9:40 Put more heat at other side of a bend (side that get streched). Bend easier. Any tool made of chinesium, before first use, require complete dissasembly, cleaning of piles of casting sand and chips left inside, deburring, replacement af all screws and bearings with propper ones, replacement of oil and that jam they call grese, etc.. Ask me how I know :)
I think of these import lathes and mills as a kit, per-assembled, needing to be finished. After buying them, you discover that there are ways to improve them as you use them. It is half the fun of having them, as you end up getting creative, and it is a great way to learn how to use the machines, what their capabilities are and limits, and how to work within them. Once you start modifying them as time passes, you will always have new ideas come to you, and that machine you brought home will become a totally different beast. Kind of like bikers personalize their bikes.
@@johncoops6897 I agree wholeheartedly. Spoken like someone who has actually been there and done that, anyone can engage in channel watching. Being a fitter and turner from way back, every piece of machinery must be set up, checked, adjusted and commissioned, not only in line with manufacturing guidelines but with accepted workshop practice and (of course) that involves who the equipment is going to be used.
It's also kinda sad you have to accept buying junk, equals allot of effort, time and maybe extra money, waisted. Just to get something working OK. Not good, not perfect. But OK. I know allot of guys have this way of thinking in the hobby segment. I think it's sad we constantly import stuff made super poor, that need a disassembly and check before use. All is accepted because they(most of them) had never used a quality machine, and can see and feel the difference.
@@OmeMachining - it is accepted ONLY because the price of these imports is many times less than a "quality" machine. Is it worth paying 3, 4 or even 5 times the price, rather than doing a bit of work to bring the cheapo import up to reasonable standards? Put another way... if you only have a budget of (say) $2000, can you even buy a "quality machine" for that price? Even if you could, how would the specs and performance compare? In the old days, we had no choice but to buy a high quality machine with correspondingly high price. Now days, we have a wider choice and for many people the price/performance balance of import machines make them a no brainer. Of course, if we actually could get high quality at low price, then we'd all choose that. Unfortunately that simply doesn't exist... especially in lathes, mills, etc. We'd ALL love to have the best of everything, but hardly any of us have the $$ funds to accomodate that desire. 😉
ISO 68 hydraulic oil is what was recommended to me for ways and gearboxes. Ferrite or Alnico magnets in the gearbox is what I'd recommend to you. Strong enough to catch filings, not quite strong enough to magnetise the gears. Be sure to do one or two oil changes in the first couple months of use while the gearbox wears in. And be sure to work those nipples, the grease nipples that is.
If you haven’t yet. Add a magnet to the bottom of the drain plug to help catch any wear particles. That way when you pull the drain plug it pulls the filings out with it
The abrasives in the oil are meant to help run the gearboxes in. Knocks off the sharp edges, makes everything smooth. You should replace the abrasives with sawdust for lifelong noise reduction. Also, pour concrete into the gearbox while running at high speed to minimise free space. During concrete curing, the gears will create the space they need. This trick will cut oil consumption by 90% and it will add mass which will mean more money at the scrapyard.
what you just said has just the right amount of believability that im struggling to decipher if youre fucking around or not. I want to be able to clearly state this is trolling, but I just cant. Nice job
Some good improvements, especially the removal of sand from the gearboxes! The chip tray cover looks good, I made and fitted roller blinds to my lahe ways, much better than bellows, cheers, Dave
Rule #1 for every import lathe: Don't turn it on, take it apart... wrong aussie - but it still fits. I have a quite similiar lathe from Vevor and I had the exact same issues - but I was looking up other peoples reviews, and knew, what I was into. Take the whole thing apart, soak it in break cleaner, rinse it, oil it, reassemble it. That's why they're so "cheap" - a proper one is still double the price. But made of the same casting. And passed the original manufacturers QA.
I suggest replacing the bolts fastening the chuck with DIN 913 set screws. This will lessen the thread wear when changing chucks. It might also be a bit faster to unscrew a nut.
Nice idea, using studs in stead of bolts... Good thinking, especially with cast iron threaded bores in the chuck... A faint brush of high pressure lubricant and those will sit in there rust free forever essentially...
My Harrison M300 lathe specifies a 68 weight oil in the headstock but the feed gearbox uses a 220 weight. It's a larger lathe but the layout is much the same. All other parts show a 68 weight oil to be used.
Bought one of these 6 years ago. Instantly fitted a QCTP taken from the previous smaller lathe.. After a year fitted a DRO. This year replaced the QCTP with a wedge type Aloris clone. Made a similar chip tray, but drilled holes for oil nipples. Not happy with paint quality. Tailstock has a tendency to slip on the ways. Some foam to keep chips from going through openings in headstock. Of course not highest accuracy. A decent lathe in size and price. Serves me well.
It's a shame that the build quality is not better. The price is not that low that one would expect to have to rebuild the unit, but I guess I'm just still too old school German. Thanks for the video. Very useful.
After seeing you fix the issues of the mini lathe, i'd expect you to improve even a DMG or Trumpf machine. Looking forward to the videos and projects with the new lathe!
Whoa! So much sediment! Thank You for telling others the machine is good, but flush out every bit of oil and change it before running the gears. You saved people much loss of machine longevity. Well Done, Mate! 🤩
While I applaud your ingenuity and tenacity in getting to the bottom of these teething problems, it seemed to me that the company selling this equipment needs to get their act together. They have been selling this product for a long time and should have got to the bottom of these basic quality issues. You have spent a good chunk of change on this “new” lathe and you shouldn’t have to strip it down and clean out a gearbox that looks like it’s been run for 20 years. Love your content, it still amazes me what you can achieve with this low end gear. Keep up the good work👏👏
agree totally. hare and forbes should do a predelivery clean and oil change , At least add a note to the Australian warranty paperwork to make customer aware,.This is just like buying a new car. H and F Sales manager take note
Nah, you have no idea what is the price range of a ``proper`` machine... The same machine, but properly done, with all edges and surfaces and what not refined, honed, softened and so on, whatever the section requires, would be immensely more costly... I will point you to schaublin mini lathes, they are not much larger, no more complex, likely 10x better in material quality, but that notwithstanding, they are a swiss made lathe that outta box is what you imagine this lathe should have been, and what the guy in the replies above me says that it is like buying a new car... Sure, but a new car comes with a hefty price... A new schaublin mini precision lathe is around 20k$... Dont quote me on that, im not sure, but i have seen them used in good condition for 5-10k$, so merely by doubling that, i hope to be near the right tag price, but i could be wrong and they could be even more costly outta factory... The point is, he paid what, 2K for this lathe? Its a wonder he didnt receive raw castings in flasks full of sand for that price... Fitment and precision refinement and finishing of any such machinery are hella time consuming and demand a passionate, skilled worker, which in a few words means high expense... A cnc machine can work these castings in batches, dozens a day, and it needs a single dude to supervise and do what machine wont(haul the castings onto and off the table, once the cnc is done)... That is profitable use of a single worker, but a single worker can fit perfectly a single lathe per day... That, when you are selling potentially hundreds of these, is a waste of money, in the eyes any modern company... Or at least ones that dont have the reputation of a paragon of machining excellence for last century essentially, like schau, yamazaki, deckel and the likes who are still in business even today... Such a company can ask new car money for a new machine, but a no name import(essentially) is in no position to ask for such prices, nor can they afford the cost of excellence of a watchmakers fit... To them, every cent spared is a profit, due to sales margins, but that cant be a mystery to you, not in this day and age where even cars are made in that manner and are junkpiles made to barely outlive the warranty before bolts start snapping and paint starts peeling...
A critical point on almost any lathe is the nut that engages the lead screw behind the carriage. When chips get into it, you can't see it from the outside. Therefore, a cover on the left side of the carriage is highly recommended.
The chip tray makes sense. I would still get way covers. The "armoured bellows" style seem good, the metal strips on top provide a smooth surface. They are not unreasonably expensive, but seem easy enough to put together yourself if you want to diy something similar.
Also picked one of these up, It's a BL250G by WMT CNC. It's based upon their CJM250. I recently contacted them about a DRO kit, $285 USD shipped to me in Sydney.
ISO68 is a little to thick for this kind of gearbox, ISO46 is better, at least for the spindle. The good thing is 68 will lower the noise of the gearbox. DRO is handy on a lathe, less than on a mill, but if the lathe is rigid enough, you go directly to the correct dimension in diameter.
I can't imagine buying a lathe without a DRO. Maybe if the lathe was 1:1 imperial or metric without trying to convert with an inaccurate leadscrew etc then I can likely live without it but I don't have the money for that kind of lathe XD.
@XxIcedecknightxX DRO is no-brainer on either, especially now when you can buy a kit for like 200$. Who wants to constantly fiddle with backlash on dials?
You did a good job with your mod's. I've also had Hafco gear and also had to 1/2 pull them to bits and rebuild them. It won't stop me from buying equipment from them. They are a good mob to deal with.
way covers seem like a nice thing if they work well, i got an old lathe and forever sucking the shit up with the shop vacuum, the long curly sworf gets stuck in the hose. so anyway that keeps the chunky stuff easy to pickup off, and the small chips easily vacuumable is a nice thing.
ISO oils mainly contain anti foaming agents because they are designed for hydraulic systems. You are better off using automotive manual gearbox oils which contain EP (extreme pressure) additives, these provide excellent gear wear protection and bearing protection. gearbox oils also contain agents to prevent oxidation of brass components (bushes). ISO oils do not have these benefits. Any API GL4 manual gearbox oil will do. ISO68 is equal to 10W-40 viscosity, so is GL4 gearbox oils. The only reason ISO oils appear in lathe manuals is because many workshops have hydraulic equipment so it's accessible. That's it. attention Artisan Makes.
You picked up a REALLY sweet lathe. Your unboxing was a hoot! When you removed all the extra hardware, that was the best. That oil was a potential HUGE problem. There is ZERO excuse for that coming out of a factory. The only things I saw that bothered me was some of the casting was rough. With a bit more effort that would have had a bad ass over all finish. That oil….. that is insane! Definitely a phone call needs to be made. You are smart and thorough going thru the machine the way you did. That shows your expertise. Excellent video. GOOD LUCK! Post up what the factory says. SWEET MACHINE!
Glad to see you got there in the end. Chinese machinery is what it is, more than capable once you realize that. They are however to be considered a 'kit' for lack of better wording. Get it home, to your workshop or wherever and rip it apart. Clean everything! Deburr everything! Inspect, lube and reassemble. After this you should get many years of service so long as you treat it right. A note on your welding. The tiny sparks flying off are caused by contamination, in your case mill scale. Bright shiny metal around 20mm from the weld both sides where possible. TIG is especially fussy when it comes to cleanliness and surface prep, but the rewards are immediate and plenty. On top of that you'll have a much better experience welding.
Great vidclips on your HAFCO Lathe .... Sure enjoyed it being a Retired Toolmaker... ( Still working, at 72 years Old .... There is just NO Good Tradesman out there ) Best to All from ChCh, NZ
Hate to say : I told you. Change the oil again after a few months, to see what is going on. Use more frequent the oil-points in the beginning to flush out the debris of the cast iron imperfection (like the old days car running in). Yes, I did use also some seal to close the caps from leaking. Good job on the covers.😊
Don’t forget the strip the chuck if you haven’t already, you will be surprised how much grit is in there. I have a couple of hafco machines and they OK just have to strip, clean and deburr before you do too much work with them.
Chip tray is so much useful. Just much easier to build from aluminum. And rather than holes for the two bolts, use just ONE bolt and a slot in the tray edge : it is then so much easier to remove any time you want to clean or just need the little extra space. And last, when you want to remove the chuck (or put it back in place) just put a piece of 25 mm tube in the jaws going in the spindle hole. It's a nice trick to hold the chuck in place while you fidget to get the screws.
Ahhh, the gearboxes are good. Yeah, you may have some casting sand and slag in the oil, but the shine in the oil is just gear break in wear. Think of it as they seated and deburred themselves. Definitely a good thing to drain and flush! Nice machine!
Just a point, when I worked in a large machine shop and we had to strip down a lathe for repair we were told not use kerosene on any of the slides as kerosene is a considered abrasive
You should use those ball oilers and the hand oil pump for proper oiling. That includes the chuck. Make sure that the tip of the pump has the proper size, in order to press down the balls of the oilers. For those who don't know, the oilers are those brass fitting with a bearing ball in the middle. They are everywhere and easy to spot. As you oil it, the oil will push out the debris.
Thankyou once again. I was looking to buy a Myford ML7 restored in South Australia. I thought I would hold off and see how you go with the new lathe. Its always hard when you are trying to balance quality and cost when purchasing a new lathe. I really appreciate your efforts and look forward to the next episode.😊
Glad you had the idea to check the gearboxes and apron, my used industrial lathe had oil that looked like yours. But mine is an industrial machine built in 1974 and purchased at auction so expected.
Nice vid mate. Personally I would look at removing the spindle bearings and cleaning them too. Flushing the GB was good, but I doubt the kero cleaned the races properly
I had to do the same on my lathe , china grit is a machine killer ! I have a DRO Setup and I love it .. ENJOYED ..👍👍.. This lathe will be great for making your Kart parts ..
Having watched several vids by Stefan Gotteswinter and Robin Renzetti on some of the Chinese stuff they have bought its pretty obvious that stripping these things down is a MUST before you start doing anything with this stuff.
for the best of both worlds, you could turn that chip catcher into a telescopic way cover like you see on big machines. Make scissors inside to keep the slats evenly spaced. Those covers are expensive to buy and the only reason I can think of is the precision folding needed to get a decent seal around the folds.
The chip pan seems like a big improvement, definitely will be doing something similar to mine. Offshore equipment needs to be treated like a kit, pre-assembled to help guide the new owner when disassembling, cleaning and deburring. Cheers
I worked for a company that produces DMG mori lathes , and we used to scrape some surfaces to level for example the support for the ball screw and other components
I guess this is like running-in a car or bike years ago. You'd take it back at 500 miles so that the fliuds could be changed taking all the filings and burrs with it. Perhaps another oil change in the near future just to make sure? I quite like doing a bit of work on a new tool to make it 'mine'. Well done on the handles and covers, a definite upgrade 👍
A good thing about a metal chip pan, is that it also can double as lathebed protection when using a hacksaw i the lathe to "part" stock. (I just have a piece of wood that fits on the bed, when sawing.)
Congratulations on the new lathe I have the AL320G and also had to clean all the gearbox out of sand etc while I was there replaced the spindle bearing with good quality ones. Great video thanks for sharing Cheers.
Like you I sealed my AL300 to the chip tray for exactly the same reason. Just a bit jealous of the gearbox, mine has belts! Simple to use, just a bit dirtier.
God damn... looked like the oil came from a disused KFC. I was surprised at the amount of grinding compound and swarf in the mechanism. Completely disassembled the compound and cleaned it up as it should be. Thanks for the tip and keep em coming ;)
I guess I was lucky. My lathe needed assembly so I cleaned it as I assembled it. By having it come dissembled, I could lift the bed/headstock more easily.
Be more worried about that 'oil' did to any unshielded bearings and bushings than what it did to the gears. It's Hare and Forbes, the gears were probably marginal to begin with.
When i bought my Bernardo 500 hobby lathe the first thing before use was an oil change and gearbox cleanup. I use iso46 hydraulic oil. Could also use 32 or 68 hydraulic oil. Alot of discussion of proper oil for lathes in internet.
I've just upgraded from a Sieg SC3 to one of these. Will be cleaning it and changing oil before I use it, having seen this. I'll monitor your progress with interest!
A worthy upgrade would be to install James Clough (Clough42 on CZcams ) electronic lead screw, he has recently updated his boards to be noise immune. It’ll be the second upgrade to my lathe after all the cleaning and deburring you are doing here. 😊
The amount of crud left in the machine is probably the norm for the price point. Although the lube did its job. This is why using the correct lubrication is key. The correct gear oil for a splash system will allow all the crud to settle out. If you used say Automotive oil or pressurized system , there are detergents that will carry the crud to the filter. Its good you even bothered to check
I feel like one of the first jobs of any lathe should always be to make itself new handles, factory handles are designed for it to be comfortable for everyone to use (or worse comfortable for just the guy who designed it) so unless you've magically got the perfact hand size and shape it's not going to be great. There is no excuse for a lathe to have bad handles
Which oil to use in the lathe is always a bit difficult if it is not specified by the manufacturer, and since the manual for your lathe specifies "Machine oil" we will assume that it was not specified. The viscosity of the oil best suited to a specific gearbox is a big compromise, dependent on a number of factors. I would not go higher than ISO46 in the headstock and thread-cutting gearboxes while using ISO68 in the apron and on the ways and other surfaces. I base this on the peripheral speed of the gears. Interestingly, the part number of the spindle bearings shows it as being an angular contact bearing. There appears to be no oil groove at the top of the spindle head nor any gravity feed holes, so splash lubricated only. Okay, take a look and make sure that every important surface is well splash lubricated with the oil grade you used, don't run it at speed with the top off unless you like "oil painted" walls You already know the issues with abrasives, but don't forget case hardening. If you work on case-hardened material, the case-hardening can come off as very sharp chips, not good for your lathe. All machinists need a good file for lathe work, there are special files made for lathes, these are single cut with the angle of the teeth far more oblique. I see Sutton has resurrected the P&N brand and sell files under this name (not made by Sutton or associated companies), including a lathe file. I have not bought one, so I cannot vouch for their quality. Okay, lathe mods, The wipers on small (up to 1 metre or so) lathes are usually a joke, I would inspect them and replace them with something more effective, felt is okay but I see a few people using stiff rubber that faces outward from the saddle ways. It is best to use the heaviest oil you can get for the ways, the dust and crud will sit on the upper surface due to surface tension and the wipers will remove the oil with the crud protecting the critical surfaces. Oilers, these little lathes are missing many oilers, you can use a good lathe to identify where extra ball oilers can be added, it will not hurt. Once you have all the ball oilers in place, you may have to use a Dremel or similar to create grooves for the oil to move along and lubricate the whole sliding surface, also look for oilers where the oil just gets pushed straight out of the slide ways, a complete waste of time. Judging from your videos, the rest you know.
I would generally avoid Hare & Forbes like the plague. I realise that they supply affordable machinery, but it is poor quality and their service/warranty is worthless. My first lathe was the AL-320G. When I bought it, I asked if there was anything I needed to do before using it. They replied "Our technicians do a comprehensive check and test before you get it so it's ready to go. Nothing more needed." I set it up and turned it on. Noisy but functioning. Tried my first workpiece under a light load and thought "This really is noisier than I expected". Turned out it had been shipped dry.....no lubricant at all. So much for their 'technicians'. I have had several machines from H&F and each one has had serious issues. H&F's response......They're all like that, live with it.
A simple mod I made was to put a shallow chip pan under the bed, made from a cheap oven tray, its just slides out to empty it and is far easier than trying to get under with a brush.
Handy video! I actually picked up the AL320G the day before you put up your llast video which was a really fun coincidence, so I'll be following your journey with this one extra keenly
I don't care who makes it, factory oil is a break in oil. It should always be changed. The casting process is dirty by it's very nature. Handle was a cool idea I plan on stealing for mine.
Now I realise mine is a little bit bigger but same thing. Engine is covered already and i have some problems with the guides. Also too much vibrations. 160 mm diam chuck
I don't know if it's been mentioned but the back of your motor being open to chips would be my biggest concern. LOL. Never mind. Watched it through to the end
Ah yes, virtually every machine from Harey Forbes needs that flushout of the headstock and gearbox since no-one cares what condition it is in after it leaves the factory as long as it is running and not noisy.. Something you might consider is adding a removable chip tray. I found a decent size Mint (brand name) baking tray at WW that fits under my lathe that is easily removable that collects the majority of the chips. So, enjoy making chips and pieces with you new toy and I can't wait to see what else you have in the making soon.
You need to get yourself a battery bandsaw. I got one for cutting bits of stock up. Does a 2" piece of free machining in a couple of minutes. I got lucky with that stuff... a lift was being decommissioned and stripped out... turns out it had solid round rails and I managed to score about 20m of it for a couple of coffees...
I have a AL320G. It came with oil leaks, (every cap screw behind the back gears were loose), the gearbox flush was as bad as yours and my magnet found a 6mm cap screw swimming in the bottom of the gearbox.
Nice. But watch out for that lip when holding a large part in the chuck! The jaws hang down past the chuck diameter. Fortunately my tray was aluminium so didn’t do any damage … other than to the tray 😢
Looking forward to the first lathe project. I am curious to know how much trust you have in the dials of that machine. I keep going back to calliper/micrometer measurements when turning tight tolerances. I don't trust my dials.
With dials, approach your measurements from the same direction. ( i.e. if you went too far, do a turn back, and repeat from the "proper" direction.) This way the measurements should be more consistent.
9:40 Put more heat at other side of a bend (side that get streched). Bend easier.
Any tool made of chinesium, before first use, require complete dissasembly, cleaning of piles of casting sand and chips left inside, deburring, replacement af all screws and bearings with propper ones, replacement of oil and that jam they call grese, etc..
Ask me how I know :)
how do you know? :)
@@yosyp5905 I dissasembled few too late :)
I think of these import lathes and mills as a kit, per-assembled, needing to be finished. After buying them, you discover that there are ways to improve them as you use them. It is half the fun of having them, as you end up getting creative, and it is a great way to learn how to use the machines, what their capabilities are and limits, and how to work within them. Once you start modifying them as time passes, you will always have new ideas come to you, and that machine you brought home will become a totally different beast. Kind of like bikers personalize their bikes.
It's the reason they're so cheap - and it's not bad, it just means you have to put in the work. I agree with you.
To make that comment, you obviously haven't watched many (if any) of the videos on this channel.
@@johncoops6897 I agree wholeheartedly. Spoken like someone who has actually been there and done that, anyone can engage in channel watching. Being a fitter and turner from way back, every piece of machinery must be set up, checked, adjusted and commissioned, not only in line with manufacturing guidelines but with accepted workshop practice and (of course) that involves who the equipment is going to be used.
It's also kinda sad you have to accept buying junk, equals allot of effort, time and maybe extra money, waisted. Just to get something working OK. Not good, not perfect. But OK.
I know allot of guys have this way of thinking in the hobby segment.
I think it's sad we constantly import stuff made super poor, that need a disassembly and check before use.
All is accepted because they(most of them) had never used a quality machine, and can see and feel the difference.
@@OmeMachining - it is accepted ONLY because the price of these imports is many times less than a "quality" machine.
Is it worth paying 3, 4 or even 5 times the price, rather than doing a bit of work to bring the cheapo import up to reasonable standards?
Put another way... if you only have a budget of (say) $2000, can you even buy a "quality machine" for that price? Even if you could, how would the specs and performance compare?
In the old days, we had no choice but to buy a high quality machine with correspondingly high price. Now days, we have a wider choice and for many people the price/performance balance of import machines make them a no brainer. Of course, if we actually could get high quality at low price, then we'd all choose that. Unfortunately that simply doesn't exist... especially in lathes, mills, etc.
We'd ALL love to have the best of everything, but hardly any of us have the $$ funds to accomodate that desire. 😉
Artisan, chuck some neodymium magnets in the bottom of the gear cases maybe?
Good idea
100% agree
I highly recommend this technique 👌
If this piece of garbage was sold to me, it would be on the back to China.
Magnet is mandatory, be surprised how much metal they attract, especially from the soft gears, don't ask me how I know.
ISO 68 hydraulic oil is what was recommended to me for ways and gearboxes.
Ferrite or Alnico magnets in the gearbox is what I'd recommend to you. Strong enough to catch filings, not quite strong enough to magnetise the gears.
Be sure to do one or two oil changes in the first couple months of use while the gearbox wears in.
And be sure to work those nipples, the grease nipples that is.
CCE used ISO 68 in the Big Lathe install.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
If you haven’t yet. Add a magnet to the bottom of the drain plug to help catch any wear particles. That way when you pull the drain plug it pulls the filings out with it
The abrasives in the oil are meant to help run the gearboxes in. Knocks off the sharp edges, makes everything smooth. You should replace the abrasives with sawdust for lifelong noise reduction.
Also, pour concrete into the gearbox while running at high speed to minimise free space. During concrete curing, the gears will create the space they need. This trick will cut oil consumption by 90% and it will add mass which will mean more money at the scrapyard.
The ball bearings are certainly looking forward to the concrete. 😂
Lower carbon footprint would be the big plus for me, along with drying up the Swedish elf puppet tears…!👀🧐😎😜🙈
Peace
what you just said has just the right amount of believability that im struggling to decipher if youre fucking around or not. I want to be able to clearly state this is trolling, but I just cant. Nice job
@@userblame632 Every joke has a grain of truth in it.
Every Chinese lathe has a mountain of abrasives in the gearbox oil.
@@userblame632The "more money at the scrapyard" bit tipped me off.
i really enjoy the "this old tony/stuff made here" feel of this video, very cool
Some good improvements, especially the removal of sand from the gearboxes! The chip tray cover looks good, I made and fitted roller blinds to my lahe ways, much better than bellows, cheers, Dave
Being able to do work through the headstock will be a huge game changer. Don't let it spoil you too much!
Rule #1 for every import lathe: Don't turn it on, take it apart... wrong aussie - but it still fits. I have a quite similiar lathe from Vevor and I had the exact same issues - but I was looking up other peoples reviews, and knew, what I was into. Take the whole thing apart, soak it in break cleaner, rinse it, oil it, reassemble it. That's why they're so "cheap" - a proper one is still double the price. But made of the same casting. And passed the original manufacturers QA.
"for every import lathe: Don't turn it on, take it apart" Unless the lathe is from Germany or Switzerland. ;)
@@peterpan7903Or Japan
I suggest replacing the bolts fastening the chuck with DIN 913 set screws. This will lessen the thread wear when changing chucks. It might also be a bit faster to unscrew a nut.
Nice idea, using studs in stead of bolts... Good thinking, especially with cast iron threaded bores in the chuck... A faint brush of high pressure lubricant and those will sit in there rust free forever essentially...
You will be surprised just how much value a DRO will provide you when you finally add one. But yeah, QCTP would be step 1.
Gday, I’m glad you flushed the headstock and gearbox, first think I did with my lathe, great improvement mate, cheers
My Harrison M300 lathe specifies a 68 weight oil in the headstock but the feed gearbox uses a 220 weight. It's a larger lathe but the layout is much the same. All other parts show a 68 weight oil to be used.
Bought one of these 6 years ago. Instantly fitted a QCTP taken from the previous smaller lathe.. After a year fitted a DRO. This year replaced the QCTP with a wedge type Aloris clone. Made a similar chip tray, but drilled holes for oil nipples. Not happy with paint quality. Tailstock has a tendency to slip on the ways. Some foam to keep chips from going through openings in headstock. Of course not highest accuracy. A decent lathe in size and price. Serves me well.
Glad to hear that it’s good overall. I’m looking at the eofy sales!
It's a shame that the build quality is not better. The price is not that low that one would expect to have to rebuild the unit, but I guess I'm just still too old school German. Thanks for the video. Very useful.
After seeing you fix the issues of the mini lathe, i'd expect you to improve even a DMG or Trumpf machine. Looking forward to the videos and projects with the new lathe!
if it were a Mikron i doubt he'd have many things to upgrade tho
You know maintenance is not out to improve anything for you. You want something done right, do it yourself.
Whoa! So much sediment! Thank You for telling others the machine is good, but flush out every bit of oil and change it before running the gears. You saved people much loss of machine longevity. Well Done, Mate! 🤩
While I applaud your ingenuity and tenacity in getting to the bottom of these teething problems, it seemed to me that the company selling this equipment needs to get their act together. They have been selling this product for a long time and should have got to the bottom of these basic quality issues. You have spent a good chunk of change on this “new” lathe and you shouldn’t have to strip it down and clean out a gearbox that looks like it’s been run for 20 years. Love your content, it still amazes me what you can achieve with this low end gear. Keep up the good work👏👏
agree totally. hare and forbes should do a predelivery clean and oil change ,
At least add a note to the Australian warranty paperwork to make customer aware,.This is just like buying a new car.
H and F Sales manager take note
Nah, you have no idea what is the price range of a ``proper`` machine... The same machine, but properly done, with all edges and surfaces and what not refined, honed, softened and so on, whatever the section requires, would be immensely more costly... I will point you to schaublin mini lathes, they are not much larger, no more complex, likely 10x better in material quality, but that notwithstanding, they are a swiss made lathe that outta box is what you imagine this lathe should have been, and what the guy in the replies above me says that it is like buying a new car...
Sure, but a new car comes with a hefty price... A new schaublin mini precision lathe is around 20k$... Dont quote me on that, im not sure, but i have seen them used in good condition for 5-10k$, so merely by doubling that, i hope to be near the right tag price, but i could be wrong and they could be even more costly outta factory... The point is, he paid what, 2K for this lathe? Its a wonder he didnt receive raw castings in flasks full of sand for that price...
Fitment and precision refinement and finishing of any such machinery are hella time consuming and demand a passionate, skilled worker, which in a few words means high expense... A cnc machine can work these castings in batches, dozens a day, and it needs a single dude to supervise and do what machine wont(haul the castings onto and off the table, once the cnc is done)... That is profitable use of a single worker, but a single worker can fit perfectly a single lathe per day... That, when you are selling potentially hundreds of these, is a waste of money, in the eyes any modern company... Or at least ones that dont have the reputation of a paragon of machining excellence for last century essentially, like schau, yamazaki, deckel and the likes who are still in business even today... Such a company can ask new car money for a new machine, but a no name import(essentially) is in no position to ask for such prices, nor can they afford the cost of excellence of a watchmakers fit... To them, every cent spared is a profit, due to sales margins, but that cant be a mystery to you, not in this day and age where even cars are made in that manner and are junkpiles made to barely outlive the warranty before bolts start snapping and paint starts peeling...
All of this cheap Chinese stuff needs dismantling & cleaning before use.
That’s part of why they’re so cheap.
A critical point on almost any lathe is the nut that engages the lead screw behind the carriage. When chips get into it, you can't see it from the outside. Therefore, a cover on the left side of the carriage is highly recommended.
The chip tray makes sense. I would still get way covers.
The "armoured bellows" style seem good, the metal strips on top provide a smooth surface.
They are not unreasonably expensive, but seem easy enough to put together yourself if you want to diy something similar.
Also picked one of these up, It's a BL250G by WMT CNC. It's based upon their CJM250. I recently contacted them about a DRO kit, $285 USD shipped to me in Sydney.
ISO68 is a little to thick for this kind of gearbox, ISO46 is better, at least for the spindle.
The good thing is 68 will lower the noise of the gearbox.
DRO is handy on a lathe, less than on a mill, but if the lathe is rigid enough, you go directly to the correct dimension in diameter.
I can't imagine buying a lathe without a DRO. Maybe if the lathe was 1:1 imperial or metric without trying to convert with an inaccurate leadscrew etc then I can likely live without it but I don't have the money for that kind of lathe XD.
@XxIcedecknightxX DRO is no-brainer on either, especially now when you can buy a kit for like 200$. Who wants to constantly fiddle with backlash on dials?
You did a good job with your mod's. I've also had Hafco gear and also had to 1/2 pull them to bits and rebuild them. It won't stop me from buying equipment from them. They are a good mob to deal with.
way covers seem like a nice thing if they work well, i got an old lathe and forever sucking the shit up with the shop vacuum, the long curly sworf gets stuck in the hose. so anyway that keeps the chunky stuff easy to pickup off, and the small chips easily vacuumable is a nice thing.
ISO oils mainly contain anti foaming agents because they are designed for hydraulic systems. You are better off using automotive manual gearbox oils which contain EP (extreme pressure) additives, these provide excellent gear wear protection and bearing protection. gearbox oils also contain agents to prevent oxidation of brass components (bushes). ISO oils do not have these benefits. Any API GL4 manual gearbox oil will do. ISO68 is equal to 10W-40 viscosity, so is GL4 gearbox oils.
The only reason ISO oils appear in lathe manuals is because many workshops have hydraulic equipment so it's accessible. That's it.
attention Artisan Makes.
You picked up a REALLY sweet lathe. Your unboxing was a hoot! When you removed all the extra hardware, that was the best. That oil was a potential HUGE problem. There is ZERO excuse for that coming out of a factory. The only things I saw that bothered me was some of the casting was rough. With a bit more effort that would have had a bad ass over all finish. That oil….. that is insane! Definitely a phone call needs to be made. You are smart and thorough going thru the machine the way you did. That shows your expertise. Excellent video. GOOD LUCK! Post up what the factory says. SWEET MACHINE!
Still using the hack saw. Guess it’s just tradition at this point.
I like that he left in the hacksaw skipping there, always nice to see an honest mistake, let's ya know the guy is human.
That oil looked awful, good job you spotted it before any harm came to the gears. Thank you for sharing your time with us. Have a great week.
Ive heard this before, that any smaller lathe will be full of grit.
Glad to see you got there in the end. Chinese machinery is what it is, more than capable once you realize that. They are however to be considered a 'kit' for lack of better wording. Get it home, to your workshop or wherever and rip it apart. Clean everything! Deburr everything! Inspect, lube and reassemble. After this you should get many years of service so long as you treat it right.
A note on your welding. The tiny sparks flying off are caused by contamination, in your case mill scale. Bright shiny metal around 20mm from the weld both sides where possible. TIG is especially fussy when it comes to cleanliness and surface prep, but the rewards are immediate and plenty. On top of that you'll have a much better experience welding.
Great vidclips on your HAFCO Lathe .... Sure enjoyed it being a Retired Toolmaker... ( Still working, at 72 years Old .... There is just NO Good Tradesman out there ) Best to All from ChCh, NZ
Hate to say : I told you. Change the oil again after a few months, to see what is going on. Use more frequent the oil-points in the beginning to flush out the debris of the cast iron imperfection (like the old days car running in). Yes, I did use also some seal to close the caps from leaking. Good job on the covers.😊
Don’t hate to say it, it was a good thing that you did
Don’t forget the strip the chuck if you haven’t already, you will be surprised how much grit is in there. I have a couple of hafco machines and they OK just have to strip, clean and deburr before you do too much work with them.
see episode 1
Those gearboxes were shocking. You need to tell them. Love this channel it's more real than a lot of others.
Chip tray is so much useful. Just much easier to build from aluminum. And rather than holes for the two bolts, use just ONE bolt and a slot in the tray edge : it is then so much easier to remove any time you want to clean or just need the little extra space. And last, when you want to remove the chuck (or put it back in place) just put a piece of 25 mm tube in the jaws going in the spindle hole. It's a nice trick to hold the chuck in place while you fidget to get the screws.
Ahhh, the gearboxes are good. Yeah, you may have some casting sand and slag in the oil, but the shine in the oil is just gear break in wear. Think of it as they seated and deburred themselves. Definitely a good thing to drain and flush! Nice machine!
Fit the DRO you wont be sorry. I love the chip tray. Think I will make one for my lathe
That way cover chip tray is far and away the nicest looking one I have ever seen.
Very nice.
Just a point, when I worked in a large machine shop and we had to strip down a lathe for repair we were told not use kerosene on any of the slides as kerosene is a considered abrasive
Right! Better YOU tear apart the apron than letting IT do it to itself. 😂🙂
This does seem to be a really awesome little lathe.
Now an apron that actually taken itself apart though, that could have saved me time :)
You should use those ball oilers and the hand oil pump for proper oiling. That includes the chuck. Make sure that the tip of the pump has the proper size, in order to press down the balls of the oilers. For those who don't know, the oilers are those brass fitting with a bearing ball in the middle. They are everywhere and easy to spot. As you oil it, the oil will push out the debris.
Thankyou once again. I was looking to buy a Myford ML7 restored in South Australia. I thought I would hold off and see how you go with the new lathe. Its always hard when you are trying to balance quality and cost when purchasing a new lathe. I really appreciate your efforts and look forward to the next episode.😊
Love this channel - so great to see one that is so relevant to Australians.
Glad you had the idea to check the gearboxes and apron, my used industrial lathe had oil that looked like yours. But mine is an industrial machine built in 1974 and purchased at auction so expected.
Try putting a magnet at to bottom of the gearbox to trap all that loose metal dust. Lots of equipment has one.
VFD for the motor! Then you can vary continuously within each speed range.
All that grit in the gearbox casings is OBVIOUSLY a handy gear deburring feature, you bloody ingrate.
So thoughtful, those bat-eaters are.
Waiting for the motor upgrade.
Given that mini lathe got 3 hp replacent,this one will be juicy😄
Nice vid mate. Personally I would look at removing the spindle bearings and cleaning them too. Flushing the GB was good, but I doubt the kero cleaned the races properly
That’ll be on the cards in the future but I don’t have the time to tear it apart at the moment. Wouldn’t surprise me if I replace the bearings anyway
I had to do the same on my lathe , china grit is a machine killer ! I have a DRO Setup and I love it .. ENJOYED ..👍👍.. This lathe will be great for making your Kart parts ..
Having watched several vids by Stefan Gotteswinter and Robin Renzetti on some of the Chinese stuff they have bought its pretty obvious that stripping these things down is a MUST before you start doing anything with this stuff.
for the best of both worlds, you could turn that chip catcher into a telescopic way cover like you see on big machines. Make scissors inside to keep the slats evenly spaced. Those covers are expensive to buy and the only reason I can think of is the precision folding needed to get a decent seal around the folds.
The chip pan seems like a big improvement, definitely will be doing something similar to mine.
Offshore equipment needs to be treated like a kit, pre-assembled to help guide the new owner when disassembling, cleaning and deburring.
Cheers
I worked for a company that produces DMG mori lathes , and we used to scrape some surfaces to level for example the support for the ball screw and other components
Neat. I’m guessing that scraping and checking against a surface plate, no?
Go for a quick change tool post. The QC tool post, DRO and Electronic Lead Screen (see Clough42) were the best things I did to my lathe.
Good to see you removed the wear in paste
Nice upgrades to the lathe, thanks for sharing 👍.
I guess this is like running-in a car or bike years ago. You'd take it back at 500 miles so that the fliuds could be changed taking all the filings and burrs with it.
Perhaps another oil change in the near future just to make sure?
I quite like doing a bit of work on a new tool to make it 'mine'. Well done on the handles and covers, a definite upgrade 👍
A good thing about a metal chip pan, is that it also can double as lathebed protection when using a hacksaw i the lathe to "part" stock. (I just have a piece of wood that fits on the bed, when sawing.)
With every video you become more and more TOT-esque
I love it
Yeah, that key requires you to ad a car starting sound!!! :-D Great tips, cheers!
Congratulations on the new lathe I have the AL320G and also had to clean all the gearbox out of sand etc while I was there replaced the spindle bearing with good quality ones. Great video thanks for sharing Cheers.
Is yours also loud?
Yes still loud, using ISO 68 oil thinking of changing to SAE 30 motor oil.@@NelsonJ1
Like you I sealed my AL300 to the chip tray for exactly the same reason. Just a bit jealous of the gearbox, mine has belts! Simple to use, just a bit dirtier.
Right on... other like minded individuals with the magnets.👍🏻
You could add some type of brush in front of the chip tray, brushing away chips from the ways
Just picked up the al-250g myself.
Complete teardown and cleanup this weekend.
God damn... looked like the oil came from a disused KFC.
I was surprised at the amount of grinding compound and swarf in the mechanism. Completely disassembled the compound and cleaned it up as it should be.
Thanks for the tip and keep em coming ;)
add a removable earth magnate to the tray's backsides to help funnel the debris and then remove them when cleaning. nice video, take care.
I guess I was lucky. My lathe needed assembly so I cleaned it as I assembled it. By having it come dissembled, I could lift the bed/headstock more easily.
With a bit of a modification, you could probably ad a classic way cover to you fixed shield. Maybe that will give you the best of both worlds
Be more worried about that 'oil' did to any unshielded bearings and bushings than what it did to the gears. It's Hare and Forbes, the gears were probably marginal to begin with.
When i bought my Bernardo 500 hobby lathe the first thing before use was an oil change and gearbox cleanup. I use iso46 hydraulic oil. Could also use 32 or 68 hydraulic oil. Alot of discussion of proper oil for lathes in internet.
I've just upgraded from a Sieg SC3 to one of these. Will be cleaning it and changing oil before I use it, having seen this. I'll monitor your progress with interest!
Best of luck with your lathe
The proper covers are great if your lathe is in the same room as any grinding work. Keeps that abrasive dust off the ground surfaces
A worthy upgrade would be to install James Clough (Clough42 on CZcams ) electronic lead screw, he has recently updated his boards to be noise immune. It’ll be the second upgrade to my lathe after all the cleaning and deburring you are doing here. 😊
The amount of crud left in the machine is probably the norm for the price point.
Although the lube did its job.
This is why using the correct lubrication is key. The correct gear oil for a splash system will allow all the crud to settle out.
If you used say Automotive oil or pressurized system , there are detergents that will carry the crud to the filter.
Its good you even bothered to check
10:05 I never saw this ball turning method, but thats genius!
Very nice!! Can't wait to see what else you got going on!
Keep em coming!!!!
I feel like one of the first jobs of any lathe should always be to make itself new handles, factory handles are designed for it to be comfortable for everyone to use (or worse comfortable for just the guy who designed it) so unless you've magically got the perfact hand size and shape it's not going to be great. There is no excuse for a lathe to have bad handles
Which oil to use in the lathe is always a bit difficult if it is not specified by the manufacturer, and since the manual for your lathe specifies "Machine oil" we will assume that it was not specified. The viscosity of the oil best suited to a specific gearbox is a big compromise, dependent on a number of factors. I would not go higher than ISO46 in the headstock and thread-cutting gearboxes while using ISO68 in the apron and on the ways and other surfaces. I base this on the peripheral speed of the gears. Interestingly, the part number of the spindle bearings shows it as being an angular contact bearing. There appears to be no oil groove at the top of the spindle head nor any gravity feed holes, so splash lubricated only. Okay, take a look and make sure that every important surface is well splash lubricated with the oil grade you used, don't run it at speed with the top off unless you like "oil painted" walls
You already know the issues with abrasives, but don't forget case hardening. If you work on case-hardened material, the case-hardening can come off as very sharp chips, not good for your lathe.
All machinists need a good file for lathe work, there are special files made for lathes, these are single cut with the angle of the teeth far more oblique. I see Sutton has resurrected the P&N brand and sell files under this name (not made by Sutton or associated companies), including a lathe file. I have not bought one, so I cannot vouch for their quality.
Okay, lathe mods,
The wipers on small (up to 1 metre or so) lathes are usually a joke, I would inspect them and replace them with something more effective, felt is okay but I see a few people using stiff rubber that faces outward from the saddle ways. It is best to use the heaviest oil you can get for the ways, the dust and crud will sit on the upper surface due to surface tension and the wipers will remove the oil with the crud protecting the critical surfaces.
Oilers, these little lathes are missing many oilers, you can use a good lathe to identify where extra ball oilers can be added, it will not hurt. Once you have all the ball oilers in place, you may have to use a Dremel or similar to create grooves for the oil to move along and lubricate the whole sliding surface, also look for oilers where the oil just gets pushed straight out of the slide ways, a complete waste of time.
Judging from your videos, the rest you know.
I would generally avoid Hare & Forbes like the plague. I realise that they supply affordable machinery, but it is poor quality and their service/warranty is worthless. My first lathe was the AL-320G. When I bought it, I asked if there was anything I needed to do before using it. They replied "Our technicians do a comprehensive check and test before you get it so it's ready to go. Nothing more needed." I set it up and turned it on. Noisy but functioning. Tried my first workpiece under a light load and thought "This really is noisier than I expected". Turned out it had been shipped dry.....no lubricant at all. So much for their 'technicians'. I have had several machines from H&F and each one has had serious issues. H&F's response......They're all like that, live with it.
A simple mod I made was to put a shallow chip pan under the bed, made from a cheap oven tray, its just slides out to empty it and is far easier than trying to get under with a brush.
I love that idea
@@artisanmakes your apron looked a lot cleaner than mine. Did you see my latest comment on the new lathe video regarding the thread dial?
the This Old Tony vibe is getting more and more common in edit... and that's great!
Handy video! I actually picked up the AL320G the day before you put up your llast video which was a really fun coincidence, so I'll be following your journey with this one extra keenly
I don't care who makes it, factory oil is a break in oil. It should always be changed. The casting process is dirty by it's very nature. Handle was a cool idea I plan on stealing for mine.
Yay, hacksaw 😊
Get a magnetic drain plug its the same thing we use for engines and transmissions where i work. Works wonderfully
I have the same lathe. 1 day I have clean and change the oil!! Put more than is the level. North box also !
Now I realise mine is a little bit bigger but same thing. Engine is covered already and i have some problems with the guides. Also too much vibrations. 160 mm diam chuck
I don't know if it's been mentioned but the back of your motor being open to chips would be my biggest concern. LOL. Never mind. Watched it through to the end
Stoked on the new lathe maye👍👌🇦🇺
the engine noises was fun :)
Looks like you are getting there with the new toy.
Ah yes, virtually every machine from Harey Forbes needs that flushout of the headstock and gearbox since no-one cares what condition it is in after it leaves the factory as long as it is running and not noisy..
Something you might consider is adding a removable chip tray. I found a decent size Mint (brand name) baking tray at WW that fits under my lathe that is easily removable that collects the majority of the chips.
So, enjoy making chips and pieces with you new toy and I can't wait to see what else you have in the making soon.
You need to get yourself a battery bandsaw. I got one for cutting bits of stock up.
Does a 2" piece of free machining in a couple of minutes.
I got lucky with that stuff... a lift was being decommissioned and stripped out... turns out it had solid round rails and I managed to score about 20m of it for a couple of coffees...
Nice cleanups. I really like your chip pad add on. I may make a modified version for my lathe. Love your videos.
You may want to remove that chip tray if you are running a MT collet chuck as you'll likely crash it into the headstock
I have a AL320G. It came with oil leaks, (every cap screw behind the back gears were loose), the gearbox flush was as bad as yours and my magnet found a 6mm cap screw swimming in the bottom of the gearbox.
Nice. But watch out for that lip when holding a large part in the chuck! The jaws hang down past the chuck diameter.
Fortunately my tray was aluminium so didn’t do any damage … other than to the tray 😢
Nice challenge to ToT with the beginning of the video 😉
Looking forward to the first lathe project. I am curious to know how much trust you have in the dials of that machine. I keep going back to calliper/micrometer measurements when turning tight tolerances. I don't trust my dials.
With dials, approach your measurements from the same direction. ( i.e. if you went too far, do a turn back, and repeat from the "proper" direction.) This way the measurements should be more consistent.