How to Make Good Myths in modern times | an epic roundtable discussion
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2022
- Four myth-makers break down what a "myth" really is (and is not), and how artists can overcome barriers to create beautiful, and sometimes shocking, stories that unify communities and help change the world.
Fantasy Author @NicholasKotarauthor
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Tolkein Scholar, author, RPG designer @RichardRohlin
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- 'Queen of the Night' breakdown video w/ Derek: • Unraveling Silver Thre...
- Amon Sul podcast - www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts...
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Singer-Songwriter, Filmmaker, Neil DeGraide of @dirtpoorrobins
- Silent Fantasy Film 'Queen of the Night': • QUEEN of the NIGHT (A ...
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- www.dirtpoorrobins.com/
#storytelling #myth #writing
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My name is Derek J Fiedler. I live in Northern California. I'm a husband, father, writer, and conversationalist, who likes to take a deeper look into movies, culture, religion, and various levels of reality. I publish stories, articles, concept albums, podcasts, and video essays. Along the way, I also share parts of my learning journey through conversation, film analysis, book review, and symbolic interpretation. I write articles for the Symbolic World Blog (thesymbolicworld.com/author/d..., as well as newsletters and short articles about Life & Creativity at derekjfiedler.substack.com.
This is such a good conversation! There's a lot of good talking in this corner of the internet about ideas but I've been feeling lately that it's high time we take these ideas and start creating. I wanna get down to business -- making good art and telling good stories!
Yes! 🙌
Remember to Subscribe to the channel, if you'd like. And check out the links above 👆for Nicholas, Richard, and Neil. They have some exciting projects out there and in the works.
26:30 once you make a graven image, the creature is worshipped
This is the first I've heard of Neil making a werewolf movie, super interested in how that's going to go! A few months back I was inspired in very large part by DPR to resurrect my old band to help me make a concept album about werewolves, also inspired by concepts I'd heard from interviews with Neil on this channel, and from Richard's Universal History series with Jonathan. Richard even gave me the ending! With his line about the best foundation for a city being a wedding rather than a murder. You can imagine how excited and intrigued I am to find out how Neil treats the subject matter. 😀 I love that the four of you know each other, and i deeply appreciate that we all get to listen to you have a conversation about stories and myths.
Wow. Thanks for saying this publicly. It’s very encouraging to hear things like this. Like Richard alluded to, the highest response to any art is to be inspired to make your own. I consider that the highest compliment.
So cool. Would love to hear the songs. Please share them.
@Derek J Fiedler Oh! Sure, okay! This is the most complete track at the moment:
czcams.com/video/TPiJL2EMHQQ/video.html
@Dirt Poor Robins Since i have your attention, is Queen of the Night in any way a response to the Little Mermaid, or are their similarities a coincidence?
@@jytogatewood I know why you would say that. There are some external similarities. But it wasn’t a conscious response at all and I think there aren’t enough solid connections between the two stories to feel like they are directly related. But with that said, I do see some connections.
The comment Richard made about the shallowness of Rings of Power makes me think that shallowness is actually the opposite of being, in the sense that it is the body without the meaning. So basically the world of the horizontal is shallow because it denies the depth that can only come from hierarchy.
It also makes me think that what people call "propaganda" is merely shallow communication, false hierarchy. I don't think propaganda is inherently shallow or false, to me the gospel is the best piece of propaganda, and icons are propaganda, and we are propaganda, and everything that exists wants to propagate their ideas. When propaganda has depth then it becomes the gospel.
Well said. In order to have depth wisdom must be stretched by understanding. To have details you need a mountain.
The wheat and the tares are propagated in the same field and sorted in the end.
Thanks for the insightful comment.
Nice group!
Thanks, James. Glad you dropped in.
You’re a nice group too, James
I think Neil struck gold with the whole expanding and contracting what's meaningful. That's why talking is valuable. And the Word is valuable because it is the truth that sets you free.
In this larger conversation this means that myths are valuable because they are iconic, and they are iconic because they are the spiritual and fleshly outgrowths that redeem the world. The thorniness of these words (words understood incarnationally as both immaterial speech and also as garments written and musically produced), their projection into the world, represents both the possibility for myth to reflect and worship God, or to distort God's image and worship themselves.
👆 super helpful
Hmm, what do we mean by "the next Tolkien." Algorithms are creating particular pathways for everyone to go down, and I'm not sure a story can have that kind of reach again that isn't delivered in our hands by corporations. I do think we can build community, but maybe only the "germs of the future." Unless that future is what we're talking about, or unless we believe a truly good story can break through.
Your point raises good questions. Was Lord of the Rings a movement for a moment gone past? Yet, it was written for a community (Great Britain) during a dark time (WW2). Could it be that we find ourselves in a similar moment waiting for the arrival of such a story? A myth is a living story told to bring communities together. Will we see a great and far reaching myth like Lord of the Rings? I suppose only time will tell. Myth is as great as the people practicing it. One takeaway from this conversation is that myth is living. We participate in it's telling and retelling in our daily lives. A good myth builds community.
Just a few reflections from your thoughtful prompts.
@@DerekJFiedler Exactly, and communities, at least these kinds of communities like the symbolic world, aren't geographical anymore. Just taking music as an example, I hardly know anyone personally with my tastes in music, they're scattered around the world, so yea I may be singing a song and participating, but my gf won't necessarily like it because the algorithms can particularize our tastes. The same can be said with movies now due to the volume of stuff getting pumped out. But yes, Endgame was at least something archetypal, and I think we saw them trying to deconstruct it and pull a GoT on Tony Stark with Captain Marvel, but that didn't happen, probably because of the negative feedback.
I think there will always be hope, but I think change has to happen at all levels, such as the lower technologic, economic, political, etc.
Aha! The myrr bearers of myth. I love it. If, I can add to your enquiry about, becoming a artist, a creator. Whatever you do, follow through the best you can, whether, newsletter, a book, music or vhs collection, whatever responsibility you care to burden yourself with, remember the dragon is more afraid than you are capable. Love and peace with you and family.
PS : I am thinking old world classics and if you were to recommend a book to a friend, which would be it?
Love the encouragement ⚔️
Great conversation! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you sir. Means a lot coming from you. You have the most helpful interpretive structures. I'd be curious what you would have to add to the topic.
@@DerekJFiedler Pfft, I doubt I'd have anything helpful to say, not in regards to traditional storytelling. I'm afraid my mind is locked in a modernist mode. Have you seen the new movie Tár, where Cate Blanchett plays a classical music conductor? The ending is really fascinating in regards to this topic.
This is the discussion we need! I love Richard
So glad you tuned in!
Some of my favorite folks! I can't believe I missed this
You're done of my favorite folk. Glad you found them discussion, or did it found you...
Great stuff guys! This a good panel discussion Derek.
Many thanks to you, kind sir. Glad you enjoyed it.
wonderful!
I'm glad you liked it
Ive made one Orthodox short film, so this discussion is fascinating! Where can I find other Orthodox filmmakers other than through Byzanfest? Is it ok to have a “theme” when making films? I feel like I have the most experience with the feeling of grief, so that, I think, will be my source of inspiration moving forward but it feels limited.
I also live in Nor Cal!
Thank you for such a wonderfully rich, thought-provoking, and insightful conversation.
I'm glad you found it so helpful. What do you find most interesting?
@@DerekJFiedler After watching through the conversation a few times, several things stood out to me. I enjoyed the discussions distinguishing mythology (bones of a living myth) from myths that still have active participation, what makes stories propaganda, horizontal vs. vertical storytelling, the importance of stepping out of Lewis and Tolkien’s shadows to start creating new things, reflections on the sacred imagination, and especially the emphasis on creating work for the writer/artist’s own community.
Thank you again for the wonderful discussion. Will likely come back to it regularly and share it with others.
I need a friend that’s good with a camera that’s pretty much it. I hope to be able to make films and write more but having to pay bills is so in the way of it all.
Thank you for sharing. I hear you. Richard's advice was hard but helpful - Do what you can and be disciplined. Someone made a film using Neil's song But never a key using a smart phone. Get better and learn by finishing things. These are a few of my takeaways from this convo at least. What kind of films do you make?
@@DerekJFiedler they are either romantic or horror I like the binary swing between the two. I’m not to that part yet but yes I find the best advice is hard and not what you want to hear. It really does come down to working more. And that’s okay. Sometimes it just needs to come from someone you respect like Richard to have that come through.
@@ShowMeMoviesInc. are you familiar with the channel Film Courage? They have valuable material and motivation for writers.
33:24 I personally felt it was bloated. Perhaps that were the point tho
Just WOW
No one invited Jonathan 🥺 lol
We are priming the conversational pump for Jonathan ;)
Jonathan can't have all the fun. Gotta leave some discussion room for the littler people!
21:15
For those who like me didn't know who Nicholas Kotar was talking about: Martin Shaw, Malcolm Guite
Thank you, kindly. I just started watching Martin Shaw/Jonathan Pageau discussion on the More Christ channel.
@@DerekJFiedler didn't know about that crossover. Thank you too then - for this recommendation and, of course, for bringing Neil, Nicholas, Richard together with you in this format.
@@dmitrypetrouk8924 Nice, I'll see you there. You're welcome. I'm grateful they made the time to share their wisdom.
Great video, but way too many ads popping up every few minutes!
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, despite the adversity. Yikes, that's not fun. I'll take a look under the hood to see if I have the control to tone down the add blasting.
Sure enough, there was a bazillion adds that YT inserted. I deleted most of them down to a manageable level that shouldn't disrupt viewing experience. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Don't hold off on Blood Meridian.
I've collected the entire Le Carré library over the past couple years from local thrift stores. Never read them or even heard about them before but they have the best cover art (l judge all my books by their covers). Guess I'll have to crack em open!
Nice find! Thrift store scores are my favorite. Let us know what you think of the books after you read them.
You should get man carrying thing CZcamsr in one of these discussions