What We Learnt From the CSM 14 Minutes
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- The CSM Minutes are the publicly available results of the meeting between the CSM, a body of elected player representatives, and CCP, where the two of them talk about upcoming features, problems with the game, and generally try to bridge the gap between players and developers. As a result, these minutes often give us a far more honest look at both what CCP is currently working on, and what they see as problems than what we hear about in devblogs or at player gatherings - And as someone who served as a CSM for 3 years, and has experience in the behind the scenes process that goes into getting these things written, redacted and out to the public I feel like I can provide a bit of a unique perspective on this.
So, whilst I prepare myself for the ordeal of reading out all 10,000+ words of it, I figured it might be a good idea to break out what I think are the most important pieces of new information CCP has let through in a more concise form.
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I'm glad I wasn't the only person who saw that little bit about heavy bombers being on the menu! This could definitely give new life to the BLOPs playstyle. Hope they use the attack battlecruiser hulls, seems like a perfect t2 upgrade path.
Interesting, and an 'improvement' to a certain degree but at the end of the day it's unsurprising that CCP does not understand what low sec was, or should be. I was pirate of low sec in the bad old days of Eve, when we had to make bookmarks for every single gate to be able jump at zero, when Jita lagged so much that its frame rate sometimes wasn't much better than 3 frames a second, and nullsec didn't have POSes yet. When quite a few groups would mine in low sec, when you could pirate and ransum people in game, and there was development of local pirate 'cultures' like m0o or some others that I can't even recall at this point. When there was no words called content, or meta but they certainly had coined the term gatecamp. When owning battleships was something uncommon. I guess the first three years of Eve was something special, or the nostalgia is corrupting me. I guess what low sec was supposed to be was lost with all the other changes.
Low sec was supposed to be what wormholes space became between 2013 to 2017, a haven for small group pvpers that were able to fight each other without fear of running into groups from null sec, as well as be a space for emergent experiences like ransoms, 'pirating', and faction warfare. Now low sec is just nullsec but if you shoot at someone you get stat decrease and you won't get blobbed as heavily. Also the money making sucks, unless your in faction warfare or you do level 5 missions. So what you need to do is make low sec more lucrative, make unique money or content making opportunities in low sec that binds players to a certain playstyle that of preferably small group pvp. So other words get rid of citadels or make citadels ridiculously easy to be taken down in low sec. Allow players to build there own dead space pockets to build whatever, have unique resources that contribute to unique game play elements and make all that balanced with the risk/rewards of such a content. But CCP will never do that because at the end of day, they are company and they have to look at the bottom line and low sec is just not worth it on the bottom line.
Tldr: Bitter pirate vet talks about what lowsec should be and tells you that CCP will never do that because there isn't playerbase to support that bottomline.
m0o was beta and high sec. but we get your point. *smiles* memory can be deceiving
A mOo player in a caracal was the first time I got killed in game. I was in a thorax, and back then losing something like was kind of a big deal. Well for me at least since I mined all minerals for it myself. In a frigate.... Goddamn I miss when having a Battleship was a big deal.
Warp to 15 at lo sec gates with a bunch of haulers , not one of who new each other but we new if we bum rushed the gates together we new some of us would get through...sometimes the wealthier haulers would bung you some isk if it was you that got got . Also great pirate anti pirate sundays in hedal were wonderful..thankyou infod ! Yes those were the days !
@@GabeBlack It took my first corp six months of mining to afford our first corp BS which was promptly lost to some friendly local pirates that told us what we were doing wrong haha (also said we always had shit loot )
Chain lightning on a spaceship. I've seen it all now.
In regards to lowsec, I PVP in lowsec VIA FW. It's where I began once I realized I wanted to PVP and not in high-sec. Null was WAY too complex for me and so I decided to go into Low and found a group that did FW, which I thought would be fun. I'm still there because I enjoy being in an area that's mainly smaller groups vs each other, not massive entities that control huge areas of territory for one another. Lowsec is never safe for mining or pvp or sites, but there are areas in null which would be regarded as safer because they're deep in Sov. I've always enjoyed this idea of it being risky and fighting smaller groups, but when larger groups start to take over lowsec, it does start to get a bit harder to want to be there. FW can be a nice income while also having fun with PVP, so many people in the FW community are hoping that that continues to develop and become more profitable to partake in (not with missions, but with actual PVP).
Was there anything you were hoping would be brought up in the minutes by the CSM/CCP, but wasn't?
i've given up long ago. lol [/bitter vet]
I commented in your recent ore scarcity and when it comes to player retention, they're only getting feedback from players who are more involved, not old players tired of there being nothing different for them, or new players that pop in to see what the game is about. I've seen a lot of new players that just disappear. It will be hard to get any kind of feedback when they just don't give the game enough time. The mechanics of gameplay are unconventional, to say the least, and the rest of the game follows suit. I don't think a lot of people realize that. The community... sometimes i want to say is involved, and other times i'm not so sure. This channel is one of the few that gets a lot of attention from the Eve community, but there is a lot of great Eve content that isn't. That keeps those videos from being seen by more people on youtube, which is probably the best avenue for people to see what's available.
Yeah, no talk about solo... the ships sound exciting kind of... Let’s all get a bunch of new OP ships. Why would anyone fly standard faction, neglect everything! Thank you CSM. Let’s just make it so you can’t make a new Corp until you’ve played the game for 5yrs or more.....
Anyone working on the NPE and retention should spend a solid week in Rookie Help answering questions. Then go away and redesign the "career paths", which drop people off a cliff. Alone.
No u.
JFK
This is actually a good idea
triglavian dictor that i saw mentioned in there looked like an interesting point.
Very sad to see that lowsec still has no priority in CCPs books. Place should be haven for new players where they will grow and move to null if they desire. Jin, how do you think lowsec, especially FW should be reworked?
JustThatLuka the difficult part about lowsec as well as anything with Eve is that it’s hard to be productive enough to make it worth it to undock, a ship that you have to undock in about 30 times without dying to make it worth while. This is why you get nullbears and highsec carebears. And then you get “hardcore PvPers”, which are niche because you have to bankroll your pvp addiction somehow. So you get overuse of plex, and alts bankrolling these PVPers. At least that’s part of it, PvP accounts that have not crabbed a day in their life. So the environment gets divided into productive zones and zones so high risk it’s just not worth it to derp around crabbing.
Thanks for doing a summary highlighting the important points. Read through the whole thing myself, but there were some things I missed or didn't think much about.
One thing: on page 35, Ship Balance #2 it is stated: "Heavy bombers would not be a viable solution to counter super capital blobs, giving sub caps a targeted weapon would be a better solution." - I found that to be missing from your initial mention of the heavy bomber idea.
So, why do I live in lowsec? Because I want to be in a smaller corp/alliance where I can know everybody and where I can make a difference. It's no secret that most of null is controlled by the Big Bad Blocs, and bending the knee or doing such a dishonorabru thing as renting is not an option. There are some places in null smaller alliances live and fight, like Tribute recently or Scalding Pass. Those places tend to be rather dynamic in terms of sov and getting booted out, and after experiencing that for some time I found that I do like my stability. Also, fuck dealing with entosis, and preferrably citadel timers too.
Another thing I don't find quite accurate from the minutes is the impression that nobody gets their money in lowsecm or at least that they all plex or have renter alts. There's a lot of ways to make money in eve besides mining or ratting - one of the reasons why I have no problem not living in sovnull.
So, NPC null and lowsec are largely identical for my purposes, and I've lived in both. For me, their point is a place for groups of friends and small corps to find a footing (that's not highsec) and live - not all of it has to be a solo/roaming pvp thunderdome all the time, and FW is really just one small component of lowsec.
The big problem at the end of the day is just that you can't defend citadels against the whims of a larger neighbor and have to rely on having stations nearby. I blame citadels.
True. I am saying from begining of citadels. Citadels ruined eve. But nobody is listening
Arbitrage is everything, removing regional markets would be a disaster.
Pretty sure they are only talking about doing that for plex items not the entire market.
@@AlleyCatNinja opens the door though
7:27 I dont think offloading the tournaments is fine as long as it still has CCP's blessing to be an official event. My big issue is who would run said tourny and conflicts of interest brought with it. For instance the rules could in some way favor a doctrine their alliance runs, to give a minor edge.
10:14 As far as the plex restrictions, I don't think its too bad if its Plex can be bought where ever and treated like a gold standard. But I don't want the normal markets to lose those barriers that allow for people making ISK doing their cargo runs. That being said if they could at least see the prices at major trade sites remotely to plan said runs rather than use external tools I think that would be a good upgrade. For instance I could shop my fitting and get a quote from all the major trade hubs, but i would still have to be present to buy it.
I saw the only 30% of people completed their career agents without external help. Has CCP ever thought to make their controls more understandable? You go to the keybinds in setting and what you get is a wall of text in which a whole bunch of controls that you didn't even know existed, and probably will never use. You get tabs like combat, navigation general, and a search function, but from what I can tell you are only going to use 3-4 buttons. Most controls are done by using the mouse, which when I started playing I had no clue about. Another thing from my experience, going in semi blind(I had played the game as an alpha and was disgusted by the omega being needed for everything and left), is that I didn't even know rookie help existed. I really think it would help, if instead of there being career agents, there would instead be a "simulation" of a cruiser, where it has a fit with many different thing, webs, target painter, to teach new players about the limitations of tracking, and what can be done against the ships that get "under the guns" In other words, give them some actual combat experience, unlike the corvette stuff, which is just mindless approach and shoot. For mining, it really isn't that difficult. Overall, just reduce the confusion. The game isn't difficult, understanding it from nothing with no one to help is. Also... do new players even know what a corporation is?
My youtube feed has a lot of videos eve online mixed in with videos about the virus and the Chinese Communist Party. And, sometimes it can be confusing which CCP the video titles are referring to. :P
that's already a thing have you heard of the website Eve marketeer it gives you the whole entire Eve Marketplace
It’s not a real-time service, it relies on players scraping the market for it.
Any new information on the anti capital bombs?
I'd love to have fleet doctrine PVP viable cruse missiles but I have no idea how those could be implemented. Honestly I just want to fly ravens as doctrine but not booshing around.
Nano phoons are a thing
We have a doctrine like that. No-prop cruise Ravens. Great for sitting on your own structure under a fax and not caring where on grid the init fleet trying to kill your structure is.
@@Zempgara Nothing says get off of my property like curse missiles.
"nerf is content"-ccp 2020
still better then just delete your stockpile of capital
good news: heavy bomber ship
bad news: no triglavian t3 or carrier
also good news: no triglavian t3 or carrier
question abouth the heavy bombers they problably will be a t2 battlecruicer or they will be a bs class?
because i want to buy bpo from bs or bc
Learned*
trippple skill boosters come ye come all
05:00 - oh thank goodness they're looking at that. It's not insane...how many times have you tried to go through the career agents path? there are clear bugs, that if you populate the 'rookie help' channel for any length of time, that GMs actually have official tools to copy/paste fixes/workarounds for the n00bs at certain points. n00bs literally get stuck in their progress at clearly known points all the time.
errrr...it's up to us to write in because they're finally "looking into it"???? oh dear, that doesn't bode well if they're not even aware their GMs have tools to help n00bs at very very well estabilished points. i mean, we've had career agents since ...did they ever revamp career agents? i don't think they have? *scratches head*
12:00 I would like to "live" in low sec, and they're amazingly smart to figure out there's shitty opportunities to be self-sufficient...except, there's this youtuber(s) who do the "low sec challenge" (which i haven't watched fully yet; but i assume easy enough to realize it's not easy to generate income)
but, isn't that the point? if it was easy everyone would do it...and by everyone i mean the total arsewipes we find in high sec who don't believe in 'social' interaction - at all.
problem is, the risk is equal to the rewards...and, ofc, it's it swell CCP merely "wonders" instead of "acknowledging" ..."how do they make money?" is more a smart assed inside joke than a self-reflective mentality things need to be worked on. like complex talk about why and how Jaspet contributes to the economy - both from the miner to the end user perspective.
this doesn't bode well for their "redistribution phase"
04:30
oh, god...a newbie 'flag' ...i can just see the evemail spam recruitment artists drooling...and one system? that'll make life hell for n00bs as their inboxes fill with crapola. Though, to be fair, i've never actually tried to join any of those corps that have offered my alts instant out of the box newbie join opportunities, via the mass addressee evemails to anyone in 'rookie help'.
i knew it all hi sec miners are bots.
As a salty ex null seccer, I continue to watch EVE news hoping to give myself a reason to resub my 3 accounts.
Sadly all what I am hearing is more and more confirmation to stay unsubbed and to keep EVE uninstalled.
If I can ask, what in particular keeps you unsubbed right now, and what would make you sub?
Jin'taan
I guess a bit of background is in order. I have been playing EVE on and off since 2011, 90% of that time has been in null. IRC, RED, Nulli, Infamous, Co2, Tri, and finally TEST.
My unsubbing honestly started with
blackout. The first part, no local I didnt care about. Second part the drifter insanity wasnt a big deal for me, but I knew people who were having a horrible time. For me it was the cyno changes to force recons, blops, and indy only that started my decision to unsub. It didnt help that my final term for my B.A.S was upon me at the same time.
Fast foward a few months, my time is less chaotic and begin considering resubbing again. I hear about the upcoming, now active EHP nerfs. Yay now my carrier has as much EHP as my old incursion mach(exaggeration but feels that way). My nyx, already a not so tanky super is now even less tanky. If my rorq gets tackled, sure invuln will save me for a while but you can spit at it and it falls apart.
Then came the removal of ABc’s from null. That one hits me hard. I may only have one rorq, but I mined out my own super. In TEST, 90% of my income was from industry. It is the reason why I was able to fly expensive T3’s, and participate in BLOPS fleets without too much worry about isk flow.
The artificial shortage actually has me worried for the overall health of the economy. Now that ships blow up easier, adding a supply shortage simply makes the problem into a compounded scenario that can easily fracture at a moments notice.
I honestly doubt large scale thausand player fights will happen, or at least very rarely.
I have never been happy with certain decisions like skill injecting, seemingly ignorant of RMT, botting, and overall a greater feeling that CCP only cares about the MTX potential, rather than fixing long lasting problems.
So, now I read this CSM report that covers zero of my problems and it does not help. It actually makes me more worried with the mobile market talk.
I am a subscriber and will remain that way, but time will tell I suppose.
@@Jintaan for null sec people it feels like capitals are nerfed into the ground and made useless just to please small gangs roams. which whine when 20 capitals cyno in. well guess what. everyone defends their space as they want and if you have issues feel free to start entosis
TDor I was one of those who almost never responded to a small gang in a capital. Id rather pull out my T3’s, or other subcap toys.
For the irony of it, I only responded with caps for cap saves (usually in a fax) or to counter other caps.
Do a PVP and a PVE Server... Then more Ppl will play EVE. All new Players i talk to said they don't wanna be ganked all the time by gankers. That's the fact. PVP should be limited and th Playerbase will rise.... That's all -.-"