I Filled My Milling Machine With Lead, Cast Iron and Epoxy Granite. Here Is Why
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- G'day everyone,
This video is a follow up to last weeks 'Adding a 3HP motor to my milling machine' video. At the end of the video I quickly found out that whilst the motor was great for drilling, it started to run into limits with the rigidity when milling. Obviously, there is only so much that can be done with regards to improving the rigidity, but there are certainly a few things that I can do to help limit the effects of the vibrations, which I learned when I was upgrading the mini lathe.
So in this video I will attempt to fill the milling machines empty space with lead, epoxy granite (well polyester garnet) and cast iron in order to add mass and dampen vibrations. if I learned anything from the lathe, doping this should have a noticeable effect.
Mill - Sieg x2.7l
#machining #millingmachine
Epoxy Granite Milling Machine
Adding Lead To Milling Machine
Milling Machine Dampen Vibrations
Milling Machine Rigidity
Milling Machine Upgrades
Milling Machine Mods
Casting Lead
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
2:10 - Materials
3:46 - Disassembly
4:54 - Adding Cast Iron And Epoxy Granite
10:59 - Adding Lead To The Head (Casting Lead)
15:58 - Making A Chip Tray, Adding Rubber and Scraping
18:30 - Testing and Final thoughts - Věda a technologie
These small mills and lathes are best thought of as functional kits. I see a lot of people with these things, and it is interesting to see what everyone comes up with to build them up to another level of functionality. Love seeing the ingenuity people put into the modifications, it is all food for thought, and some ideas I have tried using. Once you start to modify, it becomes like a can of Pringles, you can't stop at one. Mine are nothing close to what I brought home new, after 10 years of having them. Well done on yours.
The question is whether it's worth doing all this both in time and money, unless you're into upgrading as a hobby in itself.
@@larrybud for the money you have to invest, you'll often only get some huge clapped out industrial machines, that need quite a bit of work too. Add to that the fact, that I not only don't have the space for them, but also have to get them down into my basement via some rather steep stairs, I'd much rather get a small chinese mill (which I did). Upgrading them might cost you the same as a big one in the long run, but it also means you don't have to pay as much upfront and you can upgrade it bit by bit as you need it. You'll also learn a lot more about your machine by doing that and you'll learn to work around some limitations.
Would I buy a bigger machine if I had infinite money? Yes, but then my workshop wouldn't be in a basement either.
@@TheDr1Acula I'm not sure what the next step up is, but I know I have 500-600 pound woodworking tools in my basement. Just a matter of removing a couple of the larger parts (bed, etc) and moving them.
Like I said, it depends what you want to do. If you need to start making quality parts ASAP, doing the upgrade dance wouldn't be for you.
It's very similar to the 3d printing guys who buy the basic model, struggle with quality prints, and upgrade, upgrade, upgrade, where they would have gotten it all set in one shot.
@@larrybudIt's buy once, cry once. I'm used to machines of high quality industrial CNC machinery, even smaller manual lathes of 30k and more or Deckel vertical mills. That said, nothing compares to those.
But we're not running a business at home, it's rather a hobby, therefore a proper industrial machine doesn't make much sense. That however doesn't mean that you should get the cheapest available, as you'll never be entirely happy with it when you're honest to yourself. Upgrading small and cheap machines might improve them, but at the end of the day it's still a small and cheap machine with drawbacks. Upgrades cost money and all the tooling required also comes at a price. So in the end i highly doubt that you're better off with an upgraded small machine and the limited performance. There are many good companies out there who sell reasonably sized china mills and lathes for a good price. Those machines from china aren't bad at all these days and you start already with a better machine hence you don't have to mess around with modifications to improve it, which also cost money.
Artisan recently bought a new lathe and it's literally the type of machine i mean. It's got a proper gearbox and motor, threading and feeding gearbox aswell as X & Z auto feeds. It's a proper machine for a good price.
Same can ve said about a mill, for about 5-6k you're in for a proper china mill. Not the cheapest, not the most expensive, a good balance is the key for a hobby workshop on a limited budget.
@@AndyHack10 I can't think of one "entry level" machine that I ever bought that I was happy with, and either upgrading or replacing ended up costing more in time (and aggravation) in the long run.
At the same time, I can't think of one higher end machine that I bought that I regretted. I've had a nice Jet table saw that I bought 25 years ago that is still running strong, bought I could have bought something at 1/3 or even 1/4 the price. Same goes for a jointer and welder.
You are missing some points of a epoxy granite composite.
Epoxy granite composite machine frames are designed to optimize stiffness, vibration absorption, and mass enhancement. To achieve these characteristics, the resin content in the composite is minimized to create a harmonious mixture. The goal is to have a composite frame that combines the inherent stiffness of cast iron or similar materials with additional stiffness and absorbtion provided by the composite materials.
The composite portion of the frame consists of materials with high stiffness, a high friction coefficient, and a relatively high density. "Granite" in the name refers to the inclusion of rocks or aggregates in the composite. Granite is an excellent choice for this purpose due to its quartz content, which is both stiff and has a high friction coefficient. The majority of the composite is made up of granite or rocks, providing stiffness and vibration absorption through the contact angles formed between the aggregates.
In addition to granite or rocks, fillers and additives are used to enhance the composite properties. Fillers, such as sand, are employed to fill the voids between the larger grains of the composite. Sand is an effective and affordable filler material that contributes to stiffness. The use of different grain sizes in the composite can help fill up voids while creating an interlocking structure, which further improves stiffness and vibration absorption.
Additives play a role in reducing surface friction and improving chemical/mechanical bonding within the composite or other properties. These additives can be used to enhance the overall performance and properties of the composite frame.
Fibers, such as carbon fiber, fiberglass and kevlar, can also be incorporated into the composite to further reinforce its strength and stiffness. These fibers add an additional layer of rigidity to the frame and enhance its ability to resist vibrations.
You are propable 1000% right, but then you might as well from the beginning build a behemot at some 10-20.000 kg's. What is tried achieved here is the best result with what is on hand
@@sidewind131258 You are quite right aswell, while it is true and good doing with what is on hand he did mention he wanted to stretch its capabilities so i followed up on some advise on epoxy granite composites.
This composite structure could be used to build a frame indepentent from an already stiff form, there are ways to enhance its performance and make it more cost-effective. By incorporating clean normal gravel, granite, and sand into the construction and optimizing the use of epoxy instead of going completely over-board and scientific, we can not only increase the overall weight but also significantly improve its performance. Moreover, this approach could potentially lower costs, as epoxy tends to be one of the more expensive components involved.
It is worth noting that the steel and cast iron parts used in the current setup do not effectively absorb vibrations, thus limiting the overall performance gain. By reducing the resin content and adding aggregates like granite during the casting process for the gantry, we can significantly enhance its performance.
Great job. Lead doesn't off gas or vaporise unless you go way over its melt temp. You are more at risk from skin contamination and ingestion. If you have a scrap metal yard nearby you can save a lot buying from one. Don't be tempted recycling lead acid batteries, they off gas cadmium and are extremely dangerous.
No, I am not missing the point, I am using it for different reasons then it is normally used for on say a proper epoxy granite mill. "The goal is to have a composite frame that combines the inherent stiffness of cast iron or similar materials with additional stiffness and absorbtion provided by the composite materials" Yes but that's not what im going for here. Its simply to add weight. I already have 25mm sheet of steel on the column to aid in rigidity. Cheers
@@sidewind131258 Yeah effectively this. I only had 3 afternoons and a Saturday to get everything ripped apart, cast and put back together. I think its important to make a distinction between what im doing here and what other people do when they are building a frame and encasing it in epoxy granite, because we are trying at achieve slightly different things.
I can imagine someone in the distant future, long after you're gone, dismantling the mill base and thinking 'what the actual f***?!'
I think they'll know when they load it in their truck.
Made a 200lbs concrete base for my mini lathe to bolt too, then bolted the base to a beefed up tool box. All in all everything weighs around 500-600 lbs. Made a big difference with chatter and vibrations
My mini lathe is flaoting on a vibration isolation pad without bolting down. It had to be likethis beacuse of eighbours but its producing surprisingly well results.
I did something similar with the small mill I had. I used lead weights that I melted and just poured onto the prepared surface with perturbed metal fingers welded to the inside of the parts. These were anchor points to keep the lead next to the casting tightly. Worked for me really well. Lead really absorb vibration and weight. Like your different approach with other materials.
Awesome rebuild. You can power scrape very fast and efficiently using a Dremel with a conical stone. If you grind the stone to a fine point using a diamond dresser, you can precisely hit the high areas.
That would be power grind, not power scrape.
For induction hardened beds you can use a small cut off disk, it’s extremely effective. For soft grey iron a 135mm rad sandvik insert with a mushroom handle scraper is arguably more efficient than a Biax. Not reason to use abrasives on soft iron
@@stevenpederson1645 It's power scraper, not power scrape. Touché!
@@bobweiram6321 No, it's not "you can power scrape" is correct grammar. "You can power scraper" is not correct grammar, however using a power scraper to power scrape makes sense, you do not.
@@stevenpederson1645 "That would be grinding, not power scraping." If ya wanna get techy wit it. Power grind is not a real process, whereas power scraping is.
Lead is cheap at scrap yards in the US. Plumbing supply’s have it in bulk ingots too. Also lead doesn’t put off any fumes if it isn’t over heated.
You need mostly rigidity more mass dose help but it will not solve deflection so make a structure that adds rigidity. I made a milling machine and once I welded a 2x2x1/4 steel tube from the top column to the knee it was a missive difference. You want to stop vibrations from happening in the first place instead of the mass band-aid. You can also can direct the vibrations into the stand the machine is sitting on.
Yes that is true, but I already have a thick piece of steel bracing on the back of the column to stiffen the milling machine which made a big difference. Outside of adding that I am not sure what else I can do to significantly improve the rigidity. The adding weight was sort my last ditch attempt to make the mill a bit more solid.
@@artisanmakes Even thick pieces of metal can have deflection and the leverage that is acted upon it can be amplified by distance. That is why you want to tie the top of the column to the knee to cancel that out. you want to make the strongest shape and work inside it the triangle. you will have a metal bar that will get in your way but its worth it.
the plate isnt perfect, bit it was a quick install and ill take the improvements where i can get them
Pushing my machines beyond their limits is a passion 😍
I really enjoy your videos. You explain things very well and I learn quite a bit from you. I am retired and have some machinery in my hobby shop, and really appreciate your knowledge and videos. Thank you for sharing, you make my life better!
As usual a thoughtful and helpful video that reflects your enjoyment of the hobby. Keep on old son. Cheers.
I love this insane Franken-mill.
This is another interesting project, and I’m very interested to see what results you get.
However, rolled lead sheet for flashing is probably THE MOST expensive way of buying lead.
There’s tons of scrap lead around, and most people don’t want anything to do with it. Every three depot has to PAY for the scrap wheel weights to be disposed of. If you offer to take it away for free, they will likely ask you how much you need.
Scrap yards will have buckets of the stuff lying around. They also have the filthy stuff from lead acid batteries. Also, building sites will throw the excess flashing in skips.
I’ve rarely paid for any sheet metal, and never paid for lead.
My thoughts exactly on the lead sheet. I'd head over to my nearest tire shop and buy the bucket of lead wheel balancing weights that have been removed from past customers. Just pay them more than the scrap dealer which probably isn't much.
@@DavidM2002 Yep. Having been in business for many years, I’m aware that the first profit is made at the buying stage. Most people apparently simply don’t understand that basic principle.
I always put a lot of energy into tracing the supply chain as close to the original source as possible. And of course, the principle of one man’s scrap is another man’s treasure, is the ideal basis for the cheapest of supply sources - which the smartest hobbyists can always exploit to their advantage.
It’s great to see you thinking of how to improve your existing tools instead of buying bigger ones. Great job.
A number of years ago, I decided to add a lathe & mill to my fab shop.
A long term goal, I kept my eyes on Craigs List for the real expense in machining, tooling & accessories.
I saw an ad, "30# of end mills - $40", & nearly broke my arm calling. Headed off & scored 30# of end mills; 80% new, 20% slightly used, from 1/2" dbl end to 1.25". It was a major score. It felt like theft; tried to give the young guy more, but he refused.
They were his recently deceased dad's, he knew what they were worth, but didn't care.
Then he said, you in the market for a lathe?
Yeah...
"Be right back."
I thought was going for keys &/or shoes to take me to a shop, as we were in his living room.
Surprised me when he came back w/ what looked to be a toy lathe. About a ft & 1/2 long, he said $50; no motor, but it's got a bunch of other stuff. Dad used it until the motor died.
Feeling bad about the mills, I gave him $50 & left.
When I got home, did some research & learned I'd bought a Sherline precision mini lathe.
A yr+ of research & learning about lathes & I scavenged a free treadmill for the motor.
I'd read how important rigidity & mass were, so I skipped Sherline's recommendation of mounting it on 3/4" plywood.
I salvage granite & marble for projects & always have a lot around. I'd used a 1 1/8" thick sink cut out scrap as part of a T-slot table for a precision metal cutting saw I built & was happy w/ it.
I has some 1/2" 6061 T-6 aluminum someone gave me. They were 24 x 18", machined & anodized bases from a closed manufacturer.
I laid 3 to make a base 36 x 42, then bolted 3 more in opposite layout, for a ttl 1", then made another one.
I made a sandwich by glueing & bolting a slab of 1 1/8" granite between the 2 - 1" 6061 pieces.
I mounted the lathe on this. I then fab a motor mount, attaching to both the sandwiched base & rigidly to the headstock using heim joints & 8mm threaded end shaft. The heims allowed me to dial in both alignment & rigidity. The motor mount was made from over-sized SS & steel I had. I bought nothing but fasteners.
The DC treadmill motor had no low end torque, so I need an intermediate shaft. A neighbor who sold used cars on CL gave a pile of alternators for scrapping.
I was looking at the pile while thinking about an intermediate shaft when I realized 2 of the Motorola alternators were identical, except for the width.
I looked & saw they were different amp capacity; the width gave more windings, which = more amps.
I lined the 2 up & realized if I used the front half & the rotor from the big amp, & the back half of the low amp, I'd end up w/ a dual shaft alternator.
That became my intermidiate shaft assy. Used treadmill OEM multi-vee pulley & belt w/ a small multi-vee pulley from a tile wet saw, (had to buy it-damn!), then used the largest dia cogged timing sprocket that'd fit on the other side of alt.
Found a very small cogged sprocket for the lathe spindle & I ended up w/ a variable speed DC motor w/ plenty of low RPM torque & 5k top spindle speed for
You seem quite knowledgeable and with the right set of skills. Why don't you make a few videos and teach us some things? I'm dead serious!! A lot of US could benefit! Not many young guys like me have the time to learn so much on our own withoht somebody to teach them and still have time to work, build the base for a future home and family and save Money and so on and so on... Thank you
@@att49356 Thanks for the kind words. Launching a YT channel is something I started planning a couple of years before Covid. I communicated w/ successful YT's in relevant areas & thoroughly educated & prepared myself, I was ready.
I've made & repaired cars, houses, consumer 'stuff' since sge 12, I'm now 70. I found time to go to college & grad school, my master's work was in Exercise Physiology, Education & Counseling to support my chosen field of Sports Medicine. I quickly learned it's best a single person's field unless you are very fortunate in your job; just too much travel. I abbreviated my career at 12+ yrs, leaving at my peak, working for the Dodgers org. I founded & operated a computer manufacturing, network installation & IT service business, running it until a life altering brain injury in 2003 end it all.
I'm better than I was in 04-05, but still have my struggles.
The fall before Covidd, I was searching for a videographer just getting started to offer a partnership, business mentorship & a jump start on their life when I contracted Covid. I was a very early case, no body knew anything about it.
If it hadn't been for my medical background, I likely wouldn't be writing. As was, 5 weeks later, when I finally had the energy to shave, I found an extremely swollen lymph node under my R ear. I knew what it was, just not why/how. An MRI found & a CT scan confirmed a necrotic lymph node. By then, it was during lockdown; I'm thinking, 'Great, the worst pandemic in the US & I have to have surgery.'
In May, I see a head/neck surgeon. Five minutes into the consult, he drops this: You have HPV related throat cancer.
Not ONE person prior had even hinted the chance.
July '19 I had throat & neck surgery. By Nov, I had a clean bil l of health, no cancer.
By Mar '20, I was back about very bad R ear ache, (only symptom ever had w/ cancer & only ear ache I'd ever had.)
I knew the score going in; was told, cancer's back. I had a roof to get done on my house & put off trestment as long as they let me & I could stand the ear aches. Started chemo & radiation.
Seven weeks later, I was in much better physical shape from a strenuous workout all thru treatment & felt great. Four days later I was in bed, I couldn't dit without help for 3 months, & couldn't get out of bed for another.
I went from nearly the best physical condition since I was a competitive athlete in college & 185 #'s to 150# & too weak to start a lead blower, (I tried & it's the easiest of the 6-8 2 cycles I own).
I was finally back on my feet, about 75%, by the end of '22, early '23.
A completely unrelated CT scan from '22 had turned up a pancreatic cyst, which got overlooked. My throat onco caught spring '23 & referred me.
A specialized MRI of my pancreas picked up a 'spot on my liver'.
Yep, cancer. Had radiation last summer. Next week I go for my 6 month scan & genetic blood test to see if the treatment has impacted the tumor positively.
Heaven forbid, but if you or yours ever get cancer, be thoroughly prepared & badger the damn docs about the effect of treatments so you are prepared. They don't want to be completely honest 'cause they're afraid of scaring people.
My gawd, you have cancer, by the time treatments over, you're way burned out on fright.
The other thing to prepare for is the wait... the wait to get better, (recovery is gauged in weeks or months) & the interminable wait for 'results' of scans & tests to find out if you're going to see another summer.
As is said, great minds think alike, & your great mind is thinking the same as my damaged mind, but life has got in the way.
I embarked on a shop remodel/expansion & 25 yr overdue re-org. I have a fab/machine metal shop, a cabinet making capable wood/plastics shop & tools/experience in stone/masonry as well as 50 yrs of auto repair & custom/race car building experience.
I have 2 daughters, no grandkids & really wanted/want to pass my knowledge & experience on, but...
Don't know if I can pull it off. Started the shop project to give me something to live for; docs say average is 2-3 yrs, but emphasize that's an average & they've had patients last a month after finding metastasized csncer & we found it very early.
So, I'm going like I don't know what cancer is, in spite of eating a liquid diet thru a 6mm silicone tube going the my abdominal wall. I'm eating right now.
My L hand's holding the 'funnel' & my phone while my R thumb's pecking away. The 2019 neck surgery severed a nerve controlling a major R jaw saliva glannd & the 2020 rad damaged them both. I haven't had enough saliva to swollow food since Sept 2020, likely never will.
Remember what I said about effect of treatment? Was never told this, or other stuff, was possible. Ask, badger, ask some more.
Hope I get to my goal of a YT channel.
'Lord willin' & the creek don't rise.' as my granny used to say.
Regards,
GeoD
4mm on a milling machine like that 😮
Fantastic work as always, Very entertaining and hugely insightful! 😊
Great video.
An option for lead is to visit a tyre place, they're usually happy to give away bucketloads of old tyre balancing weights for free.
Even if they want to charge for it, you should be able to get it at scrap metal prices.
Every time this guy wants a new machine, he goes and sticks a 3hp motor on it.
Very impressive. You are getting all from your mini-mill it has to give. As you pointed out fitting the gibs will help too.
Looks like a good upgrade.Good luck.Thank you.
@5:18 I would have installed a self adhesive rubber mat material before the AL sheet.The rubber mats are sold to stop vibration in car doors and body panels when high end and high power stereos are installed in cars. I also would have used a coat of a silicon rubber to "glue" the AL sheet in place and seal it to the base. Then another layer of rubber mat on top of the AL sheet. I believe that using loose material such as shot gun lead shot instead of a solid epoxy poured in place and large pieces of cast iron would provide better damping. Lead shot is fairly inexpensive compared to lead flashing.
Lead flashing really is the most expensive way to go to acquire lead. I’m not sure about Australia handling laws but tire shops routinely have tons of the wheel weights you could ask about
HOWEVER
A BETTER suggestion given your location might be to inquire about SCUBA and Free diving weights. Even if lead is being phased out there should be plenty of old lead weights still available and probably for less than $230. Hope this info helps for any future equipment upgrades like this. Great video and thanks for documenting these modifications.
I only have so much time in the week to do this, I just grabbed what they had at the hardware store. even if it wasn't the cheapest
We would coat the internal structures of some bases/rails with vermiculite on large machine tools if the structure was a weldment as opposed to a casting. Since steel handles vibrations much worse than castings.
We made large horizontal borers and vertical borers.
So it certainly works well if done right
Fascinating as usual, to see what can be achieved if you put your mind to it. The only thing I would say (from an engineering perspective), is that this is all a trade-off. Having the ability to take greater depth of cut like this, has consequences in terms of the higher loads now being applied to the other parts of the mill you haven’t upgraded. Hopefully those parts (bearings, leadscrews, ways, etc.), are sufficiently ‘over-engineered’ to cope with these forces, ones they presumably weren’t designed for.
Nice upgrade, thanks for sharing 👍.
Looking forward to see what projects you use it for!
Two observations: I would have preferred to add to the bed rather than the base, but perhaps it is already 'full'. Secondly I would worry about the Z screw wear with the extra load. Also the wear and tear on me moving it. Perhaps a counterweight?
You put out great videos. I always learn something.
Very good job. Your application looks great and I will give it some more thought doing mine.
Nice end result
Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Thanks for saying damping, rather than dampening. (You certainly don't want moist vibrations.)
More mass means less chatter and vibration. It’s what makes the machines from a century ago so much better then modern machines in so many ways.
Its not the only reason but yes
@@chrishayes5755 manual machining and CNC are two different beasts, apples and oranges. Otherwise you are correct, those machines are amazing.
I definitely agree. They were build the right way back then.
Old doesn't equal better, it's the opposite
older and modern machines are not made for the same applications, old machines are made for gigantic passes so a lot of rigidity, and modern machines need to absorb a lot more vibrations because today, we have high feed milling tools
If you do any future lead or zinc alloy stuff you can simply use a cut off propane canister as a crucible and get plenty of life from it. You can do the same with Aluminum, but it's a gamble after it's second use.
I know the struggle of finding lead, I find that the best option is facebook marketplace or going to a junkyard and paying $1 a pound
very cool project! and nice results :)
It is important to remember that while mass alone does help attenuate vibrations *in a specific frequency range*, much of the value of the epoxy granite (and composites in general) is that, beyond dampening vibrations through mass alone, composites offer further (and more significant) vibration dampening by combining a material with a very high internal friction (the epoxy) with another material that has a very high Young's Modulus (the bulk filler.)
Your Al2O3 choice is actually better than sand here for two reasons:
- It has a somewhat-higher Young's Modulus
- The shape of the grains (sharp, irregular) should ensure that the grains bear against one another (if the ratio of bulk filler to polymer resin is high enough)
Polyurethane is also a better choice than epoxy, because it has a higher Loss Coefficient than epoxy
",i ran outta liquid nails half way through"
brother i felt that one lol
Sending hopes an prayers that the glued parts don't rattle loose shortly
I've found Blu Tack works really well for sealing epoxy pours.
Real cool adding the weight to the mill but can we get high five and a thumbs up for how good your scraping looks right on bro looks like those old school machines with the fish scaling your ways looks top shelf wow 👌
Cheers, thankyou
Brilliant mod! Skip the comments that don't understand what you have accomplished. Most of them are probably academia and have no sense of logical applications. Hence they can tell you how to make a screw driver but don't understand what they are used for or how to use them! Thanks for posting and take care!
Well the thing is this is quite the complicated topic - hence why you can find thousands of construction businesses but only 3 that build machine beds out of epoxy granite.
Nice job!
The designer in me is screaming because the mill now contains 3 different shades of red and 3 different shades of blue.
But it's an import mini-mill not a piece of fine furniture, so I'd say you did a great job!
It’s a good thing that it’s always out of frame then :) cheers
I recently had to move my workshop at work, so I used the opportunity to paint two lathes, two pillar drills, some shelving, three bench vices, a band saw and workbench legs all battle ship grey. It looks a lot smarter now.
Well done.
Well Played. It accomplished what your goal was. After watching this, I hereby award you the honorary title of Full Blown American Red Neck. Do what ya gotta do with the materials immediately available.👍. Trust me, it takes one to know one and you fit right in.
Congratulations.
Man you really go all in :-). I have this same mill, but I am new to hobby machining, so am a bit hesitant to go all in on this type of mod. I did however do a mod where I removed that quill dro on the front and replaed it with a magnetic scale. Using TouchDRO, you can sum this with the Z axis scale I have on the head, so now regardless of whether I move the head or the quill, it is reflected in the Z reading on my DRO.
Good job 👍🏻
If you're looking for lead hit up your local tire shops for old wheel weights I used to get buckets full free from several places for making decoy weights you can melt it on a propane burner and pour into whatever shape you want just take all the appropriate precautions 👍👍👍
very well done!!!!
In the "not cheap, but I had the material on hand" category, I melted a mostly bismuth (bout 4 kg) plus a bit of antimony and tin combo for mass addition and vibration dampening. I love it ... But it makes lead look cheap.
Anyway, cool video. Thanks.
I think this is a really good idea!
Nice video. Thanks for sharing your efforts to improve these relatively lightweight mills.
I would have liked to see some “before” and “after” vibration measurements to get some idea of the degree of improvement. This can be done easily and cheaply with an iPhone using an app called “Vibration”. I’ve done this using a sticky wax material called “Museum Wax” to attach my iPhone to the machine, making measurements under various conditions.
Obviously can’t go back and measure now, but I’m hoping others working on similar projects attempt to give us some vibration measurements so we can make better choices re improvement projects we are considering.
well done. Gilles
Hey mate, looks good. More weight is always a good thing. Are you in Sydney's inner west by any chance? Those planes flying overhead sound awfully familiar...
No I’m not
In addition, have you considered strongly brackettting from the top of the head to the wall behind with Dynabolts? Vibrations tend to cause waves to the highest/furthest unsupported parts (like the top of a tower).
Great job. Looked like that table was a bit heavier than expected. 😉
Adding some gas struts to the head might further improve the vibrations and definitely improves cranking the head up and down. I added a single one on the left side, but might add a second one sometime in the future.
But would that make it so that the head moves up and down with backlash easier if there was less wight on it?
@@josephchamness9915 the heavy weight of the head (even in its stock form) kinda puts a lot of load on the Z-axis screw, which makes it a bit janky to use when cranking down and causes the head to drop a bit when you open the lock for the Z-axis. This drop probably is a combination of the backlash, some play in the gibs/ways and the fact that the Z-screw can move a bit under the vibrations of heavier cuts. The gas strut prevents the dropping, takes some vibrations off and aids in lowering and especially raising the head back up. The Z-axis now runs buttery smooth. Since I mounted it on a slight angle, it also pushes the head into the ways and removes a bit of play (adjusting the gibs will make them tighter, but the movement even more harder and jankier). All in all the gas strut seems to help quite a bit on my machine and it's a cheap mod to do. I just bought the strongest one I could find in the right length from ebay for roughly 25€, drilled and tapped some holes in the castings and turned some spacers on the lathe.
I think a ball screw conversion is better than a gas strut long term, but the gas strut is still a worthwhile upgrade for anyone who doesn’t want to go that far.
@@JordanHaisley ball screw offers a different function to the gas strut, and while they both in their own way reduce vibration, the gas strut is there to reduce vibration and alleviate the mass of certain components for reduced wear in other parts, where the ball screw is practically a zero backlash mechanism, or essentially a paradox in the machine world, as it replicates the behaviour of a solid rod that connects two pieces... The absolutely minimal backlash(in good b.screw) practically links the two components with much more rigidity than a regular leadscrew... the backlash in the regular leadscrew allows for enormous vibrations and free movement of the looser component, as the leadscrew only works out the backlash in one way by shifting it wholly on the other end of the thread, which allows for bouncing and potential vibration to rattle the system with more ease... Its essentially why the regular leadscrew in a knee mill is almost a perfect solution akin to ball screw in terms of rigidity, as the sheer mass of the apron or the knee eliminates the backlash by simply negating the option for bouncing or vibration through vector force of mass in gravity... Sure, a ballscrew is and can be much much faster running and better still in its rigidity even in a knee mill situation, but that again, is due to nature of the thing itself compared to the other...
@@TheDr1Acula gas struts fail after a few cycles. theyre shit.
im running an air cylinder. bit of maths on pressure and piston diameter, for me its a 20mm, or half squin, at 60 psi gives approx 15kg of counter-force for my head. (sieg x2)
regulator set slightly lower than 60, and a pressure relief valve at slightly above.
Hey, just so you know "mils" are standard unit of length for Electrical engineering PCB desing. When you said "20 mils" thick piece of stell i was like, no no, 20 mil is like half a milimeter. 1 mil = 1 inch / 1000. In america they allways use mils but in other parts of the world we have to know mils and milimeters both. Keep up the good work BTW :)
Outside of PCB's "mil" tends to be short for millimeter, much as "thou" tends to be a thousandth of an inch (which would likely be better than the milliinch which "Mil" relates to). The imperial lot want all the words :)
@@phillmcmanus8601 yeaa makes sense. Its just pain in a butt to have two different units of lenght that pronounce tha same. Ah maybe we will come to agreement about units one day. Until then the imperal march continues :)
Cool 👍
Moltin lead slowly poured into water will make lead spatter that would mix into the epoxy and perhaps help get better density.
My material of choice for adding mass to cavities is lead bird shot from a gun store it comes in plastic containers holding 10kg each then fill with liquid epoxy.
That might work for you but lead shot isn’t readily available here. Cheers
My own way to get lead is going to tire repair shops and there they usually have bunch of used small waights they use to balanse wheels.
When you pulled that table off and i thought for a moment the saddle was factory scraped my jaw literally dropped.
If only. I don't think I'd trust their factory scraping if they did it :) cheers
Gotta love those results! Easy to un-wonkify the bends on a rainy day. Or extend them and fill it with concrete. :D If you ever do a cnc conversion don't forget extra heatsinks on the Z-axis, heh heh.
what about the spindle bearings?
are you not over taxing them?
T es un boss mec bravo
awesome video.
Mass is certainly a good thing for light machines like this. I wonder what your next mod is going to be?
If it interests you, I've seen some guys here on YT replacing the height/Z axis crank handle with an adaptor so that they can use a cordless drill or a 3/8 or 1/2 inch drive cordless rattle gun/impact gun.
Brake rotors also make nice wind chimes.
Which do you prefer using in regard to garnet versus aluminum oxide? Garnet is about 66% of the cost of AO and actually weighs more by volume (bulk density of 147 lbs/ft3 versus 120). It isn't as good for actual blasting since it isn't as hard but that won't be the issue here. It also ships bone dry if you are picky about the moisture content of your mix. The lead material used reminds me of vibration dampener panels for car audio. When I soundproofed my truck, I used the butyl rubber elastomer sheet that was ridiculously dense and heavy. I wonder if that's an option. I don't recall a big roll of it being to expensive other than shipping.
How long do you think till you buy a new one?
Just saw and got some of that Bunn..... rubber yesterday. Wonder if Stainless steel tube filled with lead could be used to make a CNC mill? Going to need engine lift to move that thing now.
I love your videos and what you did with this one but you should have mixed the powdered filler with the resin 50 50 before you mixed the 2 together to make it more dense I have a very simpler machine and I completely overhauled it and made a completely new back colom and that was a massive improvement in itself but u think I'm inspired Anuf from you to do the table base
Thank you for the awsome videos keep them coming man
Interesting upgrade, thanks for sharing. I wonder if you'd have usefully got more weight in if you'd poured lead shot into the compartments you made and then poured resin to fill the voids between the shot. Just a thought experiment, I understand you are using what you have on hand to control costs and save time.
It’s my understanding that lead shot isn’t readily available to buy here
@@artisanmakes there is a mob in brisbane (and online) called "rebel gun works" that sell lead shot for reloading shotgun shells in various sizes. 1kg or 10kg bags :)
Not my state but they do seem to sell it. About the same price for what I paid for my lead
@@artisanmakes It's relatively easy to make it by dripping molten lead into a (large) bucket of cold water from 2-3m height. You won't get perfect results (as in a shot tower) but it should be good enough for the task
If you know a roofer you can buy old lead flashing off of them for way cheaper as they’d take it to the scrap metal place anyway, you save them a trip and usually give them like an extra $20 off of what they’d normally get, they’re more than happy
Most good Aussie blokes will just give it to you.
Instead of chopping up cast iron, lead sheet etc, just a few bags of Lead Shot...used in Gyms and Movie Riggers for stabilizing tripods, light stands etc.
Shot size of about 4 to 9 mm will allow
Good filling of spaces, and the Interstices will allow thorough flow of Resin.
Much less hassles than other means.
I use this system to give mass to Model Railway rolling stock ( Locos, Wagons) to give better Adhesion for motorised, and better tracking for Wagons.
Lead shot isnt readily available where I live unfortunately
Congrats! I really thought you’d have a lot more difficulty raising it up. I agree with the other poster about rigidity though. This helps a bit, but a half inch plate screwed to the rear if the column would help a lot.
About a year ago I shoved a 20mm plate on the back to close off the back of the column. Made a huge difference
I love your approach. What can I do with the resources and talent available to me? Very approachable content and I look forward to implementing these lessons in many other areas.
You can also get old tungsten tools and bits which are even denser
Read the development of Moore jig bore. It set the standards for anti vibration and accuracy with heat.
Some questions off the top of my head:
Do you need to recalibrate the accelerations, etc. because of the weight-change?
Does the added weight increase wear on the screws, etc?
How much do you think you spent on these Improvements? What % of a better mill is it? Plus your time.
I had a Tom Senior vertical mill everything you see is sold cas iron . I was surprised to find the modern chinese mills are so hollow - so filling makes perfect sense
If you wanted to add lots of mass with lead and get it packed in as tight as possible while still being fully encapsulated with resin, I think either lead (or steel) fishing sinkers and/or buckshot mixed into the resin and then poured into the castings would have worked better for you...
Really nice Projekt. Would it be possible to build a counterweight for the Millinghead?
Definitely a worth while mod, do you have any future plans on converting the mill to cnc?
Were you still able to use the power feed mod you made for the column?
I would suggest to enjoy the reduced vibrations, but refrain from utilising the extra depth of cut apparently available, because the machine is a system, and in upgrading input power, and input torque, you also proportionally increase reaction loads on the machine from cutting forces... So something else will become the limit.... IDK what exactly. Maybe the spindle bearings, maybe the spindle itself... But if the next thing to fail has a failure mode that creates debris, you might be at risk. Or the bit to fail might be expensive and the failure might write off the machine.
It is a bit like putting a formula one engine in a vw beetle without upgrading tyres, brakes, driveshafts, clutch, or gearbox. Can't end well if you actually stomp the throttle. Drive gently and you may get away with it for a while, but....
I have done the "doughnut" mod to remove flex from the toolpost mount on my lathe, and it made a huge difference because it is a lot stronger, and a lot more rigid as well.. but i am not going silly with depth of cut, i am just getting much better finishes.
its definitely at the back of my mind. as much as I like to push my machines, I'm not actively trying to break them. I think ill mostly stock to the lighter depths of cuts but Ill take full advantage of the fact that I don't have to worry as much about the vibrations and chatter. And for what its worth its running tapered roller bearings and ive put them to worse on the mini lathe and they seemed to hold up well. Cheers
You should try an engine block filler compound. I've used block filler in my engines to strengthen the block and you can buy this stuff in bulk. "Hard Blok Engine Block Filler" is the most popular product but there are others. Or, Devcon Aluminum Liquid would be a good choice
I'd just make a heavier table, any advantage to this approach vs just bolting it in to a sturdier base ?
With the added weight to the head you might be worth adding a traveling counterweight to the rear. my S type Kearns has a traveling counterweight but is a 1960’s factory special with 40 taper spindle but no facing gearbox so the counterweight makes it near weightless to traverse the head compared to other s type Kearns and takes all the load off the slideways
Lead and nowdays zinc tire balancing weights is an easy and cheap way to add alot of mass.
Just call your local tire shop and ask. I have gotten plenty that way for casting.
Great stuff! I was really interested to see what you would do. I bolted lead ingot and steel to the head and column of mine. I'm a bit concerned that the column attachment to the base is now a weak point, and tramming makes me nervous. I'd love to think of a way to support the column, but I haven't come up with anything yet. Thanks for the video!
Bolt or weld on a gusset plate at the bottom of the base.
@@bobweiram6321 It would need to be adjustable both side to side and forward and back. I can't figure out a way to do it in all directions and have it provide enough leverage or rigidity to maintain square without adding a lot of complexity to the tramming process. I was thinking of using threaded rod out to a connection on the base, but I can't think of a good way to control forward and backward movement. Maybe you're thinking of using a gusset in a way that I haven't. Have you seen something done to a mill specifically that I can watch or see?
I would be too worried I have a big 25mm sheet of steel at the back of the mill which bolts the column to the base and allows for tramming. Cheers Edit: The bolt holes are big enough to allow leeway for tramming
With the extra mass on the head, I wonder if a mast top pulley and counterweight might be advisable to reduce excess load on the gearing system?
Ive heard that you can usually get fairly cheap lead from scrap wheel weights or something. Idk might be worth it to look into!
Saga of Endless upgrades of the Mini Lathe has ended... Let the Mini Mill Saga begin! 😀
I only wish you would have painted the red parts blue. Thats just how my brain works. Good luck with the upgrades.
Can anyone recommend how to dampen vibrations inside a large 1m x 1m cast iron tombstone on a 5 axis cnc miller. I dont want to add too much wait due to the pallet changer. Any recommendations for damping vibrations?
Do you have space for a portaband on a stand? Relatively affordable to save a ton of time compared to angle grinders and manual hacksaws
I wish I had never bought a bandsaw (4x6). Just get a metal cutting carbide blade for a cheap (low speed) miter saw. Now you can talk about fast! And get a decent cut. Watch out for those chips they'll stick to your skin and burn deep.
Not really at the moment
Nice one. I have the same mill. Do you still have the 16mm plate on the back of the column as well?
20mm plate and yes i do
Do you have any recommendations for scrapers I'm planning on building my only gingery lathe