When I was working at Philips Arena in Atlanta back in the early 2000's, the naming contract for the arena had a requirement from Philips that the arena use all Philips light bulbs. The electricians hated the Philips bulbs, as they quite often didn't last long enough for the electrician to take down his ladder. Incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED..... Did not matter. They were all crap. The game lights for Basketball and Hokey games grew so dim that they had to be replaced after 3 seasons, as all the television trucks were complaining about how poor the lighting was becoming. Replaced with GE bulbs and they were still going strong when I left 5 years later.
I have to say I have been surprised by all your failures. I have had 2 go bad in the 7+ years they have been installed in 2 houses. 1 was due to a lightning strike out on our post light and 1 started flickering, that's it. I have Philips, GE, Cree and EcoSmart installed.
I think heat is what destroys a lot of these lamps. Compact electronics & transformer. Some LED bulbs, and even some of the CFL type, won't fit into certain equipment. My garage door opener has 2 lights, one on each side, only a regular sized 60 w (incandescent) bulb fits under the shrouds. The LED's are typically larger due to the heat sinking.
I had a few 240v non dimmable versions of these start flickering and go dim, in my case it was a simple capacitive dropper and the measured voltage across the LED package was 190v. All the capacitors tested fine. They were also quite expensive and technically still work but the flickering was really grinding my gears so I replaced them with some store own brand ones that cost like $12 for a pack of 6. The store ones are currently much brighter (350lm vs 200lm) and consume the same amount of power as the Philips flicker vision bulbs. When I removed the LED from the metal enclosure I noticed there was hardly any thermal paste so maybe that didn't help.
They're probably over-driven; try a series resistor to drop the current to something reasonable, like 25 mA or so. That alone should increase the MTBF. :) As for bulbs, I've got a box of GE CFL bulbs, and I've only had 2 go out in 10 yrs (in different fixtures). Also, don't operate them bulb-side down, or the heat from the "bulb" will add to the heat from the circuitry, and something will give (usually, a cheap 85 degree rated electrolytic cap!)
The first few LED lights I got back in the 2000's only lasted a few days, then a few weeks but then I got some GE brand lights and they are still going!
Probably. I just got some new Warm Glow lights for my dining room, and will be doing a review on those. They are actually very cool technology, and emulate how an incandescent bulb dims. Hopefully these will last.
i agree with you on the LEDs. Ive found a few CFLs that did last many years but not being used all day everyday. Hell my local malwart stopped selling CFLs and have nothing but LEDs for $35-40 for 6 LEDs that are 40 or 60 w equivalent. So i resorted to buying 45w and 65w from amazon that seem ok for the price and warranty. I refuse to buy LEDs for that price when I know they dont last very long. Ive built my own with cheap chinese LEDs and they seem to last , so far. I even converted a couple CFLs to use LEDs and after changing the cheap components they might last more than a year. we'll see. lol Thanks for sharing!
I still use folded flourescent bulbs, i repaired my table lamp flourescent last month, shorted capacitor on the output. I don't really like the idea of led bulbs, they are not up to the job.
The lack of thermal compound explains the failure mode you're having. If the light was flickering before it died completely, it means that the bond wires inside the LED module have failed due to thermal stress. You can sometimes poke at the phosphor material around where the bond wires are to make the LED module temporarily work again to verify the failure. The ~57v you were seeing across the LED driver was the open circuit voltage, if it were a true 4W module with the LED dies in series, the working voltage would be 12.8v max. Some put the dies in parallel for a lower working voltage. If you haven't thrown away the lamp, you can get 5W LEDs on ebay mounted to a star PCB which may or may not fit inside that heatsink base: www.ebay.com/itm/122604065816
Still have the lamp module. But with the new lamps costing a fraction what this one cost., I just replaced the other 3 with 4 new ones which are much brighter then these, as I am sure the other 3 are probably on their way out too.
I like to repair LED bulbs myself, it keeps them out of the landfill. It's often some stupid manufacturing fault like this that's correctable, and the parts cost is pennies.
Yes but by the time the part gets shipped the cost of the part and shipping is higher then the cost of replacing. There are some exceptions but most times there is a shipping charge added, or worse if they decide that there is a customs broker charge. The first LED that I bought failed under warranty. I contacted the manufacture and mailed the defective one back (at my expense, mind you this bulb cost over 30.00 at the time, so 3.00 freight to get a warranty replacement was OK) received my replacement, and 3 weeks later I got a bill in the mail for about 40.00 in broker fees, taxes and duties. If I can find a die for a buck or 2 I might buy one and try it as the electronics are still OK.
The reason why they fail is because for some reason there is no thermal grease in between the LED and heatsink. I use 4W LED lights in bathroom. They have bead type LEDs. None of them lasted 6 months. What I did was I bought 50 beads from aliexpress for like $2 and replaced bad ones with them adding a little amount of thermal compound under. It's been 3 years and had no problems whatsoever. Also that 'heatsink' on your LED is several times smaller than it should be. My 4W LEDs have radiators and they still get to 40-50 degrees celsius if left on for more than an hour.
Aurthor Thing Well if I had high voltage or transients I would expect more sensitive things like the TV or computer to fail. Besides these things have a ballast to drive them so it isn't affected by over voltage. That is controlled by the regulation circuit. As I sit here now I am in s restaurant and they put in all led lights. I can count 60 leds from my table. They were all originally the same color temperature. Right now there are 2 dead and out of the 58 remaining which were all warm white I count, 20 daylight. So 20 have been replaced and 2 are dead. Not good odds of you ask me.
It's frustrating that these bulbs that are supposed to save all thus energy die young. When you factor in the energy to produce these things I get the feeling the led thing is, so far, a net loss.
The ones I have used certainly are. I picked up a 4 pack at Costco for 12.99 and these ones are much brighter than the outgoing 3 year old ones, but I have a feeling that the old ones were much brighter when they were new.
12voltvids i hate to sound like "that guy" but I can't help but think it's on purpose. I think people are so used to changing bulbs all the time that (unless you're into electronics and know better) they just don't notice most of the time. I mean how hard is it for a multibillion dollar a year company to stick a little diode and a circuit board in a housing and make sure it doesn't reach the temperature of the surface of the sun after 5 minutes.. Oh well
Starting to hate LEDs, just in the last year 75% of LED TV failures im getting are because of blown LEDs. Rarely is it worth it for me to tear down the TV to get to them, but I usually do it anyway... Not to mention how damn flimsy the frames/bezels/diffusers and reflectors are.
You and me both. This one that burned out wa sinstalled April 24 2014 (I wrote the date on one of the other bulbs installed at the same time and quite dim now.) Warranty was 3 years. They expired 3 months ago, go figure.. When I bought them they were 35.99 for a 2 pack. Just went to Costco, and a 4 pack are 12.99 so I replaced all 4 and what a difference. I can actually see again in my office. Will see how long these ones last. Package says 22 years. I seriously doubt that.
I find it funny how many super-expensive "brand name" LED bulbs are just junk. Yet the $5.00 DX special I bought four years ago is still going strong. Granted, I had one chinesium cap failure in a set I ordered later, made one stop lighting, but a brand name cap fixed that right up. Heck, even when CFLs were all the rage, they were just junk, except the old magnetic ballast ones. I marked dates on every CCFL spiral before I installed them. Can't recall how many six-packs I filled up with dead ones and returned/swapped because they all died before the warranty was up. The icing on the cake is no place to recycle them, so now mercury, electronics, and phosphors in the landfill instead of just some glass and metal. environmental, my *ss.
I used to buy the LED Light Bulb at the Dollar Tree worth of a Dollar. And i'm not sure it'll last long so I'll find out by myself. Speaking of Edison Bulb, GE Company used to called the old Light Bulb of "Mazda Lamp" because, they think it was not a bad name that is naming after Persian Light of Woman.
That's why I don't like led tv's got 2 years out of my tv before the back light failed. It was going to cost more to repair than what the tv was worth.
I'm surprised to see next to no noticeable heatsink compound underneath the LED PCB. Often heat is a major cause of failure with LED bulbs so I'm not surprised yours didn't last. I tend to buy them as cheap as I can find and treat them as more disposable than they should be - so much for improved environmental waste!
I'LL BE DAMNED. SAME HERE, I GOT THE CHEAPEST HIGHEST WATT EQUIVALENT I COULD FIND IN A CANDELABRA BASE AT WALMART (60w) AND THEY STARTING ACTING UP FROM DAY ONE. THEY WERE $5 EA. THEY PREMIUM ONES WERE ALMOST $8 BUCKS. THEY ARE CRAZY BAD. WHEN I CAME HOME ON THE 1ST DAY THEY WERE FLASHING SO BAD IT LOOKED LIKE A STROBE AT A DISCO. DOGS LOOKED AT ME LIKE WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? IT'S ANNOYING FIX IT! HOWEVER, I DID GET A OUTDOOR RECESSED MINI FLOOD (100w) FROM HOME DEPOT THAT WAS ON CLEARANCE FROM $18 DOWN TO $7. WITH A 10 YEAR WARRANTY! IT HAS A MUCH BETTER DESIGN WITH 3 LEDS AND THE LEDS DON'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THAT PHILIPS. IT'S CRAZY BRIGHT AND RUNS ALL NIGHT EVERY NIGHT FOR 2 1/2 YEARS NOW WITH NO DEGRADATION/PROBLEMS. I CAN'T RECALL THE BRAND, BUT THEY WERE DISCOUNTED BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T SELLING AT THAT PRICE SO THEY WERE DROPPING THE PRODUCT. I ACTUALLY KEPT THE WALMART RECEIPT BECAUSE I HAD MY DOUBTS. THEY NOW ONLY GO TO 60% OF ORIGINAL BRIGHTNESS AND I AM GOING TO RETURN THEM. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE COUNTING ON WHEN THEY PULLED THIS CRAP. WHO'S GONNA SAVE LIGHTBULB BOXES AND RECEIPTS FOR 3-10 YEARS? SO FAR THE PREMIUM ONES ARE PROVING THEY CAN MAKE THEM WELL IF THEY WANT TO. THEY BETTER IF THEY WANT THAT KIND OF $$$ FROM ME. haha
When I was working at Philips Arena in Atlanta back in the early 2000's, the naming contract for the arena had a requirement from Philips that the arena use all Philips light bulbs. The electricians hated the Philips bulbs, as they quite often didn't last long enough for the electrician to take down his ladder. Incandescent, fluorescent, CFL, LED..... Did not matter. They were all crap. The game lights for Basketball and Hokey games grew so dim that they had to be replaced after 3 seasons, as all the television trucks were complaining about how poor the lighting was becoming. Replaced with GE bulbs and they were still going strong when I left 5 years later.
Got any more juicy gossip on Philips LED's?
I have to say I have been surprised by all your failures. I have had 2 go bad in the 7+ years they have been installed in 2 houses. 1 was due to a lightning strike out on our post light and 1 started flickering, that's it. I have Philips, GE, Cree and EcoSmart installed.
I think heat is what destroys a lot of these lamps. Compact electronics & transformer.
Some LED bulbs, and even some of the CFL type, won't fit into certain equipment. My garage door opener has 2 lights, one on each side, only a regular sized 60 w (incandescent) bulb fits under the shrouds. The LED's are typically larger due to the heat sinking.
The Led light have a mini switching power supply.
I had a few 240v non dimmable versions of these start flickering and go dim, in my case it was a simple capacitive dropper and the measured voltage across the LED package was 190v. All the capacitors tested fine. They were also quite expensive and technically still work but the flickering was really grinding my gears so I replaced them with some store own brand ones that cost like $12 for a pack of 6.
The store ones are currently much brighter (350lm vs 200lm) and consume the same amount of power as the Philips flicker vision bulbs.
When I removed the LED from the metal enclosure I noticed there was hardly any thermal paste so maybe that didn't help.
They're probably over-driven; try a series resistor to drop the current to something reasonable, like 25 mA or so. That alone should increase the MTBF. :) As for bulbs, I've got a box of GE CFL bulbs, and I've only had 2 go out in 10 yrs (in different fixtures). Also, don't operate them bulb-side down, or the heat from the "bulb" will add to the heat from the circuitry, and something will give (usually, a cheap 85 degree rated electrolytic cap!)
The first few LED lights I got back in the 2000's only lasted a few days, then a few weeks but then I got some GE brand lights and they are still going!
Do you think the heat inside the cap of the bulb is increasing the degrade rate of the already fragile electolytics? Just a thought!
Probably.
I just got some new Warm Glow lights for my dining room, and will be doing a review on those. They are actually very cool technology, and emulate how an incandescent bulb dims. Hopefully these will last.
i agree with you on the LEDs. Ive found a few CFLs that did last many years but not being used all day everyday. Hell my local malwart stopped selling CFLs and have nothing but LEDs for $35-40 for 6 LEDs that are 40 or 60 w equivalent. So i resorted to buying 45w and 65w from amazon that seem ok for the price and warranty. I refuse to buy LEDs for that price when I know they dont last very long. Ive built my own with cheap chinese LEDs and they seem to last , so far. I even converted a couple CFLs to use LEDs and after changing the cheap components they might last more than a year. we'll see. lol Thanks for sharing!
The only problem its the heat sink being too small for the diode itself and they know that but like also you know too, they need to keep selling more.
Class action lawsuit? What a scam. 20 years, my eye.
I still use folded flourescent bulbs, i repaired my table lamp flourescent last month, shorted capacitor on the output.
I don't really like the idea of led bulbs, they are not up to the job.
I'd have expected to see thermal compound on the back of the LED board.
RedDragonUKTech
So did I.
The lack of thermal compound explains the failure mode you're having.
If the light was flickering before it died completely, it means that the bond wires inside the LED module have failed due to thermal stress. You can sometimes poke at the phosphor material around where the bond wires are to make the LED module temporarily work again to verify the failure.
The ~57v you were seeing across the LED driver was the open circuit voltage, if it were a true 4W module with the LED dies in series, the working voltage would be 12.8v max. Some put the dies in parallel for a lower working voltage.
If you haven't thrown away the lamp, you can get 5W LEDs on ebay mounted to a star PCB which may or may not fit inside that heatsink base:
www.ebay.com/itm/122604065816
Still have the lamp module. But with the new lamps costing a fraction what this one cost., I just replaced the other 3 with 4 new ones which are much brighter then these, as I am sure the other 3 are probably on their way out too.
I like to repair LED bulbs myself, it keeps them out of the landfill. It's often some stupid manufacturing fault like this that's correctable, and the parts cost is pennies.
Yes but by the time the part gets shipped the cost of the part and shipping is higher then the cost of replacing.
There are some exceptions but most times there is a shipping charge added, or worse if they decide that there is a customs broker charge.
The first LED that I bought failed under warranty. I contacted the manufacture and mailed the defective one back (at my expense, mind you this bulb cost over 30.00 at the time, so 3.00 freight to get a warranty replacement was OK) received my replacement, and 3 weeks later I got a bill in the mail for about 40.00 in broker fees, taxes and duties. If I can find a die for a buck or 2 I might buy one and try it as the electronics are still OK.
The reason why they fail is because for some reason there is no thermal grease in between the LED and heatsink. I use 4W LED lights in bathroom. They have bead type LEDs. None of them lasted 6 months. What I did was I bought 50 beads from aliexpress for like $2 and replaced bad ones with them adding a little amount of thermal compound under. It's been 3 years and had no problems whatsoever.
Also that 'heatsink' on your LED is several times smaller than it should be. My 4W LEDs have radiators and they still get to 40-50 degrees celsius if left on for more than an hour.
SinsBird if a 4w bulb is getting that hot, I wonder it is really burning more than 4w.
Well I haven't really measured it, just touched it, so it may be less :)
@@alphabeets They're 5W actually.
I haven't had any LEDs go out.
This makes me wonder if you have high voltage at your house? Or maybe transients are knocking them out?
Aurthor Thing
Well if I had high voltage or transients I would expect more sensitive things like the TV or computer to fail. Besides these things have a ballast to drive them so it isn't affected by over voltage. That is controlled by the regulation circuit. As I sit here now I am in s restaurant and they put in all led lights. I can count 60 leds from my table. They were all originally the same color temperature. Right now there are 2 dead and out of the 58 remaining which were all warm white I count, 20 daylight. So 20 have been replaced and 2 are dead. Not good odds of you ask me.
It's frustrating that these bulbs that are supposed to save all thus energy die young. When you factor in the energy to produce these things I get the feeling the led thing is, so far, a net loss.
The ones I have used certainly are. I picked up a 4 pack at Costco for 12.99 and these ones are much brighter than the outgoing 3 year old ones, but I have a feeling that the old ones were much brighter when they were new.
12voltvids i hate to sound like "that guy" but I can't help but think it's on purpose. I think people are so used to changing bulbs all the time that (unless you're into electronics and know better) they just don't notice most of the time.
I mean how hard is it for a multibillion dollar a year company to stick a little diode and a circuit board in a housing and make sure it doesn't reach the temperature of the surface of the sun after 5 minutes..
Oh well
Imagine the cost of having to buy ten of them to make it through the promised 20 years.
We should just go back to incandescent bulbs
Starting to hate LEDs, just in the last year 75% of LED TV failures im getting are because of blown LEDs. Rarely is it worth it for me to tear down the TV to get to them, but I usually do it anyway... Not to mention how damn flimsy the frames/bezels/diffusers and reflectors are.
You and me both. This one that burned out wa sinstalled April 24 2014 (I wrote the date on one of the other bulbs installed at the same time and quite dim now.)
Warranty was 3 years. They expired 3 months ago, go figure.. When I bought them they were 35.99 for a 2 pack. Just went to Costco, and a 4 pack are 12.99 so I replaced all 4 and what a difference. I can actually see again in my office.
Will see how long these ones last. Package says 22 years. I seriously doubt that.
I find it funny how many super-expensive "brand name" LED bulbs are just junk. Yet the $5.00 DX special I bought four years ago is still going strong. Granted, I had one chinesium cap failure in a set I ordered later, made one stop lighting, but a brand name cap fixed that right up.
Heck, even when CFLs were all the rage, they were just junk, except the old magnetic ballast ones. I marked dates on every CCFL spiral before I installed them. Can't recall how many six-packs I filled up with dead ones and returned/swapped because they all died before the warranty was up. The icing on the cake is no place to recycle them, so now mercury, electronics, and phosphors in the landfill instead of just some glass and metal. environmental, my *ss.
vintagepc64
I just bought some luminous to replace the Philips. Will see how they last.
Well you can not complain as the bulb will last for up to 20 years if used less than 5 hours per day
It was used for perhaps 3 hours a day and lasted 3 years.
An honest energy calculation has to factor in the energy needed to make this complex thjng and transport it from China
1 penny to make, 1 penny to transport from China. There happy.
one of mine just died after almost 10 years!!
I used to buy the LED Light Bulb at the Dollar Tree worth of a Dollar. And i'm not sure it'll last long so I'll find out by myself.
Speaking of Edison Bulb, GE Company used to called the old Light Bulb of "Mazda Lamp" because, they think it was not a bad name that is naming after Persian Light of Woman.
That's why I don't like led tv's got 2 years out of my tv before the back light failed. It was going to cost more to repair than what the tv was worth.
I'm surprised to see next to no noticeable heatsink compound underneath the LED PCB. Often heat is a major cause of failure with LED bulbs so I'm not surprised yours didn't last. I tend to buy them as cheap as I can find and treat them as more disposable than they should be - so much for improved environmental waste!
Pete Allum
What about the new filament type led. No heat sink at all. They do fill the bulbs with carbon monoxide because it transfers heat well.
I'LL BE DAMNED. SAME HERE, I GOT THE CHEAPEST HIGHEST WATT EQUIVALENT I COULD FIND IN A CANDELABRA BASE AT WALMART (60w) AND THEY STARTING ACTING UP FROM DAY ONE. THEY WERE $5 EA. THEY PREMIUM ONES WERE ALMOST $8 BUCKS. THEY ARE CRAZY BAD. WHEN I CAME HOME ON THE 1ST DAY THEY WERE FLASHING SO BAD IT LOOKED LIKE A STROBE AT A DISCO. DOGS LOOKED AT ME LIKE WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? IT'S ANNOYING FIX IT! HOWEVER, I DID GET A OUTDOOR RECESSED MINI FLOOD (100w) FROM HOME DEPOT THAT WAS ON CLEARANCE FROM $18 DOWN TO $7. WITH A 10 YEAR WARRANTY! IT HAS A MUCH BETTER DESIGN WITH 3 LEDS AND THE LEDS DON'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THAT PHILIPS. IT'S CRAZY BRIGHT AND RUNS ALL NIGHT EVERY NIGHT FOR 2 1/2 YEARS NOW WITH NO DEGRADATION/PROBLEMS. I CAN'T RECALL THE BRAND, BUT THEY WERE DISCOUNTED BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T SELLING AT THAT PRICE SO THEY WERE DROPPING THE PRODUCT. I ACTUALLY KEPT THE WALMART RECEIPT BECAUSE I HAD MY DOUBTS. THEY NOW ONLY GO TO 60% OF ORIGINAL BRIGHTNESS AND I AM GOING TO RETURN THEM. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE COUNTING ON WHEN THEY PULLED THIS CRAP. WHO'S GONNA SAVE LIGHTBULB BOXES AND RECEIPTS FOR 3-10 YEARS? SO FAR THE PREMIUM ONES ARE PROVING THEY CAN MAKE THEM WELL IF THEY WANT TO. THEY BETTER IF THEY WANT THAT KIND OF $$$ FROM ME. haha
Those light bulbs are junk I'm on my second one
Give the Ikea Ledare 400lm or Ryet 200lm GU10 bulbs a try.