Value is a very personal concept. After trying the mouse, would I pay the 149.99 price tag to buy one new? I probably would. Don’t get this twisted though. I’d loved to have seen this release at a cheaper price tag, especially, and obviously, for my EU family. I am not saying the value is there for everyone, don’t get it twisted! I enjoyed my performance on it, and based on my in game performance and my level of enjoyment using it….. I do believe I myself would pull the trigger on a purchase. I myself will probably buy an ec3-cw when it’s available. I know that may or may not be a popular decision, that’s just me keeping it real. I agree with all your concerns. Trust me lol.
Even though the difference is neglible in-game, I think the multiple 3395 mouse drops from last year having the price tag of less than $100 had some influence on the bad reception for the price on this mouse. Also doesn't help that Vaxee is implenting 3395's on their upcoming wireless lineup with a cheaper price tag but with Zowie's build quality.
Honestly never had a problem with any of the wireless performance of the mice I own. G pro x, lamzu Atlantis, pulsar x2, dav3. I don't really see the receiver as a good justification for $150. I understand a mouse being super expensive if they are using the latest tech. It's pretty normal that the latest tech has a "tax" on it for it being new. But that tax is a lot less easier to accept when it's older hardware.
I agree with this. I've owned all of the mice you've mentioned and many others and have never once had an issue with wireless before. Plus the GPX is the most used pro mouse for so many professional gamers it seems like a non issue.
@@notblazedfordays9536 nah i noticed past a certain point your mouse becomes unstable usually below the 64ish gram mark. Especially if the shape of the mouse isnt optimal for you. Though id consider 78 grams a bit to heavy unless the weight balancing is really good but for how small the ec-2 is, it’s probably way to heavy) Id say the sweet spot is 68 grams or around there. If its a shape that really suits you though, maybe the lighter the better.
I think i would prefer my razer viper v2 pro to be 70+ grams as someone who plays cs go and valorant. And no razer viper ultimate is not an option for me cuz clicks on the right side
I would have picked this up, if light mice haven’t been a thing for a long time now. I still have a wired EC2 upstairs in my office. But I can’t game with it, my wrist is really sensitive to the increased weight. I have used the G-Pro in the past and I get noticeble wrist strain if i play with it for more then an hour. I will consider buying this in a few years to replace my office mice though, it looks really shiny. But like you said, I’m in the EU, and it’s really not worth the insane cost.
What's funny about the EU pricing is that it makes the GPX seem like a budget option (because the mouse can often be purchased for around 100 US in EU) and Razer feel like a mid range product.
i actually think this will work better for me than the DAv3 and i like the DAv3, i like the roundedness of it the EC2 and i want something a little heavier and dense actually. nice review as always
Thanks Fresh as always! I agree, a solid wireless implementation is more important than "better specs". I think that's why I've always found logi, zowie, razer, Vaxee, and EGG to outperform everything else. Something about it... They just do the little things right. Price is high, but I'm OK with it if everything is solid. I might wait for EC3 wireless, S2, and za-13 👍.
It being 200€ on maxgaming in europe is just insane. I've never had a zowie mouse so I would love to test one of them but I can't justify the 200€ price when I just paid only 55€ for the xlite v2 on sale.
@@FreshReviewsYT No idea. Usually peripheral prices might be like 10€ more expensive here than the US, but for some reason zowie has decided to make it a lot more expensive.
@@DanKurtt Yeah no. That's just what they want you to think. If that would be the case, all 150US mice would cost 200 over here... and they don't. My guess is they're charging more cos they can... most online media which determines the popularity of peripherals is US based, so screwing over EU customers isn't that detrimental for their sales I assume.
Maybe Zowie could just sell the mouse without the receiver for cheaper, don't think everyone necessarily has issues with wifi interference. No idea what they could do for EU prices. Weight could have been better but at the same time, not everyone wants their mice to be sub 70g. Knowing Zowie, they probably listened more to CS pros using their peripherals who seem to prefer that 70-80g range. Having an enhanced wifi receiver is also a sign they're thinking more about LAN environments. There are so many zowie-inspired shapes now, most people could probably find an alternative from another vendor. Still waiting for that LA-1 review, and the Pulsar X2-H could be an interesting alternative to the ZA13C.
I really like the looks and feel of the EC and the zowie brand as a whole just because of all the great gaming memories 😅 Still Have a wired one in my closet but Im far into wireless to use it. The price is about 220usd though here in Sweden so thats a bit steep. Whats your opinion about this shape vs the Outset? Been waiting for a wireless one forever and at this pricepoint i guess i could wait a little longer and stick with the model D and Xlite.
I think if you already own an xlite it makes it very hard to recommend the ec2 at $220. I actually would advise against it, as much as I actually do like it.
@@FreshReviewsYT Yeah at this pricepoint its pretty much already a no go! The problem is the horrible build-quality of the Xlite and i actually find it a bit too light. I do also wish the pulsar Xlite was shorter and wider in the back.. But How would you rank the Outset shape compared to a ec shape?
Hi fresh very nice review !! I am a ec2 lover and i will 100% buy the mouse but i am interested wich mouse would you choose in terms of raw ingame performance ??? The Dav3 or the EC2 wireless ??? 🤔
It’s going to boil down to your shape preference. They’re both great. I could not tell you there is any leap in performance on either that you’ll notice on a human level. If you like heavier mice ec2. If you like lighter. Dave
Hey man, would you still main the Vaxee xe in the new wireless version that was just announced? Been watching your reviews since almost the beginning, still great to this day! Keep the good job!
I know this question has nothing to do with this video but i am looking for an audio interface and cannot make a decision. I really value your opinion. Just bought the hook x after watching your review about them. My question… which one do you prefer… the „Ifi Zen Dac V2“ or the „Audient Evo 4“ Thanks in advance for your help :)
kinda feel bad for Zowie with the Dav3 being a goat last year and now with Atlantis and Pulsar new ergo mice coming this year, its getting much more competitive and they're coming out the gate with bangers providing they keep their QC issues to a minimum
I don’t feel bad for them, it takes them way too long to update their products and they literally don’t listen to their customers. Razer is super active on mouse review on Reddit and has listened to customer feed back to develop their new mice.
@@Bushido_24 if 4K was so mind blowing, we’d see pros using 8K wired mice over wireless mice. We don’t. GOOD shapes and GOOD wireless implementation is what is important. The 4K dongle also does not come with razer products. It’s an add on.
I just feel like this wouldve been a banger if it came out 2 years ago... They are simply a bit too late with this one. Having no ptfe, no optical switches (which is subjective), being on the heavy side and of course the 3370 for 195 euros.. (for me in europe at least). Just makes it not rlly worth it imo. However it being zowie its still gonna sell though. I dont doubt that.
whats your hand size ? i'm at a razer v3 pro at the moment and want to buy the ec2 or ec1 but not sure wich one fits best for me (my hand size = 20 x 11)
Do the side buttons have the problem where they go to far into the shell to the point where your finger feels the border of the shell like the og one did?
So I definitely enjoy the shape of the ec2 more. I like the weight of the Dave. It’s a really tough call. Personally, I think I was playing better on the ec2 which is most important
Put a finger on the wheel and move the mouse on your pad to left and right without touching the mouse with hand, only finger on wheel, you gonna feel it. The scroll is loose bro.
Hey bro been using the olinas since you replied to one of my comments recommending them but i feel like they’re not quite it for me on apex I don’t mind them on Valorant tho I was gonna go for the raptgos until I saw there price in aud $475 anything you can recommend that really gets the job done for big open maps like apex (Ps. it’s Pulsexcv from twitch reminding you I don’t think you’re mid) 😂😂
I don’t quite remember your twitch or the comment on here recommending the olina, which I usually don’t recommend for gaming, but I would check out the Dunu kima.
@@FreshReviewsYT that’s okay man it was when you were streaming Fortnite playing on oce servers and you recommended them to me quite a while ago I’m gonna pick up the kimas have a great day or night depending on your part of the world!
After just selling off every mouse over 70grams I owned, the weight is an absolute deal breaker for me and it's just not good enough when we have other ergo shapes like the DAv3 that weigh so much less.
@@a6893_ I think this is a very subjective thing but I find my lamzu atlantis the best I've ever played and it's 55grams. I do spend a lot of time in aim trainers though so I probably have decent mouse control.
@@protestthisaccount I think our body is adaptive. Unless it is too heavy it should work. CS GO pros had insane aim with 80+gm mouse. Weight was not a problem for them. What changed? Zowie ec2 90gm Shroud in his prime used ≈87gm g302 Ok here's a question. How much is too light? OR At what point weight reduction gives negligible benifit? Shape and sensor matter more impactful then weight IMO
@@a6893_ Here is a scientific fact for you. Less weight means less inertia. Less inertia means easier to start moving, stop, change directions rapidly. So 0 grams is the best. Ofc its not possible but for you to understand.
@@FreshReviewsYT yeah, really liked the za 13 and was hoping for a wireless version but if it comes at 200 euros it just isn’t worth it at all in 2023.
The only issue I've had with my mice over the years has nothing to do with the sensors. My two most recent mice that have used the Kailh 8.0s have had double clicking issues (m42w and x2 mini) so moving forward I'm gonna try to avoid those switches. I've also had issues with coating, such as my GPX wearing down on the sides quite quickly, but again moving forward I'll just get grips to avoid it entirely. I don't think the sensor plays as big of a role as a lot of people like to make it out to be.
At the core of it, I don’t think anyone really expected the mouse to be less than solid no matter the switches, skates and sensor. But it’s 100% too late. I get the price point but again it’s too late. It’s about what you get for the money and there’s really no advantage to buying this mouse over others out there. And tbh, I def get a sense there is some inherent bias among mice enthusiasts with Zowie. I do hear more excuses for it than other mice…
I can assure you the Zowie fans will buy out the entire stock 💯 guaranteed. I’m one of them 😂. I own Viper V2 Pro, DAV, Logitech Superlight and go back to the Zowie EC line so much I put the other mice in a closet. 😂
@@TheMostSavageOfAllGeese 100% agree. I think Zowie fans like yourself will be completely happy with these and it def seems this was the target audience. My opinion is more from the average modern mouse enthusiast.
I would've bought this thing some years ago when I was looking for a wireless mouse but nowadays I'm totally happy with a Pulsar Xlite that's cheaper...
I think we will see more mice from ASUS. I also think pulsar mice will be very well received. I think we will see the potential for 8K hz wireless at the very end of the year
i'm not gonna show you a lot of broll of the mouse *cuts right into broll of the mouse* LOLLLL i thoughht that was pretty fuunny. i kinda hard agree tho at this point 149.99 is kinda a standard thats been set by logitech/razer as the flagships, zowie could have been the trojan horse and made it a lower price,but the quality is definitely there to represent the price tag, if thats something youre capable of shelling out the money for.
Thank you for the review. Actually I’m kinda disappointed about this. Shape is King obviously, EC2 Enjoyer will probably buy it anyway. Let’s take the debate between 3370 vs. 3395 to another level. The Key is the implementation and also the MCU. There are obviously some mice that aren’t performing extremely good with a 3395. And there are probably some 3370 or 3360 (Zaunkönig) that performed better. So I definitely understand that Argument. However the new CW Series will absolutely have a premium price tag. In my opinion when the customer needs to pay a premium price then this product should be also premium. Some Latency tests will show, how good it will work. I like this docking station but it would have been better that they treat this docking station like Razers 4k dongle. Being optional and reduce the price is in my opinion the better way. The weight is ok, I didn’t expected something Superlight weight. It kinda also goes hand in hand with premium price = premium specs. So I’m a bit disappointed. I absolutely love the ZA 11 Shape (Underrated af) and I hope for some clones in the future because 200€ is too much for me personally with that specs but we’ll see.
$120 without the enhanced receiver would be a a nice move, but we know zowie and this is not gonna happen. And it is sad that zowie mice never get discount or sales, here in Brazil this will be way out of reach...
Esse mouse só vale a pena para pro player, o receptor grande deixa claro isso. Só acho zuado esse preço todo não vir com feet extras e grip. De resto, duvido muito q lamzu e pulsar consigam bater de frente no quesito profissional do bagulho, agr no quesito para nós, jogadores casuais, vale mt mais a pena
@@massao4273 2023 a pulsar, lamzu e outras marcas vão vir fortes, xlite v3 esports edition vai ter 4000hz wireless e 8000hz wired...a vaxee vai lançar os mouses dela wireless que são excelentes com 3395 por $40 a menos. A zowie perdeu a mão total infelizmente, na maxgaming tá 200 euros o mouse...
Sorry Fresh but i disagree about the price being ok at 150. When Viper gpx etc came out at 150, they had bleeding edge tech. This doesn't and i don't think that build quality and reputation costs 50 $. This think costs freaking 200€ in Europe! Without shipping costs! For comparison, Lamzu has great build quality too and top of the line tech. They sell at 100! Vaxee has the same reputation if not better as Zowie.. They will sell their mouse at 140€! That's 60 less! It's crazy. Does the mouse feel ok when you play, being a 3370 75 gram mouse? Sure! That's not an accomplishment and neither should cost literally double the € from the completion! Just my thoughts
Oh we are on the same page. Don’t get my words twisted lol. Would I love to see this mouse priced at $100? Of course. But the mouse with the inclusion of the enhanced receiver FOR ME, I would pay the 149.99. I didn’t say the value was amazing. I just mean I would personally have ended up buying it after trying it in person.
Zowie are like the Nokia of mice. People keep praising them and buying them based on what they were "back in the day". The only thing they still have a small edge on is built quality and literally nothing more. In Europe the mouse costs 200EUR. To put that price in context for 200 EUR you can buy 2x GPXs. Or you can get a Deathadder Pro v3 and a 4k polling dongle, or a whopping 4 Glorious Model D wirelesses. Now I know that Glorious don't have the best built quality but come on, pretty sure 4 Model D's will outlast the 1 Zowie. 150$ is borderline ridiculous but barely passable for the US market but 200EUR is beyond mental especially from Zowie that are infamous for never having sales.
@@FreshReviewsYThey, would you recommend Aqua Control Zero or the ESports Tiger if I’m looking for something like Xtrfy GP4 (colored), but just a tad faster?
@@FreshReviewsYT It keeps me awake at night whether I should just get the Vaxee XE wireless now when it releases or wait for the FK1+ maybe coming later in the year! 21*12 hand life 🤦♂
Can I move your video to China's Bilibili website I feel that the video you made has some characteristics and some views are the same as those in China, for example, the price hahahaha xdddd
At the end of it all, when the dust settles after this launch - if it goes poorly we can only hope they learn and strive to be better. If the launch goes great, it will show whether people truly are now full fledged into lighter mice or not
so old sensor, weight is too high, those mousefeet no comment, a receiver that do nothing important, a shape that is no longer goated. All that for 199 euros and still 159dollars is too much.
You really dont see a difference to why the gpx, vioer v2/ultimate, dav3, etc CAN be justified being 150 dollars (they are going for 200 euros btw lol) in comparison to this mouse? This mouse has specs that the superlight almost 3 years later still outclasses. This mouse should have been released 3 years ago. If it were to be released today it should be the same price as the mice, released 3 years ago are right now (viper ultimate is like 60 bucks nowadays and the superlight easily found for 100-120)
Who said I don’t see a difference? I simply said that the performance of the mouse with the receiver and dock charging and performance makes it worth 149$ to me. Meaning I’m someone that WOULD pay $149. Whether it’s worth it to you is up to you.
@@FreshReviewsYT the only real problem is that I wanted to try this mouse so bad, but my main mouse 50g and going to 75 is quite a lot. I'm loving this weight and unless they lower this mouse for 60g I don't think I'll try it. Same goes for vaxee
Appreciate you actually talking about the mouse feeling in-game and not just slandering the price like every other review, as if the rest of the market isn't charging the same if not marginally less.
I think something to consider about this mouse (and zowie in general) is that zowie makes products primarily for tournament play. They don't really focus on having the latest tech, or following trends. Their main focus is on consistency, and reliability, which are arguably more important at high level tournaments. This doesn't really justify the price, but when you consider that it's not really meant for general consumers it makes a little more sense.
In contrast, Vaxee released their new wireless mouse, they also really care about realibility and consistency, but they have the latest hardware in their mice, and the price is lower than Zowie.
All brands (Logitech, Razer, Vaxee, Xtrify) focus on tournament play. So that comment is strange. As far as reliability, all pros have a backup mouse at tournaments so that comment also makes no sense. You claim “releasing products not meant for general consumers” - that’s not true either. If they we’re only focusing on pros- they would sell / give these “only to pros.” Nothing against this mouse, but defending it in such a way is very strange behavior.
I think the price US isnt even that bad. Zowie has always been on the "more expensive" side. But the european price of 189€ is just ridiculous. I really think that no one would complain about their release, if they wouldn't have put the price tag that high
1. Using a cheaper 3700 and charging money like it was a 3995 is just not okay. 2. A lower weight wil always be better as it wil be closer to your every day hand movement, even if its a minimal advantage. After all there is a reason mice get lighter, if not why not advocate for a brick which wil eleminate most QC issues? The fact you mention lower weight in other reviews as a positive ( example your modd gpx) makes your take here not feel like youre geniue - nostalgia perhaps?
I didn’t say the weight was better than lower weight mice. I said I didn’t mind it. If the mouse was ten grams lighter, would I find it more comfortable? Probably, but I’d probably have the same competitive performance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3370 sensor that has better implementation than most 3395 mice. In fact, isn’t that what you would rather have if someone told you the 3370 mouse had better motion latency? I think we need to stop chasing the lowest weight possible and focus on things that matter more, like mice not exploding in our hands. I find any mouse within a reasonable bracket of weight - 50g-80g (plus or minus 2g) is perfectly acceptable, sometimes feeling too heavy with bad weight balance or too light depending on shape.
@@FreshReviewsYT didnt say 3995 was worse or not. But more that they charged the same money for an older version, which is eventually gonna be updated and superior performance. Maybe its cause im from europe i see it more as a problem. My comment did come out a bit more grumpy than intended. Anyway im a big fan, but I do hope you eventually film in front of a desk looking into the camera. That way it feels more personal and that you are actually talking to me. But i can understand it can be frightening putting youself out there.
@@FreshReviewsYT But...have you tried the mouse that explode? (Hati HSK Pro 4k)...I think it is an innovative product with 29 grams, wireless and with 4k polling. Unfortunatly the bad batch of batteries has been a serious problem.
This is why I stopped browsing the mousereview subreddit. An echo chamber of people calling the mouse trash, just because it’s using an “older” flawless sensor and the price. It’s not for everyone, and it’s not meant for everyone.
I don't mind that they took their time. Everything in gaming is rushed now; From graphics cards to the games themselves. If the mouse is Zowie quality, then it was worth the wait. There have been many tweaks to this design, but I think they captured lightning in a bottle with the EC. They nailed the perfect balance of aim and comfort in their first go at it, imho. 15 years later and it's still a top choice for high-level fps play.
Wonder if you have used Intellimouse pro or 3.0? It is larger, but I find it significantly more comfortable and I perform better with both of them, despite the weight. I assume I'm the minority, considering that it isn't being cloned to the extent EC is.
@@madhalf7059 intellimouse too big for me. I used an ie1.1 at that time. Then Zowie io, then EC2, then g403 back to EC. Zowie's curves are just smoother and more exaggerated and help my finger roll around when doing inner hand motions without losing my base grip.
@@FriendNotFoeBand thanks for replying. Got you, it's probably too big to be as popular then, although Deathadder seems to be doing okay and is of similar size. Funnily I found g403 to be too big for me, my hands aren't long and the hump made it hard to palm grip it :)
Value is a very personal concept. After trying the mouse, would I pay the 149.99 price tag to buy one new? I probably would. Don’t get this twisted though. I’d loved to have seen this release at a cheaper price tag, especially, and obviously, for my EU family. I am not saying the value is there for everyone, don’t get it twisted! I enjoyed my performance on it, and based on my in game performance and my level of enjoyment using it….. I do believe I myself would pull the trigger on a purchase. I myself will probably buy an ec3-cw when it’s available. I know that may or may not be a popular decision, that’s just me keeping it real. I agree with all your concerns. Trust me lol.
Even though the difference is neglible in-game, I think the multiple 3395 mouse drops from last year having the price tag of less than $100 had some influence on the bad reception for the price on this mouse. Also doesn't help that Vaxee is implenting 3395's on their upcoming wireless lineup with a cheaper price tag but with Zowie's build quality.
Totally agree. Only issue is the 3370 implementation here is better than most 3395 mice 😂
@@ACE112ACE112 if you write a good firmware even the 3360 can be better than the 3395.
In my opinion the price is the same, just that Zowie forces you to buy an additional charging station. They need to unbundle the station.
@@daniellozobia5386 Totally agree, if they had a version without the dock it would be more affordable.
You still can't get an XE wireless. Good luck trying to pick up a wireless NP01 if/when it launches.
Honestly never had a problem with any of the wireless performance of the mice I own. G pro x, lamzu Atlantis, pulsar x2, dav3. I don't really see the receiver as a good justification for $150.
I understand a mouse being super expensive if they are using the latest tech. It's pretty normal that the latest tech has a "tax" on it for it being new. But that tax is a lot less easier to accept when it's older hardware.
I agree with this. I've owned all of the mice you've mentioned and many others and have never once had an issue with wireless before. Plus the GPX is the most used pro mouse for so many professional gamers it seems like a non issue.
Agreed. That’s sort of where I was going with the review.
the weight is the dealbreaker for most modern mouse enthusiasts
zowie is late in the game that's for sure
I hate mice that weight less than 70 g
@@RadicalizedRadical that’s cuz you’re a gigachad and will crush anything lighter
@@notblazedfordays9536 nah i noticed past a certain point your mouse becomes unstable usually below the 64ish gram mark. Especially if the shape of the mouse isnt optimal for you. Though id consider 78 grams a bit to heavy unless the weight balancing is really good but for how small the ec-2 is, it’s probably way to heavy) Id say the sweet spot is 68 grams or around there. If its a shape that really suits you though, maybe the lighter the better.
I think i would prefer my razer viper v2 pro to be 70+ grams as someone who plays cs go and valorant. And no razer viper ultimate is not an option for me cuz clicks on the right side
@@WorldKeepsSpinnin what do you mean by it becomes unstable?
I would have picked this up, if light mice haven’t been a thing for a long time now. I still have a wired EC2 upstairs in my office. But I can’t game with it, my wrist is really sensitive to the increased weight. I have used the G-Pro in the past and I get noticeble wrist strain if i play with it for more then an hour. I will consider buying this in a few years to replace my office mice though, it looks really shiny. But like you said, I’m in the EU, and it’s really not worth the insane cost.
What's funny about the EU pricing is that it makes the GPX seem like a budget option (because the mouse can often be purchased for around 100 US in EU) and Razer feel like a mid range product.
Very true
I'm a crazy EC1 shape fanatic and after the Zowie EC-CW release, I said fuck it and hopped on the GPX for $115 in my city.
Best move ever.
@@farvezafridifaizurrahman6980 i think quite a few people holding out for the ec-w did. 😅 If true, would not be good for Zowie.
i actually think this will work better for me than the DAv3 and i like the DAv3, i like the roundedness of it the EC2 and i want something a little heavier and dense actually. nice review as always
Whatever about the price, sensor and receiver it's the weight that's going to be a No from. I'm looking at what Vaxee release
Thanks Fresh as always! I agree, a solid wireless implementation is more important than "better specs". I think that's why I've always found logi, zowie, razer, Vaxee, and EGG to outperform everything else. Something about it... They just do the little things right.
Price is high, but I'm OK with it if everything is solid. I might wait for EC3 wireless, S2, and za-13 👍.
It being 200€ on maxgaming in europe is just insane. I've never had a zowie mouse so I would love to test one of them but I can't justify the 200€ price when I just paid only 55€ for the xlite v2 on sale.
I’m really curious as to why EU prices are so expensive!!! Do you happen to have any idea why?
@@FreshReviewsYT No idea. Usually peripheral prices might be like 10€ more expensive here than the US, but for some reason zowie has decided to make it a lot more expensive.
@@FreshReviewsYT Taxes!
@@DanKurtt Yeah no. That's just what they want you to think. If that would be the case, all 150US mice would cost 200 over here... and they don't.
My guess is they're charging more cos they can... most online media which determines the popularity of peripherals is US based, so screwing over EU customers isn't that detrimental for their sales I assume.
As someone who lives in the US I would still recommend the Xlite v2 any day over this mouse in a heartbeat.
Maybe Zowie could just sell the mouse without the receiver for cheaper, don't think everyone necessarily has issues with wifi interference. No idea what they could do for EU prices.
Weight could have been better but at the same time, not everyone wants their mice to be sub 70g. Knowing Zowie, they probably listened more to CS pros using their peripherals who seem to prefer that 70-80g range. Having an enhanced wifi receiver is also a sign they're thinking more about LAN environments.
There are so many zowie-inspired shapes now, most people could probably find an alternative from another vendor. Still waiting for that LA-1 review, and the Pulsar X2-H could be an interesting alternative to the ZA13C.
I really like the looks and feel of the EC and the zowie brand as a whole just because of all the great gaming memories 😅 Still Have a wired one in my closet but Im far into wireless to use it. The price is about 220usd though here in Sweden so thats a bit steep. Whats your opinion about this shape vs the Outset? Been waiting for a wireless one forever and at this pricepoint i guess i could wait a little longer and stick with the model D and Xlite.
I think if you already own an xlite it makes it very hard to recommend the ec2 at $220. I actually would advise against it, as much as I actually do like it.
@@FreshReviewsYT Yeah at this pricepoint its pretty much already a no go! The problem is the horrible build-quality of the Xlite and i actually find it a bit too light. I do also wish the pulsar Xlite was shorter and wider in the back.. But How would you rank the Outset shape compared to a ec shape?
I was going to say I'll wait for it to go on sale but I dont think Ive ever seen a Zowie mouse go on sale.
Hi fresh very nice review !!
I am a ec2 lover and i will 100% buy the mouse but i am interested wich mouse would you choose in terms of raw ingame performance ???
The Dav3 or the EC2 wireless ??? 🤔
It’s going to boil down to your shape preference. They’re both great. I could not tell you there is any leap in performance on either that you’ll notice on a human level. If you like heavier mice ec2. If you like lighter. Dave
Hey man, would you still main the Vaxee xe in the new wireless version that was just announced? Been watching your reviews since almost the beginning, still great to this day! Keep the good job!
Absolutely! Can’t wait to try it
@@FreshReviewsYT will wait for your review then!
how does the weight balance feel compared to the EC2-C ? Also do the clicks feel the same ?
Just gonna wait for the Xlite V3. Will be trying 3 different versions. M/L/ES
Definitely excited for those
I know this question has nothing to do with this video but i am looking for an audio interface and cannot make a decision. I really value your opinion. Just bought the hook x after watching your review about them. My question… which one do you prefer… the „Ifi Zen Dac V2“ or the „Audient Evo 4“
Thanks in advance for your help :)
The dx3 pro + is really nice!
@@FreshReviewsYT well thank you I’ll go for it :)
just swapped back from the gpx2 over to the g703 lightspeed. Thinking about picking this up
Did you ever got the ec2? I own a gox and I'm thinking about going for the ec series
kinda feel bad for Zowie with the Dav3 being a goat last year and now with Atlantis and Pulsar new ergo mice coming this year, its getting much more competitive and they're coming out the gate with bangers providing they keep their QC issues to a minimum
I don’t feel bad for them, it takes them way too long to update their products and they literally don’t listen to their customers. Razer is super active on mouse review on Reddit and has listened to customer feed back to develop their new mice.
@@Woot30 razer stepped up to the plate big time
150$ its too much, and u are not even giving me a 4k dongle
@@Bushido_24 if 4K was so mind blowing, we’d see pros using 8K wired mice over wireless mice. We don’t. GOOD shapes and GOOD wireless implementation is what is important. The 4K dongle also does not come with razer products. It’s an add on.
I just feel like this wouldve been a banger if it came out 2 years ago... They are simply a bit too late with this one. Having no ptfe, no optical switches (which is subjective), being on the heavy side and of course the 3370 for 195 euros.. (for me in europe at least). Just makes it not rlly worth it imo. However it being zowie its still gonna sell though. I dont doubt that.
whats your hand size ? i'm at a razer v3 pro at the moment and want to buy the ec2 or ec1 but not sure wich one fits best for me (my hand size = 20 x 11)
will you do an aqua control zero review?
Are you gonna be doing a video on the Asus ROG Harpe Ace Aim Lab edition
Yep!!
What is the mousepad brand and model?
Do the side buttons have the problem where they go to far into the shell to the point where your finger feels the border of the shell like the og one did?
Negative
Have u heard of the new qkz hbb khan? Hope ure gonna cover it soon
I am!
Hmm. This or the DAV3 for you? Does this knock the DAV3 off it's perch
So I definitely enjoy the shape of the ec2 more. I like the weight of the Dave. It’s a really tough call. Personally, I think I was playing better on the ec2 which is most important
@@FreshReviewsYT thought it may have been a tough choice 🤣 I think I would prefer this coating over Razer also
Ur telling me zowie drop a wireless right after I BOUGHT A G PRO WIRELESS X
i need this in my life....the wired one sits on my desk 😭
this or the g pro x superlight 2?
With DAV3 on the market, I just don’t see a lot of reasons to get this mouse.
The dav3 makes it a harder sell as it’s a very competitive market. I do think it boils down to shape preferences though.
$220 is what I have to pay here in Norway, not worth it at all. Former Zowie fan here, lets go Vaxee.
$220!!!!!???? Holy !!!!
yeah...
@@FreshReviewsYT same for Swedes 2200sek
I love EC2 and 3. I just gotta learn to love the dav3 I guess…
What do you think about scroll rattling when you touch it to the left and right
I don’t have that issue so I’m not sure.
Put a finger on the wheel and move the mouse on your pad to left and right without touching the mouse with hand, only finger on wheel, you gonna feel it. The scroll is loose bro.
Hey bro been using the olinas since you replied to one of my comments recommending them but i feel like they’re not quite it for me on apex I don’t mind them on Valorant tho I was gonna go for the raptgos until I saw there price in aud $475 anything you can recommend that really gets the job done for big open maps like apex
(Ps. it’s Pulsexcv from twitch reminding you I don’t think you’re mid) 😂😂
I don’t quite remember your twitch or the comment on here recommending the olina, which I usually don’t recommend for gaming, but I would check out the Dunu kima.
@@FreshReviewsYT that’s okay man it was when you were streaming Fortnite playing on oce servers and you recommended them to me quite a while ago I’m gonna pick up the kimas have a great day or night depending on your part of the world!
@@PowZii oh hahahahaha. The oceanic servers were funny. Let me know how you like them
While 149.99 is still very expensive, it's the EU pricing that really creates a lot of issue. 190 eur!
was really excited for the za-13 wireless until i saw the EU price on this mouse...
Eu price is crazy
Have toy reviewed that mousemat yet?
After just selling off every mouse over 70grams I owned, the weight is an absolute deal breaker for me and it's just not good enough when we have other ergo shapes like the DAv3 that weigh so much less.
Yea. I figured it would be for many. The weight didn’t bother me but honestly if it was ten grams less I think it would feel better for sure.
Today after light exercise my 70gm mouse feels way too light. Any lighter and I won't be able to control it.
@@a6893_ I think this is a very subjective thing but I find my lamzu atlantis the best I've ever played and it's 55grams. I do spend a lot of time in aim trainers though so I probably have decent mouse control.
@@protestthisaccount I think our body is adaptive. Unless it is too heavy it should work.
CS GO pros had insane aim with 80+gm mouse. Weight was not a problem for them. What changed?
Zowie ec2 90gm
Shroud in his prime used ≈87gm g302
Ok here's a question.
How much is too light?
OR
At what point weight reduction gives negligible benifit?
Shape and sensor matter more impactful then weight IMO
@@a6893_ Here is a scientific fact for you. Less weight means less inertia. Less inertia means easier to start moving, stop, change directions rapidly. So 0 grams is the best. Ofc its not possible but for you to understand.
the thing that define this mouse is one word: late.
Let’s hope, at the very least, we see more sooner rather than later.
@@FreshReviewsYT yeah, really liked the za 13 and was hoping for a wireless version but if it comes at 200 euros it just isn’t worth it at all in 2023.
The only issue I've had with my mice over the years has nothing to do with the sensors. My two most recent mice that have used the Kailh 8.0s have had double clicking issues (m42w and x2 mini) so moving forward I'm gonna try to avoid those switches. I've also had issues with coating, such as my GPX wearing down on the sides quite quickly, but again moving forward I'll just get grips to avoid it entirely. I don't think the sensor plays as big of a role as a lot of people like to make it out to be.
Agreed
this is a great review fresh but mouse 4 be THOCKY??? bro put the gateron black inks in mouse 4 with tape mod and everything lmao
Hahahhaha
At the core of it, I don’t think anyone really expected the mouse to be less than solid no matter the switches, skates and sensor. But it’s 100% too late. I get the price point but again it’s too late. It’s about what you get for the money and there’s really no advantage to buying this mouse over others out there. And tbh, I def get a sense there is some inherent bias among mice enthusiasts with Zowie. I do hear more excuses for it than other mice…
I think it would have been a more compelling purchase if it released when the viper ultimate did.
I can assure you the Zowie fans will buy out the entire stock 💯 guaranteed. I’m one of them 😂. I own Viper V2 Pro, DAV, Logitech Superlight and go back to the Zowie EC line so much I put the other mice in a closet. 😂
@@TheMostSavageOfAllGeese 100% agree. I think Zowie fans like yourself will be completely happy with these and it def seems this was the target audience. My opinion is more from the average modern mouse enthusiast.
This mouse is made for the ec hardcore mains, cause thats their end game shape so unlucky for them cost is not competitive but it is what it is
I would've bought this thing some years ago when I was looking for a wireless mouse but nowadays I'm totally happy with a Pulsar Xlite that's cheaper...
Great alternative
I mean with the XM2we at only 80 USD this just seems like a crazy bad value.
ETA on other Zowie series going wireless?
Unfortunately I don’t have the info
i assume it's going to be over 200usd when it arrives in Indonesia yikes
Too much!
Do u have any mouse predictions in 2023?
I think we will see more mice from ASUS. I also think pulsar mice will be very well received. I think we will see the potential for 8K hz wireless at the very end of the year
@@FreshReviewsYT dang im hoping logitech release something cool???
By the way do u think razer and logitech will surprise us?
i'm not gonna show you a lot of broll of the mouse *cuts right into broll of the mouse* LOLLLL i thoughht that was pretty fuunny. i kinda hard agree tho at this point 149.99 is kinda a standard thats been set by logitech/razer as the flagships, zowie could have been the trojan horse and made it a lower price,but the quality is definitely there to represent the price tag, if thats something youre capable of shelling out the money for.
Hahaha had to hit them with the one clip
Whats your main mouse right now
Probably the pulsar Bruce Lee x2 or my custom gpx
Thank you for the review. Actually I’m kinda disappointed about this. Shape is King obviously, EC2 Enjoyer will probably buy it anyway. Let’s take the debate between 3370 vs. 3395 to another level. The Key is the implementation and also the MCU. There are obviously some mice that aren’t performing extremely good with a 3395. And there are probably some 3370 or 3360 (Zaunkönig) that performed better. So I definitely understand that Argument. However the new CW Series will absolutely have a premium price tag. In my opinion when the customer needs to pay a premium price then this product should be also premium. Some Latency tests will show, how good it will work. I like this docking station but it would have been better that they treat this docking station like Razers 4k dongle. Being optional and reduce the price is in my opinion the better way. The weight is ok, I didn’t expected something Superlight weight. It kinda also goes hand in hand with premium price = premium specs. So I’m a bit disappointed. I absolutely love the ZA 11 Shape (Underrated af) and I hope for some clones in the future because 200€ is too much for me personally with that specs but we’ll see.
Also damn why Teflon skates again
It would have been nice to have grips and ptfe skates in the box as an option
It sounds... interesting, maybe promising. Any word on when Zowie's other models will come out in a wireless format?
Good review! Keep it up.
I believe so but I’m not sure of the time frame
What is that mouse pad?
I believe it’s a new pad from esports tiger
$120 without the enhanced receiver would be a a nice move, but we know zowie and this is not gonna happen. And it is sad that zowie mice never get discount or sales, here in Brazil this will be way out of reach...
Esse mouse só vale a pena para pro player, o receptor grande deixa claro isso. Só acho zuado esse preço todo não vir com feet extras e grip. De resto, duvido muito q lamzu e pulsar consigam bater de frente no quesito profissional do bagulho, agr no quesito para nós, jogadores casuais, vale mt mais a pena
Aqui pra gente do Brasil, vamos ter q comprar no AliExpress (torcer pra lá ser mais barato)
@@massao4273 2023 a pulsar, lamzu e outras marcas vão vir fortes, xlite v3 esports edition vai ter 4000hz wireless e 8000hz wired...a vaxee vai lançar os mouses dela wireless que são excelentes com 3395 por $40 a menos. A zowie perdeu a mão total infelizmente, na maxgaming tá 200 euros o mouse...
@@massao4273 lamzu e pulsar já são melhor que a zowie no quesito geral, mais leve, mais barato, sensor mais moderno.
@@grayz1n agreed
Sorry Fresh but i disagree about the price being ok at 150. When Viper gpx etc came out at 150, they had bleeding edge tech. This doesn't and i don't think that build quality and reputation costs 50 $. This think costs freaking 200€ in Europe! Without shipping costs!
For comparison, Lamzu has great build quality too and top of the line tech. They sell at 100!
Vaxee has the same reputation if not better as Zowie.. They will sell their mouse at 140€! That's 60 less! It's crazy.
Does the mouse feel ok when you play, being a 3370 75 gram mouse? Sure! That's not an accomplishment and neither should cost literally double the € from the completion!
Just my thoughts
Oh we are on the same page. Don’t get my words twisted lol. Would I love to see this mouse priced at $100? Of course. But the mouse with the inclusion of the enhanced receiver FOR ME, I would pay the 149.99. I didn’t say the value was amazing. I just mean I would personally have ended up buying it after trying it in person.
What pad is that?
Esports tiger po ying mousepad...posted from their Twitter a few hrs ago
Zowie are like the Nokia of mice. People keep praising them and buying them based on what they were "back in the day". The only thing they still have a small edge on is built quality and literally nothing more. In Europe the mouse costs 200EUR. To put that price in context for 200 EUR you can buy 2x GPXs. Or you can get a Deathadder Pro v3 and a 4k polling dongle, or a whopping 4 Glorious Model D wirelesses. Now I know that Glorious don't have the best built quality but come on, pretty sure 4 Model D's will outlast the 1 Zowie. 150$ is borderline ridiculous but barely passable for the US market but 200EUR is beyond mental especially from Zowie that are infamous for never having sales.
the mouse is £170 in the uk which converts to around $207.... yeah no im good.
Yea I mention that in the video. Yikes!
@@FreshReviewsYT yeah i commented before watching the whole video. already knew it was a big hell nah from me 1 minute into it 😅
We need a wireless super light version of all Zowie mice.
And a wired superlight version of zowie mice
The mouse pad?!
Esports tiger new drop
I liked the mm712 minnie edition 😂
Nacho did it for my daughter. I love it!
@@FreshReviewsYT that is amazing! Nacho is a great guy and now i want your daughter review of the mouse 😊
Which mousepad is that one ?
Esports tiger!
@@FreshReviewsYThey, would you recommend Aqua Control Zero or the ESports Tiger if I’m looking for something like Xtrfy GP4 (colored), but just a tad faster?
price point is 190eur in eu
I’m so confused why the price is so high for EU. Although I’m obviously unfamiliar with what the cause might be
FK1+ wireless please! 🙏🙏
Bro yesssss
@@FreshReviewsYT It keeps me awake at night whether I should just get the Vaxee XE wireless now when it releases or wait for the FK1+ maybe coming later in the year! 21*12 hand life 🤦♂
UPUP
Can I move your video to China's Bilibili website I feel that the video you made has some characteristics and some views are the same as those in China, for example, the price hahahaha xdddd
Zowie just said "screw you" to all their loyal fans.
At the end of it all, when the dust settles after this launch - if it goes poorly we can only hope they learn and strive to be better. If the launch goes great, it will show whether people truly are now full fledged into lighter mice or not
I'll take the V3 over this mouse
LETS GOOO!!!!!! 🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
My dumbass though the video was buffering at 1:10 XD
Lol
so old sensor, weight is too high, those mousefeet no comment, a receiver that do nothing important, a shape that is no longer goated. All that for 199 euros and still 159dollars is too much.
zowie got lazy after being the top dog eSports equipment way back when
Sorry dawg, $150 for this particular mouse isn't gonna cut it for me.
No skin off my bones. I’m not the one selling the mouse 😂 no offense taken
This mouse is late... for 2 years.
Would have been a banger if it dropped when the viper ultimate did
You really dont see a difference to why the gpx, vioer v2/ultimate, dav3, etc CAN be justified being 150 dollars (they are going for 200 euros btw lol) in comparison to this mouse? This mouse has specs that the superlight almost 3 years later still outclasses. This mouse should have been released 3 years ago. If it were to be released today it should be the same price as the mice, released 3 years ago are right now (viper ultimate is like 60 bucks nowadays and the superlight easily found for 100-120)
Who said I don’t see a difference? I simply said that the performance of the mouse with the receiver and dock charging and performance makes it worth 149$ to me. Meaning I’m someone that WOULD pay $149. Whether it’s worth it to you is up to you.
In EU price is 210 euro lol
Big ouch
here in EU it's 200$...
Yea I mention that
@@FreshReviewsYT I know, I'm just putting emphasis on the fact that it's pretty stupid to buy one here
@@FreshReviewsYT the only real problem is that I wanted to try this mouse so bad, but my main mouse 50g and going to 75 is quite a lot. I'm loving this weight and unless they lower this mouse for 60g I don't think I'll try it. Same goes for vaxee
Appreciate you actually talking about the mouse feeling in-game and not just slandering the price like every other review, as if the rest of the market isn't charging the same if not marginally less.
Exactly. It’s like buying a car. One might be a newer model with a newer engine, but it doesn’t mean the engine is quite as good as the older model.
I think something to consider about this mouse (and zowie in general) is that zowie makes products primarily for tournament play. They don't really focus on having the latest tech, or following trends. Their main focus is on consistency, and reliability, which are arguably more important at high level tournaments. This doesn't really justify the price, but when you consider that it's not really meant for general consumers it makes a little more sense.
In contrast, Vaxee released their new wireless mouse, they also really care about realibility and consistency, but they have the latest hardware in their mice, and the price is lower than Zowie.
All brands (Logitech, Razer, Vaxee, Xtrify) focus on tournament play. So that comment is strange.
As far as reliability, all pros have a backup mouse at tournaments so that comment also makes no sense.
You claim “releasing products not meant for general consumers” - that’s not true either. If they we’re only focusing on pros- they would sell / give these “only to pros.”
Nothing against this mouse, but defending it in such a way is very strange behavior.
@@8020Alive agree
@@8020Alive definately true, because a lot of pro players are using Razer, Vaxee, and ofc Logitech and winning majors with it.
I think the price US isnt even that bad. Zowie has always been on the "more expensive" side. But the european price of 189€ is just ridiculous. I really think that no one would complain about their release, if they wouldn't have put the price tag that high
I pretty much agree. Of course I’d love to see even the USA price lower, but for me I know for a fact I would have purchased it on my own
1. Using a cheaper 3700 and charging money like it was a 3995 is just not okay.
2. A lower weight wil always be better as it wil be closer to your every day hand movement, even if its a minimal advantage. After all there is a reason mice get lighter, if not why not advocate for a brick which wil eleminate most QC issues?
The fact you mention lower weight in other reviews as a positive ( example your modd gpx) makes your take here not feel like youre geniue - nostalgia perhaps?
I didn’t say the weight was better than lower weight mice. I said I didn’t mind it. If the mouse was ten grams lighter, would I find it more comfortable? Probably, but I’d probably have the same competitive performance. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 3370 sensor that has better implementation than most 3395 mice. In fact, isn’t that what you would rather have if someone told you the 3370 mouse had better motion latency? I think we need to stop chasing the lowest weight possible and focus on things that matter more, like mice not exploding in our hands. I find any mouse within a reasonable bracket of weight - 50g-80g (plus or minus 2g) is perfectly acceptable, sometimes feeling too heavy with bad weight balance or too light depending on shape.
I find mice under 70g unusuable
@@RadicalizedRadical many people do!
@@FreshReviewsYT didnt say 3995 was worse or not. But more that they charged the same money for an older version, which is eventually gonna be updated and superior performance.
Maybe its cause im from europe i see it more as a problem. My comment did come out a bit more grumpy than intended.
Anyway im a big fan, but I do hope you eventually film in front of a desk looking into the camera. That way it feels more personal and that you are actually talking to me.
But i can understand it can be frightening putting youself out there.
@@FreshReviewsYT But...have you tried the mouse that explode? (Hati HSK Pro 4k)...I think it is an innovative product with 29 grams, wireless and with 4k polling. Unfortunatly the bad batch of batteries has been a serious problem.
please add subtittle to videos.
Not even decent PTFE feet and That price…. BS
I would have liked grips and ptfe skates included as an option in the box
This is why I stopped browsing the mousereview subreddit. An echo chamber of people calling the mouse trash, just because it’s using an “older” flawless sensor and the price. It’s not for everyone, and it’s not meant for everyone.
exactly
We too poor and C+ gamers for zowie
!!!!
Yes, the price is hefty.. But for end game main EC2 users its their glory! The only people who won't care for price is those people.
Exactly
I like
I don't mind that they took their time. Everything in gaming is rushed now; From graphics cards to the games themselves. If the mouse is Zowie quality, then it was worth the wait. There have been many tweaks to this design, but I think they captured lightning in a bottle with the EC. They nailed the perfect balance of aim and comfort in their first go at it, imho. 15 years later and it's still a top choice for high-level fps play.
Wonder if you have used Intellimouse pro or 3.0? It is larger, but I find it significantly more comfortable and I perform better with both of them, despite the weight. I assume I'm the minority, considering that it isn't being cloned to the extent EC is.
Good point
@@madhalf7059 intellimouse too big for me. I used an ie1.1 at that time. Then Zowie io, then EC2, then g403 back to EC. Zowie's curves are just smoother and more exaggerated and help my finger roll around when doing inner hand motions without losing my base grip.
@@FriendNotFoeBand thanks for replying. Got you, it's probably too big to be as popular then, although Deathadder seems to be doing okay and is of similar size. Funnily I found g403 to be too big for me, my hands aren't long and the hump made it hard to palm grip it :)
Only one
1st
First one
Everyone of these reviewers turn into yes men. 77grams ahh no problem. Then clean it up.
You don’t know me. I used the mouse willingly for this entire ranked season of apex, hitting masters. I could have picked up any other mouse. Thanks.