(im sorry that most times the word 'Kep1er' appears on screen throughout this video it's stylised without the 1 btw...I swear it's in there but my cute font didn't approve! 🥺)
Honestly, Wakeone thinking "let's promote Kep1er badly so the companies have no choice but to keep the group together because the individual members aren't popular enough to start popular groups with" is hilariously diabolical. If they did it on purpose, I would kind of respect it lol I hope we do actually officially get a Kep1er extension. They've become one of my favorite groups. Even if Mashiro and Yeseo leave, the rest of the members staying together would be great.
It’s not a powermove WakeOne is the dumbest company ever they rather want to keep their girl groups in nugudom and have those groups eat all their money for what? Wake One is so petty against their girl groups they shouldn’t even make another girl group but i guess Wake One just likes getting bankrupted by making another girl group that wont make them money cause of their incompetence to promote and treat them properly
It's just sad that they'd stay under w1 who is impressively incompetent at managing groups considering that that's the main thing they do (overall CJ labels just tend to suck in a "bad at managing" way I've never seen from other companies - it often times feels as if the people involved in the groups have no idea on how to create a kpop group - literally randomly swapping out members of TOO/TO1 (a survival show btw) and seemingly not caring on giving Kep1er any kind of identity and the pacing around zb1s Japanese debut to their other cbs was just odd and they just seem to refuse a bunch of the members in a more profitable way but instead openly mismanage Ricky and give the member an incredibly disportionate amout of screentime (especially Taerae and Gunwook - the two are from CJ companies and are heavily speculated to end up in groups of them - pretty likely the same which will either be under Jellyfish or w1 with some EVNNE members since the other Jellyfish trainees seem to have left / forgotten by their company)
its hilariously hard to believe that too. if zerobaseone or even Yuri were an astronomical success, at least we would have concrete proof that wakeone truly knows how to get there, even if that weren't true and it was all nothing more than a stroke of luck. but reality doesn't lie. both kep1er and zerobaseone share a similar viewership base here on CZcams and as far as I know, zerobaseone has more traction in the Korean market, which is to be expected from a boy group and from a group formed on a show. Yuri, on the other hand, has never surpassed her 15 mi captives since her solo debut, even though she has above average vocal quality. it seems that wakeone is absolutely incompetent in getting their artists to surpass 50 million spectators in a stable way. for me, the overall quality of kepler's comebacks since lovestruck has improved in ways I honestly would never have expected, but I think it's highly unlikely that wakeone will change or improve the management of the group with 7 members.
the entire concept of "success" is so warped in kpop. kep1er *is* successful. there are so many girls and groups who would kill to have even their "meager" sales and fans.
I think how you talked about different members having different opportunities is hitting the nail right on the head some of the members, especially the older members because of the unfortunate ageism of K-pop have much more limited opportunities than the younger ones
@@thethingcalledlisa that’s also a part of it. This isn’t the sound mean but some of the members are just so much more popular than the other members so they probably have a lot more opportunities or options than the less popular ones.
Honestly even though people call them flops they're popular in Japan. I'm pretty sure they sell out shows and the Japanese market can be a money maker which is why companies do releases there
I don't even know why Wakeone hasn't taken advantage of Kep1er's massive popularity in Japan yet. They have Japanese releases, sure, but I feel like the Japanese market should be their main focus at this point. Kep1er could potentially become the Kara of 4th-5th gen if Wakeone play their cards rights.
@@mariunfabregas7533 i feel like they've focusing alot on the J market lately with their latest release Kep1going album, they've done more shows than the previous comeback but i do agree that they should send them to variety shows over there more..
by the time kep1er's potential final 3 day concert tour is done in mid july which is being held at the same 20k venue in japan kep1er would have had 19 concerts or fan meets which were basically concerts in terms of ticket prices & sales after all that the final tickets sold for those shows would be over 200k ... that's about 10.5k attendance per show when you add up the revenue from tickets and all the merchandise sold at those live shows, kep1er i'd guess has made quite a lot of money just in japan activities alone that also doesn't even include their 4 japan releases as their most recent japanese album sold 120k+ in it's first week of release recently, they are the only second 4th gen girl group to sell 100k for a japanese album and in total i think their 4 japan releases will have sold over 300k+ albums although i've read profits for album sales for kpop groups & or artists bring in less revenue than brand deals & touring ... and again kep1er has done very well with the latter in japan specifically a lot don't understand how big japan is for kpop acts who aren't that that popular in south korea which is what kep1er is mainly due to them being the first kpop group formed from an mnet survival show after the produce scandal as i truly think they were blackballed or black listed domestically in south korea & no matter what koreans weren't going to support the group as a whole japan & international touring but japan specifically in this instance is a life line for a lot of small & mid tier kpop groups who can still earn good money in that country which again has likely been the case for kep1er these last 2.5 years since debut
I feel like a detail that’s often omitted is that these girls were thrown into another survival show (queendom) too early into their career. They didn’t have any advantage during the competition, and when they got out it only worsened their case. It is a very special case, because no survival show group happened to participate into a second one following their formation. I think this impacted heavily their standing amongst peers, who got to grow their fanbases and quickly release follow-ups to their debut, while kep1er were stuck fighting established female artists with only 6 songs under their belt…
those two songs are my favorite songs in general, idk why their bsides are so much better than their titles (minus up! i love it too much to say anything bad lol)
WK1 is in a weird spot i would say not bc of Kep but bc of i-land 2. The group that will be formed under that show will likely be under WK1. And, the group will have a normal contract length. Meaning 7 years. So, if Kep continues, let's say until the end of the year. WK1 could possibly two girl groups under their label at the same time. I feel like this is something not many are thinking about with Kep maybe continuing past July.
They will also manage a new group that is produced by the BLACKLABEL I think? So two new hyped rookie gg. Yeah no chance for Kep1er. Even if I'm wrong just the Iland group will kill every hype Kep1er had left.
They kinda had two bgs at the same time ... kinda ... sorry to TO1 but they were pretty much rotting in some random corner for the second half of their career (especially after some members leaving)
Even though I still feel like it WK1 isn’t fully capable of managing Kep1er, I-land2 GG, and ZB1. WK1 is being merged with Swing Entertainment next month. I feel like they decided to merge the two companies to increase the amount of people to “better” market and manage the groups.
im surprised hiyyih's company decided to stay, shes the one member that has a really strong solo fan base that would make a new group or solo career successful. i can totally see the other members staying tho, especially yujin and xiaoting who are "older" to be a rookie (which i hate)
Her fan base is so divisive that they’re probably worried what would happen - it would be a huge gamble. Also, after how she’s been treated by fans etc she might not even want to continue in the industry - in which case she would be useless to the company outside of Kepler…
I could think of a couple of reasons why they let Bahiyyih stay in Kep1er. 1. Her company probably doesn't want to put her in a group after seeing how her solo stans acted during her time in Kep1er. Boycotting Kep1er several times, constantly calling for Kep1er's disbandment, actively hating on the other members, etc. Bahiyyih's company is small, and I doubt they have the resources to make a successful girlgroup. If the group they debut Bahiyyih in turns out to be unsuccessful (which it most likely would), her solo stans would most likely start an uproar, sabotage their new girlgroup and possibly cripple their already-small company. 2. Soloists tend to not do as well as groups do. The only successful soloists in K-pop are those with a solid fanbase in Korea like Izone's Yuri, which Bahiyyih doesn't have. Her fanbase are mostly international fans. If you look at soloists who rely on international fans, like Sunmi and Chungha, they kinda fell off when they stopped releasing hits since international K-pop stans are less loyal to soloist idols. 3. Bahiyyih's onl real chance of success in Korea would be to sign with a bigger label like Hybe. It's understandable that her company would rather profit from her through Kep1er than to give her up completely. 4. It's not likely that Hybe would sign her like her stans expect. Hybe is in shambles right now, and I really don't think a corporation like Hybe would be willing to take the risk of debuting a new girlgroup just for one idol from a semi-successful girlgroup like Kep1er. Bahiyyih most likely already realized this and decided that staying in Kep1er would be the safest option for her to continue having a career in Korea.
@@mariunfabregas7533 I completely understand these reasons, but I would not call IST "small." They were formerly known as Play M Entertainment before the name change. They're home to The Boyz, Weeekly, Victon ATBO, and formerly Apink. The Boys and Apink in particularly were pretty successful. They are also a Kakao subsidiary. Due to this, I would consider them mid-tier. If Bahiyyih resigns to extend her activities with Kep1er, it's likely because she wanted too. The members have expressed multiple times that they want to stay together. IST held auditions last year for female trainees, so I suspect the trainees aren't debut ready yet, so a contract extension would be convenient for both Bahiyyih to continue activities and IST to finish up training for the members of their new girl group, or for her to build her skills for a solo debut (although I don't see her debuting solo, personally). I also think fans overestimate the importance of solo stans and their whining. While Bahiyyih's Solo stans are annoying and mean to other members of Kep1er, many of them desire for her to debut in another group. Only a very small portion see and want her to debut solo. If IST is watching their actions, they'll also be able to see that discourse as well.
I am so happy they agree to not disband. What they need to do is promote Kepler right and give them a good song if they want the group to do better. Well, I am excited that Yeseo and Mashiro will join the limelight. I am sure the company only debuted three girls first because they waiting for Yeseo and Mashiro.
I also do think a huge piece of this puzzle is with the those outside companies! For example with the new boy group zerobaseone (zb1) for some reason, i don't see a contract extension in their future cuz of the companies they are with. In zb1, there are 4/9 members (that in zhanghao, Ricky who i believe is seeing a bunch of popularity in terms of personality from short vid platforms, gyuvin and yujin) in yuehua in which i can see them make another new bg to be the ones that would take hold of tempest's legacy! So i think in the case of zb1, i think it would be less likely to see them extend their time together as a group 🌟
I could kinda see the members stay especially since YH has all of their other BP999 members in different groups so it's also possible that they somehow make both contracts permanent But if that happens I really hope the amount of releases gets dialed down to a normal groups and not a survival show group especially since some of the members would do pretty well releasing more OSTs, solos, acting (especially Jiwoong since he already has experience) etc Also if they disband then EVNNE will do the same and I really hope that Keita doesn't go back to Raincompany and that they Ciipher members do smth better because Rain really shouldn't have groups - he's proven that he'll only care about them for the first bit of time Also YH and w1 seem to have a pretty close bond and half of the groups being under YH probably means they get a big split plus there are only really 3 other companies involved (not counting w1 and Jellyfish who'd keep EVNNE in that situation)
@@thriftskull5549you forget one thing - this is Yuehua we’re talking about. Ive and Leserrafim’s success as post-survival show groups is unprecedented. Up until then, the term ‘survival show curse’ was frequently used because it was very difficult for groups formed with ex-mnet survival show members to find success (Weki Meki, Dia, Ab6ix etc). Of course there were exceptions (Chungha, Kim Sejeong, Jeon Somi etc), but notice how they are all solo artists? Ive and Leserrafim got the success they have because they are both under medium to big size labels. (Starship and Soumu). The only other post mnet idol to also have this is Jeon Somi (the black label). Yuehua’s Korean branch currently has 3 active artists: Choi Yena, Everglow, and Tempest. Yena is doing quite well, but the fandoms of the other two artists always have beef with the company (and for good reasons). The biggest example is Everglow having a three year hiatus for absolutely no explained reason. This is so show that Yuehua does not have a good track record when it comes to their groups (notice how I said ‘active’ groups earlier? Yeah.) The other big fear of the zb1 yh line going back to Yh has to do with Zhang Hao and Ricky. Yuehua’s main branch is in China, where they primarily manage actors. Wang Yibo, formerly of UNIQ, found much much much more success as an actor in China than as a kpop idol. Since then, Yh have sent their Chinese artists to participate in Chinese dramas/variety shows. Normally, this would not be an issue. But this is Yuehua, so while their Chinese members are away, the remaining Korean members will be left twiddling their thumbs (this has happened to Everglow). So while atm, a contract extension with zb1 does not look likely, we’d actually prefer them to stay with wk1. It’s a lesser of two evils situation. Both companies suck, but at least the group dynamic we’ve grown to love would still be together
The problem is, Tempest is an active group in Yuehua, so there shouldn’t be a legacy. But because Yh is doing such a poor job at managing 2 active groups (Tempest and Everglow), adding a potential third group to their roster would probably make things even messier than they already are 😢
@@pidgeongguk8818 yes I understand that’s what some zeroses would want but it’s just not possible in the grand scheme Yuehua is gonna definitely want them back and not extend their contracts! A contract extension is only possible is because Kep1er while still successful is not as successful as Iz*one and zb1 since they are so successful Yuehua is going to want to cash out on the boys 🤷🏽
Im not an industry insider or delver..BUT in my mind Kep1er's lowest album sales are NOT something to scoff of either, specially for a GG. outta my head i think groups such as dreamcatcher and loona never achieved such numbers. And there are a lot of groups out there that would kill or die to get something like that. If all Kep1er members were on the same company it would be easier to analyse...SO the question im thinking is HOW the multiple splits betwen all de companies work??
No one said that the numbers were bad but it's worrying that they continuesly sold worse which is the first sign of you needing to change smth but even when they tried to make small changes it wouldn't work
They sold almost 400k on their debut and barely sold 150k on the last Korean release, their sales dropped by more than half and it's unlikely they'll recover given the group is getting older, also none of their songs except Wa Da Da have charted, they would/will need a viral situation like EXID had with Up&Down to keep the group going.
According to an article I read long ago at Kep1ers debut days (cuz was curious about the same thing) the splits work like this: Wake One covers all the expenses of the group, promotions, food , dorm, concert arragements etc. W1 takes 50% of all the profit and the other 50% are divided among the Kep1er members companies. While 50% divided between 8 companies might sound little, keep in mind this is *pure* profit they get directly in their pockets, they dont have to invest a cent since Wake One pays for everything. As for how much money the girls themselves get paid, we dont know since the contracts arent made public. As far as I know, Wake One is the one who pays the girls, maybe according to the profit made on each album.
I read comments under an instagram post that said that Kep1er would continue and the comments were so rude. "IZ*ONE was more succesful and they deserved it more", "Kep1er should disband", "not deserved" and from Kep1ians i saw "i want them to continue as 9 members", "9 or none"
I am happy for whatever may come for Kep1er. You're totally right about 'older' members wanting to renew to stay active as a group. I am just hoping for better promotion for Kep1er for the members that do decide to extend their contract. Also, do an actual world your and capitalize on their virality in Japan. Always a pleasure to see a new video from you, Fran. 💟🥰✌️
Oh wait. The narrative changed again? Last thing I heard the renewed as 7. Why would people post all these updates with fake news this far and spread wide around twitter? This is insanely stupid and unhelpful for casual listeners. I'm glad I clicked this video, so I understand what is going on!
The unfortunate scenario where a “news source” publishes unconfirmed information, stating it to be true, just so they can get the first clicks on the topic to their website 😭💔
All publicity is good publicity. The same happened with Izone. It gets Kep1er's name in the headlines, and it drums up interest in their last comeback.
@@RasendoriXProduction Interestingly enough that also happened with BoysPlanet - there were news about a group under Jellyfish with the EVNNE members like a few weeks to a month before "BLIT" (now EVNNE) was actually confirmed
Yessss!! I’m so happy that Limelight will be having two new members from Kep1er! Honestly they had been a mess but I’m so happy for the two girls plus I’m so happy for Limelight will being a seven member group 🫶🏼
Yeah, I mean, it will genuinely be super depressing if any of them do end up renewing because it pretty much means the group failed… they didn’t get the individual member success they needed.
i really like your analysis here !! i do just want to say tho, kepi members have had many viral moments, (xiaoting isac, all their kcon covers, hikaru purr fancam, yujin hype boy to name a few:)) but wakeone doesn’t capitalise on these viral moments AT ALL, making them essentially redundant as they had no longevity. i completely agree with ur analysis on why they might survive unlike other produce groups + another reason they never reached the heights they could was because of the insane lineup of ggs debuting in 2022 and w1 refused to promote them at all, let alone to the levels the others were being promoted by their companies !! mainly bc gp999 wasn’t to form kep1er it was to see if bp could be made while the other companies actually wanted their groups to debut lol. which made them not gain as many fans as they could + kpop stans always need their token ‘hated’ group & kepis mismanagement and mistreatment made it all the more easy for them to fall into that role :( great video :) i personally hope they get out of wakeone cause i cannot survive any longer with them under there😭
right! only time theyve done anyhting to promote iconic moments is when they let the girls do the "1 plus 1 equals i miss u too" challenge after it went moderately popular.
Wk1 is just a bad company in general, their management of to1 is a pretty example of that plus rhey will merge with swing in the near future so maybe more staff would help with managing the groups
Many Kep1er fans say that Kep1er is successful in Japan, and that is to a certain extent, true. However I would like to clarify that they are by no means a massive household name. Currently, the most popular ggs in Japan are: - Babymonster and Illit for Magnetic and Sheesh going really really viral - Blackpink, Twice, NewJeans, Aespa, Ive, Lesserafim for consistent success (in that order) The next tier I’d put it is Red Velvet, Itzy, Kep1er, G-idle. To clarify, I live in Japan, and my estimations are based off on 1) How much people actually talk about a gg (especially when it comes to non-kpop fans) 2) Whether they have group specific sections in Tower Records or not. The less successful groups have their albums put into the general ‘kpop shelves’, while bigger groups have their own dedicated section. The first 8 groups I mentioned are guaranteed to have their own section, regardless of location. The next 4 in my experience, haven’t been consistent. They are certainly considered successful, sure! But when people mention Kep1er’s Japanese success, some people might be overestimating just how popular they are here. But the most popular gg at the moment is definitely ME:I, the group that debuted from Produce Japan a few months ago.
Kep1er does actually have their own section in some Japanese music stores and there was even banners promoting the new Kep1going album and I’d say they’re up there with TWICE in terms of popularity in Japan
@@Matt..- I'm not really convinced that Kep1er can be considered on the same level of popularity as Twice. People my age have been singing and dancing to Twice since our early middle school years, while people younger than me have been listening to them since they were tiny. Obviously, Twice has been active for much longer than Kep1er. But some newer groups have gained popularity through virality and powerful streaming fanbases (e.g Aespa). Twice has been able to achieve both, their most recent viral hit being Look at Me. Kep1er is definitely one of the more well-known groups among the hundreds out there, but they're not really known outside the kpop sphere. As for group specific album sections, I've noticed that for Kep1er, their album specific section comes when they have a comeback, and then it vanishes after around 2 weeks. I have been to a few stores with a permanent Kep1er section, but like I mentioned in my previous comment, their section isn't always guaranteed to be in every store. Some other examples are Oneus and Treasure. I've only seen these two groups have permanent sections once, at two different tower record locations.
You was all over that video great job I love limelight & Kepler, had no idea about the new Japanese limelight members but I did want mashiro & yesso in limelight & the conspiracy theory part was a genius call lmma get Kepler & a even stronger limelight, life is so good🎉❤😊
I don't think Wakeone purposely tried to make Kep1er less popular because I feel that the company doesn't even know how to use social media etc. to further push some of the potentially viral moments. If Kep1er members are continuing as a group Wakeone has to be super grateful and actually put more effort into their management.
I loved the points made in this video. then I IMMEDIATELY thought, and idk if this will make sense to anyone else, that “if they purposely sabotage the group to keep them together longer, who’s to say agencies won’t lend younger inexperienced trainees to survival shows?” Then I thought of the conception of UNIS! With that thought or business idea, you could “trap” older more experienced trainees (or in Yujin’s case)less popular, already debuted idols in a more permanent position and give the younger trainees a temporary chance to form their own professional experiences and fanbases to bring back popularity to their respective agencies. This could be a “work smarter” solution similar to a summer job or work study but not even 2 years ago (when the formation of NewJeans and the abrupt removal of Jian & Huiyeon from Lightsum’s lineup for allegedly being TOO young) were netizens saying that the kpop industry was over saturated with young talent being overworked and over sexualized. I could purpose that instead of disbanding the group altogether, why not just create units specifically designed for their agency to profit and promote and have occasional full group activities(like what Kara and SNSD have done with their recent anniversary releases)?
if your theory is true that wakeone is doing this to keep kep1er longer i'm actually gonna be impressed and won't jump at every opportunity to roast the company as much as i want to see kep1er's success the girls staying together at least another year would also be amazing
One thing I can’t figure out about survival show groups is, why is it that survival shows that form permanent groups, never seem to be popular? (Apart from enhypen and I suppose illit). Like, look at classy, fantasy boys, tan, unis… anyone have a take on this?
i guess it's because those shows were never popular in the first place, even though no.mercy (formed monsta x), finding momoland, and idol school are mnet programs they aren't as popular as the produce series so it took years of promotions and music releases for them to get popular, so it's going to be even harder for non mnet shows to gain some popularity. btw unis is not a permanent group.
The main reason is because these groups came out from new and not so popular shows and debuted under small companies. When a group is formed on Mnet survival show, since they already have experience, many kpop fans are tuning in. Also, if they will debut in a big agency like Enhypen in HYBE, their success is pretty much guaranteed thanks to good marketing and huge senior artists. In case of Enhypen, they were both in Mnet survival show and debuted under big company, so they couldn’t be not popular. ILLIT‘s survival show wasn’t that popular but since they‘re under a big company and got popular sound, they also couldn’t be not popular.
the whole theory of them promoting kep1er poorly so they could keep them would make sense but I think the whole reason of iland2’s eventual group being a permanent group under wakeone is to make up for the eventual loss of kep1er
I think they may have an if then clause they r working with rn…reason would be if their very last album does exponentially well they’ll reconsider disbanding if not they disband. Also to biggy back of off the failing management on purpose ….what if they did it so that in the end Kepler would stay which would boost ZB1 possibility of stay also since the company of ZB1 members would potentially consider letting them stay.💀💀💀 I’m actually hoping they disband to free Hiyyih, Xiaoting, And Hikaru just free the girls in general so they can build their brand… i heard that some members have been offer exclusive contracts from brands but wakeshit declined 😑😑😑
is "promoting better" in the room with us? be so serious, wakeone mistreats, abuses and under-promotes zb1 as well. the members THEMSELVES were shading wakeone and asking fans how can they promote themselves since wakeone isn't doing anything, only SABOTAGING them instead. zb1's debut was pretty successful only because boys planet was much more popular than girls planet. wakeone has done nothing for them, not even bare minimum
@@dumbkiddoj LMAOOOO the only members who complain are Yuehua members . Matthew, Hanbin , & Taterae never talk shit about Wake1 or complain. & please ZB1 gets plenty of promo and comeback LMAOOOO, it’s literally been a year and they have over 30 songs.
TXT debuted with 90k sales, at that time everybody saw that as Payola and now it’s seen as mid sales. But kep1er having 100K+ sales in Korea shows their potential in the future.
![[SUB] They love to drink as much as they love to talk(with Kep1er) | Inssadong Sulzzi](/img/n.gif)
(im sorry that most times the word 'Kep1er' appears on screen throughout this video it's stylised without the 1 btw...I swear it's in there but my cute font didn't approve! 🥺)
That's fine with me because I always though the 1 in the name was really stupid anyhow.
@@CaitCherThey probably did it bc they can’t copyright Kepler since he was a real person.
@@CaitCher WannaOne? Izone? X1 is stupid?
Honestly, Wakeone thinking "let's promote Kep1er badly so the companies have no choice but to keep the group together because the individual members aren't popular enough to start popular groups with" is hilariously diabolical. If they did it on purpose, I would kind of respect it lol I hope we do actually officially get a Kep1er extension. They've become one of my favorite groups. Even if Mashiro and Yeseo leave, the rest of the members staying together would be great.
It’s not a powermove WakeOne is the dumbest company ever they rather want to keep their girl groups in nugudom and have those groups eat all their money for what? Wake One is so petty against their girl groups they shouldn’t even make another girl group but i guess Wake One just likes getting bankrupted by making another girl group that wont make them money cause of their incompetence to promote and treat them properly
It's just sad that they'd stay under w1 who is impressively incompetent at managing groups considering that that's the main thing they do (overall CJ labels just tend to suck in a "bad at managing" way I've never seen from other companies - it often times feels as if the people involved in the groups have no idea on how to create a kpop group - literally randomly swapping out members of TOO/TO1 (a survival show btw) and seemingly not caring on giving Kep1er any kind of identity and the pacing around zb1s Japanese debut to their other cbs was just odd and they just seem to refuse a bunch of the members in a more profitable way but instead openly mismanage Ricky and give the member an incredibly disportionate amout of screentime (especially Taerae and Gunwook - the two are from CJ companies and are heavily speculated to end up in groups of them - pretty likely the same which will either be under Jellyfish or w1 with some EVNNE members since the other Jellyfish trainees seem to have left / forgotten by their company)
@@thethingcalledlisa tbh, apperently they do know how to manage a gg, just look at izone
its hilariously hard to believe that too. if zerobaseone or even Yuri were an astronomical success, at least we would have concrete proof that wakeone truly knows how to get there, even if that weren't true and it was all nothing more than a stroke of luck. but reality doesn't lie. both kep1er and zerobaseone share a similar viewership base here on CZcams and as far as I know, zerobaseone has more traction in the Korean market, which is to be expected from a boy group and from a group formed on a show. Yuri, on the other hand, has never surpassed her 15 mi captives since her solo debut, even though she has above average vocal quality. it seems that wakeone is absolutely incompetent in getting their artists to surpass 50 million spectators in a stable way. for me, the overall quality of kepler's comebacks since lovestruck has improved in ways I honestly would never have expected, but I think it's highly unlikely that wakeone will change or improve the management of the group with 7 members.
@@thethingcalledlisaEVNNE is not under Jellyfish ma’am
the entire concept of "success" is so warped in kpop. kep1er *is* successful. there are so many girls and groups who would kill to have even their "meager" sales and fans.
yeah their albums sales are over a million ain't no way the average group can pull this off this group had too many haters 🤣
I think how you talked about different members having different opportunities is hitting the nail right on the head some of the members, especially the older members because of the unfortunate ageism of K-pop have much more limited opportunities than the younger ones
I also thin that the solo stans would influence that a lot - Hiyyih and Xiaoting would definitely take far more fans with them than the other members
@@thethingcalledlisa that’s also a part of it. This isn’t the sound mean but some of the members are just so much more popular than the other members so they probably have a lot more opportunities or options than the less popular ones.
Honestly even though people call them flops they're popular in Japan. I'm pretty sure they sell out shows and the Japanese market can be a money maker which is why companies do releases there
I don't even know why Wakeone hasn't taken advantage of Kep1er's massive popularity in Japan yet. They have Japanese releases, sure, but I feel like the Japanese market should be their main focus at this point. Kep1er could potentially become the Kara of 4th-5th gen if Wakeone play their cards rights.
Honestly theirs japan songs is so much better than the korea one
@@mariunfabregas7533 i feel like they've focusing alot on the J market lately with their latest release Kep1going album, they've done more shows than the previous comeback but i do agree that they should send them to variety shows over there more..
@@naokizuzuki2031
Facts cuz straight line has no reason being that good
by the time kep1er's potential final 3 day concert tour is done in mid july which is being held at the same 20k venue in japan
kep1er would have had 19 concerts or fan meets which were basically concerts in terms of ticket prices & sales
after all that the final tickets sold for those shows would be over 200k ... that's about 10.5k attendance per show
when you add up the revenue from tickets and all the merchandise sold at those live shows, kep1er i'd guess has made quite a lot of money just in japan activities alone
that also doesn't even include their 4 japan releases as their most recent japanese album sold 120k+ in it's first week of release recently, they are the only second 4th gen girl group to sell 100k for a japanese album and in total i think their 4 japan releases will have sold over 300k+ albums
although i've read profits for album sales for kpop groups & or artists bring in less revenue than brand deals & touring ... and again kep1er has done very well with the latter in japan specifically
a lot don't understand how big japan is for kpop acts who aren't that that popular in south korea which is what kep1er is mainly due to them being the first kpop group formed from an mnet survival show after the produce scandal as i truly think they were blackballed or black listed domestically in south korea & no matter what koreans weren't going to support the group as a whole
japan & international touring but japan specifically in this instance is a life line for a lot of small & mid tier kpop groups who can still earn good money in that country which again has likely been the case for kep1er these last 2.5 years since debut
I feel like a detail that’s often omitted is that these girls were thrown into another survival show (queendom) too early into their career. They didn’t have any advantage during the competition, and when they got out it only worsened their case.
It is a very special case, because no survival show group happened to participate into a second one following their formation.
I think this impacted heavily their standing amongst peers, who got to grow their fanbases and quickly release follow-ups to their debut, while kep1er were stuck fighting established female artists with only 6 songs under their belt…
Are we really forgetting TOO and Road to Kingdom? These poor boys were slotted there BEFORE their actual debut. So evil.
Imagine not releasing Back to the City as a main single.
They overall have quite a bunch of good b-sides (aboslutely love LVLY)
those two songs are my favorite songs in general, idk why their bsides are so much better than their titles (minus up! i love it too much to say anything bad lol)
@GonpachiroKamaboku Literally this.
Giddy is more TT worthy.
@@thethingcalledlisai’d say they have my fav discography in kpop tbh
Sad that Yeshiro is leaving but still happy since they're still together
WK1 is in a weird spot i would say not bc of Kep but bc of i-land 2. The group that will be formed under that show will likely be under WK1. And, the group will have a normal contract length. Meaning 7 years. So, if Kep continues, let's say until the end of the year. WK1 could possibly two girl groups under their label at the same time. I feel like this is something not many are thinking about with Kep maybe continuing past July.
They will also manage a new group that is produced by the BLACKLABEL I think? So two new hyped rookie gg. Yeah no chance for Kep1er. Even if I'm wrong just the Iland group will kill every hype Kep1er had left.
@@moongirl8807that is the Iland 2 group
@@moongirl8807 Kepler already made a name for themselves so I am not worried.
They kinda had two bgs at the same time ... kinda ... sorry to TO1 but they were pretty much rotting in some random corner for the second half of their career (especially after some members leaving)
Even though I still feel like it WK1 isn’t fully capable of managing Kep1er, I-land2 GG, and ZB1. WK1 is being merged with Swing Entertainment next month. I feel like they decided to merge the two companies to increase the amount of people to “better” market and manage the groups.
im surprised hiyyih's company decided to stay, shes the one member that has a really strong solo fan base that would make a new group or solo career successful. i can totally see the other members staying tho, especially yujin and xiaoting who are "older" to be a rookie (which i hate)
Her fan base is so divisive that they’re probably worried what would happen - it would be a huge gamble. Also, after how she’s been treated by fans etc she might not even want to continue in the industry - in which case she would be useless to the company outside of Kepler…
@@cursedwyvern3044 hiyyih already said she wants to continue in the industry tho, she's said it multiple times now.
I could think of a couple of reasons why they let Bahiyyih stay in Kep1er.
1. Her company probably doesn't want to put her in a group after seeing how her solo stans acted during her time in Kep1er. Boycotting Kep1er several times, constantly calling for Kep1er's disbandment, actively hating on the other members, etc. Bahiyyih's company is small, and I doubt they have the resources to make a successful girlgroup. If the group they debut Bahiyyih in turns out to be unsuccessful (which it most likely would), her solo stans would most likely start an uproar, sabotage their new girlgroup and possibly cripple their already-small company.
2. Soloists tend to not do as well as groups do. The only successful soloists in K-pop are those with a solid fanbase in Korea like Izone's Yuri, which Bahiyyih doesn't have. Her fanbase are mostly international fans. If you look at soloists who rely on international fans, like Sunmi and Chungha, they kinda fell off when they stopped releasing hits since international K-pop stans are less loyal to soloist idols.
3. Bahiyyih's onl real chance of success in Korea would be to sign with a bigger label like Hybe. It's understandable that her company would rather profit from her through Kep1er than to give her up completely.
4. It's not likely that Hybe would sign her like her stans expect. Hybe is in shambles right now, and I really don't think a corporation like Hybe would be willing to take the risk of debuting a new girlgroup just for one idol from a semi-successful girlgroup like Kep1er. Bahiyyih most likely already realized this and decided that staying in Kep1er would be the safest option for her to continue having a career in Korea.
@@mariunfabregas7533IST isnt that small. It's a pretty mid tier company if you ask me.
@@mariunfabregas7533 I completely understand these reasons, but I would not call IST "small." They were formerly known as Play M Entertainment before the name change. They're home to The Boyz, Weeekly, Victon ATBO, and formerly Apink. The Boys and Apink in particularly were pretty successful. They are also a Kakao subsidiary. Due to this, I would consider them mid-tier.
If Bahiyyih resigns to extend her activities with Kep1er, it's likely because she wanted too. The members have expressed multiple times that they want to stay together. IST held auditions last year for female trainees, so I suspect the trainees aren't debut ready yet, so a contract extension would be convenient for both Bahiyyih to continue activities and IST to finish up training for the members of their new girl group, or for her to build her skills for a solo debut (although I don't see her debuting solo, personally).
I also think fans overestimate the importance of solo stans and their whining. While Bahiyyih's Solo stans are annoying and mean to other members of Kep1er, many of them desire for her to debut in another group. Only a very small portion see and want her to debut solo. If IST is watching their actions, they'll also be able to see that discourse as well.
I am so happy they agree to not disband. What they need to do is promote Kepler right and give them a good song if they want the group to do better. Well, I am excited that Yeseo and Mashiro will join the limelight. I am sure the company only debuted three girls first because they waiting for Yeseo and Mashiro.
I also do think a huge piece of this puzzle is with the those outside companies! For example with the new boy group zerobaseone (zb1) for some reason, i don't see a contract extension in their future cuz of the companies they are with. In zb1, there are 4/9 members (that in zhanghao, Ricky who i believe is seeing a bunch of popularity in terms of personality from short vid platforms, gyuvin and yujin) in yuehua in which i can see them make another new bg to be the ones that would take hold of tempest's legacy! So i think in the case of zb1, i think it would be less likely to see them extend their time together as a group 🌟
I could kinda see the members stay especially since YH has all of their other BP999 members in different groups so it's also possible that they somehow make both contracts permanent
But if that happens I really hope the amount of releases gets dialed down to a normal groups and not a survival show group especially since some of the members would do pretty well releasing more OSTs, solos, acting (especially Jiwoong since he already has experience) etc
Also if they disband then EVNNE will do the same and I really hope that Keita doesn't go back to Raincompany and that they Ciipher members do smth better because Rain really shouldn't have groups - he's proven that he'll only care about them for the first bit of time
Also YH and w1 seem to have a pretty close bond and half of the groups being under YH probably means they get a big split plus there are only really 3 other companies involved (not counting w1 and Jellyfish who'd keep EVNNE in that situation)
Yuehua is definitely going to debut the next IVE but bg version through zb1 and Evnne members so I do not predict any extension in the future!!!
@@thriftskull5549you forget one thing - this is Yuehua we’re talking about.
Ive and Leserrafim’s success as post-survival show groups is unprecedented. Up until then, the term ‘survival show curse’ was frequently used because it was very difficult for groups formed with ex-mnet survival show members to find success (Weki Meki, Dia, Ab6ix etc). Of course there were exceptions (Chungha, Kim Sejeong, Jeon Somi etc), but notice how they are all solo artists?
Ive and Leserrafim got the success they have because they are both under medium to big size labels. (Starship and Soumu). The only other post mnet idol to also have this is Jeon Somi (the black label).
Yuehua’s Korean branch currently has 3 active artists: Choi Yena, Everglow, and Tempest. Yena is doing quite well, but the fandoms of the other two artists always have beef with the company (and for good reasons).
The biggest example is Everglow having a three year hiatus for absolutely no explained reason.
This is so show that Yuehua does not have a good track record when it comes to their groups (notice how I said ‘active’ groups earlier? Yeah.)
The other big fear of the zb1 yh line going back to Yh has to do with Zhang Hao and Ricky. Yuehua’s main branch is in China, where they primarily manage actors.
Wang Yibo, formerly of UNIQ, found much much much more success as an actor in China than as a kpop idol. Since then, Yh have sent their Chinese artists to participate in Chinese dramas/variety shows.
Normally, this would not be an issue. But this is Yuehua, so while their Chinese members are away, the remaining Korean members will be left twiddling their thumbs (this has happened to Everglow).
So while atm, a contract extension with zb1 does not look likely, we’d actually prefer them to stay with wk1. It’s a lesser of two evils situation. Both companies suck, but at least the group dynamic we’ve grown to love would still be together
The problem is, Tempest is an active group in Yuehua, so there shouldn’t be a legacy. But because Yh is doing such a poor job at managing 2 active groups (Tempest and Everglow), adding a potential third group to their roster would probably make things even messier than they already are 😢
@@pidgeongguk8818 yes I understand that’s what some zeroses would want but it’s just not possible in the grand scheme Yuehua is gonna definitely want them back and not extend their contracts! A contract extension is only possible is because Kep1er while still successful is not as successful as Iz*one and zb1 since they are so successful Yuehua is going to want to cash out on the boys 🤷🏽
Im not an industry insider or delver..BUT in my mind Kep1er's lowest album sales are NOT something to scoff of either, specially for a GG.
outta my head i think groups such as dreamcatcher and loona never achieved such numbers. And there are a lot of groups out there that would kill or die to get something like that.
If all Kep1er members were on the same company it would be easier to analyse...SO the question im thinking is HOW the multiple splits betwen all de companies work??
No one said that the numbers were bad but it's worrying that they continuesly sold worse which is the first sign of you needing to change smth but even when they tried to make small changes it wouldn't work
They sold almost 400k on their debut and barely sold 150k on the last Korean release, their sales dropped by more than half and it's unlikely they'll recover given the group is getting older, also none of their songs except Wa Da Da have charted, they would/will need a viral situation like EXID had with Up&Down to keep the group going.
According to an article I read long ago at Kep1ers debut days (cuz was curious about the same thing) the splits work like this:
Wake One covers all the expenses of the group, promotions, food , dorm, concert arragements etc. W1 takes 50% of all the profit and the other 50% are divided among the Kep1er members companies. While 50% divided between 8 companies might sound little, keep in mind this is *pure* profit they get directly in their pockets, they dont have to invest a cent since Wake One pays for everything. As for how much money the girls themselves get paid, we dont know since the contracts arent made public. As far as I know, Wake One is the one who pays the girls, maybe according to the profit made on each album.
I read comments under an instagram post that said that Kep1er would continue and the comments were so rude. "IZ*ONE was more succesful and they deserved it more", "Kep1er should disband", "not deserved" and from Kep1ians i saw "i want them to continue as 9 members", "9 or none"
I am happy for whatever may come for Kep1er. You're totally right about 'older' members wanting to renew to stay active as a group. I am just hoping for better promotion for Kep1er for the members that do decide to extend their contract. Also, do an actual world your and capitalize on their virality in Japan. Always a pleasure to see a new video from you, Fran. 💟🥰✌️
Oh wait. The narrative changed again? Last thing I heard the renewed as 7. Why would people post all these updates with fake news this far and spread wide around twitter? This is insanely stupid and unhelpful for casual listeners. I'm glad I clicked this video, so I understand what is going on!
The unfortunate scenario where a “news source” publishes unconfirmed information, stating it to be true, just so they can get the first clicks on the topic to their website 😭💔
All publicity is good publicity. The same happened with Izone. It gets Kep1er's name in the headlines, and it drums up interest in their last comeback.
@@RasendoriXProduction Interestingly enough that also happened with BoysPlanet - there were news about a group under Jellyfish with the EVNNE members like a few weeks to a month before "BLIT" (now EVNNE) was actually confirmed
Yessss!! I’m so happy that Limelight will be having two new members from Kep1er! Honestly they had been a mess but I’m so happy for the two girls plus I’m so happy for Limelight will being a seven member group 🫶🏼
The two members of kep1er deserve better tho
@@sarahjyun2044 yup they really do
Limelight seems to be targeting Japanese fans imo, so Mashiro and Yeseo will secure them success there, most definitely!
@@goldyd144 yup I can agreed 👍🏼
@@sarahjyun2044 yeah they really do but I’m glad that they’ll have a chance to restart
Kep1er is going baby! Group has Extended and I hope for them
OMG this is how I learn that 7 Kep1er members are renewing their contracts, I can't believe it 😭😭
It’s not 100% confirmed yet though 😢
There are rumours that they won’t renew after all.
Yeah, I mean, it will genuinely be super depressing if any of them do end up renewing because it pretty much means the group failed… they didn’t get the individual member success they needed.
i really like your analysis here !! i do just want to say tho, kepi members have had many viral moments, (xiaoting isac, all their kcon covers, hikaru purr fancam, yujin hype boy to name a few:)) but wakeone doesn’t capitalise on these viral moments AT ALL, making them essentially redundant as they had no longevity. i completely agree with ur analysis on why they might survive unlike other produce groups + another reason they never reached the heights they could was because of the insane lineup of ggs debuting in 2022 and w1 refused to promote them at all, let alone to the levels the others were being promoted by their companies !! mainly bc gp999 wasn’t to form kep1er it was to see if bp could be made while the other companies actually wanted their groups to debut lol. which made them not gain as many fans as they could + kpop stans always need their token ‘hated’ group & kepis mismanagement and mistreatment made it all the more easy for them to fall into that role :( great video :) i personally hope they get out of wakeone cause i cannot survive any longer with them under there😭
right! only time theyve done anyhting to promote iconic moments is when they let the girls do the "1 plus 1 equals i miss u too" challenge after it went moderately popular.
Reboot the group as an 11 member team by adding Bora, Myah, Yurina, and Sury.
Wk1 is just a bad company in general, their management of to1 is a pretty example of that plus rhey will merge with swing in the near future so maybe more staff would help with managing the groups
Oh i love you thank you for not just sharting on kepi for 20 mins
Yay! I’m excited to see what ur thoughts are
thank you so much! 🥰
Incredibly off-topic but your accent is mesmerizing 😊❤
Aw that's so sweet, thank you so much! 🥺💖
Many Kep1er fans say that Kep1er is successful in Japan, and that is to a certain extent, true.
However I would like to clarify that they are by no means a massive household name.
Currently, the most popular ggs in Japan are:
- Babymonster and Illit for Magnetic and Sheesh going really really viral
- Blackpink, Twice, NewJeans, Aespa, Ive, Lesserafim for consistent success (in that order)
The next tier I’d put it is Red Velvet, Itzy, Kep1er, G-idle.
To clarify, I live in Japan, and my estimations are based off on
1) How much people actually talk about a gg (especially when it comes to non-kpop fans)
2) Whether they have group specific sections in Tower Records or not. The less successful groups have their albums put into the general ‘kpop shelves’, while bigger groups have their own dedicated section.
The first 8 groups I mentioned are guaranteed to have their own section, regardless of location. The next 4 in my experience, haven’t been consistent.
They are certainly considered successful, sure!
But when people mention Kep1er’s Japanese success, some people might be overestimating just how popular they are here.
But the most popular gg at the moment is definitely ME:I, the group that debuted from Produce Japan a few months ago.
Kep1er does actually have their own section in some Japanese music stores and there was even banners promoting the new Kep1going album and I’d say they’re up there with TWICE in terms of popularity in Japan
@@Matt..- I'm not really convinced that Kep1er can be considered on the same level of popularity as Twice.
People my age have been singing and dancing to Twice since our early middle school years, while people younger than me have been listening to them since they were tiny.
Obviously, Twice has been active for much longer than Kep1er. But some newer groups have gained popularity through virality and powerful streaming fanbases (e.g Aespa).
Twice has been able to achieve both, their most recent viral hit being Look at Me.
Kep1er is definitely one of the more well-known groups among the hundreds out there, but they're not really known outside the kpop sphere.
As for group specific album sections, I've noticed that for Kep1er, their album specific section comes when they have a comeback, and then it vanishes after around 2 weeks. I have been to a few stores with a permanent Kep1er section, but like I mentioned in my previous comment, their section isn't always guaranteed to be in every store.
Some other examples are Oneus and Treasure. I've only seen these two groups have permanent sections once, at two different tower record locations.
You was all over that video great job I love limelight & Kepler, had no idea about the new Japanese limelight members but I did want mashiro & yesso in limelight & the conspiracy theory part was a genius call lmma get Kepler & a even stronger limelight, life is so good🎉❤😊
I don't think Wakeone purposely tried to make Kep1er less popular because I feel that the company doesn't even know how to use social media etc. to further push some of the potentially viral moments. If Kep1er members are continuing as a group Wakeone has to be super grateful and actually put more effort into their management.
Limelight has Miu from GP999 and I’m sooo excited for Yeseo and Mashiro to join. Go stream limelight!
I loved the points made in this video. then I IMMEDIATELY thought, and idk if this will make sense to anyone else, that “if they purposely sabotage the group to keep them together longer, who’s to say agencies won’t lend younger inexperienced trainees to survival shows?” Then I thought of the conception of UNIS!
With that thought or business idea, you could “trap” older more experienced trainees (or in Yujin’s case)less popular, already debuted idols in a more permanent position and give the younger trainees a temporary chance to form their own professional experiences and fanbases to bring back popularity to their respective agencies.
This could be a “work smarter” solution similar to a summer job or work study but not even 2 years ago (when the formation of NewJeans and the abrupt removal of Jian & Huiyeon from Lightsum’s lineup for allegedly being TOO young) were netizens saying that the kpop industry was over saturated with young talent being overworked and over sexualized. I could purpose that instead of disbanding the group altogether, why not just create units specifically designed for their agency to profit and promote and have occasional full group activities(like what Kara and SNSD have done with their recent anniversary releases)?
anyway they are coming back in 2days
if your theory is true that wakeone is doing this to keep kep1er longer i'm actually gonna be impressed and won't jump at every opportunity to roast the company as much as i want to see kep1er's success the girls staying together at least another year would also be amazing
Stream SHOOTING STARS!!!
One thing I can’t figure out about survival show groups is, why is it that survival shows that form permanent groups, never seem to be popular? (Apart from enhypen and I suppose illit). Like, look at classy, fantasy boys, tan, unis… anyone have a take on this?
i guess it's because those shows were never popular in the first place, even though no.mercy (formed monsta x), finding momoland, and idol school are mnet programs they aren't as popular as the produce series so it took years of promotions and music releases for them to get popular, so it's going to be even harder for non mnet shows to gain some popularity. btw unis is not a permanent group.
The main reason is because these groups came out from new and not so popular shows and debuted under small companies. When a group is formed on Mnet survival show, since they already have experience, many kpop fans are tuning in. Also, if they will debut in a big agency like Enhypen in HYBE, their success is pretty much guaranteed thanks to good marketing and huge senior artists. In case of Enhypen, they were both in Mnet survival show and debuted under big company, so they couldn’t be not popular. ILLIT‘s survival show wasn’t that popular but since they‘re under a big company and got popular sound, they also couldn’t be not popular.
@@minhyuklees1bebe902 Unis’ company stated that they can become a popular group if they win certain awards or something
Happy for Kep1er!
the whole theory of them promoting kep1er poorly so they could keep them would make sense but I think the whole reason of iland2’s eventual group being a permanent group under wakeone is to make up for the eventual loss of kep1er
so basicaly we make lime light popular then kep1er stays OT9😭😭😭😭
I dont want Kep1er to extend their contract
Majority don’t
@@polar7335 wakeone has mismanaged this group a lot for us to want them to continue
We don’t care what you want ma’am LMAOOOO
I think they may have an if then clause they r working with rn…reason would be if their very last album does exponentially well they’ll reconsider disbanding if not they disband.
Also to biggy back of off the failing management on purpose ….what if they did it so that in the end Kepler would stay which would boost ZB1 possibility of stay also since the company of ZB1 members would potentially consider letting them stay.💀💀💀
I’m actually hoping they disband to free Hiyyih, Xiaoting, And Hikaru just free the girls in general so they can build their brand… i heard that some members have been offer exclusive contracts from brands but wakeshit declined 😑😑😑
Choi YuJin's "full career" with "CLC" had me crylaughing but that's an outdated topic.
Great video 🤓
"Better the devil you know" by Kylie Minogue
u didn’t mention the fact that wakeshit learned their mistake and made zb1 much success group by promoting them better😔
is "promoting better" in the room with us? be so serious, wakeone mistreats, abuses and under-promotes zb1 as well. the members THEMSELVES were shading wakeone and asking fans how can they promote themselves since wakeone isn't doing anything, only SABOTAGING them instead. zb1's debut was pretty successful only because boys planet was much more popular than girls planet. wakeone has done nothing for them, not even bare minimum
@@dumbkiddoj LMAOOOO the only members who complain are Yuehua members . Matthew, Hanbin , & Taterae never talk shit about Wake1 or complain. & please ZB1 gets plenty of promo and comeback LMAOOOO, it’s literally been a year and they have over 30 songs.
@@Sandrinarhonda you "LMAOOO" too much, cornball
TXT debuted with 90k sales, at that time everybody saw that as Payola and now it’s seen as mid sales. But kep1er having 100K+ sales in Korea shows their potential in the future.
That Kaede cameo 🤣🤣
Hayeon and Mayu too
How was I so fast-
hehe helloo!
All this media play is crazy from WakeOne. Kepler will be disbanding in July like they are suppose to.
Trash agency
im so sad im never gonna get over this im srsly srsly so so over im
the hiyyih solo stans would hate this ngl
9 or none omg 😭i swear no one is ot9 im so disappointed in kep1ians
Does anyone care enough about this band with a contract extension.
yes????