Reliable cars don't nickel and dime - everything else in addition to the drivetrain should last a reasonable amount of time...which to me is at least approximately 100k miles. I drive about 30k miles per year for work on average. All of these cars got the same amount/type of use, and I maintain my vehicle. I've had several "reliable" cars since I started driving 15 years ago. 85 Town Car, 93 Camry, 08 Sienna, 95 T100, 04 Grand Marquis, and Two 2011 CVPIs. The town car I bought at 77k and I got rid of it at 130k. No drivetrain problems but that car nickel and dimed the shit out of me. Yes it always started. But NOT reliable. 93 Camry was fine but eventually the small issues piled up, and we sold it without fixing anything. It did have the original engine replaced before we bought it 08 Toyota sienna was a fucking BEAST. We took it from (NEW) 0 to 265,000 miles. There were some expensive repairs however they were AFTER 100k miles and NOT often. We finally got rid of it when the transmission went. Amazing car. TRUE RELIABILITY. Ditto the Toyota T100. Bought it was 190k and it rusted out at 265k. Both of these were amazing. 2004 Grand Marquis was also truly reliable BUT I bought it from an old man at 65k miles and sold it at 95k. I did SLAM those miles on in 18 months and the most expensive repair, and only major repair, was fuel pump, but I'm active in the panther community and these guys are known tanks. My two crown vics...2011s both of them...fucking money pits. Both police cars. One from a rural department and the other from a local department. Both were/are a nightmare. I still have my second one and the transmission just went out at 130k. Transmission is a known issue for these. That's my two cents. I agree with you that reliability is a WHOLE-CAR concept. With the amount of experience I had with the 2008 sienna...that is my opinion...it is/was one of best and truly most reliable vehicles available. I bought a 2015 sienna last January with 80k miles. It's sitting at 108k right now. It maybe needs shocks but has had no major issues, and I don't expect it to.
Thank you for sharing. Nickel and dime was the phrase I was looking for! Every panther I have ever owned nickel and dimed me to death, regardless of mileage or condition. So technically speaking, are they really reliable? I never really owned a car, new or used, that didn't need something at some point. I imagine when new (panther or LS400) one could get away with doing nothing up to 100k miles then dumping the car. This was the case with my LS400. Never knew about the Sienna, that will probably be my next ride 😄
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars Well both my CVPIs had well under 100k (66k and 84k) when purchased, nickel and dimed all the way up to, and beyond, 100k. They're not really reliable as a rule. Maybe the police abuse? My Grand Marquis was amazing. Toyota sienna van, bullet proof. Would trust my life on those cars.
@TheJimmyBuffalo I imagine that police abuse contributes significantly to the reliability factor. Another thing are the owners themselves, some people just ignore any signs that a car needs repairs, some have to fix every little thing.
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars I don't necessarily want to fault the CVPIs totally...and maybe I was a little unfair...I maintain my cars but I am very hard on my CVPI. I drive it super hard. A lot of guys baby them.
@TheJimmyBuffalo They were designed to take abuse but they can only take so much I guess. I never had a CVPI without issues, even the administrative units. Maybe Ford built the fleet cars with crappier parts, like Walmart has a cheaper brand of Michelins.
Talking about a reliable car, I just purchased a 1987 crown Vic LX last summer from the original owner the car only had 32,000 original miles. The crown Vic has never seen a winter or salt, I drive the crown Vic to work everyday, the crown Vic still runs and drives like a new car. The factory AC still blows cold with the original compressor, everything is still original under the hood, except for new brake pads and shoes and new wheel cylinders. This LX model also has factory dual exhaust and a 3.55 posi rear end for towing, this crown Vic is definitely like a unicorn. This is definitely a fine example of a true survivor, I really do believe if I kept this car another 10 or 15 or 20 years it's still will be around. It's funny I always have people tell me that it's a nice restoration and I tell them that the car is original, you should see the look on their face when I tell them that. What's really amazing is there is no leaks underneath this car everything is bone-dry which is very rare for a car that's been sitting and only driven a few hundred miles a year I find that amazing. To tell you the truth they don't make cars like this anymore, cars today will never last like this one!! 🇺🇲🏁🏁😎🏁🏁🇺🇲
I have a 1997 Toyota Celsior which is the JDM LS400. The worst thing I had happen was the alternator go out but that was the original one because the mileage was so low when I got the car. I replaced the alternator and serpentine belt. Then replaced the timing belt and water pump as well as the spark plugs. After that, I drove from New Mexico to Massachusetts. The car has been pretty solid.
@@Metalface1999 Yeah same with body pieces. I had to replace my trunk lid after someone hit me. That's from a 1998 LS400 as well although the wiring is a bit different so be sure to swap over your Celsior wires. Your tail lights are the same and will bolt right in though.
any word on the long term reliability ? How does it deal with rust ( if you are in that geographical zone ) ? Does it give you electrical gremlins ? Thanks!
In my opinion it's a the total package which include The Powertrain, easy to fix and parts are available. the least features the car has the least things that it will need maintenance that what my father used to tell me. I gotta say that Crown Vic, Camry, Accord, Land Cruiser and Hilux are the most reliable cars and very cheap to maintain. I remember there is a car if you want to change the headlight bulb you have to remove the front bumper what is so stupid.
Most new cars require a bumper removal to change the headlight assembly. The innovation is going backward. I agree that the fewer features the car has, the more reliable it is. But is it reliable because it has less stuff to break? Japanese can make complex cars that are relatively reliable. Germans can't make a wheel without complicating it
Reliability is such a tough subject. I want to know that if I have to drive out of town 100 miles or farther that I can rely on the vehicle getting me there and back. As you mentioned, the more features a car has, the more things that can and will eventually break given enough time. One fear I have with buying any used Toyota, Lexus, Honda, or other brand that is considered "reliable" is that the prior owners did zero maintenance because "it's a Toyota/Lexus/Honda/etc."
This is my fear as well, I want to know that my car can make a basic trip back and forth if needed. I agree that buying a used Toyota/Lexus is always a crap shoot as people don't do crap to them, drive them for 100k, then unload to the next owner.
"Reliable" is a very overused word. In the Merriam-Webster dictionary, its two definitions are, "1) suitable or fit to be relied on (see DEPENDABLE)" and "2) giving the same result on successive trials." In other words, it's something you can depend on. What does that mean in an automotive context? I have always taken it to describe a car that can take you from point A to point B every time without problems. That's all fine and good, but it doesn't account for most people's definitions of the word. When people say they want a reliable car, they often mean they want something _low-maintenance._ And "low-maintenance" often does account for the little things breaking, like A/C, or a window regulator, or a switch on the dash, or a light going out, or X, Y, Z, and A again. The main point you brought up is very important. When designed, engineered, and built well, a car's drivetrain can last a million miles. However, everything around it will eventually go. And by that time, the car will be less comfortable, less aesthetically pleasing, and less tight than it originally was, unless parts are regularly replaced and/or refinished (i.e. paint) with obsessive care. Unless this type of obsessive care is given to the car over decades, the result will be a tired old thing that most people probably won't _want_ to drive a million miles, and it will likely get scrapped before it hits that mark. Another factor is personal preference. You can take a W126 300SD to a million miles and beyond with no problem. But unless you take really good care of the car and do everything I mentioned, will you _want_ to drive it a million miles? Some people will. Some people have no problem driving a banged-up 40-year-old sedan with faded and oxidized paint, busted suspension, a dashboard that looks like the desert, ripped up seats, a filthy interior, non-working A/C, and a smoke-covered left taillight. But those people have very low standards for a daily driver, and they're rare. Also, the odds are that no car will actually make it to 1,000,000 miles if it's truly neglected like that. Half a million miles, maybe. I always say that the worst thing that can happen to any car is a reputation for reliability, because then owners will stop taking care of their cars. I think the takeaway is that nothing is truly built to be indestructible in every single way. Some cars _can_ make it to a million miles, but unless they're properly taken care of, they won't be _nice_ cars that anyone will really want by the end of those journeys.
Excellent points brought up! You are absolutely correct that when people say they want a reliable car, what they are really talking about is low maintenance and not actual indestructability. I also agree that it is absolutely the worst fate for a car to be labeled reloable as people neglect any and all maintenance which results in a turd being passed on to the second owner and so on.
I think most people who have any mechanical aptitude will agree that when you are talking about cars 20 years old+ the nickel and dime problems add up fast. The regular maintenance(oil changes, fluid changes, belt(s), brake jobs, tires & alignment) if conducted routinely do help for vehicle longevity. The nickel and dime stuff includes a New radiator, new alternator, new fuel pump, power window regulators, HVAC, etc. With that said- we have a 1993 Crown Vic that was a 1 owner and had 58,000 miles on it. We bought it cheap 2 years ago knowing it was going to require every item that is a nickel and dime replacement from the very beginning - so it turned into quite a few dollars to make it tip top! With the purchase of the Vic, tax + title, new tires, new brakes, alignment, new shocks, new radiator, hoses, belt, 4 new power window regulators, new fuel pump, new fuel tank, new power antennae and a battery I am still into this car for a total amount under $7,000. My car may only be worth $3,500 but the drive train is solid, pretty much all of the nickel and dime stuff has been replaced at the beginning and I have had it for almost 2 years with 0 issues. So am I’m financially ahead of buying a new car that depreciates $5-8000 when you drive it off the lot? The last 2 years of cars going up in value is an anomaly so we will see new cars depreciate the way the used to pretty soon. If you buy a car known for reliability - (which in my mind is the drivetrain) and you are able to replace all known and potential problems up front and treat is as an up front cost- the hassle of nickel and dime problems drops dramatically. Also- I remembered you had problems with a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis awhile back- that car was has just cursed!
Very valid points. Taken care of the nickel and dime stuff from the get-go usually gives you a few trouble-free years. I completely forgot about that POS 2002 CV I had. In the end I fixed all the issues and it ran perfect. It just cost a fortune to get it there.
Tough call. I used to drive 1700 miles a month on my 06 Accord. Blew through maintenance cycles like crazy. But I took care of the car with fluid changes when required. Only issues I had was a bad power steering pump, and a cooling fan crapped out. Aside from battery issues (Arizona you go through batteries like crazy), car was dependable.
Only thing was, all the flushes (tranny, power steering, etc) made it very expensive. Was like $500 or $600 for all flushes and that didn't include the oil changes
Im own a 1985 Toyota pickup ( 22r carburetor engine w/ automatic) and 1990 Lexus ls400 are good and great running. I can’t tell of town car or ls400 are better. I was drain the transmission fluid and refill with new AMSOIL transmission fluid is good, put in my Toyota pickup transmission with AMSOIL Transmission fluid too. Of course it’s Toyota. Before I own a 1999 Toyota Camry last me a 250,000 miles. I sell to my friend for $1,200 because his friend brought used 2013 Chevy equinox got broken down on 120,000 mile only! I can’t believe it! My old truck and my old 1990 Lexus ls400 still running like stronger and nothing single of burn oil unlike nowadays have lot of issue to new car. I would keep them forever. Those are my 3 favorites vehicles!
I bought a crown Vic that looks exactly like that one in Minnesota. I went to get it fixed and the frame was ate up so badly I junked it. The body didn’t look to bad but the underside…. Do you have any recommendations on undercoatings I should use? I bought myself a truck and want to keep the frame intact!!
P71b 2011 crown Victoria police cars are simple and made to last , this is my second one , you maintain the fluids, parts are cheap everything heavy duty, price for these are going up as 2011 was the last year. Have to watch when you buy one from the police auctions, engine hours mileage, was it a city car or highway, and not beat to hell! Cars that are v -8s rear wheel drive no turbos no supercharger, older ones less computer crap will last, less is better for maintenance and cost, all that computer crap will not last , as with plastic parts on these engines etc
See my CVPIs, two 2011s, were/are nightmares. Bought one with 66k miles and another with 84k and both were/are horrible. Maybe I got unlucky? The second one I've had for two years and I've replaced everything and now the tranny is out. My grand marquis was amazing for 30k miles though. I maintain my shit too.
Hey Al!!! Reading the other comments and your video has basically said it all. I think everyone that is buying a car has dependability high on the list. If you surveyed every mechanic in the world I would say Toyota would probably win. The only thing I would add to the debate is environment. If you take two of the same cars, put one in NY and the other in Arizona for 10 years, you would end up with 2 different repair records. The salt up here destroys cars!!!! There are mechanics that offer undercoating of fluid film to slow down the rust. But great video Al, you can make this into a series!!! Take care
Very valid point that I missed Joe - environment. We don't have to deal with salt here but that will definitely destroy an otherwise good car. I lived in Minnesota years ago and definitely don't miss that crap. I agree that Toyota is most likely the winner when it comes to a lineup of cars that are mostly realible, although I think their older offerings were definitely better than some of the new stuff.
My 1995 Toyota T100 was still running and driving great at 265,000 miles and a life in the Chicago area. Frame and entire brake system rusted through completely eventually and she had to go to the scrape yard in December 2019 😔
I have a 2004 CR-V that I bought brand new..... unbelievable reliability.... I keep it as a spare car but the rust is getting the best of it. I've seen cars from the south with over 200k miles and they are just slightly dusty...
I guess the flip side of looking for the reliable cars is avoiding the cars that have defects from the factory like the Hyundai/Kia direct injection engines or the Honda 1.5 litre turbos that have a fuel dilution problem into the crankcase......
I have a 90 Ltd. It blew the head gasket about 3 years ago but I kept ignoring it thinking its the intake leaking coolant into the oil. But I drove and beat the dog shit out of the Ltd. When the head gasket got very obvious it was eating coolant like crazy and I drove it to my parents house while staying on the gas to force the water pump to keep the car cool till I got it home and throw it into neutral and cut it off to a roll.
I put 255,000 miles on a 1989 Vic between 1993 and 2005 (I bought it used with 20,000 miles). Trouble free the whole way through with regular maintenance. But I'm sure parts would start needing replacement right after I sold it. BUT.....once you replace the parts, you've got another 250,000 miles of trouble free again. Still cheaper than buying a whole new car.
No doubt Lexus ls400 are nice cars. But they're NOT reliable if made from the years between 1995-2006. Because they all have rubber timing belts & interference engine piston heads. Incase the timing belts break inbetween time, say good bye to your engines or spend a fortune replacing the entire engines. They are ticking time bombs. The rest of the car outside the engines are great. Also Lexus are notorious for oil leaks. 99% of their cars & suvs.
I stay driving old cars and rarely get burned. One of my dailies is a 2006 town car with 97k miles. I drive the hell out of it, like 13k miles per year and the only thing that I have replaced are the front struts.
I like older cars as well, its just hard to find good examples. Are you sure there is nothing else wrong with your Town Car? I bet I can find a million things wrong with it 😄
@Limited Edition Motorcars front struts, seat warmer and oh yeah I need to replace the left rear view mirror as the motor no longer works. That is everything that doesn't work. Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance...
I looked at my 95 GS300 yesterday the body has no rust the under carriage is clean mufflers in tact and on and on it goes. Bolts are clean and not rusted. I do take care of it though and only drive spring summer fall.
I'd have to say total package, no car is perfect and everything mechanical or electrical can fail over time. Some times simplicity is better. As an example; I would rather own a 1986 GMC square body pick up than a 2023 GMC. I'm not saying the 86 is better. In fact the 23 could run circles around it.... But it will be interesting to see if a 2023 GMC with all of its complex systems can still be operational 35 years from now ???? A Mercedes from the 70s is almost a tractor compared to a new AMG. Which one is better? Depends who you ask.
I agree 100% that simplicity is much better but there aren't many simple cars left on the market. Modern cars have definitely come a long way and they are much better at everything than their counterparts from 20-30 years ago. I also agree that any modern car today would be impossible to restore 30 years from now. One module going bad can render the whole thing useless. We will most likely have some type of conversions in the future in order to keep the "classic" 2023 GMC on the road.
@pstreetgarage7304 Ran into this exact issue with a 1996 Grand Marquis that belongs to a friend. Air bag module went bad and part is obsolete. After searching for months, found a used one on ebay. Give it 5 more years and you won't find any.
My one owner 91 LS400 w/57k has been sitting outside for 12 yrs and although the tires are totally dry rotted and the gas is old I'm curious to see if it will start if i change out the gas !?!?!?!? So if anyone would like to see a video I'll make one at the moment of truth !🤔😏👍
Let me tell you something a I owned 2 1989 Crown Vics 1 was the County Square wagon. I drove the sedan 255,000 trouble free miles .God only knows how many hours of just idleing the cars had due to having to keep engines run to keep passengers cool in the summer and warm in the winter.. Nothing fell apart on either car. My wagon had 310,000 miles on it. Both cars were airport cars in my Limo business. As far as the paint 1 waxed them 4 times a year. Being livery cars the were taken to the car wash 2 to 4 times a week depending on the weather. I had no trouble with the paint on either car. The station wagon had the wood trim. Which could also be waxed to prolong life. I wish I would have saved one of them. I just took it for granted that Ford wasn't going to be stupid enough to stop producing them.
Hey CarmineCrapanzano - re: "Let me tell you something ...." 1. comment above is more than one idea !! 2. any other "somethings" you wish to write about ?!?
Reliable cars don't nickel and dime - everything else in addition to the drivetrain should last a reasonable amount of time...which to me is at least approximately 100k miles.
I drive about 30k miles per year for work on average. All of these cars got the same amount/type of use, and I maintain my vehicle.
I've had several "reliable" cars since I started driving 15 years ago. 85 Town Car, 93 Camry, 08 Sienna, 95 T100, 04 Grand Marquis, and Two 2011 CVPIs.
The town car I bought at 77k and I got rid of it at 130k. No drivetrain problems but that car nickel and dimed the shit out of me. Yes it always started. But NOT reliable.
93 Camry was fine but eventually the small issues piled up, and we sold it without fixing anything. It did have the original engine replaced before we bought it
08 Toyota sienna was a fucking BEAST. We took it from (NEW) 0 to 265,000 miles. There were some expensive repairs however they were AFTER 100k miles and NOT often. We finally got rid of it when the transmission went. Amazing car. TRUE RELIABILITY. Ditto the Toyota T100. Bought it was 190k and it rusted out at 265k. Both of these were amazing.
2004 Grand Marquis was also truly reliable BUT I bought it from an old man at 65k miles and sold it at 95k. I did SLAM those miles on in 18 months and the most expensive repair, and only major repair, was fuel pump, but I'm active in the panther community and these guys are known tanks.
My two crown vics...2011s both of them...fucking money pits. Both police cars. One from a rural department and the other from a local department. Both were/are a nightmare. I still have my second one and the transmission just went out at 130k. Transmission is a known issue for these.
That's my two cents. I agree with you that reliability is a WHOLE-CAR concept. With the amount of experience I had with the 2008 sienna...that is my opinion...it is/was one of best and truly most reliable vehicles available.
I bought a 2015 sienna last January with 80k miles. It's sitting at 108k right now. It maybe needs shocks but has had no major issues, and I don't expect it to.
Thank you for sharing. Nickel and dime was the phrase I was looking for! Every panther I have ever owned nickel and dimed me to death, regardless of mileage or condition. So technically speaking, are they really reliable?
I never really owned a car, new or used, that didn't need something at some point. I imagine when new (panther or LS400) one could get away with doing nothing up to 100k miles then dumping the car. This was the case with my LS400.
Never knew about the Sienna, that will probably be my next ride 😄
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars Well both my CVPIs had well under 100k (66k and 84k) when purchased, nickel and dimed all the way up to, and beyond, 100k. They're not really reliable as a rule. Maybe the police abuse? My Grand Marquis was amazing. Toyota sienna van, bullet proof. Would trust my life on those cars.
@TheJimmyBuffalo I imagine that police abuse contributes significantly to the reliability factor.
Another thing are the owners themselves, some people just ignore any signs that a car needs repairs, some have to fix every little thing.
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars I don't necessarily want to fault the CVPIs totally...and maybe I was a little unfair...I maintain my cars but I am very hard on my CVPI. I drive it super hard. A lot of guys baby them.
@TheJimmyBuffalo They were designed to take abuse but they can only take so much I guess.
I never had a CVPI without issues, even the administrative units. Maybe Ford built the fleet cars with crappier parts, like Walmart has a cheaper brand of Michelins.
Talking about a reliable car, I just purchased a 1987 crown Vic LX last summer from the original owner the car only had 32,000 original miles. The crown Vic has never seen a winter or salt, I drive the crown Vic to work everyday, the crown Vic still runs and drives like a new car. The factory AC still blows cold with the original compressor, everything is still original under the hood, except for new brake pads and shoes and new wheel cylinders. This LX model also has factory dual exhaust and a 3.55 posi rear end for towing, this crown Vic is definitely like a unicorn. This is definitely a fine example of a true survivor, I really do believe if I kept this car another 10 or 15 or 20 years it's still will be around. It's funny I always have people tell me that it's a nice restoration and I tell them that the car is original, you should see the look on their face when I tell them that. What's really amazing is there is no leaks underneath this car everything is bone-dry which is very rare for a car that's been sitting and only driven a few hundred miles a year I find that amazing. To tell you the truth they don't make cars like this anymore, cars today will never last like this one!! 🇺🇲🏁🏁😎🏁🏁🇺🇲
I have a 1997 Toyota Celsior which is the JDM LS400. The worst thing I had happen was the alternator go out but that was the original one because the mileage was so low when I got the car.
I replaced the alternator and serpentine belt. Then replaced the timing belt and water pump as well as the spark plugs. After that, I drove from New Mexico to Massachusetts. The car has been pretty solid.
Quick question, did you use 98 ls400 parts for your car ?
@@Metalface1999 Yeah same with body pieces. I had to replace my trunk lid after someone hit me. That's from a 1998 LS400 as well although the wiring is a bit different so be sure to swap over your Celsior wires. Your tail lights are the same and will bolt right in though.
any word on the long term reliability ? How does it deal with rust ( if you are in that geographical zone ) ? Does it give you electrical gremlins ?
Thanks!
Ayy New Mexico
In my opinion it's a the total package which include The Powertrain, easy to fix and parts are available. the least features the car has the least things that it will need maintenance that what my father used to tell me. I gotta say that Crown Vic, Camry, Accord, Land Cruiser and Hilux are the most reliable cars and very cheap to maintain. I remember there is a car if you want to change the headlight bulb you have to remove the front bumper what is so stupid.
Most new cars require a bumper removal to change the headlight assembly. The innovation is going backward.
I agree that the fewer features the car has, the more reliable it is. But is it reliable because it has less stuff to break? Japanese can make complex cars that are relatively reliable. Germans can't make a wheel without complicating it
Reliability is such a tough subject. I want to know that if I have to drive out of town 100 miles or farther that I can rely on the vehicle getting me there and back. As you mentioned, the more features a car has, the more things that can and will eventually break given enough time. One fear I have with buying any used Toyota, Lexus, Honda, or other brand that is considered "reliable" is that the prior owners did zero maintenance because "it's a Toyota/Lexus/Honda/etc."
This is my fear as well, I want to know that my car can make a basic trip back and forth if needed.
I agree that buying a used Toyota/Lexus is always a crap shoot as people don't do crap to them, drive them for 100k, then unload to the next owner.
This is something that not many people mention, and something that I’ve personally experienced with used Toyotas and Hondas
"Reliable" is a very overused word. In the Merriam-Webster dictionary, its two definitions are, "1) suitable or fit to be relied on (see DEPENDABLE)" and "2) giving the same result on successive trials." In other words, it's something you can depend on.
What does that mean in an automotive context? I have always taken it to describe a car that can take you from point A to point B every time without problems. That's all fine and good, but it doesn't account for most people's definitions of the word. When people say they want a reliable car, they often mean they want something _low-maintenance._ And "low-maintenance" often does account for the little things breaking, like A/C, or a window regulator, or a switch on the dash, or a light going out, or X, Y, Z, and A again.
The main point you brought up is very important. When designed, engineered, and built well, a car's drivetrain can last a million miles. However, everything around it will eventually go. And by that time, the car will be less comfortable, less aesthetically pleasing, and less tight than it originally was, unless parts are regularly replaced and/or refinished (i.e. paint) with obsessive care.
Unless this type of obsessive care is given to the car over decades, the result will be a tired old thing that most people probably won't _want_ to drive a million miles, and it will likely get scrapped before it hits that mark.
Another factor is personal preference. You can take a W126 300SD to a million miles and beyond with no problem. But unless you take really good care of the car and do everything I mentioned, will you _want_ to drive it a million miles? Some people will. Some people have no problem driving a banged-up 40-year-old sedan with faded and oxidized paint, busted suspension, a dashboard that looks like the desert, ripped up seats, a filthy interior, non-working A/C, and a smoke-covered left taillight. But those people have very low standards for a daily driver, and they're rare. Also, the odds are that no car will actually make it to 1,000,000 miles if it's truly neglected like that. Half a million miles, maybe. I always say that the worst thing that can happen to any car is a reputation for reliability, because then owners will stop taking care of their cars.
I think the takeaway is that nothing is truly built to be indestructible in every single way. Some cars _can_ make it to a million miles, but unless they're properly taken care of, they won't be _nice_ cars that anyone will really want by the end of those journeys.
Excellent points brought up!
You are absolutely correct that when people say they want a reliable car, what they are really talking about is low maintenance and not actual indestructability.
I also agree that it is absolutely the worst fate for a car to be labeled reloable as people neglect any and all maintenance which results in a turd being passed on to the second owner and so on.
I think most people who have any mechanical aptitude will agree that when you are talking about cars 20 years old+ the nickel and dime problems add up fast. The regular maintenance(oil changes, fluid changes, belt(s), brake jobs, tires & alignment) if conducted routinely do help for vehicle longevity. The nickel and dime stuff includes a New radiator, new alternator, new fuel pump, power window regulators, HVAC, etc.
With that said- we have a 1993 Crown Vic that was a 1 owner and had 58,000 miles on it. We bought it cheap 2 years ago knowing it was going to require every item that is a nickel and dime replacement from the very beginning - so it turned into quite a few dollars to make it tip top!
With the purchase of the Vic, tax + title, new tires, new brakes, alignment, new shocks, new radiator, hoses, belt, 4 new power window regulators, new fuel pump, new fuel tank, new power antennae and a battery I am still into this car for a total amount under $7,000.
My car may only be worth $3,500 but the drive train is solid, pretty much all of the nickel and dime stuff has been replaced at the beginning and I have had it for almost 2 years with 0 issues. So am I’m financially ahead of buying a new car that depreciates $5-8000 when you drive it off the lot? The last 2 years of cars going up in value is an anomaly so we will see new cars depreciate the way the used to pretty soon.
If you buy a car known for reliability - (which in my mind is the drivetrain) and you are able to replace all known and potential problems up front and treat is as an up front cost- the hassle of nickel and dime problems drops dramatically.
Also- I remembered you had problems with a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis awhile back- that car was has just cursed!
Very valid points. Taken care of the nickel and dime stuff from the get-go usually gives you a few trouble-free years.
I completely forgot about that POS 2002 CV I had. In the end I fixed all the issues and it ran perfect. It just cost a fortune to get it there.
Tough call. I used to drive 1700 miles a month on my 06 Accord. Blew through maintenance cycles like crazy. But I took care of the car with fluid changes when required. Only issues I had was a bad power steering pump, and a cooling fan crapped out. Aside from battery issues (Arizona you go through batteries like crazy), car was dependable.
That is crazy amount of driving per month. These simple Hondas and Toyotas seem to run forever.
Only thing was, all the flushes (tranny, power steering, etc) made it very expensive. Was like $500 or $600 for all flushes and that didn't include the oil changes
@davidsimon6998 Flushes and fluid changes are cheaper than replacing a transmission or a diff and having the car at the shop for a while.
Agreed. Just didn't expect so much for a Honda
Im own a 1985 Toyota pickup ( 22r carburetor engine w/ automatic) and 1990 Lexus ls400 are good and great running. I can’t tell of town car or ls400 are better. I was drain the transmission fluid and refill with new AMSOIL transmission fluid is good, put in my Toyota pickup transmission with AMSOIL Transmission fluid too. Of course it’s Toyota. Before I own a 1999 Toyota Camry last me a 250,000 miles. I sell to my friend for $1,200 because his friend brought used 2013 Chevy equinox got broken down on 120,000 mile only! I can’t believe it! My old truck and my old 1990 Lexus ls400 still running like stronger and nothing single of burn oil unlike nowadays have lot of issue to new car. I would keep them forever. Those are my 3 favorites vehicles!
I bought a crown Vic that looks exactly like that one in Minnesota. I went to get it fixed and the frame was ate up so badly I junked it. The body didn’t look to bad but the underside….
Do you have any recommendations on undercoatings I should use? I bought myself a truck and want to keep the frame intact!!
P71b 2011 crown Victoria police cars are simple and made to last , this is my second one , you maintain the fluids, parts are cheap everything heavy duty, price for these are going up as 2011 was the last year. Have to watch when you buy one from the police auctions, engine hours mileage, was it a city car or highway, and not beat to hell! Cars that are v -8s rear wheel drive no turbos no supercharger, older ones less computer crap will last, less is better for maintenance and cost, all that computer crap will not last , as with plastic parts on these engines etc
See my CVPIs, two 2011s, were/are nightmares. Bought one with 66k miles and another with 84k and both were/are horrible. Maybe I got unlucky? The second one I've had for two years and I've replaced everything and now the tranny is out. My grand marquis was amazing for 30k miles though. I maintain my shit too.
They are a hit or miss. It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get.
Hey Al!!! Reading the other comments and your video has basically said it all. I think everyone that is buying a car has dependability high on the list. If you surveyed every mechanic in the world I would say Toyota would probably win. The only thing I would add to the debate is environment. If you take two of the same cars, put one in NY and the other in Arizona for 10 years, you would end up with 2 different repair records. The salt up here destroys cars!!!! There are mechanics that offer undercoating of fluid film to slow down the rust. But great video Al, you can make this into a series!!!
Take care
Very valid point that I missed Joe - environment. We don't have to deal with salt here but that will definitely destroy an otherwise good car. I lived in Minnesota years ago and definitely don't miss that crap.
I agree that Toyota is most likely the winner when it comes to a lineup of cars that are mostly realible, although I think their older offerings were definitely better than some of the new stuff.
My 1995 Toyota T100 was still running and driving great at 265,000 miles and a life in the Chicago area. Frame and entire brake system rusted through completely eventually and she had to go to the scrape yard in December 2019 😔
I have a 2004 CR-V that I bought brand new..... unbelievable reliability.... I keep it as a spare car but the rust is getting the best of it.
I've seen cars from the south with over 200k miles and they are just slightly dusty...
@@Jmz488 I heard that newer CRVs are not as good as the older ones were with owners complaining about cars constantly breaking down.
I guess the flip side of looking for the reliable cars is avoiding the cars that have defects from the factory like the Hyundai/Kia direct injection engines or the Honda 1.5 litre turbos that have a fuel dilution problem into the crankcase......
I have a 90 Ltd. It blew the head gasket about 3 years ago but I kept ignoring it thinking its the intake leaking coolant into the oil. But I drove and beat the dog shit out of the Ltd. When the head gasket got very obvious it was eating coolant like crazy and I drove it to my parents house while staying on the gas to force the water pump to keep the car cool till I got it home and throw it into neutral and cut it off to a roll.
I put 255,000 miles on a 1989 Vic between 1993 and 2005 (I bought it used with 20,000 miles). Trouble free the whole way through with regular maintenance. But I'm sure parts would start needing replacement right after I sold it. BUT.....once you replace the parts, you've got another 250,000 miles of trouble free again. Still cheaper than buying a whole new car.
I think you should include the whole vehicle when you rate if it's reliable or not. It should be that way I think.
Both cars still look great and have aged very well.
No doubt Lexus ls400 are nice cars.
But they're NOT reliable if made from the years between 1995-2006.
Because they all have rubber timing belts & interference engine piston heads. Incase the timing belts break inbetween time, say good bye to your engines or spend a fortune replacing the entire engines.
They are ticking time bombs.
The rest of the car outside the engines are great.
Also Lexus are notorious for oil leaks. 99% of their cars & suvs.
I stay driving old cars and rarely get burned. One of my dailies is a 2006 town car with 97k miles. I drive the hell out of it, like 13k miles per year and the only thing that I have replaced are the front struts.
I like older cars as well, its just hard to find good examples.
Are you sure there is nothing else wrong with your Town Car? I bet I can find a million things wrong with it 😄
@Limited Edition Motorcars front struts, seat warmer and oh yeah I need to replace the left rear view mirror as the motor no longer works. That is everything that doesn't work. Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance...
I looked at my 95 GS300 yesterday the body has no rust the under carriage is clean mufflers in tact and on and on it goes. Bolts are clean and not rusted. I do take care of it though and only drive spring summer fall.
I'd have to say total package, no car is perfect and everything mechanical or electrical can fail over time.
Some times simplicity is better. As an example;
I would rather own a 1986 GMC square body pick up than a 2023 GMC. I'm not saying the 86 is better. In fact the 23 could run circles around it.... But it will be interesting to see if a 2023 GMC with all of its complex systems can still be operational 35 years from now ????
A Mercedes from the 70s is almost a tractor compared to a new AMG. Which one is better? Depends who you ask.
I agree 100% that simplicity is much better but there aren't many simple cars left on the market.
Modern cars have definitely come a long way and they are much better at everything than their counterparts from 20-30 years ago.
I also agree that any modern car today would be impossible to restore 30 years from now. One module going bad can render the whole thing useless. We will most likely have some type of conversions in the future in order to keep the "classic" 2023 GMC on the road.
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars Well said. Not to mention. Many of these "modules" are no longer available after a few years.
@pstreetgarage7304 Ran into this exact issue with a 1996 Grand Marquis that belongs to a friend. Air bag module went bad and part is obsolete. After searching for months, found a used one on ebay. Give it 5 more years and you won't find any.
@@LimitedEditionMotorcars Yep. Orange box under the dash of a C4 Corvette. I think it's a module for SRS. No longer available.
@@pstreetgarage7304 Most of the stuff for the C4 is no longer available. Have to resort to part hoarders to fix anything.
The big question is how cheap will it get to live out its repairs compared to how expensive to get there.
My one owner 91 LS400 w/57k has been sitting outside for 12 yrs and although the tires are totally dry rotted and the gas is old I'm curious to see if it will start if i change out the gas !?!?!?!?
So if anyone would like to see a video I'll make one at the moment of truth !🤔😏👍
Great video. So true.
Compared to today’s plastisiized junk these two cars are still a better value I today’s market..
Wait til the pcm goes out on the panther. The box panthers are too old to daily now.
I spent 32k on my ls400.I love this car my Atlantis blue mica
Yeah, if you want them perfect, you have to spend the money. They are simply getting old, no way around it
Let me tell you something a I owned 2 1989 Crown Vics 1 was the County Square wagon. I drove the sedan 255,000 trouble free miles .God only knows how many hours of just idleing the cars had due to having to keep engines run to keep passengers cool in the summer and warm in the winter.. Nothing fell apart on either car. My wagon had 310,000 miles on it. Both cars were airport cars in my Limo business. As far as the paint 1 waxed them 4 times a year. Being livery cars the were taken to the car wash 2 to 4 times a week depending on the weather. I had no trouble with the paint on either car. The station wagon had the wood trim. Which could also be waxed to prolong life. I wish I would have saved one of them. I just took it for granted that Ford wasn't going to be stupid enough to stop producing them.
Hey CarmineCrapanzano - re: "Let me tell you something ...." 1. comment above is more than one idea !! 2. any other "somethings" you wish to write about ?!?
The crown vic will get to outlive with less, than the lexus even if it broke down more often.
🎌🥇
Mmmm
Crazy nice Crown Vic! I'll take the Vic over the Lexus any day.
Cuánto sale ese victoria
lemotorcars.com/listings/1988-ford-ltd-crown-victoria-lx/