LOW BUCK, JUNKYARD 454 BBC BATTLE-GEN 5 vs GEN 6
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2021
- TBI VS TPI, CARB VS CARB, 230 HP VS 290 HP-WHO WINS? WHAT IS THE BEST CHOICE FOR A JUNKYARD BBC BUILD UP? CAN THE GEN 5, TBI 454 MAKE POWER? CAN IT MAKE GEN 6 454 POWER? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU UPGRADE EACH WITH A CAM? CAN YOU REALLY GO WRONG WHEN YOU START WITH 454 CUBIC INCHES OF ANY MOTOR? THIS VIDEO HAS IT ALL, SO CHECK IT OUT!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
I love the enthusiasm and excitement from your voice it's so encouraging
Where is this magic junk yard with all the bbc engines? We don’t get that in the Midwest
Just picked up a gen6 454 for $300. Still plenty of good deals here in Ga.
Can’t find them in Virginia 😞😞😞
I see them all the time in the pull-a-part yards here in Michigan
@@Phil-rs5wl
Well, I live in central Indiana. Maybe I need to bring my trailer up there and load up. If you can find one around here it will cost you about $1000
When they did the cash for clunkers program, they put block filler in the engine's, and crushed the cars.
So ultimately a Gen 6 with some head porting an slightly more compression and that same 274 roller cam should be a screaming runner, almost 500hp and tons of torque
Thank you for the video and endless knowledge we appreciate all you do for us 👍 thanks for sharing
So, the moral of the story is, the gen 5 would be a perfect platform to turn into a 496 with some AFR 265 heads. Apply boost as-needed until either your block cracks, or your lips crack from all the smiling.
Thank You for Sharing to update my 1980s head choices!
Real Master in 454 Ireally learn alot from you videos i am build my 1983 gmc 454 engine i really see alot of info that i learn from your videos worth alot thanks Richard Holdene
Buddy of mine has a 454 SS pickup, he's putting on oval port heads and a cam/springs, but is sticking with the factory intake and throttle body system. I'll have to show him this video to try to change his mind on it, this really shows how much that intake is holding back the stock Gen 5 motors, and the problem will get only worse as the rest of the motor gets better.
There are tbi mods that can be done.
Considering that a intake swap and carb is going to be the least expensive parts in comparison.. its kind of a no brainer, heads can only breath as much as the intake allows. If he wants to keep a throttle body on it, the sniper EFI system is pretty slick.
@@shadowopsairman1583 @ShadowOps Airman1 Mods to the stock TBI parts help, but they'll still hold back an engine with upgraded heads and cam. A self-tuning TBI system like FiTech on a standard single plane intake will make much more power. Stock TBI isn't really ideal, even with that Comp 256H cam. It's simple and will never leave you stranded(I'd rather have TBI over messing with a carb any day), but not the best for power.
This gen 5 engine with that cam, headers/exhaust and FiTech would be great for a street/work truck, I'd like to have that combo in a 73/74 C10 with an OD manual.
I smashed the link button - great to see Big Blocks again!!
Gen 6/7 BBC are more like the LS than Mark1-Gen5.
Gen5 454 is like the Tbi 350/305.
They can handle Super and Turbo Charging
Love the big block. I would like to see a 396/402 in basic stock then bump it up a bit. The 402 just might be the least expensive in the low deck BB.
We’ve learned they both need BOOST😉
yes
Agreed me and my buddy just helped his step dad twin turbo his 87 gmc c10 454 I wanna know how much power he's pushing on 10 pounds
Nitrous
@@andrewfree6334 Absolutely do!
My cousin and I are doing the same thing to his 89 GMC 3500 long bed straight side
Like real power! I'll leave my hair dryer in the bathroom and enjoy reliability over destruction
Finally some big block content
Hi from Australia love ya work .
This is good info. Thanks for the video. My renter has a gen 5 454 with at least 350k and probably closer to 500k, as the odometer broke at 350k about 20 years ago. The old girl has a bad fuel pump and the trans has wiring issues but she runs good considering how many miles this truck has on it. I want to do something with the truck, but money and time is making something like a rebuild tough. We'll get around to it someday. It's a sentimental truck for him so we do need to get it back on the road but she's tired with an estimated 500k.
They would make good daily's in a 3/4 ton truck... Low buck that's for sure Great Video
Prediction- Awesome vid!
That's good stuff. From the Summit Racing site I also learned that they still have 496 long blocks making 575hp, with alloy heads. And I've seen 610hp/665tq combos elsewhere, that would do wonders for a 2500 Suburban LT...Or add boost to your 370hp version, for better efficiency climbing mtn. passes.
You tricky ol man! I was thinking LS5 and LS6 until i saw the engine cover and TBI... Tricky, lets see that throw down w mild mods. I know its very cost prohibitive
I just bought a 454... how would I tell which 454 it is and it got they feel injection intake on it just like the one you showed in the picture... and I love how you explain and break all your work down that helped a lot thank you❤️💪🏾💯
if it has the EFI I showed-that is from a Gen 6 (also look at the front cover-if it is plastic-its gen 6)
I NEVER comment. But these big block junkyard videos are CRACK to me! I want/need more! Also have you done the Big Bang yet on the stock bottom end gen 6 yet!? I know in another video you had said it was in line but that was some time ago. Love your videos. From one Richard to another, thanks!
Awesome video Richard. Question: the Weiand inlet manifold used on the Gen V, was it the street warrior part #8122 specifically for peanut port heads. Or was it a large oval port manifold?
Nice truck / towing combo with that gen vi . any recommendations for getting more power out of the stock TPI with that cam/header combo ?
The Gen 5 454 fuel pressure regulator on the tbi needs to be changed and adjusted, if there are AM 454 FI for the TBI change them, and port flow and valve job the gen 5 heads.
You can always switch to a roller cam, solid roller tappet/lifters or even hydraulic tappets, roller rockers. Or change the stock heads to AM, or switch to TPI.
Also if using the 1987-1995 ECM/PCM replace the eeprom with a superchip.
I was wondering if you could do a video on comparing 6.0ls to 454 na. I have seen the 4.8 vs the world video. I have a C10 and I'm trying to decide between the 454 or 6.0 I have both setting on engine stands. I have looked there's very little videos comparing bbc to ls. Keep up the good work the Engine Info is why I used to read the magazines.
Love the 454ss trucks from the 90s
With the gen 5 and a tbi would a vortec head, intake swap and cam work with the stock tbi and make for a good tow rig? Would the tbi even run this setup? Not interested in high RPM just looking for a torque towing rig.
Nice upgrade to the big block I'm doing something similar also with another 454 a gen 5 I'm installing a comp hydraulic roller Bootlegger cam with a set of early closed chamber oval Port heads that have been machine for the larger valves and better Springs to match the cam my plan down the road is to put it inside of my 78 Buick Regal with two turbos cruise around on the street daily driver as you seen with the other projects in my shop that I'm doing LOL I'll send you some pictures
GOOD LUCK
Pick your part junkyards in California back in the 90s thru 2010s was very hard to find Chevy big blocks in anything! I remember the yards would have written on the windshield “pull BB engine” to be sold separately. That is if you could find them! But that has changed. I see gen V and gen Vi often now GMT400 pickups
Id like to build an l21 swap heads, cam and intake plus do pistons with valve relief so you can run a monster cam. The l21 already has forged lowered just needs pistons to be beast. Push it to around 700hp na then add boost. Keep a 4l80 behind it and swap the converter. Should make lots of clouds on the street.
I want to do this with my k2500 motor swap. I think the 6.5 turbo diesel factory torque convertor is like a 3400 rmp stall so I've been told
Would love to see a gen vi with cam and torqstorm. Been thinking about that combo for my 58 c60
I would like to see the tbi 454 on a dyno. I have a 1995 3500 HD. 10 lug rollback tow truck with this engine. The 454 is very weak even when running empty. Really considering a carb and intake maybe same small cam you ran on this Gen 5 combo
Was that the Weiand street warrior 8122 manifold for peanut port heads? have one on the shelf waiting to go on my 330hp marine 454, cant wait to get rid of the low rise iron piece
I wonder what the best MPG of all these combo's would get ?
Why don't you do a dodge 318 and 360 shootout or big bang motors
We need that Big Bang gen6 bbc
I got a sbe gen 6 454 and 107mm promod turbo on the shelf !
Curious what your final timing came out to on the gen 6 with stock cam for optimal performance
any chance you can find and run a Mark IV and see how much power you can get out of it with flat tops?
Hey Richard! I have a Gen 5 454 with a Whipple supercharger on the factory TBI intake (Very weird setup that was apparently dealer installed on my 1995 suburban). Got the entire vehicle for $900 with intent to swap the engine over to my 72 Camaro. What do you think I should do with the engine? I want to make more power but the supercharger works with the stock TBI. Not sure if I'd make more power just putting an intake and carb on it, or keeping the supercharger.
I started out with factory TBI & computer years ago before aftermarket tbi injection kits were economical. Ported factory tbi, thinner blades, higher fuel regulator spring, 454ss injectors on an RPM intake with a tbi adapter, Patriot heads, and an XE268 cam, which was about the most duration we could tune the factory computer (burning a chip). It would have been way cheaper and much less limited if they offered Fitech or sniper kits back then. Needless to say I went with a carburetor after the freshen up! Great videos BTW!
What would you recommend for a gen 5 tow vehicle just to improve day to day performance?
Right on
Two possibly non-related tests for you to consider, Richard: first: is it the 2 barrel carb or the manifold that costs horsepower? Pop a 2bbl on a good dual plane and see what happens. Second: how much do carbs actually flow? Is a 750 a 750, is a 600 a 600? How does a 500 CFM 2bbl compare to a 600 4bbl under the same condition on a flow bench? How does this all relate to power?
I'M TESTING THE CARBS DOWN AT WESTECH
2bbl kills the power no question. Doesn't matter howbig your lungs are, you won't be able to take a deep breath with your teeth clenched as quickly as you would if your mouth was wide open.
Engine masters did a test on 650 vs 750 vs 850 CFM carbs ALONG with actual CFM of flow. To keep it short, all 3 carburetors on an identical engine will flow roughly the same amount of air (was roughly 30CFM difference between the 650 and 850 on a 383 chevy), but the bigger carburetor will lose drivability and horsepower pretty much everywhere (slight, between 2 and 5 numbers) on an engine that doesn't need it because it doesn't have enough much vacuum signal to spray fuel out the boosters.
I’d like to see a video on the L21 with the factory injection in place, maybe a guy wants to keep fuel injection but make a little more power without changing up to much? Edelbrock heads? Cam? Intake porting? Or?
So the first comparison is really the same block with an updated head/cam combo. Are there any differences in short block between the two?
Have you considered using OBS to record your webcam so you can get rid of the watermark from the other software?
Please do a 440 with Cam modern cylinder heads and decent compression
I have a 89 crew cab one tow chevy. Planning on installing a gear venders and doing a cam and maybe even a gen6 head swap. What would be a too low of a cruising rpm with 12k lb trailer behind. I’d love to see 2200 rpm at cruise
I was really wanting to put the 2015 or so Buick regal 4 popper turbo in my 1995 Saturn SL2. 259 HP 295 TQ ecotech, can always up the boost a little bit, has terrific torque and decent power for it's size. My suspension is already upgraded and lowered and wanted to also add a set of RPF1 Enkei's which will save me another 4 lbs a wheel also, would be very quick with that plastic body and I got a Seibon carbon fiber hood on it too. Maybe some carbon fiber seats as well? Buick is a great car, love your show man!!!
I've been looking for a Buick Verano Turbo with a 6-speed manual trans. Very rare.
Idk about the 4 cyl Buick but those 3.8 supercharged are nice 😉👌
@@xmo552 Yeah, they are both good engines, the 3.8L V6 is obviously more potential but the ecotech Buick 4cyl turbo is the same as in the SS Cobalt and can still handle up to 400 HP without any modification to the internals, etc.
@@junechris
Oh I wasn't thinking.....yeah those EcoBoost can hurt Honda feelings. I remember when it debut someone ran one at Bonneville.
@@xmo552 Duratech, Ecotech both great
Intro music rocks!
Who makes a adjustable timing set for a vi and a after market timing cover
I know some have mentioned it in reference to the 8.1L I was wondering if you have seen anything notable as far as aftermarket parts sine the new aftermarket 8.1L out now. How would it hold up against a 454 or a LS small block?.... 8.1L boosted to blow its guts out would be something I'm sure no one would want to see. Lol
The 8.1 isn't really that good of an engine. Sure stock it is great but performance wise it sucks
What roller rockers clear those valve covers
Does a conventional bbc oval port intake like an Edelbrock Performer, fit right onto the gen 6?
Hey sir I appreciate your channel…I have a 2000 gen6 454. I want to put on cam heads and headers, stock intake. Can you suggest a cam and head combo for me? I do tow. Tia
It would be interesting to see what a Low lift high Duration cam's results look like then compare another cam (or 2) that have the same Duration, Same LSA but highter lift on a stock style cam (not a radical ramp and a flat peak).. I havea 96 Viper with a factory cam (107 LSA I believe) and thus alot of overlap....I am looking into changing the LSA to 115 and running more duration so as to keep the stock sounding idle.
A STOCK VIPER CAM HAS NO OVERLAP
What are the years for the generations?
What is the intake manifold to carb swap a gen 5 motor?
Sweet, I have a 6th gen laying around.
I was just looking at a 1999 chevy truck with a 454.
Run the TBI 454 ON THE DYNO, NO 4 BBL AND NO HEADERS
BBC for the win on the streets anyday... Seen a 496 stroker knock the dust off a ls7 corvette in "Mexico" this past weekend👀👀👀 Gaaaaap🗣️
Mex has all the best 😉👌
I love the gen 6
I think u meant 381hp not 281hp for the gen 5 cam upgrade
I was thinking the samething. The gen v made less with a cam swap?🤣
my gen 6 should really wake up my old g10 van..cant wait
HELP
I need to find an Edelbrock 79-555 aluminun big block chevy head !
Did the vlv train stay stock on the gen 6
Hey Richard love the content!! You've made me decide to run the 276 hr cam in l29 equipped chapparel boat!! Could u please tell me the part numbers for the beehive springs and keepers and rotator eliminator please
THAT COMBO DOESN'T WORK WELL
@@richardholdener1727 the prob with most mild marine cams I'm looking at with the duration I want have over 510 lift.... I'm confused why a mild cam like this with almost no power loss down low would make this a bad combo....it will be carburated with a dry exhaust
@@richardholdener1727 it's actually almost identical to an upgraded marine cam for a magnuim 454 except less lift
has anyone developed a cam lobe where the Ramp up to the peak (from the base) was different than the ramp down to the base circle?
YES-PEOPLE CHANGE OPENING AND CLOSING RAMP RATES ALL THE TIME
Richard can I run a XR271HR-12 In a stock bottom end gen 6 454
you have to do a 4.2l trailblazer motor bigbang
Yesssss
The American Barra
@@keelangerken5154 yup
What is the Biggest 1 BBL carb you could modify, and how big of a motor could that run on?
Umm
So what gasket do I use to put the gen 6 head on my gen 5 tbi
Anyone know where I can find similar headers to the ones he use?
summit racing
Richard, I wonder how close the gen 5 would be to the gen 6 if you used the same cam that was in the gen 6 in the gen 5.
The gen 6 had 204/209 duration at .050 and .480/.483 lift with 118 LSA compared to 193/203 duration with .398/.430 lift and 112 LSA on the gen 5.
There is about a 35 horse difference, I would guess the compression difference is worth about 20 horse. I would think the peak hp was moved up in the rpm's with the gen 6 cam. That makes me curious on what that cam would do in a gen 5.
If you move the gen 5 torque numbers up 300 rpm witch would match where the gen 6 makes peak hp. If my guestinations are correct, that would add about 20 horse.
So wherein lies the gains of the gen 6 over the gen 5? Something tells me the head flow doesn't have much to do with it. Stein Weiss's web page would suggest that further too. 🤔 I wish I had a dyno.
Have a Gen 5 with oval port 118 open chambers any suggestions for cam w/o piston to valve clearance.. I want the biggest cam I can go🥴No roller stuff 😂
Can you do one with a gen 4 tryna see what I can do for mine
Not that much different than the gen 5 (performance-wise), aside from carb vs TBI, if you're talking about a truck 454.
We had a gen4 454 in a motorhome and I Know a 383 could easily out power that engine, that's my guess, gen 4 366 has a forged crank and nice rods, and oval port heads, add that to your 454 to build a 427 with
I know this is an older video but could you please explain the process and requirements to make more power with the gen 5. I am getting so many conflicting results trying to research how to cam swap and what's compatible and how to swap gen 6 heads on the gen v and stuff like that. How much lift can I use, can i use hydraulic roller tappets? What heads can I use?
YOUR LIMIT IS THE TBI
How about plopping gen 6 heads on a gen 5, since that’s about the only low buck head upgrade. Keep up the good work! 🍻
I did that
What do you consider a good price for a junkyard gen 454. Considering replacing my 396 I. My SS 396 68 Impala with either a 454 or 502. Trying to keep it looking stock but looking for at least another 150 hp over the 396. Or would you just build the 396 to get more power.
BIGGER IS BETTER-396 IS DIFFERENT-ALSO COOL
I rescued a gen 4 out of the wrecking yard. Rebuilt it.
Which i never messed with it. Nobody wants it.
Mark 4 BBC is good
Wondering what intake gasket you used on the gen 6
FEL PRO BBC OVAL PORT GASKETS
I got an idea for a killer test. Why not run that 372 with a bunch of old intakes? We all have old intake manifolds hanging around. I personally have a had a Torker and I have a c3bx.
Yeah I'd like to see a torker intake compared to other intakes. I have to run one due to hood clearance.
Richard. Question. I have a Gen V 454 and going to use 336781 heads. Should I use a Gen 5 head gasket? I heard stories of even the head bolts not lining up. Can you clear this up? Thank you.
I'm not sure on that-have to do some research
I'd love to see this done with the Holley efi sniper. Really cheap fuel injection that will support 650hp. IDK it's a thought
I don't get the Sniper. I've tuned 7 different system at this point. That thing about them being self-learning is bogus. Sure they do that, but they are incredibly dump apparently.
All I've seen and tuned, had parameters that would inevitably hurt the engine.
TB injection is fine, but don't for one second think that you don't need a proper tune from either the rollers or the road by someone who can map. The maps they store are absolute garbage.
What about the edelbrock top end kit for the gen 5 ?
YES
Hey rich whats a good combo for a stock gen 6 looking for cam intake ,carb ,values springs ect using stock heads
650 brawler, dual plane rpm or air gap, small cam as shown in vid
I have one out of a suburban What oil pan would I need to drop a one of these gen 6 in a 65 Chevelle? any help would be great thanks
Not sure on pan fitment for specific chassis
Are you running the stock lifters, push rods, rockers and valve springs with the upgraded cams?
IT SHOWS WE CHANGED SPRINGS
Are you watching the whole video?
@9:32 - I think that's suppose to be 381hp.
I'm building a gen 5 454 I'm installing tg e gen 6 heads. WHAT'S THE BEST CAM 276 or 282 xtream energy cams. I'll be upgrading my springs as well ..
i LIKE THE 276
When adding a higher lift cam (.500+ lift) to the gen 5, do you run into valve guide to spring retainer clearance issues?
YES
Hey Richard, have you done a video with the Mark IV with peanut port / truck heads? I have a 1984 454 out of a motorhome and am curious how those heads compare to the stock heads from a Gen 5 or 6.
Thank you for all that you do, you're an amazing source of information and motivation for our projects.
we used peanut ports on the big bbc head test
Do a test on a gen 4
Do it on the gen 7 8.1l vortec
@Richard Holdener Will a Gen 5 flywheel work on a Gen 6? The factory gen6 has a very narrow contact for a clutch contact. The gen5 has a wide machined surface. Thanks for your insight.
gen 5 and gen 6 have different balance weights
@@richardholdener1727 I figured if anyone would know it would be you! Thanks for the input!!
Does anyone know if u can use a gen 5 flywheel on a gen 6 or the other way around
I don't think the balance weight is either the same or in the same position
Richard,got a question. Does OBD1 recognize compression? Thinking about putting a set of Edlebrock TBI heads with 110cc combustion chamber heads. Will this mess with the ECM?
it does not-nor does any factory ECU-there are not cylinder pressure sensors. It might recognize a change in airflow (MAF) or AF ratio from the change in compression
Richard please tell us what optimum timing is on gen 6 🙏 i hear anywere from 8 intial 29 total to 14 intial 36 total????. This is of courses with carb hei distributor cam headers Thanks justin
ours made best power at 29
@@richardholdener1727
How do guys tune with a vacuum gauge and tach? When I've tried it... I end up putting the tools away and I get better results with the butt dump, but I feel I may be leaving some on the table.
what about TBI from a gen5 454 on a olds 455, stock RV cam , we have a GMC motor home, not looking for more power or RPM just easy starts and reliability, do not have room for a taller intake.
Do it
what is the expected hp and tq gain in a gen 6 with a ZZ502 cam, standard duel plane intake?
have not run that cam
The zz502 cam is slightly larger, so power will be better on the top end, I expect 15hp or so. ZZ502 cam is .527/544 lift, 234/244 on 110 love centers. Have to watch piston to valve clearance, especially on intake side. My build .040 over KB pistons using the ZZ502 cam, truck oval ports, dual plane intake. Expect 430hp or so, 530+ tq.
I love that you run this old junk on the Dyno for cheapasses like me. I have both of these engines in my stable.
you HAD. Richard has them now. lol
@@bobbobby1846 Well they made alright numbers, didn't they?
@@Supercharged111 i was talking about how rich stole your motors you had.
@@bobbobby1846 I know