The 2009 Orlando Magic were ahead of their time
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- In 2009, the Orlando Magic made it all the way to the NBA finals by surrounding big man Dwight Howard with shooters around the perimeter. The Magic led the league in threes while using a style of play that was rare for the NBA at that time.
This video breaks down head coach Stan Van Gundy's X's & O's and style of play from that 2009 season.
The Athletic article on the Magic: theathletic.com/1504385/2020/...
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0:00 Intro
2:12 The Stats
4:07 4-Out 1-In
7:15 Beating the Tag - Sport
The 95 Rockets were the ancient aliens of this. They shot 24 threes a game post-all star break after trading for Drexler. League average doesn't hit 24 until 2016.
Yep, with the exact same 4-out scheme that the Magic used with Hakeem taking Dwight's position as the inside threat.
Shaq's Magic team with Penny were doing this before the 95 Rockets.
@@cflo1386 False. The highest 3PA per game rate for the Shaq Magic teams was 95-96 and even that was only 20.1 per game (only 3rd best that year). Nice try, Satan.
@@Gravy494 he said post all star game. Meaning they made the adjustment mid season. Which is why their average was prolly shorter than other teams. Because it was only for a two-three month span in which they did that within the regular season
Like with Dwight, it was arguably the best way to build around Hakeem, given the limitations of his passing (though he was, from what I hear, much better than Dwight). The shortened line helped as well.
In 2009 everyone (ESPN, Inside the NBA, SI, etc) would say "live by the three, die by the three" and "no three-point shooting team can win the championship". Imagine if they could see what happened later, not only can you win championships shooting the 3, but every damn team in the NBA shoots more from beyond the arc than the 2009 Magic.
That's still not necessarily a good way to play the game even nowadays in most cases. The traditional aspects of basketball still hold true, a lot of teams just deny them. The team that gets more clean looks, and higher percentage shots at the basket will usually win the game. It's not old-school basketball, it's not traditional basketball, it's just basketball. Spacing, and 3-point shooting has been a huge aspect of the game for a very long time now. Teams have just taken it to extreme levels. The Warriors are still the only team that plays the game from the outside in that has won a championship. The other franchises that have won championships over the last decade (other than the Warriors) were not great 3-point shooting teams, yet they still took a ton of 3-point shots during those seasons. I think the whole idea of 4 1 spacing, and the 5 out has ruined basketball in a way. People think you have to have shooters at every position in order to compete these days. The entire front court has been almost erased from the game in terms of skillsets. Every team runs the same exact sets now, and everyone is a Guard. It's not nearly as interesting or diverse as basketball was 10 to 12 years ago to be honest. It's like professional basketball has lost 50% of its identity. Teams don't even know how to set picks anymore, and refs don't call moving screens.
@@donavonhoward1899 I just watched the full series vs gsw in the 2022 finals, yes they were def the better team than us, but when people used to accuse the warriors of doing lots of illegal screens, I used to defend them a lot even when I hated them before, I defended them by stating everyteam does it, but after watching 2022 playoffs, I deeply apologize, my goodness warriors do it a lot worse than all the other teams, they abuse it, and do it a lot more, that quote from Andrew Bogut makes a lot more sense now to me, I felt sad and stupid for defending golden state like that, when its done to your team it hits different
@@theonlygoodonehere2259 it's on the refs to call it so....
@@haroldisaacreyes262 although thats true, but if you know you are breaking the rules, you should rely on refs to tell you, or instruct on the right ways of setting a proper legal screen, its common sense, and they are playing in a pro sports televised league
@@donavonhoward1899
Well, that’s the META.
I don’t see a problem
And Hedo was clutch asf
Rashard Lewis hit the GW in game 1 of the ECF. Hedo hit a go ahead shot with less than 5 sec left in Game 2 in CLE as well. Without LBJs buzzer beater, it could’ve been a sweep. I believe Hedo also had a go ahead shot in game 3 or 4 too
Hedo and Rashard Lewis were on adderall there is just no way they shot nearly 50% from 3 that series and couldn't do it in the finals
Love this, you should do more of this on historic teams ahead of their time!
I agree
So true, no media would talk about it, just picking the easy redundant topics. That's an excellent analysis
Orlando didn’t really reinvent the wheel here though.
A super influential team finally got the respect. Great job Jordan 👏🏻👌
Every time someone says “Lebron’s Cavs” I hear “LeBron’s calves”
Props to dwight's dominance in 09 in pioneering these plays.
They totally destroyed the Hawks in a playoff series a year or two later. Atlanta had no clue how to stop the more modern style of play.
Yea every game that series was like a 30 point blowout and a sweep
@@sheed321yeah and when they moved way from it(traded rashard Lewis) they lost to the hawks after
Magic's down fall started when they traded hedo for VC. not trying to argue that Hedo is a better player than VC, but hedo is a better fit for Magic since he is a better primary playe maker and his length presents a unique challenge for teams at the time since magic is basically putting 3 6-10 (or above) players on the court and they can all move.
Exactly right. Vince a better player than Hedo, but Hedo was the right guy for the team. After the Carter trade kind of flopped, the Magic were never as good and Dwight left. If they stuck with the ‘09 core, maybe they win the next year, who knows?
That Hedo to Dwight lob play was so effective, what a cool detail to explain. Excellent video.
unmistakable silhouette 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂both of them but especially Stan
I've always cited the Magic as the birth of the modern NBA. I appreciate your nuanced breakdown. Brilliant stuff
Just thinking about your choices when you played the Magic back then: Let Dwight work solo and give up 20 and 15…..or let their shooters go crazy and make 15+ 3s 😭😮💨
Imagine how more successful they could have been done if Howard actually had some decent post moves
@@karlanthonymargate7362 Dwight was halfway decent compared to today's Centers if we're being honest. People act like he was Rudy Gobert on the block. He had a decent running jump hook going right and a left hook out of a drop step as well.
Rasheed Lewis wasn’t considered a 4 back then, he was a tall 3 in Seattle. Him playing the 4 was considered a crazy experiment at the time
This is actually insane, I remember using Orlando in NBA 2k, and just ABUSING everyone online with 3 point shots. This was a time when nobody used to shoot 3s back then wtf
Someone needs to start a basketball startup company that employs Gibson Pyper (Half Court Hoops), Jordan Sperber (hoopvision68), and Ben Taylor (Thinking Basketball)
All 3 know how to analyze the game, break down X's and O's brilliantly, put events in historical context - and most of all, are able to communicate all that in a fan-friendly manner. I'd pay to see that kind of company, and they could compete with clickbait and hot take factories like ESPN and Bleacher Report.
Brilliant idea!
bball breakdown ??? He gives a more in depth x and o's analysis because hes a coach and he talks about shooting forms, footwork and body control more than any other bball CZcamsr.
@@GameChanger-xi4iy love Coach Nick too! yup throw them all in there
Throw in JxmyHighRoller
@@brycegrugett278 love him too! A company with THAT level of storytelling AND X's and O's breakdowns would be unstoppable
Great work - I wish more mainstream basketball content is like this. The NFL may have people giving hot takes, but sometimes they throw in some in depth analysis in games. From what I’ve seen, a lot of basketball media is about the athletic ability of the individuals rather than how the team works and is cohesive.
Thank you for pushing out in-depth content about basketball, it’s much needed.
Lmao he had to put the head slap in there 🤣
It’s incredible to see Al Horford with 0 threes back then and now he’s one of the more efficient shooters in the league.
Crazy how spurs were top 5 in 3 and ball movement even as they were aging. Those guys changed through so many playstyle from 90s to 2010s.
They need to put this team on 2k!
Can we talk about Dwight's passing tho? That was pretty good
Yes such an underrated passer under double team.
I don’t know how your videos don’t get more views man. They are so interesting and informative!
Dwight was a different breed on the Magic and the shooters we have around him with Jameer cutting into the lane and kicking it out was a thing of beauty ......ahhhhh nostalgia
The Lakers were able to defeat them because they could go from the Gasol/Bynum lineups to Gasol/Odom. Essentially matching Orlando with their own 4 out offense.
Even then that series was insanely close. If Courtney Lee made the layup late in game 2 and if Dwight didn't smoke those 2 free throws in game 4 the Magic would've gone into game 5 leading the series 3-1
@@adamlord6332 lakers were just better which is a testament to how bad defensively the teams are in todays basketball, 2016 thunder were kind of similar to 2009 lakers on the defensive end
Too bad Courtney Lee missed that layup and they decided to bring jameer back from injuries in the middle of the nba finals
Great video man! I was rooting for Orlando during that season. Howard was a beast!
Awesome video. That 08-10 magic squad was super fun to watch. Fun time to be a magic fan.
07-12*
It’s unfortunate they didn’t get the ring though, they had so much potential but were outmatched by the Lakers in 09
This is such a fascinating breakdown of how the Magic would run spread PnR to generate offense. In the regular season, they had an above-average offense and the best defense in the NBA (thanks to the rim protection of Dwight), but in the playoffs, they had the 5th ranked offense and the 3rd ranked defense. I wonder what adjustments the Lakers had made to slow down this team's offense, or maybe just game planning to just outgun the Magic's offense.
Essentially the Lakers just committed to switching and they had the length and versatility to make switches on guys like Lewis.
Also Orlando had zero answer for Kobe. They would resort to doubling him at times, which led to shooters draining 3s, including a key 3 from Fisher that tied Game 4 with 4 seconds left (Lakers were up 2-1, if the Magic won it would tie the series) and the Lakers went on to win in OT from another Fisher 3 that came from doubling Kobe. These two doubles effectively ended the series as Orlando were then given a 3-1 deficit.
So to sum up: Lakers had the length and versatility for them to commit to switches and Kobe was so good that they tried to have other guys beat them and those other guys hit their shots and beat them.
@@TheGeorgeD13 2 stars vs 1
HoopVision another AMAZING VID BRO!
Always a good day when you post!
Loved watching this team! Great video and great stuff as always.
Great breakdown. Love your vids
such great content, thanks!
W one of my favorite teams in history
great video! thanks
great video, Jeff is truly an underrated coach
That was Stan van gundy
@@thebinsubtleissubtle559 lol whoops
great video man!
Stan van Gundy should get more credit for arguably starting the 3 point revolution.
Great video! For those who are too young Dwight Howard was the truth. Taken 1st overall out of high school he was the center of the 2k’s early 2010’s. A straight beast!
Rashard Lewis was one of my favorite players of all time. He was like a Durant but better shooter/defender and wasn’t ball dominant. In todays NBA Lewis would be easily a 25ppg scorer.
Hedo is an all-time great Euro who everyone forgets about. Point forward and could take over a game. Size, skill, shooting but his defense was so-so at best. Still a baller!
keep up the vids and your analysis
Adore your videos. Please make video "how Lakers managed beat Magic offence"
great video, thanx
Severely underrated team
Great channel
Amazing video.
Good Video. This video was spot on.
This channel is so underrated
Another great video
One of the best teams at the start the best era in basketball
Man I love me some Turkagloo, amazing vids
This is great content
with ewing on the bench
Loved this one
Great video! Would love to see breakdowns of other teams that were ahead of their time from the 90s and 00s, such as the Magic with Scott and Anderson, Suns with Nash, and Pacers with Reggie
Having 1 or 2 good 3 pointers doesnt mean "ahead of time" lol
Cover more about NBA, or even FIBA Basketball
Outstanding video Jordan, as always !!!
Was a great time to live in Orlando.
thank you for video good learn
This is one of those topics that I always rant about to my buddies when I’m high asf lmaoooo. Love the video
Man Hedo was so cold
I'm so angry. My god dude it still turns me red hot just thinking about it. The Cavaliers were supposed to match up against the Lakers in the finals. LeBron vs Kobe.
The worst part is that the Cavs losing wasn't preventable. Their defense lacked size and Dwight jumped right over Varejao and Ilgauskas on lobs. All Orlando did was pass the ball over everyone, and then, they shot it over everyone. The Magic's entire starting lineup was 6'10 and LeBron was tasked with guarding the PASS. We couldn't steal the ball and we couldn't play man-to-man defense which we were very decent at.
I remember Varejao mostly stopped LeBron from recovering to Dwight or Rashard Lewis if they got switched. They just kept bumping into each other. Orlando didn't use a traditional ball handler so LeBron had no lockdown assignment and was forced to stand between Dwight, Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis while they passed the ball over his head. He got 3 or 4 blocks on Dwight that series but it was an utter defensive collapse every single night and there was nothing they could do about it.
Then, when the Cavs made adjustments it only got worse. The defense fully committed to Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu in game 6, because their clutch threes were literally murdering them, and this allowed Dwight to explode for 40 points in the closeout game.
I vastly preffered playing the Warriors.
Look at this nonsense no one read
I miss my team winning... Hopefully this season some things change on our side and we get to the playoffs...
Not Skip too my Lou slapping House head like that 😂😂💀
I remember what you said in the other video that there was a time that switching was considered lazy but now it is a necessity.
Its crazy that Dwight only started shooting threes recently can you imagine how game breaking it would be in 2009 if Dwight was taking and making threes.
Generally if a player can't make free throws at a high rate, they can't hit 3s at a high rate. I won't believe Howard can hit 3s until I see him hit free throws at 70%+.
@@Peter-hx3im Dwight would not be encouraged to shoot threes. But yeah it is possible for him to make more than 70 percent free throws
The 4-out perimeter attack and Dwights interior play was what made that team so good. I don't think it gets better if Dwight starts shooting 3s
I’m convinced they could’ve run the spin pass from Hedo every time.
The beauty of it is they shot smart threes!
Big factssss💯💯‼️
As a magic fan.... I love my team sometimes
Stan!
Great stuff as usual.
Shout out to Skip 2 my Lou aka Rafer Alston one of the very few streetball legends to make a career in the NBA.
My favourite team ever
I watched the Magic in the playoffs that year. I remember how much Rashard Lewis killed everyone with his shooting.
Lewis was ahead of his time
Finally somebody who said it
elite
JJ Redick needed more of a shout in this video, I feel like his style of spot up and cutting three point shooting were hugely influential for the game today. This Magic squad got me into the Magic and the NBA, will always love em. Magic gunna have their best season this year in ages.
Kyle Korver was kinda doing similar stuff even before him cause it was the only way for him to get any looks from the iso ball hogs. It's just unfortunately Korver wasn't as blessed with more innovative thinker coach unlike JJ Reddick as he only started to be properly used after he joined Hawks. But yeah, JJ was great and was super important part of my Clippers. It's a shame that Doc didn't know how to use him. I'd argue you would have put JJ or Korver in that GSW dinasty and they probably would have gotten similar results since the aruably the key to their defense wasn't individual POA defense but rather team defense which actually made Green and Iggy their core parts of the defense and not Klay's 1o1 defense. But yeah, I am not taking it away from Klay, Klay at his peak was absolutely amazing and his defense was a great luxury for the whole team.
Nice video, wonder why ESPN does not do such things
Probably because they only appeal to complete casuals and exist as an entertainment company with very few proper analysts
Because the media doesn’t like Dwight Howard
Televised basketball media will forever be laughable compared to NFL networks's in-depth offerings.
This video really made me realize how the game changed its so obvious to only have one guy clogging the paint and now that guy can shoot too so u can play five out ... shooting made everything easier for the offense and everything harder for the defense
I want to say St. Josephs (Philadelphia) from 2000 to 2004 seemed to be shooting mad 3s. Jamie Nelson was on that team
you couldve shown how modern teams would rather tag from the 2 side, and how the extra pass really just is an extension of this, when the D x´s out
really great video, although i think you should’ve included why this scheme didn’t work in the finals against the lakers
This dude does not miss
I didn't realize it at the time, but after watching the rise of the Phoenix Suns and then the Warriors even better than Nash lead Suns it reminded me of a certain team that stopped my choice for GOAT reaching the Finals.
What pissed me off was that management overreacted to Howard and traded a decent 3pt shooter in Sasha and a still above par inside guy in Big Ben away for a Shaq that wasn't worth his paycheck anymore and just clogged the paint for LeBron.
1:10, my favorite part about the 23 threes or more in a game in 2022 is that, Golden is not on that list, wild to think about since the majority of the fandom thinks that Golden State, that has two of the best shooters ever, would be easily number one in 3's made per game, Curry hit close to 6 by himself.
Golden State is marketed and not accurately portrayed by the media. They are almost an NBA propaganda story. What doesn't get said about the Warriors is that they are top 5 in defense every year that they make it to the finals. They have versatile defenders who can switch defend any action. Draymond Green is the most versatile defender I've ever seen. He can guard 1 through 5 on any team. He's not a Rodman in the post, or Payton on the perimeter. But giving you 80 percent of both of those guys together is pretty damn good. Then throw into the mix that Draymond leads them in assists from high post elbow action with off ball cutting and again you are seeing things that nobody else can do.
To me it's funny how the copy cat syndrome played out. It's OK for the media to get it wrong, or to even try to market something a certain way because of a perceived effectiveness to bring in more fans. What I don't understand are the other teams trying to copy all of the three point shooting to the point that they shoot more 3's than the Warriors. If you had infinite cap space and could just sign any other players in the league that you wanted to you couldn't duplicate the Warriors shooting. There isn't a Steph 2.0 out there. There isn't a Klay 2.0 out there. What could be duplicated is getting versatile defenders, playing switch defense on every action, using high post playmaking with off ball cutters, and nobody is trying to copy that.
I would even go so far as to argue that 3 point shooting isn't even the most important aspect of the Warriors success. That the majority of their effectiveness comes from how the Warriors defend the ball and run off ball action.
@@Davivd2 Exactly, Golden State thrives with their movement, versatility, extra passes and efficient shots, while having versatile defensive wings,
@@Davivd2 But the league HAS been copying the stuff GSW does. Versatile defense is all the rage now after seeing guys like gobert become limited in the playoffs. Switching has also become extremely popular. Hell the rockets took the warriors to 7 in 2018 BECAUSE of their switching versatile defense turning GSWs motion offense into isofest. And the reason people don't copy draymonds high post offense is because GSW only run that because draymond is so limited and just bad offensively. It's the best way to maximize the little offense he does have.
They still avg the third most threes made per game. Let's not act like the three isn't also a part of their success.
@@Davivd2 I’ve been saying this forever!! The warriors have always had elite defense and are at the middle of the league in 3PA, yet everyone says “all they do is shoot threes”
If all they did was shoot threes, they would end up live the mavericks.
How about doing a video breaking down the double teams that Steph faced vs Durant faced in the NBA Finals?😎
Dwight had the right personnel around him: redick, lewis, turkoglu, jameer, pietrus... all good to great 3pt shooters
Such an underrated team, I used to love watching these guys play, Hedo and Rashard were my guys
Great
Whoa. I forgot about 2009 Dwight.
I always remember this Magic team as the team to usher in the modern 3pt style of basketball. Younger fans try to tell me no it was Steph Curry & I don't know what I'm talking about. Sure Steph did a lot to change the game but he wouldn't have been allowed by his coaches to shoot that many threes if it weren't for the Magic a few years before. You need proof of concept
This same team had the record for 3s in a quarter or one half, correct? If I remember correctly Jameer Nelson & Rashard Lewis put up like 11-12 3s in one quart
It’s truly unfortunate that they had so much potential yet never got over the hump.
shout out to turk - running pnr's at 6'8
Bro this is why I loved playing 2k11 magic...it was too easy
That Orlando team shot a lot of 3s, but they weren't ahead of their time. Don Nelson's "Small Ball" was truly a concept that was ahead of its time.
Orlando was just very unique and optimized playing around Howard perfectly. Howard was the last MVP caliber center that couldn't shoot so in that way they were traditional.
Somewhat I agree but Howard was so dominant in the paint it work either let him go one on one or double team him and give up a open 3 so this strategy was kinda more effective then a 5 out cause Howard just so dominant down low .. so in Somewhat way this was kinda ahead of its time cause teams had to pick and choose if they wanted to double team Howard or not kinda like a 5 out if they wanna stop the Gurad from rim running and kicking it out to a 3pt shooter if the help defense comes
Watching the 09 Magic offense now, while advanced for the time, looks so primitive now.
Key player: Dwight
The Orlando magic don't get the credit they deserve for this innovation