Jay's Tech Tips #43 - When Are Aluminum Rods Right for You? - Real Street Performance
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- So when does an aluminum rod become the right call for your build? Jay explains it all in this week's Jay's Tech Tip.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
![Aluminium Conrod Pros and Cons | GRP Connecting Rods [TECH TALK]](/img/n.gif)
the way you explain technical things makes real sense! thank you so much
I knew there was more to a aluminum rod then weight savings , thanks Jay.
awesome info Jay, thanks.
Goldmine of information!!!!!
Thank you Jay!
You guys do some incredible work ! Maybe one day, when I need to refresh my Evo engine, I'll give you guys a shout ! :]
Very informative video. Thanks for the knowledge good Sir.
That was an awesome video. Learned a lot
For years most have missed the boat on alloy rods. I had a friend run a set in a sprint car with no issues for a season, fairly harsh environment. I would love to know if any boat guys have run them as boats are the biggest engine killer of all. Not from horsepower but from jumping out of the water and grabbing a fistful of free revs (or should I say not free revs). Thanks for the good video.
very informative as always jay thanks bro...
Such good tips that help so much 👍🏻
I love these videos from you guys
@ 2:48... good job Jay...yes transmission! 😄 just kidding...top quality as always...👍
I was so wrong on why guys move to AL rods
Thanks for these vids !
Great video!
Love the vids
great vid
Engine: H22A4
Block: Darton Wetsleeved
Goal: 550hp - endurance racing w/ long periods of 100mph+
Rods: Aluminum or Forged?
Best explanation I’ve seen. Thanks for posting .
I love your channel. It is full of knowledge.
Seriously, you should write a book and thank me later. Lol
I love what u got say phat bot!! We need some subaru
sir can u give any review when to change fuel pump n/a vs boosted
I ran aluminum rods on my street driven Evo with no issues
Adam Furr At what RPM limit , level of HP at the Flywheel and how many kms/hours on the engine so far?
Evo? No issues? We know you lying
Really though how long and at what hp??
The disappeared from ur new channel videos
great! would like to hear about ignition timing and the factor that influence advancing or retarding ignition..thanks
bad ass thx for the pro tip
I have some questions about my current 2jz build concerning aluminium rods. I would like to move from my current I beam turbo tough rods at 250hp per cylinder to 350-400hp with an aluminium rod but I'm a little worried to make the switch. Will I be replacing rods after every 1/2 mile event?
Good info, question, what weight of oil is good for a aluminum rod 4g63, I was told 15/50?
Hi.
would an aluminum work in circuit racing like time atack?
engine is a k20 and around 700-800hp. I really like the idea of less weight and less strain on the bearings
Would you recommend an aluminum rod for a street car, say 50k miles between rebuilds? How about an endurance engine build for AutoX?
I have a 99 eclipse gsx (4g63)
Ive been trying to figure out if i should go with aluminium rods. Im only looking for 550-600 whp, but im looking to rev the engine around 9500-10k for road racing and some drag racing. What do you think?
I ran Aluminum rods in my blown gas flat drag boat with BBC and injection at the Parker Strip in Az with now issues at all on gas, Ran really hard and sounded like it was on alcohol.
Have you ever noticed any stretching of the wristpin hole? I've always
wondered about this being an issue on a motor that sustains 10,000rpm
with aluminum rods. Even an 8000RPM motor that's stroked a little more
aggressively. EDIT: My follow up question would be have you ever noticed
the wristpin hole stretch on a motor that has sustained significant
detonation / pre ignition?
The pin boss can see some microwelding from the piston/pin flexing and displacing the oil. The pin bore itself it's going to be worked into a new shape with the proper parts. If the engine is detonated it's going to die from a head gasket or piston failure north of the pin boss.
Would aluminum rods be better for a track car? I’m building my s2000 soon. Looking to supercharger once I’m done building the head, looking to make 450+hp
hi boys Aluminum rod or steel rod for an rb 28 knife edge crank ? 600- 700kw 9000 rpm for track work and street pulls ?
What's a good number to hit for stock single stock ecu upgraded injectors I'm trying to go OEM plus stuck from my twins so I can bolt up a new exhaust manifold and maybe go huge standalone turbo
How does it handle large Multiple stage NOS? Haven't use those since 1987 in big block Chevy stroker hi deck. Been a while building one last hot rod still old school playing catch-up. Back then only ran 400 hp nos.
How about treating the bearings with WPC., to extend the life?
At 150-200hp per cylinder on a 2jz built for LONG life and bearing life, would the aluminum rod be a better choice now a days?
How long will aluminum rods last in a 900+ street civic motor is a gsr and will be ran at 900 plus at the track and 600+ on the street driven everyday
What about cast Vs forged? Does one have better strength over the other? Also, what about titanium rods?
I can use this rods for my daily car k20turbo or not?
Wouldnt etching your logo on the piston cause a place for detonation? I know its not a sharp point with very little material, but seems like it would absorb heat a little faster than the polished part of the piston. Maybe you can shed a little light on this?
You guys are full of good information. Thanks for your community services !
I don't feel that you could possibly quantify that creating an issue. When you watch in cylinder videos of detonation it starts around the perimeter of the bore.
Thanks for the kind words!
looks laser etched to me
Well I am going run 1/4 quarter miles and pushing the car to its limits so how often I should change my aluminium rods
Is there a middle-ground with Titanium Rods?
What is a good piston to go with? Say RnR rods at standard bore or similar Rods at 85.0 on a 4g63 evo3 block with 2G head. Thank you for all the knowledge you share.
William, the piston selection will depend mostly on the power level and fuel type. Shoot me an email at parts@realstreetperformance.com and I will help get you pointed in the right direction
Do you find it a problem to engine brake at high RPM on the aluminum rods? If in an automatic application would you have to switch to neutral at the end of a pass to avoid this?
I'm not sure what you're saying. Brake or Break? Are you saying deceling in gear can cause stress? Yes it can however at the point that you have aluminum rods you likely have a auto trans with a free wheeling forward drum. If it's a manual trans you click it into neutral.
Thank you Jay for these interesting and informative videos.
A question: Do you think aluminum rods would be a good choice for the VQ37VHR engine that is in my Nissan 370Z. The engine is stock and generates about 55 hp per cylinder and the car is only driven spiritedly on occasion. My future plans for the engine are to bore and stroke it out to about 4.3 liter and up the compression slightly, keeping it NA. I thought that reducine the reciprocating mass in the engine would be a nice thing to do. Thanks again.
I wouldn't recommend aluminum rods for that application. The stock rods might be your best bet for that application if you are keeping it NA
@@realstreetperformance Thank you Jay, much appreciated. I'm going to follow your advice as I plan the rebuild on that engine.
Jay,can you daily drive aluminum rods in a d16 mini me swap with a direct port zex nitrous kit at close to 11:1 compression?Want to be different with no problems...
Derrick, i dont think there is any reason why you COULDN'T run aluminum rods in that engine, but the setup you described does not really call for aluminum rods. That setup shouldn't have a problem keeping bearings alive with a steel rod.
can use my k20 turbo everyday car?
Almost ready to buy from you guys, Honda b16a Jdm. It's stock so I should order stock size pistons just different compression right? The bore should be factory? I'm looking at Eagle and wiseco pistons maybe a 10 compression for less turbo lag only looking for 300 or so
Miguel, please give me a call at 407-695-7223 or email me at Sales@RealStreetPerformance.com so i can help you. The bore size will depend on the condition of the cylinder walls. Even if its stock, if the engine is high mileage, and the cylinder walls are worn, its very possible that you will not be able to use a standard bore piston, because the cylinder may need to be bored over to get the surface perfect again.
Can you explain 10000 more clearance between piston and head ? Because i dont understand, we use mm in here. Anyone can help ?
I request a valves buying guide. dish type material type standard or over sized etc
Is there a weight advantage? Rpm advantage?
did he just say... 300hp per cylinder?
yes, is not impossible for drag race engine
Yep...on the street.
Well, yeah, with few turbos size of a bucket or supercharger size of the engine itself, very well possible.
I think papadakis racing making 250 per cylinder
Can we make a video about aftermarket ECU? 😁😁😁
What material are aluminum rods typically made out of? I assume it's not the cheap 6061 you buy at the local metal supply shop
6075 i think?
Awesome job, but sometimes the weight and bearing clearance change too. Can you give a little
more detail on this.
Hey Glen, if you are not subscribed to our channel I invite you to do so. We have a video specifically for this topic :) czcams.com/video/UhFaw45l9FI/video.html
how about daily use would it be ok
It would get expensive as they have a short lifespan. It's mainly for racing as you have to track their use and replace as they fatigue.
The only time you want to run an aluminum rod that is if you want maximum performance and maximum RPMs because you'll have to change them connecting rods after every 50 passes
Scott, thank you for your input. It's very common to hear people throw statements like this around, and more often than not they end up being misleading without more qualifying information. For example, your statement cannot be true both for an engine that makes 200hp/cyl that revs to 8000rpm AND an engine that makes 330hp/cyl that revs to 11,000rpm. The same aluminum rod may last much longer in the 200hp/cyl 8000rpm engine than in the 330hp/cyl 11,000rpm engine. And BOTH of them may last way more than 50 passes, or way less. In many street/strip applications the aluminum rod can last as long as the aluminum piston its attached to. There are simply too many variables for anyone (with any experience level) to ever say "aluminum rods only last xx passses" ...its not just rpm and power either, things like piston weight, stroke, rod angle also play a big role. So while your statement may be true for SOME engine at SOME power level and SOME RPM, it cannot be used as blanket generalization.... Thank you for joining the conversation scott, this is how we all learn, please stay tuned because we have more aluminum rod content coming soon where we will show some examples of how the parts hold up over time in different applications!
realStreet whats the soundtracks on your videos
What's the price difference between a regular turbo tuff rod and aluminium rod?
Currently the turbo tuff is about $250 usd per rod and the R&R aluminum unit is around $180 usd each.
Jay Meagher Thank you
Jay Meagher I love you from London
Ok so what about Ti rods?
Hmm interesting
is a aluminum rod the same as what you call a forged rod? cause when i want to build my srt4 motor all i hear and builders tell me to get a forged rods and pistons. i guess the stock srt4 pistons are made from eutectic aluminum alloy. from what ive read that is between cast amd forged piston? is this correct? with a good safe tune the srt4 can make 450whp on a stock block. do you know if this is true? i would like to build my engine buy next year but i just dont know wich ones to get? i want a set that i dont have to upgrade again in the future. i always thought it wouldent hurt getting super strong rods. even ones that can handle twice the power.
Cast and forged rods are both made from steel, just manufactured in different ways.
+NorwayVFX the final product can be said the same technical spec but the forged product is a lot more reliable
4150 and 4340 both forged but diff technical spec
Most modern engines use a low expansion alloy to aid in lowering emissions. You can move to either a 4032 alloy or 2618 alloy piston. The 4032 isn't as durable as the 2618 and a 2618 requires more clearance than a 4032. Most guys just buy a 2618 forging. If you still have questions please contact the sales staff they can get you on the right track.
WHAT ABOUT IF YOU COULD INCORPORATE THAT ALUMINUM ROD WITH A BUILT IN HARMONIC BALANCE INSIDE OF THE ROD SO NOT JUST THE ALUMINUM ANY QUESTION LET ME KNOW OK
That would weaken the rod itself
At the end of the day, when comparing two material to make a connecting rod what you need to look into is the specific tenacity at the temperature of use (tenacity/density). Now If you take a 7075 T-6 shot pined alluminium rod it will surpace any steel alloy for that as long as the heating cylcle doesn't go hot enough to affect the heat treatment. The gain from lighter con rod will allow you to have a lighter crankshaft end there for reducing all the rotational inertia of the internal engine parts (who needs to be accelerated at every gearshift). The next concern with aluminium is the abrasion resistance. Since aluminium's is much softer then steel it will wear down alot faster then steel unless you put a ceramic coating to have an harder surface who will also act has a lubricant sponge and an heat insolator, or use an harden steel bearing who can be easily rectified at the proper diam.
How often do bearings need replacement in a 200hp/cylinder and in a
300hp/cylinder engine with steel,titamium and aluminum connecting rods?
Depends on the size of the bearing in respects to bearing speed and how good the oiling system is. I don't have hard numbers to share as it would be a expensive test to perform and would only be hard data for the engine configuration used in the test.
Hmmm i understand..thanx for your answer Jay...i would also like to ask you how much can a 1000hp engine and a 1800hp engine last...how many full throttle passes or how many miles?for example to your rs1600package how often do you recommend a refresh or a rebuild and what parts must be changed firt second third etc....
thanx for your time Jay...
I wonder if an aluminum rod would be good for an aircraft engine; is there really any weight savings? 540 cubic inch air cooled engine 2500rpm and 300hp for 2000 hours between overhauls.
I just wish to know how many miles they will go not any of this "we rev to 10000 rpm all the time. I want to know what the metal does after so many miles and if they can even be reused or even make it to 200-300k miles.
2:01... i thought it was Chrisfix for a second...
nice informative vdo though... :)
What about a Titanium rods? I've been saving up for some!
They don't carry the dampening effects the aluminum rods do and are pretty expensive. You also should be mindful of the coat that's needed to keep them from marrying each other. If you can afford them and you're looking to replace a steel rod to shed some weight it's certainly a good option.
Jay Meagher I agree. DLC coating is not cheap
Take some time and do a little research on DLC coating, it's pretty awesome for some wear parts in a piston engine. I've been using it on piston pins and valve buckets with good results. There are OE engines that are getting piston skirt and rings DLC coated now, pretty exciting stuff!
Thanks Jay. I was actually considering some for my car.
Does anyone sell DLC coated pins or do they need to be sent off, and any recommendations?
whats the water leak at 1:42??
The gasket between the water pump and pump housing was leaking. With a few hundred gallons of water in the dyno's tank I wasn't going to let it slow my day down.
Keyon Harrold
Aluminum connecting rods are lighter in weight, right?
They can be. Usually they are. It depends on the application. Aluminum itself is lighter than steel. But because its softer than steel, they often make the aluminum connecting rod bigger than the steel version, to spread the load over more material. So the question is how big can they make the rod without hitting anything through its cycle of rotation. Most aluminum rods end up being lighter than the steel versions for the same engine even though they are physically bigger.
Someone once told me that you "Absolutely CANNOT run aluminum rods on a daily driver street car". He didnt really specify why though but it didnt make much sense to me. Is this true at all? He made it sound like its ONLY used for high revving applications. Im building a 454 and I want it to be able to rev real high, around 8k rpm.
Well, I can tell you that we put aluminum rods in 1000+hp supras that get driven daily just to see if that statement is true. And what we found out is that for us, in Florida weather, with our machining clearances and oil selections, we have not had any problems running aluminum rods daily. Now, that being said, the aluminum does expand faster than steel as it gets hot, so bearing clearance becomes a function of heat. You have to take this into consideration when setting your bearing clearance during assembly. You can't set it up the same way you did with aluminum rods. If you set the bearing clearance too tight, there wont be enough bearing clearance when its cold. if you set it up too loose then there will be too much bearing clearance when its right. Also the oil weight and the weather in your area can play a role. Too thick of an oil or too cold of a climate could make things worse. Depending on where you live, some people need to run an oil heater and cycle warm oil through the engine (like by spinning the dry sump gear) before starting the engine.
@@realstreetperformance Thank you so much for the reply!
hi there is there a rod available for the sr20
Yes, they can be built for any engine.
Thanks jay .
+Peter McDonnell . Jay will call you to order a set .will you send to Australia
We ship globally daily, thanks Peter!
300hp per cylinder? thats insane
What does he mean by 300hp per cylinder? So if I had a 4 cylinder and had 300hp per cylinder then I would have a 1,200hp car?
thats exactly correct. for example, our white supra has a 6cyl making 300hp+ per cylinder, so its 1800hp+
You must unscrew the rods bolts before stocking the car/engine for a long period :-/ ... Not sure if an aluminium rod can make an huge mileage :-/
theangel540 I’m not sure where you heard that but we have not experienced that. We do not unscrew the rods before storing a car and we have never had a problem before. We also have aluminum rods in cars that get driven often and have not experienced problems yet.
hi is the formula works for V8
200hp per selinder
"It's easy to make power" oh yea when you got a jz the real question is how much
We ran then back in the 80s
jay can i email you i hana built my evo e need your help
Sure. You can use frivera@realstreetperformance.com or Jay@realstreetperformance.com
Thank you.
Rods egg out. And then bearings wear.
Bloodviking
If you want bulletproof never aluminum
Aluminium Rods: For street use when you feel lucky and made out of money.
Aluminium = Plastic.