ducting seems to be a question of packaging, “how do you present the largest possible face of a radiator to the airstream using the smallest possible opening in the bodywork?”
Because a radiator is itself a blockage to airflow, you often find them at a very oblique angle to the airstream, meaning a bigger radiator for the same sized opening. This kind of reminds me of the pleats in a paper filter, reducing pressure drop by increasing surface area.
Increasing the velocity through a radiator typically increases its efficiency because it means more turbulent flow, and the hot air gets replaced faster, but increasing surface area typically has a greater effect.
About your Skillshare plug, I would have personally found it more enticing had I known how long said 'free membership' will last. Is it a month? A week? We as a viewer don't know as you didn't mention. =)
I already subscribe to Skillshare and know how awesome it is, I'm simply thinking of those who don't realise how valuable a resource it can be. =)
A proper cooling setup also insures less DNF, more chances on track to do *something* and likely more championship points than zero which many teams seem to ignore altogether..
Lmao gotta love the three crankshaft Merc v6
(1:50)
And the mercedes being black is a consequence as well. Black absorbs heat
Black also radiates heat.
They already said it doesn't interfere the cooling system.
Red Bull & AlphaTauri are probably thanking Chain Bear for giving them some qualifying & race strategies for Mugello & beyond, especially since it may be pretty hot at the Tuscan GP.
Excellent graphical representation! Well done.
That's the irony of it: ICE (internal combustion engine) produces heat. :)
Very informative video. Keep up the good work.
why this channel hasn't got already 1M subs?
Can you do a video on how f1 lap times are actually timed accurately please
Old Olavian here! Nice video!
Oh oh oh, 3:12 , thats me! Second law of thermodynamics(!): Everything goes to sh*t! :))
Presumably it's not just that the dirty air in a slipstream is hotter but it's also lower pressure, so you're literally getting less air into the car to cool with
Another great video. Like Bottas in the race, my brain struggled to keep up with the technical stuff in my lunch break!
Well done for doing this vids you’re like a backup of F1 Media
Loving the driver with the wobbly knees! Looking forward to you bringing new animations in the future. Keep up the ace analysis.
I wonder how tight the cooling packages will be in Germany. Between the expected cold weather and fewer long acceleration zones
Monza is a high speed track and I'm thinking that they tried to reduce the drag at the cost of cooling to gain speed. They expected that their cars will be 1-2 as usual, hence no cooling issues but this plan failed so Bottas had to manage his car's temperature and all the things they need to manage these days, making it harder to match the pace of McLaren and Renault.
Once again, great content Chain Bear. Always a pleasure watching your videos.
Love the videos , explain so much visually.
1:17 got so confused as a Finn when you put Finnish in that spot😂
Please do a video about how F1 battery-circuitry design is regulated, audited and tested. This comes as capacitors and batteries can be internally designed to discharge at different rates, which hugely alters the impulse capabilities of a hybrid motor. Who knows, if some teams have been sandbagging a hidden feature?
So is this why the mercs are so fast?Less drag due to reduced cooling area?
I know ICE is Internal Combustion Engine, but can I just say it’s kind of funny to think about taking the heat out of the ICE
Catchy song at the end of the video.....❤ Love from India....🇮🇳
Would you be willing to do a video explaining what goes on-on Saturday? The things being looked at during P1-P3 and later into Q1-Q3? How many sets of tyres are allotted and the thinking into scrubbing them for use later. Why do teams turn up power to engines later in qualifying instead of full power the whole time?
Dose any one remember David Hobbs speaking on a type of aerodynamics that follows with the bodywork of the car, the same way water pouring out of a faucet that comes on contact with the backside of a spoon behaves?
What’s that called?
“Coandular ??”
(I botched that up)
I went from a skill share advert into 2 CZcams adverts I couldn't skip
3:12 That's actually the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics, not the second
you may be right but also Zeroth looks like how you would name a world of warcraft or RPG character.
Brilliant as always, thorough yet simple. It's creators like you that make F1 accessible to new comers like me.
Very well done, as always. Clean and clear. Much like the air Mercedes is expecting most races
Very cool conceptual explanation.
Small small ideas can offer a great extend of performance in F1.
Great work
Okay, watching again just because, but this time I decided I wanted to know what "Valtteri" was saying at c. 1:20. According to Google Translate, "I can't make progress because of the Mercedes overheating" - which I should have guessed! Btw, as far as I can tell, that "stray" n should have been at the end of the previous word (no, I'm not retyping it!).
Welcome to my world. Motorsport and linguistics. Yes, I'm a geek. Not a nerd though, I do have some standards!
Really amazing and informative videos for the F1 community with simple and easy to understand animation . I have learnt alot complex concepts regarding the sport.
2:53 my mac just over heated like a few minutes ago. Thats why I'm making my custom pc with the new 3070 coming in October. I don't know why people buy these expensive apple products.
Well you did buy a Mac lol
Mr Froggy Man it was given as a gift for Christmas. I wanted a computer, but didn’t know which one and, so my father got me my Mac.
miguel torres your dad prolly didn’t know better be glad he got got u something, but now go and build that pc trust it’s way better
A big part of the reason why the Macbook overheats is due to Intel having relatively poor performance-per-watt on their recent generation of chips for a veriety of reasons.
For the new PC, keep an eye out for the Zen3-based CPUs which was just announced today to be revealed on October 8 (likely to be branded as either Ryzen 4000 or Ryzen 5000, and don't confuse it with the Ryzen 4000 APUs which have model numbers ending in G like the Ryzen 4700G - those are Zen2 parts).
For PC hardware component reviews I personally swear by Gamers Nexus, Hardware Unboxed (TechSpot for written versions, but articles are sometimes delayed), and Anandtech (primarily for CPU, but their results are sometimes incomplete on product launch). Digital Foundry also has some very in-depth game performance analysis for benchmarking PC hardware, but their choice of games can be outdated at times.
It may also be worth noting that it was also announced today that the RDNA2-based GPUs will be revealed on October 28 (likely branded as the Radeon RX 6000 series), but that might be too late and you sound like you've already got your heart set on the 3070, so...
During the SC restart, Bottas overheated the car by the exit of turn 2. The Merc really doesn't like running hot.
There is one thing I don't understand, why does the air need to be slowed at the radiators? Doesn't having a higher air velocity increase the deltaT between the air and the radiator as well as the turbulence, thus increasing the heat exchange rate? I'm a bit confused on this one
Another advantage Lewis had making passes: he generally took advantage of cars that were alone or maybe in pairs; he didn't have to face any longer trains like Bottas was behind. The DRS train effect is a weird one, kinda counterintuitive a bit when we think of "'ol slipstreamer races"...maybe worth its own video?
Very interesting video!
That thermal expansion was so smooth
One question, could the colour of the car be giving higher temperatures? Black clothes for example make you warmer in summer, so that is also affecting mercedes in my opinion. As well, the car was designed to be silver and changed later on, so they had not done all the planning testing in black.
I think there is an error in the video (4:55). The idea that you want to slow down the air flow to have more time to transfer heat is wrong. The radiators will always have air around them, but the longer a certain volume of air spends in the radiator, the hotter it will get and it will remove less heat (heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temperature). You always want your cooling air as fast as possible, that way the air around the radiators is always at the minimum temperature. If they have ducts for the cooling air it is probably to get the air to the different radiators and heat exchangers.
No, you really do need to slow the air down. The air first goes through a volume expansion before being passed around the engine. It's a fallacy to think faster air automatically means better cooling
2:16 pretty cool to have 3 crankshafts in an F1 car lol
Listen. All I'm saying is that one crankshaft in an F1 car produces 1000 horsepower, so it only makes sense that if you triple it, you triple the horsepower! Pretty sure that's what Mercedes have done this year..
Could you do an explanation video regarding wider nose like the ferrari style and narrower nose like the mercedes style? I have heard there is quite a big difference
Perfect cooling is the holly grail in every motor sport.
I think you can undergo a PhD. course in F1 related topics.
Apparently you can, with the immense knowledge you have about F1, give a hard time to one of the most skilled persons of F1.
That’s prob why in quali they went out so early. They didn’t need a tow and then they needed the cool air in order to keep temps down cause if they were in the long trains they would’ve overheated
Great video as usual. But 3 Crankshafts in an engine? Interesting
This may be a stupid question. I'm new to Formula 1 and I'm trying to figure out how the FIA balances "slowing cars down" vs. "keeping things competitive". Is it fair that innovations by the fastest cars are regularly punished by new regulations?