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Room Treatment Is *Mostly* Snake Oil
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2022
- Self-proclaimed mixing engineers often tout how excellent room treatment is. In this video, Sharur Audio puts this common misconception to rest.
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Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms: www.amazon.com...
Perceptual Effects of Room Reflections: www.audioscien...
Influence of the Listening Environment on Recognition of Immersive Reproduction of Orchestral Music Sound Scenes: www.aes.org/e-...
Try listening in a soundproofed room without treatment. Even with a "perfect" speaker-constant directivity, wide dispersion-the ringing sound of flutter echoes and hugely inconsistent bass response from room modes will make listening very unpleasant.
nope
Sure, bud.
Sound treatment is useful when recording vocals with microphones to avoid capturing reflections. Easily done with a vocal booth.
yes
KH310 graph doesn't show ceiling reflection, rather lack of it thanks to narrowing of vertical directivity due to cancelation in crossover region (LR4 filter without 1/4 wavelength spacing) so treatment will do jack shit. Sometimes narrower directivity will work better but flat DI down to transition region is paramount, read Geddes.
treatment will help prevent the deficiency from being audible
The consensus I've reached after way too much research on this topic is that whether or not acoustic panels are worth it is greatly based upon whether or not you've already bought them, much like expensive wires.
Truthfully, acoustic treatment needs a professional with the knowledge and equipment to both analyze and install if you're going to see and hear results any near worth what you're going to pay for treatment that actually works. That being said, if you can afford it, you also likely have very expensive equipment and a dedicated listening room that was properly fitted for listening in the first place and has the treatment build into it. If you're tacking "30 bucks a 12 pack" acoustic panels onto your wall in an attempt to be a budget audiophile, you're basically the guy who stuck a chrome exhaust tip on his rusty muffler or plastic spinning rims on his steal wheels.
I will save this video for when I'll get into the speaker world, more complex overall. Or should I get the 8341A for a small room and call it a day? Oh, it's not available in my country with warranty.. Same ol'..
nice
Room treatment only matters if you have actual instruments
no
even if you don't listen to audio at all having a sound treated room is so nice
no
@@Sharur1 it's quiet
Can't wait for Kali audio to make under 500 coaxials
lol
Using a pair of Genelec 8331 and 7350 I guess my preferences are just weird then. After placing several absorbers RT 60 went down from 0,9s to 0,4s and now everything sounds much more pleasant and detailled.
nice
An RT60 of 0,9s is pretty high tho. Amir's comment on the 8341 spinorama is "only "treat" if too live". So your preferences are not weird at all ;)
One misleading part of the video is when you talk about equalizing below a certain frequency threshold. You cannot use equalization to fix standing wave issues. For example, a "valley" in the FR resulting from a standing wave is a null zone created by equal but opposite waves. They will always cancel each other out.
i already addressed that in the video
colab with dr sean olive when or at least with scientific audiophile
july
hey um i just wanted to ask whats ur oppinion on the topping dx3 pro+ and the fiio k5 pro ess. which is the better buy? the topping is 15 euro/dollars more tho but is has bluetooth which i will prob use. or can u recommend any other dac/amp combo lol?
just buy the motu m2
Would you say JBL 530's are real speakers?
No
Sharur is the best audio reviewer, no doubt.
- Sun Tzu
yes
haha room goes brrrrr
yes
What's your favourite class in tf2, Sharur
don't play
@@Sharur1 try to stop me
Genesis 1:
And so Sharur told the truth, and the only truth you need to know is a diffuse sound field graph.
lol
Please review Moondrop blessing 2
maybe
Are you gonna review Kei x Moeha? Are you gonna review Kaguya-sama live? XD
Btw check this out
Kei x Moeha
--> 1st initials are KxM like Kaguya x Miyuki
--> Last initials are ixa like Miyuki x Kaguya
Also the last initials are a and i, which combine to ai as in ai hayasaka and ai the japanese for love, etc.
It's like...
Katara x Aang and then Korra x Asami. both KxA. Lol.
I am not lol
@@Sharur1 k thanks anyway XD
Have you heard some of Siegfried Linkwitz designs?
no
the most important thing is never buy shit sound-absorbing panels that are made out of plastic , Always make a diy one
but the most important thing is don't place it aesthetically (to be honest i dont know how to place it but my room has furniture so they absorb something and for me it's ok)
no
@@Sharur1 no what Xd
why would you make a diy one
@@Sharur1( aah ok ) because what you buy if its not a good quality (maybe idk 20m x 20m for 10€ it's too cheap and they will work the same as the egg packaging (you know that thing made of i think cardboard similarly shaped) it do the same thing
and the diy one it works as it actually should (there are some "hi-fi" companies that make those but they are the same as the diy)
sorry for my grammar
it's shit
Exactly. Either buy some rock wool or glass fiber insulation, 70+mm thickness is something to strive for. Then put it in a frame and add some breathable fabric to cover it. BOOM, great absorbtion for less amount of money. This is still plastic in a way, but polyester fibre panels are also a wonderful option which won't break the bank either.
I'm mostly treating the room for microphone recordings. Let's say if I'm sitting at my desk. First place to treat would be the first contact places which is behind the desk/monitor. Next would be right behind me. After that, ceiling is the way to go above the desk.
Just imagine that the soundwave is like a bouncing rubber ball. If you throw it on the wall in front of you, it's gonna bounce from that Wall continuing to bounce behind you. It's very simplified but it pretty much how you wanna think
What speakers is Dr. Olive using?
revel salon 2
Would the JBL M2s be good in a small room (13x13)ft with no early reflection treatment? I have 8 big ass diy panels but would put them in the corners to treat room modes if possible.
is this a joke lol
Other than genelec coaxial studio monitors, do you have any tower speakers to recommend? And what kind of amplifier is best for those?
kef ls60 and they have a built in amp
When did u became a chika fan
always both
I know this has nothing to do with the video, but what dac do you use for listening while not at home? apple dongle? i was wondering if it'd be worth it to get something like btr5/7 or moondrop dacs but after looking around youtube i can't find a conclusion since no one compares them...
Apple dongle or motu m2 I assume
Why would you buy any of that just buy apple dongle
@@Dan-pi6dx i need volume control and if i ever get a proper headphone i would like to be able to power it too...and ofc resolving sound to get the max from iem or headphone would be nice...
@@mistaBorg ???? you can control volume using your pc or phones volume ajustements and you dont need more power for more resolution lol what ?
@@Dan-pi6dx i want to use with old tablet and phone which have 10% jumps, unusable with simple dongle for volume control and apps for that dont work well on phone or tablet...i use fiio k3 and its good but doesnt work with tablet well...
Nice!
np
Good video
thanks
What are some of the best studio Monitors for untreated rooms?
Anything that has good directivity as you can correct on-axis with EQ. I highly recommend Genelec coaxials.
@@Sharur1 What's the cheapest Coaxials you'd call decent?
@@zacaviad919 every coaxial I know of is pretty expensive. Kef LS50 Meta EQ'd to flat on axis and subwoofers for bass could be good, but it's hard to time aline speakers and subs from different companies. Ideally you would get DSP mains and subs from the same company and easily integrate them with the supplied measurement microphone and software.
banger vid
damn
agree, you should make more speaker videos as they’re very informative
You need more education on this topic!
you
But if "real speakers" are all mostly very expensive wouldn't it be better to just buy a cheaper speaker with acoustic treatment
no, it will sound bad
@@Sharur1 enlightened me
Podcasters are also obsessed with shitty treatment foam just fill a room with shit and it will be fine
lol
Pretty good video, gave me some ideas for future speakers
inspirational comment
@@Sharur1 I deleted some comments but theres just too many lol
infinity system?
Two infinity p363s
one infinity primus pc351
four infinity tss-1200
one infinity ps312
nad t757
@@Sharur1 how rich are you?!
2 hours too late, dang it
nice
Thanks for this video, Sharur!
np
Why haven’t you done any JH audio IEM videos?
i have
@@Sharur1 oh
It's like 6am EST, you ok? I'm awake because I'm sick.
ye
Same here , fucking Couf got me 🤧
@@carminedesanto6746 don't die
@@joko49perez feeling better..however my wife is testing positive…so there’s that 🤧
My head cleared enough to actually listen to music last night while in bed ( Amazon music HD, IFI Go Blue and S12’s ) …and it was damn nice 😊
@@carminedesanto6746 my entire family tested positive, lmao
I think Floyd Toole is active on ASR so we can ask him directly about this
don't need to
@@Sharur1 cuz you're afraid of being wrong?
You deleted my comments when i suggest people should ask Mr. Toole directly on ASR anyway
@@ericfernando4296 because this is information literally from his book
@@ericfernando4296 Stop assuming I am deleting your comments. I never delete comments.
thank u for the knowledge mr. sharur!
np
Your old voice was better tbf. The timbre is off now.
lol it will be back next vid
Lol
yea
That's why I am not keen about speakers. There are many 'unwanted' sound. IEMs are way better than speakers. IMHO.
Thank you.
@Exit The Maze By Flying East into the SUNrise
Yes. I am among the people who still listen to AM and SW radio broadcast station. Yes, it is lo-fi with lots of noise, but, our brain's 'DSP' able to make listening enjoyable. :)
For hifi, IEMs are all the way.
Thank you.
Nah speakers just sound way better because they actually have soundstage. Sounds just are way more realistic with speakers because they translate instruments the same way they would sound in reality or do you think instruments are meant to be heared directly inside your ear? lol
Speakers are better than IEMS. Sharur and his idiot of a fan base worship FR graphs without knowing that Harman Curve is actually based on the frequency majority of people wants to hear on speakers, not IEM. So IEMs are simply trying to achieve what speakers can already achieve perfectly.
IEMs are plague with unwanted sound whereas this is rarer in speakers. A decent speaker can handle levels of EQ that is simply not possible in an IEM.
Room Treatment only matter if you are recording instruments.
@@ryuixyui I will correct your last sentence. Room treatment matters if you would like to eliminate reverb in your room and for speakers treating speakers with problems in their horizontal or vertical plane.
@@abielpangga6314 And when it comes to room treatment this is more or less a preference thing if you are not intending to produce music but just listen to it. I personally for example prefer some amount of reverb in the room because I think it makes the music sound more alive.
1st again!
nice!