Wow. My ability to keep up with this video shows how powerful CZcams is. I know way too much about videography but I'm enjoying the learning process a ton.
Looking forward for some reviews of these in the future as I'm currently running DZO Vespids ! btw, your pronunciation was on point for Arles, frenchie approved ! ✌
Oh wow, thank you Yann! That's very kind of you. When I was a small child we lived in Paris for two years, so perhaps that helped me. I don't speak the language, but hopefully I can pronounce a few words without making TOO big a fool of myself. Language is important, and I try to be respectful of the fact that I'm an outsider. Thank you so much for the kind words.
Thank you! I think a good demo video about that is in order. Sensor size, lens equivalency, and MANY other things are widely misunderstood. Even by CZcamsrs with massive followings who pretend to know otherwise. There are a few words and phrases that are often employed by people to describe something about an image that they don't really know how to describe. These include the fan-favorite of "focus falloff," as well as the almost-universally misstated "highlight roll-off," and my favorite non-specific term, "rendering." When people don't quite understand the technical aspect of why an image looks the way it does, they'll often use one of those three terms (wildly incorrectly) to describe it.
@@nick_salazar Another interesting term that I like is "3D-pop". In my opinion the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K FF has this "3D-pop look" in comparison with the other Blackmagic Pro 6K (s35) and with all the mirrorless out there. I would say that his look has to do with the "feeling of three-dimensionality that the image has". Obviously you can get a 3D effect by opening the iris and isolating the subject from the background, but I am referring here to the contribution that a particular sensor and image processor (and associated post workflow) can add to this 3D feeling. So you can have two different cameras (e.g. BMCC 6K FF and Sony FX6), with the exactly same settings (same lenses, aperture, color profile, etc) but still one will have a more "3D-pop" quality than the other (I would say, the BM trumps the FX3 or FX6 on 3D pop). And in this case that didn't came from the lens (it was the same) but from the sensor and the image processing of the camera. Maybe, in part, it has to do with how the codec (compression) deals with transition on edges. Interestingly, that concept (3D-pop) could also be attribute to optics in the sense that some lenses will have a more 3D-pop effect than others (the ones which have better performance at the same aperture, have more contrast, resolution, better color reproduction, less aberrations and so on). Just as another example, I think the Komodo X has more '3D-pop" effect than the Komodo OG (keeping everything equal, lens, aperture, exposure, etc).
Just saw a filmmaker review them this morning showing test and it led me to your page trying to find out more! I wanted to know why haven’t I heard of these before! NOBODY COVERED THEM! You called it! These lenses are BEAUTIFUL!!! I’m saving my money right now because these are definitely on my wish list. Non negotiable. Great research! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🫡
I saw that video from Ed Prosser too, and I commented on it. Then Ed replied and said it was MY video that alerted him to the lenses in the first place. Full circle!
Thumb up for the pronunciation mate Btw I'm afraid of the pricing point... We've all been really surprised by the price of the PAVO lenses, it seems DZO is really going up lately.
I think what you're trying to say is that there is shallower depth of field on the 50mm FF Sensor, compared to the 35mm on a Super35 sensor - Related to 6:30.
Thank you! The autofocus works well in situations like this - single subject, well-lit, not moving too much. As for skin tones, I have to give credit to the amazing Mononodes DCTL tool for Resolve. It's incredibly handy at seeing just where your skin tones lie across the entire face. Highly recommended.
Yep always trade offs. But in this case I think it’ll be well worth it. 1.5kg isn’t too bad in the world of lenses. Plus, with all the weight I save elsewhere, I’m happy to trade it for a dream lens. Twice the weight, but also twice the speed. Worth it!!
I thought they were going to announce the price after NAB but they never did. I’m glad there’s a 40mm. I just found that video you mentioned. Hopefully it wasn’t a typo. I was going to stick to my 21mm and 40mm odd focal lengths and only get the 5 they announced but this is even better news
It’s not a typo. As mentioned, the guy who posted that video has an instagram and he has posted several images of the lens with a clear 40 on it, as well as another comparison video against some 35mm lenses. It’s truly a 40. When it is available is another question.
@nick_salazar absolutely makes a difference. Hence why IMAX, ARRI 65, PHASE and HB MF systems are so covted. Might be a good video idea for you to shoot. Compare the Raptor to the GFX system at equivalent focal/aperture levels and see. There's an Alexa Mini vs Alexa65 one on CZcams already you can watch.
I’ve done those tests. And I’m familiar with the video you’re talking about. The entire effect you’re seeing is larger depth of field, you can even see them mark it as “depth of field test” in the Alexa video. Crop in on the sensor, they look the same. Perhaps you’re just conflating different terms.
Again to clarify - shoot super35 on a 35mm at t2, full frame on 50mm at t2.8, then a gfx sensor on 75mm at t4, the effective image will be virtually identical across the three, except individual lens factors like vignetting and distortion. The sensor itself does not contribute to “fall off” in any way. It’s just capturing a larger circle of light.
@@nick_salazar you are correct. Even in that Alexa test you all are referring too, the biggest difference outside of the ones you've addressed is how noise/grain is rendered. Sensor size, pixel size, pixel count, downsampling, etc have an impact on what noise looks like. Part of the IMAX image is how the grain renders on larger film
Yes, I’m familiar with those. And there are a couple other sets similar to it. Like the Sirui Night Walker series. They all have the same drawbacks discussed in the video - lower resolution, higher aberrations and vignetting, and usually serious coma problems (glowing aberrations near light sources). They are interesting options, but definitely not a substitute for the kind of lens I’m talking about here.
Tokina Cinema Vista is definitely what they're aiming to compete with most directly, I'd think. Though these come in about 500-700g lighter, and a smidge faster, which is nothing to sneeze at. But as far as pricing, how do you know they're the same? I didn't know any pricing information had been released yet.
@@nick_salazar check sharegrid lens test you will be amazed to see how tokina compre to 3 times prize lenses (Arri Signature primes ).Can’t remember I saw somewhere here on YT, anyway let’s wait for cinegear soon
bro...the main issue with "cheap" lenses is CA. This video is not helping the issue with the way you shot this. Wide open and with the lights in the background; you're not making a case for the quality of these lenses. Would love to see you shoot something at around T2.8-4 with some backlighting and demo the sharpness and CA
Interesting take! In my experience, this lens works very well wide open (it's the RF 50mm f1.2 L). I'm not sure where you're seeing much CA in this video, it's virtually nonexistent. In any event, I'm usually happy to trade a little "perfection" for a shallower DoF, sounds like you'd rather trade the other way. That's why art is great! We all have our own take.
Wow. My ability to keep up with this video shows how powerful CZcams is. I know way too much about videography but I'm enjoying the learning process a ton.
May thy continent of knowledge grow ever larger, thy shoreline of frontiers ever longer.
Looking forward for some reviews of these in the future as I'm currently running DZO Vespids !
btw, your pronunciation was on point for Arles, frenchie approved ! ✌
Oh wow, thank you Yann! That's very kind of you. When I was a small child we lived in Paris for two years, so perhaps that helped me. I don't speak the language, but hopefully I can pronounce a few words without making TOO big a fool of myself. Language is important, and I try to be respectful of the fact that I'm an outsider. Thank you so much for the kind words.
I like how you explained the stop differences between sensor sizes. Very helpful Nick!
Thank you! I think a good demo video about that is in order. Sensor size, lens equivalency, and MANY other things are widely misunderstood. Even by CZcamsrs with massive followings who pretend to know otherwise. There are a few words and phrases that are often employed by people to describe something about an image that they don't really know how to describe. These include the fan-favorite of "focus falloff," as well as the almost-universally misstated "highlight roll-off," and my favorite non-specific term, "rendering." When people don't quite understand the technical aspect of why an image looks the way it does, they'll often use one of those three terms (wildly incorrectly) to describe it.
@@nick_salazar Looking forward to more content from your channel.
@@epochfilmandphoto thank you so much!
@@nick_salazar Another interesting term that I like is "3D-pop". In my opinion the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K FF has this "3D-pop look" in comparison with the other Blackmagic Pro 6K (s35) and with all the mirrorless out there. I would say that his look has to do with the "feeling of three-dimensionality that the image has". Obviously you can get a 3D effect by opening the iris and isolating the subject from the background, but I am referring here to the contribution that a particular sensor and image processor (and associated post workflow) can add to this 3D feeling. So you can have two different cameras (e.g. BMCC 6K FF and Sony FX6), with the exactly same settings (same lenses, aperture, color profile, etc) but still one will have a more "3D-pop" quality than the other (I would say, the BM trumps the FX3 or FX6 on 3D pop). And in this case that didn't came from the lens (it was the same) but from the sensor and the image processing of the camera. Maybe, in part, it has to do with how the codec (compression) deals with transition on edges. Interestingly, that concept (3D-pop) could also be attribute to optics in the sense that some lenses will have a more 3D-pop effect than others (the ones which have better performance at the same aperture, have more contrast, resolution, better color reproduction, less aberrations and so on). Just as another example, I think the Komodo X has more '3D-pop" effect than the Komodo OG (keeping everything equal, lens, aperture, exposure, etc).
Just saw a filmmaker review them this morning showing test and it led me to your page trying to find out more! I wanted to know why haven’t I heard of these before! NOBODY COVERED THEM! You called it! These lenses are BEAUTIFUL!!! I’m saving my money right now because these are definitely on my wish list. Non negotiable. Great research! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🫡
I saw that video from Ed Prosser too, and I commented on it. Then Ed replied and said it was MY video that alerted him to the lenses in the first place. Full circle!
@@nick_salazar Love it! Subscribed! 🫡🔥
I'm rooting for your demo acquisition! Takin' notes bro! LOL Thank you again.
How do these compare to the NISIs? It would be good to see a full comparison to see if the jump and image quality and weight it worth it?
Thumb up for the pronunciation mate
Btw I'm afraid of the pricing point... We've all been really surprised by the price of the PAVO lenses, it seems DZO is really going up lately.
I think what you're trying to say is that there is shallower depth of field on the 50mm FF Sensor, compared to the 35mm on a Super35 sensor - Related to 6:30.
Yes when I say “one stop more blur” that’s the same as “one stop shallower depth of field” - sorry if I confused you. :-)
great vid brother! what haw you mounted this 50mmRF 1.2 on, focus looks spot on! ALSO skin tones absolute MINT!
Thank you! The autofocus works well in situations like this - single subject, well-lit, not moving too much. As for skin tones, I have to give credit to the amazing Mononodes DCTL tool for Resolve. It's incredibly handy at seeing just where your skin tones lie across the entire face. Highly recommended.
Oh and it’s mounted on a Canon R5 C. For scenes like this I set it to “Face Only” AF mode so it won’t hunt around.
Interesting how fast they are. About twice the weight of the NiSi’s though. Ouch. I like my rig light and I know you do too :) Always trade offs.
Yep always trade offs. But in this case I think it’ll be well worth it. 1.5kg isn’t too bad in the world of lenses. Plus, with all the weight I save elsewhere, I’m happy to trade it for a dream lens. Twice the weight, but also twice the speed. Worth it!!
I thought they were going to announce the price after NAB but they never did. I’m glad there’s a 40mm. I just found that video you mentioned. Hopefully it wasn’t a typo. I was going to stick to my 21mm and 40mm odd focal lengths and only get the 5 they announced but this is even better news
It’s not a typo. As mentioned, the guy who posted that video has an instagram and he has posted several images of the lens with a clear 40 on it, as well as another comparison video against some 35mm lenses. It’s truly a 40. When it is available is another question.
One big factor for sensor size is the focus roll off. As someone who works with APSC up to Medium Format, the MF sensor just renders beautifully
This is likely just the different depth of field. A sensor itself does nothing to change how out of focus elements look.
@nick_salazar absolutely makes a difference. Hence why IMAX, ARRI 65, PHASE and HB MF systems are so covted.
Might be a good video idea for you to shoot. Compare the Raptor to the GFX system at equivalent focal/aperture levels and see. There's an Alexa Mini vs Alexa65 one on CZcams already you can watch.
I’ve done those tests. And I’m familiar with the video you’re talking about. The entire effect you’re seeing is larger depth of field, you can even see them mark it as “depth of field test” in the Alexa video. Crop in on the sensor, they look the same. Perhaps you’re just conflating different terms.
Again to clarify - shoot super35 on a 35mm at t2, full frame on 50mm at t2.8, then a gfx sensor on 75mm at t4, the effective image will be virtually identical across the three, except individual lens factors like vignetting and distortion. The sensor itself does not contribute to “fall off” in any way. It’s just capturing a larger circle of light.
@@nick_salazar you are correct. Even in that Alexa test you all are referring too, the biggest difference outside of the ones you've addressed is how noise/grain is rendered. Sensor size, pixel size, pixel count, downsampling, etc have an impact on what noise looks like. Part of the IMAX image is how the grain renders on larger film
I recently heard about this cheap set: Mitakon Zhongyi Speedmaster S35. Have you heard about it?
Yes, I’m familiar with those. And there are a couple other sets similar to it. Like the Sirui Night Walker series. They all have the same drawbacks discussed in the video - lower resolution, higher aberrations and vignetting, and usually serious coma problems (glowing aberrations near light sources). They are interesting options, but definitely not a substitute for the kind of lens I’m talking about here.
Rent tokina vv are great I own them and use it on the Raptor vv and KX Same price
Tokina Cinema Vista is definitely what they're aiming to compete with most directly, I'd think. Though these come in about 500-700g lighter, and a smidge faster, which is nothing to sneeze at. But as far as pricing, how do you know they're the same? I didn't know any pricing information had been released yet.
@@nick_salazar check sharegrid lens test you will be amazed to see how tokina compre to 3 times prize lenses (Arri Signature primes ).Can’t remember I saw somewhere here on YT, anyway let’s wait for cinegear soon
Brah! I thought this was Davey Havok.
Username checks out!
bro...the main issue with "cheap" lenses is CA. This video is not helping the issue with the way you shot this.
Wide open and with the lights in the background; you're not making a case for the quality of these lenses.
Would love to see you shoot something at around T2.8-4 with some backlighting and demo the sharpness and CA
Interesting take! In my experience, this lens works very well wide open (it's the RF 50mm f1.2 L). I'm not sure where you're seeing much CA in this video, it's virtually nonexistent. In any event, I'm usually happy to trade a little "perfection" for a shallower DoF, sounds like you'd rather trade the other way. That's why art is great! We all have our own take.