Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Hanse, what about Elan? In depth mid size production cruiser comparison
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In this episode we review main stream, similarly sized and priced production cruisers. We compare 8 to 10 year old production boats from Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Hanse and Elan. Share our thought process of choosing Elan over competition. We focus on areas such as hull design, construction, keel, rudder, comfort, tankage and lay out other important specs from cruiser and live aboard perspective.
Now we spent more than a year and 1200nm with her, we share our honest opinion about this not so known production cruiser. We conclude with a detailed boat tour and point out things we do and don't like about our 2016 Elan Impression 45.
About Us:
We recently quit our high-tech jobs in California, bought a sailboat, and moved to the Mediterranean. We are just starting our adventure of sailing around the world and experiencing life on a sailboat. In this sailing vlog 2022, we will share our experiences as a sailing couple on CZcams who spends our first year sailing extensively throughout the Mediterranean coast. We will document our experiences, travel discoveries, and costs throughout our sailing journey. We hope you will find the sailing passage in this video helpful.
Thank you for the immense depth of your video. We are just at the stage of considering what boat we buy for an extended circumnavigation. I've set up a similar spreadsheet, but you have given me several ideas to add details. I appreciate the clarity of your insights; many of the things you identify are very much in tune with my thinking, especially about keel configuration, rudder, etc. We're enjoying every moment of the process.
Glad it was helpful! Hope to see you on the water soon.
One of the best comparisons of boats I have ever seen 🎉 well done
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for the comparison and walkthrough. It is helpful to see the follow up from your initial adventure to find the right boat.
Glad you enjoyed it
Very informative video. Thank you. We are looking at boats and now we will be adding Elan to our list of boats choices. We have skied on Elan skis for years and had no idea they are the same company.
Thanks for this video. Just starting to think about a sail boat for cruising and this is very educational.
You are most welcome.
Great review and with logical thinking and conclusion. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Great video. We have the older Impression 434 and it's been an amazing yacht. Having also failed on some other brands you mentioned is day the build quality is a step above the beneteau and Jeanneau.
This was a handy and professional walk-through of the Elan 45. It is a pity that the built-in seaworthy production features were somewhat degraded by the overuse of windows. With that said, I will include Elan in considered used boats for a potential future purchase. Well done, and thanks. Cheers.
You got it
@@SeaBeeSailing If you looking for a blue water cruiser with plenty room for living and a huge cockpit area I can tell you: We really like our Impression 45. Crossed the Atlantik and living on it since 2021.
Many thanks for providing us with so much information of our boat. We bought an Impression 45 in 2017 and are living on it since 2021. You are absolutely right with your pros and cons. All together we can highly recommend an Impression 45 for cruising and living. We crossed the Atlantik with it and felt always save. It is a cruiser through and through and a very good blue water sailor. Greetings: S.Y. Blackfield.
Glad it was helpful! Hats off to you for crossing the pond. We hope to do it one day on our elan.
Thank you for all the details and sharing your hard won research! I have arranged a charter this summer with my family on an Impression 45 in Greece (Ionion Islands) to get an in depth feel for if it will be a good option for our family in a couple years.
Nice vessel, she's on my list. Thank you
Beneteau is called the Peugeot of the seas and I certainly experienced why. The built quality simply isn’t as good as on other boats. In some places, the hull was so thin that you could see light coming thru. The Beneteau we had was without the backstay, which is bad for the mast. Things got worn out quickly. Beneteau is not something that will last long.
That was a very useful walk-through. All the important points were covered. Whilst she would not be a contender for me, I can see that she is a solid and comfortable vessel.
Glad it helped with your decision
Thanks for making a great video! My husband and I looked at several Elan impressions over last summer and we'll probably choose it if we ever do a long term cruising again in a few years. They look like such great boats! Well researched and lucky you got an owner's version.
We have an Amel Maramu 46 from 1981 and the list of boatwork we had to do on it is EXTENSIVE.my husband has buyers regret every time a production boat passes us by 🤣but the Amel is really robust and we'll feel safe crossing oceans in it.
Happy sailing in Croatia or wherever you are this summer!
Thanks for reaching out. We are a big fan of Amels. One of our sailing instructors has been sailing one extensively (most likely the same era as yours). We had the privilege to sail with him and fell in love.
Thanks for the informative video. I agree that Elan is a step above the other brands. A couple of notes I'd add. First, I'm not sure all the brands use vacuum infusion, and if they do, they are not all using cored hulls above the waterline. FWIW, a cored hull is stronger and stiffer than a solid hull, but conservative design applies solid glass below the waterline to avoid water intrusion into the core--in other words, I think the Elan hull is a significant step above the competition. The B/D is higher on the Elan BECAUSE the draft is lower. Lower draft with a heavier keel results in similar stability. Finally, the solid rudder post the full length of the rudder is stronger for the rudder, but the possible downside is it creates a long lever for the hull to be damaged if the rudder strikes something. Even skeg hung rudders have similar issues--the recent Moody that was attacked by orcas had a very strong skeg-hung rudder and when the orcas struck the rudder, it holed the hull and they were lucky not to sink. All to say, they are all trade offs and there are some pretty good reasons everyone, including brands like Oyster, have moved away from skegs.
Thank you for the insight. There was another comment relative to grid being part of the vacuum infusion vs being glued to the hull.
Yes, that is another big advantage. Grids/liners glued to the hull--basically with a paste like Bondo--is not very strong. That's what Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Hanse, and Bavaria all do. Over time after exposure to rough weather/grounding, the grid can break free and the hull becomes flexible. Costs a fortune to fix--many times the boat is a Total write off.
Elan has some stringers vacuum infused with the hull, plus the grid appears to be a combination of bonding + glassed in. Elan also has a wider hull to deck joint that is bolted and bonded together, where some of the mass produced boats only bond the hull to deck joint. This all means a stronger, stiffer hull--i.e. a better boat.@@SeaBeeSailing
Now I want to buy an Elan!
A video recording "at the right time in the right place". Thanks to SEA BEE Sailing for a trustworthy presentation of the Elan I 45 (of course with a comparison of similar sailboats). We have been looking for a suitable sailboat for some time. But thanks to you and your videos, I recently confirmed the purchase of a used Elan Impression 45 (2017)... The boat is amazing 🥰.
I wish you successful sailing and many positive adventures at sea!
That puts a smile on my face. Glad to hear we can be help for those on a similar journey. Congrats with your purchase! Hope our paths cross.
G R E A T seeing you guys back.
Good to be back
Loved seeing all the details of SeaBee!! Your choice makes so much sense Kivanc…..and yes please..add the additional hand bar…one each side….ASAP… just sayn … love you guys 💖💙
Right back at you! Say hi to your lovely family
Many thanks for your info
My pleasure!
You really found a rare one with the two cabin layout. I’d love to come across one as we’re close to moving up to something in this size range. I just missed out on a nice 434 in the Caribbean. These seem to be holding their value well. Thanks for sharing this information. Great boat 👍
Best of luck to you. Let me know if we can be more help in your search.
@@SeaBeeSailing thanks! I think we’ll do one more season in the Caribbean on our current boat and then begin searching in earnest. Let me know if you happen to come across any Elans with the large aft owner’s cabin. We’re totally open to buying in Europe. Hope you’re enjoying the Med 🤙!
Good review. Never thought of Elan! those tripping hazards could be mitigated with some yellow/green Fluro tape (not pretty but easy to see)
Nice review. I have a 2019 Impression 45. You mentioned ballast ratio but missed one other more important ratio. STIX 50. This is absolutely impressive for a production boat!!. Not a cruiser racer but not sure if I agree that it is not a performance cruiser. I find it quite fast. Either motoring (I have the 75hp upgraded engine) or sailing (I have in mast with battens so no loss of sail area). Floor levels? Very common on many deck/raised saloons, agree you get used to them from day one, agree you need to brief your guests. The only thing I don’t really like (though I got used to it) is the bridge deck that you need to climb every time you need to go through the companionway. I understand this “step” is needed for the single aft cabin version so there’s enough headroom in front of the bed but for the twin aft cabin version, like mine, is completely useless. Very seaworthy boat and gives you a feeling of security even in rough seas.
I did consider adding stix and avs comparisons however could not find a reliable source as most manufacturers do not officially advertise these ratios. My findings were inconsistent- not just elan but all other contenders- so, in light of not giving false information, I intentionally left them out. Glad to meet other satisfied elan owners
The most important difference between Elan, Jeanneau, Beneteau and for shure Hanse and Bavaria, is the fact that Elan laminates the inner structure to the hull, while the others are glueing because glueing is less expensive. There are enough CZcams films about this problem. Being a former Elan and Beneteau dealer and owner of an Elan 434 I know what I am talking about.
Thank you for your input. I did not know that.
Do you know when they started with the cheaper technique? Because as far as I know early 2000s Jeanneau's still had proper laminated bulkheads.
I'm not talking about the bulkheads, but the floor-unit or the so-called "matrix". The matrix can be glued or laminated to the hull. This is the group which is giving strength to the hull in order to prevent torsion and delaminating in case of a grounding. If it is glued, it will break out easily giving great damages, if it is laminated, it will stand great forces. There are massive differences in quality. Standard mass-produced yachts like Bavaria, Beneteau, Hanse or Jeanneau are nowhere near as strong as a Sirius boat e.g. The problem: on a boat show you will not see this and a dealer is not going to tell you. @@BilldalSWE
@@andreleers9457 I was refering to the matrix as well. Only "modern" production boats have glued in floor beams/matrix. My 2001 Sun Odyssey 37 and I assume other boats of the same time has a laminated / glassed matrix which is why I asked if you knew when they changed it...
I cannot answer this question since I had the dealership after 2001. The only yard from which I know that they laminate the matrix fix with the outer hull from the very beginning is Elan, because they used to build performance boats until they implemented the Impression series, and even their matrixes are laminated with the hull. Sirius goes even further, but that's another story. @@BilldalSWE
Just subscribed to your channel so a little late to your comments section, but I've looked at a few 434's and quite like them for the reasons you state for your 45. One point I would mention though, when talking about skeg hung rudders etc, I noticed she has a sail drive. This is not something I would be too happy with because it's a big hole in the boat if you have any issues with it. Aside from that I reckon she's a good boat
I believe early 434 (2006-2007) came with a shaft and stuffing box.
Great information.
Thanks for watching!
Well done. Elan should make you a Brand Ambassador. Fair and honest review. Good luck with your sailing endeavors.
They are good at making boats but not at marketing.
It would have been great to get more info about the actual sailing capabilities.
Nothing would make me happier to be able to sail all the sailboats mentioned in this episode and do a side-by-side comp.
So, I agree with everything that you stated, but- I wish you had mentioned the overall design of Rob Humpfries. I absolutely adore every bluewater design he's ever penned, and Oyster uses his designs exclusively. The boat is so very stable in heavy airs, is rock solid with big waves and you know when everything is tuned together because she just flies. Also noted was no complaints about the fit & finish of the 'furniture' down below. The lack of issues is a double check mark for the positive in my eyes. I've seen too many doors off of Beneteaus & Jeanneaus to count, but- have noted almost no issues with the Elans. OK, I don't love some of the port lights & their odd shapes, but- lighter interiors and especially an owner's version interior makes for an extremely function vessel. Thank you for taking the time to mansplain your process- I'm sure that all will enjoy the nod to the old ways, while stepping into the future! Congrats! She's a beauty!
You are correct about, I neglected to mention the naval architect behind it. I drool every time I see an oyster. I do believe elan used better hardware in doors, latches etc but there are areas like stanchion bases they cut corners. I forgot to point those out in the video
@@SeaBeeSailing Elan has changed the sanction bases from the 2019 model Impression 45 onwards.
Rob Humphrey is Elan designer since 1990s : czcams.com/video/q5p_d8O21os/video.html
@@philipposchr4049 I did not know that
Hi we have a 2008 Beneteau oceanis 46, which is a similar layout to your beautiful Elan, I think you chose very well
Love the older design of Beneteau. First gen Oceanis and even older 423, 473 are great boats
Nice tour I think one issue I’d have is the power plant Volvo
Bad choice in my opinion-
The only issue we had with our Volvo Penta so far is the MDI box failure, which was replaced by Volvo at no cost under a company recall. I understand Elan moved from Volvo to Yanmar power plant on their recent models.
Informative and well done walk around although you left out Dufour amongst the crowd of production boats😂. We have a 2021 Dufour 470 and looked at all the main production boats and the Elan but ultimately chose the Dufour. I would agree with Sea Bee on many of his points and it just comes down to what is right for the buyer…we love our 470 even with her “con’s”. All have compromises and pro’s and con’s.
I was on a 470 couple weeks ago at a boat show in Istanbul. I believe the production quality of your boat is much better than brand new boats from big 4 which were also present at the show.
@@SeaBeeSailing the compromises in the name of volume below are pretty apparent in all the current offerings (including Dufour); Elan, Dehler and Swan (and the traditional BW boats) are trying to find a better balance I think. I was surprised that the cost of the Elan was not more competitive as a production boat as we were seriously looking at the GT-5 in 2019.
Beautiful boat. Only thing I worry about the wife falling on the stairs while cooking underway.
If the companion way steps is a concern, look into Beneteau sense. I believe there is a 50 and a smaller one- perhaps a 44. Beneteau ceased production in 2018 (rather short lived model) but the boat has a cult following. Best of luck!
Thanks for this. I've just looked them up, and the new 45.1 kooks to have things I am looking for, the Shoal Draft model is my needed 1.6 mtr or 5ft 3" and the galley has been moved forward, now starting to dig deeper. Other comments may be added later. Many thanks again. Bob. 👍
eta. I'm disabled and the Cimpanionway steps are too many and too steep for me to use safely and speedily when needed, plus the below decks layout of Galley option etc, isn't suitable for me. A great shame as there is much that I like, that I could have gone for if much younger and still physically able bodied. There is a lot about these Boats to like imho, but as every boat is a Compromise, for me they are compromises I won't be able to live with as live aboard. It's definitely a Boat Builder to keep an eye on. Thanks Again. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍🙂
Thanks for reaching out Bob. Given your situation, you may want to look into a model called Sense by Beneteau. It was not a successful model as Beneteau ceased the production after only a few years of production but managed to create a cult following. The companionway is almost flat with only 3-4 steps and the interior and exterior offer ample amount of room. They offered a larger 50" model and a smaller 40-45 (I cannot remember).
@@SeaBeeSailing
Thanks so much for the recommendation, .I'll go and check it out now. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍🙂
I’ve never seen an Elan hero 7n til a couple of months ago I went to Croatia. Plenty of Impressions over there.. On the outside they look awesome, and apparently they do as well on the on the inside.. is the structural grid fiberglassed to the hull, or just glued like Beneteaus?
Looking at the manufacturing process the ribs and hull are sole piece during vacuum infusion. Which leads me to the conclusion of the grid being structurally part of the solid glass hull during production and not something attached later on.
Totally OK with you. We have been onboard a E6 last summer in Croatia, they are great, and definitely a serious option for a buyer. It is somewhat more recent than the Impression 45. Disagree about the transom. We like a lot the wide bathing door, at anchorage and at the marina. At sea it is closed. Also the wider transom boat are healing less than skinier ones. I mean for the same wind at the same angle. So for me they are more comfortable. I also have the impression that a recent hull surfs better on waves than an older design. I compared the fitting with a Beneteau of the same size, On the Beneteau every cables, ropes, bolts and so on was sligtly smaller, they cut every corners they can. For me it is OK on Med cruising, but NOT OK for Atlantic crossing and high seas.
Thank you for your input
Handrails all around great safety idea.
radar you say keeps hitting sail. Why not move radar to aft of boat no need to be up mask,
Overall, very nice boat
Thank you. We are actually considering getting a 90% jib instead of the 110 we have. That should eliminate the chafing.
@Sea Bee Sailing Hello. Could you tell me the approximate price of the new Elan 45?
It depends on many factors... condition, age, location, options
Thanks for the review. Excellent yacht and with just a few improvements, like the added exterior handhold, Love the boat. Although I do not like storing the dinghy on deck and pulling a dinghy in and out of the garage is usually a pain.
I could not agree more. Actually, launching the dinghy is part of the problem. Installing the outboard proves to be more of a difficult task.
Would you take this boat around the world?
It seems to have the fuel and water
You said it has a decent keel, and storage.
So is she a take you anywhere boat?( Obviously not high latitudes)
I would. I believe most mainstream production boats are capable of crossing oceans. Compared to its peers, Impression 45 offers a more suitable package (hull design, keel etc) for long passages and living aboard.
thought there'd be a grill at the back
There is one. It attaches to the swimming platform when open
Nice , Pity no shaft drive , Tail bins & No Yamaha .
Not liking the interior color, is that assimilated wood?
Is it the case that you yourself happen to have an Elan boat?
Pls refer to the intro.
Idea good, Dufour is missed, infos inside are weak.
Check out Kraken yachts.
I have seen few but not familiar with them. Will check it out
And Pegasus...
@@SeaBeeSailing
Where is th9s nice harbor?
I believe you are referring to Slano, Croatia
Is this a PR video clip for Elan ? ... 🙂 ... or just because you own one ?
[edit: pretty crappy one sided comparison ...]
💐 ƤＲＯ𝓂Ｏ𝕤ᗰ
I've spoken with my friend who works in a charter company and he told me that all Elans look very pretty from the outside, but the interior design and overall build quality are significantly worse than a same size Beneteau or Bavaria.
Sailors tend to have different opinions - otherwise it would be boring
I still don't understand these stupid discussions going around the Web, who decides if a boat can be considered bluewater or not?
Expensive or cheaper?
Good or Bad?
Typology and specifications?
Why doesn't a specific body establish it according to strict criteria to which all manufacturers must adhere?
Who controls who and how?
According to what regulation?
And recognised by whom?
Do we still want to believe in the fairytale of the CE mark?
Which, by the way, I see it written everywhere even on my underpants!
So I don't think we need to be a naval architect to understand a very simple, if not obvious, concept that regardless of the builder, whether it is Beneteau or any other, there is a legislative and regulatory VOID in this sector that concerns not only the construction and design, choice of the materials and their origin, the absolute lack of supervision by any recognised third independent body from the design, the construction, up to the delivery of this type of boats, the lack of training and professional courses for the staff employed by these yards,
which would make the most stubborn navigator pale.
The truth is that these shipyards do what they want and their constructions have one and only one denominator the profit!
@@KoDeMondo It's not the aviation industry. Regulations like you suggest, ad layers or bureaucratic tape and stifle innovation.
If you don't like the way a company operates/constructs, don't buy their products.
This is how you say you have never been on an Elan yacht, without saying you've never been on an Elan yacht. Dude - ask any owner, or just go aboard an Elan and compare to any serial producer, french or german, or any. You will see Elans are MILES ahead of them.
opinion and conjecture.
If you wanted a well built boat why not get an X Yacht, Rassy or Nordship? Too expensive? Yes, but it's no good pretending there's anything special about an Elan. Keelbolts out of sight under a tank would be a non-starter for me. Elans are just like other production boats - built to a budget.
Thank you for your input