Disassembling the CJ0618 7x12 Lathe, Cleaning, and Troubleshooting
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- I recently bought a new Chinese CJ0618 7x12 Mini Lathe, very similar to the classic Sieg C2 lathe which is sold under different names all over the world. I have a few plans for this lathe, but the main reason for buying it was to finally answer all the questions I get asking whether the Proxxon PD 250/e is worth the money, or if a Chinese lathe is a better deal.
In this video I completely disassemble the lathe and talk about all the problems I come across as I do it. I then clean all the lathe parts, and de-burr any that have rough or sharp edges. The re-assembly will be shown in the next video of the series, as it wasn't possible to include in a single video of reasonable length.
The links below will financially support this channel if you use them to buy stuff:
Machifit Cuniform Gib Quick Change Tool Post on Ali Express - bit.ly/3RR5hcA
Machines:
CJ0618 Benchtop Lathe (Sieg C2 copy) - ebay.us/VpMTGx
Sections:
00:47 Lathe Disassembly
12:51 Cleaning the Lathe Bed
20:36 The Saddle
29:25 The Compound
31:42 The Tailstock
Music:
Easy Lemon by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
Source: incompetech.co...
Artist: incompetech.com/
A few points to emphasize, which may not have been completely clear from the description and voiceover:
1. This lathe is marked as a CJ0618-3B model lathe, but has no other real branding information on it. The design is similar to the Sieg C2, but there is no other connection to Sieg that I know of.
2. The lathe was sold absurdly cheap as part of a batch from an anonymous Chinese eBay trader shipping from Eastern Europe. Based on what I've seen it was probably a factory second, or QA reject being sold off.
3. I am not at all unhappy about getting it in this condition, and have no intention of sending it back. Given the price, and the complete lack of proper branding, or reputation, I expected something at the lower end of the quality range. I did this to find out what the really cheap end of the mini-lathe market is like, and also to learn how to take a machine in poor condition and improve it.
Mine's a PL2102, but other than the paint colour, virtually indistinguishable. Also sold here (in UK) as CJ18. Useful, as almost all the parts are directly interchangeable. Quality depends very much on who you buy from!
It will be interesting to see how cheap it truly is, after you've bought various replacement/upgrade parts.
(hobbyists never count their labour costs, of course - it's called a "pastime" for good reason)
People have a totally biased view of "quality". Even many old school ‘Merican tools needed a lot of fiddling or “fettling” before use. A woodworking hand plane bought at the local hardware store years ago was never fit for work right out of the box, first it is disassembled, and the body is sanded, scraped, and lapped smooth and square to all sides. The blade back is polished to a near mirror finish, and then the cutting edge is honed to hair shaving sharpness. The frog is deburred and the throat and cap iron deburred as well so the blade sits flush all ‘round. Lightly oil everything, put it back together, and NOW you're ready to use it, typically a pleasant couple of hours or so on a weekend for the average Joe back in the day, but ready for a lifetime of good use. ☺
@Barry Manilowa Re: tools, etc. My country has an issue with the perception of excellence, which is to say if an item is not made by and within the continental U.S., it is automatically assumed to be of inferior quality. As a young technician in the ‘60’s, Japan was the whipping boy of choice when it came to bashing, it was derisively called “Jap junk!” and that would win any discussion. Nowadays, if you want super precision- and can AFFORD it, you cannot beat a Japanese product. Moving along, as the decades passed the title of “Junk Purveyor” went to Mexico, S. Korea, Taiwan, and currently China. The U.S. consumer market itself made these countries a major player in the manufactured goods sector; a prime example is the company everyone loves to bash but is always the first stop when shopping for an inexpensive yet sufficiently robust tool: Harbor Freight. I’ve heard it all before, down through the decades, and it still translates to just one central concern: fear of change, and the inability to accept it.
@Daft Old Man I agree Real Bull and Sieg are different, unrelated companies, and it certainly seems that Sieg make better quality machines on average.
well it's a lathe czcams.com/users/postUgkxN9zrzkkhnjUF5PQbuA_B1gYdsfCu9k6z but it wasn't what i would have anticipated. Headstock, tailstock, carriage apron are manufactured from aluminum now not cast iron. The spindle diameter for the bearings is too small allowing for a few play in the spindle so I am using some blue Loctite to take out the play.
Best thing to do with those saddle plates is to ditch the set screw adjustment method, and just shim them. It's fiddly, and takes time, but it's worth the effort. I used some aluminum sheet metal to get close, then fine tuned with kitchen aluminum foil, one strip at a time. As another commenter said, you'd also do well to mic the bed ways, and file/stone the underside to ensure uniform thickness along the entire length of the bed.
You can add a carriage lock very simply, by drilling and counterboring the tailstock-side of the saddle for an M6 socket head cap screw, and making a wide, shallow T-nut to fit the center slot of the bed. Adding locks to the cross-slide and compound is also easy... Just drill and tap an M4x.07 hole between the first and second gib screws.
While you've got the headstock off, you should look into replacing the bearings with 30206 tapered roller bearings (you'll need to face about 2.5mm off the spacer to make everything fit), and upgrading to the metal transmission gears.
Thanks for the ideas! I'm definitely going to do something about the saddle plates, though I watched a really cool project video where HAMMERLAND replaced the plates with tapered gibs for really solid fit. Video title is "Chinese lathe Upgrade". I'm guessing this would make the thickness of the bed ways even more important, so that needs to be sorted.
Carriage lock is on the project list, and I like the sound of your design.
Metal feed gears are on order, but as I wrote in another reply, I haven't settled on a choice of bearing yet, and I'm considering angular contact bearings.
I feel like I am watching This Old Tony and Hand Tool Rescue simultaneously. Thank you!
This video seems to be Stefan Gotteswinter's video.
...but there were no bad puns... LOL
0;s
This video is GOLD! I received my very poorly packaged, and as a result, mildly damaged, lathe yesterday. There were few bolts and screws that were not tight. The saddle and longitudinal mechanism are completely out of adjustment. As I have zero experience with lathes or much machining, I have no idea how to fix this, so your video is exactly what I need. Thank you sir!
You put a lot of time in to this video, thank you for making it and showing the unseen side of that lathe. Much was learned lol
Wish I'd had the foresight to do that with my lathe when it was new. Over the years I've gradually fixed most of the issues, but only recently got around to lapping the cross and compound slides, amazed at the difference that made, and only took a few hours, I thoroughly recommend. The other major improvement was replacing the spindle bearings with taper rollers, and fitting metal hi/lo gears, but turns out it was the bearings on the secondary shaft that really need replacing.
Btw, for lapping the slides I tried various household metal polishing compounds, but eventually gave in and bought a product called 'Timesaver', it's a garnet based abrasive powder that doesn't embed in the soft cast iron, like diamond would. This worked well, mixed with oil thinned with bbq fluid and applied to the mating surfaces with a spatula.
Thanks for the tip about using TImesaver for lapping. Can you describe how lapping the slides improved them? I'm interested to learn more about the benefits, as well as the process.
I definitely intend to replace the bearings, but haven't quite settled on which type to go for.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Sure. If you blue up the cross slide where it bears on the saddle, and run it back and forth a few times, you'll probably find the contact points are small and unevenly distributed. So when you try to adjust the gibs it's difficult to get to the point where there's no slop without it binding up. The result is a stiff slide, and/or a lack of rigidity. You can test this with a dial gauge. If you've ever had difficulty parting off, this probably has a lot to do with it. After lapping, I found mine are easier to adjust, and a lot more rigid than before.
(edit) I chose the medium grade Timesaver compound (green label for ferrous), it's not cheap (in the UK) and I couldn't afford to buy all three grades. A 2 oz jar set me back £23 and I only needed a fraction of that quantity, but I will have other lapping projects soon and it will get used eventually. Household brass polish will also work, but will take longer.
As for bearings, tapered rollers have one big advantage over plain balls, in that they can handle greater axial loads. However there are a couple of drawbacks - you will need different size spacers to get the hi-lo gears to line up correctly (I 3d-printed replacement spacers as needed). And whereas the original ball bearings are sealed, taper rollers aren't. Again - 3d printer to the rescue, I printed covers from TPU (flex filament) that fit tight on the spindle, preventing ingress. Anyway, no regrets on choosing tapered rollers for mine!
Hope this is helpful, and thanks for taking the time to share your experience - hope no one is put off buying a mini lathe, I love mine!
@@fredgenius Thanks for the details! DId you consider hand scraping rather than lapping to improve the contact points? I've read that it's preferred, as the scraped finish retains an oil film better than a lapped flat surface.
For bearings I'm weighing up between tapered rollers, and angular contact bearings. Angular contacts can run faster, but are technically more difficult to install, especially getting the pre-load right. They also have the advantage of being available sealed. The job is simpler for me because this lathe doesn't have hi-lo gears, as you may be able to see when I was disassembling the drive mechanism.
I really hope I'm not putting anyone off, but I do aim to help people understand what to look out for at the cheaper end of the market.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Yes, I did think about about scraping, but although I've got the tools and watched others scraping, I've never actually tried. Very easy to take metal away, very hard to put it back (as my old teacher often said).
@Flat Bastard Engineering Channel That would definitely be my inclination, but I was interested to hear Fred's reasons for choosing to lap rather than scrape.
I am so glad I purchased my lathe directly from Sieg many many many years ago.
Before the poorly wired chuck guards. Mine came completely drowned in red shipping grease, but not a single spec of grime, dust or grit anywhere on it. It must have been completely broken down and cleaned before being drowned in shipping grease and reassembled. I guess this was done due to boat/container freight shipping.
Lovely work using sound effects rather than library music. I can see just how much you put into this video so thank you for the effort in making it.
Thanks! Comments like this make the effort totally worth it.
Glad to see you accepting the project with an open mind... Sure, it is a bummer, that once a dinky machine like this needs so much dang work, but, if the manufactures/assemblers were to do all this, the machine would cost an additional $2500 over the original cost... I spent a year redoing my mini lathe and mill, with total re-machining, re-flame hardening the ways (induction hardened actually) and surface grinding of all mating contact points, soft heated the main casting(the bed ways) and saturated by dunking in a drum a few times in oil, I planned for various type of roller/ball/thrust bearings at every location that has friction.motion. redesigned the motor mounting to something more adjustable and secure with ease... and all though, towards the end on my venture in rebuilding them seemed to just drag on... once done, I love my little machines, and never have any issues holding tolerance of (0.0005") all day long... so much so, that jobs come my way (just silly small jobs) that somebody needs a bushing or something to be spot on, they bring it to me, mind you, they own machine shops with with $10million worth of machines, LOL... but is cheaper and faster to just drive over to me, and have me knock out the parts.... I feel kinda bad, as one of the smaller shops went and purchased one of these little machines to add to his own shop, not fully understanding what all I had done to get my units to the higher grade capability and were so disappointed in their purchase... so, I recommended that he turn that into a program for one of his employees to do a complete tear down and clean up, re-machine and straighten up on all 3 plain's / axis and surface grind etc... as kinda a apprenticeship type thing.... now, his shop has a shipping pallet of these that have been redone to a higher standard by his employees.. There is no consistency with what one employee does compared to another.. I think I still have videos of what I did some 15 to 20 years ago with my little machines on my channel that I do not upload to anymore... LOL
I have had several people offer to buy mine, and even after telling them a seriously over inflated price (due to not wanting to sell them, as I don't think I have it in me to replicate what all I did, allot of work and time.) The truing up of all the moving parts, to allow the smooth operation, I think is what they are after in mine.. but, so worth it, not having to hassle with all the bugs that come poorly designed into the units.. but with a wee bit of effort and time, and not much money, one can build one heck of extremely finely tuned machine.. Again, I am glad to see somebody else taking the time to show the world that the rebuilding of these little machines is just as fun and part of it, and making parts for different projects. I enjoyed watching your video, look forward to part 2 and possibly 3.
That sounds like quite an achievement, and I can imagine why you have no interest in selling the machine at any price. Once you've put that much of yourself into something, it's important to keep it. I don't think I'll ever match the standard of completeness of work you describe, but I'm certainly planning on making a series of these videos, covering various improvements, as long as people enjoy watching them.
Thanks for posting such a comprehensive post about your work. I hope it'll help others understand why working on machines like this can be so worthwhile.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Yup, just enjoy the building process... Brother.
Great service this man does for people like me. I am disable and retired but I do like making models. I have this lathe and he has been a great help for me. Great service. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to share the disassembly. Along the way there must have been many moments where you were left in wonder as to what was going through the minds of those who designed the lathe...
I was honestly more bothered by why the quality inspectors allowed it out of the door. Glad you enjoyed watching, despite the problems.
I bought my mini lathe from Amadeal and it came with loads of extras quite cheap. I bought it to teach myself about lathes and machining. I knew it would be a labour of love and indeed I managed to grenade the gearbox in the first week. I stripped it as you have (Wish I'd had an ultrasonic cleaner!) and rebuilt it with steel gears and angular contact bearings. I lapped the slideways together as I don't have diamond ground stones but eventually I managed to get it to work amazingly accurately - just in time for the delivery of my 17" lathe! It was very valuable as I have not broken anything on the big lathe and have learned a lot from this little machine without any huge outlay. Great video.
Sounds like a great example of why this kind of learning experience is worthwhile. Thanks for posting.
I am fond of turnery and I do not have time to access courses on it. It is these videos that have helped me to understand much more about the subject and they have been indispensable for me to learn how to handle these hobby lathes. I am infinitely grateful that these kinds of instructional videos exist and that someone takes the time and work to make them so selflessly by sharing their knowledge. Thanks a lot.-
I’ve already successfully completed a few ‘good enough’ projects on my mini lathe. However, this video has inspired me to make my next project the lathe itself! Thanks for putting the time into these encouraging (for novices like me) videos
An interesting project that "feels" like what I went through tearing down, cleaning, deburring, and reassembling my minimill!
This video set looks as if it should be a "go to" for newcomers!
Thanks for watching. How do you feel about the mini mill now you've done the work? Is the end result worth the extra effort you put in, on top of the purchase cost?
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I purchased mine "second hand." It had been used mostly on wood. It had never been cleaned and still had the factory "stuff" on most surfaces. So in addition to cleaning I also replaced the gears with belt drive, and changed out the metric X-Y table traverse screws with Imperial. For learning I think its been worth it. Total costs so far are less than one new. And! I know where all the parts are, their condition, and how to best to tear down and clean in the future.
I can't tell you how helpful this is. I'm rebuilding an old abused Chinese 7x10 unit now and this and the following videos answered all my questions on which parts are safe to disassemble and how to lubricate!
Wow, that is the most brutal factory workmanship I have seen... great job on the rebuild!
Mini-lathe-shaped-object!
Patience has been rewarded. So interesting to watch and compare your lathe with my equivalent Warco Super Mini lathe, also made by Real Bull in China. An assembled kit of parts which demand disassembly, adjustment, repair and rebuilding. So looking forward to the next video.
Thanks Mr Carpathian, and thanks for all your helpful correspondance via Instagram while I was working on this project. It really helped me get a better perspective on this type of lathe.
Thank you for an interesting video, appreciate your time filming, editing, creating :)
Thanks! I appreciate hearing that the work I put into improving my video skills is paying off. :)
Thank you I appreciate the time and effort you put into this , looking forward to the rebuild and your final thoughts as to whether the end machine was worth all the effort.
Glad to see this getting torn down.
I’ll be interested to see how it turns out.
Thanks! The assembly video should be ready in a few weeks, after which I'll record some more videos about specific improement projects.
Starting at 4:27: This rattle aggravated me for a long time. But recently I realized that if you turn the knurled handle it tightens everything and the play is eliminated, the system become stable and I suspect that this undocumented feature is the key. Then you have to release it when you reverse or engage the other direction, and re-tighten it.
Hope this can help others.
A very good video, I have just ordered a TAISHI CJ0618 having looked at many very similar lathes. I suspect a lot of these come from the same factory, I now have a very good idea what to look out for and what I am in for should it need it.
Many thanks for the great detail I look forward to your next video
You're welcome. I'm glad not everyone is put off buying this type of lathe, as that was absolutely not my intention with these videos.
Best of luck with your new machine. I'm sure no matter what condition it arrives in that it will be a fun journey.
That was a most enlightening voyage of discovery. I was getting nervous as your were pulling part after part off and just bundling them all together. Unless I had an exploded view of the assembly there is no way most of us could remember what went where. You did very well. Brave project. looking forward to the next instalment!
Just started watching your videos so some of my comments are likely out of date.
1) I own one of the 7x14's, purchased through Harbor Freight in U.S. I have done many upgrades and modifications to it and it is a great little lathe as long as you don't try to overdo what it can do.
2) This has to be the worst example of one of these types of lathes I have ever seen and I believe you are spot on with your assessment that these were likely rejects that were "pulled out of the trash bin" so to say, or there is a very unethical manufacturer in China making these (I believe they have been open art for some time).
3) It appears you knew what you were likely to be getting and as I found with my lathe, half the fun is going through the lathe and improving it. You will certainly have lots of opportunity for that. :)
4) Very good quality video and looking forward to watching more of them.
Hi Ron, yes, you're right that the lathe I got is essentially the lathe I expected at the price I paid. Welcome to the channel, and thanks for the comments.
I'm looking forward to the assembly. Thanks for making this video, I'll be sure to refer back to it when I finally get my own lathe.
Wish I had seen this back when I got my little Central Machine lathe. I took it clear apart and sure missed some areas you covered. I see some differences in in my machine. Replaced the bearings in the headstock with angular contact bearings but took some effort to get them preloaded right. Replaced the plastic gears in the headstock for high and low range with metal and that was a mistake as what you buy has a lot of backlash with no way to correct and they are noisier. Did install a tach. Shield on the apron gears. Button head screws on the handwheel makes it a little easier with more room. I imagine you know of all the modifications so will be interesting to see your reassembly. My lead screw bracket has no way of lubrication so need to change that. My headstock only has three mounting screws so they missed drilling one!!!
I have a shield on the apron gears on my project list, among many others. What technique did you use to get the bearing pre-load right in the end?
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe To begin with I had to make a spacer that would go on before the double nuts otherwise you run out of threads to pull the main shaft back. I couldn't find good data on how much to load the bearing set so did go by seat of pants. You get a pretty good idea when you make some cuts and get zero movement. I got sealed unit so I do not have to worry about lube like those using open taper bearings.
@@gvet47 Thanks for the tips. The fact that angular contact bearings are available sealed is the main reason I'd like to try them out, but they are more difficult to get right, so I've got some data sheet reading to do.
I like the old Y fronts being used to clean everything. Proper old school!
Thank you for showing your tear down. I have been holding off purchasing a mini lathe because I was very unsure of the quality and resulting repairs needed for a good turn.
Thank you!
Nice to see you back Alistair. What you keep calling "screws" are in fact "bolts". Looking forward to this series, keep them coming :)
It's only a bolt if it has a nut on the far side.
I’m a retired machinist and we called then screws.
The distinction is not clear cut, but the principle of a bolt being fitted to a through-hole and paired with a nut versus a screw mating with a threaded hole is one that can be traced to USA import tariffs, which considered screws to be more valuable parts with finer tolerances.
Alternative distinctions exist:
Bolts should have a smooth shoulder (for mating with a through-hole) versus screws being threaded along the length.
Bolts heads are externally driven (with a spanner) versus screws that have the tool interface cut into the head.
Tomayto-tomahto.
@@EmyrDerfel While I was digging I found some people who think that the US government got their definition from Machinery's Handbook, and others who think it was the other way around.
I didn't think it was worth searching through historic editions of MH to find out which edition that definition first appeared in. :)
I am an aerospace engineer and most of our fasteners have a plain shank and are called bolts. To us a screw is fully threaded.
Electrical grounding on a painted part, what could go wrong...?
Saw that too. Well at least the screw wasn't painted!
Yep, I'll definitely be stripping down a proper contact area during re-assembly. No-one wants electric hum on their CZcams audio recording. ;)
I was surprised there was a ground at all. So many import items have the ground just cut off in the cord.
Not as critical, but my electric guitar was buzzing when I got it. Removed the cover and found that the grounding wire had been taped on with sticky tape!
@@jrkorman Same
Mic the bed ways. If it's anything like mine, it varies significantly in thickness. If you want the carriage to actually be rigid and consistent, it'll need to be a consistent thickness and parallel to the top of the bed.
I think it also needs a carriage lock.
Thanks for the tip! The Aussie Shed posted a lot of videos about improving a similar lathe, and they put a lot of effort into fixing exactly this problem. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.
This video, and the next, are going to be required watching when I get around to ordering one of these starter lathes.
I think you would end up a lot happier with a higher quality lathe as a starter machine. Probably a larger one also. This man obviously has enough experience to do a respectable job of fixing obvious issues. What can't be seen, so far, is how far off the bed and other components are. Even if the casting was properly ground to start with it may have moved as it aged. Cast iron can move, a lot!
Nice video, sir. I appreciate you buying the cheapest (worst) so that whatever anyone else finds will already have been dealt with in your video. (No sarcasm - or not much - and very gentle at that).
Thank You for an excellent video.
This is the way to go with any el cheapo chinese machinery: dismantle and fix manufacturing defects before use!
Requires some knowledge and skills anyhow.
Special thanks for subtitles, good for us non-english speakers.
I'm no expert - I only bought a C2 last year, but it does has the characteristic red paint of a Sieg so the parts looks to have originated there. My guess is that someone buys the reject parts as scrap metal but then makes lathes out of them.
A very useful video - if you can make that thing work then I can definitely get my genuine C2 in much better shape with a bit of time and learning!
Good job there
Yes I have a cj18a which is pretty similar when I bought it to yours. But it is nothing like the original now. I changed the bearings in the Head-stock for angular contact bearings, did away with the high and low gear in the head-stock (though I had previously changed them for metal gears rather then plastic gears) Installed all metal change gears except for the nylon tumbler gears which are sacraficial gears in my opinion and most of the time thes will strip if there is a problem before further damage can be caused. and they are cheap to replace. I also I dumped the supposedly 550W motor (Not marked in any way and suspect it is not a 550W motor) for a 750w 3 phase motor and a VFD.
Incidentally Tim Nummy did a good video on the existing motor mounting on these machines and the early Steve Jordan video's are really good for improvements on these machines to. Steve Jordan in particular inspired me and as I gained confidence I found I was doing mods I would never have believed it would be possible to do. I made my own quick change tool post and a goodly number of tool holders as well
I have to say straight out of the box these machines are rubbish. but if you are prepared to put the time and work into they they can be very good and useful machines,.
You are certainly doing a thorough job with it :) look forward to you next one. Subscribed.
I've had a mini late for a few years now, only done a few small projects on it. I'm always interested in seeing more people's take on them, improvements, and replacement parts.
Glad you found this video interesting.
Boy that lathe looks to be a real turkey! It could have been a 'Frankenstein' machine cobbled together with all of the bad bits from different machines. I say that because my first lathe was of a similar type which I bought from Amadeal and it was several orders of magnitude better than this one. In general the Chinese lathes seem to be fundamentally sound in build but quite often are assembled very slap-dash. Looking forward to seeing what you manage to get when you re-assemble it.
I think it's like with so much else, you get what you pay for. Sometimes the cost and quality balance is a bit better and sometimes it's worse. This time it seems the price / quality isn't quite up to parity. There are Chinese manufacturers that can and does produce quality products, but then they tend to cost more than what we in the west are used to pay for Chinese products. So a lot of the products we see are cheap crap, because that's what we pay for. This lathe seems to be made from parts that failed inspection but were still somewhat usable. The assembly does suffer from shortcuts being taken to make it cheap and quick to assemble. The bent rods securing the motor is something I guess happened during shipping. At assembly it was probably working, but a few bumps during shipping took care of that.
I've seen several examples of machines like this. Sometimes, rarely, you can end up with a decent machine. Byt that I mean a machine that does what it's supposed to with minimal problems, but still lacking the feel of quality you get from a really good machine. But most of the time they are frustrating and tend to take a lot of time and effort to get them working the way they should.
Your Frankenstein theory sounds very plausible.
When you put the lathe back together use button head screws to secure the compound and cross slide crank type handles as it gives more room to operate the handles.
Great tip, thanks!
I've just bought a used mini lathe, lucky for me they previous owner had carried out a the major mods. This video is a real pleasure to watch.
also, for the SC2, I fill in the bed with epoxy mixed granite. Noticeably improves rigidity and stability.
Glad to see this video.
I have a Clarke CL300M. and it is more expensive than other identical ones ,
and this video clearly shows why.
As it shows here , cheaper mini lathes that has failed there high price quality check are cheaper.
And so shops that have them branded and to be top quality made, Come at a higher price.
Shops like machine mart don't want equipment/tools coming back faulty giving bad reputation.
Anyways mine works a treat for the price I paid. and so if you choose the cheaper option then study this video as it gives a good insight of the cheap Chinese mini lathe.
I went into Machine Mart and had a look at their Clarke CL300M, but sadly I couldn't arrange for the staff to be distracted long enough to get it fully disassembled for inspection. I did see enough to know that it's a good deal better. I also managed to get to Harbour Freight on my last US trip before the Pandemic, and checked out the Sieg C2s they have. Also much better condition than the one I got here.
Ayyy good to see such an in depth video on cleaning up these chinese lathes, love all your projects, have been watching for a while, always clearly spoken and explained, and love the lego astronaut shots as always, hope this lathe comes out as good as I think it will once you have worked your magic on it :) thanks for all the hard work!
Here you are making a poor lathe into what it could only hope to be. Very very good. Thank you for this!
Very interesting video and a worthwhile effort by yourself and warns me not to purchase unless I am desperate and cannot afford something better you have done a great service by producing this video and l am looking forward to new developments
Very nicely done sir. Looks very much like many of the tools I've bought, similarly, and many have lived thirty years and more, after reassembly, with lock rings, snap rings, locktite and such. I've seen a good many of these lathes, and wanted to see one apart. Thank you for a very well orated video, and clear show of the disassembly.
Man I am glad I decided to keep my old unimat lathe for medium duty in my watch shop my light duty lathe is an old peerless watchmakers lathe I'm afraid I would have been really disappointed after seeing those plastic gears, still it's nice to see someone bring to life and useability this machine. Thanks
Excellent. I look forward to the rebuild and alignment 👍
Thanks! Hopefully the assembly won't be too long, though I'll probably have to do the alignment work in a later video.
These problems are universally characteristic of all the cheap Chinese lathes I've seen online. It would almost be worthwhile for the lathe to ship as parts rather than assembled. That would simplify disassembly, cleaning, adjustment, and reassembly. And it would undoubtedly save the manufacturer at least $2 in labor to assemble it.
Quality control at its finest!!! More paint...with a touch of who cares. You did a great job 😀😀..Bob
I also bought a lathe a few years ago and finally I took it completely apart to fit new roller bearings and also cut the play between the movable parts everywhere and now gradually I'm putting this back together I'm glad to see your work 😀you're just using the wrong screwdriver this is one for wood screws 🤗and not metal screws hihi 😂👍
The stud on top of the compound for the toolpost will also come off. You can double-nut it and after some force will unscrew right out.
That's exacyly what I did! Check out my Machifit toolpost review video for proof! Thanks for the tip.
thank you, I bought an america vintage mini lathe and your video shed lots of light on the correct way to find out its problems
As a no experience hobbyist, this video is terrifying. It’s driving me to want to spend more on something that won’t hurt me. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 for the education.
I hope this video gives people a sense of what they need to look out for, and it should still be possible to buy a cheap lathe with confidence, but you do need to be able to check it out before you buy.
Disassembled everything before starting my cheap Chinese lathe. Fortunately, I adjusted the motor mounts and drive belt before any damage could be done. Also, found all the loose and missing screws before they had a chance to break teeth on the gears. It's also a good idea to check soldering points on the control board before powering the lathe. Quality control of these lathes sucks, so inspect and adjust your lathe before starting it. Cheers
Thank you for the video, it was very informative. Also, I don’t mind longer time on your videos your channel has great content.
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Long videos are hard work, but allow me to go into the subject more thoroughly, so it's useful to know that vidoes this length are still watchable.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I watch 2 and half hour vaping streams, so this was actually on the short side. Please keep up the thorough job. Splitting them up into parts would be okay also but if we work with a lathe, we are highly likely to spend more time on our projects than the lenth of these vids.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Long videos also do the subject far more justice. Add me to the voices saying "Well done, keep right on with the long videos". Thanks for doing that work, and thanks for this video in particular; I've been eyeing a Central Machinery lathe, and have a far better idea of what to look out for now, thanks to you.
I don't think you need to yearn after precision ground flat stones.
One of the few times when physics is on your side is when knocking burrs and dings off a flat surface.
Woodworkers sometimes try to make the bottom of a handplane flat by rubbing it on SiC paper, fixed on a flat support.
This starts off going quite fast - the high spots come off quickly.
But as the handplane becomes flat, the surface area in contact goes UP and the cutting pressure goes DOWN.
As you've probably found, a flat abrasive against a flat material cuts very poorly due to low cutting pressure.
The upshot is ...
... you can simply knock burrs and dings off a flat surface without worrying about doing any substantial harm to the flat surface.
I know they weren't really needed for this job, but that won't stop me from yearning after them.
I clean dirty shotguns actions pretty often, and I use a stiff acrylic brush to first /move/ the crud out of the hard to reach areas, then either flush it or wipe it, before covering in "moli" grease or gun oil (depending on the part).
Thanks for the acrylic brush tip. It's always great to learn new ways of cleaning up metal, without damaging the finish under the dirt.
Great video, just subscribed and I'm eager to watch the next one, as I'm thinking of getting one of these cheap mini lathes.
Thanks for your time!
Hopefully I've given you an idea of what to look out for, and avoid, when you are making your buying choice. Best of luck. It's a great hobby, and well worth getting into.
It's nice to see you back Alistair & nice summary of what you've found with this unit.
We both know the Proxxon Lathe isn't perfect, so curious where you'd place Proxxon's build quality compared to this?
I'm looking forward to the next instalment.
regards Colin
Right now my opinion is that the Proxxon scores way higher in terms of quality, and also value for money even at the much higher price. However I'm planning to do a bunch more work before I discuss my final conclusions.
Glad you enjoyed it!
A.
Nicely done video. You no doubt know that all the slideways would greatly benefit in function and longevity if properly scraped for oil retention. All the metrology and scraping technique would be an enormous gain for your skill set. It would also add a month to the project. Maybe try it on just the compound and see what you think. Look forward to next steps.
I'm definitely planning to scrape at least one of slides, as a learning exercise. A lot to learn before I can even start on that though. Thanks for the encouragement.
i also have a small chinese lathe like yours, but its special from "Paulimot" in Germany, which have them produced to their needs, which is really nice! They install a 750W Motor in germany and offer a huge variety of accessoires in their shop near my hometown!
Cool, I'll add that name to the list of Chinese lathe suppliers that come recommended.
My Chinese Minilathe looks nothing like as nasty as that one. Presumably you paid a couple of hundred quid for it. My paint is perfect, no touch up or paint on fixings or on machined surfaces, and I needed to remove some grinding grit with WD40. Mine needed some adjustment on the gibs, but otherwise it was perfectly usable out the crate. Also my chuck has a cover plate on the rear, which yours is missing. I did need to clear the same grit from the chuck scroll, but nothing a few minutes with WD40 and a clean cloth couldn't sort. My motor is also secured with M8 bolts, and the belt was at the correct tension, without bent bolts.
I paid £420 for mine, from a company selling on Amazon. For that money, I was more then happy to do a little PPM on it before I used it. With these it pays to shop about, and understand that a bit of PPM is needed before using it. ;)
I paid about £330 for this one, which honestly probably isn't enough of a discount to be worth it, given the problems. However for my purposes, I was looking for a learning exercise, and a machine for tinkering and experimentation, so I'm happy with the way this has panned out.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe
If you're after a project and video subject, then you got that.
I think these lathes can be good, once a little work is carried out on them.
If they're considered a lathe kit, which needs some final finishing, but has been assembled for easy of transportation, then you won't be disappointed.
I like mine, and am continuing to make improvements, as and when I feel it's necessary.
I fitted angular contact head stock bearings to mine, which made a large difference.
I've also fitted the same Machifit quick change tool post you reviewed. ;)
Keep the video's coming.
I bought one just like this for 420$. It works quite well for me. I did have to shim the headstock but can now turn within a thou over 6 inches.
Your video's are Amazing!!! I own a Harbor Freight 7 X 10 Mini Lathe. I had no idea how complex it really is or what improvements I can do to it. Thank you Very Much for sharing your knowledge.
Extremely interesting. Very well paced & narrated.
Loved the detail you went into👍🏼
Leave the splash guard. Use a centering microscope turned periscope to film the cutting area from rear POV.
I also have the identical machine you have, let me say yours is nice compared to what I have. I took mine all apart many times trying to get the ghosts out the machine.I did order all metal gears I think from banggood for this model but they don't fit to tight to go on so the journey continues, and yes your videos are always clear with excellent communication and worth the wait. I do have a request I need to figure out the belts ,pulleys, ect ect to get rid of the crappy plastic belt.
Over the years I have probably done the same/similar process to 8 ~10 of these. The guys would bring them in for me at work to fettle into a usable shape prior to use. They have got worse over the years though. I always found that the lead screws were also poorly deburred and would benefit from the removal of sharp edges from the threads.
Keep your eves open for center height issues and bed parallelism. I have had one that took quite a bit of rework to get nice and true along the length. The Beds are not ground but finished with a linisher belt.
Once set up properly they will hold a repeatable size with a decent spindle as long as a bit of care is taken. With s bit of patients you can mark out the cross slide angles on the rear of the turret and a couple of little mods I did to mine was to include an alignment pin to set 0 and +- 45 deg along with a cheap veneer scale on the cross slide and carriage a bit like this tiny.cc/cvj2jz
That's a useful tip, I didn't think to check the lead screws for burrs. I'll take a look.
Glad to see you back at it!
Thanks for your patience! This video took a while to do well, and I wanted to make sure I didn't rush it, and make an inferior videos. I hope it was worth it. :)
Excellent presentation, so refreshing to have a straightforward informative style, I recently acquired what I think is a rebadged Winfield lathe circa 1920's - Puzzled by the plethora of extra cogs I have! Thank you for a great channel, subscribed.
This latest batch of mini lathes comes from a number of Non-Sieg companies, and has a brand new batch of issues, but it should still be thought of as a kit of that comes pre-assembled for ease of identification but requires a full disassembly/reassembly before use.
I'm pretty sure this lathe was originally made by Real Bull Machine. en.realbull-machine.cn/
Very Theroux demonstration. Makes me wonder if this machine is even worth considering. Thank you very much for this take down demo.
My god, these things really are thrown together.,cheap for a reason. Good luck with the re-build.
Exactly, this video is a real eye opener.
@ss The only thing the Chinese mini lathes have going for them is their size, (tabletop) I'm currently looking a for used an old British lathe, Myford etc but they are all a little too big for my garage/workshop.
@ss I hadn't but I think I will. Thanks for the suggestions ss
I had a mini-lathe that bought from Cummings about 14 years ago. The quality was 10x better than this one, but the price was also a lot more. I assume these lathes are sold at different levels of build quality just like anything else from China.
Looks like maybe it was put together by trainees in the factory and flogged off cheap
Wow! They do offer such great service! You dont even need to break it yourself, they do it for you in the factory! So nice!
Thank you very much. This will certainly help me get my lathe disassembled and re-worked.
Looking forward to the much improved version, some chronic production short cuts used in the manufacture.
If I may suggest, White Sport/Mineral spirit is an alternative to using WD 40 when cleaning is only required, but WD 40 is useful on small projects.
Thanks for sharing.
My main reason for using WD-40 is that it leaves a trace of heavier oils as a film, which forms a protective coating. White Spirit evaporates completely, which is great for leaving a residue-free surface, but can lead to rust. Thanks for watching!
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Good point, for light soiling, and short term storage WD 40 is perfect here, White Spirit can be reused, after the contaminants have settled to the bottom, but messy to store. I do use Jizer for heavy soiling, even cleaning after with water, it leaves a light anti corrosion residue.
I've recently started to use 3 in 1 oil spray, and in oil form, a little cheaper than WD40.
Love the Lego helpers.
Very nice work. Hope to see the difference on work quality after cleaning
Thanks! There are too obvious immediate improvements. Firstly everything about the lathe is more rigid, from the motor mount to the saddle and the tailstock. Secondly all the movement is much smoother now there isn't as much grit between the sliding surfaces.
I am looking for a Mini lathe. I take a look to Proxxon lathe and now grizzly lathes and others. This is a great information.....tks for sharing it.
Thank you for making a great video. I'm a recent owner of the sc2 from Axminster. Definitely seems better quality than this one, but does need slight attention deburring the bed.
A huge thank you from Kent UK.
Great video once again, Editing and content. And perfectly timed I've just recently gotten frustrated with my mini lathe and I'm planning on a full tear down and some improvements. Where did you purchase those bench stones?
This is the kind of content that made youtube great. Well done! This was very helpfull.
Great video very helpful and has helped me make my mind up and purchase one of these, I make brass jewelry so precision isn't a priority but turning, cutting and polishing is so this little machine would be ideal.
Hi AWVSL. Really useful video - and not just for this small lathe. Many of the larger ones are constructed in much the same way. Mine had some real horrors, fuse in the neutral lead (argh!), no heat sink on the electronics. I suspect the motor mount studs on this one got bent in shipping - not strong enough as you said and the motor mass did them in when the lathe was bounced around. BobUK
I think the motor mount washers actually bent more than the studs, though once there was some slop, I guess the shipping movement made both bend even worse, exactly as you say.
This poor thing looks like it was milled with a dull rusty beaver. I thought my Harbor Freight version was about as grungy as it could get. I was wrong.
Thanks for the video. Very thorough. I just got my mini lathe and I have been planning to do this so I can modify a few things.
Originally I planned on purchasing a small hobby lathe, although, not the cheapest one I could find, after seeing your video I was looking more at an Axminster lathe at about £2k, but even that has its shortcomings, now looking at a UK made gear head lathe for £4k
I'm intrigued! Tell me more about this UK made gear head lathe?
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe hi there chap.
It is made by Warco in UK. Rather than having ball bearings it appears to have axial load bearings, also it can cut metric and imperial threads without having to take all the change gears off, which invariably have burrs all over them, that is if you can get metal gears in the first place, I still have to go to the factory to suss them out.
Dish soap.and warm water is very effective at cleaning parts likr this. This soap breaks down the oils and allows grit to be washed away. It's very difficult to remove all abrasive and grit with solvents alone.
Any tips for preventing corrosion after cleaning? The upside of using a bycicle chain degreaser is that it contains ingredients to help prevent corrosion. Cast iron can start to rust very quickly, as I saw while I was making the video, when the paint stripping gel started turning rusty colour in seconds.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe just coat any parts in light oil after washing. I was more referring to the larger parts that you were cleaning with wd40. The ultrasonic cleaner is pretty effective.
Wow that is so much worse than mine which had similar beginnings. Thanks for the videos!
Thanks! I get the feeling that this is about as bad as new lathes for sale come, and I'm 99% sure it was a quality control reject that was never intended for sale. I sincerely hope that most cheap mini lathes arrive in better condition than this one did.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Seems like you drew the short straw on this one! Looking forward to the reassembly.
Mine arrived in similar condition, one exciting discover was the wiring to the chuck guard had rubbed against the corner little sheet metal channel they supply for it and was in electrical contact to the metalwork. Combined with the fact that mine had a Euro plug and a cheap death-dapter supplied with no earth connection, things could have got quite exciting!
@@gnu2000 Did you find the electrical short by blowing a fuse, or did you catch it before that happened? My lathe also came with a Euro plug (which I expected), and the substandard UK adapter was totally smashed to pieces during shipping, because it was dropped loose into the box. Fortunately the eBay vendor agreed to refund me the cost of a new adapter.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe First thing I did was chop the Euro plug and put a standard UK one on. It actually ran once or twice before it tripped out the garage - after some searching I found the short where the wires are pulled tight at the bottom of that corner bracket - it was only a tiny nick in the insulation at that point, but enough to trip the RCD (thankfully!).
They must throw them around at the factory, with mine it was the chuck guard switch that was smashed to pieces!
Very thoughtfully presented with good details, particularly for those new to the mini, Well Done! Your Videography is most appreciated too! The concept of tearing down a new tool is foreign to some but the value in learning the details and nuances of the tool/machine is priceless in my book and sets the stage for improvements. I can tear mine down to the ground and back in about 2hrs now depending on alignment issues which get better with time. And there are some parts of the mini that are a constant vigil, like the Gibs! I also appreciate your experiment with possibly the worst of them and don't think it will be much worse than the better of them, but alignment will tell more. Mini's are an adventure in many ways. Fun, educational, inspired creativity, and surprising as to what can be done with them...and can't. Sub'd and looking forward to more of your enjoyable video's and perspectives. Thanks Much! PJ
Thanks for your generous compliments. :)
I'm really enjoying learning about both machines and also about videography. Any advice to offer on how to improve the gibs? I've considered a number of options, including machine it to take tapered gibs.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I've consider tapered gibs too but only have limited access to a mill and it is a precarious setup, IMHO. After much research and talking to others including machinist I will probably make the same shape but from 01 (silver steel) unhardened, when I get my new 14" bed, extended cross slide and the compound rest all matched and scraped. The other thing to consider is the m4 screw and either adding 2 more although mine are poorly threaded (sloppy Class -1) ;-). Probably better to go with 5 dog point set screw, m5's properly threaded rather than conical, then slightly bore the gib to match the the dog point. For now they are cheap to have a stock on hand and lap them up to about 800 wet and dry.
@@pjhalchemy Sounds like a sound way to go. The incorrect detent spacing, and the fact that the holes aren't shaped to ensure the gib is stable does bother me. I've had different advice from different people though, with some suggesting that conical pointed screws in conical holes will be best, but the holes must be angled to meet the screw directly to hold it well. Dog point screws into matching holes sounds like it could work well, but getting the holes in just the right place might be difficult.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe You can either use a transfer punch with the gib clamped to the cross slide or compound or in place assembled. Or use a quality conical set screw to mark them. Then it's just a matter of clamping the gib in mill/DP vice with the bottom flat on one of the vice face, starting with a small center or tiny drill and go in lightly, then enlarge to match the dog point. Just thoughts, lots of ways to accomplish it. Personally I would start with a new set of gibs but because they are symmetrical you could flip it 180° and use the other side...but be sure to hone it. Little Machine shop has brass ones now but are a bit spendy. Stock ones are about $15...More thoughts.
@@pjhalchemy I like the idea of making a custom hardened point conical set screw, specifically to aid with marking these holes.
Great video! I agree with your idea of it being a QA reject. Ive a 7x14 version and is virtually the same as that but branded Amadeal and it seems to have a much better finish (Not perfect by any means but is pretty good). Also when these machines are set up right they can do some pretty good and accurate work, mine consistently hits dead on to a thou
Excellent video very well produced.
Thanks, that means a lot. Your "Worm & Worm Wheel Free Hobbing Method" was one of my earliest inspiration to buy a lathe, so thanks for making that and sparking an idea. :)
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe I have a friend who rebuilt a similar small Chinese lathe treating the lathe as a kit if parts and reworking like you are doing can result in a very nice lathe.
Очень качественное и красивое видео. Смотреть - одно наслаждение. Интересно посмотреть продолжение, что получилось в итоге.
Great video! This work should pay off. The mini lathe can be a good little tool when it is tuned up. You may want to replace the hex socket cap head bolts that secure the cross-slide and compound hand wheels with hex socket button head bolts. Your knuckles will thank you. Chris
Thankyou Chris! I wouldn't be able to make videos as well as I can if not for your contribution to Emma's prize. It sounds like I need to add improving the hand wheels to the project list.
Just stumbled across your channel now mate and I'm grateful...thank you for your excellent content.
Your old school buddy, the real McCoy. 👍👍
This video was a little weird... it felt like it was being played at a lower frame rate the whole time?
Almost all the footage in this video is slightly sped up, and some is sped up quite a lot. At original speed it would have been over an hour long, and pretty slow paced.
Apologies in advance since I've spend the last week or so on a This Old Tony binge, having given in to the cross-pollination of in-jokes and references between TOT and Bad Obsession Motorsport (Project Binky etc), Colin Furze, AvE, Simone Giertz, Adam Savage et al. I recognise that TOT and Bad Obsession Motorsport both have at least 6 years of experience as CZcamsrs under their belts, but I hope my criticism can be received as supportive rather than dissuasive...
The framerate seemed uneven, as if the camera was struggling to maintain exposure at the set framerate. Maybe more lighting would help?
Increasing the light levels would also allow the camera to achieve a greater depth of field, which is handy when there are multiple planes in frame for the focusing algorithm to choose from. There was one shot early on looking at the drive belt where the focus had ended up on the floor tiles in the background.
My last criticism was that in close shots, the part was often drifting out of frame, and your hand often came between the part and the lens. It might help to set the camera further away, if the camera has optical zoom and there is enough light to compensate for the effect of zoom on the light reaching the sensor.
@@EmyrDerfel My camera work certainly needs improvement, though I hope you'll agree I have improved since I started out.
I'm aware of many of the problems you mentioned, and working to improve.
For most footage I use a fixed focal length macro lens, because simpler lenses allow more light in, and allow me to get a better depth of field.
Do you think the initial purchase price of the lathe is still justified even with all the work you're putting in? Like, as opposed to a little bit larger name name brand lathe or a second hand one?
When I answer that question, it's important that I explain why I bought this lathe. I'm very happy with the Proxxon (from my other videos), and I primarily bought the Chinese lathe as an edicational and improvelment project. I fully intend to work on pretty much every part of it, before I consider it ready for use.
For anyone buying a lathe for real work, I'd strongly recommand a more expensive, reputable brand if you can afford it. However, if you can't afford it, don't worry about buying a cheap machine. Fixing the problems is very educational, and all the problems I found with this lathe are entirely solveable with background reading.
Buying a lathe is the beginning of a fantastic hobby, and you shouldn't have to wait until you can afford something of high quality if you can start learning + having fun on a budget.
@@AdventureswithaVerySmallLathe Don't downplay the advantages of the learning experience. By doing a full tear-down and rebuild, one gains a thorough understanding of how all the 'moving parts' come together, in a way that just doesn't obtain from opening the box and leafing through the manual.