the disturbing reality of the 'innocent image' in kpop
Vložit
- čas přidán 17. 07. 2024
- Hey guys! Following on from my video looking into the 'cool mysterious guy' persona in kpop, I asked which 'persona' you'd like us to discuss next and a few people mentioned this one...so here goes!
I really hope you enjoy this video! If so, please give it a thumbs up and let me know your thoughts in the comments (and perhaps any other personas you would like us to look at in the future).
If you're new here, please hit that subscribe button and turn on the notification bell to be the first to hear whenever I upload!
Thank you so much for watching, and I'll see you in the next one!
- dearyoongi 💖
-
-
-
FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER & INSTAGRAM, LETS BE FRIENDS!~
Twitter: / dearyoongi
Instagram: / dearyoongiyt
-
-
-
TIME STAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:38 What is the 'innocent image' in kpop?
1:53 Example 1
3:09 Example 2
4:56 Example 3
6:15 Example 4
7:46 Why would companies assign this image? Reason 1
9:10 Why would companies assign this image? Reason 2
10:11 Negative effects of the image? Reason 1
12:42 Negative effects of the image? Reason 2
13:37 Conclusion & final thoughts
15:15 Outro
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
nct,nct dream,renjun,taemin,shinee,girls generation,snsd,sm entertainment,bts,jungkook,blackpink,lisa - Věda a technologie
For Taemin, he actually had a very very very hard time changing his image. When he debuted solo, he really went from the "innocent cute boy" in SHINee to somewhat an opposite image, and he suffered from an heavy backlash. His own fandom turned on him, and many acted as if he betrayed them.
Taemin was deemed the "innocent one" from debut, he was heavily sexually harassed, pushed into images and concepts he didn't know how to feel about (or even disliked), and for newer fans who may have seen it for BTS' Jungkook or Enhypen's Niki... Taemin was actually a pioneer to the whole "having a countdown to his 18' birthday" thing. His older women fans even called themselves "pedo noonas"... They sexualized him as a child, and a young adult, so him reclaiming an adult image truly infuriated people in some ways. Like... He should be sexualized, but he shouldn't reclaim his own image and sexuality (and I do feel his last comeback, Guilty, could be read partly as his experience with that : being a sexual object as a child and a young adult, being berated for wanting to break free, and finally reclaiming things for himself)
So he's actually not at all an artist that had a "smooth change". Even Move, his "break-through" solo that made him one of the most iconic soloist of the industry received a lot of backlash for how he chose to present himself (because this time he really did chose to define himself in a very different way than usual : reclaiming a somewhat androgynous image, and pushing the boundaries of how people danced depending of their gender in K-pop. After Move, guys in K-Pop truly started to dance differently).
Taemin now has a certain image that isn't "the innocent one" anymore. But people do have to understand it's actually REALLY RECENT, and it was not smooth at all, he really did suffer from a lot of backlash, it was very very very nasty. And the innocent image is not totally gone at all too, considering how people acted when Guilty was released......
I was thinking about Ni-Ki and Jungkook too. 🥺
And there is like literally evidence of all of it, it's so sad. I've been a fan for MANY years. And recently I was watching older fancams of his that I had on CZcams, and my god the amount of comments I saw that sexualized him was crazy, it was during Hello era I think(so he was around 16), and even some fans outed themselves saying, "I'm such a creepy noona I shouldn't be thinking or saying these thing about taemin". Same with the fans talking shit on him when his teaser came out about his solo debut(if u scroll down enough u can find those fans under the teaser vids). They were also mad because he was "too young" to have a solo debut(even tho that was his choice and why didn't they have this energy when he debut at 14) and because they thought the other members deserved it more. Not to mention he was made fun of for being too skinny(which also caused him to be feminized)
you explained it very well
@@Liz_Lizille For Jungkook, the whole 3D fiasco on Twitter months ago was... Hum... A thing, I guess. They were peoplewriting fanfics about him being upset he sang a song about fucking people like ???? Why do you want to sexualize him, but get upset when he chose to sexualize himself on his own terms ??? It truly seems the "innocent image" became actually a fetish stamped on him.
And for Ni-ki people were disgusting. Truly, the whole "pedo noonas" things isn't dead at all. The second he turned 18, there were so much people being like "lol, it's ok for me to post nasty things in public now" ??? Like omg, free this boy, what was this... And it was so many people too...
@@maggot2259 Right right. The relics of these eras are really not that hard to find, it's scary. There's literally video compilations of Taemin being harassed on TV shows (with this famous video of I don't know who anymore approaching him in a weird way and Jonghyun stepping up to protect him... Which is great, I'm glad the SHINee members, and especially Jonghyun protected Taemin, but... They were kids too, protecting another kid from adults... TT Sometimes I look back to this era, and I realize making teenages aged between 14 and 18/19 was fucked up. That's way too young, and the older members were forced to grow up and seem mature way too fast)
And yes OMG ! Taemin's debut was really a nasty era. Shawols wanted Jonghyun to debut first, since he was one of the oldest, and he coul compose and write things himself. They were really mean with Taemin, no matter how much the other members tried to hype him up and make people understand they supported him being the first to debut. They really expected Taemin to stay the innocent little kid, to not take initiatives and to perfectly fit the image they had of him forever. It's truly because people saw Taemin as a object, no one can convince me it was anything else.
The weird part I find is fans who are younger then the idol still infantilize them.
Literally, like those 14 yr old Jungkook stans who call him “baby bunny,” even tho he is a fully grown man who smokes and sings abt sex. Like, good grief, he obviously is trying to get away from his innocent image,and the fans don’t care
Yeah, like, you can find them cute but you can't infantilize them.
@@cosas_de_gatos calling him baby bunny is not the issue. Obviously you call your loved ones cute names. But denying the fact that he smokes or saying stuff like his favourite drink is milk is damn weird 😂
@@_iam1533 I mean, I guess there’s not an issue giving idols cute names, but I saw a video of him smoking, and all the comments were like, “aww our poor baby bunny ❤️❤️❤️❤️😔 I don’t want him to hurt his lungs” and shit like that. It’s just weird
@@_iam1533 I guess what I mean is, calling a grown man who obviously wants to gain a more mature image “baby bunny” all the time is infantilizing and almost feels disrespectful? Idk
I'd say Taemin has suffered the most from this. I mean, even now after all this time he still suffers from this issue. Poor dude.
I see you everywhere 😭
@@shineeverse It's because I am your loyal subscriber
@@Kais_Peaches 🥺🤍
@@shineeverse 😁
Ikr he was one of the first young men in kpop to experience something like this. He and Boa went through it and people still dare to say something bad about them😤
Isn't it crazy that they stopped assigning members with innocent images and just started debuting children instead 😍
They’ve always debuted children
@@brennathecatlover4360 While you're right, the general consensus was debuting A CHILD with people a little older than them, and there would usually be one or two minors in a group. But now entire groups are children with a singular adult or sometimes no adults. That's the difference
@@miwami. they’ve done that too tho there’s plenty of 1st and 2nd gen groups where the majority or all are minors
fans are becoming much younger and the kpop industry focuses a lot on their idols being "relatable" to fans, and young kids and teenagers, majority of kpop stans nowadays, can't really "relate" to an idol who's actually old enough to debut
@@miwami. Friendly reminder that SHINee debuted in the same age range as NewJeans. Where the oldest Onew was 18 and Jonghyun just.turned 18 the month prior their debut and the rest were minors. Their debut song was "Noona Neomu Yeppeo" which lyrics were literally aimed at older women and they were also called "noona killers". Their marketing scheme was literally directly aiming these minors and barely adults for a much older audience. Honestly wouldn't sit right in today's times and there'll be more backlash on SM but unfortunately this was what kids were set up with back then and nobody protected them.
Taemin was treated so disgustingly. It's honestly horrific how he's been treated on camera alone. I remember watching some of those old videos and feeling this pit in my stomach. The man's been through a lot more than I think people really acknowledge. Some of those really made me want to cry
As gifted as Taemin is, him debuting as a minor still makes me super uncomfortable because the K-Pop industry’s history with minors is beyond sick.
I'm sure his SHINee hyungs protected him as much as they could
I mean he’s still getting treated the same
@@styxroasteris Taemin definitely had it the worst, but honestly they were all treated pretty abominably. :\ I've been watching debut-age SHINee content lately and there's too many instances where they had to protect each other - like Onew and Jonghyun (only 17 and 18 themselves) literally leaning in to put themselves between Minho and a middle-aged male MC who was being creepy and clearly making him uncomfortable.
Taemin, Key, and Minho recently did some interviews and segments for the SHINee movie, and Taemin commented that if he could debut again, he'd like to do it as an adult with his members "because of the things we went through." We likely don't even know the half of it.
It is sickening and it makes me feel even more disgusted that people have the audacity to say male idols don't get sexualised and harrassed like female idols.. He was a kid and those grown adults were being weird and inappropriate with him
@@styxroasteriswhat make you so sure
Is so funny to see the contrast between Renjun's innocent sweet image and his "woke up and choose violence" personality 😂. He takes no sh*t from anybody and it's always ready to fight. I think his charisma + a innocent visual made him a lot more popular in NCT's fandom.
A member that is definetly being to infantilized by the fans is Jisung, while Chenle is being treated like an adult Jisung is still treated like a baby, and SM seems to be the one pushing this persona on him after his controversy in the past to clean his image. It's sad cuz he has so much potential and charisma on stage to be the mysterious cool guy (like in BOOM era) but he seems to be holding himself.
lmao my fave part about renjun is the he woke up and chose violence
Fr! I saw many people literally DESTROYED because Jisung isn't the maknae anymore. I don't get it, he's not a baby but is still being treated like one
What controversy are you referring to?
@@BSMutebi-uk3hi when he said Haechan was ugly and make fun of his tan skin, and internacional kpop fans start to call him out for being racist, etc. After that he never said that kind of things again to his hyungs or make fun of them like he used to
@@resaav6645 he's still the maknae tho... maybe you meant that he's a grown now?
please do a taemin video, not a lot of people know what he went through being a part of the industry at such a young age and seeing how currently we still have minors debuting, its really important to touch on this type of topic.
Yes yes yes, I fully believe guilty was targeted at MHJ and others lol
As someone who has the stereotypical 'neoteny' face (official word for baby-face) I always felt bothered how other adults treated me as soon as I turned an adult myself. I'm roughly 10 years into adulthood and quite a lot of people still treat me weirdly. Either looking down on me or sensualizing me, if you will. Both really harm me and frustrate me. When people overly infantilize idols I just get extremely uncomfortable.
babyfaced here, i have acquaintances who still deny my agency...
People think I am 12 year old. I remember I went to school to get my cousin and some teacher thought I was a new student.
@wonlisaa same, I'm turning 20 next month and people still think I'm like 14
@@jimams_jamz5518 I'm a lot older now, but I can really relate. This was me as a college student.
Im 40 and it doesn't get any better
I’m autistic. I know a thing or two about being infantilised. It’s not fun. I’m emotionally intelligent and have decent critical thinking. Yet people will talk to me like a child and give me unwarranted help for simple things.
I hope fans, variety shows and companies stop doing this to idols.
I look way younger then my age, and people don’t take me serious because of that.
i have a similar experience. i have both autism and adhd and despite the fact im 19 years old i get treated differently compared to non autistic people the same age as me and younger. its annoying and insufferable when someone talks down to you like you’re a 5 year old, except you’re a grown woman who is fully capable of understanding what they mean without the baby voice and over explaining. im glad im not alone in this experience though and as ive gotten older and left secondary school ive been able to surround myself with people who see me before they see my conditions
@@aeblink1332 are we the same person? I’m also AuADHD and 19! Are you also British? I’m only guessing since you said secondary school instead of high school.
@@P1eceful_Tomorrow yeah i’m from the uk but it’s interesting to see someone having the same experience as me
Me too! Honestly when I first got into Shinee Taemin definitely gave me autistic vibes, especially when he was young. Also, I thought the British person was talking about middle school rather than realizing they're British lol
It's really going to be interesting seeing how NewJeans's image evolves over the next few years. Their concept is inherently so ethereal and innocent. It's difficult to imagine that they won't have outgrown it by the time they hit their 20s.
Innocent but with lyrics like cookie💀 Their marketing team knows who are the fans that will spent more money in them, sadly grow up mens
@@Lucid.24 Hahaha I totally roast HYBE for that exact thing in one of my upcoming episodes when I talk about how Kpop uses extra-long safety shorts for "innocent" groups like NewJeans to "avoid sexualizing them," as if their debut wasn't the most obvious of all possible double entendres. Couldn't agree more.
@@Lucid.24 and yet Koreans didn't have any problem with that song and said the lyrics aren't sexual sooo who rly is the weirdo here
@@user-vv7hc7kb5o koreans as japanese people don't use double meaning a lot like in western countries, so most of them will take the lyrics literally. In publicity people don't know they are using sex to sell you something, it's hidden so you just want to buy it but you don't see nothing wrong. That happens in pop music since always, most k-pop title tracks have a double meaning, girl groups with a big male audience specially. The double meaning it's in the MV's (like the typical "eating an ice cream out of nowhere" scene), in photo shoots (like Danielle using a shirt that you can read "Virgin" for Super Shy, it says Virginia but casually it only shows Virgin in that photo they choose) and it's very clear in their lyrics. If they are all adults it's ok, but always will be people trying to deny this and the way the industry works. Maybe they are too young to think about it or just their brains take things literally and don't think further in the lyrics of the songs. The singer Park Ji Yoon of " coming of age ceremony" said she cried when she understood the meaning of the lyrics of that song , she was too young and dindn't saw anything wrong back then. A lot of idols just don't understand the lyrics and just do wath they are told.
@@user-vv7hc7kb5obecause they’re pedos
Great video. Another idol who I have to really bring up on the topic of infantalization due to a pure innocent image is Hueningkai of TXT. Like it’s actually insane how much MOAs are babying him for every single little thing that he does. For example, he accidentally leaked Beomgyu’s number on a We-Live, and the reaction was this: “omg poor baby” “it’s okay Kai you’re a baby anyway”. Like, okay great that you weren’t destroying him for making a mistake but you could’ve done that without mentioning the fact he’s apparently a “baby”. The man is 21 years old turning 22 later this year in August. That’s not a baby; he’s older than half of the fandom at this point. Another issue is the fact that MOAs refuse to acknowledge the fact Kai is no longer the 16-year-old poodle-haired boy that he was during Crown era and claim that him acting like a grown man is the influence of the other members. You see him acting hot on stage? “It’s Yeonjun’s influence”. You see him tugging at his clothes during his performance? “Taehyun taught him well”. Speaking of Taehyun, it’s honestly kinda crazy how differently MOAs treat the two same-aged members of TXT. Taehyun is only a couple months older than Kai yet he’s treated like an adult, because people are LOVING the way he performs Tinnitus and have zero issue with him acting more mature or showing his muscles. Like he gets none of the comments Kai does when he acts like the grown man he is (Taehyun does suffer more extreme sexualization than Kai but that’s a conversation for another time). I really wonder if those fans who believe Kai has always been “acting like a cutie” no matter where he goes have even been around for a long time. Because when Run Away was released where Kai was 17, his performance style changed, leaning more towards a stronger, expressive and, I will say it, not so innocent and youthful smiley style. And this has been the case ever since then (aside from Blue Hour era since that was a bit more of a bright concept that all members expressed in a happy way). I feel like Good Boy Gone Bad era especially gave Kai the chance to show that he isn’t a kid anymore as he turned 20 a few months after its release, and he was really shining in the edgy dark concept this song had, but some MOAs still cannot let him breathe and act like his age. Kai even spoke up once how one of the trainees forced this image on him, and we still brushed that over and associate aegyo and the cutie persona to him. Truly hoping that in 2024 Kai can express himself as an adult WITHOUT people making doubtful comments about the way he presents himself.
I see Kai currently are able to express himself well now and im thankful for that. But ofc there'll still be people that babying him hell they even babying all of them actually.
But as long the members didn't say that they're uncomfortable or wanting moa to stop it's still fine just don't overboard. Even in the Moa diary song there's lyrics "So what if it's childish it's us" is the lyrics the members wrote themselves.
Us moa can't really argue that the real txt have those childish side (they're full of aegyo istg and im not complaining) and also the concepts of the group 'protecting once innocents during adulthood' really speaks their true colours.
yes! i kinda notice him 'acting outside' of his 'character' these days too, im pretty sure he notices how his fans seem to view him so hes kinda preemptively shaking it off, smart guy.
This is such a big issue that is everywhere but especially in Kpop for some reason. Taemin by far is one of the nastiest thing ive ever seen happen in real time, the thing people are comfortable saying and doing things on camera or online is crazy(both infantalized, sexualized, and femenized). I also think we need to talk more about the underage girls in kpop being sexalized so much by their OWN company, its gotten better but its so infuriating and how the girls get so much hate for it too.
it's sad that all these young idols are over-infantilized, yet get over-sexualized too, like taemin.just seems like varying ways for toxic fans and the labels to have control over the artist
Congrats to those who managed to free themselves from being infantilized performing dolls who are objectified and enslaved by their “fans”, to independent self determining artists and creators working in their own terms.
Can we talk about how women tend to get away with sexually harassing men? Because with ni-ki and taemin the way girls kept sexualizing them was disgusting and would not have gone unpunished if the reverse was the case.
The fact that their fans could call themselves "pedo noonas" without any shame should put them on the FBI watch list.
In taemin's case ot wa sunfortunately both genders
@@airari24 I don't care about men right now, my issue is women scream about harassment all the time yet are the first to harass a man the moment the chance arises yet no one seems to have a problem with it because when its a man it's ok. My focus for taemin and Niki are the female fans shouting gender equality with one mouth then saying creepy shit with the same mouth because y'know it's a dude so it's ok as if men aren't people too. I'm a woman and I'm sick of all double standards.
But then they bark if a man calls a female idol pretty. And it’s always the female fans too but they blame men when that’s a problem u did on your own people 😂
@@brennathecatlover4360 thank you! Enough of this "rules for thee and not for me" behavior. We can't be fighting for gender equality then turn around and do the very same thing we accuse men of doing it's just wrong.
On a vlive, Choi Beomgyu was asked if he was going to stop being silly and funny now that he had reached a certain age. He, very seriously, looked into the camera and said, "No. It's what I'm paid to do." However, I have noticed that recently, he has used this image only during filming their shows but acting his age in real life.
Is this really the case ? Cuz , i don't know much abt txt , not really a MOA but am aware of the members and beomgyu's like the silly goofball , it's just acting ... ig
10:13 after hearing your points I instantly thought of Eunchae from Le sserafim , she is often viewed as the perfect maknae to exist , because she has a cute and youthful image . She is currently 17 years old and I think by the time she will be an adult it will be really difficult for her to adapt are more mature image , because of all the people who baby her and see her as the cute one in the group. I think the fault for her image is definitely source music , because she said it in an interview herself what hybe let her wear braids and bows ..( interview with Eunchae & Nayeon together )
Honestly I feel so sad for her and all the other maknaes who have to go through a rough image change as they grow older . 😢😢
(I’m sorry if my English is bad)
I'm glad for Kiss of life Haneul (although she does mature dances when she's still not quite an adult) I don't think she would ever have an issue like this, being forced into an image
And also Kyujin of Nmixx
@@StayexoltinyI mean artists know what direction their music will for the most part before they actually sign the contract to debut so she knew it would be sexy
Hybe does what with bows and braids?
She's 17???? I thought she was at least 20.. I don't keep up with them so I was shocked because I'm also 17 😭
If you are a maknae you get that image assigned to you by default, especially if your you give that impression with your facial features. People buy into stereotypes. SM was especially controlling how their idols expressed themselves and what kind of image of them is out there.
fans like it better when idols have one dimensional personalities.
I remeber reading somewhere the members saying that Jungkook wasn’t allowed in the gym anymore because they wanted him to keep he’s young body.. that same era he always had a bowl cut and seem to do childish things for fanmeets and was called Nona killer.. Idk it never sat right with me
The thing with the gym could be that then clothing the company had bought would not fit him anymore.
With Jungkook, the issue wasn't to maintain a childish image, it was because he easily builds bulk rather than muscle tone and kept growing out of the custom made, expensive designer clothing worn on stage, at photo shoots and at personal appearances. He also, literally, kept destroying the stage costumes with the aggressive choreography. As for doing "childish things for fanmeets," have you watched any of his live broadcasts? He isn't an especially serious man at all times. He's goofy and fun. Does he take advantage of his maknae/little brother title? Heck yes, and he has admitted it.
This issue isn’t just a k-pop issue but industry wide.
You have Disney kids struggling to grow up. You have Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and Jessica Simpson performing and growing up during peak misogyny. You had the spice girls, who picked their personas.
Billie Eilish refused to dress provocatively because she didn’t want to be sexualized as a minor.
The thing about the music industry is this play on duality in an industry that debuts artists at a very young age, where culturally speaking, the innocent persona is more widespread than in other countries.
I absolutely agree this is an issue around the pop industry! I was debating including the example of how ex-Disney stars have experienced similar difficulties, so thank you for adding!😁
At least at Disney, grown-ass men didn't have to play with toys at fan meets & pretend to kiss each other & act like they're dating each other so their crazy fans could get their rocks off. I never saw that stuff here in America, sorry. Not even once.
@@connie7128 I see where you’re coming from.
I’m Asian. it is a cultural thing. Men outside of k-pop willingly act like this. not all idols are “forced” to be this, but yes, some will begrudgingly participate on variety shows, etc. I’d say it’s the least of their problems though.
Justin Bieber as well, there's a informative video on by Patrick Cc. It's really disturbing.
Renjun's real personality is also impressive to me. Wish he can show his real self more in future.
One of the things I liked about kpop when I first got into it is that I could see adults performing a sensual or sexual song without being explicit or graphic. It made sense, because I was a teenager myself.
In my personal opinion, I think that for children growing up in the industry that distinction needs to be more firm than for anyone else.
Handling more mature topics, costumes, dances, lyrics, etc as they age makes sense. There's nothing wrong with an innocent concept, mind you. But a childish concept is kind of weird past the age where you are actually a child.
Kpop likes to get it wrong on both ends - have children doing concepts meant for adults, and adults doing concepts meant for children. I feel like it's intentional because they know who they're selling that too.
But I think in terms of safety for young idols, they should be allowed to be children when young, and as they grow, they should be allowed to handle more adult concepts...
But personally, I wouldn't let or encourage anyone under 21 to do an explicit concept. Because even though 18 is our arbitrary age for adulthood, at that age you are grown in body but not mentally or emotionally. And you have very little life experience, which is a problem I think kpop artists actually suffer from more, because their heavy training schedules block them off from seeing much of other ways of life.
They may be experienced with the industry, but entertainment industries are almost universally toxic, depraved, and shady. Exploitation, overwork, and abuse are common behind closed doors.
So I suspect many of these teenagers don't have the experience to advocate for themselves and proactively protect themselves. This is why, until they are grown and experienced enough to have an idea of what they can handle, I'd go for mature concepts, but not sexually explicit concepts. Because the latter attract a whole different type of fan and a whole different type of obsession. And once done, it can't be taken back.
Something I’ve hated when I first got into K-pop (& still hate) is fans babying GROWN adults, it’s so weird & creepy. Also not to mention that majority of the people who be calling idols “cute baby’s” are mostly 13-15 meaning they are always younger saying that to someone who’s on the verge of 30. I was always weirded out with armys cause they mostly did this
I do wonder if the fact this image is often put on young idols also comes from the fact fans think they never dated ?
What i mean by that is it's a well known fact dating is kinda banned for idols especially in the earlier years of their contract. So when you're young the chances of having already had a relationship are considered slimmer? Be it true or not. Fans sometimes make the assumption that they're more "innocent" or "pure" because of that.
Which kind of explains why some fans still have a big issues with jk's music talking about mature theme because it's like contraticting some of their conception of him and sometimes hitting the delulism.
We can argue that it's even more disturbing when we think about it because idols personal life is none of our business so we shouldn't care. And also that innocence would be linked to some sexual "purity" which is even more ugh.
Yeah I definitely agree. It’s so weird because when JK released more sensual songs they all jumped and were like “the west is influencing him” when he literally told them that he was 26 and it’s normal.
Majority of army dont have a problem with Jungkooks music lol he's been grown for years now, hell he's 26 turning 27 this year😭😭😭 add in that a lot of the fandom is in their late teens/20s and in their 30s I promise you we truly dgaf
@@Nini-ie9ip "they all jumped him" who is they exactly??
@@user-vv7hc7kb5o yeah ik Im an army too, but just bc most of them are Norma doesn’t not mean that there aren’t weirdos. I was just highlighting what happened, this culture around kpop is just harmful in many ways 👍
@@user-vv7hc7kb5o the ones that are infantilizing him? That’s still happens a lot on tiktok and twittter
I would love to see an indepth video on taemin from you actually!
Just looking at the title, the first group I think of is Lovelys. I remember that call where they were cursing when they didn’t think anyone could hear them, and people said they ruined their “innocent” image. What a lot of bowl. They are human, they are allowed to get someone who is attacking them. I don’t know if this is covered of the video, but I wanted to put it here in case I forgot by the time I finished.😅
I'm 07liner, idols my age being treated like kids while on the street I'm called "ma'am"
Like all the 07 and 08 liners I know have beards, get drunk in parties and smoke while the idols who are the same age are treated like babies 😭
@@neology127 an exampel my classmat, he has a full beard. I thought he was the teacher when I first saw him
I mean that's still preeeetty young. I'm over the age of 20 now and idols my age and above are infantilized while I'm quite literally an adult in all parts of the world. 16-17 y/o are still "teens" in a sense and should not be in the industry anyway, which is why a lot of people tend to treat them more like kids.
Agencies literally created a monster in the fandom because as idols mature and want to do normal things like date their “fans” become psychotic in their perceptions and treatment of them-so bizarre and so sad-they have created a nation of living Barbie and Ken dolls
I know it’s horrid and I hate it
Taemin wasn't able to let go of that so smoothly just bcz he released solo music..he tried..but people wasn't ready to accept it..even now people still can't let go of that baby taemin image,release of guilty proved it..maybe new fans are more used to his darker image..but older fans and even the industry is not ready to let go of that innocent baby taemin..
I'm really sry for him..what he had to go through still have to go through it,he is really strong to endure it all since 14..i always stop watching SHINee's old video halfway through bcz it boils my blood,how he treat him..those shtty adults sexualizing him toching him,oh,even thinking made me soo angry..
It’s a huge generalization, many older fans have also grown up and are mature now and can realize and appreciate the nuance.
I love that jongho of ateez and I.N of stray kids didn't get to experience any of these
I hope upcoming groups wont too...
Idk abt jongho but I.N definitely did stays call him baby bread,so cute and when acts more mature they would go 'daddy toast' and it really doesn't sit with me like hes 22-23 yrs old.....
I'm glad that groups like Ateez and Stray Kids don't really have issues like these.....or 4th gen groups generally.
Kpop idols are really really strong people fr cause fans can be so mean and demanding
I remember one period when Felix was in Australia and did a dance move/ or like a symbol of throwing cigarettes on the floor and some people went crazy mean over it
Guess i can bring in my own experiences into this!
As the youngest child who's also on the autism spectrum, i dislike when my parents don't trust me to make adult ish decisions. im now a young adult and they still pretty much treat me like a child even tho i personally am maturing as a person.
Whenever i see someone turn down their role as an innocent member, that does remind me of my own experiences and kinda would wish there was a way where we don't need to have group member personas to still be able to market the group effectively! Maybe there might be a way to do this so ill keep my head up about this!
Luv ya fran 💙💙💙
The innocent image meaning itself sounds like someone who is pure and his younger era in life but kpop fans are doing the exact opposite like sexualizing them more how does it make sense and I'm very thankful of renjun because I got to know about they're given some roles to portray on screen and I like how outspoken he is about
No one will convince me the innocent concept in Kpop is genuinely innocent the way IDK whip my hair by Willow Smith was, theres so much damn innuendo and sexuality in the songs and music videos aswell as the clothes especially girls literally dressing in less clothes than the other girls while alot being underage and having an adult fanbase
It literally feels like a genre for young kids and pedos to gather towards
Isn’t whip my hair about dancing or telling peoples how you’re the shit basically
Thanks for talking about this.. this infantilizing is also the root cause of massive hatred and idol faces when they get caught smoking or dating.. they are also adults and humans like the rest of us.
I've found that kpop assigned personality types resemble some anime/manga personality types and I believe this innocent type might be the lolita type perhaps but it is just a theory. You have the tsundere type otherwise and J-Hope is the genki aka sunshine type, I think it might be where they pulled the archetypes from.
Renjun, Jaemin and Yuta reminded me countless times that they are not kids anymore. 😂
Yuta never acted innocent though 😭😭 He's being making dirty jokes since debut lmao
The whole idol industry is just creepy, let's be completely honest. Dressing up people & calling them idols & expecting them to never date or fall in love & then expecting them to pretend to date each other or "almost kiss" each other on camera... that's some creepy stuff. It's why I am a fan of individual artists & songs, not whole groups or companies. I can't get past the nonsense to exist as a fan on the fringes who refuses to belong to some fandom worshipping "idols". Nope.
As someone who has abit if a baby face, i completely understand the struggle, to a lesser extent. Ppl dont sexualize me in the way they do these idols but they do baby me, nd it doesnt help that i was sheltered for most of my life so i dont gt alot of things socially. But they do come at me like im just some kid who doesnt know about anything, like....i live on the same planet as you, and am a human being. I have experiences just like you, just because i dont do the things you do or have this face doesnt mean im an innocent uwu baby.
I dislike when the marketing if an idol is successful and people take it like its fact,hes innocent so he doesnt know about sex? Lets be so serious now guys.
Shinee's manager or ceo or whatever you call it was 'Min-heejin' herself
Who is that
@@febengetachew9765 the CEO of ador the subsidiary under hybe which manages nwjns
She was a creative director who worked with I think most sm groups
@@brennathecatlover4360 idk about that but she was surely shinee's creative director... "The sexualization of lee taemin" is a video on CZcams I highly suggest you to watch it
And speaking of SM Entertainment, some idols continue to perpetuate their own infantilization well into adulthood. Super Junior has officially hit age 40, but only one or two members are even dating, and aegyo is still frighteningly common from their video ending fairies. And during a cooking show, Leeteuk asked Donghae's preference, and his response of "I like innocence" was a little creepy, since most women lose their "innocence" sometime around age 18, and Donghae is over 35.
More suju members could be dating but choose to keep it private tho. And innocent isn’t necessarily a creepy thing and there are adults that are more of the cute wants to be taken care of which I assume is what he means
Innocence is subjective. Someone called me innocent just because I don't know anything about drugs. Innocence doesn't always mean that and im sure most women don't lose it at 18😅
Jungkook got so much backlash for expressing his more adult side. Especially from long time ARMYs. When he does his spur of the moment we-lives, and he's having a drink, the number of "quit drinking alcohol" and "go to bed/it's past your bedtime", etc. comments were overwhelming. Add the explicit lyrics of Seven and 3-D, and it just got worse. Luckily, Jungkook isn't shy about putting people back in their own lane, and expressed his views very clearly (and incredibly politely) on these issues. Essentially, he said, "I'm not a baby. I'm a grown man." I'm pretty sure I gave him a standing ovation, in my living room, during these times. He will always be the maknae, but he is also a 27 year old young man, who happens to be very attractive, and he's going to do attractive, 27 year old, young man things.
I would agrue that Jimin as has this image but for some reason it's like more sexualized. Like the whole kitty gang thing, ppl acknowledgethat he has a baby face and is cute, then turn around and make it overly sexualized. Which not to mention, Jimin as said that he acts all cutesy on purpose bc the fans and he doesn't actually behave like that fr
Let's be real, what adult acts like that in real life?
I dont even want to imagine what Taemin has been through behind the scenes.
I personally do not think that Jungkook solo music was hard to accept for some due to the sexual content or because he is the groups youngest member but because he felt the need to due such content to prove his adulthood. While also trying to label it as a love song.Sexual content does not prove that you are older or mature, he could have still done a song with sexual innuendos without it being vulgar and those who are old enough would have still gotten the point. A lot of people including myself felt that it deviated so far from what BTS has been singing about all of these years and his own cover songs. He when from songs of love with BTS to telling his predominately female fan base that he will f*ck them right seven days a week. You can say that without the profanity unless his point was to avoid the topic of love altogether and to insure he charted overseas because apparently westerners/ Americans like this type of music at the direction of Scooter Braun?? Look up the definition of f*ck and you will see why I have a problem with it. It has NOTHING to do with love like JK repeatedly stated but more like a one night stand concept. I think we hear it so much we have become so desensitized to the actually meaning while some have no idea what it means. Not to mention that while they were still rookies RM had to apologize for the misogynistic lyrics in the song “War of Hormone” who’s lyrics were mild compared to JKs. Nine years later there are some that will accept even worse lyrics from a seasoned idol who knows better but knew it would go over well because his fan base will accept anything from him simply because he is JK from BTS.
Just had to reply to this. Not all Americans/Westerners like music with explicit lyrics . As for JK's 7 song, I listen to the clean version. I actually have listened to all the guys of BTS solo music and all of them except Jin and Taehyung curse in their songs. They are artists and are expressing themselves as such. Some will like it and some will not. The fact is they are grown men with emphasis on Men and because they are no longer boys are putting out music that are them individually. People are allowed to grow up and express themselves however they want. It's sad these artists can't truly be themselves without harsh and down right cruel people under the guise as fans ridiculing them and being downright bullies. My heart goes out to them. When I read or hear about an idol committing suicide it breaks my heart. The pressure they go through is beyond crazy. Just my thoughts.
Fans barely give him any credit for his talents and manners.....They always bring his hyungs as if they solely trained him or something...Honestly Jk is an ace since the beginning and honestly his hyungs actuallly are the ones who depend on him in most of the cases....Jk even said that he barely ask for their advice or help. Even his solo career success is being credited to his hyungs like wtf😂.....these people are just dumb because any mature person would understand that Jk had always been independent since his childhood, his parents gave him that freedom to choose his path....Jk himself chose to join in bighit rejecting other companies based on his own opinions at the age of 12, THIS ITSELF IS ENOUGH TO SHOW HOW INDEPENDENT HE WAS😂 But these dumbos😂....He had been the main vocalist, lead dancer, center, sub rapper since 2013, he does most of the grp's guide tracts, background vocals and the members even take his help for their own songs😂😂 and these dumb fans still have the audacity to discredit him....shame on the delulus
@ERICASHANNON ikr
I personally have not seen any fans credit to the older members for JK’s manner’s or talent but even JK has said several times that he is a mixture of all 6 of them and they taught him how it be and made him the person he is today. So if some fans have given credit to them that could be why. If JK is an ace then so are the other 6 members. They also refined and found their own strengths to become better artist and are successful at everything they do. I also have not seen anyone credit his solo success to anyone but Scooter Braun because if we are honest he did EVERYTHING from the creation of the album to getting the songs, Even BangPD said this in a interview that JK was not interested in doing an album until Scooter Braun convinced him and they both started to source the songs and working on the PR for the album. As a result JK has no credits on his solo album but neither does V. This is not criticism but the truth. This was said by BangPD himself in an interview a few months ago. While JK was giving the choice of what agency to sign with he was still a minor and need his parents permission to do so since he was only 13, it is also well known that JK signed with Bighit because of RM which he has stated many times who he knew before auditioned at Bighit and that he wanted to be where ever RM was so that does not really show his maturity nor independence for decision making. He also stated in one of the documentaries and the book Beyond the Story that he auditioned at multiple labels “for fun”. Yes JK does most of the guides for BTS songs and backgrounds but so does Jimin and Jin. He is not used exclusively for this, in a lot of songs without a good pair of noise cancelling headphones you could easily miss Jimin’s background vocals but he is there just as much as JK. In the most recent songs Run BTS and Take Two Jimin’s background vocals stand out just as much if not more than JK’s at some parts of the songs. As far as JK helping the other members with their songs, they all help each other out or at least ask for feedback so again this is not unique to only JK. The only thing that I am aware of that he can be credited with on any member’s solo is for vocals. I have never seen writing credits or producing or any other credits to JK on any other of the member’s solo songs. But I could be wrong and the only one I can think of where he has vocal credits is Jimin’s Letter and one of Hobi’s soon to be release song on Hope On The Street. Again my comments are not to be taken negatively. All of the members are successfully as a group and as individuals and they all made the decision to sign with BigHit instead of other agency’s for different reasons. How they got here and the individual journeys they decide to take will continue to push them forward. I just felt like alot if facts and truth was missing from your original post. You embellished quite a bit based from your opinions and not the actual facts.
In short Jungkook is narcissist and is a player
longer videos would be so good!!!!
IU is another perfect example, she’s always and still is very infantilized. It makes me very sad.
It's sad that these things still happen. These days companies literally debut minors. 10-12 years ago this wasn't that common, but it still happened with cases like Taemin or the whole NCT Dream too. I hope that in the future, this doesn't exist.
But the worst of it,is how the fans just simply accept it.
I'd love to see longer videos
I really like your videos and editing style i like how you dont add any music while youre talking it makes me more focused and relaxed
I love this type of analysis. I'll also watch the mysterious persona video after this one
Thank you so much, i'm so glad you like this style of videos! 🥰
Isnt this like, 99% of kpop girl groups? I think this makes it clear what the motive is behind this.
The problem with Jungkook is the fans’ complete refusal of authority and agency. He’s been the main vocalist, center, lead dancer and one of the main contributors to BTS discography since debut. But any praise he gets will immediately be attributed to his hyungs who “raised” him (when they were kids as well). ARMY will coo at him and call him baby etc but completely forget how hard he worked and pushed himself. If he’s polite, it’s hyungs. If he’s overworked, it’s his fault. He’s always whiny, cute, innocent, helpless baby who needs his big brothers everywhere in their eyes. It’s frustrating and borderline manipulative. Army have been using Jungkook to uplift the other older members for years now, even though he’s a 26 years old man. And that’s why I’m so proud of Jungkook for standing up for himself and slapping those creepy armys with sex, maturity and explicitness. He deserves to be himself.
JK IS THE PROTECTED OF THE COMPANY AND I WOULD ALMOST TELL YOU THE BOSS OF BTS. WE LOVE KIM TAEHYUNG ♥ FOR US THE BEST
That last sentence is gold lol. "slapping them with sex" 😂😂😂
First video of yours I have seen and you definitely gained a subscriber! The amount of thought and detail you put into this video is amazing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions whilst also respecting other people thoughts and opinions! 🙌💜
I would also enjoy longer videos since I am fan of everything you do so I would support regardless. It really is the infantilization of idols that makes me the most uncomfortable. This happens a lot lately especially with maknaes like Eunchae from Lesserafim, Hyein from NewJeans, Kyujin from NMIXX & Lesseo from IVE. If Idols had more freedom to be themselves personality-wise less of this would happen. Also, minors shouldn't be debuting mos of the time. Thanks again for these videos, Fran. 💟🥰✌️
Juxtaposing the 5th gen experience of ZB1s 17 yr old maknae Han Yujin its very interesting as there is zero self-expectation of him to maintain an innocent image, having said that ofcourse virtue of him being 17 years old automatically him not being an adult the zerose fandom self polices on treating him appropriately but he certainly doesnt limit his own image actively engaging in adult dance challenges which ironically include his fave Taemins Guilty...his Members baby him as recently as his 20 March bday live but his personality & image is very serious with members also joking he is quite militant when it come to dance practice & group schedules & already being invited to guest MC solo on the Inkigayo music show... He doesnt have a baby face, he doesnt have a babyesque persona, but he is only 17...most older zerose see him as a younger brother, son, nephew etc...thankfully its his same age fans that might para socialize him as their boyfriend...& May it remain that way!💪🙏
I'm so glad this video particularly addressed this issue, I'm quite new to the kpop world and a casual listener to most groups but I had this thing in the back of my mind going for so long.. I love Stray Kids' music and the members, but really gives me the ick how some fans .. (arguably) treat some of the members, specially Felix: he's infantilised a lot.. really. I get it might be his facial features bc he does look a bit younger (20-21) but some peopoe go over the top, treating him as a child, enhancing his "innocence" and even calling him baby (which he has sarcastically made fun of, in some cases) which I get he's quite uncomfortable with, since he's a 23 year old man. The same goes with Bang Chan, when he wrote/produced some lightly explicit songs some fans pressured him to "explain" himself.. of course he laughed it off in some way and as well, made fun of it with sarcastic replies. He's 26... come on... They're all grown men, this is plain stupid.
This was a very interesting video and the fact that they force idols to have this pure and innocent image forever is one of the scariest things of all. Like how do you expect an adult to keep that shit intact? it's so sick...
People always thought I was “innocent” b/c I had a baby face. I was in some ways but I was also really wise about things but no one knew cause they thought I was the sheltered baby 🥲
Maybe it's just me, but I get so annoyed when they try to push that image on to Huening Kai. I just feel like he's old enough now and we can all let that cute innocent image of him go. I believe it's limiting him tbh.
Absolutely love this video and I someone who is the same age as jungkook Who has a baby face and has always been seen as sweet and innocent I definitely feel like it’s a society thing as much as it is clearly an industry thing, but I feel like the biggest issues that people kind of always affiliate the way someone physically looks with their personality, and even when they see their personalities completely different, they don’t change the way that they view that person.
And it absolutely sucks because at this point, I have just accepted the fact that this is probably going to just be my reality like sometimes you can do something physically to change that but even then I feel like it’s never guaranteed because some people are just set in their way so if you look this way, and you came off this way at one point and that’s just how you’re always going to be to them. I said who’s under 5 feet tall And has quite a few tattoos myself and I definitely don’t feel like I dress or make myself look a certain way, but because of my small stature and my baby face regardless of what I’m wearing or what I’m doing people will stil act as a talking to or dealing with a child. Not only is it frustrating but it also gets weird after a while and if something that has someone who has been a hip-hop for over a decade and then some I’ve called and I talk to other fans about it and the funny thing is, I don’t even think of these fans realize they’re doing it.
I’ve had conversations with fans of quite a few, and even a few of the groups and stuff mentioned in this video where, genuinely until you have a conversation with them about how weird it is, and asking them why they treat them that way. It doesn’t even click in their brain that they’re doing it half of the time. Some of them are just completely unhinged and it’s more of the like the idea of someone being here to hold onto that innocence that sweetness that pure image And I do think part of it is projecting. I feel like some fans like to project that it’s perfectly OK or fly to be adult and still have this like innocent or cute image, because some fans do come off that way like they naturally happen to just be more innocent and pure, even though they’re like grown adults, and they. Enjoy being able to see other people who are like that even if it is just an image, and they will refuse to allow for that idol to shake that image off because that’s who they’re clinging onto prove that there’s nothing wrong with them being that way.
Then you have others where it draws them in because they have this weird outlook on life where not enough people come off as pure or innocent, or having such a clean, reputation or look or whatever it may be. And part of it depending on where we’re talking about, especially with the grow group is a little bit of fetishization , I feel like a lot of people forget how bad it is in Asia, when it comes to the ideal type for most men and what is advertises being the ideal type of sin, who was born in an Asian country and lives into them before going to America I’m telling you the amount of Creepy men regardless of their age that if you ask what their ideal type is, they were like legitimately basically describe a teenage girl is scary.
And companies are aware of this I feel like off-topic. It’s one of the reasons why there are a lot of not just international fans, but even some in Asia, who are concerned with how young idols were getting when they gave you because the women are aware of what the men like and we’re also aware of how companies will go about promoting. It doesn’t have to be overly sexual matter fact, most sexy concepts, or mature concepts that grow groups did Garnish the more female fans. Great example of this is twice they had primarily male fans and a male fan based up until they start switching their music around, probably during the fancy era where the music and they’re styling, especially started changing the garnish more female fans now they’re at a point where they actually have more slightly more female fans than they have male fans, because again, a big chunk of their male fans not all, but a lot of them, especially the ones from Asia likes them because of the innocence That sweet cute innocent vibe that they have. It’s the same reason why I took so long for a group like Apink stop doing such a cute concept. They’re one of their biggest songs was.Nonono and it was huge because of how sweet and innocent and cute it was, and surprisingly a majority of the people who ended up enjoying that song and that come back the most were male fans.
And we are aware that this can be a thing for female and it’s just not as big of a thing for most female fam basis. But I also think that’s because most of the time from what I’ve seen and what I’ve experienced myself, most people who get employee get into them for the music, but also personalities I feel like personalities are slightly more important to the basis of Boyband because I’ve seen people get into groups like NCT, Enhyphen, BTS GOT7 based off of the personalities of the members Saul member like their vibe like a personality, then decided to check out the group and then was like OK the music‘s good or they like the music off and then that was it. That is finding them attractive, and I also find that a lot of fans normally find the super innocent ones as attractive, which I think makes slightly more sense because again, I feel like it’s the biggest difference of how men and women perceive attractiveness and perceive people while women do tend to hear towards more androgynous looking guys not all the time but a good chunk of the time it’s never because they’re innocent it’s just someone who is like stupidly, pretty/handsome all at the same time type of vibes, which is why I think that there are certain groups where their fan bases tend to be slightly younger or around the age that the members are and then you have as they get older they might start growing in more older fans, etc. whatever when it comes to boy groups.
I definitely remember the comment about Jungkook working out because it went viral on tumblr back in like 2015 or 2016. I just can't remember where it was said
Great video! Definitely some things i agree with. However i could argue in reality it is not innocent image but “cutie sexy” image that is the main goal. When idols are JK or Lisa are criticised it is because they are acting “too” sexy or “adult like” sexy. This is in complete contract with portrayals of “cutie sexy” you seen in songs like Cookie by NewJeans or Smart performance by LSF (group with a minor). Idols that are young “innocent” + “sexy” are more liked rather than “pure” sexy even in bg, you can see this with the sexualisation of NIKI by his own fanbase. Another example would be one of Wonyoung’s famous dance covers “side by side” which was too inappropriate for her at 16 but it contributed to her popularity
I'd love longer videos! Yeah it's hard to not like the cutesy stuff.. Even if they don't like it
I’ve never been into K-pop (I grew up on the old “emo” scene P!ATD, FOB, MCR, Metro Station, etc so I liked that vibe) cause most of what people tried showing me was too pastel and cutesy for me. Then last year August (so I’m still somewhat new) CZcams recommended me a short of Chan and Hyun talking about making Red Lights and it intrigued me so I looked up the video. I was immediately into the song and the video, their personalities made me wanna watch it and the video was great. I found out who they were and looked up more songs and found out about the rest of the boys. Felix had not long after become my bias and I was dragged into the K-pop world from that one video, I fell down a rabbit hole of SKZ stuff and loved how they matched my vibe. Yeah they have a few cutesy songs but they still have that same vibe that my “emo” bands had growing up. I would watch random performances and mvs and fan videos, then I found the Wolf performance from Kingdom and all their other Kingdom performances and the more I watched it, the more I wondered who tf that was that Lix ran and jumped onto their knees. Found out that’s Wooyoung annnnd not long after I was googling him figuring out who he was and that started the Ateez obsession 😂😂 and Woo is my bias. Han, San, and Mingi are my main wreckers. The whole point of this is that I definitely prefer the “harder” less innocent and cutesy vibes though I don’t mind it if they do it here and there. They have the best personalities and I just want them to be them. I also got into Jungkook cause 7 was on the radio and it sounded good as hell (I’m not a BTS fan) and then I found out about his tattoos and piercings and was interested cause I looooove tattoos (Trace Cyrus from Metro Station has been one of my crushes since I was in middle school if you wanna see what I mean lol).
That is one of the thing, I liked about Katy Perry, she refused to let any labels integrate her into anything she wasn't comfy with
Once young idols who were assigned this image grow up and decide to present themselves in a more mature way, there is some pushback by some "fans" :/
LONGER VIDEOSSSS WOOOOO! 🥳🥳🥳
IM SO EXCITED THAT YOU'RE EXCITED, THANK YOU SO MUCH!🥺💖💖
I wouldn't mind longer videos at all! Talk until you've said all you want to say.
The variety show instances piss me off.
Please please please do the taemin video you said
Also the WGM show that he has done and how people backlash him for that and i read that even recently people didn't like guilty and backlash him for this too so if you can please do more research and tell us , i will be waiting ❤
Something like that happens with Yeosang from Ateez. He really likes exercising and his company and some fans told him to not have too many muscles because his image won't fit with it. C'mmon! He should decide how his body will be, not a company or fans :/
IMO he looked fine and the bulking up made him look even better, so i was shocked when he was banned from visiting the gym because it "wouldn't fit his image".
He has always been known as a caring introverted person who rarely gets angry and especially known for his "sculpture face" as he is really pretty for the KBS. At the beggining of his career fans said he looked like a maltease, later on he declared he is a doberman yet some still kept insisting him as a maltease.
Recently Ateez got their animal characters and I was a little annoyed when I saw Yeo's character to seem to look like a maltease but them he stated that the character is an albino baby doberman.
Hopefully KQ takes more into consideration his opinion in the future.
I'll be 32 years old soon and ALL my life, even until now, I've been told I have an "innocent" look about me. But once people get to know me, they find out I am the COMPLETE opposite of "innocent". So really, people shouldn't be deceived by looks and that includes Kpop fans towards their favorite Kpop idols.
Jungkook was supposed to be the young boy and not do the gym training he wanted to do while Jimin was supposed to be the one with the muscles. Neither of them suited their images and moved away from them as soon as they could. They are given a concept and it needs a strong person to go against the agency and choose to be themselves. I think both have succeeded in leaving their original images behind. Jin has openly said that the concept he was given was the opposite of who he was and now that he is himself he feels so much better. I find it uncomfortable to watch a lot of the girl groups because of the sexy schoolgirl image they are having to project. This is playing into a none too healthy male fantasy.
I guess that the innocent and younger image is a marketing necessity to catch younger fans.
Tws and vcha comes to mind.
I have realatives in their same age range they usually like more daring aspirations / adult liberties then this groups image is, but to get the even younger fans having this more young then their years maybe more effective.
So their aim inst much of their peers, younger for a more long lasting carrer. With a big sister / brother image for the kids and a cutsy younger vibe for older fans. Is what I also get from new jeans.
A little cultural shock was when I learn that txt and anitta ( brazilian artist that did a collab with them) have similar ages and the contart between her sexy comcept, that I ve know for longer, and their sexy-less (lower) discography.
How different does each culture express their youth values. Here in Brazil beatifull, energetic, sexy, passionated / hurtfull fleating love.
And my impression that in korea / japan is more about the naive, hopefull, uncorrupted, cheerfull, uncomplicated.
i would put aesgyo in () for infantilization - aegyo is a normal thing in kr as far as i know, you'll see couples/parents/gandparents do aegyo to their partner - it is a very normal thing thats why its popular in kpop bc its a part of their lifestyle kind of ig?
Thats what i know
Honestly there’s so much that Taemin could definitely have his own video. A whole nightmare.
I notice its interesting that most idols assigned innocent idols are typically young. Perhaps the idea is that, if they stay young looking, and keep a young personality until their older, they hopefully wont atttract too many older people. I always thought it was to try and reducw people sexualizing young idols
Taemin really suffered this innocent image made of him in the military, when he was ogled by other soldiers in the shower being described as "a beautiful teenage girl", this is disturbing in so many levels! From sexualization and invasion of personal privacy to borderline pedophiles tendencies, those 28 yo men should be in jail! I'm so glad he got out of SM, they completely failed him during his mandatory service. If I could protect him from all evil in the world I would (SHINee, the BTS and SVT boys are like family)! We know he could only endure what looked like pure torture cuz of key, minho and Onew who kept constantly by his side whenever they were allowed and monitoring him all the time, real brothers. The truth is the world is ugly everywhere
I love Taemin and Jung Kook. I’m very proud of them for persevering despite such troubles. The entertainment industry in general can be absolutely gruesome, and K-pop is no exception. They are grown now, creating their music and expressing themselves as they wish. Way to go, Maknaes 🌹
NOt a innocent image as such, but i remember way back Heechul from Super Junior i think it was talking bout the image sm wanted him to portray
4:29 literally disturbing
@DearYoongi... you.... are.... MAGNIFICENT!!! I'm so excited to have going your channel 😭 it's like an oasis in the KPop desert where I live. I want to share some stuff with you about future content but I don't do Twitter. Is there some way for me to message you using CZcams? (Surprise - I'm an old person)
helloo, aw thank you so much for such a lovely message! 😁 unfortunately there isn't really a message feature on CZcams, you're more than welcome to send me anything here in the comments if you're happy to share publicly! I have Instagram too (@dearyoongiYT) but I understand a lot of people don't really use Insta.
Or you can pop me over an email at dearyoongi@hotmail.com if you'd rather chat privately! 💖
no because people thing maknes in kpop have an automatic baby like personality or smth and when they don't people call them cold and stuff something similar happened with Jongho
They think maknaes are dumb innocent toddlers who can’t fend for themselves
It’s so contrary. Some fans love the innocent images. The companies play it up and encourage it. Then guess what these idols grow up and want to show themselves as grown up. Then some people get upset. Some of the bigger groups like BTS have more power now and can stand up for the real them. Personally I find it very disturbing and creepy that some of the girl groups are expected to dress up as young girls and do the whole cutsie thing in their performances. The KPop industry really has to change in some ways.
Where's L of infinite? 🤔
The cabaret thing with Lisa didn't really seem like it had anything to do with her maknae position or innocence since she was already known for sexy dance and money, it was just misogyny and slut shaming over it being "too trashy" for a female idol to perform there
I feel like sexual fetishiziation of idols by female fans is so normalized in kpop, like if same what female kpop fans do to male idols, a male fan did to girl groups the outrage would be unimaginable
That was interesting and well-made, so yes, you can increase your length without problem ;)
Thank you so much, that's amazing to hear! 😁
im glad 2ne1's minzy wasnt put into innocent character esp her clothes and their music...im never fond of cute concept its feel so weird and cringe it can def attract online creeps
But Minzy has said that she was unhappy about being forced into the tomboy character. As with all teenage girls there was times when she wanted to try make-up and different outfits, and was shut down.
@@user-xf2vf9wn5j 100x better than miniskirts and handkerchief tops, she wasnt sexualized
@@playamelodythateverybodyknows It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. I'm was a tomboy, but there were a few occasions during the year when I wanted to dress up and wear heels (even if I fell down). It must be painful to never be listened to. To have your voice on both the minor and major issues ignored and dismissed. YG does not deserve praise here.
If the Kpop scene would really see that the sweet cute like attitude is not what the fans want. We want them sexy, in revealing clothes and dating each other. The labels have it wrong.
People GROW UP!! Its natural,can't be stopped,and is completely normal...let idols decide for themselves who they want to be & how they want to act...its not right to force anyone to behave or act younger or older than they are or in any way other than how they themselves choose to. Its never right to control others decisions or tell others who they have to be or behave or force others to be untrue to themselves.we live in a day & age where we as humans have the ability to learn from past mistakes and actually create positive changes in mindsets and behaviors,modern technology provides us with tons of information to learn from...there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for this behavior!!! This is wrong...period.we must stop treating idols like they are only a brand or image or object to control...they are freaking PEOPLE,like regular thoughts,feelings,and growth.just appreciate the gifts they give us and respect them.A TRUE fan and a decent human would never treat someone they look up to or admire this way. A real fan would want their idols to be happy,healthy,and in control of their own lives & image.please respect people idols or not.ALL humans are entitled to at least that much.✌
Please make longer videos
I'd love to, thank you so much!
Leeseo and eunchae too
TAEMINNIE JUNGKOOKIE WHERE DID U GO!!!!!!!111 👹👹
This whole K pop industry is insane 😂
I don’t see how a strip show is considered tasteful. 🙄
Thank you for reminding me that Jungkook is an adult. Yes, I was one of the people who was mad about his song 7. However the reason why I'm no longer ARMY is the fandom. That's it.
Also Jaemin, Yuta and all of the members of NCT 127 and NCT Dream reminded me that they are adults. More groups that should be seen as adults now are TXT, Stray Kids, Seventeen and EXO. Even HueningKai of TXT have to act innocent and I know that deep inside he hates it.
I hate agyeo. I never understood it.
korean tv hosts are so dissapointing a lot of time
Sickening