LDS Church Donations Misused via Ensign Peak - Whistleblower David Nielsen on 60 Minutes | Ep 1765
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Do members deserve to know where their dollars go? Or do those details deserve to be kept secret?
Mark Pugsley is back in the house with John Dehlin to discuss the recent 60 minutes coverage of the current investigation into the Mormon Church's financial dealings.
00:03:25 Background on David Nielsen
00:08:40 David Nielsen is a sincere guy, he was just trying to do the right thing
00:12:25 Clip 1 - David Nielsen
00:14:20 Law of consecration
00:17:00 The church made 1.8 billion in the first three months of this year.
00:18:20 Clip 2 - SEC summary
00:20:00 I don’t think they followed their lawyers advice
00:21:50 Is signing false statements part of the law of consecration?
00:22:25 Ensign Peak exposed these people to criminal liability for over twenty years.
00:26:30 Utah has the highest rate of ponzi schemes
00:29:20 Clip 3 - Culture of Ensign Peak
00:30:20 Mission One was to hide the money.
00:33:46 Clip 4 - What is the value of Ensign Peak?
00:40:00 He said explicitly this is NOT for the Second Coming.
00:41:20 The church also counts member volunteer hours as “charity”
00:41:45 The amount of money going to charities is ZERO.
00:44:10 The church can ask if a girl touches herself, but members can't ask how much money they have.
00:46:40 Tithing is about control, more than it is about money.
00:48:55 Clip 5 - Not secret, it’s confidential
00:51:30 Ensign Peak should have been as an investment advisor, they manage other money,
00:52:00 Members should say “it’s confidential” rather than answering
00:54:20 The most effective missionary tool would be to send these boys out to build wells, feed people, house people, give clean water, etc.
00:59:00 The Church is using tithing money to settle these sex abuse cases
01:02:00 Once money goes in, it doesn't come out
01:02:25 Clip 6 - Tax Exempt Status
01:03:10 Mark thinks that’s not the concern, the US protects religious entities
01:05:29 Clip 7 - Bishop Waddell on Beneficial Life & City Creek Mall
01:08:48 Why are we using the money for for-profit ventures?
01:09:09 Clip 8 - Phillip Hackney how much charity is enough
01:10:15 There is a moral obligation for the Church to give to charity
01:13:00 Clip 9 - Erosion of Trust
01:14:28 He says “there’s no more discussion” about Ensign Peak
01:16:40 The church assigns financial numbers to ward members volunteer hours
01:21:10 Ensign Peak is the Church’s treasury, it’s the church’s bank.
01:24:00 If what results is shaming the church into doing more, this is all worth it.
01:26:25 Clip 10 - more on the SEC…
01:28:57 Most whistleblowers remain anonymous,
01:30:00 Clip 11 - IRS investigation
01:31:50 Breaking news from a Financial Clerk
01:35:40 The church assigns a dollar amount for people attending church
01:37:16 YM get 20,000 while YW get 2,000 per year
01:39:00 Clip 12 - The money quote
01:40:20 Isn’t it sad that only one of Ensign Peak had integrity to leave and speak out?
01:41:20 Criticisms of 60 Minutes
01:43:10 “A Letter to the IRS Director”
01:46:18 The Church’s response to the 60 Minutes report
01:50:00 Carah’s Tik Tok
01:52:37 Clip 13 - It’s easy to manage if you don’t have to be accountable
01:57:15 Find another organization to give your money to.
___________________
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When we were young, “starving” couple, raising five kiddos, we borrowed money on our credit cards just to pay tithing. And as we struggled, along with others, the church didn’t care. To see this makes me so upset. I’m glad we left the church 30+ years ago… never, ever to go back!
The church does not recommend borrowing tithing on credit cards.
@@briansmith4241 the Church is a fraud - period.
@@briansmith4241 it doesn't, but the church doesn't discourage members from donating in times of a financial crisis - in fact, it's considered heresy and a faultering faith if they dont.
So if someone is struggling, they have to pay tithing anyway and if they get screwed over and have to start using credit cards to handle their mortgage/life, then it's their fault for not having enough "faith". It's an endless cycle, and so her statement can be technically true in a whole other sense and the church and it's doctrine is still at fault.
@@briansmith4241 In their teachings, LDS ties earthly payments to heavenly payoffs. It's a very effective method for keeping their coffers well funded. I can see why members would feel pressure to give money they don't have. Unfortunately, the Mormon church isn't the only religious doctrine that condones and justifies extortion in this manner.
That's absolutely disgusting, I'm so sorry you went through this. 😢
I am Christian, I have attended multiple churches where the pastor’s explicit policy is that if you’re a member, they will open their books 100%. EVERY church I have attended has provided a detailed balance sheet at the annual meeting and opened the floor for questions or concerns. The LDS response is unacceptable.
I'm an exmormon, now atheist, and I must say the way your church handles its books is very refreshing. This reminds me of some churches I've seen that are openly welcoming and supportive of LGBT people. I may not be a religious person anymore, but it warms my heart a little to know that there _are_ churches out there that act ethically and humanely.
Same I was confused, my church (baptist) has meetings where members can vote on anything and where every cent is talked about mortgage etc so it’s so weird to see this.
I was the secretary of my Lutheran church for 16 years (I was born, raised and still attend this church). I would occasionally be asked for financial reports. I personally didn't handle that but would ask what information they wanted and our treasurer would ALWAYS print out a report for them. It's the parishioner's money, and they have a right to know where it's going.
So do Dummy Corporations sealed to Shell companies get their own planet -- that would make it all worthwhile.
@@sgee-vc1hz 🤣🤣😂😂
I live in Utah,the fact that the church has a mall...says enough for me. The very fact people still believe this is a church and not a business is insane to me. No Jesus doesn't need a Fing mall
I think it's fun that the local D.I.'s charge for donate merchandise to church members instead of donating to the needy!! I'm sure they need the money real bad!
I love love love when people use fing hahahahahaha
I stand all amazed at the mall Jesus built for me... So ridiculous.
Yes so do I and they own most of downtown SLC. I live in an extreme LDS area where the kids can't play with non LDS kids. There are people living near me who practice polygamy. I have no friends because I don't come to church and my husband does I am the lowest of low.
@@mikelynes1451Okay I just sang the line I Stand All Amazed. 😂 Ex-Mormon here but that was my late dad’s favorite song.
I’ll never stop dying at the irony of the church changing its logo to be a picture of Jesus Christ during a global pandemic and telling everyone just to take to social media to be grateful while sitting on 100+ billion dollars, quite literally personifying Jesus’ rebuke of people who try to get close to him with their words, but their hearts are far from him.
I felt the same way. The Church that I was attending they did the same thing. I haven't been to Church since. But we go to Church to serve the Father, the Son & the Holy Ghost. I had a hard time. I was a faithful tither. I struggled with the 501 (C) 3. Most Churches are under that. IMHO they replaced the Godhead and put the Governments head on the Church. IMHO the tithes are being used to purchase real estate and build buildings. I'm not going on any media and watch Church on line.
No worries about not having food and no where to live. The Catholic Church, Mormon Church, Jehovah Witnesses, Seventh Day, I mean hey the list is very long and prosperity preacher's have enough land to and money to take care of us.
The cartoon is called DuckTales... And it is amazing!
@@ainokea911 Which is why I am glad I am a part of a small baptist church. We aren't even asked to tithe - simply to give if we are able and called to. No guilt in it and no pressure. We even take "good will" offerings if another family is struggling to make ends meet and it goes 100% to them. THAT is what Jesus looks like - not the lie of the LDS.
@@christinag.7801 Thanks for that information. You know my friend lives in Molokai. The Church she attends, they are no longer under a 501 (C3) Church. Our tithes are tax exempt. Imagine the taxes we pay. I live on Oahu born and raised. We are taxed twice. Most of our goods come by way of shipping.
Many years ago, my late (and ex-mo) sister summed the church this way “It’s OK to lie, cheat and steal as long as you don’t drink or smoke.”
It’s like the Catholic Church, it’s ok to do whatever you want on Saturday as long as you go to confession, pay your tithes and go to church on Sunday.
I was raised by a single mother who paid tithing before paying for our essentials because her bishop told her it would increase her blessings. I remember the day her bishop told her that the church couldn’t financially help us anymore. We lost our home…
Yes!!!! That is like the area I live in. Even some members don't believe they do that sort of thing.
I so wish that the money I tithed could be somehow retrieved & given to Mormon Stories. I was a convert...so alone & in dire need of a congregation of some sort. Having known Mormons throughout much of my life (and truly loving them all), at a moment of weakness, in a flash - a blur - I was baptized, had my Patriarchal Blessing done, baptized for dozens of deceased relatives (which was downright weird to me). I treasured my Temple Recommend & having my genealogy done. THEN, 12 years later, I began to actually listen to podcasts, read articles that were a "no-no," and now I'm back to square one. But I am so grateful to learn the truth of it all. I've grateful to John D. Thank you for opening up my eyes.
That baptism off the dead disgusts me. If I am dead I don't want them baptizing me into LDS faith I had a relative that converted to LDS. I wonder if she was baptizing our dead relatives. That is so......wrong, bizzare, and pretentious.
@@merricat3025 My father-in-law never attended "the church." My mother-in-law was a lifelong Mormon. My father-in-law died first and several years later mother-in-law died. Not long after she passed, her sisters called another family member to ask to have father-in-law baptized and sealed. We (my hub is a former Mormon now Lutheran) were never asked. It really made me angry. He said "it means nothing, so let it go.." When the hub's sister died, again aunts and uncles wanted to get her sealed to her mom and dad. Again, we found out way later. I'm still cranky about both! They know we'd say "No. To us, it means nothing, so do what you want." I just want our voices heard. We love the aunts and uncles to death, but this does piss me off.
@It's me, Cheryl these sealing are ridiculous too. Polygamy in the afterlife; men can have more wives....amongst other problems.
@@merricat3025 Agree!!
@@merricat3025 the Jews sued the church and won a cease and desist on converting dead Jews. They were using the list of holocaust victims, not actual relatives of current members. But the case they lost covered having a relative as a current member, they were still barred from baptizing dead Jews with any excuse. They had to back away from all Jews, they did ask them nicely for years before they sued them.
I remember a Bishop once telling a self supporting woman that she was to pay her tithe in full before paying her bills and the church would help as they could. The woman got I'll, had very little income, and no money for all bills or food. She called the Relief Society President of her Ward and explained she needed food as she had one can off vegetables left. I know that was true. She showed me her cabinets and the one can when I took food to her. She was told by by the RS Pres they would get back to her. She waited 2 1/2 days and finally called the RSPees back. She was told they were trying to decide which Ward it was the responsibility of to help her. ( They had recently built another Ward Ina near town and sent many members from the first Ward to attend the new one to increase their members). That lad phoned a nondenominational Pastor in her town and explained to him what was going on. Within an hour he was backing up to her back door with a car filled with enough food and household products to last her for several months!!! He also handed her an envelope with several hundred dollars and told her to pay they bills as needed. That Pastor had gotten on the phone and called 4 other local Preachers, they got together all the food and products quickly and gathered donations from church members and hurriedly got them to the lady in need!!! I never saw a woman cry so hard and be so thankful for these wonderful Pastors who got together and provided. That woman no longer belongs to the Church!! BUT it touched her so deeply that when she was well and on her feet she phoned that first Pastor , made sure he had her number, and told him to let her know when someone is in need. Now, on her own she finds people in need, shows up at their door and gives help. When the Pastor calls, she responds and gives help. I would venture to say every month she helps 3 to 4 families with food, pay a bill, provide clothes. She says she believes God approves of her using the money that would have gone to tithing to help those in need because that is what Jesus would do.
Very nice story. Thank you for sharing.
Blessings to this women and those Pastors and members
So, if you aren’t an honest tithe payer, you literally can’t go to the temple. Even if you withhold a dollar. But, it’s okay for the church to be dishonest in every single financial aspect, deliberate secrecy, with money PAID by those honest tithes. This is the biggest example of flagrant, super irony. Good God.
Sounds like the government of the US ?
The most truthful and real thing I have ever heard was one of his last statements about being happier after leaving the church! Seeing the world for what it is, and not for what we were told it was..
I agree with David. I'm happier then I have ever been after leaving the church. Bravo to those who have also.
I missed that part. Where did David Nielsen say that?
Me too! I felt no void, there was no sense of spiritual loss. There was less guilt. Also, $100 BILLION could have made it so there were no poor, no members going without medical care, no single mom's having to work 1 or 2 jobs, rarely being there for their children, etc., etc.! That's heart-breaking to me.😢
@@lisagrace6471 not DN, the man on this interview with John
@@user-bw3fl7fj9w oh ok. I still must have missed it, but good to know on that clarification- thank you!🥰
@@lisagrace6471 you're welcome!
The people in a cult are the last to know...
But now folks have internet access.
@@charlesmendeley9823 they are told to avoid anti lds associations, even a temple question
When I was a child, attending public school in the United States, in the 60s, we were taught that lying was called… “Lying.“
You count your blessings while the church counts your money.
My little brother is on a mission state-side currently, and he can't afford to buy freaking milk. This is so so so common. Not only are missionaries and their families paying for them to go be salespeople for the church - THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE FUNDS A LOT OF THE TIME. I've literally cried about this to my boyfriend, about my frustrations that he can't effing afford to EAT, and how my parents are scraping together extra funds to send to him, and he feels guilty using those funds...and all this time, these kids going on missions are working their butts off in high school to save up thousands of dollars to go preach the word of god. And that supposedly most true representation of Jesus Christ on earth today is a corporation hoarding money for "a rainy day". Meanwhile, people WITHIN THEIR OWN CHURCH are suffering!!!!!!!!
I've been there! I've been that poor missionary! My parents and 2 of my siblings were those poor missionaries, one of whom literally ate popcorn and cabbage for their meal for the day. (And the cabbage was given to them by a member.)
The rainy day is today. There are people suffering right now, and they have the ability to change people's lives. But they don't. This is the exact f**king opposite of EVERYTHING I was taught about growing up. About charity, and good will, and how helping others and having compassion and empathy are the most important things. About loving your neighbor. Jesus was so against sh*t like this. This was the type of thing he stood up AGAINST. The church is a dangerous, destructive group parading around under the mask of good old simple, Jesus lovin folk. Worst part is, so many people are that way. But they're taken advantage of for their kindness - by the exact organization that supposedly taught them about kindness. It's predatory. It's abusive. It's wrong.
I don't want to take people out of the church - I can't force anyone, and we all have our own journeys. What I do want is for my loved ones to stop being taken advantage of. For missionaries to stop going hungry. For young women's programs to have funding. For people not to be pressured into giving up their grocery/medicine/rent & bills money for the sake of "promised blessings". For LGBTQ+ people to not kill themselves because they aren't accepted and are shamed. For sexual shame and repression to be nonexistent. For there to be diversity in representation in the church. For leaders to be of all age ranges, skin colors, and genders. For worthiness interviews to stop existing. For fear to stop being what leads your choices, usually subconsciously - and for love to win, instead. Good god, there is no god in this church. If god exists - this is NOT their church.
Awomen
This is another thing that really pisses me off about the money hoarding by the church… these families get “called” to do these missions, so why doesn’t the church pay for it? These families are feeding 2 to 7 kids and can’t afford to send their of age kids out on these missions, yet their bishops shame them into fulfilling this calling to serve, at the detriment to their finances. Oh, and they still have to pay tithing.. I hope they get their asses kicked
Then the church tells members of the wards to feed the missionaries. Ok, if you have enough families able to handle it...but, what about those missionaries serving in areas where members can barely pay their own bills, after paying tithing and fast offerings, themselves!! More quilt trip... when they could just be supported by the church, since they had to pay for their own missions, including books and clothes! Oh, and don't forget the garments!
You know what... we get constant LDS Elders visiting our home. I often hand them bottles of water. But now I'm going to tuck some $25 grocery & Tim Horton's cards next to our front door to give to those kids too.
They should not go hungry.
Go, young ones, buy some Timmy's doughnuts, milk, a sandwich, share with your roomies, feed your bodies, be well.
And that's from an *agnostic*.
I don't need God to know what's RIGHT.
The way they treat missionaries is awful. I remember being shocked when they took away cars and made them ride bicycles. I also remember a young missionary telling me that they really appreciate church members inviting them to dinner now and then. He said that peanut butter was their salvation salve.
Got married as a faithful obedient virgin in 1997. Same first year as Ensign Peak. Faithfully paid tithing through husband’s law school, usually the exact same amount we needed to buy groceries, but we paid cash for tithing and put the groceries on the credit cards. Maxed out that final credit card upon law school graduation. Tried to pay those off, but when son was born after law school, we had to declare bankruptcy., so I could try to be a SAHM like Mormon Jesus taught me in the 80’s. (Still, I worked at night lol)
We and the tens of thousands of dollars we paid in tithing from 1997-2013 would like to have a word….
I think the church should start by refunding to all of us that paid for our missions to recruit more tithings to this filthy rich church !
Nothing quite demonstrates the infantilization of its members as the Church saying "there will be no more discussion about ..." Like a parent speaking harshly to a child in the back seat of a car, "We're done talking about this"
Nothing has driven me away from the Church as the Church itself. Everything they do makes things worse. I wish the leadership would practice the principles they so harshly enforce with its own members.
Some would say this is the trouble with lying...you have to keep doing it ...or come clean.
Saw church released a follow up comment... of course, read like the weren't treated fairly.
To say the church leaders were unaware…not buying it. If it’s an “auxiliary of the church” with holdings of $150B+, it’s extremely unlikely the leadership was kept in the dark.
Doesn’t pass the smell test.
Great conversation. 1:23:21
100% agree. If you're not aware that something that big is going on, you're an idiot. And all the GA's are retired attorneys, businessmen...I don't believe for a second they didn't kno.
We have to answer the question, “Are you honest in all your dealings with your fellow man” in order to get a temple recommend. Of course their second anointing excuses them.
🤮🤮🤮🤮
Ensign Peak reminds me of the movie “The Firm”, by John Grisham. A cult within a cult😢
Yup I watched 60 minuets ... the “bishop” and the smirk on his face with every question asked “ not divulging your assets seem very suspicious .... “ just makes me wanna slap that smirk off his face
Me too!
Amen
They leaders knew exactly what they were doing.
“You can buy anything in this world for money” 😮
Wow, just wow! And wards are asking for donations for nursery treats, members paying for supplies for events, on and on…..
"Misused" is the kindest way of saying the church is hording money for no reason so your money will do just as much good if you take 10% of it and burn it.
You can get some heat from the burning money
Most Christians would donate it to charitable causes such as soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc.
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS leaders and officials have mastered the skill of obfuscation, it's impossible for them to be specific on anything except to tell members exactly how much tithing to pay.
I was floored when I found out LDS members are required to tithe to be a member. That would never “fly” in any church I’ve been a part of. Our members always were welcome to see the financial statements, as well.
to be completely straightforward: you aren't required to tithe to simply be a member. you are required to tithe to get into the temple, which is where soul saving ordinances are done. you are required to tithe to be a fully blessed member.
I can't believe they didn't help their very own people during the pandemic!
I really started questioning the Church leaders during the Mark Hoffman bombings and trial.. I could not believe the leaders didn't step forward on their own and tell absolutely everything they knew about Hoffman and their dealings with him..plus their feeling entitled to the point of not testifying in a court or being called in to cover everything in detail.. I was horrified at their behavior, cover ups, and not doing all they could to see Justice done!!!
They are an organized-crime corporation. During the Hofmann investigations, many of the prosecution team became convinced that they were being stonewalled by leaders of the LDS Church. Chief investigator Jim Bell said, "They're hiding something; the church is doing everything it can to make this as difficult as possible. I've never seen anything like this in a homicide investigation."
the olds dudes in SLC are without honor.
I bet at next year’s conference they announce a much larger charitable donation
That was one of the main points they made in this podcast.
Right?! I take that bet too.
Oh my gosh when the comment was made that it is unlikely the money used to pay off victims of sex abuse was from Ensign Peak but probably is from tithing, I had a visceral physical reaction. Immediately gagged and was brought to tears. It is absolutely revolting that a single cent of tithing has potentially gone to quiet victims and sweep sexual abuse under the rug. Disgusting on every possible level. The church has broken my heart again, wow.
I am so grateful for honest reporting, research, transparency and "choosing the right" in the 60 Minutes broadcast with David Nielsen, and this Mormon Stories episode with JD and Mark Pugsley, and of course Gerardo Sumano (shout out!) for producing. As someone with experience in internal audits, accounting, financials, and fraud detection within a nationwide company, I am glad this story could be covered and to talk about the "nuts and bolts" facts of the situation and the SEC charges against the LDS Church, and this is at such a more "macro-level." It certainly is not easy to be a whistleblower at this level. Good work, good reporting, and social media follow-up.
I am nevermo. That episode with Geraldo and Mexivan bishop made me so sad and angry. Telling people (who may have no money) that they had to tithe and the money set to SLC is atrocious . The church I go to has collection, but you don't have to pay a cent to attend (like many churches, I am sure). My church also donates money to needy in the area (like many, I would guess). Where I live their is an organization that supplies assistance to the needy in the area. A number of churches in the area fund it. You don't need to be a member of any church or even be Christian.
It seems to me if you as a church are going to ask members to pay their tithing first before they buy food for their family then you as a church should be spending a tithe of what you have for charitable purposes
Amen Sister, I can't agree with you more. That pandemic came to humanity to expose these Churches.
They kinda do. They'll pay rent for like 4months and utilities in pretty nice apartments... For NON members! Just have to go to church every Sunday so they can hopefully convert you!. But when a lifelong remember dies unexpectedly and the family needs help for funeral and shit. Crickets. It's ridiculous
It doesn’t work that way with LDS. They have a hierarchy of priesthood that is large and in charge. They decide. Period. Full stop. They like the Jehovah’s Witness have a magic # 250,000. That is how many men will rule what is left after the rapture. (You know Moses has to be sitting in a seat, is what my brother told me when he was learning his role in the priesthood ). But the rest not climbing that ladder are sheep without a voice. Earthly Money and power has always been the goal and pulling together to get the priesthood in charge of as much as possible. The more control they have the more power the church wields They have been running for president of USA since Joseph Smith ran in his lifetime, controlling USA is a founding father major goal. To be Mormon is to be pushing the agenda of the priesthood. They claim god says they can’t be wrong. If you question their motives or plan you are out of line.
@@cynthiashaw45 Mormons do not believe in a “magic number”. I’m no longer practicing but did for 30 years, the idea of a limited number of people being “saved” is not something I was ever taught. That being said- I would not be shocked to find some obscure teaching from a random church leader cached away that discusses this. But as a general belief or doctrine, I don’t know a single Mormon who believes this
Every time a church spokesperson talks of how many members they have it is annoying to me. I left in 1978 and asked in writing to have my name removed and my sealing undone and they won’t do it. They will set up a meeting to do an excommunication profile on you but they won’t just remove you. I stayed stuck because if I was cornered into meeting with them there are crazy questions to harass me for being wrong to want out. . I was outraged! let me get this straight…..your here to find blame and excommunicate a victim of a pedophile you haven’t excommunicated? Is THAT the plan ? They go back to their day jobs and don’t do anything. Still a member ….my mother is all about that sealing 🙄🫤. Still claimed a member, I had to let that go. They never did excommunicate that guy and he had more victims after me. And they wonder why I wouldn’t come back, or want my children there? Bothersome ppl.
Maybe most members aren't complaining, at least not out loud. But I wouldn't be surprised if this news makes it harder to get people to show up to clean the building for free.
One of the sad things about this situation is that the first presidency probably knows that TBMs believe their money is going to help the homeless, sick, unprotected and the poor. It's sad however that most of those dollars by far are not going toward those endeavors.
But - financially struggling members are basically told that if you do not pay your tithing you cannot go to the temple and therefore you will not get to the celestial kingdom. It is blackmail of the poorest and most needy to fund the church's horrific greed.
True, plus recently I realized that Jesus only saves you to the lowest glory... to get to the higher ones including Celestial kingdom is via doing your callings, temple ordinances..
How much is a billion?
(grains of salt edtion)
2.5 tsp is 100,000 grains of salt
1/2 a cup is a million grains of salt
A bathtub full is a billion grains of salt
The church is worth roughly 250 billion ... that is enough salt to fill every bathtub in every house for 1/4 of a mile in all directions from your house (if you live in a normal subdivision).
... just to put this wealth into perspective. 🙃
They need to pay taxes along with every church in this country. None of them provide for their communities to justify tax exemption.
That's not true, there are churches that give back to the community as much as they can to their members along with non-members.
The huge religious corporations like the Mormon church however require you to be a member and pay your tithing in order to receive benefits, unless they're doing charity for PR or trying to recruit members in 3rd world countries.
The Mormon church should not in any way type or form get any tax exempt statuses, but again, that shouldn't tie to every single church.
The church let me become homeless, I've been homeless for a year and a half, I was a member for five years before this happened, I left soon after as all my brother turned their backs on me, except for a select few I had grown a bit close to. I'm so thankful for them and their individual efforts, but learning that the church's worth so much for charity. The pandemic showed me that the church was very corrupt and a false representation of Christ. What they're doing to these poverty stricken countries is disgusting, is heinous, is insidious, and to have people openly justify and defend is a direct offense against God. It's inhumane and a stain on this country and religion because we allow these monsters to exist. I felt worthless and I truly gave them a chance as a new convert and helped missionaries recruit others, but no one that we baptized stay, so I wonder how much of the member numbers are padded. As I watched so many mentally incompetent and elderly and desperate for help got baptized to only eventually get shunned from the church by generational believers.
here in australia the latest australian government stastics reveal that the lds church has declined by 6 .6 percent in the last 5 years there are only 48 thousand lds in australia and only 30 thousand active . but the jehovahs witnesses increased by 2.6 percent to 88 thousand and the seventh day adventists increased by 1.7 cent to 66 thousand. the 2 groups were the only 2 christian churches that grew .
@@robertbusuttil7848 jws are not Christians.
One of my bishop’s told our temple prep class of future missionaries that the only reason he pays his tithing is because he’s scared not to. That never sat well with me and I immediately felt that reasoning was 1000% an unhealthy reason to give such large sums of your money to anyone. So so sad there are so many good people who live in fear like that and devote so much time, heart, and money to an institution who doesn’t care at all about them. Sounds like an abusive, one sided relationship to me.
I agree with your assessment.
What you describe is extortion- plain and simple.
I was told if you didn't pay your tithing from the heart. Then not to pay it at all. Im sorry so many have problems with certain personalities. Ive never experienced any of those circumstances. Im not interested in hearing this. But I hope everyone finds peace. Where ever they sit.
@@michellejean8068 If you believe that you must follow certain religious doctrine because your clergy tells you told that if you don't, you'll lose your salvation and suffer agonizing torture for all eternity, you're a victim of extortion.
It's also a common reason many of us stay or haven't left yet, or not formally left
I’m so glad that in the later years I open my ayes to see the church as it really is, this just confirms it. Thank you David for letting this out for all to hear and know. And thank you John for all you do and bring.
This is very interesting discussion to watch ❤❤❤ from East Africa.
The church should still require 10% donations. But instead of giving to the church, give it to your charity of choice.
Why should the church be asking for 10%? The tithe was given to the Levites to make the offering because they weren't given a portion of the land. When Jesus came and fulfill the law of sacrifice, he paid the price he paid all the tithing the law is fulfilled. There is no longer a need for tithing if the laws of the Old Testament were fulfilled by Jesus
I have coworkers who volunteer for Doctors Without Borders on their vacation. I had another coworker who was saving her money to serve a mission in South America helping the poor. None of these coworkers are Mormon. I have no idea why The Church doesn’t reform their missionary program to more closely resemble some kind of Christ Corps helping people. They would be unstoppable
Because the Mormon church doesn't even want its members to be aware that other churches exist, because if they were aware, they would know that they can truly follow Jesus without impoverishing themselves for the benefit of a corrupt cult/corporation. They have to maintain control at all costs, which has always been their M.O. Alas, they can't just burn printing presses anymore.
@@randyjordan5521 on tithing slips there's a section you can donate more money and put it to specific areas like missionaries and humanitarian causes. So, basically, members who do these could be the money donated, and not really from tithing money itself.
The Catholic Church & Catholic Charities, their charitable arm that exists/works ALL AROUND THE WORLD, is involved in TONS of good programs related to hunger, health, housing, maternal/child needs, etc… & other charitable ventures in city centers and across developing countries, & spends like 95-99% on their actual charity ventures (as opposed to marketing/management/employees etc) and is always graded Very highly on charity evaluation grps & monitors, and they help causes/ppl whether they’re Catholic & related to a Catholic entity/concern or not… Most often they’re not. They just aim to ease human suffering and disasters around the world. Catholic Charities is actually an amazing & effective charity.
Prophets, Seers, and Revelators? Really? How 'bout: Profiteers and Confabulators!
A lifelong devout MORMON native of Ghana with 4 young kids, a mother, and a wife all living now in Tampa that needed church welfare help when conned out of his meager home leaving them penniless. Bishop promised to help for a year to get them back on their feet by paying rent and food. Bishop, although, said those funds were sacred and not given out easily. The member was harassed, belittled, threatened, and intimidated by the Bishoprick team after that because of his situation. His wife went to work and signed up for her GED. He started working on setting up various business deals using his contacts in Ghana, Brazil, and Japan; and working with a volunteer member attorney for contracts. After just 2 months the Bishoprick said they had NO MORE MONEY TO HELP HIS FAMILY and walked away without further explanation. WOW. WTFlick.
Waddell seems like a slime ball to me 🤷🏼♀️
He has become an internet meme on the exmormon subreddit. 😂
Same
I guess this brings them into the same company with "mainstream" Christians like Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, et al.
Kenny Copeland is a demon….😡
Probably worse, at least those don’t claim to be Prophets and Seers and have higher priesthood, etc.
It's called SIN all of it
You ask yourself, Really Joel you need a 10 million dollar home, really Kenneth Copeland you need that sprawling acreage of land with a plane. And the Goverment wants us to live in chicken coups and eat outdated food from food banks. I've seen it all. God is exposing all of this. You can go on and with the greed, power and corruption.
@@jodyjensen3736 It's called grift.
They do not give nearly enough to disasters I was shocked with how little they gave to the katrina relief. And they always say oh we help out under the Red Cross banner that’s because they know just how little they give and know members would be disgusted
Bees are hoarders, and Utah is the beehive state, what do we expect?
An alternate title to this episode might well be "Whistleblower David Nielsen on LDS Church Misuse of Member's Trust via Ensign Peak"
The funds are "confidential," Waddell says, but not according to the law. Another bold face lie told by another GA.
I'm a simple man. I see a video with Mark Pugsley I watch it.
David Nielsen is a
man honest to the core... ❤
Very happy more ppl are aware of this and a lot more regular, everyday, non-Mormon Americans have knowledge abt it…
BTW, alot of ppl are discussing it, & what I hear is that they’re ABSOLUTELY APPALLED and COMPLETELY DISGUSTED by what they’ve heard on this 60 mins news report.
Who do you see discussing it? Just curious
The love of money is the root of all evil .
The real root problem is not the secrecy and sneakiness of the church, but rather the authoritarian / gullible quality of a critical mass of the Mormon followers. It's hopeless to try to solve this by attacking the church. Better to spread more awareness at the public and popular cultural level, and that will seep into the Mormon and broader American culture... which, in turn, will eventually result in changes at the church level. We just have to continue to raise awareness... just like when, in the early 20th century, the church could no longer sustain the practice of plural marriages. Public awareness does, eventually, steer very large ships. I know it's tempting to directly attack the church, but the real strategy is to just keep spreading awareness at the basic public level.
It's also a warning for when the missionaries come knocking!
I absolutely loved this episode!! 👏🏼👏🏼
Mike Lee and Mitt Romney will never allow the LDS church to have any consequences.
There seem to be similar stories on 60 Minutes Australia and The Fifth Estate in Canada.
@Lisa
Yes, ive seen on similar news reporting that "the church" is under investigation in Australia and Canada for hiding /funneling money there too.
These were covered in previous episodes. But this US 60 Minutes episode really got viral, with more than 1.5 million views on CZcams alone.
This is even more staggering than what those shows had
They always teach "Live in the world but not of the world." But the temples are so over the top. All they seem to care about is money for their so called rainy day fund. This is so frustrating even being an exmo.
It's not Mormons, it's The Bsnk of Latter Day $aints
The Corporation of Rusty Nelson of the Latter-Day Frauds....it fits better.
"So you're an non-profit?"
"Yes we are"
"How much profit do you have?"
"Over 150 Billion"
"OK, What I'm I missing?"
I worked with your parents in Bristol uk Mark. Your poor father was so stressed out being a mission president. Heck, i didn't know he gave everything up and dragged his two youngest sons away from their homes at 12&14 yrs old. Ed drove the mission car into the wall of the house 😅 your dad nearly had kittens. Oh i could tell you stories of your younger brothers. Never a dull moment 😂
60 Minutes Australia has a great segment on Australia and the church regarding this subject.
Ooooofff. That cut me to my core- the interviewee's statement at the end that out if 40 or 50 people who work at Ensign Peak, only one had the integrity to do the right thing. Wow!😮😢
Excellent summary of the 60 Minutes episode ... thank you!!! Thank you to David Nielsen!!!!!
Imagine if they gave 10 percent to fund homes for the homeless.
I've actually looked into what it would cost to build a tiny home community for the homeless in Utah (like in Austin, TX and other places in OR) and I think it could realistically be done for 20 million.... that would be so easy. Even if I'm wrong by half, it's possible!
Keep up the pressure for more transparency
The Beatitudes and the Golden Rule (treat others as you want yourself to be treated) are really the essence of how to be a good Christian, IMO.
It is not by Faith alone that one pleases God &/or follows Jesus’ example- it is w/ Faith AND GOOD ACTS; this is according to the Bible…
The mormons use the name of Jesus in vain to get rich...simple ..😔😔😔😞
The LDS church supposedly cares so much about the young men and women in their church, but they are sending them into poverty. My wife and I are Christians in our 20s trying to minister to Mormons around us. My wife was hanging out with a Mormon friend of hers (also in her 20s) and her child. While at their house, another Mormon mother of 3 kids (also in her 20s) came over to deliver food to help feed our friends child. She was using food stamps for her family of 5 to also provide for our Mormon friends. The LDS church wants more young members, and pushes young married couples to have as many kids as possible with their restrictions on birth control. They are putting young couples with kids into poverty by demanding tithes and returning nothing to their members. Leaving members like the ones we know on food stamps struggling to feed their own kids and families around them.
And, therefore, actually non Mormon people are helping the members, who should be helped by the church. Since taxpayers fund the food stamps. From what I can remember, church used to tell us take care of yourself, by paying your tithes first, then live within your means, stay out of debt...if need help serk it first from family, the government and last resort was asking the church for help.
Thanks! Your videos and podcast really fill my intrigue during TV shows' writers' strike. I'm still a member, but I'm really "checked out" spiritually and just go for the community and social benefits.
That's what I did for a while too, but learned that community exists outside the church, you just have to go find it. I couldn't continue in such a corrupt organization knowing what I did.
@@schrecksekunde2118 regular TV shows...those writers are on strike...
I love the comment about missionary’s picking up a shovel
First Church of Scientology and now LSD although the ex-members I have listened to are very thoughtful and smart people. Only America of this corruption and greed we have in this country.
The problem is the IRS is no longer, they are in trouble also. We have a lot of problems in this country. All 3 letter agencies are on the way out. There is no one at the IRS building.
It looks like the leaders of the LDS have fashioned for themselves a golden calf.
Why won’t they even say what how much they have. They need to start being more compassionate and helping all those who are in need use their billions to provide homes for the homeless
What about providing more jobs instead of just giving money to people. That would be better for everyone.
@Alex-xz5ey they could easily do both.
I don’t believe the quorum of the twelve didn’t know because they used to give out financial statements at general conference 30-40 years ago so how could they not know
David Nielsen is an outstanding human. I trust him more than the prophet or apostles of the church. Thank you David for being honest and having integrity, so much praise and respect to you for doing what was right. Thank you.
Also, I really enjoy conversations with Mark. Also an outstanding human, thank you ❤️
When I was a very fully active and faithful member, I wondered why I would feel an oppressive feeling when I was in northern Utah especially. I wondered why I would feel that if it was supposed to be a mecca of pure, high spirituality of God.
Yes, I have felt that too, like a dark, heavy, oppressive cloud over the area.
I assume that many church members around the world are not aware of all this, which is pretty sad…
Thanks!
Building infrastructure in third worlds is a mission where I would go, and I’m not a Mormon.
And providing for our own elderly, homeless, veterans, disabled, etc would be a very good mission for a Church Program. One program I have often thought about if I had money to do it would be to obtain a multi unit apartment building of 2 to 3 bedroom units. Them people would have to apply for a unit . Single parents with children be given priority . A well.msnaged and staffed childcare facility maintained on site solely for use by the unit dwellers WHILE THEY ARE WORKING or in EDUCATiONAL CLASSES approved by the program and geared to teaching skills that will enhance the adults opportunities to gain steady well paying employment. These people would have to be alcohol and illegal drug free and willing to have periodic drug tests . If they fail this rule and have illegal substances found in their systems they are immediately dropped from the program and will not be allowed to apply again for 5 years. And if in EDUCATiONAL CLASSES must maintain at the least part time employment with more hours worked during class breaks. The program would have a crew to help these people apply for SNAP, utility assistance , to help until their employment salary is over the allowed limit. The goal is to get these people independent in jobs with self supporting salaries. Some states have classes in skilled trades ,etc that are free through the state or some fees paid by the state. I have so many ideas for a program such as this but won't detail them here. I don't have the kind of money a program like this would take. Not even enough money to start thinking about a the legalities, the work envolved, but I sure can dream!! A religion with money like that could start a program such as this and then keep expanding it! Please pray for all those with love and hope in their hearts and ask our Heavenly Father for some dreams to come true!!!
Where was it again...🤔 Ah, yes, I believe it was in 1 Nephi 1, "It must needs be that we amass more money than God."
Yes I remember that being said in the temple. They are just ludicrous why do they need so much money.
That fact about the high rate Ponzi schemes and Utah says everything.
This has PISSED me off for a long time. My mother-in-law joined the LDS church when she was 19 and has paid her tithing faithfully since then. She got completely gaslighted by a former Bishop in the Henderson area and defrauded of almost everything she own. This jackass still is held in high esteem within the community, what a joke!! Now when she needs help from the church they want her to fill out paperwork and give her nothing but problems. They don’t really give her any help at all. It SHAMEFUL!!!
They make you feel so bad when you have to go in and ask for help... They make the bishops feel bad when they give financial help and food to too many members.
All I say is, I am so sorry to all the ones I converted as a missionary. I too was brainwashed
Treasure digging continues, Joseph would be so proud. Rename “Ensign Peak”, “Ensign Peep Stone”.
Remember, you can buy anything on this Earth with money. Didn’t Jesus say lay up for yourselves treasures on earth?
he said lay not up for yourself treasures on earth, but in heaven.
matt 6:19-20
I’ve been on Twitter this week trying to understand faithful LDS.
So far, I’ve been told:
1. LDS church is not a charity
2. LDS prophet & apostles don’t need anyone to tell them how to donate
3. LDS donate & volunteer the most out of everyone in the world
4. LDS church is going to use its money for the Millennium, not for charity now on Earth
5. If the Prophet decides how to invest LDS money, then Jesus told him so
6. LDS faithful want the investments to reach a trillion
7. Any criticism is inspiring faithful LDS to donate MORE
8. Prophet doesn’t need to read Jesus’s words in Matthew 19:21 or Jacob 2:19, because he’s the prophet so his words trump Jesus’s words from the scriptures.
I’ve been astonished by these responses all week. 😳
Brainwashing at its finest. It's much easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they have been fooled. I live in Utah and it is astounding how members will defend the LDS Church's corruption and bigotry. But they are literally taught to "just have faith" in the Church because the Church is "the one and only true church" and anything that paints the Church in a bad light is "anti Mormon propaganda" even if it's just a true fact. They are literally taught to not use critical thinking skills and to just follow blindly and not question anything.
Just like in any other cult.
i remember hearing a member say that there’s a revelation that before the second coming the US government would need to rely on the church financially. if that’s not what they’re saving for then wtf is the point
I don't doubt this story for one minute ... but I would like to point out that any one that thinks the federal government will ever rely on the church for money obviously doesn't know where money comes from. ... a state or local govt, maybe ... but the feds? ... no chance. 😂
So christ, who fed the people with 2 loaves of bread is going to need zillions of dollars?
@Janie K
Exactly!!
@@janiekiester4783 right? Wow
Pure BS that
Was the primary purpose of City Creek Center mall to make money, or was it to prevent the LDS Church's Temple Square from becoming irrelevant?
Before City Creek Center was built, the two main malls in Salt Lake were the ZCMI Center and Crossroads Plaza, which were adjacent to each other and across the street from Temple Square. Visitors to the malls spilled over to Temple Square, which provided a positive PR experience for the LDS Church to millions of people.
In 2001 a more modern outdoor Gateway mall opened four blocks west of the two other malls and Temple Square. The Gateway drew tenants and shoppers away from ZCMI/Crossroads to the point the two malls next to Temple Square were eventually shut down, reducing traffic to the area and to Temple Square.
In 2012 City Creek Center opened as a more modern indoor/outdoor replacement for the two malls to draw tenants and shoppers back from The Gateway. The LDS Church lobbied the City of Salt Lake to prevent Nordstrom from relocating to The Gateway, and Nordstrom became an anchor tenant for City Creek Center. City Creek Center was part of a larger mixed-use development. The Church also bought additional land and part of Main St adjacent to Temple Square and added paths, gardens, and features to attract visitors.
Overall the City Creek Center development project appears to have been successful in bringing back significant traffic from The Gateway and retaining the relevance of Temple Square, even though the Salt Lake Temple itself is currently closed for renovation.
Your assessment makes sense. Thanks for posting this.
Loved the comments about what missionaries should be spending their time on!
It all boils down to control. Pay your tithing and don't ask questions.
The church paid me a compensation amount in November 2022 for childhood sexual abuse at the age of seven at the Mormon chapel. I am able to talk about the case as my lawyer helped me to not sign the confidentiality about talking about it, I just signed not to talk about the amount. The amount is quite small in comparison to amounts child sexual abuse cases receive in the USA (I'm in Australia) and smaller than the Catholic church pays out. As your discussion is talking about confidentiality .. the church has no respect .. I hold no respect for signing any confidentiality. My lawyers were utterly disgusted with the deceit of the Church hiding and distorting the truth, they knew I was sexually abused.
That smile is called duper’s delight
The Mormon church has a problem with HONESTY. Plain and simple. They complicate so much!
They don’t need to give “their “ money for the world! But they need to do a better job to help their members.
they need to do better about actually being the charitable organization they claim to be, which means helping the rest of the world.
They just need to live up to the bold claims they make like being the only true church of Christ, being one of the most charitable organizations, having Prophets that speak directly with God, having the priesthood which is supposed to perform miracles similar to the ones we read in the Bible, etc. none of what they claim to be or do actually happens. That is the very definition of fraud.