Scott Flying Squirrel, derived from the 1908 squirrel, 700cc water cooled 2 stroke by 1926 it did 85mph as standard and would reach well over 100mph if tuned, first telescopic forks ever used and plenty of other industry firsts 🙂
I rode a 1926 Flying Squirrel in a movie stunt in the 1980's and was very impressed. The owner was a Lancaster bomber Flight Engineer who kept it in prime running condition. Riding in a muddy rutted track, the low centre of gravity provided excellent handling and the powerful engine produced very tractable horsepower compared to the high revving Japanese 2strokes.
Pretty sure the 1934 Fisker Nielsen Nimbus is the First Motorcycle to have Telescopic Forks! The Flying Squirrel didn't have Telescopic Forks, was a Grider set up with Internal Spring on the Lower Leg!
@@jarnosaarinen4583 The Nimbus was the first hydraulically damped telescopic. the early Scott had non damped telescopic forks, but dropped the design and went back to girder forks afterwards, so we are both right in different ways 🙂
I think the Black Shadow is in the elite class as well. Here in Australia it cost as much as two of our brand new Holden cars and also was the price of an average (for the time) home. So definitely out of the average wage guys back then.
Did anyone see the owners manual that came with the CB750? I remember cracking up over the Chinglish, & a couple of the warnings are still retained verbatim in my memory, "When encountering the festive dog, say hai, hai, & tootle the horn melodiously"; & who could forget "beware the skid demon".
@@motorcyclecafe in the owner's manual also said when approaching the policeman slow down and salute him with the greeting hai-hai. And yes beware the skid demon who resides in early made Japanese motorcycle tires.
Used CB750 K1 was my first road bike, as soon as I got my P license in 1977. Cost $1000. Loved her and rode her around east coast Aus for 12 years, when I sold her for about the same $, to use a ‘59 Landrover that I’d rebuilt. I still miss the old girl. I wonder how much she’s worth today … thanks for the great info and context.
The Worlds First Production Superbike was the 1967 Norton Commando 750. The Commando was also Motorcycle News, Motorcycle Of The Year for five consecutive years. It had a production life of ten years with over 55000 units.We all have our own preferences as to what we like, my list would be long and varied.
Thank you for your compelling presentation. I've seen a few of these motorcycles in museums and local events. The small descreptive museum plaques don't do justice to these machines. Your full descreptions of these machines, for me, add a great deal of depth. Thank you again, Brant
I think on price alone the T120 was the first truly affordable super bike that the average working classes could afford and make their own . It was a game changer.
@@iancooll12 That bloody styling by Ogle, I have no idea what possessed Triumph/BSA, about the only thing Ogle had styled up to that point was the Reliant Robin! Not only was it hideous (leading Triumph/BSA to send kits to the USA to convert the bikes back to traditional) , it delayed the release of the bike by a very crucial 18 months. The engine design had been essentially complete well before even that date. The engine was only supposed to be an interim design to bridge to the all new modular modern engine design. Even so, it was the first production, transverse, multi-cylinder (greater than two) design, of course, someone will probably prove me wrong. The 750 triple was based on the 250 single (bore and stroke) not the 500 twin as many people think. The bike had the performance, the later ones were very beautiful to look at and the sound!!!, but once electric start showed up, macho went out the window. I hate to say it but technical excellence will NOT trump looks when it comes to selling motorcycles, just look at the Vincent Series D Black Prince and Black Knight, technically excellent and much more comfortable due to the fairings, but not pretty, I spent a lot of time looking at the one at the Motorcycle Museum at Nabiac (New South Wales) and could find no angle where it looked good. Nabiac is fantastic, everyone in Oz should spend time there, so many unusual and fascinating machines, including Scotts, amazing how long the fundamentals of the design lasted. One other problem was using one production line to build the two (slightly different) engines, I like both but from a marketing viewpoint and cost saving viewpoint, they should have just made the inclined BSA version. There were ton of other issues, all solvable but unsolved due to crazy management.
Thanks buddy, i appreciate your positive feedback. Yer Stone is probably a bit lame by todays standards. I spoke with Sandy Harbutt on the phone once. Hes passed on now like many of the others.
Great historical motorcycling video, though I'm surprised that the Ariel square four didn't get a mention but my personal favourite that revolutionised the handling of Japanese bikes with it's monoshock suspension was the Yamaha RD 350LC.
Modern production line Motorcycle available to the masses HAS to be Honda CB750 four. It came with, as standard, so many modern for the day fittings, was drop dead gorgeous with awesome build quality. It set the bar so high that British motorcycle industry foundered and never caught up. I have one presently.
When Harley-Davidson came out with the knucklehead they sued crocker and in court the judge looked at the crocker and looked at the knucklehead and told Harley-Davidson that they were lucky that crocker was not suing them. Crocker stopped making motorcycles because of WWII and then never restarted afterwards. I had an uncle who had a crocker overhead valve conversion for his Indian and it was one of the fastest motorcycles in New York City in the 1950s until it got stolen.
For several years in the late 1960s, the not - even- mentioned Harley Sportster was the fastest production motorcycle in the world capable of 127 mph. There were local grudge races between hotrodded Sportsters and 427 Corvettes every weekend at our race way. A Sportster held the (naked bike) land speed record (200 mph) for many years. The Sportster was produced, uninterrupted, from 1958 to 2022, also a record.
You are correct it was I mentioned this in the doco on the big bikes of the 60s. Although some disagreed it is indeed a fact. Sportsters were the bees knees for most of the sixties.
Vincent's in the 1950s were sold through Indian dealerships. According to the price list I have they started at $1,400 for a Vincent $1,600 for a black shadow and $1,800 for a black lightning made to order only. These prices for a Vincent outside of the lightning equivalent to a big Indian or Harley-Davidson full dresser motorcycle 🏍️ a GMC pickup truck of the same year was $1,200 so that gives you a perspective on prices, you could buy a good house for $5,000. The average weight for a factory worker was $200 a week . The catalog price for a top-of-the-line Lionel train set including accessories track the whole nine yards was $79 and let's not forget everything in the Lionel train set with american-made including the box. The dollars you made back then had more buying power because they weren't pissed away financing the welfare/warfare state that we have had for over 60 years which is why a dollar is now worth a nickel.
And if you ever saw a Z900 at Bathurst campground doing doughnuts with the exhaust glowing red hot and revved to the max you'll know what reliability is.
Great summary. No comment on conclusions since that is largely subjective--think I agree, mostly. All I have to say is I saw a Vincent in a museum when I was a teenager. Absolutely gorgeous bike.
I remember and cycle magazine a reader pen a limerick about the Munch mammoth 🦣 of displacement the mammoth was munch the view from the seat was Teutonic Lee neat but a Kawasaki Z1 would eat it for lunch. I think I remembered it almost correctly
I’ve still got my 1984 GPz 550 with 28,000 original miles. It’s definitely not the GPz 900 but it would definitely open your eyes to small displacement powered bikes
I have to agree as far as more modern machines go the Honda 750 and Kawasaki 900 started it all...👍 I have owned several of each and really enjoyed them.
To put it into perspective: The front brake of the Münch cost more than a CB750 at the time. Making racing brakes was Friedel Münch's main source of income. Some say it was the finest drum brake ever made and practically as good as disc brakes, it was however heavier despite being made from cast magnesium alloy, much more complex and horrendously expensive.
Really interesting video. Can't fault your reasoning. However the only one the common man can afford to buy now is the CB750. I have one that is a bit rough around the edges but runs well. Worth a mere £4k {UK pounds)
@allanthomas7345 I suppose we all make our choices. There is no such thing as the 'average bloke' Enjoy your Holden. Sounds like we are both able to enjoy life and make choices! Have fun
It’s an argument that will never be resolved. It’s been a slow evolution from the beginning. Heck in its own way the lowly Honda 305 Superhawk punched well above its displacement and cost. I’ve seen them out run a 650 Triumph. As a owner of a 75’ Z1 I’d like to think it was the first superbike but it’s just not true. I’m just happy to be part of the community since 1965.
@@Steve-wx9gl I believe in 1948 Suzuki was making little commuter motorcycles the same way Honda was. I think they won the last Catalina Grand Prix run on the island before the rich people ran the motorcycles off the Island.
Disc brake did not work at all in the wet as I went through a stop light or 2 thinking I had brakes. The rear drum would still work but working alone was not enough. Over 40 mph or more, the front disc would work as the heat would dry it fast. Under 40 and wet, it was not there.
You did a decent job on this video, I would suggest that the Norton Commando and the Honda CB750 share the honor as one closed out the "old fashioned" era and the other brought in the modern motorcycle era, both doing it with a BANG and in high style. I preferred the rowdy character of the Norton over the smooth sophistication of the Honda and feel very fortunate to have lived through that entire golden time, having started riding in 1961. Each decade had it's "Superbike", but what is important is what really kicked off the "Modern Superbike Age"...
Very cool mate, Would have picked the Vincent as the first, off the top of my head but, that last bike is a work of art 👍✌😎 Nice production on the vids too 👍✌😎
Well done! If I ever hit the lottery I'll buy a Vincent. I've owned a Honda CB 750K and an F model. Great bikes! I'd get another if the right deal came up.
I had the pleasure of riding a Vincent series C Rapide, when I was a young man looking for my first big Bike, for touring, nobody wanted them back then, He offered it to me for 500pounds sterling, I brought a Honda cb500t and loved it, brand new for 498 pounds, both scared the crap out of me after just passing my test on my Yam DT 175. Ever since I've lusted after one, but my preference in British Bikes is Nortons, that's why I brought the 500t I wanted a Red Norton Interstate but couldn't afford one even used. I have a few now, and I still, love them 50yrs later. I also owned a full-power silver CBX, but just traded it last year, to get my Cb450T/500t Back as I could no longer handle the weight on my legs after breaking my back years ago, I owned the CBX since the 80s, with a jet kit in Bassani 6 into 1, the best the sound and power was incredible, K & N filter etcetera, redid the suspension too, so it was an incredible Bike. I have a VFR with full HRC engine, got lucky years ago and got the parts off an old racer, a really great Bike I unwitingly go faster on that, than anything else I ride. The 16inch front wheel sucks and no matter what you do it will never be right, untill you change it to a 17inch one, as Honda did themselves, very trecherous.Which is exactly how I managed to aford it back in 1989 crashed,the owner lost the front. The Best Honda of the 70's was supposed to be the cb900f when they all came out, in 1978 it was only very slightly slower than a CBX and handled much better, They were both endurance race Bikes at the time and as I remember it the CBX had it, those who could ride them did very well on them, 3 yrs later the cb1100 Bol a Dor was a fantasic bit of kit but a bit dated buy then. I remember well my mates Bottle green 1000 Kawasaki, beautifull Bike an instant classic looks as good today as it did then and it went. Magical times to be a rider, that will never come again, sad! All considered I think the VFR has to take it, with the drone of the Gear driven cams, your Joey on the Island and the first true superbike, once sorted and a genuine 150mph machine like the Vincent, also hand built, Honda lost their shirt on them.
@@iancooll12 so many great bikes over the years, some great bikes didn't even sell well. Back then you made a bike fit your own riding style, these days it's all done for you. I had a XS 850 which I put a full race fairing on, god I loved that bike even though it wasn't that good really LOL.
Cyclone preceded the Ace, but not sure if it meets your criteria for what would be considered a production MC. Even though it is listed as the fastest bike of its time. I found your video interesting but also wondered about going in time in the other direction. The 1978 Kawasaki Z1R was also special and could be considered the super bike of its time. The 1990 Kawasaki ZX11 and 1999 Hayabusa certainly were as each marked a leap in both technology and speed when compared to other bikes of their era.
Brilliant film and very well-argued. But overall, I still favour the Honda 750 because it was a leap forward in quality, technology & reliability yet still affordable to regular buyers.
Thank you, its a very contraversial subject. I dont think the term superbike was even used before the late 60's or so. But what you mentioned is on the money. I guess it really depends on how the individual looks at it.
That turned out to be a fucking good video! Good on ya, bro'! Funny and kept me guessing. I was thinking the Indian with the Henderson motor but you are spot on. ACE!😅
CB 750, KZ900 and KZ1000. I personally preferred the 1000. Some might say the first was the Kawi triple or even the Black Shadow. - The presentation was much more thorough than I had anticipated. The conclusion is rather amusing being a Yankee bike.
Superb research again! I'm a Z900 owner but I still have to let the CB750 be first on the grounds of 4 characteristics of my Z: availability reliability affordability warranty.
In my opinion availability and affordability to the general public should be added to the criteria, otherwise it isn't really fair on some of the so called specials that were shown. I would suggest that most if not all of the earlier bikes you classified 'super' would have been way out of reach for the average punter. If that's agreed then the Honda CB750 has to be the winner. I recall in 1970 it was AU$1520, and that was very affordable, in fact one of the reasons the bike was so successful.
the first modern day superbike was the '85 Ninja featuring the first production, wind tunnel tested, full fairing and new radial tyres for motorbikes. i think top speed of 165(?) to this day the spirit of WSBK started there... modified, factory production race bikes.
The ninja features in other docos on the channel but it wasnt the 1st wind tunnel tested bike with a full fairing the BMW R100 rs fairing was developed in a wind tunnel.
The Honda CB 750 was the bike that brought motorcycles into the modern era but having owned three , I can honestly say my Norton Commandos were faster so I struggle to call the Honda a superbike.For me , the world 's 1st true mass production superbike was the Kawasaki Z900 a couple of years later.Its popularity 50 years later is a testament to a truly great superbike.
@@motorcyclecafe Ues they were apparently used for trike style deliveries for a good many years. I have a feeling that HD alo g with many other early builders copied designs/engineering. V twins have been around a long time and to me, the Brough bike was the gold standard... a V twin also I think.
If it was not for the triumph Trident in the 1960s we would not have the CB750 and we would not have the z900 that followed it. Honda biggest bike was there cp450 which did not sell too well. Their best-selling motorcycle was there cb350 twin which outsole c450 at 6 to 1. Honda did not think their customers really wanted a huge bike like the 750 4-cylinder which is why the first batch had sand-cast cylinders because they did not want to spend the money for die casting. Honda was going to make a 750 twin until the Trident came out in October 1968. Honda told his engineer she wanted to have a 750 4 cylinder motorcycle 🏍️ to upstage son Trident and he wanted it ready by the Tokyo show. The prototype Honda 750 had a drum brake on the front which was later changed to a disc brake. When the 750 proved to be a great seller it surprised the hell out of Honda. They got a sweetheart deal from the Japanese government to build a new factory that put out a brand new Honda 750 four cylinder motorcycle every 3 minutes.he wanted the bike to be as cheap as a triumph Bonneville undercutting the Trident but even with all of his cost-cutting measures he was only able to make it at the same price as a triumph trident 🔱. It was not built up to a standard it was built down to a price including not having a chain tensioner on the hive ochain that connected the crankshaft to the transmission something that turned around and bit him in the ass on warranty claims. Primary chain tensioners were included on all later models. When the Honda was shown at the Tokyo show Kawasaki which was making its own 750 change the bike to a 900. The Kawasaki had a better stronger engine that made more horsepower and could take a lot of abuse which is why it became the go-to engine for drag racing. Honda tried to compete with the horsepower of the kz900 by putting in radical camshaft to increase the horsepower but by 1978 the radical camshaft where mushrooming the valves. That's when they came out with the double overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder 750 in 1979.the reason it had a dry sump with an oil tank was because that was normal for all of the British motorcycles so they wanted to conform to that Norm. With everything moving in bare aluminum without bushes or bearings it became the first disposable motorcycle 🏍️ like Peter Egan of cycle world Fame said it was the first motorcycle he had that it was cheaper to buy a new one then to fix the old one. All of the older motorcycle designs were built to be rebuilt about forever ♾️. Because of the rising value of the yen compared to the dollar they had to cheapen the build of the motorcycles so they would remain affordable. When the cam chain in the engine that drove the valve train would break it would cause catastrophic engine damage that was unfixable and you had to buy another motorcycle 🏍️. All of my Honda motorcycles in spite of regular maintenance died from cam Cain breaking causing catastrophic engine damage. Gear drive is more expensive to build but is much more reliable in the long run as shown by my Harley Davidson Sportster which is 25 years old and has four hundred thousand miles on original engine. It has more miles on it then all of my Honda's put together. A triumph trident 🔱 came with good girling shocks and good Dunlop tires and a good Reynolds chain. It also handled great. The Honda 750 handled like a pig in the corners, text shock absorbers were good for keeping the fender off the tire but not much else, the Japanese tires were considered to be made out of recycled rubber bands and we're horrible in the rain 🌧️.
I think that any man that had a fast bike can callit a Superbike even if it wasn't. You've got to have lightweight maximum overpower and it can't be something that's put on a tractor if it we'll fly it will qualify!
The MV Agusta, four cylinders across the frame DOHC, OK so it was mainly a race bike but the public could buy one, it showed the way for the Japanese manufacturers to go. But the Vincent, still the fastest production bike for twenty years after it ceased production. Nothing beats that.
When you consider that the Ace's engine was less than half the displacement of a Model T engine and produced the same peak horsepower and weighed 1/3 the GVW that is pretty insane. Sure it is not overwhelmingly impressive by today's power standards but in 1920 that would be like comparing the power to weight ratio of a ZX14 Kawasaki to a 1994 base model Corvette. What is even funnier about all this is that if we look at displacement numbers of engines in motorcycles we drooled over the power of liter bikes when they came about in the late 70s early 80s from Japanese companies, but here you have an almost 1300cc inline 4 showing dominance in 1920 made by an American manufacturer. Where are the American Superbikes today? The closest thing we've had is the now defunk manufacturer named Motus that utilized a LS based design v4 engine. Sure there was Buell but can you truly call the Lightning powered by a modified Harley Sportster engine a Superbike? The new Hammerhead by Buell using a Rotax V-twin is closer to a Superbike than the Lightning from the mid 2000s. It is a shame that we do not have manufacturers in America that build machines to compete with the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Ducati, Aprilia, BMW, Moto Gusta, or even some of the Korean made bikes like Hyosung's GP/SS style machines. We build classy Cruisers. America needs to build some bikes that can compete with the full fairing race bikes of Europe and Asia.
In 1968 BSA took 4 rocket 3 assembled from the crate on the infield in Daytona raceway and then proceeded to run them around the racetrack completely stock at over a hundred and thirty miles an hour. One had to pick to tighten up a loosen chain guard so it only ran 128 miles an hour. If triumph had come out with the tridents with the traditional triumph styling back in 1965 when the bike was ready for production it would have beat the Honda 750 by 4 years. BSA wanted the motorcycle to have modern styling and even though people in the old days did not like the style of the bike I thought the BSA rocket 3 was beautiful ❤️😍. When I was learning how to ride a motorcycle I bought a book written by a British woman who had her own BSA rocket 3 on the back cover and I thought wow what a pretty bike that is. In the 1960s the British motorcycle industry could sell every motorcycle they could produce. In the 1970s they shot themselves in the foot so many times with hostile employees and crappy build quality and Jeep parts like what Norton use that caused so many warranty claims that it ran Norton out of business,the Japanese did not put the British motorcycle industry out of business the British management of the various companies ran their companies into the ground. This was also true of the British car manufacturing companies that used to make great little sports cars. The British Management in every manufacturing company in England became incompetent at all at once and their industry collapsed. The shame happened with their toy industry their model railroad industry everything that they had the management ran into the ground. Such a waste. As a kid I grew up with the Thunderbirds Captain Scarlett Zedd car one UFO 👽 space 1999 Doctor who Blake's 7 all the great sci-fi outside of Star Trek was all British. Once you are at the top of everything and you are number one there is no place to go but down 👇 sad but true. The same thing hit America 10 years later. Classic motorcycles classic cars classic sci-fi is much better than any of the crap that they make nowadays in anyting.
I preordered a GS750 before they were released in '77 and the dealer still had ten year old Rocket 3s in the crate. Although I thought about it briefly, the skinny tires and mechanical crudity of the beezer along with dubious reliability, an overheating middle cylinder problem and overall fugliness made the decision an easy one. I couldn't have been more happy with the Suzuki. She now resides in the personal collection of David Cronenberg.
Obviously the pick of the first Superbike depends on the criteria: top speed, quarter mile, handling or other peperformance characteristics. Growing up and starting to ride in 1969 the most feared bike bike hands down was the Kawasaki Mach III 500. The Honda was a sophisticated and fairly quick. The Norton 750 was quicker than the Honda 750 and a better handler than the Kawasaki 500. In my opinion the Vincent Black Lighting was hands and shoulders better in terms of performance than it peers and held that crown for longer so while maybe not the first Superbike but one that was the king of motorcycles longer.
Great progression back through time to arrive at a perfectly rational conclusion! I’d have stopped at the Vincent, but the idea of a superbike is relative to everything else that’s around at a given time, so you did the right thing. My GF’s Kawasaki 650 LAMS would give the fast bikes we rode in the 1970s a pretty good wake-up! Subscribed! 👍🏻
Thanks! And yes your gf 650 probably would give most 70s bikes a run for their money. This issue will always be subjective, i think some people are a tad biased though. American bikes did rule the roost in those early days, except for the Brough but as I mentioned that wasn't truly a production bike.
The Vincent Black Shadow might not have been the very first superbike but seeing as it was the fastest production bike for 20 years or so it truly is something special. That Ace in blue though looks fantastic.
@@motorcyclecafe the brough superior was most certainly a production motorcycle 🏍️. Granted it was not a mass-produced motorcycle but it was still production and available to customers who were discerning enough to spend more for a rough Superior than to buy a Austin 7 car 🚗 if you compare the price of a Honda 305 compared to a triumph 650 you will find that the Honda is just a little more than half the price of the triumph.
There have always been bikes that were a cut above the rest but the first "superbike" has to be the Brough Superior SS100 . It was a collection of the best parts available at the time. It cost a small fortune even when new and was the fastest bike available at the time. What more do we need to determine a first.
@@wymple09 im not sure which cost you are referring to. Todays cost or original cost. Today they sell for north of 450 thousand dollars back in the day you could pic one up for 250 dollars new.That was still a lot of money in the 1920s.
@@wymple09 fair enough . But how obtainable are the bikes we regard as "superbikes" today? I know of very few who can afford a ducati "R" versin of their panagali or even Kawasakis H2R. Sure there are tamed down versions for the masses but those arent the true superbikes if the manufacture offers an upgraded version. That version is the superbike.
The Term Superbike really referred to a racing class, limited to 750cc, which was a modified production class, very popular in its day, won by the Triumph Trident, Honda 750, and BSA 750/3, then the two strokes took over, the JPN Nortons had success too. Then the Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha strokers took over. When it was restarted, it was the Honda VFR which became the first of the true 750 water cooled, modern superbikes, until Ducati won its exception to the spec capacity limit.
@@motorcyclecafe Thank you, I was really lucky and lived those days, fantastic, everybody blowing each other away, came again for a bit in the '80s, when I was racing thru 84 to 89. One thing that everyone has forgotten was how bad they really handled out of the Box if you tried riding them fast, on the rubber of the day. With a bit of work though they did quite well, but there was a reason for all those frame builders back then.
@@iancooll12 Yer buddy I know what you're talking about, those Dunstall bikes etc still they were great days. Working on bikes is how you learn stuff these days some blokes can't even install a set of handlebars!
Very informative. I thought Superbike is something far beyond common standard. Like today 200+Hp bike. Your info gives new perspective. Thank you! To be honest reminds me a bit of definition of rock music. Chuck Berry for an example. No offence to Chuck, but it does not sound so rock today.
@@lauraiss1027 its a bit controversial, the superbike thing. I tried my best to analyze most of the potential bikes. The Ace may have had only 4 more horsepower than the Indian Plus but it was 25% more power, none of the other bikes could claim such a huge increase over their rivals. The Honda CB750 'for instance' did not have 25% more power than 'a BSA Rocket 3. Thanks for watching!
MV AGUSTA ! = beat every thing = early = so your choice was very limited ! = Brough superior = and when do you start - good point of an argument ! = vincent black knight ! ariel square four ! = your choice has RICE ! limited .
I never said a superbike is defined by a fairing if I thought that this video would not have even been produced as not one bike in it has one. But ALL superbikes since actual world superbike racing has been around do in fact have full fairings.
Black Shadow gets my vote for 1st place 🏆
Brough Superior SS100 ?
The Brough was many years ahead of the Vincent. George Brough was the man, and the SS100 was the bike.
Mine too
Black Shadow was great but couldn’t keep up with the Black Lightning
Scott Flying Squirrel, derived from the 1908 squirrel, 700cc water cooled 2 stroke by 1926 it did 85mph as standard and would reach well over 100mph if tuned, first telescopic forks ever used and plenty of other industry firsts 🙂
Yes I know Scott motorcycles led the world especially in those very early years.
I rode a 1926 Flying Squirrel in a movie stunt in the 1980's and was very impressed. The owner was a Lancaster bomber Flight Engineer who kept it in prime running condition. Riding in a muddy rutted track, the low centre of gravity provided excellent handling and the powerful engine produced very tractable horsepower compared to the high revving Japanese 2strokes.
Pretty sure the 1934 Fisker Nielsen Nimbus is the First Motorcycle to have Telescopic Forks! The Flying Squirrel didn't have Telescopic Forks, was a Grider set up with Internal Spring on the Lower Leg!
@@jarnosaarinen4583 The Nimbus was the first hydraulically damped telescopic. the early Scott had non damped telescopic forks, but dropped the design and went back to girder forks afterwards, so we are both right in different ways 🙂
The Squirrel has always been my favorite since I attended a vintage weekend at Donington Park in the early 80's. Yamaha stole the concept for the RD.
What adds a lot to those older bikes is that they were built way before most roads and highways were paved. 100 mph hardtails ridden on gravel roads.
Yeee Haaaah!!!!!
I think you had it right with the CB750. Not only was it a groundbreaking design it was available to all at a reasonable price.
It was also a reasonable weight. The Z900/1000's up until the 1980 model redesign were overweight.
I think the Black Shadow is in the elite class as well. Here in Australia it cost as much as two of our brand new Holden cars and also was the price of an average (for the time) home. So definitely out of the average wage guys back then.
Crikey! Thats good to know
Man the amount of work / research / effort / detail you put into your vids is outstanding…. Simply brilliant 👍👍👍
Wow! Thank you so much for saying that mate, you made my day. And yes it does take a lot of time. Cheers buddy
Did anyone see the owners manual that came with the CB750?
I remember cracking up over the Chinglish, & a couple of the warnings are still retained verbatim in my memory,
"When encountering the festive dog, say hai, hai, & tootle the horn melodiously";
& who could forget "beware the skid demon".
Seriously?
Not Chinese though
@@motorcyclecafe in the owner's manual also said when approaching the policeman slow down and salute him with the greeting hai-hai. And yes beware the skid demon who resides in early made Japanese motorcycle tires.
Used CB750 K1 was my first road bike, as soon as I got my P license in 1977. Cost $1000. Loved her and rode her around east coast Aus for 12 years, when I sold her for about the same $, to use a ‘59 Landrover that I’d rebuilt. I still miss the old girl. I wonder how much she’s worth today … thanks for the great info and context.
You're welcome buddy, thanks for the great feedback.
The Worlds First Production Superbike was the 1967 Norton Commando 750. The Commando was also Motorcycle News, Motorcycle Of The Year for five consecutive years. It had a production life of ten years with over 55000 units.We all have our own preferences as to what we like, my list would be long and varied.
Couldn't agree more.
And in just about the same ten years Honda made 550.400 CB 750’s. 🤷🏼♂️
Thank you for your compelling presentation. I've seen a few of these motorcycles in museums and local events. The small descreptive museum plaques don't do justice to these machines. Your full descreptions of these machines, for me, add a great deal of depth. Thank you again, Brant
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video but the obvious miss here was the H1 500 in 68 and the H2 750 in 72, both bikes started all of this and should have been included.
Those bikes are included in the channels doco "THE BIG 2-STROKES"
I consider the H1 and H2, hands down, the first Stupidbikes with power that far exceeded their handling.
@@UguysRnuts I shouldn't really comment but I gotta admit your comment did bring a smile to my dial.
I think on price alone the T120 was the first truly affordable super bike that the average working classes could afford and make their own . It was a game changer.
For the average bloke with an average income and an affordable bike capable of over 100mph you are probably not far off the mark.
Triumph T150 & Rocket 3, which was why they got the styling they did, whatever you think of it.
A Superbike has nothing to do with being affordable
@@mikeholland1031 I didn't say it did . I said in my opinion the first AFFORDABLE was the T120 . Read the comment properly.
@@iancooll12 That bloody styling by Ogle, I have no idea what possessed Triumph/BSA, about the only thing Ogle had styled up to that point was the Reliant Robin! Not only was it hideous (leading Triumph/BSA to send kits to the USA to convert the bikes back to traditional) , it delayed the release of the bike by a very crucial 18 months. The engine design had been essentially complete well before even that date.
The engine was only supposed to be an interim design to bridge to the all new modular modern engine design. Even so, it was the first production, transverse, multi-cylinder (greater than two) design, of course, someone will probably prove me wrong.
The 750 triple was based on the 250 single (bore and stroke) not the 500 twin as many people think. The bike had the performance, the later ones were very beautiful to look at and the sound!!!, but once electric start showed up, macho went out the window. I hate to say it but technical excellence will NOT trump looks when it comes to selling motorcycles, just look at the Vincent Series D Black Prince and Black Knight, technically excellent and much more comfortable due to the fairings, but not pretty, I spent a lot of time looking at the one at the Motorcycle Museum at Nabiac (New South Wales) and could find no angle where it looked good. Nabiac is fantastic, everyone in Oz should spend time there, so many unusual and fascinating machines, including Scotts, amazing how long the fundamentals of the design lasted.
One other problem was using one production line to build the two (slightly different) engines, I like both but from a marketing viewpoint and cost saving viewpoint, they should have just made the inclined BSA version.
There were ton of other issues, all solvable but unsolved due to crazy management.
Wow, you really did your research there, well done. Love the little starting clip from Stone, what a cool movie that was in its day...
Thanks buddy, i appreciate your positive feedback. Yer Stone is probably a bit lame by todays standards. I spoke with Sandy Harbutt on the phone once. Hes passed on now like many of the others.
Great historical motorcycling video, though I'm surprised that the Ariel square four didn't get a mention but my personal favourite that revolutionised the handling of Japanese bikes with it's monoshock suspension was the Yamaha RD 350LC.
Modern production line Motorcycle available to the masses HAS to be Honda CB750 four. It came with, as standard, so many modern for the day fittings, was drop dead gorgeous with awesome build quality. It set the bar so high that British motorcycle industry foundered and never caught up. I have one presently.
No offence, but I'd never consider the K1 to be "drop dead gorgeous". Well made and nicely finished, she was a bit of a brick.
@@UguysRnuts The Beauty factor of the CB 750 was partly its staggering Reliability compared to any contemporary Bikes.
@@cerealtiller Unfortunately, "reliability" has no correlation with aesthetics.
Otherwise, I'd still be driving a Jaguar as opposed to a Jetta.
@@UguysRnuts it sure does if appraised by an Engineer
Wow!! Not what I'd expected but a great surprise ending. Well done!
Thank you
My Grandfather worked at Brough Motorcycles in Nottingham he used to build the wheels 😊
Don't know what else to say but "Crikey" not many could say such a thing!
My pick of first Suzuki 500 twin 2 stroke..performed and handled..followed by Kawsaki 500 three cyl two stroke.
you would probably enjoy the channels latest video on 2-strokes make sure to watch it right until the end !
The kawasaki has a hinge in the frame.
I've got one.
When Harley-Davidson came out with the knucklehead they sued crocker and in court the judge looked at the crocker and looked at the knucklehead and told Harley-Davidson that they were lucky that crocker was not suing them. Crocker stopped making motorcycles because of WWII and then never restarted afterwards. I had an uncle who had a crocker overhead valve conversion for his Indian and it was one of the fastest motorcycles in New York City in the 1950s until it got stolen.
Yes grom all reports those crockers were certainly something special in their day!
That was a perfect piece of detective work. And the range of bikes is amazing. Thanks heaps. Simon
Your welcome Simon, thanks heaps for the great feedback!
CB 750 and Z900, great looking bikes, today
For several years in the late 1960s, the not - even- mentioned Harley Sportster was the fastest production motorcycle in the world capable of 127 mph. There were local grudge races between hotrodded Sportsters and 427 Corvettes every weekend at our race way. A Sportster held the (naked bike) land speed record (200 mph) for many years. The Sportster was produced, uninterrupted, from 1958 to 2022, also a record.
Sportys are great.
You are correct it was I mentioned this in the doco on the big bikes of the 60s. Although some disagreed it is indeed a fact. Sportsters were the bees knees for most of the sixties.
Vincent's in the 1950s were sold through Indian dealerships. According to the price list I have they started at $1,400 for a Vincent $1,600 for a black shadow and $1,800 for a black lightning made to order only. These prices for a Vincent outside of the lightning equivalent to a big Indian or Harley-Davidson full dresser motorcycle 🏍️ a GMC pickup truck of the same year was $1,200 so that gives you a perspective on prices, you could buy a good house for $5,000. The average weight for a factory worker was $200 a week
. The catalog price for a top-of-the-line Lionel train set including accessories track the whole nine yards was $79 and let's not forget everything in the Lionel train set with american-made including the box. The dollars you made back then had more buying power because they weren't pissed away financing the welfare/warfare state that we have had for over 60 years which is why a dollar is now worth a nickel.
"Welfare/Warfare State". 100% accurate.
That Mammoth is a nice looking bike. A bit heavy but I like something a bit quirky.
I wouldn't like to meet your wife in a dark alley!
The Craftsmanship back in those days, for what they had to work with, is incredible. Great Video.👍👍
Sound logic and I enjoyed seeing those machines. I've admired all of them at some time or other
thanks mate I really enjoyed making this video too!
And if you ever saw a Z900 at Bathurst campground doing doughnuts with the exhaust glowing red hot and revved to the max you'll know what reliability is.
Well done and thank you for showing us all these gorgeous motorcycles.
You're welcome & thank you for the great feedback.
Had one dad gave it away to one of my buddies when I joined the army ,78 cb 750 currently rolling a 94 cb1000r 😊
in fact the last bike is way too beautiful.
Great video! Thank you!
Great summary. No comment on conclusions since that is largely subjective--think I agree, mostly. All I have to say is I saw a Vincent in a museum when I was a teenager. Absolutely gorgeous bike.
Agree its subjective but i gave it my best shot.
My first bike is, in my heart, the first superbike. Because it's where i started my journey in bikes and life . 1972 Kawasaki 350 triple.
My favourite is the Suzuki GT380 two stroke triple! Mediocre handling, so-so top speed, but that engine sound was just sublime
Vincent Black Shadow - years ahead of the rest.
I remember and cycle magazine a reader pen a limerick about the Munch mammoth 🦣 of displacement the mammoth was munch the view from the seat was Teutonic Lee neat but a Kawasaki Z1 would eat it for lunch. I think I remembered it almost correctly
The 1984 Kawasaki GPZ900R was a very special bike. Really moved the goalposts for all other bikes to follow.
It certainly was buddy no doubt about it, I couldn't include them all. Thanks for watching.
I’ve still got my 1984 GPz 550 with 28,000 original miles. It’s definitely not the GPz 900 but it would definitely open your eyes to small displacement powered bikes
I have to agree as far as more modern machines go the Honda 750 and Kawasaki 900 started it all...👍 I have owned several of each and really enjoyed them.
To put it into perspective: The front brake of the Münch cost more than a CB750 at the time.
Making racing brakes was Friedel Münch's main source of income. Some say it was the finest drum brake ever made and practically as good as disc brakes, it was however heavier despite being made from cast magnesium alloy, much more complex and horrendously expensive.
“Apart for the gap under the seat!” My sentiments exactly. 😂
I am very happy that at least one person in the whole world agrees with me... lol. Great bike otherwise 😉
@@motorcyclecafe 🤣😂 It would have been a masterpiece with a nice tan sprung single saddle.
Really interesting video. Can't fault your reasoning. However the only one the common man can afford to buy now is the CB750. I have one that is a bit rough around the edges but runs well. Worth a mere £4k {UK pounds)
@allanthomas7345 I suppose we all make our choices. There is no such thing as the 'average bloke' Enjoy your Holden. Sounds like we are both able to enjoy life and make choices! Have fun
It’s an argument that will never be resolved. It’s been a slow evolution from the beginning. Heck in its own way the lowly Honda 305 Superhawk punched well above its displacement and cost. I’ve seen them out run a 650 Triumph. As a owner of a 75’ Z1 I’d like to think it was the first superbike but it’s just not true.
I’m just happy to be part of the community since 1965.
You're 100% correct of course. I tried my best to settle it using accurate data but the argument will go on forever.
Could you imagine if in 1948 the manufacturer of the Vincent Black Shadow was given a Suzuki Hayabusa to have a blast on......
Could you imagine in 1948 Susuki actually making a motorcycle
I reckon they might get a bit of a shock!
@@Steve-wx9gl I believe in 1948 Suzuki was making little commuter motorcycles the same way Honda was. I think they won the last Catalina Grand Prix run on the island before the rich people ran the motorcycles off the Island.
He would've said NO thanks.
Disc brake did not work at all in the wet as I went through a stop light or 2 thinking I had brakes. The rear drum would still work but working alone was not enough. Over 40 mph or more, the front disc would work as the heat would dry it fast. Under 40 and wet, it was not there.
Excellent !
You did a decent job on this video, I would suggest that the Norton Commando and the Honda CB750 share the honor as one closed out the "old fashioned" era and the other brought in the modern motorcycle era, both doing it with a BANG and in high style. I preferred the rowdy character of the Norton over the smooth sophistication of the Honda and feel very fortunate to have lived through that entire golden time, having started riding in 1961. Each decade had it's "Superbike", but what is important is what really kicked off the "Modern Superbike Age"...
Actually mate, I reckon you are 100% right! very good points indeed.
Very cool mate, Would have picked the Vincent as the first, off the top of my head but, that last bike is a work of art 👍✌😎 Nice production on the vids too 👍✌😎
Thanks and yes that Ace looks very nice. The Vincent is one of the most impressive bikes ever made. That fact will never change, cheers!
Great video man. I still have 1978 Kawasaki KZ650.
Thanks! The 650 must have a few klms on it by now
@@motorcyclecafe in the 80's and 90's, I owned 2 Z650's, and travelled over 120,000km on each.
The one I have now, I brought to re live my youth. 😂
Nice video mate ty
Good work, thank you. 😎👍
Thanks I'm glad you enjoyed watching it.
Kawasaki Z-1 900 is the real first superbike period! I was in the business over 40 years!
Wow! Excellent!
Thank you buddy!!!
Well done! If I ever hit the lottery I'll buy a Vincent. I've owned a Honda CB 750K and an F model. Great bikes! I'd get another if the right deal came up.
Thank you buddy I appreciate your comment. Safe riding!
I had the pleasure of riding a Vincent series C Rapide, when I was a young man looking for my first big Bike, for touring, nobody wanted them back then, He offered it to me for 500pounds sterling, I brought a Honda cb500t and loved it, brand new for 498 pounds, both scared the crap out of me after just passing my test on my Yam DT 175. Ever since I've lusted after one, but my preference in British Bikes is Nortons, that's why I brought the 500t I wanted a Red Norton Interstate but couldn't afford one even used. I have a few now, and I still, love them 50yrs later. I also owned a full-power silver CBX, but just traded it last year, to get my Cb450T/500t Back as I could no longer handle the weight on my legs after breaking my back years ago, I owned the CBX since the 80s, with a jet kit in Bassani 6 into 1, the best the sound and power was incredible, K & N filter etcetera, redid the suspension too, so it was an incredible Bike.
I have a VFR with full HRC engine, got lucky years ago and got the parts off an old racer, a really great Bike I unwitingly go faster on that, than anything else I ride. The 16inch front wheel sucks and no matter what you do it will never be right, untill you change it to a 17inch one, as Honda did themselves, very trecherous.Which is exactly how I managed to aford it back in 1989 crashed,the owner lost the front.
The Best Honda of the 70's was supposed to be the cb900f when they all came out, in 1978 it was only very slightly slower than a CBX and handled much better, They were both endurance race Bikes at the time and as I remember it the CBX had it, those who could ride them did very well on them, 3 yrs later the cb1100 Bol a Dor was a fantasic bit of kit but a bit dated buy then.
I remember well my mates Bottle green 1000 Kawasaki, beautifull Bike an instant classic looks as good today as it did then and it went. Magical times to be a rider, that will never come again, sad! All considered I think the VFR has to take it, with the drone of the Gear driven cams, your Joey on the Island and the first true superbike, once sorted and a genuine 150mph machine like the Vincent, also hand built, Honda lost their shirt on them.
@@iancooll12 so many great bikes over the years, some great bikes didn't even sell well. Back then you made a bike fit your own riding style, these days it's all done for you. I had a XS 850 which I put a full race fairing on, god I loved that bike even though it wasn't that good really LOL.
Very well thought out and produced, some of the engine sounds don’t quite sound right but on the whole an excellent video
The sounds are the correct bikes its hard to get anywhere near the real sounds due to the lack of bass on tv's & the like.
Cheers brother
If you include “doesn’t leak oil” the CB750 wins hands down.
My vote goes to the Vincent Black Lightning
Great Video !
Thanks!
Cyclone preceded the Ace, but not sure if it meets your criteria for what would be considered a production MC. Even though it is listed as the fastest bike of its time. I found your video interesting but also wondered about going in time in the other direction. The 1978 Kawasaki Z1R was also special and could be considered the super bike of its time. The 1990 Kawasaki ZX11 and 1999 Hayabusa certainly were as each marked a leap in both technology and speed when compared to other bikes of their era.
The Commando popping mono's....Norton's they didn't make them for everyone
Brilliant film and very well-argued. But overall, I still favour the Honda 750 because it was a leap forward in quality, technology & reliability yet still affordable to regular buyers.
Thank you, its a very contraversial subject. I dont think the term superbike was even used before the late 60's or so. But what you mentioned is on the money. I guess it really depends on how the individual looks at it.
That turned out to be a fucking good video! Good on ya, bro'! Funny and kept me guessing. I was thinking the Indian with the Henderson motor but you are spot on. ACE!😅
thanks buddy its a pretty subjective thing but I tried my best, cheers!
How much hp do you need today to do 120mph
brough superior, vincent, and honda k1 my top 3
CB 750, KZ900 and KZ1000. I personally preferred the 1000. Some might say the first was the Kawi triple or even the Black Shadow. - The presentation was much more thorough than I had anticipated. The conclusion is rather amusing being a Yankee bike.
It was a lot different way back. The American bikes pretty much ruled the roost. Its all subjective and depends on how you look at it.
Superb research again! I'm a Z900 owner but I still have to let the CB750 be first on the grounds of 4 characteristics of my Z: availability reliability affordability warranty.
thanks mate, both were/are great motorcycles!
Legend
In my opinion availability and affordability to the general public should be added to the criteria, otherwise it isn't really fair on some of the so called specials that were shown. I would suggest that most if not all of the earlier bikes you classified 'super' would have been way out of reach for the average punter. If that's agreed then the Honda CB750 has to be the winner. I recall in 1970 it was AU$1520, and that was very affordable, in fact one of the reasons the bike was so successful.
Yes of course you are correct, i did mention this in the video. Price of different bikes also depended a lot on which country you lived in as well.
the first modern day superbike was the '85 Ninja featuring the first production, wind tunnel tested, full fairing and new radial tyres for motorbikes. i think top speed of 165(?) to this day the spirit of WSBK started there... modified, factory production race bikes.
The ninja features in other docos on the channel but it wasnt the 1st wind tunnel tested bike with a full fairing the BMW R100 rs fairing was developed in a wind tunnel.
In the good old US of A that would be the Crocker motorcycle of the 1940's
The Honda CB 750 was the bike that brought motorcycles into the modern era but having owned three , I can honestly say my Norton Commandos were faster so I struggle to call the Honda a superbike.For me , the world 's 1st true mass production superbike was the Kawasaki Z900 a couple of years later.Its popularity 50 years later is a testament to a truly great superbike.
The Z1 was certainly a very special bike. Looked fantastic too!
Didn't BSA have a 1200cc bike way back when? A 'V' twin I believe commonly converted/used in a trike form to transport goods.
Yes they did but it didnt have much power it was more of a work horse.
@@motorcyclecafe Ues they were apparently used for trike style deliveries for a good many years. I have a feeling that HD alo g with many other early builders copied designs/engineering. V twins have been around a long time and to me, the Brough bike was the gold standard... a V twin also I think.
How fast was bsa's tripleout the crate
In period road tests about 120mph BSA claimed more of course
I agree !
You forgot to mention the Ducati 750 and 900 SS models. Also the MV Augusta and the Laverda Jota.
All those bikes came after the CB 750 so there wasnt really much point. All superbikes of course.
I wouldn't consider the ACE to be a contender without a front brake.
Not many bikes had a front brake in 1920, if any I'd have to look into it.
The Vincent.Or the 750 Honda. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
The Norton Commando Fastback DEFINITELY THE FIRST SUPER BIKE. in the modern era.
well there you go
Yes, question answered i believe. Thanks for watching
@@motorcyclecafe Job jobbed.
If it was not for the triumph Trident in the 1960s we would not have the CB750 and we would not have the z900 that followed it. Honda biggest bike was there cp450 which did not sell too well. Their best-selling motorcycle was there cb350 twin which outsole c450 at 6 to 1. Honda did not think their customers really wanted a huge bike like the 750 4-cylinder which is why the first batch had sand-cast cylinders because they did not want to spend the money for die casting. Honda was going to make a 750 twin until the Trident came out in October 1968. Honda told his engineer she wanted to have a 750 4 cylinder motorcycle 🏍️ to upstage son Trident and he wanted it ready by the Tokyo show. The prototype Honda 750 had a drum brake on the front which was later changed to a disc brake. When the 750 proved to be a great seller it surprised the hell out of Honda. They got a sweetheart deal from the Japanese government to build a new factory that put out a brand new Honda 750 four cylinder motorcycle every 3 minutes.he wanted the bike to be as cheap as a triumph Bonneville undercutting the Trident but even with all of his cost-cutting measures he was only able to make it at the same price as a triumph trident 🔱. It was not built up to a standard it was built down to a price including not having a chain tensioner on the hive ochain that connected the crankshaft to the transmission something that turned around and bit him in the ass on warranty claims. Primary chain tensioners were included on all later models. When the Honda was shown at the Tokyo show Kawasaki which was making its own 750 change the bike to a 900. The Kawasaki had a better stronger engine that made more horsepower and could take a lot of abuse which is why it became the go-to engine for drag racing. Honda tried to compete with the horsepower of the kz900 by putting in radical camshaft to increase the horsepower but by 1978 the radical camshaft where mushrooming the valves. That's when they came out with the double overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder 750 in 1979.the reason it had a dry sump with an oil tank was because that was normal for all of the British motorcycles so they wanted to conform to that Norm. With everything moving in bare aluminum without bushes or bearings it became the first disposable motorcycle 🏍️ like Peter Egan of cycle world Fame said it was the first motorcycle he had that it was cheaper to buy a new one then to fix the old one. All of the older motorcycle designs were built to be rebuilt about forever ♾️. Because of the rising value of the yen compared to the dollar they had to cheapen the build of the motorcycles so they would remain affordable. When the cam chain in the engine that drove the valve train would break it would cause catastrophic engine damage that was unfixable and you had to buy another motorcycle 🏍️. All of my Honda motorcycles in spite of regular maintenance died from cam Cain breaking causing catastrophic engine damage. Gear drive is more expensive to build but is much more reliable in the long run as shown by my Harley Davidson Sportster which is 25 years old and has four hundred thousand miles on original engine. It has more miles on it then all of my Honda's put together. A triumph trident 🔱 came with good girling shocks and good Dunlop tires and a good Reynolds chain. It also handled great. The Honda 750 handled like a pig in the corners, text shock absorbers were good for keeping the fender off the tire but not much else, the Japanese tires were considered to be made out of recycled rubber bands and we're horrible in the rain 🌧️.
I think that any man that had a fast bike can callit a Superbike even if it wasn't. You've got to have lightweight maximum overpower and it can't be something that's put on a tractor if it we'll fly it will qualify!
Well I dunno, but I reckon the Douchenberg doesn't sound too good.
When you declared the 69 Honda 760 the "first modern superbike", do I detect a hint of 2-stroke, (as in the Kawasaki 500) prejudice?
The MV Agusta, four cylinders across the frame DOHC, OK so it was mainly a race bike but the public could buy one, it showed the way for the Japanese manufacturers to go.
But the Vincent, still the fastest production bike for twenty years after it ceased production. Nothing beats that.
That is a very good point indeed you made about the Vincent!
Whoa, what an outstanding motorcycle video!
Thank you Amigo.
You're welcome, thank you for the compliment
Vincent Kawasaki Z1 and Ducati 888 game changers and Hyabusa and Honda Blackbird
When you consider that the Ace's engine was less than half the displacement of a Model T engine and produced the same peak horsepower and weighed 1/3 the GVW that is pretty insane. Sure it is not overwhelmingly impressive by today's power standards but in 1920 that would be like comparing the power to weight ratio of a ZX14 Kawasaki to a 1994 base model Corvette.
What is even funnier about all this is that if we look at displacement numbers of engines in motorcycles we drooled over the power of liter bikes when they came about in the late 70s early 80s from Japanese companies, but here you have an almost 1300cc inline 4 showing dominance in 1920 made by an American manufacturer. Where are the American Superbikes today? The closest thing we've had is the now defunk manufacturer named Motus that utilized a LS based design v4 engine. Sure there was Buell but can you truly call the Lightning powered by a modified Harley Sportster engine a Superbike? The new Hammerhead by Buell using a Rotax V-twin is closer to a Superbike than the Lightning from the mid 2000s. It is a shame that we do not have manufacturers in America that build machines to compete with the likes of Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Ducati, Aprilia, BMW, Moto Gusta, or even some of the Korean made bikes like Hyosung's GP/SS style machines. We build classy Cruisers. America needs to build some bikes that can compete with the full fairing race bikes of Europe and Asia.
I still say Honda cb 750 was the first , I had one. But then Z900 came along, and it took the Crown.
I had a 1970 Honda 750 K0 model and a 1978 Kawasaki Z1000. I still think that the Vincent Black Shadow was the first Super Bike.
In 1968 BSA took 4 rocket 3 assembled from the crate on the infield in Daytona raceway and then proceeded to run them around the racetrack completely stock at over a hundred and thirty miles an hour. One had to pick to tighten up a loosen chain guard so it only ran 128 miles an hour. If triumph had come out with the tridents with the traditional triumph styling back in 1965 when the bike was ready for production it would have beat the Honda 750 by 4 years. BSA wanted the motorcycle to have modern styling and even though people in the old days did not like the style of the bike I thought the BSA rocket 3 was beautiful ❤️😍. When I was learning how to ride a motorcycle I bought a book written by a British woman who had her own BSA rocket 3 on the back cover and I thought wow what a pretty bike that is. In the 1960s the British motorcycle industry could sell every motorcycle they could produce. In the 1970s they shot themselves in the foot so many times with hostile employees and crappy build quality and Jeep parts like what Norton use that caused so many warranty claims that it ran Norton out of business,the Japanese did not put the British motorcycle industry out of business the British management of the various companies ran their companies into the ground. This was also true of the British car manufacturing companies that used to make great little sports cars. The British Management in every manufacturing company in England became incompetent at all at once and their industry collapsed. The shame happened with their toy industry their model railroad industry everything that they had the management ran into the ground. Such a waste. As a kid I grew up with the Thunderbirds Captain Scarlett Zedd car one UFO 👽 space 1999 Doctor who Blake's 7 all the great sci-fi outside of Star Trek was all British. Once you are at the top of everything and you are number one there is no place to go but down 👇 sad but true. The same thing hit America 10 years later. Classic motorcycles classic cars classic sci-fi is much better than any of the crap that they make nowadays in anyting.
I preordered a GS750 before they were released in '77 and the dealer still had ten year old Rocket 3s in the crate. Although I thought about it briefly, the skinny tires and mechanical crudity of the beezer along with dubious reliability, an overheating middle cylinder problem and overall fugliness made the decision an easy one. I couldn't have been more happy with the Suzuki. She now resides in the personal collection of David Cronenberg.
Obviously the pick of the first Superbike depends on the criteria: top speed, quarter mile, handling or other peperformance characteristics. Growing up and starting to ride in 1969 the most feared bike bike hands down was the Kawasaki Mach III 500. The Honda was a sophisticated and fairly quick. The Norton 750 was quicker than the Honda 750 and a better handler than the Kawasaki 500.
In my opinion the Vincent Black Lighting was hands and shoulders better in terms of performance than it peers and held that crown for longer so while maybe not the first Superbike but one that was the king of motorcycles longer.
You're pretty much on the money with your comment buddy. It is a very controversial subject.
Bro, Vincent Black Widow.
Great progression back through time to arrive at a perfectly rational conclusion! I’d have stopped at the Vincent, but the idea of a superbike is relative to everything else that’s around at a given time, so you did the right thing. My GF’s Kawasaki 650 LAMS would give the fast bikes we rode in the 1970s a pretty good wake-up!
Subscribed! 👍🏻
Thanks! And yes your gf 650 probably would give most 70s bikes a run for their money. This issue will always be subjective, i think some people are a tad biased though. American bikes did rule the roost in those early days, except for the Brough but as I mentioned that wasn't truly a production bike.
The Vincent Black Shadow might not have been the very first superbike but seeing as it was the fastest production bike for 20 years or so it truly is something special. That Ace in blue though looks fantastic.
I would havs stopped at the Vincent too but stayed to the bitter end!😂
@@allistairneil8968 yer well the Vincent was certainly something special thats for sure!
@@motorcyclecafe the brough superior was most certainly a production motorcycle 🏍️. Granted it was not a mass-produced motorcycle but it was still production and available to customers who were discerning enough to spend more for a rough Superior than to buy a Austin 7 car 🚗 if you compare the price of a Honda 305 compared to a triumph 650 you will find that the Honda is just a little more than half the price of the triumph.
A fair reckoning, I'd say. Wonder how many Ace sold?
Thanks I doubt anyone knows how many Aces sold
Ironically the term superbike to my knowledge was only promoted in the early 70s .
I think so but I 'm not sure
@@motorcyclecafe I was there !
There have always been bikes that were a cut above the rest but the first "superbike" has to be the Brough Superior SS100 . It was a collection of the best parts available at the time. It cost a small fortune even when new and was the fastest bike available at the time. What more do we need to determine a first.
Cost
@@wymple09 im not sure which cost you are referring to. Todays cost or original cost. Today they sell for north of 450 thousand dollars back in the day you could pic one up for 250 dollars new.That was still a lot of money in the 1920s.
@@elmerfudd1086 His criteria was that it had to be obtainable by the masses. It was not.
@@wymple09 fair enough . But how obtainable are the bikes we regard as "superbikes" today? I know of very few who can afford a ducati "R" versin of their panagali or even Kawasakis H2R. Sure there are tamed down versions for the masses but those arent the true superbikes if the manufacture offers an upgraded version. That version is the superbike.
@@wymple09 dont get me wrong....i love motorcycles but I dont think any bike is worth 450 thousand dollars.
I mean Vincent, not Norton
The later years some were built for the common rider and early in this biker age some only for the very rich.
The Term Superbike really referred to a racing class, limited to 750cc, which was a modified production class, very popular in its day, won by the Triumph Trident, Honda 750, and BSA 750/3, then the two strokes took over, the JPN Nortons had success too. Then the Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha strokers took over. When it was restarted, it was the Honda VFR which became the first of the true 750 water cooled, modern superbikes, until Ducati won its exception to the spec capacity limit.
Thats right, its a term that gets thrown around pretty loosely these days. Thanks for watching mate!
@@motorcyclecafe Thank you, I was really lucky and lived those days, fantastic, everybody blowing each other away, came again for a bit in the '80s, when I was racing thru 84 to 89. One thing that everyone has forgotten was how bad they really handled out of the Box if you tried riding them fast, on the rubber of the day. With a bit of work though they did quite well, but there was a reason for all those frame builders back then.
@@iancooll12 Yer buddy I know what you're talking about, those Dunstall bikes etc still they were great days. Working on bikes is how you learn stuff these days some blokes can't even install a set of handlebars!
Very informative. I thought Superbike is something far beyond common standard. Like today 200+Hp bike. Your info gives new perspective. Thank you! To be honest reminds me a bit of definition of rock music. Chuck Berry for an example. No offence to Chuck, but it does not sound so rock today.
@@lauraiss1027 its a bit controversial, the superbike thing. I tried my best to analyze most of the potential bikes. The Ace may have had only 4 more horsepower than the Indian Plus but it was 25% more power, none of the other bikes could claim such a huge increase over their rivals. The Honda CB750 'for instance' did not have 25% more power than 'a BSA Rocket 3. Thanks for watching!
MV AGUSTA ! = beat every thing = early = so your choice was very limited ! = Brough superior = and when do you start - good point of an argument ! = vincent black knight ! ariel square four ! = your choice has RICE ! limited .
Kawasaki 900cc Z1B Gets my no 1 Spot
All awesome Bikes though
Who told you a superbike is defined by its fairing? That's ridiculous!
I never said a superbike is defined by a fairing if I thought that this video would not have even been produced as not one bike in it has one. But ALL superbikes since actual world superbike racing has been around do in fact have full fairings.