HUGE Rework for DOCTRINES and SUPPORT Companies!
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2023
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#hoi4 #heartsofiron4 #devdiary - Hry
Hear me out.
1. Play Nationalist China.
2. Choose Mass Assault/Right
3. (After pushing out Japan...) Use 25-battalion infantry divisions; 40-width pure infantry.
4. Use Field Hospitals in your template for the extra HP, flame tanks for the extra breakthrough
5. Remember to pick the doctrine that gives extra hit points to your divisions.
6. Maybe MP to stack that recovery rate.
Profit!
wouldnt that suck up a lot of supply?
@@chernoblyat.152 would also lower org
@@OddReal not with all those infantry battalions you'd have at least 50+ org with mass assault
@@chernoblyat.152 No. It's infantry in the end. And naturally one of the five support companies would be logistics.
@@vixen878 right forgot that mass assault does that, because there has never been one time ive used it unironically or without being forced to xdddd
Hi, modder here. "Leg Infantry" refers to units that have the category "category_light_infantry" (categories here being that a type of battalion can have multiple classifications, like that infantry proper has the categories "category_front_line", "category_light_infantry", "category_all_infantry", and "category_army").
The following battalions have the category_light_infantry category and thus receive the additional entrenchment from engineers:
- Infantry proper
- Bicycles
- Marines
- Mountaineers
- Paratroopers
- Fake intel units
- Penal battalions
- Irregular battalions
- Militia
There are penal battalions in Hoi4???
@@enrixosjjdjd187 Yes.
@@enrixosjjdjd187 Exclusive to the Soviets if I remember correctly.
It's too bad that engineers don't do much for offensive units. IRL, combat engineers were (are) EXTREMELY important for blasting through obstacles, building bridges, building roads, and the like for offensive operations. I know that techs do confer a 'flamethrower' aspect on engineers that increase fort attack and such, but it's small potatoes.
Agree - there could be a separate combat engineer support company like in the Black Ice mod. Or maybe doctrines can make your regular bob the builder engineers into combat engineers ?
They do help offensive units. They help movement speed in rough terrains and attack in forts, urban, and across rivers. They are still good for offense in a way. They're just on the edge of being good enough.
Fortifications are just laughably underpowered in HOI4. You can use pure infantry with support artillery to crack them if you have fort-buster and use the special ability.
Engineers give you a 25% attack bonus against fortifications, which is massive, and if forts weren't so laughably easy to circumvent, engineers would matter a lot more.
7 years for a rework
@@ratkovac7they are adding a nordic dlc
@@ratkovac7
Paradox add new features that modders can use in their mods!
That is not a bad thing at all!
@@haukionkannel many of those features they took from modders in the first place like propaganda campaigns and less than 70 day focuses.
reminder hoi4 team is like,5 people at the core,most of the time they also poach devs from other games in PDX too so that's pretty sad
I still think it’s silly the doctrines were designed to be mutually exclusive (pick one). I liked HoI3’s system where they weren’t exclusive trees but just ‘sections’ of doctrine research that let you prioritize what you wanted to do.
I think how HOI 3 handled tech in general is better especially the naval and air
it makes more realistic sense just becase your doing a blitz now doesnt mean you forget how to build trenches
the practical and theoretical system used in that game was groundbreaking and second to none. Wish it would return.
HoI3 was vastly superior in general
In my own (unpublished) support rework mod I already had a basic implementation of some of these ideas and it's quite lovely and reassuring to see them coming to vanilla. 😊
The clock is ticking🗿
Bicycles per battalion should give morale boost called mail delivery but have a pop up called the DEAR JOHN letter that happens around valentines day for morale loss that month!
Japan did get Singapore with Bicycle battalions they're just horses your don't have to feed
Jody is coming for your girl.
Would only work for US I think lol
I'm pretty sure most other countries either didn't celebrate or celebrated St. Valentine's day very differently before the Allies won World War 2
I feel like the changes are specifically to force the game out of its stagnation. Also "Matching artillery" would mean that tank recon works only for tanks. Regular recon would not add soft attack to tanks, mechanized or infantry. Only the artillery.
Taureor using 7/2??!😂 You need to watch him more, he just go plain 20w infantry every game
Extending the armored car comment, they could do that with mechanized too. Have road wheels restrict a design either to a armored car or for cheaper mechanized (which can have either wheels or tracks), and for the turret, add a troop transport option, or restrict the type of weapons you could put onto a mechanized design if you designate it as mechanized. You can either make something more like the German halftrack (maybe higher speed, defense, cheaper, and can add the additional machine guns), or you can try to build something like a WW2 version of the Russian BTR with an auto cannon or even a small cannon (more expensive, but higher armor and more attack bonuses). That way, you further remove the need to research mechanized equipment and armored car equipment, and bonuses for different modules are within the artillery/anti-tank and tank tech trees. This could even incentivize minor nations to try and go for these cheaper alternatives to tanks if they don't need to spend more time researching them with limited slots, but still have the option to try and go for tanks because they'll already have the research unlocked. And for PDX, encourage people to get the DLC for the tank designer if they don't already.
well, the reason everyone uses engineers on tanks is cause of the terrain buffs on forts and such, they're still definitely worth it for that, nobody uses engineers on tanks for entrenchment as far as im aware
About the armoured car, what I understand is that an armoured car is basically a light tank on wheels so that shouldn't be a separated category by a specific tank from the tank designer
Hoi4 is @$$ backwards. Engineers and recon are us mainly use for offense irl rather than defense. WW2 example: Soviet shock divisions were loaded with extra engineers battalions from assaults and breaching enemy front lines.
I think the engineer rework is back to front: An engineer support of 1,000 men (whatever it is) should be able to dig (or supervise) awesome trenches quickly for a one battalion div of 1,000 men, but really struggle to dig trenches for all the 20,000 men of a 20 battalion div ?? Of course, a 2 width div is still going to be rubbish. Also I think it would be more logical if Field Hosp gave org recovery rather than MPs ? AC buff - yes. MMM
This can be really easily explained as 'Engineers do the thinking, grunts do the digging'.
Assuming they keep the soft-attack value on dispersed support the same (which is admittedly questionable) the recon effect on artillery makes DS much more viable. If you stack doctrine + recon youre getting 20% soft attack on your line battalions. This is still less effective per artillery piece than Integrated but it makes the overall soft attack potential of Dispersed far greater than for integrated if you can support the production cost.
16:51 it is possible, i saw it some mod.. it was fallout one if i remember coreectly. some kind of combat chips or something like this
They really need to do something with armoured cars. They are such a cool idea that could have so much potential but there's absolutely no use to build them.
In my opinion they could buff soft attack if the recon company is added to armoured divisions, perhaps giving a choice between armoured recon and armoured car recon?
Or, at least, create a special support company for them, much like flame tanks have their own unique support comany. I just feel like armoured cars could be such a good feature and at the moment they're completely forgotten about, and it seems like they will still be for the forseeable future.
A small change, much like is shown, won't really be enough, there's just no use to build them. Perhaps if certain nations got buffs to them, much like Italy with the Bandit Warfare focus, then they'd be used, but armoured cars would just be so cooooool
100% agree, armored cars have the potential to be a core necessity of any army, they give the highest recon value of all the recon support companies and give a small amount of armor to standard infantry divisions (not quite enough to be noticeable but hey armor is armor). I think with the tweaks paradox is going to add, the buffs recon could get could change the meta if only slightly
I would like to see some synergy between recon and air doctrine. Perhaps even with spies ie like if you hav recon in a division you can get extra bonuses if you have active recon planes in a region or spies.
I feel there could be de-strength build comparing to the current de-org builds in this update
They should do something for (German) rockets, they should do something for nukes, they should do something for Austria (Austrian Austria-Hungary and they should do something for the AI (so that we need piercing in single-player).
They should split engineers into 2 categories imo, offensive ( movement speed and certain terrain bonuses ) and defensive ( entrenchment )
I hope these are just infantry changes and tank/air support changes are to follow - as this could end up being tank nerf 2.0
As long as they don’t ruin my beautiful Grand Battle Plan 🙏🏻
Edit, like 2 minutes in and they already fussed with entrenchment 😭
its time to put more infantry batts in your div template :sob:
You're going to want field hospital hp bonus for your tank divisions. That means slow tank divisions with leg infantry, unless you have access to bicycles. At least early game until you get good mechanized.
When I play Japan always have my 7-2 with 6 inf-2 Art and 1 Bicycle!
Where is Calvary and Camels and bicycle battalions in doctrines LMAO
Signal companies should be REQUIRED to be able to do the coordinate CAS button. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s like you click it for command power loss and it’s a dude on a radio and you get extra CAS.
That extra CAS bonus should only apply to units with that support company. It’s like “radios” for the tanks. Obviously units IRL with a Headquarters company (which would likely be the signals irl) is going to be able to coordinate CAS and other assets better than a BN without an HQ co
I hope in the future more country get unique focus three :)
I think its because for let say a 20 infantry batalion a suport Anti tank company was still only 12 pieces and gave X.
this meant that in most case if you could afford it a 6 infantry ballation whit 1 anti tank company gave more for the bucks.
this meant that in most case you had 2 div templet out for infantry.
the 20 whit one (some nation started whit) and a 6 whit div.
and logistic was way more value for the money on the larger one and the artillery gave more value for its money to the small one.
the only one that everyone had use of at all sizes more or less was anti air as that plus a front AA was enouth to negate all or most of the enemy air support.
2:55 now if engineer companies could accept a attachment of bulldozer tanks or flame tanks as part of the enginner div (both will just do engineer work so not that much pure value).
7:00 going to say no as its going to be faster to dig trenches for 2,000 men then for 20,000 men. so in that part its the same.
and HOI4 does not have a function for this is how many peaple that you need to keep the trench for this section of map fully covered vs mate you can´t fit trench work for 2000 man on snake island.
its over capacity at 200 vs that idiot that thinks Ardine front 1000 man is enouth (I say 30,000 is a more correct number to fill that whole front whit trenches).
11:20 I think this is part of the doctrine change as I bet a lot of buffs is only going to show up when you advance the tech tree.
like the blizkrig/tank doctrine will give Flame tanks a soft attack multiplayer to tanks designed for fighting infantry.
15:40 one thing I wish Logistic companies had was a option to attach truck to it and then have the truck increase the range from how far a battalion can be from a logistic hub whit out having logistic problem.
que me in the alps 4 tiles away from a logistic hub and my 6 bicycle div is having problem getting enouth socks to keep warm.
and I should not need to have to put a logistic hub that close (its not a artillery division its 6 blokes on bicycle.
mechanized wave is now a huge reason to go for 40+ width divisions
Think they could still rework it a bit for the companies. Think recon should improve initiative and HP too which would be boosted by signal companies. If they added 'captive soldiers' that added offmap civy factories or something MPs could increase the quantity captured as well as give some sort of intel bonuses. Think they should create separate bridging engineers tech tree and increase the effects of rivers and streams as they are a huge impact on the battlefield (to this day as we see in Ukraine) as well as add in those locations with high load capacity bridges at certain points on the map.
Load capacity of bridges should be relative to the infrustructure of the tile/s.
So bigger infantry divisions with artillery 14/4 or 9/4 marines will need a signal and recon. 10 percent soft attack and defense is wayyyy too strong to not add. I imagine the best defensive inf (for major ports/VPs) will be a 15/4 with eng, sig, recon, arty, aa
I'm so glad they'll add AC designer at some point, so much potential to make them actually worth it to research and use
to really make armoured cars usefully allow a ac battalion to have a recon bonus (50%?). it would add a pseudo 6th support company.
nordic dlc is coming
Paradox : "We'll fix it in post"
Narrator : "They in fact, did not fix it in post."
hey feedback irl could you do a tank tutoriel for minor nations and what is the meta overall for tanks since in 1.12.13 how a tank work changed and space marines are back
Mp or sp?
By using the mod for 10 support companies per division, I shall become unstoppable
I still remember in PDXCON 2018 the commentators saying when we rework the tech tree and joking about making outrageous promises till they get fired.
3:36 Bicycle Power!
Where can we read about this? I can't find a link in your description.
Google hoi4 dev diaries
I use Artillery, Anti Air, Engineer's, Maintenance & Logistics.
AC should be within light tank research and motorised not an additional thing to research.
Research LT, research motorised now you’re able to design AC.
armored car designer has got to come with a mot/mechanized designer, if not I'll perish
these changes are for tommykay so he can have his orc divisions again
a new balance of power check it out
I usually use 9-2 divisions because of the extra org and defense/ soft attack, still allowing 5 divisions into a battle of 120 width. Should I stop doing this and start making 7-2 divisions or does this work?
In current meta, there are quite many working configurations... And that is a good thing!
7-2s arent actually meta for hold anymore, usually u'd like for 30w but the cheaper version (used more often) is a 9-1, 21 width, as it allows for most tiles and fits perfectly for forests (which are 84 width)
the trailer just dropped hoi4 arms against tyrany new dev diary focus tree for sweden danemark norway and finland
Try to imagine what happens to your stack of 7/2 when it meets 15 10's in second doctrine
Nobody uses signals anymore ya.
Would you consider halftracks as AC's or halftracks are just going to be left out?
Still waiting for sustainable maintenance companies
It’s to let larger devisions have an easier time attacking a frontline
8:55 i cant say anything everytime i want to play 9/3 but i end up 9/2 [beacuse i dont have enouph arty] witch is working for somereason and i dont know why but 11/0 works too good for def only. I mean i play SOV and the germans cant do nothing with like 5-6 armies of 11/0
Is recaon will give sp arty a hard or soft attack bonus?
nice
MP gives inf recovery rate.......... oh boy 😍
add the link to the post in the descriptions please
More shovels should mean faster entrenchment, not more. That's just my thoughts though.
Faster entrenchment is a shit upgrade, unless they increased base entrenchment and slowed how much divisions got entrenchment to make it actually worthwhile
I hope one day the fix the US research, choices like fighter research is dumb considering there is no fighter research. Shows a lack of interest for finishing DLC, While I buy all DLC except music, I find this distressing that they leave this kind of thing in Russia and USA for so long.
is spg consider artillery ?
Yea
Yes
I'm all for MPs recovering org. I've said this for ages.
That's the whole point of them, after all.
Scaling support company cost to unit size.
cheese sticks
Fish sticks
@@yamnational9461 thank you
@@normall9320 it’s a very delicate state of mind
What else now, rework of generic focus?
Could be... They can not make every country specific focus tree, or at least it would take ages...
dave so engineers are not useful and can only be more useful/better for some doctrine, that's what I assume?
Man, imagine learning the game and thinking you're finally somewhat competent at it, only for everything to change and be literally back at square one. That's really gotta hurt.
He mentioned support company designer. DON'T GIVE PDX ANY STUPID IDEAS. PLS.
I don't wanna pay 20 bucks just to DESIGN my SHOVELS..
I want to design my uniform!
Nice Boss Natzi uniforms, Finnish winter camoflage and forest skis ofcourse!
;)
@@haukionkannel ends up with +50% org because u gave Ur uniform extra pockets for ze panzerschokolade
@@iljastutz4181 🤣
Pervitin is good!
@@haukionkannel they just released new dlc designer
Yes we are gonna design the company which is gonna be making my SHOVELS and I can't wait to make my SHOVELS have 5 soft atack
They're trying to get us to design more realistic divisions with more support companies.
The base functions of many of their support companies are pathetic compared to their costs, so they're adding masses of unrealistic bonuses to make them more palatable.
Manpower is drastically undervalued - due to the game's massive bias towards micromanagement - so trickle-back is worthless. They just slapped another 10% HP to artificially reduce equipment losses in addition to reduced manpower losses.
So 7/2 is a meta again?
They are going so much to do and rework... 😮There should be no tiles in 2023 global strategy. All divisions should be moving islands on the map
I don't like the way the supplies don't scale. You cant even put an engineer company in a 4 width port gaurd, as it's less entrenchment than before but just as expensive.... double nerf
So engineers are now even worse.
Like seriously if it's on a per leg infantry basis why not charge less support equipment if you have less.
It is not worse... If you have 20 wide it is better than old!
So you think hoi5 will be cold war like the Iron curtain mod or like late 90s early 2000s
I doubt it, the hoi franchise has always been around ww2 with early cold war additions.
A hoi cold war game seems unlikely, as these games aren‘t involving economy and diplomacy in depth
No, this Engineer change does not make sense. Why would two divisions of 5 battalions each with Engineers have less entrenchment then One division of 10 battalions (with Engineers)? There is more engineers per soldiers in the first forces, so why does the second force have more entrenchment?
engineer bonus should work on tanks if it got bulldozer. Just saying. Bulldozer tank is clearly defensive boi. Heavy equipment is good for preparing temporary protection for infrantry, it should be boosted by gearheads that know how to use it.
IMHO, infantry should have like 0.1 air attack per battalion. small arms fire could take weakest planes down. it should be done in a way where any armor on a plane just straight negates that attack into oblivion.
Pinpoint effectiveness gains for doctrines is a good thing. As doctrine leveles, you literally learn how to use some of those battalions, so they should be nerfed initially and then buffed in certain level of doctrines.
Something like arty have 5% friendly fire rate on any front-line battalions, unless you learn 2'nd level of doctrines, 4'th in case of mass assault, then it goes away completely
or
You need 4'th level of any doctrine to make mixed motorized/tank with infantry battalions, otherwise they either don't work at all, (literally don't know how to work together, have frequent ff incidents)
and you need to learn how to work together. I see it as massive debuf for green companies, and you need to give them some experience, before mix like infantry + anything works, again negated by doctrine. Maybe even more types you mix, higher doctrine you need to not have debufs.
Now I wonder if something like complexity to elasticity buffs would not be nice. Basically company that have different gear, tanks, trucks, aa, plane support have more options how they can attack, so maybe 1 more stat, that would make diverse companies work well with certain tactics in battle? Like ambush, should selectively boost tank destroyers, anti-tank guns piercing & hard-attack, and infantry soft attack, as they are clearly ambush made things, but in general if in heat of battle you can decide if you will face them right now with truck, tank or tank destroyer, its easier for you to counter enemy tactics as well.
so the bonus is weaker. Why bother then?
It feels so weird being this early
Can the designer PLEASE make shit transparent and say what a battalion counts as (e.g. trucks count as infantry and motorized, but not leg infantry or some shit like that).
Sounds like a big buff to grand battleplan and superior firepower for a war of attrition
Well, after all of this useless countries without any historical achievements, some of which just dying at 1936, can we finally get a focus tree for austria?
How about Finland?
@@ruukinenit is already known we will get it in next dlc.
@@user-yu4nd1sn2z Is it? Why did it take till after the baltics?
@@ruukinen if I understand your question, it is not for me but for devs.
boooooo i want engineers to be better, one battalion of engineers will have a tougher time covering 15 infantry battalions than 9 realistically boooooooo
No views and 5 likes, thanks CZcams!
Its because people haven't clicked off the video
I agree, tanks are less attractive and I don't like it
First
no one asked for this, why not improve special forces instead
Why? Special forces are already OP... You mean they need to nerf special forces... maybe... maybe...
Yes dev dairy spree 😮😊😅 👌👌
First