Good video. You obviously have a good grasp of Jaynes' theory. It would be nice to hear from someone who has not yet studied it in detail, to see how well they could understand your presentation. I'll see if I can get one or both of my daughters to sit down and watch it for 19 minutes. The other thing I wanted to say is that I am with Iain McGilchrist on this topic. His answer is clearly, "No, they were not schizophrenic". For me, it was one of the most interesting parts of The Master and His Emissary. He agrees with Jaynes' theory nearly entirely, but not with regard to using the term "schizophrenia" in reference to the mentality of the Egyptian bicameral mind. In short, the voices heard in Ancient Egypt were originated in, and integrated with, the right hemisphere. Lateralization toward the left hemisphere accompanied the breakdown of the bicameral mind, and further lateralization to the left accompanies this modern (beginning in the 18th century?) disease we call schizophrenia. In this sense, McGilchrist explains, normal modern people are MORE, not less, bicameral than Jaynes' ancient bicameral human. And schizophrenics are much more "bicameral" than both modern normal and ancient people. Put another way (and there are many ways to put this), schizophrenics cannot get ahold of the RH "territory", so they are condemned to inhabit the lifeless, fragmented world of the LH "map"; while the ancient bicameral human had a comparatively robust communication system between the map and territory. I think you already know this, but Iain McGilchrist discusses this view of schizophrenia in The Master and His Emissary, and then again in much more depth in Chapter 9 of his new book, The Matter with Things. The world is rapidly becoming all map no territory, so abstract, so virtual, that we run the risk of mass schizophrenia. If I could summarize maybe the most important pragmatic takeaway from McGilchrist's new book in the shortest possible sentence, it's this: The planet is suffering from RHDD (Right Hemisphere Deficit Disorder). and it's getting worse.
Robert's comment here is really important for everyone to read. Jaynes originally called the condition of hearing auditory hallucinations "schizophrenia" but we now define schizophrenia to include many different presentations, not only auditory hallucinations.
Well done, and fascinating as always... thx! Also makes me appreciate what a 'yuge' change Akhenaten's reign must have been, suddenly going from 1400+ gods/voices, to one, aka the Sun God (which also serves as a good metaphor as any for the 'rise' of the Ego).
That was at the dawn of consciousness when they had partial consciousness, as in: The God's no longer speak to me and I walk about like a man with a blanket on his head, a headache envelopes my head
My man, so good to see you continuing to produce such great material. Keep it going! (This is Pete, btw. I had to create a new account with CZcams) I was going to send you a message about an idea for a video. I'd like to see a Nexus Void video that explores the practice of nondual Meditation, through the lens of your singular perspective about consciousness, identity, and socialization. I have some thoughts about it, but I think the topic needs the knowledge, expertise, and intellect of your perspicuous mind. What do you think?
I wonder how the bicameral mind theory explains why we are "conscious" in our own bodies and not in others. Existence itself is still a mystery I guess.
Make live video? Randomly talking with the viewers about philosophy why not...I think everyone would love it...ide like to see u pump out more content! Interesting
While taking psychedelics you can also experience auditory hallucinations as you describe. Some say psychedelics break down the Default Mode Network (seat of the ego and handler of day to day tasks) which filters out these entities for most people most of the waking day. Its possible schizophrenic are a throwback to a time when this Network wasn't evolved yet as Jayne points out. I just wanted to note that this kind of schizphrenia can be induced with psychedelics as well. Cool video:)
Egyptian are the most relegious people in the world and i believe that they are the most intelligent people in the world if you give them the right circumstances as they are creative. All this because they are very very relegious.
@@galenflynn398 Egyptians just need political freedom, but Egyptians themselves are very free minded this is why they are creative. If there is any medical problem in the world, architecture problem, buliding problem, moon journey problem, oil problem, flying problem, engineering problem, football or soccer problem, sports problem, and economical problem in the world, they call an Egyptian expertise in the field to fix it for them. The reason : Egyptians are very very religious, this makes them smart... But their problem with leaders who work against the interest of them, rather for selfish ego, for themselves which something against all religions. The strange thing that all leaders of Egypt so far non-religious people!!! Understand my friend.
Problem is in actual schizophrenia the voices never tell people to do anything normal or healthy. If they were all 'schizophrenic' these must have been very different hallucinations than what we see today because the ancients were obviously very healthy and functional
Until he understands that demonic activity is involved him and everyone else on this topic will just ramble on about something that's way above there ability to comprehend.
I am a schizophrenic and I have visions that tell me the future and come true I also have dreams of traveling through the pyramids and waking up at the top looking down at it not even as a human
@@anubis4695 also in my vision I was walking up to the entrance and two golden statues with purple skin spin their heads and stared directly at me as I entered
Almost certainly yes because whenever Egypt was conquered, the conquerors rarely imposed their own religion on the Egyptians but rather adopted Egyptian religion. Something about it was so gripping and psychologically potent that it could withstand repeated conquest by foreigners, until the Christianization of the Roman Empire.
Please get in contact with Ben on uncharted x or Brien Forster or Grahme Hancock, or all together, and have a filmed discussion about this area. It would be interesting to all involved.
I find this theory incredibly interesting and probable. I do have a hard time reconciling with the idea that a mere hallucination of some higher being who is actually just the self could already know a language to teach and the knowledge on how to farm crops and create perfect geometrical monuments. What I'm trying to say is, how could we hallucinate all this advanced knowledge, virtues and moral codes if we have never been exposed to this knowledge or information before? We must have learned it at some point or someone, something, must have planted or taught us these concepts if they somehow already existed in our unconscious for to hallucinate them. Is this theory suggesting that our unconscious mind is somehow already individuated and actualized to its maximum potential at the earliest stages of consciousness? I'm having a hard time with this, unless there is something am missing or not fully understanding in which case I would greatly appreciate clarification. Thank you so much. Whatever the case, very impressive work and intriguing to say the least. 😊
All esoteric knowledge comes from Kemet. It's where all scholars studied. Once Iran and then Greece invaded all scripture was appropriated, copied and corrupted by Greek scribes who doctored the Bible from this source.
Here is a good hypothesis. Copper toxicity and the oxidation of catecholamines can cause chronic psychosis. I know of a few people who cured their schizophrenia by chelating their copper toxicities. The punchline is in their days almost EVERYTHING was made from copper and they consumed massive amounts of it. I presume schizophrenia was very prevalent in their communities.
Im currently taking a abnormal psychology class and this week's subject is schizophrenia Based on the DSM 5 criteria religious zealots are schizophrenic These parameters are so under studied and overlying stigmatized Truth is we know shit about the mind and reality If insurance companies weren't involved we would make better progress imo They require the field to be closed to fitting people in a bix in order to qualify or quantify
This was the whole world at one time and now mostly the lagging east. The whole world was bicameral about 5,000 years ago and each countries calamities one at a time sparked consciousness and people like Jesus helped spark that consciousness in the mind of man
Could the breakdown of the bicameral mind have led to the disappearance of civilizations worshipping hundreds of gods and instead worshipping of the one "God" which in turn slowly led to the ego-self instead being worshipped i.e. God is the self. I guess in other words, people would hear less voices until they only heard one voice which then led to hearing this voice at all times and thus us associating this voice to just be our self
Technically yes, but then we would be positing a level of psychological sophistication that would have been difficult to achieve that early on. Deliberate deception requires a high degree of intelligence. It also doesn't explain how the Greeks, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Indians, and Chinese all came up with the exact same lie. I think it's more likely that their minds were predisposed to come up with gods. It would also suggest that people who suffer from psychosis today are lying. I think Joan of Arc definitely did hear voices, as do many people today. And remember, your own dreams are similar because you encounter autonomous entities in your dream. What I'm saying is that bicameral hallucinations would be like waking dreams.
Interesting. I wonder if fragmentation is far more common than our ego driven society admits about itself! Perhaps tradition, religion and family lore are cultivated precisely to head off fragmentation. Whenever society is passionate and irrational regarding others, eg. binary gender, skin color, religious belief, this is the force behind intolerance. Also prevents evolution......
Question: how come people like this always seem to say that the voices tell them to do only bad stuff all the time? Why doesn't the voices tell their diminished ego to clean the hell out of the neighborhood for free, for example? Silly
My guess is that we tend to treat such voices like they are inherently pathological, so they learn to become assholes rather than being productive. This is how I plan to treat people schizophrenia.
Good video. You obviously have a good grasp of Jaynes' theory. It would be nice to hear from someone who has not yet studied it in detail, to see how well they could understand your presentation. I'll see if I can get one or both of my daughters to sit down and watch it for 19 minutes.
The other thing I wanted to say is that I am with Iain McGilchrist on this topic. His answer is clearly, "No, they were not schizophrenic". For me, it was one of the most interesting parts of The Master and His Emissary. He agrees with Jaynes' theory nearly entirely, but not with regard to using the term "schizophrenia" in reference to the mentality of the Egyptian bicameral mind. In short, the voices heard in Ancient Egypt were originated in, and integrated with, the right hemisphere. Lateralization toward the left hemisphere accompanied the breakdown of the bicameral mind, and further lateralization to the left accompanies this modern (beginning in the 18th century?) disease we call schizophrenia. In this sense, McGilchrist explains, normal modern people are MORE, not less, bicameral than Jaynes' ancient bicameral human. And schizophrenics are much more "bicameral" than both modern normal and ancient people.
Put another way (and there are many ways to put this), schizophrenics cannot get ahold of the RH "territory", so they are condemned to inhabit the lifeless, fragmented world of the LH "map"; while the ancient bicameral human had a comparatively robust communication system between the map and territory. I think you already know this, but Iain McGilchrist discusses this view of schizophrenia in The Master and His Emissary, and then again in much more depth in Chapter 9 of his new book, The Matter with Things.
The world is rapidly becoming all map no territory, so abstract, so virtual, that we run the risk of mass schizophrenia. If I could summarize maybe the most important pragmatic takeaway from McGilchrist's new book in the shortest possible sentence, it's this: The planet is suffering from RHDD (Right Hemisphere Deficit Disorder). and it's getting worse.
This is a beautiful comment. Thank you for posting.
Robert's comment here is really important for everyone to read. Jaynes originally called the condition of hearing auditory hallucinations "schizophrenia" but we now define schizophrenia to include many different presentations, not only auditory hallucinations.
Also Rob, I will respond to your insights in the Discord channel!
I just can't believe how interesting your channel is and how few subscribers you have compared to the quality of your content. Keep it up!
Subscribing and sharing will help a ton!
Well done, and fascinating as always... thx! Also makes me appreciate what a 'yuge' change Akhenaten's reign must have been, suddenly going from 1400+ gods/voices, to one, aka the Sun God (which also serves as a good metaphor as any for the 'rise' of the Ego).
Oh heck yes! You brought it up, you delivered. Love the intro and the slick setup!
Love these bicameral mind videos!
That was at the dawn of consciousness when they had partial consciousness, as in: The God's no longer speak to me and I walk about like a man with a blanket on his head, a headache envelopes my head
Brilliant. You've really inspired me. I'm a diagnosed schizophrenic and you are one of the most insightful thinkers on schizophrenia I've encountered.
My man, so good to see you continuing to produce such great material. Keep it going!
(This is Pete, btw. I had to create a new account with CZcams) I was going to send you a message about an idea for a video. I'd like to see a Nexus Void video that explores the practice of nondual Meditation, through the lens of your singular perspective about consciousness, identity, and socialization. I have some thoughts about it, but I think the topic needs the knowledge, expertise, and intellect of your perspicuous mind. What do you think?
Will definitely look into it!
The chaos is what sparks consciousness much like we are witnessing in Eukrain
All of your videos should be the #1 topics on Earth.
Thanks for the video
Damn man these Egyptians are a smart bunch
I wonder how the bicameral mind theory explains why we are "conscious" in our own bodies and not in others. Existence itself is still a mystery I guess.
YES?!?
Make live video? Randomly talking with the viewers about philosophy why not...I think everyone would love it...ide like to see u pump out more content! Interesting
They were bicameral
While taking psychedelics you can also experience auditory hallucinations as you describe. Some say psychedelics break down the Default Mode Network (seat of the ego and handler of day to day tasks) which filters out these entities for most people most of the waking day. Its possible schizophrenic are a throwback to a time when this Network wasn't evolved yet as Jayne points out. I just wanted to note that this kind of schizphrenia can be induced with psychedelics as well. Cool video:)
Egyptian are the most relegious people in the world and i believe that they are the most intelligent people in the world if you give them the right circumstances as they are creative. All this because they are very very relegious.
They were bicameral and because of their east partof the world, they are far behind the free mind countries of the world as far as consciousness goes
@@galenflynn398
Egyptians just need political freedom, but Egyptians themselves are very free minded this is why they are creative. If there is any medical problem in the world, architecture problem, buliding problem, moon journey problem, oil problem, flying problem, engineering problem, football or soccer problem, sports problem, and economical problem in the world, they call an Egyptian expertise in the field to fix it for them. The reason : Egyptians are very very religious, this makes them smart... But their problem with leaders who work against the interest of them, rather for selfish ego, for themselves which something against all religions. The strange thing that all leaders of Egypt so far non-religious people!!! Understand my friend.
@@khalidalahmay333 Khaled I respect and appreciate you brother 🙏 The beautiful, wonderful people of Egypt 🇪🇬 freedom comes from God and His Son Jesus
@@galenflynn398 l love Jesus he is the light of god
Problem is in actual schizophrenia the voices never tell people to do anything normal or healthy. If they were all 'schizophrenic' these must have been very different hallucinations than what we see today because the ancients were obviously very healthy and functional
Your content is just too good. I'm binge watching all of your videos. Thank you for all your work, I hope your channel grows exponentially
Thanks!
Until he understands that demonic activity is involved him and everyone else on this topic will just ramble on about something that's way above there ability to comprehend.
I am a schizophrenic and I have visions that tell me the future and come true I also have dreams of traveling through the pyramids and waking up at the top looking down at it not even as a human
@@anubis4695 also in my vision I was walking up to the entrance and two golden statues with purple skin spin their heads and stared directly at me as I entered
The kings Ka
'In the beginning, the word was with God and the word was God
I wonder if this deeply spiritual government of Egypt also helped them to last so many centuries and even survive the Bronze Age collapse.
Almost certainly yes because whenever Egypt was conquered, the conquerors rarely imposed their own religion on the Egyptians but rather adopted Egyptian religion. Something about it was so gripping and psychologically potent that it could withstand repeated conquest by foreigners, until the Christianization of the Roman Empire.
in the middle east, egyptians and moroccans are the most prone to developing schizophrenia
Please get in contact with Ben on uncharted x or Brien Forster or Grahme Hancock, or all together, and have a filmed discussion about this area. It would be interesting to all involved.
1:32 im getting ego death for some reason?,
is it my familys crazy egos?...
I find this theory incredibly interesting and probable. I do have a hard time reconciling with the idea that a mere hallucination of some higher being who is actually just the self could already know a language to teach and the knowledge on how to farm crops and create perfect geometrical monuments. What I'm trying to say is, how could we hallucinate all this advanced knowledge, virtues and moral codes if we have never been exposed to this knowledge or information before? We must have learned it at some point or someone, something, must have planted or taught us these concepts if they somehow already existed in our unconscious for to hallucinate them. Is this theory suggesting that our unconscious mind is somehow already individuated and actualized to its maximum potential at the earliest stages of consciousness? I'm having a hard time with this, unless there is something am missing or not fully understanding in which case I would greatly appreciate clarification. Thank you so much. Whatever the case, very impressive work and intriguing to say the least. 😊
Fascinating topic!
If you find it interesting, you should watch Westworld if you haven't already!
@FunnyOldeWorld might like this one
All esoteric knowledge comes from Kemet. It's where all scholars studied. Once Iran and then Greece invaded all scripture was appropriated, copied and corrupted by Greek scribes who doctored the Bible from this source.
10:36 dead space 4 phycoligy is confuseing?...
What does wtf mean?...
Here is a good hypothesis.
Copper toxicity and the oxidation of catecholamines can cause chronic psychosis. I know of a few people who cured their schizophrenia by chelating their copper toxicities.
The punchline is in their days almost EVERYTHING was made from copper and they consumed massive amounts of it.
I presume schizophrenia was very prevalent in their communities.
Im currently taking a abnormal psychology class and this week's subject is schizophrenia
Based on the DSM 5 criteria religious zealots are schizophrenic
These parameters are so under studied and overlying stigmatized
Truth is we know shit about the mind and reality
If insurance companies weren't involved we would make better progress imo
They require the field to be closed to fitting people in a bix in order to qualify or quantify
This was the whole world at one time and now mostly the lagging east. The whole world was bicameral about 5,000 years ago and each countries calamities one at a time sparked consciousness and people like Jesus helped spark that consciousness in the mind of man
Potentially psychedelic usage which is highly likely as well.
Wish we could look at the brains of ancient people to see whether there are anatomical differences.
is bishoy just a hallucination? 😱
have you ever actually seen Bishoy?
Could the breakdown of the bicameral mind have led to the disappearance of civilizations worshipping hundreds of gods and instead worshipping of the one "God" which in turn slowly led to the ego-self instead being worshipped i.e. God is the self.
I guess in other words, people would hear less voices until they only heard one voice which then led to hearing this voice at all times and thus us associating this voice to just be our self
Yes! Monotheism appears to be a consequence of the breakdown of the bicameral mind in the way you described.
Isn't it possible that they were just lying? Like, when you look around, nothing would have been changed since
Technically yes, but then we would be positing a level of psychological sophistication that would have been difficult to achieve that early on. Deliberate deception requires a high degree of intelligence.
It also doesn't explain how the Greeks, Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Indians, and Chinese all came up with the exact same lie. I think it's more likely that their minds were predisposed to come up with gods.
It would also suggest that people who suffer from psychosis today are lying. I think Joan of Arc definitely did hear voices, as do many people today. And remember, your own dreams are similar because you encounter autonomous entities in your dream. What I'm saying is that bicameral hallucinations would be like waking dreams.
Interesting. I wonder if fragmentation is far more common than our ego driven society admits about itself! Perhaps tradition, religion and family lore are cultivated precisely to head off fragmentation. Whenever society is passionate and irrational regarding others, eg. binary gender, skin color, religious belief, this is the force behind intolerance. Also prevents evolution......
Question: how come people like this always seem to say that the voices tell them to do only bad stuff all the time?
Why doesn't the voices tell their diminished ego to clean the hell out of the neighborhood for free, for example?
Silly
My guess is that we tend to treat such voices like they are inherently pathological, so they learn to become assholes rather than being productive. This is how I plan to treat people schizophrenia.
Abaisement du niveau mental
Lowering of the mental level