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#55 - Mr H Reviews chats to History Bro all about Dune
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2024
- Had a cracking chat with Nate off of 'Mr H Reviews'. Bloody great bloke.
/ @mrhreviews
We chat ALL about Dune; mainly The Frank Herbert original book(s), and the 2 modern Denis Villeneuve films, but also the David Lynch 80's version, and even TE Lawrence's 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom'.
Couple of errors to admit to... The na-Baron Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen DOES bang the Lady Margot Fenring in the book... And ultimately the Kwisatz Haderach is Paul's son, not grand-son.
Any other errors you spot, do point them out... Otherwise, enjoy!
*Kwisatz Haderach
Honestly kinda wish they’d have left out that subplot in favor of Thufier’s story
@@BalrogUdun The Feyd/Margot subplot helps to reinforce the BG's insistence on keeping multiple parallel candidates for their KH, and it keeps open the question if Paul is or is not the KH
@@TriumvirSajakiyeah I’m assuming it’s going to play a bigger role in Messiah.
One thing I’m glad they did but wish they made more reference to was the grandfather. On top of all the great things one favorite was the reference to the Grandfather. The conclusion of Jessica and Gurney is that Paul is more like his grandfather than his father. Which was a much harder man than Leto.
My favorite quote from Dune is “There is probably no more terrible instant of enlightenment than the one in which you discover your father is a man - with human flesh.”
My favorite part of the movies is the thread between Paul and Leto about finding your way to leadership.
The Lady Jessica actress is a tragedy in casting along with Chani.
@@uniblonder5606Lady Jessica is done really well I don’t have any complaints about Ferguson and Zendya is definitely the Hollywood casting but the script does more damage to her character than her acting. In the more tender moments it’s the most likable she’s ever been as an actress but it’s offset by her bitchy demeanor that she does in most everything I’ve seen her in.
@@uniblonder5606 What's your issue with Ferguson as Jessica?
I really enjoyed the joint analysis by two intelligent reviewers, Dunes themes and underlying philosophy and the necessary changes to make a viable screenplay.
"The spice expands consciousness" as does reading the Dune novels, and if these movies are the gateway to that so be it.
I’ve read Dune and Messiah and love them. The movies are very stripped down but fantastic adaptations. I heard in the beginning the original intent was to do 3 movies and have the third be Messiah. Which I prefer messiah is a perfect ending to Paul’s story. They can definitely do it in one movie messiah is half the length of Dune. It’s less action packed than Dune but you could incorporate elements of the Jihad to level it out.
Bros name is BalrogUdun and has got an Alice Cooper album for a profile pic... Metal as fuck.
@@brycemuller6662Dragontown and Last Temptation probably two of my favorites but Raise Your Fist is a badass cover.
Agree I think the ominous birth of Leto II and Paul’s sendoff would be an epic way to end, though I also suspect a part 3 would deviate much further from the book than 1 and 2, and I already thought part 2 stumbled when it majorly deviated from the book. IMO they got too cocky and lost the reverence for Herbert’s work what was palpable in part one, and the success of 2 will only embolden that tendency.
Having read the first 4 Dune books for the first time recently, I honestly think Books 3 and 4 are required to complete the story. You don't really know what "the Golden Path" is until Book 4, and it's very important to understanding what drove Paul to make the decisions that he did.
@@NoFeckingNamesLeft most not all of the deviations I found to be reasonable to keep the movie understandable for the uninitiated audiences and give fans something to see. It’s a hard book to adapt to screenplay due to Herbert’s writing style. Most of the cinematic elements are mentioned and alluded to not explicitly written so things have to be changed to make a coherent narrative and make a cinematic story. It juggles this very well for the most part.
My only quibble with the films was making Chani out to be some kind of warrior princess, at the expense of Stilgar and the other Fedaykin. Zendaya just isn't convincing as a fighter. She looked juvenile and silly, trying to portray an experienced warrior. She's just not a good actress, frankly. She was positively wooden in her performance, and I thought there was zero chemistry between her and Chalamet (who was excellent). Her sidekick in Pt 2 would have been much better cast as Chani.
I appreciate so much you devoting a whole stream to Dune because I watch all of you guys' channels and what annoys me right now is that people like Drinker, Nerdrotic etc seem to not read the room, that fans are sick and tired of shitting on dead Star Wars and we want to hear them geek out about something good for a change. Drinker should do Happy Hour about both Dune films right now when the whole world is going crazy about it not do another Open Bar talking about Star Wars and KK.
Really enjoyed the video and the discussion. A comparison came up when I was gushing over part 2 with friends - that these films are *important* in the way Lord of the Rings was. Prior to Lord of the Rings, fantasy on film was more or less a joke and that project was incredibly risky, with the redemption of an entire genre on its shoulders. Sci Fi isn't in such dire straits, but Dune is comparably important demonstration that a Sci Fi blockbuster can be intelligent and powerful, without falling into the various pitfalls of modern cinema.
I'm pretty sure Lady Fenring does get impregnated by Fayd Rautha on orders from the Reverend Mother in the books.
Holmes becomes a user in the second novel and its to fill the void of boredom left by lack or work to focus on rather than being an out and out addict
2:55 I thought for sure as someone who loves history you would've liked the northman too
The worst changes made for me were: 1) the change of the motivation for Paul's mom to have a male child (from loving Duke Leto to pride) and 2) The change of Chiari's personality and her portrayal by zendaya, both terrible.
I mean, she's a love interest and has no chemistry with the lead. Also not that pretty, so her performance sticks out more.
I don't mind Chani's personality change in concept, but it isn't written very well, and Zendaya's acting makes the character extremely unlikable in a lot of key scenes
Point 1 isn't true. While yes in the books she also had the arrogance to think she could produce and control the Kwisatz Haderach, she in both book and movie is clearly motivated by love. Leto says that ever since she gave him his son he hasn't doubted her, she gave him what he wanted. Her love for Leto manifests in many ways during both movies.
@@SolarDragon007 I didn't get any of that, frankly. Of anyone, she's probably the one I sympathised with most (I'm talking about Chani). Plus, her personality's much improved for me in the movie, as she was gratingly flacid in the book.
Look up Dunewave for your own good, fellas 👑🙏
Oh hell yeah
The sleeper has awakened.
At the climax of the book/film Paul extorts all his enemies (Emperor & the Great Houses [Political]/Guild & the Bene Gesserit [End-users of Spice]/CHOAM [International Bankers]; the three-legged stool analogy on which the stability of the Empire rests) and takes total control of the Spice as an economic commodity (setting aside the obvious late 1950's-60's LSD metaphor) that enables transportation amongst the Imperium. In the later books he, and worm-Leto II, limits the supply of the Spice to extort and keep control of the Empire with the threat of Embargo. Herbert was incredibly prescient in that his story, conceived in the early 1960's and published in 1965, correctly predicted the Oil Embargos and the appropriation/Nationalization of the companies set up by the West by newly formed organizations in the late 1960's-70's, OPEC & Aramco, to control oil production and exercise political will. Yes, I read the book in the original Chiltons edition as a young lad, which alas I no longer have, many times (lol).
Denis idea of changing Chani's character was totally to do with Herbert's vision of the book and where the novel failed, he wrote messiah because he thought audiences didn't pick up on the anti-hero nature of Paul. The change in this character does a good job of Denis being more faithful to the author than the book.
Quality comment. 🙂
That's the main thing I forgot/failed to say in this video... The whole theme of Paul ultimately being an anti-hero... The theme that hero worship is basically always a terrible thing... Kicked myself after the stream that I didn't talk about it... Well, can't win 'em all.
It weakens the point Herbert was making. One of the central ideas is that the mistakes a powerful leader makes are amplified by the number of followers he has. It's a warning against the leader and the legion. It muddied the waters and now people are going to trust in another "savior". It's also really hamfisted and out place. "Show don't tell". Give the audience 2 and 2, let them make four, instead of having a character shout "It's 4!!!". It's an issue with the concept and not Herbert's writing. Herbert wanted Paul to be a leader who everyone would follow. He did a really good job of it too.
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach Couldn't disagree more. Chani in the movie is a perpetual reminder of everying staying true to himself could've earned him rather than resorting to such manipulative dishonesty in his quest for revenge, making his decision all the more striking. The only way it does weaken his point is by punctuating the nihilism inherent in having every other human character be so reliably manipulable. In all honesty, I'm OK with that.
I haven't watched or read anything on Dune so i'll come back to this when I have.
I’d start with Dune and Dune Messiah. If you don’t like reading get an audiobook amazing story. Then I’d check out the 84 movie for an interesting perspective then I’d watch the new movies. Then I’d also throw in Lawrence of Arabia as context.
Its Hans Zimmer who did the soundtrack for Dune: part one and part 2 ffs
Looking forward to watching this ☺️ I am currently reading it x
First book? Yeah it's wild 😆
Yep the first one, I’m enjoying it so far 😊
It seems you are the exact opposite of me when it comes to adaptations, Beau. I've always felt that, if you want to enjoy a book AND its movie adaptation, you should start with the movie and end with the book whenever you can.
If you start with the original critically acclaimed story whatever story it may be and whatever medium it may come from, you end up understanding and enjoying all the various points of it especially with, to take your example for Dune, reading the book several times.
When the adaptation comes along, all I can see after that process are the missed subtleties, mutated appearances, and butchered sub-plots. All those various ways that the adaptation failed to faithfully show the original, and those failures are constantly flooding my mind and annoying me.
On the other hand, the contrary ordering does almost the exact opposite. The missed plotlines and character interactions and... that I had no idea of are revealed upon seeing/reading the original. It comes together to heighten the experience and awes me with the excellence from the mastermind of an author who made the original work that shows what the adaptation could have been.
It’s really the persons choice but I find the movie helps give visual context for things you read about that you don’t quite fully grasp.
Let's goooooooooooo 🎉
Yeaterdays hit piece is History, Bro...
You look better without a beard, Mr H.
Great vid boss.
Oh hell yeah.
Brilliant user name. For real.
@@HistoryBro Thanks, History Bro.
FATHER!! THE MEMER HAS AWAKENED!!
Shai-halleluiah Beau. Honestly I found the movies art direction to be a bit weak compared to the others. Competently made all around, but felt a bit dull and uninspired. The aesthetic of Dune should be able to stand out from other Sci-Fi movies.
Gosh. Respectfully, I completely disagree... I found it, at times, breathtaking.
@@HistoryBro I'm actually pretty neutral on the movies, my brother and father outright despise it though. It was hilarious to watch their reactions though. My father was so upset by the first movie that he reread the entire book series out of spite. By the way, have you seen the tv series? It's budget was insanely small for what they got out of it.
Got to disagree with Beau regarding BR2049. I hated it. Rob Ager and Raz0rfist have the best takes on that dreadful film.
Yeah I hate 2049 too but love Dune and Sicario.
Dang
Man its a little sad to hear Tom (Rowsell) having such a dumb take on Dune. Well you cant agree on everything...
Finally saw part 2 and thought it was good but ended up disappointed. Thought it just wasn’t weird enough for Dune, the comedy felt out of place, they ruined Alia. Had none of the enchanting, dreamy psychedelia of part one. Was good as an epic sci fi war film, but I expect more than that out of Dune.
Best example is how two characters ingest the water of life and they do nothing interesting with it, where in part one the gom jabbar scene, Jamis death, Paul inhaling the spice, the dreams etc were all intense and psychedelic, you experienced it visually alongside the characters. Will say Feyd and the Harkonnens were excellent though as were the worm scenes.