Labour MP Hilary Benn with nothing but truth on Brexit failings in powerful speech
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- čas přidán 27. 04. 2023
- In a Westminster Hall debate on the impact of Brexit this week, Labour MP Hilary Benn stood up and spat nothing but facts for ten minutes about the utter failure leaving the European Union has been.
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@@chrispteemagician Spotify?
OMG, please stop remoaning. This was seven years and five months ago now that this happened, and this is REALLY becoming rather tedious. Life still goes on, regardless.
@@lesskeels3417 oh do shut up, democracy is an ongoing process and Brexit is national self harm.
@@lesskeels3417 If you've got on the wrong train because someone misinformed as to where it was going, would you get off as soon as you can? Would tell your travelling companions to stop whining and just accept that you are not going to get to the planned destination rather than accept a mistake was made and turn around asap.
PoliticsJOE - could you include a link to the debates that you're referencing from please? I like your breakdowns and snippets but I would also like to see the whole debate. Diolch / Thanks
One of the many glorious benefits of Brexit was that it showed just how much power the media have over the easily led and politically illiterate British public. The fact that nothing has changed since is a sin...
I clearly remember the morning the result came through looking at the headlines of a Daily Mail on sale at my local supermarket and thinking "Oh, my God. The people who read that thing really DO believe it all."
it has got worse, the Con/media combo, have control over the schools, all mainstream news, the courts, too.
Are you serious the msm was pretty much 100 % pro Brussels
What nationality are you can I ask?
@@jonoessex British here! 🤣 he’s spot on with politically illiterate being easily led with issues that do not really effect their lives, in some case those issues benefit them directly but remain completely oblivious. I’ve lived in Essex, lovely landscape but like anywhere… big portion of plebs banging on about race… why did you ask his nationality?
Conning people is easy, you just need to overcome their intelligence.
But convincing people they have been conned is much harder because you need to overcome their pride.
So true.
Yes, and most people have far more of the latter than the former.
Are you sure? Recent polls suggest buyer's remorse on a massive scale. Rejoiners have a clear majority. I know what you mean though. Meanwhile, have you ever reflected on how the whole sorry saga of division and dysfunction might please any enemies of the state? It isn't so much about whether Brexit is good or bad and much more about the 'divided house' it has created. Brexit, breaks it?
@@roberttownrow3606 How long before reality can't be ignored? Before common sense replaces ideology and the UK re-applies cap in hand for a second chance?
Precisely this point was used by a caller to James O'Brien's programme on LBC.
You must have been listening too 😊. It makes perfect sense...
Such an intelligent man with sensible views...i am british and am embarrased how easily duped the country was
British are evoluted people but sometimes they are deceived
I'm a Brit but have lived in Italy for decades and to all the people with a similar background over here, the consequences were as plain to see as the nose on my face. So I'm not at all surprised about the current problems. Will it change in the long term? I hope so for the UK, but I have very serious doubts.
We don't need truth, when we have ignorance and wishful thinking to guide our way.
"...when we have ignorance and wishful thinking to guide our way"?
indeed you do.
The UK, specifically England, has been producing world-beating amounts of "...ignorance and wishful thinking..." for nearly a decade now.....
Let's not forget ignorance, arrogance and bigotry to boot.
The English approach to Brexit reminds me of the Monty Python skit "Upper Middle Class Twit of the Year" ...
@@xyz061220 🤣🤣🤣
I'm a Malaysian working in Singapore. Both countries are in the Commonwealth and have millions of investment in the UK, but most if not all of them were prior to Brexit. This was due to the familiarity of the language, laws, culture and much more due to being former colonies of the British. In short, we were used to the British and found it easier to invest in the UK because of that, and as a gateway into the EU. Post-Brexit, businesses here are concentrating on investments in the EU directly, and bypassing the UK, despite the different legal systems and languages. Oh, and Malaysia and Singapore are part of ASEAN (Association of South-East Asia Nations), which aspires to integrate their economies like the EU.
As for the Brexiter's dream or aspiration of becoming a Singapore-on-Thames, well, Singaporeans are more pragmatic and realistic than Brexiters. They had to be in order to create the modern and successful Singapore that Brexiters want to emulate. Ask them if they want to exit ASEAN or exit the EU if they were part of it, the answer would be a resounding NO.
Almost everybody here that I talked to about Brexit thought that it was financial and business suicide for the British. And most if not all, put it down to the UK harking back to the days of the British Empire. It wasn't helped by the fact that many Brexiter politicians and businessmen thought that the Commonwealth and the World would gladly trade with the UK on an individual basis. Why should they? And what advantage is there to trading with the UK when it is not a gateway into the EU? Business is business, and it would always look at the bottom line. Brexiters seemed to have forgotten that, or totally ignored it altogether. And with the recent news from the IMF that the UK is the only major economy expected to shrink in 2023, as well as to do worse than Russia (which is heavily sanctioned by the world and fighting a war in the Ukraine) in 2023, well, so much for Brexit!
It isn't about money or economics! Its about culture and sovereignty but Singapore doesn't have or value either of those and the comment " doing business " directly into the EU" only illustrates how Britain only served a utilitarian role and there wasn't really any loyalty. I am sure China will want to control the straits of Mallaca and Singapore will only be secure as long as it continues to give China open access
we can all cherry pick
The UK continues to be Europe's most attractive location for international investment into financial services, according to EY's latest UK Attractiveness Survey for Financial Services, attracting 63 projects in 2021 - an increase of seven projects from 2020
also countries that had sea borders like the UK suffered more harm covid wise due to trade issues - causing loss of more small businesses etc which drops gdp numbers going forward than those who's borders are not sea ones
just screaming brexit did this- is unhinged
ASEAN countries have no intention of becoming like the EU. They will remain independent.
Since Brexit, all the IMFs dire predictions for the UK economy have been proved by the actual facts to be wrong, every single one !
@@voteformethanks5307 Yeah. In spite of all benefits the UK is still the worst performer and it will get way worse.
As a British resident in an EU country, I fought Brexit as hard as I could and flew into London for the last big demonstration arguing for a second vote. Aged 71 now, I doubt that I will see the UK rejoin the EU in my remaining years, and I am filled with sadness on behalf of the young people who will miss out on all the wonderful benefits of EU membership that I enjoyed. 😞
Very well written and as a 64 year old I agree with you 110%. It’s a bloody tragedy. Unfortunately if you put idiots such as JRM, BJ & NF In positions of power, this is what can and likely will happen!
tbh
even if uk were to made a new vote, to have a large majority to rejoin
..... why would eu agree that in/out game? at the end it's bring mosre instability for all eu
and lets not mention the rpeferential deal uk had in eu, there is no way even if it were to hapen, to give that again
uk had such a sweet spot as a member of eu and they toss it away :/ kind of stupid but meh what's one is done and i can't see any reverse hapening or being acceptable
My sympathy and best wishes to you - greetings from New Jersey.
That sums you up , campaiged for a second vote! Ever heard of democracy?
@@happyguy5414 NF! How many seats did they win the brexit confirming Dec 2019 general election.
As a German, I remain sad about the UK leaving. As a freelancer, if my former London client wants me to work, his offices in Dublin or Berlin do the booking, billing, job lead. Effectively moving the business and tax from the UK to Ireland or Germany. .
However, MP Hilary Benn is right. It's really basic leadership: consult, conclude, communicate, carry-out, control, repeat. It's the only way improvements can made. And an honest assessment of the results of any decision forms the basis of it.
Ditto, however the remainers have accepted the result and got on with it, full well knowing what was going to unfold, whereas the brexiteers haven't stopped whining and bitching about brexit. Had the brexiteers lost by the same margin that they won by I don't know what would have happened. I think that brexit is better long term because it is an expensive case study about when happens when you let idiots run your country.
@@rwo5402 Hear, hear! People like Johnson and the buffoons of the ERG should never have come close to power, nevermind actually running the country (into the ground).
A perfect demonstration to refute the lie that all politicians are the same. If only the voice or reason could become the norm again, after the lunacy of Brexit.
Hi Terry Wright, we have always had sensible people using the voice of reason but they have always been overruled by populist delusions of 'freedom' and benefits that are always empty promises.
The main reason this has been so persistent is because to set about doing things properly involves careful considerate evaluation of the current conditions, sensible assessment of the potential for good future developments every part of which has to include all the practical measures required for success, all and every detail of the costs and benefits and an altogether much slower process than people want to take on, even then nobody is going to make any of the promises that cannot be fulfilled.
This does not have any real appeal to an ignorant electorate who just want jam today and lots of it, unable to resist the temptations that the exigent politicians are only too happy to offer. It is not just the mendacious politicians and the electorate that are wrong, the whole concept of democratic majority rule is flawed, any proposal that gains the most popular support is bound by definition to be weak ineffective and useless.
Cheers, Richard.
Why is it Lunacy to want to govern your own country. You cant remove them in power in Brussels whatever they did to the uk laws and juristiction. All the future leading growing econemies are not EU countries from India to Brazil to Singapore to china, we needed to leave the Eu to strike our own deals with these future growing econemies to look after our grandchildrens futures. Of cause there was going to be short term pain i predicted 10 years of pain but in the long run it be worth it. Btw the Eu countries are in dire states as usual Germany Greece Italy etc all in the same cost of living crisis as us.Now we can hold our goverments to account if they dont do us any good unlike when EU parliment ruled us it didnt matter who our goverment was as the commision was running us
@@richardharvey1732 So we do away with democracy. Then what, a dictatorship?
.. tell me me about the lunacy of brexit?.. please explain what you mean???
@@richardharvey1732 an ignorant electorate is the result of a deliberate policy to ensure widespread political illiteracy. Wrest control of the National Curriculum from politicians and allow professional educators to instil the necessary skills to equip our children to engage with the political process. In whose interest is it to have a politically inert population? - a question for the ages…
Never in the history of Britain have so many people been mislead by so few with so many lies😢😢😢
Yet the truth was out there. They chose to believe the Tory lies from a well documented liar. They are not as exceptional as they thought they where. All to protect their dirty money in their off-shore accounts. But why anyone would vote for the Tories after their political choice of putting us and this country through austerity and watching them destroy every service we need is beyond me. And even after all that there are those that will still tick a box to vote for these criminals. While they moan at the same time. Why are so many in this country willing to accept being lied to on a daily basis?
Churchill was full of shit which unfortunately led to deaths Brexit hit's the pocket both abhorrent.
Apart from covid
world wars
@@paulclark4147 At one time I would have dismissed your comment, Paul, not anymore though.
The thing that was frightening ( whether your for or against Brexit) is that they ( or i should say Cameron) gave the British public the vote on something that actually few of us truly understood (and that can be fatal! )The issues involved are massively complex and it seems to me that a lot of people just followed the line that we need 'Great Britain' to be 'great' again ( whatever that means!) And i was in utter disbelief when i heard some people saying " Dont like the French anyway" what! The complexities of breaking away from Europe were NEVER properly explained to us before the vote happened. Should you really give over the vote to the public on something thst is SO complicated and deeply political and so massively important? Its a difficult one because you dont not want to be democratic but on the other hand..... .( I voted
remain as uou can probably gather) and my simplistic argument for remaining is that anything, anything at all thst is divisive simply does not belong in our modern world. Nationhood is a rather false concept and divisiveness should surely have died off after the 2nd world war I.m.o.
You know better, eh? Why bother with democracy? Typical remoaner.
They were told falsehoods, lies, baffled with bullshit.. they then were asked to vote on those falsehoods, and we now see the result..
Simply look at who benefitted, follow the money and power back..
It did benefit about 10% of the British people.. an failed 90%. What took place was treasonous!
But we have to ask why did their plan succeed? simply because the people were fed up with multilayered government and it's costs , fed up with overreaching interference in centuries old traditions and social fabric..
No doubt the EU has become a glutton for power.. so perhaps the best thing for all Europeans including the UK, would have been a return to the OLD EEC or common market.
unfortunately, you just gave the argument with your own attitude why people voted for Brexit. It's not that much about the EU but a division of all western societies in conservatives/traditionalist/patriots and the leftliberals/cosmopolitans to put it simple. when people feel endangered by rapid changes like globalisation, digitalisation, individualism, diversity, migration etc and a supporting and dominating cultural elite of these it inflicts fears like social and cultural conflicts and alienation as well as an erosion of the feeling to belong together within society and growing competiton for material and immaterial interests. then rightwing populists have all advantages in their hands with their claims to set the clock back. leftliberals haven't understood that a country doesn't work on their attitudes of moral highground of just being tolerant, multicultural humans that prefer to see themselves as "world citizens" rather than as nationals because this and its political consequences is what actually frightens the other part of the population and mostly the underdogs who aren't priviledged at all although they get to hear it when they are "white". times of change need stabilizers of security and as long as the left tries to deconstruct all kind of norms, values and structures including "nationhood" that are part of people's identity (and therefore security) instead of signaling that they actually identify with the nation they live in and strengthening a feeling of belonging together the rightwing reaction will increase as we see it everywhere in the western world because they shout in a populist manner: "our nation's interests first".
likewise, Brexit is the result of leftliberals' failure to portray the EU as vital for "patriotic interests" and themselves as genuine patriots too fighting for "their nation"; instead they lamented far too often about the narrow-minded nationalist Brexiters from their cosmopolitan standpoint especially in the media. that made the decision easy for a lot of people.
I think the trick with democracy is that you've got to commit to it or not. The Swiss have multiple referendums each year, the people must be politically engaged, and it works for them. Having many referendums creates a culture of public participation leading to greater competence.
The fact that the British public are not often involved in politics leaves them unable to handle an important decision when it does come around.
@@robertsandiford6223 That's true
A lot more people need to hear this and face up to the reality of the Brexit nightmare
To all Brexitees!
Isn't it great to have cast off our shackles of EU membership.
We undestand how the Black Slaves felt in the Confererate States of America after the Yanks won the civil war, don't we?
To all Remainers!
Long may your Nightmare continue...
@@MySteaming Please mark this as sarcasm.
@@Jo-Jo8vs I'm trying to help you poor wretches. 😊
@@MySteaming You mean those misled by traitors like Nigel and voted for leave.
@@MySteamingyou’re a fool.
Why are the perpetrators of this fraud not being held to account? A shameful disgrace.
What fraud ? if there was any justice in the word Bush ,Blair and Gordon Brown would be breaking rocks inside the Broadmoor walls forever ! .British soldiers died in their iffy wars and Brown had his sticky fingers in everything ,from wrecking the pound in the economy collapse of 2008/9 and paying lots of money into his Bank to keep it afloat and save it from bankruptcy . It"s a shame & a disgrace a lot of people in this country believe the crap pumped - out daily especially on this Marxist site .And no I am no Tory boy just a disgruntled O.A.P. who had a Labour Party card for over 40 years and was a long time supporter till I saw the truth with the workers party . Will never vote again ,should be the cry ,if anything is going to change .
because they are _The Upper Class_
@@DSAK55 Brexit voters were predominantly the less educated and less well paid. They voted for it primarily because their wages were being depressed having to compete with cheap imported labour. But of course, the problem is that cheap labour benefits the economy.
Because they are still in charge xD
@@michaelkay1508 I'm a remainer, but I think this point is lost on many remainers - being in the EU there were some who benefited but there were some in the UK who were losing out, to cheaper labour for example. I guess I felt that for most people in the UK they were better off being in the EU, and that those who were losing out were in the minority, but that also there should have been measures implemented to address their concerns. Unfortunately now we are out there are a lot of us who will be worse off, and the country as a whole much poorer and that the causes of the vote to leave are still not being addressed because the conservative party are so inept (intentionally so I think)
Unfortunately gullible little Englanders have put us in a mess
Truth
Decades of neo liberalism caused it
And me.
His dad understood the EU is a Capitalist club. Free Movement was capitalism importing an OVER SUPPLY of labour in. Which is a race to the bottom particularly for the working class.
Corbyn should of accepted the result of the Referendum and set out an alternative direction. He was very anti EU all his political life. He became leader suddenly flipped flopped and crashed in the Old Labour Leave seats.
@Trixie K either an SNP supporter or a British person who isn't entitled and a believer in exceptionalism.
Why are the political liars not held accountable?
I remember President Obama being in the UK during the Brexit campaign. He advised the crowd in attendance for his speech against it because in his opinion it is always an advantage to deal with big economies
well you'll always be more willing/faster to get trade deal with a block of 500M potentiel custumer (and give that block better deal)
then you'd with a single country of what? 70M?
i mean that's kinda obvious far before the ref even occured, that's rly basic stuff there xD
lmao what? he threatened us to vote remain or else he will treat us badly,and we ignored him,now hes a nobody and it turned out hes a raging homosexual
the uk has the commonwealth and CANZUK we aint just an island alone,we also have like 14 overseas colonies and ties with aus canada,nz and america.@@namonamo494
And the Brexit dud heads cursed him. Look at it now
An absolute breath of fresh air!
Fresh air? 😱 People need more sewage 🎉
To get better benefits outside of the EU never did make sense. To do so undermines the point of the EU or any trade organisation
Precisely. Not two functioning braincells between them.
Stop it, my father in law, thought we could get baked beans from australia at 9p a tin even though its travelled over 3000miles away .
Sterling stuff. Thank you Mr Benn and Politics Joe.
In my 70 odd years on the Planet Brexit has done more harm to our country and standing in the world than anything I can remember, the fact that we did to ourselves makes it all the worse. Sometime long ago in Germany its people were convinced by its leaders that all its woes could be put down to the foreigner and how much better off they would be if they got rid of them, well we remember how that worked out.
you must thanks Brexit to clowns like Farage and Boris who lied to people blatantly. In my oppinion you should compare what this two did to UK with Guy Fawkes' actions did in the past . you should remember that voting day as a Uk shame based on lies.
Please remember, it was Ingerlund that did it. Not Scotland, not NI, nor Wales, but Ingerlund - they bought the lies from the buffoon, Farage, Lord Softy, etc.
The sooner the rest get independence from that shower of dummies, the better.
Of course global policy on Covid and the massive amounts of money being paid out on furlough has nothing to do with it.
Actually the Tories have done more harm, Brexit was Another of their tools to get away from regulation so they do what they want to support their power position , under Putin's influence!
Great speech by Benn. On Brexit he has been spot on from day 1.
No. His father was spot on.
@@archiebald4717 Not really. He had a lot of interesting things to say and he was worth listening to. However, he was essential to counterbalance Enoch Powell.
Actually, I think he is needed now to balance matters. You might be right in that!
Why has he never stood for leadership of the Labour Party? Beats me.
He's logical,honest&eloquent,I think that he would make the perfect leader.
Unfortunately the worst people are usually the most power hungry. He may be happy with what he has already achieved
Hes a backstabber . One of the many who helped consign us to being led by the most corrupt and shameful government in UK history . He should hold his head in shame .
@@ashtonoliver-scott Sadly true. Thanks to our so called "free press", for which read right wing propaganda sheets, only the unprincipled, incompetent and insensitive want the top jobs. And that does not only apply to politics.
Causes he's a horrible creep who has done nothing for Leeds.
As an Australian living in Australia, I can absolutely confirm the benefits of brexit in my country.
Thanks for your honesty and they are many many commonwealth countries who at Last feel the U.K. has showed them some loyalty since the betrayal back in 1973 and 1975 in joining the European Common Market that evolved into the monstrous EU. 🎋
@@ggaz4837 You're completely deluded.
There are no benefits to Brexit in Australia and it's none of your business anyway.
Yeah, pommes can take that yellow tail and mutton off our hands, good riddance.
@@pulchralutetia Of course there are, an FTA for starters, not to mention AUKUS.
Mr Benn is one of the brainiest and finest speakers in the House of Commons. Pure and simple common sense delivered with Swiss precision. 😍👏🏻
This is the best ever analysis of Brexit impact there has ever been. Its sound like a great speech to lead us into a campaign to rejoin the single market or a bespoke customs union. Everyone in the UK should be made to watch this.Please spread this on all platforms. Great video
UK would have to be in the EU to join Single market & customs union, no cherry picking.
Not a hope in hell. The EU doesn't want the UK back and signing the CPPPP or whatever the hell it's called deal has locked the UK out. I personally want to see the UK sink to oblivion as an example of national stupidity and suicide. Pour encourager les autres, in reverse.
@@annabell5646 Not true. A negotiated single market application can be made without eu membership, but the price of Single market entry would be that the UK restores freedom of movement for eu citizens.But we.could also set limits on numbers within that .this will happen within 10 years
Nothing's going to happen and it would probably take another 10 years for anybody to argue for join the EU again. Labour and conservative wouldn't do it and liberal democrats nobody wants to listen to them.
@@ajsctech8249 I hope not.
Hilary Benn is a man with integrity, as was his father in my opinion.
bollocks. A red Tory who supported Blair, stabbed Corbyn in the back and strongly supports Starmer. Anti trade unionist, pro deregulation, pro privatisation. Stands for everything his father stood against.
His father would be turning in his grave, he wanted to leave the EU.
A man of integrity, ????
FFS.
There is absolutely no comparison between them .His father believed the exact opposite to him Clive.Personally i despised his extreme left politics .As for Hilary even though i have no time for almost all on the left he and a few more Labour Mps have made some good points over the years that i have agreed with and he is as honest as they come.His hatred of the far left also does him credit too.
True but his father was on the 'wrong' side. Nevertheless, I always respected him.
I’m so sorry I voted leave 😢 it’s time now we realised that it’s not working and started talking with the EU I drive a lorry to Ireland 🇮🇪 and it’s a pain now with paper work 📑 that we didn’t have before. I’ve seen the amount of money that’s been spent at the ports. We’ve now sold our home in Spain 🇪🇸 and my daughter can’t work their anymore 😩
Takes significant strength of character to admit that you’re wrong on stuff like this. Wish more people were as brave as you.
“But comrades, it was not applied with enough vigour and purity!” 😂
A quote from just about every Brexiteer. It usually goes alongside ''You lost!!! Get over it!!!''
Hilary Benn always good value to give a straightforward honest and reasoned analysis of an issue. We don't see or hear him enough in the media - I wonder why?!
Because - like his father - he's widely regarded as a Nut Job ?
As proved by his rant here ?
Because he is totally dishonrst
@@another1498 And good morning to you, Russian troll.
He takes after his father.
Cos he talks a load of remoaning trash
What a wonderful speech, Mr. Benn.
Lol
Well, he didn't say anything that isn't obvious to anyone with half a brain!?! And he barely scratched the surface of the damage done to UK Plc.
er....didn't he predict mass unemployment after Brexit ??
And troops on streets of Northern Ireland ? And collapse of the City of London ?? Like other Remainers he seems to have a poor memory ??
@@2msvalkyrie529 Er, if he did (I don't know) .. he was right!!!??!!
- "troops ..[in NI]" - not exactly, but worsening violence,
- "collapse".. CoL - it's happening; a slow collapse: Paris overtook us, an utterly unnecessary stupidity / own goal.
- "mass unemployment" - not exactly; so far we have (recent) record employment in UK; but career prospects over the whole of the UK are miserable compared to what they would have been in the EU.
Moral: Mr. Benn has waxed hyperbolic in his previous warnings. But the gist of his predictions have come true. Oh, and just a detail.. Here in this prez, he is making predictions about the past. Guess what: he is 100% right.
His Father must be turning in his grave at this Treason
Brexit is a wonderful soothing tonic! It raises my morale, bolsters my confidence in my own grasp of current affairs, and confirms my sanity - simply because it is going exactly as predicted.
Great comment I got a good laugh
Love the sarcasm
But it's also the truth sadly
nah covid fucked things up and leftoid sabatours who think if they keep dragging their heels and moaning and doing everything to sabotage it we wil magically vote to re enter the eu,we wont
Such depressing damage done by some very missguided people that can't be reversed for deacades, soul destroying :(
But the tories made the situation worse by delivering a hard brexit!
Brexit only meant to stop being a MEMBER of the EU. This was clearly stated on the ballot paper.
During negotiations, a Norway style deal was proposed to Theresa May, but she rejected it. She claims it is against the "will" of the British people. Norway is NOT a member of the EU. Instead, Norway is part of the EFTA and EEA.
If she had accepted this offer, the UK would not be in the situation it is in now at all. Not sure how she arrived at the conclusion that it is against the will of the British people. I don't recall a referendum on EEA/EFTA membership, do you?
Unfortunately, the tories envisioned Brexit to mean diverging as far away from the EU as possible. This was never the case. Brexit was just about EU MEMBERSHIP. The tories took the inconclusive results of a vote and proceeded to wreck our economy and standards of living.
Currently, polls suggest that public pressure for closer EU alignment is growing. Even leave voters are regretting their decision.
I think at some point the UK will have a closer relationship with the EU, once trust has been restored. The actions of the corrupt tories really damaged the trust between UK and the EU. I only hope that the EU realises that the tories actions is not representative of the entire UK. The tories are corrupt and self absorbed. It'll take time to undo their damage.
I was listening to Mr. Benn speech , from Malaysia, and was really impressed with the truths and the failure , and the adverse impacts of BREXIT .
Just another lefty with opinions on Brexit ,it"s right that everyone should have a opinion on any subject ,as long as they state that"s what it is and not pass it off as the truth or undeniable facts . These people like others in the community may miss their "freedom of movement " and other little golden perks that the rich & middle classes have enjoyed from being in the club . But people like me and my family who don"t go on holidays in Europe or haven"t got a business and have never been a regular flyer ,have seen very little change in our lot - Brexit or no Brexit and I suppose the voters in the North who were the much mentioned "Red Wall" group were much like us , we ain"t got a lot BUT at least we don"t feel bad about our money being paid into the E.U. to support poor Europeans who on paper are much poorer than us " .
@@yorkiegilly4355 Well, writing from inside the EU, I'm so sorry Brexit happened, and you've all been purposefully and shamelessly misinformed. It is a known fact that the UK took from the union much more than it gave. We all supported each other, and even if things weren't always perfect (I'm in Italy, we've got our own valid complaints over what goes on in Bruxelles), this union was and still is a work in progress. Not having a voice at the table will not benefit the UK. And honestly I think we share so many fundamental values and so much history and culture, it just made sense that we were also trying to write a shared future together. (And if I may add some personal perspective: I would've loved to come and study in the UK, and right now it's become ridiculously expensive, and buried in red tape). So yeah, I hope things can get better. And that you can get reunited to Europe, in some way or another.
@@yorkiegilly4355 I'm so sorry for you that you don't understand economics. But maybe that's the reason why you can't afford a vacation in Spain or other lovely places in Europe.
@@yorkiegilly4355"much poorer", you must be from the Little England that needs to choose between heating or eating, or the increasing British population that is known as the homeless working class....I take you were either kidding yourself or just suffered an overdose of ignorance- or both!
In the agricultural areas of Britain ignorant racist xenophobic clod hopping peasants voted heavily for Brexit. The great and good particularly the liberal media deplored this backward step there were two lines in the Guardian which might explain why - the agricultural combines went to Eastern Europe and recruited workers who would do the job for 60% less.
There was a functioning labour market in these areas and shortfalls at harvest time were met by the seasonal agricultural workers scheme SAWS for short. They could bring in as much labour as they needed on temporary contracts. It ended when cheap freely available labour from the EU made it obsolete. So why are they in favour of EU workers and screaming they cannot manage without them?
Under SAWS they had to provide accommodation and providing a range of services and if any needed medical attention it's a fair guess as temporary residents their employers would have to pay for. The cost of all this must've taken a worthwhile slice of their profits.
Bring in workers from the EU? Big saving in paperwork and administration Now the UK then must find them accommodation and everything else. Best of all they can bring in their families who get access to better education and medical services for nothing.
So you can see why the agricultural combines employing EU seasonal workers in the 100’s, they must be saving a fortune. Their overheads are transferred to the taxpayer and a worker who brings in his family will have at least three dependants. So, we get one cheap worker and must provide the full range of services for at least four people, don't think xenophobia think economic stupidity.
I have no reason to say anything negative about the east Europeans imported but if you were a farm worker and found your pay cut by more than half and all the services overloaded how would you have voted in their position?
@@Jo-Jo8vs
In my view it is fantastic that a Labour MP has told the truth about the extremely negative consequences of Brexit. Hopefully Kier Starmer [now a brexiteer] does not suspend Hilary Benn from the Labour party for telling the truth about the toxic Brexit that the UK has ended up with!!
I don’t believe he is actually a brexiter, yes that is how he may come across as that’s the best image to show tactically to win the election. If he’s in parliament saying “we want another referendum” your going to annoy a lot of brexiters that may actually have decided to vote Labour this time. Unfortunately to win an election sometimes you have to say what will piss the least people off
@@ashtonoliver-scott and bc he doesn't mention brexit KS is not giving any ammunition for the Tories to take potshots. It began with Boris who desperately needed Starmer to talk about Brexit so he could hide his incompetence and awfulness behind his brexit rants. When your enemy wants you to do something, don't. And that is why he didn't and still doesn't and that makes the Tories mad, bc they got nothing on him. The trick is to recognize when to start talking about it and that is what the public will decide, when they are ready to reengage with the EU idea
@@ashtonoliver-scott Agree, sorry about him, I don’t think he gets out from Memphis much these days
Starmer and Labour are not Brexiters!
What they do say is,”We have to make Brexit work for the UK, because the UK are not going to be able to rejoin the UK for a few years.
The EU will not start negotiations until the Brexiters have become a spent force, to the point where, if there is a government change any negotiations that are taking place will not be thrown away, so in other words the Tories accept the UK people want to rejoin the EU.
In fact I do believe Starmer and Labour have already been talking to EU Leaders for a while now, in preparedness for the HOPEFULLY inevitable change of government.
What is expected to be seen, is Starmer will realign itself with the EU again, which will make it easier for when any real negotiations will take place.
As for now Starmer and Labour have to play the Brexit game very close to their chest, because this country and it’s people will not survive another round of Tory lies, and pilfering of UK assets, so for now Starmer and Labour’s policy on Brexit has to be, “Let’s make the Brexit shit show work for the UK as much as possible.”
@@wazz1154 agreed
Pure, raw, common sense!
I don't blame people for voting leave. They were lied to. What disturbs me is that there is no sign of holding the liars accountable. Politicians lying is unacceptable. Mistakes are inevitable, lies are unforgivable.
We gave away incredible power and influence in the world by leaving, especially with our veto power. We will never get that back. Sad times indeed.
The decision to leave was not based on facts, but feelings. 'we used to be an empire, don't you know', 'we shouldn't be bossed around by the continentals' etc. Politicians played the game, but it is a failing of the nation to be so easily moved to do something so self-damaging.
They are not lied to when they want to believe the lies that are being said.
Actually,putting the blame of Brexit just on politicians is perpetuating the same fiction that allowed it to happen. This Leave EU stance has been 30 years in the making with notable help of UK tabloids and editorialists. Just to sell paper. And in response, these were never called out on their lies either by the people they sell to or the people they talk to. This dangerous trend is not specific to the UK, it's something every western democracy has to struggle against but the unique position of the media should make them accountable for what they print or broadcast. Let it persist long enough without overview and you get that pervasive confusion of the minds that Murdoch or the Koch brothers intended. Regulation allowing financial independance of the press or accountability are the key. The situation is not different between either sides of the pond, whether their demographic targets are called Brexiters or Deplorables.
@@StillStalking So you like being bossed around by the continentals do you?
@@llewev So now you are still bossed around by the continentals (if you want to do business with them) and have no input into those rules, you can't even find workers to harvest your crops, your fishermen have no markets for their catch, and the UK will have to kowtow to every other nation that will set the standards that you must follow to do business. By the way have you ever discovered what happened to the £350m per week that was going to go to the NHS? I would imagine that a decade down the road there will be no UK; Scotland and Wales will opt for independence and return to the EU and Ireland reunification will end the Northern Ireland issue.
Surely this is a platform for -
1 Action against those who maliciously, deliberately and wilfully misled the British public.
2 An application to rejoin the EU
Agreed. A public enquiry like the Covid fiasco is needed to hold those "responsible" Brexiteer politicians to explain their lies of "sunny uplands" ahead.
No it is just deserts for politicians who had no right to take us into the EU in 92 without a public vote in the first place.
@@garrywynne1218 72, Heath took us in, and Wilson arranged a referendum in 1975 as many on the left thought Heath had not consulted the public. Rumour is that Heath received the brown envelope with £39,000 inside.
What's gone is gone.
@@garrywynne1218 lack of honesty on both sides. I was at school in ‘92 so non partisan but the manner in which the sun newspaper covered the mastricht treaty even to a kid like me was infantile
Only me, little frenchie, used to buy soaping supplies in the UK. Did it once again after the Brexit, but never again. Too expensive now, too long…a mess. What a pity. And that s only me…
Good to hear that in full.
It must be so embarrassing to have voted for Brexit. Even more embarrassing to still claim it is a good idea.
Depends on who you are. If you're a coward, lazy and worthless it was a bad idea. But if you're courageous, resourceful and have some self worth it matters little.
@@kynchan3332 spoken like someone with no clue. Luckily for your your life is insignificant enough not to be obviously affected, with the wider issues beyond your understanding
@@funoff3207 I'm rich with or without the EU. I never needed to suck on the EU teat.
I'm rich because I have the balls to be a doer. Who castrated you?
Proud to have voted for Brexit and remain proud.
@@andrewmurray3139 oh no, he doesn't get that he is just proclaiming to the world, "I am a dumbass."
You must have the IQ where you drool and nod at anything Boris and the Tories sell to you. Impressionable or stupid yet proud. Strange.
Thank you,Politics Joe for showing that contribution to the debate by Hilary Benn.
Very well thought out presentation by him, unlike the leavers, DON'T TALK ABOUT BREXIT, IT'S OVER.
So much sensible commentary. Hopefully people will see the podcast.
Fundamental point - if you are not a member of the club, you cannot get the benefits of being in the club!
Or said otherwise, if you're not seated at the table, you're on the menu.
It’s been a disaster, and very soon likely to be a catastrophe.
Hyperventilating? A paper bag held lightly over the nose and mouth should help the light-headedness.
A man that speaks my language.
Not a patch on his Dad who worked tirelessly for the workers of Britain and nearly saved the original Triumph motorcycle factory at Meridan ,but was stiffled time & time again by the disastrous actions of the Unions .
Feel genuinely sorry as an Irishman for the British people under 40. They've done nothing wrong. Didn't vote in majority for Brexit but will have to deal with its consequences long after the older conservatives are gone.
If more of the younger people would have executed their right to vote, it would have ended in a remain vote... So yes, it's partially their fault by not voting.
Just shows how out of touch the politicians are with the British people.
What an orator!
And every single utterance completely true.
He's a liar and you are a fool.
March 2020 - Dec 2021 the UK was in lockdown. He's trying to blame lockdown on brexit.
And you're the dimwit he's treating like a fool.
Stephen Livesey....old school.
How politicians used to be like.
Now they are more interested in slagging each other off...not rationally discussing politics!!
Just like his father Tony Benn. Excellent politician and human being.
@@barbra7562 he's a lying weasel.
Not even a shadow of his father.
I agree with you all
It’s a pleasure to listen to Mr Benn. And despite being a British citizen I’m NOT necessarily a fan of British accents. 👏 😊 👍
Very well put indeed!
Brexit was always a "solution" to a stated problem that doesnt exist. The 18th century idea of sovereignty no longer exists, in many ways not even for the USA, countries are more reliant on each other for goods, labour, services, capital, the supply chain web of multi national coporations is a major reason. The UK will still have follow many EU rules to trade goods as it is one of the largest markets in the world.
The nation state is the biggest pushback against international finance there is. That's why the big money, big banks and The City of London backed Remain. Old Labour voted Leave.
Exactly
You can't eat Sovereignty, neither can you bank it.
The objective of brexit wasn't a "solution" for any of the muppets who participated in it. It was the solution to a Russian question, "how can we destabilise Europe and at the same time fragment and weaken the UK?" To which question brexit was a fantastic solution. The whole national "debate" that occured in this country in this context is utterly farcical. It's ludicrous. The whole exercise was self evidently pointless. Unless you sit in the Kremlin, then it served its purpose in spades.
Rule taker now not a rule maker
But, but if we all close our eyes and really wish that there were no major economic consequences of leaving the biggest free market in the world located on our very doorstep, then everything will be fine.
Rather like pretending they can click their heels together an relocate the UK to the mid Pacific!
the major economic problems are a result of several generations of neoliberal economics which have gutted British institutions and industry of wealth and led to the highest foreign control of industry in British history. Blaming Brexit is just a distraction from centrists who don’t want to own up to the damage their own policies have caused.
@@martincopeland8153 Jawolh Boris Mein Fuehrer, that's all they want to say, and it will work like magic (NOT)
What about the countries that have never been members have they died?
@@kynchan3332 Wich island nations on the European continent are they?
so well put.
I don't even live in the UK, but I watch this channel as it highlights the thinking and methods that people in power ( political, journalistic, financial ) use to make events suit themselves.
Bravo 👏🏾 👏🏾
Thanks, really needs to be told, over and over again.....
What would be really useful to complete the picture would be an equivalent analysis of Brexit from the EU point of view. As I understand it, EU imports from the UK have been partly replaced with increased intra-EU trade, EU exports to the UK have increased, business investment has been switched from the UK to the EU, some manufacturing and financial services have moved from the UK to the EU, there are more workers from eastern Europe working in Germany, France, Holland, etc rather than the UK. Brussels has lost the UK membership contributions, but it's costs have reduced and EU politics are smoother without the UK and Farage. The EU has gained from Brexit - why would they want us back?
@jim, bypassing the UK, it has become natural for Europeans so as not to disturb the UK bureaucrats who are always quick to tax everything!
Hilary Benn the best MP in parliament. Should be leader of Labour!!!!!!!
Good on Hilary, it should have been said years ago though I doubt that there were ears to hear it back then, at least open ones. 👏
Like deployed 👍
I should send my invoices to the government and get them to paid the extra fees i had to pay.
Well, may it will work out by the end.
He's one of very few decent men in politics
@woodsboy me definitely
His father was a legend, his father had Corbyns politics, and would have had his back instead of stabbing him in it.
He backed the Iraq bloodbath. His dad was the leading opponent of coming out of the EU.
@Evola’s Sunglasses no he didn't, the exact opposite actually
Accurate and depressing in equal measure.
👍👍👍thank you thank you❤❤❤
The most noteworthy point he made here is the importance of rebuilding the relationship with the EU, since this is not just all about evaluating the mistake and admitting it was a bad idea if Britain wants to rejoin, they will also need to build trust and show that you want to be a real part of the EU if the other members are to approve a potential membership. One of the reasons why the other members did almost nothing to make Britain stay in the union was because the UK was a difficult member back then and there are not many people who wants to have that back in the parliament. Plus, some countries did benefit from Brexit when a lot of businesses and capital moved to mainly France/Belgium/Netherlands/Germany, and although its unlikely that those businesses will move back to the UK, there is not much incentive to approve a membership if the competition for future investments will increase.
The British public and leadership are going to have to get used to the effect of Brexit for quite a while longer, you have your own issues to sort out and you are not going to get much help to rejoin the EU in the near future even though there are calls for it to happen now.
It was sold on LIES - Those LIARS should face a judge and jury!
I agree with you on that !
Agreed - but not only - it was a big feat from the Murdoch press and many voters knew, the chose to believe the lies.
Thankfully we weren't took in by project fear , should they go on trial for lying. Just nugget off you whining pathetic remoaner rejoiners.
Who is to blame when MPs believe a known liar like de Pfeffel Johnson or an obvious fraudster like Farage.
Lies... are legal
I admire his father so much & glad to see that his Son is living up to the nature of a intelligent debate
It's ironic that his father was part of the Labour anti-Europe movement.
Star dust....yes intelligent debate...not heard much of that with this Govt!
@@0atheist Indeed, AW Benn was an intellectual who was just wrong, George Galloway is probably an better mirror for Farage, a self promoting conman.
UK, take a bow!!
What did you think would happen!!
Perfect analysis Mr Benn.
He's wrong. The referendum was NOT democratic. 18+ million UK residents were not allowed a vote, and of those who were, they were only given a 16 hour window to do so, meaning millions didn't have time on the day to use their democratic right, due to unexpected to work/care commitments. Democracy is supposed to mean that EVERY member of the society gets one vote each, which was absolutely not the case in the 2016 referendum.
The legislation for the referendum clearly stated that there was no requirement for the government to act on any result, so they had no absolutely obligation to do so, especially with such an inconclusive result. Only a government of utter idiots would proceed with something that they were against, that less than 27% of the population actually voted for (which was indeed who we had in charge at the time).
Let's not let Parliament as a whole and Theresa May off the hook. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50 with no plan and Parliament waved it through! In addition, May took a narrow win for Leave (and none at all in Scotland or Northern Ireland) as a margin for a hard Brexit as she couldn't keep Tory extremists in check.
Could vote by mail
@@marcinski5201 you could only do that if you knew weeks in advance that you would need or want to vote that way. That's no use if your boss decided on the day that you need to work early or late, or that you needed to travel far away from home for work that day, or if you or someone you are responsible for (ex. your kid or your elderly parent) is ill etc.
It's the 21st century. Our undemocratic voting system is not fit for purpose.
Well said. The government was not legally obliged to act on the result. The conservatives just had to jump at the opportunity (Theresa May) and deliver a hard Brexit and put the UK in a dire predicament.
He's absolutely right 👍🏻
Brilliant!!!
It is all perfectly clear if you understand narcissism...Thank you...
Good to hear a politician speaking the truth for a change. Labour gets my vote in future.
Delusional fool
you believe a Politician ?
Why oh why did Labour change their anti-Brexit position ? They lost my vote and I told my constituency MP so on the phone when he rang to see if I would support him again at the 2019 General Election. He was re-elected as it happened and I believe he was not in favour of Brexit, but the Corbyn-run Labour Party got hammered as we all know. They are flogging a dead horse if they think they can make Brexit work
there was a referendum, your side lost, move on.
@@afgor1088the country lost, you included
@@framazz7575 nope. i had a bet on for leave to win and my wage has gone up in real terms now i'm not competing with 500 million other workers.
@@afgor1088 you're hilarious
@@afgor1088 No chance, because of idiots voting to trash the country and make most us poorer in every way ---No chance !!
Spot on.
Be careful what you wish for - you might get it--- thanks Boris
On behalf of Irish citizens, I would like to thank you for all the new jobs you voted for🎉.
Marie Antoinette was alleged to have said "let them eat cake". The contemporary equivalent would perhaps be "let them eat sovereignty".
Thank you for the true words!
Thank you.
my arse will be too numb from the battering its taken from brexit to feel the hard honest truth that it was shit
On the upside, the EU can now move on from the British obstructionists and integrate even better. Brexit was a godsend for the EU.
The UK still continues to try to undermine the EU though. Remember when Johnson was touring Eastern Europe and trying to create agreements and groups? Those people will never stop and the EU needs urgently to strengthen its cohesion. Unfortunately, western countries are drunk on wanting to watch the easterners from above while the easterners want to have power without the filling it requires, notherners think themselves better than southerners and southerners just don't care enough.. Every country or union has its problems so hopefully, especially now with the threat from the crazy ones in Moscow, Europeans understand how much closer they are than they think and how much they need each other to keep the prosperity and peace they have.
Enjoy the Paris Berlin axis.
@@robertthomson4978 Enjoy your country crumbling to dust.
Yes i suspect this is true, however the EU is on shaky grounds over its continued ignorance of immigration issues. Ultimately if they had been less proud perhaps Brexit would have been avoided. Hopefully it’s LFE that we can all apply during Brexit reversal. Always been a believer we’re stronger together, even despite Germany abusing the UK’s fiscal contributions to the EU, not to mention protectionist policies on french agriculture & German manufacturing at Britains expense.
Easy to gloat over our exit , as has been said the UK was a pain in the butt to many of the EU states , most , but not all were glad to see us go , it has been said that it is better to iron out disagreement within an organisation than without that in most cases is true , however several fiscal and trade issues rolled out in the EUs favour it the detriment of the UK . To those wanting to rejoin , lots of luck, we would ,if indeed our application was accepted , be admitted on extremely unadventageous terms , I voted to enter the EU and indeed to remain but we are out and as such must make the very best of it , on a nationalistic note , we are and in the past been an extremely resourceful nation and have overcome many obstacles most have been more challenging than this scenario I hope that things are not as black as some folk think and indeed wish , we must , is seems , stop whingeing and get on with it , that attitude will I am sure not find favour with the doommongers but so be it .
No sovereignty gain. Massive losses!
HONESTY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT RUNS THROUGH THE TORY PARTY!!!
Haven’t they made truth illegal 😂😂😂
@Ritte13
TORY SLEAZE, SLANDER, DODGY DEALS, DODGY LOANS, DODGY DONATIONS, DODGY APPOINTMENTS, DODGY PEERAGES, LUCRATIVE CONTRACTS FOR FAT CAT FRIENDS, LUCRATIVE LOANS FOR FAT CAT FRIENDS, PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, PATHOLOGICAL BULLIES, PATHOLOGICAL RACIST, PATHOLOGICAL LAW BREAKERS!!!!
THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE WHO VOTE TORY WHICH ARE FAT CAT TAX DODGERS OR THICKO'S!!!!!!!!!
VictorCharlesEvans....100%.
Worst bunch possibly in history.
Hardly anyone of good calibre in it!
@@janetmalcolm6191
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON JANET!!
I HOPE YOU HAVE A LOVELY WEEKEND!!!
I like him, without degradation, he criticized the Tories and got his point across, as looking at the UK as a whole (as I did when I served) Brexit, regardless of which side you are on, has hurt the working people and the economy on which the government stands. It will take time and there are a lot of wounds to heal on both sides, but in that case we are responsible for most of them, WE voted for Brexit, WE kept this shambles of a government in power, now WE have to suffer as a result. WE know who is to blame and why they did it, now WE have to make sure they are never in that position of power AGAIN.
It's not about who s in the lead It's about commerce
The sad thing is that few of his points were surprising to anyone who'd been paying attention pre-brexit.
I wish we could hear Hilary Benn speak more often. Like his father, he has a wonderful mind and complete integrity.
Eh?
Then you should listen to his father Tony warning about the perils of entering the EEC in the 1970's.
@@catinthehat906 you can be wrong. You know. Like the brexiter voting for brexit
@@ninodino444 The EU was OK until the Maastricht Treaty essentially laid the foundations for a European superstate, a far cry from the free trade cooperative organisation that the UK joined in 1973.
@@catinthehat906 well that is your opinion. I want that superstate
Very good and rational analysis, which only the most lunatic brexiters would be able to disagree with.
But, they will.
Owen the village idiot
With lies and distractions
Brexit was never about logic unfortunately
Brexit was about tax and making us poorer
Me Benn spoke with common sense and if only more people had spoken in 2016 / 2019 we might not be in this mess now.
Rejoin at earliest viable opportunity has to be the goal of this country no matter what the opposition parties say publicly.
never forget one thing
why and would eu agree? one thing for sure uk had special deal as a eu member, if uk was ever to come back it would be with the same standart/rules as everyone else
good luck explaining to people "hey you remember the eu we left? we'll join again but with a less good deal as before since you know .... we had some advantage back then and we lost them when we left"
They didn't listen back then. It was all scaremongering. Now it's in front of their eyes, but it's too late.
As a fench citizen, I was really shocked by the arguments used by the brexit supporters, about money it costed to be in EU (almost always with false costs dispaled, they recognized after they won that they lied about numbers) or arguments which flattered national pride like "We are a great nation" (the same we hear now in russian propaganda). I knew that brexit was an error and may be was the expression of a lot of people who wrere left aside by main stream political decisions in the previous decades. We have the same problem in France. The weak, the poor, the humble are not always heard and are esay preys for nationalists supporters. Economic, social, political and immigration issues have not been solved by Brexit, contrary to what was promised by brexit supporters.
Those problems must be taken from the root : stop looking only to our own sake, but looking for for solutions which are satisfying for everybody (in our country and the others). Thinking first about people suffreing from precariouness, seeking justice at every level, social, economic, financial, etc.
I have no political ideology, but for me political decisions often lack a good deal of common sense.
And as we see in brexit, the consequences can be serious.
Very well said! 👍 Greetings from Germany
Sir Ivan Rogers pointed out the economics - no one knew better than him or, had more experience. However, not one word was said about the ‘balance of power’ at the time - the advantages of belonging to a Union at a time of Trump, Putin and Xi ! We only have to look around now! While we were a member, on very favourable terms, the US valued us as a portal into Europe - no longer - our status has been diminished, globally. Sir Ivan Rogers also addressed the sovereignty argument by saying ’to not think that all the other countries in the EU are not concerned about sovereignty but, that they feel theirs enhanced by being part of a union.
Benn is saying it as it is. We were fooled.
Leaving was never the problem, the problem was the shambles that ensued.
And thats down to the Tories, a certain extent the EU with their vindictive streak wanting to punish us, and the majority of the current Neoliberal labour regime who tried to overturn a democratic mandate and created obstacles at every turn and every stage of the process.
@BobFarley73 we still could have left (as in stop being a MEMBER of the EU), but remained part of the EFTA and EEA. This was offered in negotiations but the corrupt tories rejected it.
You're right, leaving the EU wasn't that catastrophic. The tories made it catastrophic. The Norway style deal would still have meant brexit was delivered because the UK would terminate its EU MEMBERSHIP.
They should hand out Dunce hats for everyone who voted for Brexit.
YES, OF COURSE.
ABSOLUTEMENT.
Honest ,straightfoward and rational politician .Complete commonsense .
Denial
@@modsmayday1 Denial of what? He explicitly said that we should not deny the fact of leaving but be honest about the consequences - because if we aren’t honest, we can’t deal with them. What’s “denial” about that?
@@davidpaterson2309 His being honest was trying to hold up a democratically elected vote by trying to block parliament. Your memory fails you.
@@modsmayday1 Here’s the difference - you are trying to re fight an old battle, and pick at scabs to prevent them from healing. He is admitting defeat but trying to find a way forward - which requires admitting that we are currently in deep shit, at least partly because of the democratic decision. Democratic decisions do not magically produce positive economic results merely because they are democratic - lots of people voting for an idea doesn’t make it a good idea. So we have a find a way of making it work - would you rather not do that?
When I was a lecturer in Economics, one of my colleagues taught a course entitled Economics of Integration. His main empirical example was the EU. The opposite to integration is of course disintegration.
Moving power away from the people has disintegrated Democracy.
>
Oh, I like that. I like that a lot.
Disgusting how many of these people are on their phones and pads.