Extreme Exposure: Using the World's Darkest ND filter (24-Stop Formatt Hitech Firecrest Ultra ND7.2)
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2019
- * Note 21/2/19: Formatt Hitech would like to clarify that this filter is intended for photographing solar events, and not regular landscape pictures. For landscape photography they recommend a 16-stop filter at the darkest.
Note I'm aware that turning 'off' long exposure noise reduction will cut out the long processing times.
Does what it says on the box: 24 stops of neutral density in one filter. A very impressive feat of manufacturing, to be sure. Is it simply too much - and what's the image quality like afterwards? With thanks to Formatt Hitech for giving me use of this fascinating filter. www.formatt-hitech.com/
Music by Kevin Macleod (www.incompetech.com): 'Sidewalk Shade'; 'Opportunity Walks'
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Wow, finally I can do startrails with the sun.
lmfao
Lol I was gonna comment the same thing.
:)))
Suntrail
arent u a clever fella!
i want to see a photograph of a busy city center with all people erased by the super-long exposure
Alternate Title: Using the World's Most Expensive Lens Cap
I suppose Leica has more expensive ones.
I am still laughing! :)))))
Lool , the perfect answer
I achieved the same effect for only 50 cents by taping a black plastic bag over my lens. Works great for close-ups of nuclear explosions.
sounds like a blast
@@rebeccamoore4177 fuck both of you lmfao
Instructions unclear. Dick ended up in a fan.
Looool , you made my day
@@SMSBJM1981 It's hard to tell. All the pictures look a bit cold. Could be a WB issue. Or maybe it's just my eyes. Come to think of it, I don't remember my house being this dark all the time. I guess I should have worn sun glasses...
The “processing” part of the A7r II is due to the Long Exposure Noise Reduction. Essentially it exposes a dark frame with the same exposure time to map out the noise. Therefore taking twice as long as your initial exposure time.
You can disable it in settings to completely skip the “Processing” part and have an image immediately after exposure, but noise due to long exposure will be visible.
and actually you should turn it off...
@@HKG5sentsp why
@@7evive I'd like to know too...
Because it's ridiculous to collect the dark frame each time you shoot a 17 minute exposure.
@@mathtone hahahahah sounds like a good reason. But how can you handle all the noise with such long exposures? I've never got much into astrophotography and stuff, so I'd like to know a bit more about these things
Ever wanted to take a picture of *The sun* or a *Supernova *? Whell let me tell you about our new 24-Stop ND filter.
I tried to take a photo of a supernova with one of these but the exposure wasn't long enough.
I'd be tempted to combine a 'no filter' image and a 'with filter' image as layers in Photoshop, then mask in the best bits from each, to arrive at a blended composite with sharp, noise-free static parts and smooth blurry areas of motion.
That's a good idea, or you could use a high pass on the original and blend that in to just use it as a sharpening mask.
So... hold on, you got the world's darkest ND filter... and not tried it to photograph spot welding?
Screw four together and do a selfie challenge... See you next year 🤣
More like, in 314 quadrillion years. Stacking two of these already brings 1/8000 sec up to over 1100 years, adding two more would just be insane
Hi Chris, the reason why your picture took 17 minutes of 'processing' after the exposure is because you have Long Exposure NR set to On. This basically takes a dark frame of the same shutter speed but with the shutter closed, and then subtracts that dark frame from the original exposure to remove certain types of noise. It is certainly not necessary for the dark frame to be 17 minutes long, but I suppose the programmers were thinking of exposures approaching an hour long :)
I have an ND100000 (ND 5.2) filter that I got from Astro Hutech back in 2012 to photograph the Transit of Venus, and used it again for the partial phases of the 2017 total solar eclipse. It is quite effective for that purpose, but note that it NOT meant to visually observe the Sun with.
If you're doing landscape photography with an extremely dense filter, another aspect that may contribute to apparent softness is that you're not going to get sharp shadows, as the Sun moves considerably over the span of the long exposure times you need to capture an image.
Once again you demonstrate the hard work you put into your video's. What a good way to get rid of people in the nicest possible way.
I've used them for years they take your photography to the next level no lie!
very interested, I've been using the 16 stop Firecrest for years and simply love it
These are new to me...Ive been using the free ND I got with an M50. Ive been taking photos in Arizona my entire life and the desert is very bright...gunna look into all the different options and test some out. Good video very informative.
I suspect that taking pictures of the sun was the ONLY intended use for this filter. Even a 10 stop filter is usually plenty for long exposures in landscapes as most landscape photographers stop down the aperture anyway. Thanks for the review! It's always fun to learn about extreme equipment like this, even when it's largely impractical.
The look on those images is unique, in my opinion. Although using one of the other filters would be more practical, this one has bragging rights!
I have an ND1000 and still have to practice using it, can't imagine how difficult this one would be. Great images, great review!
4:10 As far as I know this has nothing to do with the Sony. A long exposure gets additional noise because there is an additional source of noise: dark current. In order to fix this, a camera needs to expose with the same exposure time again with the shutter closed and then this dark image, which consists of noise, is subtracted.
It's also optional on most cameras. You could also choose to take a black picture with identical settings later on and check for hot pixels yourself.
It is not really a fix, it is more like a workaround using statistics. Another option to reduce noise is lowering the temperature of the sensor.
only if you have that option on
Yeah actual 'random' noise should, depending on how the mechanics of the camera work, be reduced as it should all average out. But if there's 'static' noise that doesn't change it's gonna get more intense.
Useful tool, in my opinion. Tip: turn off Long Exposure Noise Reduction and a 17 minute exposure takes 17 minutes. I purchased a an ND 10000 (13 stop) filter and used it last week at Red Rock National Conservation area to remove the boatload of people from my landscape shots. Using your method of setting the exposure speed to 1/8000 second, then putting on the ND 10000 filter would have resulted in only 1 second of exposure. Instead I set ISO 100, I set the aperture to I wanted (f11) and adjusted shutter speed for the scene (1/100 second in my case). I could then multiply shutter speed by 2^13 (or 8,192) and have the appropriate exposure for the ND filter: 1/100 x 8192 = 83 seconds. That worked as most of the people were hikers and not standing around.
I have a 16 stop firecrest ND filter, It´s a must...now with 24 stop is insane amazing!!
Been ages since I tried slow shutter. The last time was on film camera back in 2001 for my photography month in art school. I have a variable ND and it goes almost black as you turn it, but I never thought of using it for bulb photography, although I did want to shoot Wong Kar Wai style slow shutter video, but never got to try it, but I guess now it's sparked some interest to try both. I really like how your images became dreamy because of the movements having been recorded in a still photo, its really surreal.
I agree with you that this is a very specific filter for very specific purposes...
I always watch your videos when I want to chill.
The reason your A7RII seems “slow” is because you have post noise reduction turned on. All Sony cameras (even DSLRs from the A-Mount day’s) have this. It always applies a 1 to 1 amount of reduction time after the exposure. So if you had a 30 second exposure you had to wait 30 seconds after the image was captured for the camera to do its noise reduction sequence before you could take another photo. It was one of the very reasons I jumped from Sony to Nikon.
Very good videos, the voice fits your tests. When I buy a new lens for my Nikon, I always watch your video, help me a lot, and comments under the film. This photo of the lighthouse is at Barry Port 7:35 . I live nearby in Llanelli and have been there many times. Good job.
It's one of the few things worth photographing in Burry Port hehe ;-)
Hi Chris, thanks for the review :)
There is an option to turn off the processing after long exposure. Setting -> Camera Icon -> Tab Number 6 -> Long Exposure NR (turn off this).
The camera is taking a dark frame to help reduce noise, probably don't need to do so in most cases.
WOW!
Yeah, it's definitely made for very special circumstances. I was wondering if one could get shots of the sun (safely) with it, and you answered my question.
I don't like the lack of sharpness, but like you said, it could be some noise from the extreme long exposure. I'm not sure if there's a consumer camera body that can actually take high quality shots at such extreme lengths of time.
Thanks for another good review.
Ooh, Cenarth Falls, took a good few pictures there in my time :)
more reviews on Filters please! thank you very much!
Ah, I think I've done enough now hehe
Very interesting. You could probably try using even longer exposure times and get some interesting effects (for example with the receding tide).
I'm curious how such long exposures would create interesting photos in the urban setting any chance to we can see more of that Christopher?
I talk about that a little in my Photo101 video about ND filters
Nickname: Legaly blind.
The use for this filter for landscape photography would be to get the skies to blend just as the water does.
Are you using long exposure noise reduction? It takes double the time as it leaves the sensor active to detect hot zones but honestly I don't think it does enough to justify the time it takes
it would be great if you can do an image quality comparison video of one image shot with this filter vs multiple stacked images shot with a 5-stop/10-stop nd filter
Why? This one is useless. The 10-stoppers are marginally useless once you are over misty seas and waterfalls. .
Randall Stewart and a cigaret lighter is useless under water. Your point?
"This black hole of all ND filters" hahaha
greetings from Masan, Christopher.
Chris, do you know if the other filters from that manufacturer come with the really nice case? I’m after a few filters (no need for this crazy one though) and really like the idea of a nice card case for them so they aren’t damaged. Cheers
I /think/ the larger ones do, but the smaller ones come with a normal plastic case (see my group test of 10-stop ND filters). Can't say for sure, though.
An alternative use might be to put the filter on a light source, to get extremely dim lighting which could eliminate any optical reduction in sharpness by doing a long exposure that way.
Which ND calculator do you use? Enjoyed seeing the photos using the filter. Glad you posted a video on something other than the Canon RP. Nice to have variety.
how about an exposure in the smallest aperture, at the lowest base iso, with that nd filter
Next level!!
I tried long exposure with nd8 and the image still appears over exposed with the settings of 5 seconds open shutter, aperture 22 and iso 100 the image is just bright white, I don't know if I need to change the lens or just need a darker nd filter..
Laughed out loud at the "close-up of nuclear explosions" line. That caught me off guard and cracked me up!
How do you keep your camera and lenses so clean looking? I got some glass wipes out today and polished everything for ages but I still see smears and dust on the lenses and the camera itself just looks grubby.
*7:15* Christopher showed a stock photo of an fireball from a massive explosion... *MEGUMIN APPROVES!!!*
The quite affordable Hoya ND100000 ND filter creates 16 2⁄3 stops reduction and is ideal for solar eclipses. The format hi-tech with 24 stops reduction ND filter must be exceptional for partial or full solar eclipses. However I don't know if it blocks only the visible spectrum of light and permits the UV light. So even with such a very dark filter is better to avoid viewing the sun through pentaprism.
With 24 stops every person or vehicle is vanished from squares or roads.
Wow! That's a real "big stopper".
Hi Chris, I hear from your reviews that you buy lots of lenses on eBay, I have been looking to get the Canon 55-250mm IS STM version. Second hand versions tend to sell for £100 - £120, but I’ve found a few listings for new lenses priced at £108 - £114... is this too good to be true? Are there counterfeit copies out there, or do people not tend to ‘clone’ lenses and it’s safe to buy the cheap versions from Switzerland (I’m almost certain it will be shipped from China)!
I’m just not sure if I would be getting a ‘copy’ or a genuine lens so thought I would ask what your experience was with eBay lanes. Thanks
that result is prety amazin
With this nd filter, what would the exposure time be in order to photograph an atomic explosion? I'm, uh, asking for a friend.
Umm, how many atomic bomb 💣 do your friend have for sale? Actually, asking for my friend.
Hey Chris The reason it took 17 minutes to processes is because your camera took another equal exposure with the shutter closed to then use it to map out the hot pixels. To fix this turn off long exposure noise reduction. Though you will have to remove hot pixels in post. For exposures under a minute on my a6300 I don't even bother with long exposure noise reduction, just a waist of battery IMO.
The "processing" system is the long exposure noise reduction. You can turn it off, but even the newest cameras don't have a faster system as it's basically exposing the sensor without opening the shutter to get a map of the noise, then it removes that from the original image. This being why it needs to match the exposure time etc for the correct accuracy.
Yup, thanks, I know - about 17-18 people have reminded me of this in the comments below :-)
Cool! I'd be interested to see how the photos differ--say in moving water/waterfalls--between the 24-stop and something less...say 10 or 16-stops. How much MORE blur is the 24 actually adding to the water?
Not really any more at all hehe
perfect for taking pictures of explosions
So I’m just curious what’s wrong with stacking nd filters or using a welders glass?? Pretty sure it’s less expensive
can you review the Tokina 28-70mm f2.8 ?
hi chris. i hope you can also review the viltrox ef-m2... i think you're the only one that can review that gear properly. thanks
I will be one day
Cool! Now you have to try leaving the camera shooting for 6 days! I wonder how many hot pixels you may get 😂
Have you thought of reviewing any Kipon lenses any time soon? For example Kipon 35mm f/0.85...
I've contacted them to borrow a review copy but they haven't got back to me yet
It is possible to combine several of these NDs ?
Usually solar filters for viewing solar eclipse are 1/100,000 OD5.0 (some are OD6.0, 1/1million), but not as much as OD7.2
You can use an external USD battery with the A7RII.
Harold and his unobtainium
With an ND filter, there really is no good reason to have anything but your minimum ISO, maybe if you REALLY need a specifically long shutter, but not too long and the next ND filter you have is too bright, but I really can’t imagine when it would be necessary, especially if you’re willing to spend 150 bucks on a filter in the first place, then you might as well buy some GOBE filters (or any other brand, those are just the ones I have and they’re relatively cheap and not bad in the slightest) and stack them so they fit your need perfectly. (I know stacking filters is technically not ideal, but nor is upping the ISO.)
Alternative way to get similar results with less noise: save yourself the price of the filter, set up your camera without it, on the tripod, the same way, program it to take a shot (at 1/8000th or whatever other speed was your reference) every few seconds for the same total duration it would have taken the one picture with the filter, then mesh them together in post using the averaging method. Less noise, not more post-processing work since you don't have to correct the altered color from the filter... Only benefits.
If I'm not clear, check out tony northrupt's video on filters, he details this method very clearly and shows the workflow to average the images in post.
This dude is the Bob Ross of photography review.
I could find some pretty good uses for this.
With a stupid zoom lens you could take photos of the dun for example.
But my main idea would be photographing really high energy stuff, like flash powders and pyrotechnics where you need an open shutter outdoors and it's crazy bright when it finally goes off
Hi! Did you have some noice reduction turned on in the camera? Should not process that long after image is taken (if there’s no filter aplied afterwards)🤔
Long exposure noise reduction was on. Its pretty important for the image quality in this case
In my experience, the Pig Iron ND1000 filter is perfect for clouds and water
Or you could just use normal nd filters and then combine multiple photo exposures to get that super long exposure.
It's called photo stacking and it will actually produce a superior image with no noise.
Can't stack stuff that moves. Like car light trails. You can also use this to take video of something extremely bright.
@@C2H5OHist with fast cameras and memory cards, the downtime between the shots will be short enough that no noticeable artifacts happen
but where's the fun in that
@@tommihommi1 hahahaha no! Even 1ms is too long. Also you have NO IDEA what you're talking about. It's not about the speed of SD card. The first few images will live in the RAM of the camera jahahhahh 🍄
The sort of photo I would like to have seen with this is one of a landmark that usually has lots of people around. I'd like to have seen what a long exposure of people walking by constantly looks like.
4:19 Isn't it true though that if you turn off noise reduction, you won't have such a long processing time after long exposures? I did that one time when shooting stars at night at 10 second exposure timelapse, I didn't much care for the processing so when I turned off noise reduction it helped greatly.
Read the description :-)
American dad joke: a 257 pound ND filter?! Talk about a front-heavy setup!
Yayyy!!
You're back! (^^u)/
I would love to see a picture taken of any random bif city -think Times Square or a busy street in London and use this (but probably not 24 stops, more like the fore mentioned 16). I have to imagine the people would just vanish.
Your 17 minute processing time is because of in camera long exposure NR. Basically it takes a dark frame and subtracts it. Turn it off for faster processing.
24 stops is pretty crazy. Not one I will be getting any time soon :)
Might work as a good crowd remover in certain tourist location's?
I'd guess it's better to take several pictures and apply a 'median' filter. It would also remove some of the noise.
Which FluidHead is shown in the Video. Is this the Manfrotto 502?
MVH502A
Thats crazyy
I would like to record a rocket exhaust plume in slow motion with that filter. Would be awesome
I've watched quite a few of your videos, but didnt realise you were Welsh. What part?
I have a 100000 stops ND filter from Japan, but I don't know how to use it. What's that app you are using to calculate the exposure time?
There are loads of those apps. That one was called 'ND Calculator'
you still had deadpixel removal turned on, it takes a darkframe (shutter closed) with the same duration as the exposure. without it, the image is saved within seconds.
removing deadpixels per hand or with a pre-made mask is maybe faster
Extreme it is!
Perfect for selfies!
I didn't even know something like that was possible. But I will just stick with 10 stop filter that's enough
A 6 day exposure would look amazing with the sun movement. I think.
Be interesting to combine this filter with 35mm film to eliminate any noise....
you can turn off Long EXposure NR, and you don't have to wait after the picture is done
I'd like to see a seven day long exposure
Way too dark. The 10 stopper is dark enough for my taste.
id love to see what a photo taken over several days could look like tho
You could even use it for welding!
Hey, who removed the texture for the sea? Guys, put it back, please.
If ND 5.0 or ND 3,2 is enough for You - that is also very dark - You can cheaply buy solar spotting mylar foil (Called "Astrosolar Folie") wich is usually needed for watching sunspots with telescopes.
It's optical Quality is astro-grade (way enough for photogrphical imaging scales) and it's not difficult to make a filter cap (same as for telescopes) even for the biggest photo lenses.
A postcard - sized sheet of this foil (enough for a filter cap for most objectives) costs just about 13 Euros - biggest size avaliable is 117 x 117 cm, that's about 45" in square!!
P.s. Safety.... ND 5,0 foil filters the whole spectrum (incl UV and IR radiation) to an absolutely undangerous level.
It is safe, even if You look directly through a big telescope. Just have to be sure that the filter cap sits well on the objective...
I use this foil on different scopes up to the 8" newtonian telescope which in fact is an f=890mm f/4,4 objective!
Hey Chris can you review the tokina 50mm 1.4 opera??
I've asked them if I can borrow a review copy - they haven't got back to me (I can't afford to buy one, unfortunately!)
this is a good option to take pictures from crowded places and make people disapear
Hi Christopher, you might want to turn off the long exposure NR on your camera, quite frankly it does really little for noise reduction and would save you a lot of time. I use the A7r mk 2 as well, never noticed any difference in between long exposure with or without the noise reduction. If anything, a little bit of post-processing should fix it, especially with the Capture1 algorithm. Cheers!
I think it could be interesting to make a series of 24 hour exposures, at various location, to see how the change in lighting, over this period, would actually do. Of course, figuring out the correct exposure, would be difficult, to say the least, and really, you should change it on the fly, so that day won't dominate over night, and for a single exposure, your only tool would of course be the aperture, or alternatively a, what you call the, those variable ND filters, but I don't think you can get those dark enough, and add to that the issue of actually getting your camera to do a 24 hour exposure. Is that even possible? Alternatively, of course you could do multiple exposures, and stack them afterwards, but that would not be very sporting.
@Christopher, if you disable LENR {long exposure noise reduction} it shouldn't take another 17 minutes to process your image after shooting it. The reason why your camera is taking another 17 minutes is because of LENR taking an equal length dark frame to cancel out the noise.
Thanks for the videos have you tried a samyang nikon mount on a canon camera with a af confirm chip adaptor nikon to canon eos camera, this will get af confirmation and you could use the same lens on canon and nikon, I have vision problems and this will exelent for people like me with vision problems even on live I struggle with precise focus thanks!
I haven't tried that I'm afraid