My OrangeStorm Giga is Dead
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2024
- My OrangeStorm Giga won't be Orange for long.
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The OrangeStorm is a proof that not everything works if you scale it up. There are parts of the machine that should be redesigned. The printbed is one of the problematic parts. Layer adhesion is not uniform enough. Might be due to heat differences and expansion. Just a little draft can be enough. The motors of the movement system are not strong or durable enough for the large movements.
If you paying that much for a printer I don’t want to deal with adjustment knobs on build plate to level the bed.
Their Neptune 4 pro suffered from the EXACT SAME ISSUES. This isn't a "scaling up isn't good", this is "crap products and QA will make a horrible printer at EVERY size" thing.
not to mention at that size ridgitity becomes a really tricky beast. if you floor/surface isn't flat it'll show on the build plate as itll conform to the shape of the floor.
IMO its proof that scaling successfully can't be at a consumer hobby price point. All of those decisions were made to make the machine affordable but failed to recognize that the limitations added cost to failure points, and so not a viable experience. I'd image the lesson other brands will take away is that its not worth the damage to the brand to scale to this point at this price point. There are industrial grade machines at this size that work well, but cost 10x the price. There's a reason for that. I can only hope that these MFG find a middle ground where hobbyist can advance toward professional grade equipment without the massive financial leap that exists today. The right space IMO is where Joel suggests. Putting some more time and money to push it to the price and capabilities that make take the next step forward. Affordable, but certainly more expensive than the price point of the giga and less than the industrial grade machines.
Those belts look way too small to be accelerating and decelerating that size print head at any reasonable speed. They should have used lead screws or at least a 30mm steel core belt and some servos.
Its just a extra large piece of chineseium as it ships.
My suggestion is to take this "opportunity" to install a pellet extruder on the Elegoo Storm. Because this printer really begs for a pellet extruder. Using filament material is way too expensive to be practical for large-scale objects.
EDIT: a minimum nozzle diameter of 1 mm might compensate for the lack of mechanical precision and problematic layer adhesion.
i second the pellet experiment for the giant broken printer
I third it! 😃
I'm not sure if the gantry can support this, cause pellet extruders are in a different weight class than normal-sized hot ends. At least those that would suit a printer this size.
@@TheCreat - Experimentation will settle this. Greenboy3D has a pellet extruder that seems to work well without being too complex and heavy.
When the printers increase in size, we have to expect lower speeds, cause the inertia of the gantry itself will limit printing speed.
I would love to see the pellet extruder mounted!
Wish I had time and resources for such a project myself😅
title should have been "my Orangestorm is GIGA dead"
Calling it an "OrangeStorm" is tempting fate it becomes a "BrownStorm".
Joel, PLEASE DO NOT let Elegoo off the hook with this.
Their Neptune 4 Pro had all the same issues you have had, and after a YEAR, they couldn't fix their issues.
This sounds a lot like letting Elegoo from repeatedly sending out half baked hardware, and partially completed software. At some point, we have to hold crappy manufacturers accountable. But it seems the only time people hold them accountable is if it catches fire (see Bambu A1).
At what point do we tell people NOT to use Elegoo? How bad does your experience have to be to NOT recommend a COMPANY? Because I honestly thought the last Giga video would have been enough........
Skill issue, been using their printers hassle free for over a year
@622.by.sunrise8 Ah, so both the previous poster and Joel are newbs who require special skills to make these particular 3D printers work, got it.
@@LongDono Yep, especially Joel
@@622.by.sunrise8 it's weird for someone who has no skills to say 'skill issue'
The Neptune 4 had issues? Since when? I have put 100's of hours into mine and never had any issues with the machine. Leveling is fine, extruder is fine. Flow, Retraction, Cooling. all fine
It may not be a specific Giga problem, but on the other hand... it is. Support being way too slow is a Giga problem and part of the experience. The center should not be an issue for adhesion, if it is, it's a Giga issue. Good to showcase and super nice to see it being modded (which still is a thing and why I stopped buying cheaper printers). :) I did learn a ton doing that, but at a point, you also see the huge amount of waste it produces when needed straight from the factory.
Thats a "it was made in china" problem. Just think of how much fuel is being wasted sending parts of these to the reviewers who cant get them working out of the box.
Looks like another pile of leftover last gen parts masquerading as a consumer machine.
This is where I give Prusa a lot of credit. My 5 head XL was not perfect when I first got it last fall, but Prusa has made so many improvements, in the software and hard ware that it is now almost perfect.
So, I think you should make the arm into a giant “High Five" camera mount. Scan your hand and cut a hole in the middle for the camera. High five!
And add sensors so we can measure high fives given to it?
only if the hand can be moved up and down the final brace, so you can change the high five you're hitting when ya feel like it......
Yes!
This is why I cancelled my OSG preorder after my initial excitement cooled off. I knew I wouldn’t have the energy to fight through these issues.
Printer should have been named Elegoo LemonStorm Giga.
At the end of the day, the Giga is still a consumer grade printer in a giant frame.
I'm curious if a single, gigantic PEI sheet would help, assuming you could find one or have one made.
Even with that, you have that one spot where the four plates join, still the possibility of movement after heating.
Joel, Ivan Miranda is you guy. he has build several printers larger than the orange Giga....
@IvanMiranda is a legend, indeed.
Dr Flo has a large pellet extruder 3d printer
Aw man! Im so sorry about the OrangeStorm not working out well for you and giving so much trouble. That vase turned out epic though! I was going to suggest putting the giant lamp on the wall near the orange storm to give that part of your shop a jumbo feel... Maybe itll still be possible once you turn it into the blue storm though? :D
That articulated arm is epic. Big high five hand? Live Air cam? Taco holder?
Your patience with the Orange Storm is great. It is really frustrating. I am looking forward to the Blue Storm. Voron style?
Looking forward to seeing how you improve the bed!
I printed that lamp arm when my printer was working, used it on my computer for a desk lamp and also printed a pink one for the partner as a bed lamp, sadly I think the pla dried out and cracked eventually and literally the only parts I have left are the lamp mount and shade now, all the other parts have broken or cracked. The main issue I ended up having was separation on the threaded parts of the arms due to the stresses under tension (also prob didn't reinforce the prints enough with extra wall thickness) (RIP giga, can't wait to see how you improve it)
Had a similar issue on my a1 mini only a month after it arrived... ate pretty much the whole hot end assembly. waited for parts 2-3 times at a week each because more stuff kept failing. So I feel your pain. Hang in there!
Def looking forward to content on upgrading the Giga!
The OrangeStorm Giga was an audacious idea and kudos to Elegoo for trying something kinda crazy. I think it could have worked better if there was a single very flat bed that was designed not to flex when thermal cycled with a much larger nozzle and probably reverting to 3 mm filament - in other words, truly scaled up rather than scaling the overall dimensions but having the same low flow rate extruder and needing four heated beds. If I wanted to print four 300 mm x 300 mm objects, I'd use a 300 mm class printer.
I love the Blue Storm idea! And I'll see what I can cook up for your giant lamp arm thing. It looks epic
Its so funny i printed that Manta the same day you posted your pick and I too used High Five Blue!! Lol i cant wait see Bluestorm Giggity giggity!😂😂
I think the bed needs to be a single piece of cast aluminum and a 800mm square Keenovo silicone heater and single 800mm flex sheet. Yes it’ll cost half of what the machine costs but at this scale even a $3000 printer that’s reliable is a good deal.
The larger issue with a single heater that large, is the power draw when heating. You would have to vastly underrate the heating element in order to use this on a 15 amp circuit.
Not entirely sure I'm with you
Aluminium, absolutely. Single piece maybe but not necessarily. But definitely don't need a single Heater pad
I learned back over 10 years ago on my Replicator Dual that i still have and still works to lock the screws in place for the bed. On my current printer with "only" i have a 300mm squared sized print area and every printer in between I've put an extra nut on the bed screws to lock the bed screw in place. Since, never have i had a print failure due to bed shift. I also get the bed about 2-3mm from fully seated to make the bed as firm as possible while giving just enough space to adjust.
I also printed (in ABS filament) center spacers shafts to go in-between the spring/screw to prevent the bed from carrying vibrations and shift the bed that way. This was before people started using solid mounts.. Funny thing, I've been to lazy to put that on my newest printer because it's a bed dropper.. but totally made sense on the bed slinger i had before
haven't you tried or looked for a FR4/G10 sheet of the size of the printing surface, I think it would be a way to avoid having those problems in the joints, and you would have a flatter surface, Greetings from Mexico !!!!!
Have you ever tried Primafix glue? I've only compared it against hairspray & glue-stick and it's insane how well it tacks the prints to the printbed at high temperature & it would be really interesting to see it compared to the nano coating etc
Fun seeing the guys behind the camera!
Great video and awesome looking articulated LED lamp mount.
And thanks to the breakdown of the OrangeStorm, people now have plenty of time for the competion... 😜
(also looking forward to your BlueStorm)
I feel your pain.
The blob of death claimed my Ender 3 V3 SE thermistor. Now to figure out how to fix that, I am a user, not a tinkerer.
it's simple a wire with 2 leads. Buy the replacement part, disassemble the hotend until you see the thermistor screw, and then replace the Thermistor. Be careful not to screw the holding screw in too tight or you'll crush the wires. If you're nervous, watch some videos. If it's the heater cartridge, same deal just w/ the set screw instead.
@@miniknights I BELIEVE IN YOU GERHARD GROBLER
@@miniknights .I have had to replace a thermistor once before. But the new ones are stuck inside. I cannot get it pushed out. The wires broke off right against the themistor. it is a bar as long as the heater cartridge. It is stuck inside.
@@MrGerhardGrobler if it's a bar as long as the heating block, that would be the heater cartridge, not the Thermistor. For that, find the small black hex screw on the heating block and unscrew it a little bit. That should free the cylinder.
If it's a weirdly long Thermistor held in by a screw on the side, then you might need some tweezers. But I'm pretty sure you're talking about the heating cartridge.
I had a blob of death on my QIDI X-Plus 3, but I caught it early enough before it got to the wires.
Gotta love seeing Elegoo reply to your last video on the giga saying that they wanted you to keep troubleshooting and now they’re suspiciously quiet.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for a new hot end and extruder. Go all out, make it a tool changer, enclose it and add a chamber heater.
Great to see the giant bracket back and in use. I had such high hopes for the Giga. Thanks for testing so I didn't have to.
Ya i had a bad 'blob of death' on my MK3S last week. With a heat gun I got it off the hot end without breaking wires, or breaking the heat break (done that before). But my aim was bad, I also melted part of the extruder assembly, and the frame of my MMU2S. Rebuilding now, upgraded to MK3S+ and MMU3. ... any more cost and effort and it would make more sense to trash it and get a Bambulab A1.
The Z offset not saving is an Elegoo problem, one that they, seemingly always have with their first firmware releases. As the Neptune 4's on release had the very same issue, which is something that stems from making your own version of Klipper instead of using a known, working, tried and true, version.
I now have two Neptune 4 Max printers and absolutely love them, just don't love the Fluidd interface (will be changing that to Mainsail) nor the "elegoo version" of Klipper either (open Neptune eventually).
i remember printing that articulated light arm years ago for a way to adjust my webcams close to my printers! maybe someone can design a lens camera mount for you! Maybe I should reprint this knowing what i know know and make it stronger as my original print didn't work well because of weight and center of gravity issues
I REALLY hope I get a good one. I think I am going to try a Voron inspired hotend/extruder.. with a tap setup & rigid bed.
I’ve used 3DLaq for adhesion. It’s quite expensive but it doesn’t take much at all and I find one coating can last a dozen or more print jobs. (Although maybe on the Giga with its serious adhesion issues you’d need to recoat at least the center before every print.) Worth trying, at temperature it sticks to PLA like … glue, I guess 😁 When it cools down, prints remove ok - they don’t just fall off, but with a flex bed, they can be pried off with fingers pretty easily.
Love the extra large nuts and bolts! I am going to try printing those next on my XL.
YES!
I would be so pissed if I bought that and that happened.
You should print and build an upscaled lego light saber for that lamp arm.
I just finished designing a part that would replace the "lamp_holder.stl" and would interface with the Lego hand from the Lego light saber model files scaled up 400%. Of course it would involve you building a lego light saber at 400% scale, but who wouldn't want to work on THAT project?
THIS IS A GOOD IDEA
I was feeling the same on the orange storm. It is a great project with some min9r fixable flaws. The hot end is an easy one and going to a single large plate bed with an edi current ABL would be perfect way around some of the limitations you have hit.
ive been spraying my pei build plates with a single coat of hair spray when i get them. no problems since with adhesion.
Should print the wall-mounted support vertically so that the layers are not stacked in the same direction as the pulling force
You sir are a master of your craft and very eloquently spoken, it honestly takes me a second to catch some of the undertone that you're putting forth but that's just a neurodivergent thing with social cues. I love there filament and I'm sure they're resin printers are amazing but I would honestly be pretty down on myself as an engineer of one of these printers if I watch this video and understood the full gravity of it
Love the huge prints brother. A man after my own heart! 🤣 Sorry about the Giga, that sucks. I know if anybody can make it better it is you!💯
Do you have a way you recycle the waste prints ? like injection molding or such ?
One idea for the end is (and I may revisit with more) another printer? Like a small one that can make project themed miniatures for every stream, or a projector
Interested to see what you do with it, hopefully it works out better
watched the Live Stream of the Kobra 3 Combo, will you be doing a Unboxing soon ? Also, Where can I find the STL of that stingray ? I've looked everywhere and cant find the same one.
Thanks !
Stingray is from STLFlix! It’s on their site and on Cults3d. For the Kobra 3, I tried to show it on screen it’s out of the box and printing!
I'm excited to see the Bluestorm! Seems like it's currently an extra large printer with build quality of an Ender, needing all of these mods to make it actually consistent. I don't even think Enders are this inconsistent any more.This seems like it would be the perfect candidate for one of those Beacon Scanners after you rigid mount, rather than a 4,000 point bed mesh. Maybe a high flow Revo with a 1.4 Nozzle?
Moving beds on large printers are very problematic due to the starting and stopping of a large print. If you have a thick walled large item that has 15kg of plastic, that's 33lbs you are jerking back and forth. Large closed loop steppers would be a must.
The OrangeStorm also suffers from a serious lack of torque and belt tension issues. I've built 1m^3 machines before. Outfit it with some ClearPath NEMA 23 Servo Steppers and 15mm belts will help, along with properly support bearings.
I wonder if by putting a small cube-shaped void in the center of the model, so that it wouldn't print within those 4 inter-corners of the build plate, if you could avoid having the same issue. Just a small enough void that it could then bridge over and continue the print upward and give you a small little cube mounting point that you could use to mount it either on a stand or the wall
Retro fitting the “printer” is such a cool idea. Not sure it’s a good idea but it could be. Try to make it into what it should have been or could be. Buy the best parts, hotend, buildplate/s, fans and nozzle. This could be pretty cool content. Live the videos Joel!
seems like we need whambamsystems to make a one piece bed plate
The downside is it would cost almost as much as the printer. Their magnetic plates are great, but my Rat Rig 500 was over $300.
I was thinking you could put a helping hand from a soldering station on the end., there are a number of 3D printable ones to online.
I like the idea of a giant foam finger on the end of that, pointing at you, the viewer... OR one of those big bubble wide angle mirrors that they have in parking lots or the back of stores. One of those big big ball mirrors. Yeah. Maybe make it look like an eyeball. Or you could make a fake neon light (LEDs).
Blob of Death!
In our 3d printing farm that's roughly a weekly occurence. Some printers take those like champ, ie. Creality K1 Max has been incredibly easy to deal with those.
Other printers you need to swap the whole toolhead (Prusa) completely when that happens.
These days i sometimes just buy an extra toolhead with the machine from get-go, depending on the cost.
Elegoo N4Max toolhead for example is incredibly cost-effective. SV07+ Not bad neither.
nobody gonna talk about how creality basically stopped talking about the CR30 (and updating it) while Ms. Wu remains a silenced by her government
Creality was done with and so seperated from Wu before she got her 'wings clipped'. Right up to the gov doing the clipping she was working with belt printers and helping move ideas forward.
Change nozzle to bondtech cht vulcano 1.8mm
(Maybe pellet extruder )
Put one big piece of aluminium on the bed (or screws under beds)
Anything around to make it at least 70% enclosed maybe made from PP corrugated sheet (its like cardboard...but from plastic)
Better extruder (you dont need printing speed with big nozzle....use something strong with maybe gear reduction
At least 80w heating element for extruder
Blue Storm? No, No, Joel, you are making something more powerful than just a storm... A Blue Tempest.
Just imagine all the naked statues you could print on that giant printer
Hey @3d printing nerd aka Joel , I have the creality K-1 max that the same thing happened with the hot end how it wicked it up and I can’t even get to the screws to unscrew the hot end to replace whatever I need. Do you have any suggestions? I got the big blob off, but all the screw holes are completely sealed.
I did the same thing loooong ago on a printer, the only way I found to clean was heat, try to heat it as much as you can and with some metal tool try and scrape it off.
@@lilietto1 did that last night got it off finally but the screws were destroyed
@@lilietto1 ordered new hot end screws. Hopefully we’ll get it all back together and running.
@@TheArcadeguy Happy for you, and something always get destroyed in the process, it's an hassle but if it's any consolation as joel said, it's a relatively common problem.
I have some very specific ideas on how to make improvements in all the categories! :)
I wiped out 3 hot ends in the first month due to the blob of death on my N4MAX. I have since started my first layer at .35mm, even if printing the rest at .18mm layers. This gives a bigger margin of error for the first layer and since doing this I've not had another blob of death and I get great bed adhesion.
Put some 3D flowers in vase?😊 washers between wall mount and turning piece, maybe printed bearings? Thrust and ball both different places of course. End being giant 3D movable hand?
Where did the cr-30 wall go? Were there other videos beyond that one in august of 2021?
I vote for studio light diffuser attached to the end of the print - the umbrella looking thing to attach to it. This way it will both look and behave like a lamp.
If not, than giant transparent umbrella, with spiderweb painted on and little 3d printed spider put inside of it. You can move it between the shots for giggles!
I'm an arachnophobe, btw, and I think if you print the spider with bright color, it will be okay.
Try getting a giant g10 sheet as a build plate that should fix the issue of bed adhesion and the gabs in the build plate
I never thought about getting a CR-30, but now that I see it can print lumber, hmm... ;)
also wish I had room for those giant prints. I'm running out of space for all the little trinkets that I print.
Here's to a high five blue giga. It will be a glorious machine.
Incredibly obvious what needs to be printed for the end ... A giant floating pcbway logo!
One of my personal favorite ways to make 'Vase Mode' prints stronger is using an 'Over-Extruded Vase Mode' that the RepRack creators suggest for some of their parts. Using a 0.6mm nozzle, set layer height to 0.4mm, and all line widths to 0.95mm. Just slow your speeds down to compensate for the increased amount of filament being pushed through. I'd imagine using a 0.8mm nozzle with a 0.5mm layer height and 1.2mm line width would be the best way to increase strength.
I've actually had great results using a 0.6mm nozzle using 1.2 extrusion width and 0.32 layer height. (Prusa MK4 with an ObXidian nozzle.) As long as your volumetric flow limit is set correctly, it should automatically compensate.
#teambluestorm! I'm all about that idea! Look forward to seeing what you do. Sounds like you're going to have to get some custom fabrication going. These things looked like a giga-headache from the beginning. I really hope backers get a decent product in the end.
I'd put a steel plate between the plastic and bolts holding it to the wall. Give those bolts more surface area to hold that thing up...
Brilliant video Joel - I'm not going to comment much on My Giga, but having just gotten it working thanks to Jessy. I got through a full roll of filament before I realised the run-out sensor failed and the belt for the right side Y axis, had come off. yep.... just fell off! WHYYYYYYYYY!
It might be possible to get a flat milled chunk of aluminum for the print bed... the question then becomes, how much are you willing to pay for that, and can you get that heated up _evenly?_
Or, can a modular PCB print bed from the XL or possibly a bunch of MK2 or MK3 printers work here?
We're going see cast iron beds with milled top surfaces, like skillets, heated with gas.... "to print with abs, turn on medium-high heat for 5 minutes prior to start printing" xD
From what ive seen The blob of death is a elegoo problem after all the problems with the + and max thats all you see on the forums. i never had problems cleaning the blob off a ender
how do you deal with the humidity in such a large building and exposed filaments?
If you make close the printer for tempeature better and another bed ?
So revo? And Bedwise a Giant Aluminium Plate? With then a POI sheet on top?
I like how Elegoo decided to not put a sensor for whenever something goes wrong, on a machine thats ment for print times of multiple days.
Good idea on modding the Orange Storm. I dunno if there is an option beyond 3mm filament but this could be a good industrial printer rather than just a large core xy.
Oh I have some ideas.
In my experience. When you scale up stuff by double, the problems goes up cube.
This is like a scaled up Tronxy X5SA, and they were a complete basket case of a machine, until I upgraded mine to a VzBoT3D-Vz-330. Chuck it in a dumpster (or make it into a dumpster), life is too short to waste on unfinished untested toy design junk, especially if the manufacturer doesn't even acknowledge you debugging the machine out of your natural kindness.
The VCore4 500mm cube is the big boi Im excited about.
Again I have to say, a pei bed cover sheet to cover all four bed sections may cure a lot of problems on this machine.
Wow! This is the biggest version of my model so far! I'm curious to see what will be installed on the end.
Maybe too big of a project for your Orange/BlueStorm, but it might be interesting to see someone build up a huge build-plate similar to the tiled XL bed. The individual board tiles are available from Prusa (though a bit pricy at $22.49USD a pop without any intelligent controller or thermistors or wiring, etc). And you'd need to source a spring-steel sheet and coat it yourself. But it would make for an interesting project. Might be able to get away with an array of smaller stick-on silicon heater pads stuck to the bottom of a sheet of aluminum plate?
Looking forward to the Blue Storm!
The large screw/bolt needs printed horizontally, with a small section of the bottom of its length flattened for better printing. (Maybe even print the bolt with threads on each end horizontally with a separate bolt head on both ends.)
I've never understood WHY print beds are adjustable: Shouldn't their entire surface be flat on the frame?
It used to be the only way to level against the nozzle - but now with super accurate probes, seems like rigid mounting should be the default
Time to print some flowers for the vase
I had the same problems with my Neptune 4 plus. Eventually I convinced elegoo to just send me a new machine and that works great
I was really excited about this printer now I see so many videos of it just not working I would be nervous to buy it, Also its crazy the Kickstarter says msrp of 2500 when you go to there website I don't know if they just put it in there as a place holder but it says $9999.99 granted it says sold out but I thought thought this printer was supposed to be an inexpensive large scale printer for $2500 not 10k. That's a hefty price tag for something I see tons of people having problems with on youtube.
also add closed loop steppers to stop layers shifting
I notice that your table that the printer is on has wheels… would that not introduce a pretty serious stability problem, that would lead to layer shift?
Life size Michael Myer’s attached at his back, to the articulating arm. Halloween all year round. 👀
Can someone please explain to me why a _[checks notes]_ two-and-a-half *thousand* dollar printer doesn’t have crash detection? That seems like a big oversight for a machine that’s already got adhesion issues.
"Thoughts and Prayers" LOL
Hi Joel, you can make bolt stronger, just make hole inside and put metallic rod or plastic tube tube inside ...
Ooh good idea!
A light up Tardis hanging off the of that giant arm might be cool. You could even have a hole in the bottom of the Tardis so it works as a posable lamp. High-5!
LIGHT UP TARDIS YESSSSSS
Made a voron 2.4 with a 3ft square build volume. If you want big go that route