Don't hate. CREATE. That's how we take the medium back. Sure your favorite show/comic/movie sucks...are ya gonna cry about it? Or are ya gonna DO something about it?
Just keep grinding, the quality will rise to relevance. The political shit will be a crutch to be discarded once this big cultural shift that has been a long time coming finally comes. The people that care about politics will care about politics, the people that care about comics\art will care about that, let the cards fall where they will. There is change on the horizon, its been a slow burn but with the massive boom that Isom brought I think things are finally kicking into high gear. The audience is here, the passion is here, it just looks less impactful because we're fighting from the underdog position against monopolies. But every day we get stronger and they get weaker.
Jonathan Pagaeu of Godsdog is a similar case as Eric July. People who have a foot in the pop culture space but are big enough commentators and experts in their own right to media affiliates and platformed on the largest channels and podcasts in the world. They basically are writing their own checks with their offerings.
While fully understanding the Iron Age philosophy I believe it was Joe Fulton who coined the phrase "Phoenix Age" to describe the CG era of comics. I find this to be a more appropriate term. Phoenix Age rising!
Sounds fun but not a good idea. That goes against the whole idea of Iron Age. That is scarier than what we have now in the west with mainstream comics. That we would not only centralize all these titles but Jam them into a single publication, is putting the reader at the mercy of a publisher all over again. This time you can't skip Mrs. Marvel because it comes with the book!
The problem with most of these crowd funded comics is they are just random books. Someone will make a book that’s a little bigger than a normal comic but smaller than your average graphic novel. Most of these books are written by people who just want to make a comic here and there and don’t have much experience. They don’t have plans to create a new line. We need people to make good stories not something to make them some side money.
Exactly what Ethan Van Sciver has been saying lately. Most of these people aren't interested in the artistry and storytelling of comics; they just see them as merchandise.
@@KamikazeChinaman it’s funny that a year ago I was supporting Eric July and just a month ago started strongly supporting EVS because he started exposing Eric about things I knew nothing about and was talking about what I was warning about a year ago. I gave Eric a chance because I thought there was a chance he might actually be different. Nope he’s worse, because he’s figured out a way to take all the bad things about crowdfunding comics and put out more with less quality and no soul.
Comicsgate is more about creators making small, tight knit fanbases. I think that right now, the public is not ready for another worldwide franchise/brand. I think everyone has other things on their mind than what to give their money too. The big company's are focused on "progressive" messaging. Comics were a slow build to begin with. They have lost their popularity and relevance in the culture. It's going to be a slow build to reinvigorate them
I look to the Asian and French markets to see what might be. It may take generations to build up what they've been able to maintain, and what Marvel and DC squandered.
One must revere that this current state is an on-going thing from the advent of MAD Magazine and Heavy Metal the censorship imposed was but merely back burnered as the then "Big 2" stepped up to what was popular, as they are now complicit. The early days in clouded MAD, Heavy Metal, Dungeons and Dragons, and music of which became a heavy focused lean and was also largely controlled by corporate interests as POP still is a corporate machine. Politicians were prominent in the 1980s on musical censorship Tipper Gore vs the Shock Rockers/Heavy Metal musician band W.A.S.P. to be one of the prominent, legal actions on others (Ozzy Osbourne, Judas Priest, etc...), etc...
The 1960s into 1970s musicians struck out making their own labels, until pseudo cooperative efforts from corporations (easy money), until a revival in the 1980s only to fall back in until Metallica after they struck it big into now. That current state of it is where the rub is..
It's the algorithm. Culture critique and clickbait gets views. As woke as these companies may be they know views make them money and will happily haters monetize their haters. The problem is fundamentally with the fact that there is a political economy that dictates prices and what counts as claim. This problem doesn't go away by playing their game because it's much more fundamental than companies making bad products.
Marketing. That’s all that this is about. You have to market yourself. Cultural critique is an easy way to build an audience, but not the only way. Do you not think that TMNT and Harry Potter marketed themselves?
I think, I hope, that we are at the start of a transition, where people like Gary @ Nerdrotic are going to start paying more and more attention to Creator Owned Comics. Actually? The model for that - criticism & promotion - is and always has been Ethan Van Sciver. There's another possibility, too, that we might not live to see the fruits of our labors, that our stories won't go gigantic ’til after we're gone. But I don't think Tolkien or Robert E. Howard or WHOEVER had any idea their stories would become so huge. Ultimately we will win because we, like those guys, actually care about what we're creating.
I would say that if Gary, who constantly bewails the entertainment industry, doesn't direct people to e.g. Ethan Van Sciver, he's a disingenuous clout. And Az, Heel vs Babyface, refused to show Ethans action figures because of the slightest of slights not even directed at him. What a false hypocrite! Addendum: Viewers of Nerdrotic and Heels could remind those channels to promote independents like Comicsgaters every now and then.
PROMOTION PROMOTION PROMOTION! if someone has the drive to take the mantel of PROMOTER the market is blue in CG! since many creators dont have time to do it, an "agent" of sorts could be the solution for them, say a Tonpa for hire
That's the thing. Rippa IS his own agent. He's doing stuff behind the scenes writing/planning/etc but he isn't the artist/inker/colorist. His time is more free to be the marketing team. You have to make it happen, you can't just post it out and hope it works out. Not only that he's unafraid to go anywhere he needs to for promotion.
Me either. I was unsubscribed from his channel, and Twitter had me unfollowed. In fact, they would've even suggest his account to me. I had to find a tweet of other people replying to him to find it to refollow. The Iron Age can't come soon enough!
There is another question, that nobody seems to ask: Is there really enough demand for these Alternatives? I am not really sure that the wider public, which has to come on board to make a franchise successful, has enough interest. They seem to be rather "Meh". And if I look at the numbers, it is quite possible that the complete "Comic Gate" is itself a self-contained bubble.
Well, the highest backer projects are at 40k (Rippaverse) and then EVS's 10-12k. Those numbers are quite small even in today's market, not to mention compared to something like the 90's comic book era where single issues could sell a million copies. With 20-30k orders you don't even make it to the top 100 mainstream comics. DC just recently cancelled a Robin comic that had something like 10-20k orders at issue #17. Then added to that the fact that these projects seem to be quite limited in that for example the Rippaverse kickstarter/indiegogo/whatever project is only for the first issue and was around 30-35 bucks which is ridiculously overpriced for a single issue, even with 90 pages (they sold those thick 65-page Marvel comics in the turn of the millennium for 6 euros/6 bucks here in Finland and everything here is way more expensive in general compared to the US). Then added to that EVS apparently hasn't fulfilled most of the kickstarter campaigns even after 3 years and reading the comments people are not happy. The (over)price and the release schedule (if you can even call it that) alone will never make these comics take off in any way, shape or form that would rival even the currently staggering Marvel/DC. There is oversaturation of mediocre comics in the market with a lot of other, more popular timesinks fighting for people's time and money (games, movies, streaming TV). Comic books might not be a dying medium but it is definitely winding down and it's not because of "wokeism" - at least not because of it alone. It's been going down steadily for the past 20 years and can be directly mirrored with the rise of video games etc.
I don't think that it's about becoming as big as what the mainstream produces. It's about cultivating a niche audience that allows you to create. New markets take years to establish and even longer to gain influence.
That's what I'm focusing on. I'm finding it does require me to become a 'CZcamsr' to build that niche audience. That works for me, but not for everyone, some of whom are very talented creators.
@@Michael_Bancroft It's part luck, part drive, and all market. The thing to remember is to be your own unique brand. Don't try to repeat someone else's success.
If you're hearing about it now, ya ten years too late to the party lol. Conversely do you need to go CG/Alt Economy route? Alterna publishes small Indie works and there's a few webtoon platforms too. I would argue that if you want to catch new (young) readers write/draw to their taste. What's an average age of a CG-er? Face it, it's not only a skill thing or an audience size thing, it's also target demographics. Ya Boi Zak often said it's middle age dentists - small pool, imo. Looking at the Tracker you've shown, it's kinda clear that the top spots are filled.. Of course you need to somewhat adapt to trends but you don't have to commit fully to an ideology. Which brings me to my final point: what is Iron Age Media? Or what should it be? A business? An ideology? A platform? A collective? An infrastructure/ecosystem? Could it be an economy in itself? Unless it decouples itself from the "anit-woke/anti mainstream" label, it sounds like a trend. When Marvel/DC/Hollywood changes its course, the (anti/alt) wont be topical anymore. Then what? For what it's worth, I only clicked your vid because you mentioned Iron Age Media, and not the typical "Lookit the lolcow pop-culture critique" angle. That stuff is beginning to fizzle. I needed to unsubscribe to some of the channels bc my front page would be a pastiche of critiquing the current thing, and nothing else... Anyway, that's just one guy's opinion. One last thing! It just straight up takes too long to receive a creator backed comic. I understand why, but that's not rly a functioning business model: "Listen to me complain, btw here's my new comic, you'll be able to read it in two to three years." Bruh... (Rippa being the exception here.)
Thanks for watching. I guess my interpretation of what he means by Iron Age is fully self made, without corporate help. I also understand that the crowdfund model isn’t for everyone. Have you checked out cgnow.net though?
@@KamikazeChinaman CG is Comic book specific, and is at its core an anti-SJW movement. My understanding is that Iron Age is any medium of entertainment, comics, books, music, games etc, and the differentiating factor is the direct to customer focus, cutting out middle-men and gatekeepers. I don't think it's as much as providing an alternative to woke stuff.
Since you asked, I think it's a multi-pronged strategy. There is a huge market for "the-current-thing-is-crap" coupled with the disdain for "if you don't like our mainstream garbage you're a bigot" so if you want to incorporate that into your marketing strategy while also saying "here's a thing I'm creating, I'm working really hard on it and I hope you like it" then that has proven to be a successful strategy. Either way you need to get some eyes on your project otherwise nobody is going to buy a thing they can't see. When are you guys coming to Japan so I can look you in the eyes while I fold to BWat's obvious bluff?
@@Michael_Bancroft Except when he's obviously not. I'm so hungry for a game rn that I will still call to see despite knowing better... Nice to see you still grinding it out whatever the table. I remember when your sub count didn't have a decimal point :) Cannot losing!
While I agree the culture war against Hollywoke and mainstream comics is justified, I don't see myself trying to start a CZcams channel focused on these topics just to sell the book I'm working on.
I don't think it's feasible or even desirable that every single indie creator builds up their own CZcams channel, but that doesn't change the fact that very few creators make any kind of impact on the scene without one. It's going to take a LONG time to build up the scene to the point where creators can get by just on their books alone. And even then, it'll be a crazy competitive environment. Already is, actually.
You should NOT talk about the mainstream content , what you have to do is to Copy the look of mainstream properties as marketing tactic. The Fast way to get attention when you are new is to Plagiarize the mainstream but change it enough things of it so you still can call it your own product. When you do that you are placing a little bug inside people's head telling them to check it, doesn't matter that they realize that is a knock-off, they will feel the impulse to see what is about. Don't be shy, promote yourself in the same places as the mainstream and Bait everyone into thinking is the same. Even if the Bait annoys people you already got your objective when they check it. The only wrong marketing tactic is to not get exposure at all.
As much as I like Razörfist, calling it the "Iron Age" is premature. We don't get to name the era in which we live. That's like inventing your own nickname. We might have internet names, but you can tell when someone's trying to hard to look cool. Just ask ChadNinja1337. 🤣
Bancroft continues swimming in shittywebcomics' wake here. If you really want to know what's going on you should've been listening to shittywebcomics years ago, it's where everyone here got their opinions about comics.
I don't really want to be famous, I just wanna pay my bills while drawing space romans
Don't hate. CREATE. That's how we take the medium back. Sure your favorite show/comic/movie sucks...are ya gonna cry about it? Or are ya gonna DO something about it?
Just keep grinding, the quality will rise to relevance. The political shit will be a crutch to be discarded once this big cultural shift that has been a long time coming finally comes. The people that care about politics will care about politics, the people that care about comics\art will care about that, let the cards fall where they will.
There is change on the horizon, its been a slow burn but with the massive boom that Isom brought I think things are finally kicking into high gear.
The audience is here, the passion is here, it just looks less impactful because we're fighting from the underdog position against monopolies. But every day we get stronger and they get weaker.
Jonathan Pagaeu of Godsdog is a similar case as Eric July. People who have a foot in the pop culture space but are big enough commentators and experts in their own right to media affiliates and platformed on the largest channels and podcasts in the world. They basically are writing their own checks with their offerings.
While fully understanding the Iron Age philosophy I believe it was Joe Fulton who coined the phrase "Phoenix Age" to describe the CG era of comics. I find this to be a more appropriate term. Phoenix Age rising!
You need a "shonnen jump, only one comic book with various authors. Because is very hard to track various publications.
Sounds fun but not a good idea. That goes against the whole idea of Iron Age. That is scarier than what we have now in the west with mainstream comics. That we would not only centralize all these titles but Jam them into a single publication, is putting the reader at the mercy of a publisher all over again. This time you can't skip Mrs. Marvel because it comes with the book!
The problem with most of these crowd funded comics is they are just random books. Someone will make a book that’s a little bigger than a normal comic but smaller than your average graphic novel. Most of these books are written by people who just want to make a comic here and there and don’t have much experience. They don’t have plans to create a new line. We need people to make good stories not something to make them some side money.
Fair point
Exactly what Ethan Van Sciver has been saying lately. Most of these people aren't interested in the artistry and storytelling of comics; they just see them as merchandise.
@@KamikazeChinaman it’s funny that a year ago I was supporting Eric July and just a month ago started strongly supporting EVS because he started exposing Eric about things I knew nothing about and was talking about what I was warning about a year ago. I gave Eric a chance because I thought there was a chance he might actually be different. Nope he’s worse, because he’s figured out a way to take all the bad things about crowdfunding comics and put out more with less quality and no soul.
Comicsgate is more about creators making small, tight knit fanbases. I think that right now, the public is not ready for another worldwide franchise/brand. I think everyone has other things on their mind than what to give their money too. The big company's are focused on "progressive" messaging. Comics were a slow build to begin with. They have lost their popularity and relevance in the culture. It's going to be a slow build to reinvigorate them
I look to the Asian and French markets to see what might be. It may take generations to build up what they've been able to maintain, and what Marvel and DC squandered.
One must revere that this current state is an on-going thing from the advent of MAD Magazine and Heavy Metal the censorship imposed was but merely back burnered as the then "Big 2" stepped up to what was popular, as they are now complicit. The early days in clouded MAD, Heavy Metal, Dungeons and Dragons, and music of which became a heavy focused lean and was also largely controlled by corporate interests as POP still is a corporate machine. Politicians were prominent in the 1980s on musical censorship Tipper Gore vs the Shock Rockers/Heavy Metal musician band W.A.S.P. to be one of the prominent, legal actions on others (Ozzy Osbourne, Judas Priest, etc...), etc...
The 1960s into 1970s musicians struck out making their own labels, until pseudo cooperative efforts from corporations (easy money), until a revival in the 1980s only to fall back in until Metallica after they struck it big into now. That current state of it is where the rub is..
It's the algorithm. Culture critique and clickbait gets views. As woke as these companies may be they know views make them money and will happily haters monetize their haters. The problem is fundamentally with the fact that there is a political economy that dictates prices and what counts as claim. This problem doesn't go away by playing their game because it's much more fundamental than companies making bad products.
Food for thought. Was thinking of making a book, had no idea the workings of it all though. Thanks mate.
Lesser known? That's always true in every form of creative marketplace.
Marketing. That’s all that this is about. You have to market yourself. Cultural critique is an easy way to build an audience, but not the only way. Do you not think that TMNT and Harry Potter marketed themselves?
I think, I hope, that we are at the start of a transition, where people like Gary @ Nerdrotic are going to start paying more and more attention to Creator Owned Comics. Actually? The model for that - criticism & promotion - is and always has been Ethan Van Sciver. There's another possibility, too, that we might not live to see the fruits of our labors, that our stories won't go gigantic ’til after we're gone. But I don't think Tolkien or Robert E. Howard or WHOEVER had any idea their stories would become so huge. Ultimately we will win because we, like those guys, actually care about what we're creating.
I would say that if Gary, who constantly bewails the entertainment industry, doesn't direct people to e.g. Ethan Van Sciver, he's a disingenuous clout. And Az, Heel vs Babyface, refused to show Ethans action figures because of the slightest of slights not even directed at him. What a false hypocrite!
Addendum:
Viewers of Nerdrotic and Heels could remind those channels to promote independents like Comicsgaters every now and then.
@@bluegent7 Sigh and double sigh! The drama, the politics… they have undone many a good cause.
EVS is on their blacklist because of Az, the Snyder incident, and his tiff with Jeremy. They'll never acknowledge him.
@@bluegent7 Yea since EVS acts like a publisher for CC comics. He has a monopoly on CC promotion.
PROMOTION PROMOTION PROMOTION!
if someone has the drive to take the mantel of PROMOTER the market is blue in CG! since many creators dont have time to do it, an "agent" of sorts could be the solution for them, say a Tonpa for hire
That's the thing. Rippa IS his own agent. He's doing stuff behind the scenes writing/planning/etc but he isn't the artist/inker/colorist. His time is more free to be the marketing team. You have to make it happen, you can't just post it out and hope it works out.
Not only that he's unafraid to go anywhere he needs to for promotion.
I haven't been suggested any of his videos in forever.
Me either. I was unsubscribed from his channel, and Twitter had me unfollowed. In fact, they would've even suggest his account to me. I had to find a tweet of other people replying to him to find it to refollow. The Iron Age can't come soon enough!
@@Michael_Bancroft Agreed. This is all really exciting.
This was an incredibly good video.
thanks Clayton!
It saddens me not seeing Thomas Valiant anywhere on that tracker list.
I should've gone through the hassle that is ordering things from my country.
Yeah, not sure why that is. Surely just an oversight.
There is another question, that nobody seems to ask: Is there really enough demand for these Alternatives?
I am not really sure that the wider public, which has to come on board to make a franchise successful, has enough interest. They seem to be rather "Meh".
And if I look at the numbers, it is quite possible that the complete "Comic Gate" is itself a self-contained bubble.
Well, the highest backer projects are at 40k (Rippaverse) and then EVS's 10-12k. Those numbers are quite small even in today's market, not to mention compared to something like the 90's comic book era where single issues could sell a million copies. With 20-30k orders you don't even make it to the top 100 mainstream comics. DC just recently cancelled a Robin comic that had something like 10-20k orders at issue #17.
Then added to that the fact that these projects seem to be quite limited in that for example the Rippaverse kickstarter/indiegogo/whatever project is only for the first issue and was around 30-35 bucks which is ridiculously overpriced for a single issue, even with 90 pages (they sold those thick 65-page Marvel comics in the turn of the millennium for 6 euros/6 bucks here in Finland and everything here is way more expensive in general compared to the US). Then added to that EVS apparently hasn't fulfilled most of the kickstarter campaigns even after 3 years and reading the comments people are not happy.
The (over)price and the release schedule (if you can even call it that) alone will never make these comics take off in any way, shape or form that would rival even the currently staggering Marvel/DC. There is oversaturation of mediocre comics in the market with a lot of other, more popular timesinks fighting for people's time and money (games, movies, streaming TV). Comic books might not be a dying medium but it is definitely winding down and it's not because of "wokeism" - at least not because of it alone. It's been going down steadily for the past 20 years and can be directly mirrored with the rise of video games etc.
@@HenkkaArtGames heading towards 3 million not 40k.
I don't think that it's about becoming as big as what the mainstream produces. It's about cultivating a niche audience that allows you to create. New markets take years to establish and even longer to gain influence.
That's what I'm focusing on. I'm finding it does require me to become a 'CZcamsr' to build that niche audience. That works for me, but not for everyone, some of whom are very talented creators.
@@Michael_Bancroft It's part luck, part drive, and all market. The thing to remember is to be your own unique brand. Don't try to repeat someone else's success.
If you're hearing about it now, ya ten years too late to the party lol.
Conversely do you need to go CG/Alt Economy route? Alterna publishes small Indie works and there's a few webtoon platforms too. I would argue that if you want to catch new (young) readers write/draw to their taste. What's an average age of a CG-er? Face it, it's not only a skill thing or an audience size thing, it's also target demographics. Ya Boi Zak often said it's middle age dentists - small pool, imo.
Looking at the Tracker you've shown, it's kinda clear that the top spots are filled.. Of course you need to somewhat adapt to trends but you don't have to commit fully to an ideology.
Which brings me to my final point: what is Iron Age Media? Or what should it be?
A business? An ideology? A platform? A collective? An infrastructure/ecosystem? Could it be an economy in itself?
Unless it decouples itself from the "anit-woke/anti mainstream" label, it sounds like a trend.
When Marvel/DC/Hollywood changes its course, the (anti/alt) wont be topical anymore. Then what?
For what it's worth, I only clicked your vid because you mentioned Iron Age Media, and not the typical "Lookit the lolcow pop-culture critique" angle.
That stuff is beginning to fizzle. I needed to unsubscribe to some of the channels bc my front page would be a pastiche of critiquing the current thing, and nothing else...
Anyway, that's just one guy's opinion.
One last thing! It just straight up takes too long to receive a creator backed comic. I understand why, but that's not rly a functioning business model: "Listen to me complain, btw here's my new comic, you'll be able to read it in two to three years." Bruh... (Rippa being the exception here.)
Thanks for watching. I guess my interpretation of what he means by Iron Age is fully self made, without corporate help. I also understand that the crowdfund model isn’t for everyone. Have you checked out cgnow.net though?
@@Michael_Bancroft Thanks for the reply. Great site!
@@Michael_Bancroft What makes Iron Age different from CG or indepentent art and entertainment in general?
@@KamikazeChinaman CG is Comic book specific, and is at its core an anti-SJW movement. My understanding is that Iron Age is any medium of entertainment, comics, books, music, games etc, and the differentiating factor is the direct to customer focus, cutting out middle-men and gatekeepers. I don't think it's as much as providing an alternative to woke stuff.
Razorfist talks like he's down on a stadium, trying to convince the guys in the farthest seats.
Since you asked, I think it's a multi-pronged strategy.
There is a huge market for "the-current-thing-is-crap" coupled with the disdain for "if you don't like our mainstream garbage you're a bigot" so if you want to incorporate that into your marketing strategy while also saying "here's a thing I'm creating, I'm working really hard on it and I hope you like it" then that has proven to be a successful strategy. Either way you need to get some eyes on your project otherwise nobody is going to buy a thing they can't see.
When are you guys coming to Japan so I can look you in the eyes while I fold to BWat's obvious bluff?
Lol, BWhat’s always bluffing!
@@Michael_Bancroft Except when he's obviously not. I'm so hungry for a game rn that I will still call to see despite knowing better...
Nice to see you still grinding it out whatever the table. I remember when your sub count didn't have a decimal point :)
Cannot losing!
While I agree the culture war against Hollywoke and mainstream comics is justified, I don't see myself trying to start a CZcams channel focused on these topics just to sell the book I'm working on.
I don't think it's feasible or even desirable that every single indie creator builds up their own CZcams channel, but that doesn't change the fact that very few creators make any kind of impact on the scene without one. It's going to take a LONG time to build up the scene to the point where creators can get by just on their books alone. And even then, it'll be a crazy competitive environment. Already is, actually.
You should NOT talk about the mainstream content , what you have to do is to Copy the look of mainstream properties as marketing tactic.
The Fast way to get attention when you are new is to Plagiarize the mainstream but change it enough things of it so you still can call it your own product.
When you do that you are placing a little bug inside people's head telling them to check it, doesn't matter that they realize that is a knock-off, they will feel the impulse to see what is about.
Don't be shy, promote yourself in the same places as the mainstream and Bait everyone into thinking is the same. Even if the Bait annoys people you already got your objective when they check it.
The only wrong marketing tactic is to not get exposure at all.
Kiwi?
As much as I like Razörfist, calling it the "Iron Age" is premature. We don't get to name the era in which we live. That's like inventing your own nickname. We might have internet names, but you can tell when someone's trying to hard to look cool. Just ask ChadNinja1337. 🤣
On the flipside, having a slogan or name to rally behind helps solidify the idea.
Bancroft continues swimming in shittywebcomics' wake here. If you really want to know what's going on you should've been listening to shittywebcomics years ago, it's where everyone here got their opinions about comics.
The Iron Age was doomed to fail. Who's talking about it now? No one.
dollarstore spoony... at least spoony was funny