Dirt Rally 2.0 - Just How Fast Are Group B Cars ?
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2019
- Im on Dirt Rally 2.0 finding out just how fast the Group B cars are, as they are raced against all the other classes of rally car.
Don't forget to like and subscribe :), also if you are feeling really generous you can support me on patreon www.patreon.com/user?u=2469444 - Hry
Todays supercars do 0-60 in around 2.3 - 2.6 seconds on tarmac, Groub B rally cars could do that in around than 2.8 seconds on GRAVEL.
I mean if there was a modern series like Group B, where there were veeery few restrictions and basically no homoligation (especially so for the 037) with todays technology unfortunately they'd probably be electric. But they'd be much faster than group B
@@lost6516 i agree - i think the homoligation rules for group b was as long as they sold 200 road going variations of their rally cars, they could race, which is bonkers.
@@lost6516 modern cars are faster than Group B, would be cool to see what would appear if restrictions were lifted though
a street Tesla does 0-60 in under 2.3, the VW i.D R probably even less
@@ChrisSmith-mk3wo It was 400, but with the 037 they made 200 and distracted the investigator and moved them to a new car park, apparently the Grand Tour has a suprisingly serious video related to the Lancia Quattro rivalry
In fact, Group B cars really were not that faster than current WRC-spec cars. While Group B cars were superior power advantage, they did loose time in low and medium speed stages (just like in Argentina). Honestly, a secondary test in Australia or Poland is required to show a whole picture.
Yes groub B cars didnt have modern suspension, tires etc.
Sebastian Nie Yeah, I think a more well rounded stage is needed to showcase each feature of each car
Group B cars were actually slower at Monte Carlo than the (admittedly cheating) Group A Celicas from just a decade later, modern WRC cars blow them out of the water for actual pace.
Sure nothing of that is related to the massive turbo lag
@@caralho5237 ...and advanced suspension technology, modern aerodynamics and so on
The duels between the Delta and the 205 still are the most amazing ever seen in WRC
Meanwhile, im still too scared to drive them 😂
aren't we all
Oh boy, can't wait for VR support ( *If* they do it lol )
didn't think you would comment on this video
@@anubis3015 Coming in Summer apparently
Nah
There is an Irony - that your critique of the Group B cars, mirrors the complaints by the Drivers who drove them IRL - too much to handle and tiny mistakes resulted in catastrophic crashes.
They were just too unpredictable
My favourite is the scariest to me. The Audi Quattro. When fully spooled, you're putting down so much power that I have trouble actually processing whats happening
Your conclusion to this video is pretty fair, and accurate to what a lot of drivers said at the time. The Group B cars could be faster, but they were complete animals to drive so they couldn't be consistently faster. The Group A cars were a lot easier to drive, even right up to the limit, so drivers could be consistently fast in them. And a Group B car on tarmac was pretty much a big crash looking for somewhere to happen...
“Group A cars were a lot easier to drive.”
Colin McRae: “Weeeee!!!”
Hahahaha ha you never had turbo lag in the metro because its naturally aspirated (sorry if I am wrong)
Nope entirely correct.
You are right
Metro doesnt have Turbo, so yeah.
Failrace drinking game:
Everytime Alex stops to take a breath halfway through a sentence
Whenever Alex says erm and laughs afterwards
Everytime Alex repeats himself 3 seconds after something he's just said
Everytime Alex says rally car
Ahh yes, Group B, the cure for diarrhea
*Cure for constipation.
Don’t you mean the cause for diahrrea
@@Dagreatdudeman no, because it makes you clench your buttcheeks to unspeakable levels.
yeah it will make you shit bricks
I'm having diarrhea while I'm watching this.
I'm serious, I'm in fetal position and trying to numb the pain in my gut with youtube :D
One thing I noticed is that many of the Group b cars from DiRT Rally either got more power, or got lighter. Like the RS200 was 450 hp and 2500 pounds in the DiRT Rally. in 2.0, it still has 450 hp, but is lighter at 2300 pounds
I like how he starts these episodes with that real slick, game-show host voice, and ends them sounding like a bag of mashed up crumpets with a hangover.
As soon as i had the money in Dirt Rally 1, my first proper rally car was the 205 T16. Dirt Rally 1 became ludicrously frustrating as a result because i'm not nearly talented enough to drave that devil machine quickly and consistently.
Couple of things I would like to add:
1. The Group A cars (Delta Integrale etc.) were overall setting faster stage times just a couple of years after Group B got banned.
2. The 205 T16 was the most succesful because it was the best car. The Lancia may or may not have been faster, but the 205 was easier to drive and had better handling. And this is coming straight from 4 time world champion Juha Kankkunen who drove for Peugeot in Group B and Lancia/Toyota in Group A.
3. The M3 would probably have been a second or two faster than the Cossie, but it is a bit more twitchy. Still like the Cossie more because of the Colin McRae factor.
4. It should be noted that the NR4 cars are not far of actual road cars and despite horsepower figures and weight being almost the same, they are ultimately slower than the R5 cars because of being more restricted by regulations.
You need to do a follow-up on an open, tarmac stage like that last one with the Delta... it would be quite interesting to see how the power and suspension differences would change the order around.
Tarmac physics are bad in Dirt Rally/Rally 2.0, so it wouldn't be accurate enought
@@mickael_guitara this one feels a lot better with the wheel than the first dirt rally, but it still needs a little work
They're unbelievable cars, my Uncle owns a Delta S4 and the experience of blasting round a rally stage in it is just unbeatable. Also had the opportunity to ride in a 6r4 and an RS200, nothing else I've ever been in comes close.
I tried the 205 on tarmac, it's soooo brutal. I just moved back to my classic rally with the Citroen DS, even though I love the 205.
Me too i think its op
But it really likes overstearing
I couldn't understand how I wasn't able to control the rwd and 4wd cars in this game until recently someone suggested using some traction control. It helps ALOT. I haven't tried the Sierra yet but so far the stratos I find is the easiest for me of the rwd. I find it much easier than the escort mrk2 and even the alpine. The delta a class and subaru imprezza a class are now my favourite cars. I love the sound and I love the feel. The traction control isn't that noticable but it has definitely helped me control the things and they handle a little more like I thought they would. In forza7 for example I never use traction control because I like to have the use of all the power and control slides n stuff when I want but this game is different.
Brilliant video. Good work.
If you watch some of the vintage footage of the T16, you'll see the drivers were often bouncing off the rev limiter for the exact same reason you have to in Dirt Rally 2.0 - it ensured the turbo was spooled up for the next gear
Very very interesting results indeed. I hope you are using H-pattern gearbox for the group B, A and RWD Sierra, since this added a layer of difficulty on top of all the rest of factors you named in your video. I don't remember if the N4 cars are H or sequential but it shouldn't make a big difference.
Countersteer, man! Keep those revs up, Sling it out early, and let it hang out all the way around!
Block Carrier I agree! He could've cut seconds off his time with every hair pin or tight turn he didn't take advantage of early counter steering in.
heavy duty
Damn great vid man
i find dirt rally being an incredibly hard game
It makes sense that the 6R4 was easier to drive. It was naturally aspirated, because when they started developing it they didn't want the turbo lag the other cars were having. It also was late to the party. If they had got it out on time they may have had a shot to develop it and keep up, but they didn't. :( Still my favourite Group B car. Was definitely one of the craziest looking vehicles.
rear engine with 4wd is the best 4wd for handling. But engine was too weak, it was just between rwd and turbo 4wd cars by timeattacks
I’m fairly certain that the a Group B delta at least was both supercharged and turbocharged. They had the supercharger for low rpm, then it would cut out to let the turbo take over. I don’t know if they were allowed to keep this system for group A though.
Any chance of you doing a follow up video when the first WRC cars (old 2000cc cars) arrive on March 12th ?
i have no probelm with this in a stage that doesnt have much high speed corner. but in the high spedd corner stages..... OH SHIT I THINK IM FLYIN-
The only car that I can control properly in dirt rally 2.0 is mini cooper 100 hp. It is fun to drive. I also got Renault's turbo charged one
American here, This is 2 years late to the video I know. About 3 years ago, I really got into F1 and I'm very familiar with it and love it now. I want to give Rally cars a shot. Are there seasons and racing events like F1? And where and how do I watch?
Love your channel by the way.
Can mirror Alex's praise for the R2 Category - having way more fun with that class than I ever thought possible. My favourite is the Opel Adam. It's absolutely tiny, has a brilliant peppy little N/A engine, and you can just chuck it around.
Seems odd that that isn't the starting class in Career mode.
Yeah, especially since we started in the R2 category in Dirt 4.
I don't mind the classic fwd cars being in this game, but my god they are slow.
Career mode just starts out with a huge grind because they are so boring to drive and you don't even have to drive them very aggressively due to the pretty slow AI.
Is dirt rally 2.0 just stage rally or is rally cross in it too?
@@andrewhardman3216
There is both ;)
I don't paticularly love the FWD cars because I have no clue on how to drive them fast. I just find the to be incredibly hard to maintain balance in.
Keep doing more content like this.
Yes, the GT category is an official thing in rallying, certainly in national-level events and it does seem to be most popular in continental Europe. Porsche 911s and Caymans, Nissan 370Z and Mustangs seem to be the most common entrants, but, as you said, Aston-Martins are sometimes seen and the odd Jag F-Type, and, I believe, the Camaro will be a more common sight this year after it having a few development runs last year. In North America I would imagine the Mustang would probably be the more common, but the formal introduction of the Camaro will probably see a few of them come out to play in the mud. But it's not just new stuff, I know someone who runs a Porsche 928 in the class, with a surprising amount of (relative) success...
Afaik the german rally champion from 2 years ago (i think) was one of the porsche drivers
What’s the name of this rally so that I can watch it?
gosportjamie I’ve seen heaps of on road rally gt but never any off-road is it a fairly uncommon thing?
@@jamesferro433 There aren't a whole lot of them, but enough for them to have their own class. They do run in dirt road events in Europe, but I can't help thinking you need to be very brave to put a 911, Mustang or 370Z on that stuff. The term "out of their comfort zone" very much comes to mind...
@@WhatSaab We only have 1 rally in Belgium with a lot of gravel (because we have few gravel rods left). This however shows an onboard of a 911 GT3 rallying on gravel in that race: czcams.com/video/yRYx9XlEolI/video.html
My best time in the game was with the supercharged turbo charged lancia delta. absolute beast! Love it. i beat my audi quatro time by around 5 seconds and yea the 205 is difficult with its high turbo lag unless you manage gears.
dude... it is one second over 20 mins... How could you! xD
because he is evil
The T 16 had lethal turbo lag the s4 was a death trap rip Toivonen, crespo. And spectators could literally touch the cars as they blitzed passed leading to deaths in Portugal lead to the demise of group b.
Actually my favorite era is the late 90's/early 2000's
Out of curiosity what was your time in the tarmac stage with the S4 at the end?
Dude, 205 T16 Evo 2 in 4th gear means you are one foot on grave... And it has 5 gears. That 3 bar Turbo is really something else.
GO ! GO! GO! 😊
They were pulling 1000hp out of the Delta S4 with 5bar worth of boost while developing it. They raced it at around 700hp.
gnarly
the s4 also has a low rpm super charger to cut the turbo lag
Try left foot breaking they did to keep the turbos fired up
Porsces and mustangs are rallied on gravel, not too common but they do exist
What do you use for input when racing? Steering wheel, gamepad or keyboard?
why didnt u use the delta s4 on the timed runns
Drinking game: Take a shot every time Alex says “a millimeter away”
They should add option to change different turbos on group b cars because that is what they did back in the days. On gravel t16 used turbos that gave about 400-440hp and on asphalt easily over 500hp.
you know you can use the clutch to get the revs up coming out of 2nd gear corners right?
You're very good
Group B cars are much scarier than other cars when at the same high speed
6r4 actually finished 3rd on its debut 1985 RAC Rally😀😀
Question: Did you follow the actual gearbox in the car you drove? I.E. Group B were all H-box and no e-brake, whereas modern cars have a sequential box and hydraulic e-brake...
damn i wish you had the audi urquattro in there too, i was itching to see how it compared
if you like the Sierra, I'd strongly recommend the BMW M3. It's N/A so no turbo lag to spin the wheels. The Renault 5 Turbo handles like a brick IMO due to its engline placement
The Porsche 911 RGT Cup is an actual RGT class rally car, same with the Aston.
Man I wish the wrc cars were in dirt rally, it’s so much better than the wrc games
Kyle Coulombe I know man that would be LOVE ! The I20 and that one Toyota i can’t for the life of me rember the name of it but man that would be awesome
I bought this game and it just arrived 😍
I can remember watching these cars in their prime the sound like nothing allowed today.
14:08 I believe the Metro 6R4 took third place behind the Lancia's in a British open one year...
The Metro also could have won a Belgian championship. It was faster than the only other group B doing the whole championship (an RS200) but the Metro kept breaking down.
This dude on every car. "I love to drive this car."
I agree, Skoda is way too rare in driving games. Also I am a huge fan of Group B cars.
Actually last summer when I was looking for a new car, Skoda was an option but all used Octavias or Superbs were diesels. =/ It´s not like I have some attitude problem with diesel, no I don´t but the diesel tax makes owning a diesel car very expensive. For example diesel tax for Octavia is 660€ per year, which is insane.
There was a Skoda Felicia in the first Colin McRae Rally game as well as the Octavia and 1st generation Fabia in the PS2 WRC games, other than that I don't think Skoda have been in any other racing game.
As far as cars go, my favorite era of rally is in the 60's. And while I unfortunately have no knowledge of modern racing games (aside from the new NFS Hot Pursuit and Most Wanted, the latter of which I think is bad. Not garbage, just not enjoyable.), the best game I can think of to demonstrate this era of cars - that I have experienced myself - is Rally Trophy, by Bugbear.
Never heard of that game before, even more surprising that it was Bugbears 1st game that they developed.
It even got awards for being the most realistic racing game of it's time. Even got a real Finnish rally driver, Rauno Aaltonen, as the Finnish co-driver.
Audi S1 supersport Quattro aka as the "bulldozer" due to its crazy front wing and wide bodykit costumization was producing between 591 to 680 bhp and from what i know the vehicle's weight as stock car was 1050 kg, i assume that the rally version would be lighter than that.
Among the legendary drivers who drove the beast was Walter Rohrl who told in an interview "Audi S1 is a very stubborn vehicle, it simply doesn't want to change direction".
With that been said i think that among the hardest to handle vehicles S1 should be at the top.
The difference between nowadays cars and group B is the atmosphere. Group B was much more exciting to watch, you had drivers on the limit changing gears in stick, heel and toe and then there's the noise, which was just insane. (and yes, modern wrc sounds good imo but group B was Miles ahead). Also there's the fact group B had a lot of experimentation and innovation in the cars, today the cars are very similar.
Nice video, but I don't think this short and tight course does the 205 justice. It needs some nice open stages, primarily because of the lag.
Would have preferred to see this done on a faster stage.
The modern cars are quicker in the corners, But most of the Group B had amazing top speed and pulled for ages
Did you use handbrake in the 205?
in fact with the group B 4x4 you could not use the handbrake, because the central differential did not allow it> handbrake = 4 wheels blocked ...
So, why the Group A did have handbrake? Thqy were 4WD too...
@@gufo_tave because Group A is the next génération of rallye car ...
if group B had continued for 2 more years, they would have had the central diff autoblock etc
if group B would have continued 10 more years, they would have had the sequential gearbox
etc etc etc , i mean in 1986 you can't use handbrake like now cuz " the technology "
The delta was twincharged. It had a supercharger for the low end until the turbo spooled up.
@@Random-nf7qb not saying it is the ultimate setup and it's rather difficult to engineer and maintain but the idea is interesting
Random41 I think it works like the Nissan super turbo where both s/c and t/c are always working at the same time just to provide near permanent boost
@@andrewhardman3216 I'm not all that well versed in mechanics so I'd like to ask you this question if you don't mind.
If you're using a twincharge setup wouldn't your turbo spool up quicker because more is being forced into the engine because of the super charger?
Graciel Kelly It makes the turbo more efficient, boosted air in means less work to boost it
You were playing with a controller or a steering wheel ?
Could you please put a small square of 1st person footage in the corner, as the 3rd person bit plays?
Not just on tarmac the 037 won the fucking WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP against the Quattro
Short Answer:Still faster than modern rally cars:)
8:08See,Lancia win and win again and win again and win again...
Yea that's a group A car tho
Hey coreross, i have been interested in purchasing dirt rally 2 (i have a race wheel) and i had just one question can you drive nicely drive the car whitout tuning it every time, i bought pc2 and i really disliked it because i had to tune every car. It had a lot of under/over steer. Hopefully you can reply or another dirt rally purchaser
Sorry i called you coreross i meant failrace of course, he is an english youtuber and i always mix you guys up
What setup are you playing on?
it's 2023 and the quatro is still hard as fudge to drive 🗿
Will Gollop fixed the problems with the 6r4 in his rallycross car. Turns out twin turbos solve a lot of problems.....
Not to mention that it helps when your, in reality sole rival decides to step in to the middle of the racetrack and stop the race himself. Earning him a long ban! :P Crazy Days!
The 037 did beat the Quattro on gravel. If you want proof watch the Audi vs Lancia episode of The Grand Tour.
Test the group b delta on that
Turbo technology and suspension design has come long way since 1980. The suspensions used were based on stock components, shocks were basically off the shell items. Turbos were laggy due to inefficient turbine compressor wheels and bushing style bearings. Also ALS was very primitive compared to today and engine management was nil.
They had no ALS or Bang-Bang on the group B's. That idea was invented by Toyota and first used on the Celica group A's. One of the first tests of that system was Marc Duez in a Celica in the Condroz rally. The first time we saw and especially heard the car we thought it was broken...
no quattro that was the best B group rally car, 22 wins in WRC it is top 10 of all time (in real life it had much more hp than in game)
Only against 2wd. After 205 t16 and Lancia Delta S4, the Audi was doomed.
What wheel do you use?
i miss the Lancia rally cars like Delta , 037 and Stratos !
At least in Dirt rally I found the group B cars to be actually easier to drive than the modern ones.
You have so much power that you don't actually need to use, leave some of it in reserve, stay in the power band and you're flying. In modern cars you have to push it to corners so you're on the limit more.
In group B especially the 205 T16 is easy; very maneuverable in corners, don't push it, feel the grip and point it where you want it with left-foot braking and it goes like a dream. When you full throttle it every corner that's when you're gooched
Okay what you don't understand here, at least from your comment it seems, you have to push these cars to keep the power going, especially the 205, because of the big reliance on turbo.
The only one that didn't have that problem was the legendary Delta S4, which had a supercharger for the low rpm amd then it switched to a turbo on the high on for that crazy up to 1000hp boost.
@@berserker8884 Left-foot braking is the key, a technique used by real rally drivers. A little bit of brake in corners helps a lot on keeping boost pressure up
@@j-psalmi8039 OH okay, I didn't know that is what you meant.
El Rodeo. fitting. Bucking Bronco cars.
You should've done Finland stages
I think it's an unfair comparison if you really wanna show the full potential of the Group B cars
The way modern era rally cars have gotten better is their cornering ability and Argentina is by far the worst stage in that comparison for the Group B car class
Not only this but on a stage like Argentina you should've picked the Delta S4 considering it's supercharger turbo mix
With the turbo charger in the mixture you wouldn't constantly be in turbo lag on twist Argentina stages
Group B was bound to be gone with that speed and the spectators. And because it's gone that's why it became beyond legendary. If the spectators are being controlled well and still going on, Group B results will be much ridiculous than what we've seen. And will be even more popular than it was. But that is another 'WHAT IF'.
Modern day WRC fan or Group B era fan they’ll always be arguing between both sides and thinking of it ( it’s not worth it because love one and hate the other) it will always turn into a recipe for disaster and in rallying there’s been plenty of them over the years - but remember us lot being sarcastic and hostile with each other won’t change the fact that we’re here because we all have a passion of the sport so “if your going grey” or got a face full of yellow heads and craters just enjoy it while you can because some of those who brought it to us can’t.
Stay safe everyone and goodbye!
Can u get the mk2 Escort with the normal version of the game
Imagine modern WRC cars with heavily tuned engines and over 600hp. Today's tech and safety should be viable enough.
The quattro is yes fast
And 5th gezr is yes suicidal
Just imagine that V8 in the 205.....20hp less but with torque available everywhere.....beast
Would be whole lot heavier and therefore slower, especially in a tight track like this.
@@Alpostpone I don't think so,
That ls3 or lt1 is a very light engine
@@jarrusjenkins For big V8, yes. Still way more than small all-aluminum I4 race engine.
@@Alpostpone I still wouldn't have thought it would be that massive of a margin, and besides the advantages I reckon would mitigate those disadvantages,
But it will never happen either way, and the 205 t16 is an awesome car regardless
Bring them back with better crowd control
yessss
Seen porches on dirt stages in uk
they are trying to get those Rally GT cars to WRC Finland this year
Is it just me, or do cars in Dirt Rally (both 1 and 2) seem unaffected by the front wheels?
They appear to simply pivot around their center of gravity.
\o/ Like 666 :D how appropriate :D great stuff Failrace :D
A thought. Were the stages they used during Group B less twisty and more sweeping and fast than modern rally stages?
At least here in Belgium.... No. We still use a lot of the same stretches in current day rallying as in the mid 80s with the Group Bs. The current R5s are also faster on them and it's the sweeping corners where the R5s are soo much faster. They are more stable in direction changes and go faster through sweeping corners by a lot.
omg they are so frickin fast.
Yes lol
pace notes in Argentina be like: Hair pin left, into hari pin right, into hair pin left...
my favorite era of rallying is group A
Subarus? :D
@@baktru that's right
Did you play on a wheel?
yellow like hello but yellow
ello